Focusing on the anniversary of the creation of Southern Railway 100 years ago.
The talk will focus on the anniversary of the creation of Southern Railway 100 years a go last year and explore why it happened and was it the right thing to happen.
We will look at how it effected the Bluebell Railway and other local railway line. Particularly it will examine the vital role that electrical engineering played in the success of Southern Railway.
Now um I had a nice piece of paper in my back pocket which actually reminded me to uh to say a little bit about um Malcolm to introduce this talk and what I’m going to say it I’ve got speak from memory now but anyway he’s the curator as it says I believe here
Curator of the Blue Bell Railway Museum but that’s not all he has a house which is actually on the Old Railway line which goes south of the blue of the Bluebell line and he’s got two Platforms in that gu but he’s conflicted because they’ve been talking about extending the Bluebell Railway
Down for 20 years I gather and he’s conflicted do you want a railway station in your back Garden anyway anyway told me the name of the station I’ll ask him to remind you of what the name of the station is it’s new and CH
Okay so there it is so with that I hand over gladly to Malcolm Johnson thank you well hello everybody uh welcome glad to see you here this evening I’m going to take us on a journey a railway Journey Through Time now I’m going to do the driving but I need a few
Other people to help me you can’t run a railway with just one person driving a train so the first person I’m looking for is a guard have we got a willing guard here no then I’ll do what we do in the railway I say you going be the guard so
You’re the guard there was a problem front yeah that’s a problem but you’re not safe at the back either no you don’t look quite right no no you you can rest don’t worry but that’s not enough you better to have a whistle as wellist yeah I’ve got lots of
Artifacts that’s what they call them in museums um no you’re still not right you might know the time were you well you’re getting better you’re getting better now I’m also going to need someone else and I’m electing to ask my wife to do this she can be the signal
Man if I if I use an acronym without explaining it if I use any any any piece of jargon just stop the train they flag out like that down like that we keep going so we’re nearly there oh God you’re not right yet you you didn’t bring any equipment you better have a
Lamp oh Cy be careful that’s very old well we’re getting there aren’t we I need one more person who who I’m sure will volunteer themselves very quickly um to be a ticket office clar do is that your job on the rail well you know what that’s we we do that yes
But oh you a blue really good well you recognize these ticket I’ve seen a few of those no I don’t recognize these These are ones AR very ancient yeah um if you do sell a ticket you might not get any turn up but that is a railway ticket to travel isn’t
It Two Three Bridges to come for this evening’s event Three Bridges yes and issue by forces HMS HMS forces yeah so don’t forget to date stamp it yeah okay oh hang about there’s you people at the back up in there Cy you thought you were safe didn’t you I need a distant
Outlook someone who’s going to wave the flag should a train come crashing down the line thank you sir just wave it viciously shout like mad and I’ll be off I haven’t given instructions to the guard right when I say I’m ready to start this means the signal is down in
My favor got a token all you have to do is wave that yellow yellow got a green flag above your head blow the whistle and Shout out right away then I can start are we getting in mood right away right away no not yet in a minute oh yes I’m Malcolm Johnson yck
And Shay blue Bill Railway just met somebody over there who uh booking off his clar who actually works at the railway is it I do yeah volunteer yeah volunteer there like rest of us about a thousand of us isn’t there uh yes I would imagine there are especially Christmas
Um so uh nearly ready to go who has not been to the Bloomville Railway you’ve all been there fantastic have you all visited the museum mostly right okay make sure you go to the museum next time the at the railway that saved about 10 minutes of the talk
I haven’t got to explain what the Blue Bell Railway is now I just gave out a ticket for issue and there you see it it’s a ticket don’t see those today do you much get it on your phone or you print a QR code at home rarely see a ticket that’s
What’s known as an edmenton ticket you can see it’s a real thing it’s to it’s to come to Three Bridges um bit l in using it because it’s clearly a wartime one for Southern Railway um from any station you just write in what it is and you can travel first class for an
Officer as well so that’s uh this back on so yes so so an officer it’s an Edmonson ticket Thomas Edmonson invented it you wouldn’t think somebody would have to invent the ticket would you well they did because before he came up with this this idea you got gr pen out
And then wrote away a permit to travel for the customer then he write it again because he have to keep it to do the books in the evening then he have to write in The Ledger that he’s taking the money and if you’re going on to another line say not Southern Railway onto
Somebody else of those days it would been great great a northern Railway he worked for on another Railway he’d have to put it again into another ledger so they could pay the other company he came up the simple idea you print the ticket you have a number on the ticket you know
What the number of the ticket was at that price at the start of the day you know it was at the end take them away take one off that’s your number of tickets youve sold ready reckon up you know your price of ticket Bluebell Railway I’ll be supporting this we still use Edmundson
Tickets today and we still use the original presses to print them so just to explain that little thing yeah I’m I’m I’m not a I’m a fraud I’m not a real cator I’m not a museum professional I’m an electrical engineer and that’s what we used to call ourselves anyway I’m an electrical
Engineer I’m not a historian or anything like that uh I’m just a straightforward um engineer who likes being a Creator I get to play with a different sort of Technology now anybody recognize what that locco is flying SC Flying Scotsman I heard Flying Scotsman apparently the most famous locomotive in the
World that’s shot taken at the Blue Bell last August did any of you see the Flying Scotsman last August on it you on it yeah you were smiling the whole time aren’t you yeah yeah yeah people people come in their thousands tens of thousands they jump for joy when they
See this locomotive it’s incredible the effect it has you wouldn’t need the National Health Service if you had a plenty of flying Scots people will be so happy why is it famous that’s the subject of a totally different talk now I’ve got different views you
See because I I think I think this is the most famous locomotive in the world uh I’m not going to ask you to guess what its name is it’s Stephanie it’s it’s in Steamworks part of our museum at sheff Park um I think it’s the most famous locomotive in the world
Because anyone who’s under 60 surely surely read the Thomas the Tank Engine books yeah or in later years they would have seen the cartoons Etc so nearly everybody under 60 knows it and Stephanie most famous local in the world I think people come from all over the
World to see stepanie last summer at a Japanese gentleman comes into the museum looking very worried he speaks three words of English where is stepanie worried don’t worry I say I’ll take you to Stephany big smile delighted people love Stephany most photograph locomotive definitely in the world with people next
To it saying I I hate to break this to you but this is the best friend of Thomas the Tank Engine you cannot go and see Thomas he’s not real honest but steeply is yeah so best friend of Thomas now you’ve been to the museum
Quite a few of you you notice what what you see you walk through the 1882 walk um waiting room doors you come into the museum on the left there’s a booking office turn right into a large Modern Museum and if you haven’t been there that’s what’s going to greet you if you
Go through it right out to the other end there’s a 1866 signal box where you can learn to be a signalman and learn everything about signaling I boast that I can teach nearly everybody there’s some exceptions to be a signalman in two minutes and to their amazement they do
It just two minutes if you don’t believe me turn up and find out now this is what I’m supposed to be talking talking about well I I do have the signal with my favor God and I do have a token God I’m just waiting for the right of way God right
Away right away shout right away I’ll do it right away okay yeah you can’t get the staff anymore I’m afid that’s terrible yeah okay here this is the subject I’m there at last 1923 to 1947 Southern Railway 100 100 years since it was created so what so what’s so special
About this well it was created by government by actual Parliament and it was finished by an act of Parliament that makes it quite unusual it wasn’t someone thinking up the commercial Enterprise what’s very special is this is probably the only raway in the country that has made a profit
Throughout nearly all the time a significant profit and was successful the customers were satisfied would you love to see a railway like that today and uh and just to explain in case you haven’t realized that isn’t the Southern Railway that’s around today where you go and pay a fortune to get your ticket
Because you don’t get a ticket anymore to get to get something turn up on your phone so you go to travel this is a different Southern Railway 23 to 47 I call it the Romantic age of Railways now you hear people talking about the Golden Age of Railways I don’t
Think there ever was a golden age of Railways it’s always has been a hard hard Grind from the very beginning we’ll find out where that is to today it’s a hard grind but I see this as a romantic age of it’s the the news reals of the
Period we’ve all seen them the many movies made about it here’s Brief Encounters no coward that the the play and the film gives us that image of when Railway was so close to everything we were doing in life and people actually identified with it so the Romantic AG of Railways 100
Years it was created but why I’m afraid you got to go right back to the beginning to answer that question when I say back to the beginning it says 1600 but historians tell us that the ancient Greeks the ancient Romans even the early Chinese civilizations had
Railways and if you think about it when the first person and invented the will and they thought they cracked it and the Roes were keep them Rich for the rest of their life they then tried to move it along and discovered that the ground wasn’t smooth it was bumpy it was
Damp it was soft and it didn’t work to well now they didn’t worry a lot of people but it certainly worried people had to carry heavy loads people in Minds who wanted to get things out so you can guess it wasn’t long before they came up with something rather like this just
Bits of tree laid down to roll the roll it along that soon passed along and they laid down wooden planks and then eventually cast iron planks and we started to get to toward the railways of today now when did that happen well we know at the end of the
16th century our government was getting concerned about the fact that that the things that were being mined in the ground car IR or Etc was not easily moved across the country yes they could have a railway from the pit from the pit face to the pit head but when they wanted to
Roll it out to get to the nearly nearest M there’d be a problem because the land owners certainly didn’t want a railway Crossing across their land so they wouldn’t let them it’s just the same today isn’t it you think about highp speed to nobody wants the railway so
They couldn’t do it so the government they were quite good governments in those days um decided to generate an act of Parliament that would enable anybody who went to Parliament with a bill to open a railway if they got consent they get really really powerful uh uh uh means
Their disposal to get that Railway completed compulsory purchase right to stop people crossing the railway incredible that started things going that act pilot was 16004 the first Railway across land a private Railway across land 16004 a long time ago um needless to say it wasn’t Paul by steam
Locomotive let’s go back to that one 1803 the world’s first public Freight Railway 200 years to get to that to a public Railway um and it was like here that’s a a painting that you can see in our Museum it was painted in 1823 and it shows a public rway you
Would take your cart with your load to the railway station pull it onto the track and then one horse would pull a whole load here we see the horse good old horse there pulling five love to C looks hard work there’s reports that they P play that they poured um as much
As uh 12 or 14 carts along the track by one horse while we talking about horses often neglected when we talk about Railways everyone rushes to a steam Railway think about the horse interesting fact here when British Railways was created in 194 they inherited from the railways of the day more horses than
Locomotives yeah more horses than locomotive that was 48 but then do you know you probably know this but the last steam engine was retired off of British Railways in 1968 the last horse was retired in 1967 less than a year before the horse nearly outlived the steam you yeah the
Hawks paid a huge weight part in Railways and we’ll go we’ll go on to that uh and who knows they might do again if we have to get to rid of coal and got no oil supplies and everything else who knows but there we go so that’s
It you can see that in the museum this m um the railway I’m talking about is not far from here it’s a s iron Railway it went from wesworth bent where the the boats were come in and it was built all the way through cyon down to
Godstone and it was iron Railway first public Railway in the world and if you look at it you’ll see that if you wanted to transport a ton of dun which you might want to I don’t know then you’d have to pay a penny a mile to do it coal
Three pennies a mile car was a lot heavier so it would this is the public by way now you you you saw the the cast IR rail I done that yet I haven’t it’s come on to if you look here this is what it looks like cast iron rail Stone sleepers built to
Last well up to a point but you can see that again you can see that in our Museum um they thought that the steam locomotive would never catch on the horse was the best means of doing it and then 1842 London Brighton Railway opened up with a steam Railway
They and they closed three years later they were broke gone nobody do it and they did ask George Stevenson and the man I mentioned a number of times this evening they did ask George Stevenson if he would convert their Railway to a steam Railway and he said words to this
Effect you’re having a laugh boy uh put a steam locomotive on that they’ll just crack they’re cast IR they cannot take the weight so that was the end of the Railway so 1803 1804 we get the first public Railway 1825 and no 1825 1825 we had the first passenger
Railway and first public steam Railway that’s next year 200 years next year 200 years to the first passenger Railway and the first public steam Railway it’s going to be great celebrations throughout the nation but a shadow down I think the rest of the world we just ignore the fact that we’re
Going to celebrate it like mad but then we have to sort of stop and think perhaps I’ll be doing the right thing in celebrating it I’ll come to that so that was that it was Stockton Darlington Stockton Darlington and it was built as a freight roundway to move coal from up near um
Just just north of Darlington down through just Dr on where it could be put on a ship and transported that’s what it’s for but some bright Spar says well why don’t we move passengers as well well seems a good idea you got the railway there and it opened this is the
Line of it shieldon where the National Railway Museum has their their Museum today Darlington Stockton and there’s the mine and you have to get the coal out to there if I tell you once they’ve opened the the the railway the price of coal in Stockton dropped by
2/3 that’s the cost of to move that across land dropped by 2/3 the huge difference it made having the railway was phenomenal absolutely phenomenal the first locomotive that pulled a load on that Railway was that one there Locomotion one that was his name Locomotion run and it’s the first
Locomotive that ped um a a freight train train as it was the initial on to freight trains on a railway no more horses we had a Lo Locomotion one it’s got that claim to fame it’s also the first locomotive that went into preservation this was state-of-the-art technology at
1823 by 1830 it was old had it was soon retired pushed into the corner of the shed the people who built it felt very affectionate about it they kept it there they didn’t scrap it they kept it there then when it got to about 1840 they
Thought would it be a good idea to restore this locomotive so it could run and they restored it to its original condition and they got it running this photo wasn’t taken in 1825 it was taken in 1925 celebrating a 100 Years of the Thon dingon Railway 100 years there they
Are going mad you can still see that Lo that locomotive today if you go to sh it’s still there it doesn’t run anymore but it’s still there so perhaps this is the most famous locomotive in the world not the Flying Scotsman I’ll pass no judgment i’ got to say just the temp of
The celebrations of next year that the first passenger services that were pulled on that Railway were pulled by horse horse you couldn’t expect people to travel at a startling 20 M hour could you they’d be terrified and all that nasty exhaust coming out of the locomotive no way The Locomotion one
Pulled the freight trains a horse pulled the passenger trains The Locomotion Locomotion one didn’t pull the passenger service to 1833 so 1930 and we get another huge step forward the first steam Hall passenger Railway into City living Beau to Manchester now who built that first the the Stockton ging Railway was George
Stevenson his name Heats cropping up fantastic engineer totally self-educated didn’t have the days of educ formal education in his life self-educated um so he he built that so when they wanted to build a Liverpool Manchester um Railway they went to George and he started to build it which
He did and he was very good at it gets TOs 1830 and they need a steam motive so they had the famous rain trials which you probably heard about and he son Robert entered a locomotive which was called Rocket and there was another I think it was five locomotives entered
Now the one that run won was rocket and it became famous because of that it won it won because it was the only one to finish the distance so there’s no competition really so it became the uh the first it had the best top of Technology around
The world that Robert went around and he found what was the best things happening at the time he poured them all into one locomotive and he produced something that was so different to L commotion that it was incredible a to no PR one a totally different animal that did
Perform that’s what it looked like guess where the first class uh compartments are is at the lower bit of course the front you got didn’t get a seat and you got an awful lot of exhaust throw falling on you so it was let loose the cat was out
Of the bag Railways was booming and they boomed 1830s 1840s there was massive uncontrolled expanion of Railways and I mean massive and it was uncontrolled government would not intervene government just allowed it to happen if you could get a bill through great you’ll get a railway you imagine what happened you
Got people building duplicate lines triplicate lines to to various between cities there’s only so many people want to travel only so much fight and it was being divided by two by three and the costs were multiplied by two or three they didn’t make money they got into huge financial
Difficulties where did they get the money from to BU build the railways mostly it was people with their life savings burning up and buying shares it was the in thing it was a modern thing the dot Revolution it was a DOT revolution of the day everyone wanted a
Bit of it so money was poured into it many lost their money many got no return from their money um and uh it was going no so there was a problem the government chose not to control the development of Railways in the country by 1850 just about every town
And every village had a railway and a railway station that just just a mere 25 years from the beginning in those 25 years they laid down 6,000 mil of track 6,000 mil of track that is 2/3 of the total Railway track that we have today in the
Country 2/3 of it was laid down in that period of time without the means that we have today I think that is quite staggering but it created its problems there’s a map quick look at the map there showing that already by 1850 there’s railway lines linking everywhere in the
Country then we move on 1897 the very last major Railway to be built for 100 years years to where the cross the channel tunnel rilway was built in 1997 100 years pass it was the last Railway to be built why nearly everywhere had a railway why build
Another one and the returns were minimal absolutely minimal I don’t know if you can see this it’s a bit small but this is the Great Central Railway this was the last Railway to be bu built before the Ctrl 18 97 um if you look at it we got leads up
There Manchester here um that’s uh what we got there we got Doncaster Grimsby coming down through lro Leicester down to London it looks remarkably like high speed 2 doesn’t it oh sorry high speed 1.4 there not not much left don’t what it be by the time it finishes so very
Similar this was 1997 unfortunately there’s a chat called Dr Beach and he closed it that wasn’t a sensible I think to do was it really we’re building it again now um this was the the last the only significant Railway that we’ve built since 1897 uh the cross Channel
Link any other major country in the world got an achievement as poor as that I don’t think so um this is what it looked like at the turn of the century 1900 that only main lines if you were to lay on top of that all the all the uh uh
The minor Railways the Spurs the links the branch lines it’ll be totally covered it was that a massive Al all’s going well is it comes to 1914 Railways are terribly run down uh been no not much money no money to arest in to invest in stock to invest in the
Track and it’s looking pretty grim and then we have a World War the nation depended on that Railway the government immediately took control of the railways they had to they had to force them to cooperate get them delivering now there was a few problems in doing
That but they got them to do they took control of the railways and um and and it worked did you I don’t you saw it but Michael Portillo did a series about the contribution of the railways of Britain to the victory of World War I very good
Serious it was indeed uh he went as far as saying that you know that we probably wouldn’t have won that war without the the RO of the railways but imagine what was happening already run down then the rils happened to be worked even harder to deliver the war eff ammunitions supplies
Had to get across the English Channel so they’re working even harder to make it worse materials were hard to come by to make it worse most of the men who were working on the railway was sent off to the trenches to work the good news was
That the women were p in to do it it was good news because you you could pay them a third of the salary of man so your cost went down so one bit of good news for the railways they were paying less for the labor now I’d like to show you here a
Lovely photograph of what the railways look like during World War One they were a Defense Zone Railways just like government buildings if you took a photograph you likely to be arrested as a tracer put up against a w and shot so there’s very few photographs
Of that period so I thought I’d do the the next best thing and show you a uh a locomotive that went to war this locomotive actually went to North France to take part in in the first World War um so you think it must be a pretty good
Locomotive this is a Southeastern and chatter Railway pclass locomotive and they were built by the chief engineer Harry way who thought himself to be a really good Railway engineer he much admired the London Brighton South Coast Railway locomotive class A1 the one with like stany really REM it built by William sty
A fantastic little locomotive of huge power he said I’ll build another one I’ll make it a bit bigger I’ve got the same sort of needs because I’ve got very light lightly constructed tracks I can’t have big Locos and I’m going to make it good so he built eight of them and then
The shed Masters pleaded with him not uh they ran for a matter of weeks sometimes before the shed master was stuffed them into the shed and say leave it there or it was used for shunting duties if I tell you eight were built and four in preservation
You might think that’s cuz they were wonderful no it wasn’t it’s because they were never used way around simple as that so so anyway when it came to a locomotive being required to go to the front to be blown to Pieces they didn’t think about for very long send send
Primrose we call that one Primrose at the Blue Bell Railway 27 PE send Primrose bit of luck it’ll never come back but it came back totally unscathed and it’s still still around it’s under heavy restoration at the moment of the blue bar Railway
We come to the end of the war now it was probably the only time in history that the government didn’t want a war to end um for some very good reasons hostilities finished in in in 1918 but the war didn’t finished in 1920 we had
To drag it out first of all I didn’t want all these troops being Dem mobs um and and creating a revolution to overthrow the monarchy because they were so discontented with what had happened during the war even bigger problem is they have to give trou with the railways
Back to the railway companies and that would have been a complete disaster they would quickly have gone broke because the railways were now in an appalling state after the first World War the government appointed what they thought was needed a minister of Transport Eric gz the first ever minister of Transport
For this country and he was told go away and find something that’s going to solve this problem he was this is the man he was no fool he was a railway man he was in charge of the railways in North France during the war he knew what he
Was doing he immediately said we’re going to have to nationalize the railways people in power the two big parties were the conservatives and the Liberals they do not want to nationalize a railway they would nationalize anything they what we say today small government was their idea no intervention
So he say go away think again come up with another idea and there was a fudge there was a 120 companies Railway companies in the country 120 Railway companies and his idea was I can’t nationalize them let’s reduce them and I’ll take them down to four force them to merge to just four
Companies and I’ll make them geographical so there’s very limited opportunity for competition if there’s no competition they can keep their prices up and hopefully will finance the regrowth of the Railway so that’s what took place the bill got went through Parliament in in 1921 1922 it was totally enacted and the
Legal entities of the four new companies took place but it didn’t actually happen to 1923 so we just celebrated that on New Year’s Eve last year that’s when it happened 100 years that’s the four you’re probably familiar with the four Southern Railway Great Western London North easn and Midland Scottish London Midland
Scottish Southern Railway were the odd ones out at that time the money was in Freight that’s where you get your income from if you take let’s go back again if you take um London North London North Eastern Ln um they had masses amount of freight they were sitting pretty you take LMS
They had quite a lot of freight and a reasonable amount of Passenger and and commuter passenger but a lot of freight Great Western had some Hol some passenger traffic but not a lot and a reasonable amount of freight from the coal mines the other ones out with Southern Railway they had no
Freight nearly no Freight very very very little I had a lot of Passenger traffic but the passenger traffic was like it is today everyone went at the start of the day came back at the end of the day the railways were empty in the middle of the day empties on Saturday afternoons on
Sundays so they had an absolutely awful profile they were doomed weren’t they we’ll find out whether they were What did the what did the the two the two companies with the biggest Freight do they thought right we’re sitting pretty we’ve got we’ve got routs and what’s our Prestige route London to
Edinburgh what we want is fast powerful locomotives L they already had Flying Scotsman built come to service 1923 a few years after that they upgraded it because they saw that they wanted to be the the power Kings the sexy locomotives they upgrade F Scotsman to an A3
Class was it 32 didn’t forget the days 1932 Flying Scotsman took the 100 m per hour record the first locomotive recorded at 100 miles per hour they were going for speed this famous locomotive is this the most famous locomotive in the world no there’s some doubt about which one is in
There now malard 126 mph in 1938 still they were heading for Speed and power it was it got the headlines they got all the glory in the the in the National newspapers people thought well they thought that’s good that’s good we get lots of passengers onto our Railway there was something slightly
Wrong in that all although the three companies had lots of fright but not Southern something called Road Transport had come along Road Transport was stealing all the Freight business from the railways so they were losing money on their Freight passengers was really important if it focused on passenger the real
Answer of passengers they were a lot better but they didn’t so there we got Mard Duchess of Hamilton everybody seen duches of Hamilton National Railway Museum beautiful locomotive uh princess coronation class also Built For Speed speed and power but what did Southern do oh oh that’s not quite so sexy is it I’m
Afraid they’re doing their best to make it look sexy but it’s not electric electric you know I’m sure we all aware electric traction the characteristic of the DC series round round wound motor maximum torque and minimum speed phenomenal it’s just what you want just what you want for traction what did that
Mean it meant if you in a a a a a place where there was um large population densities like London London suburbs where you oper operated commuter trains stopping at every station all the time you were stopping and starting steam locomotives are very poor accelerating under load very very poor
They also are very heavy and they’re poor at breaking so if you take a locomotive steam locomotive it might have a top speed of 120 mph something silly but you take it the time over a where it’s got to stop and it’s very very poor have an electric
Mo electric traction you can do a to B fast really fast this is one of the ads that Southern electric Southern no put out ensure a good morning speed they didn’t mean speed over 100 Mil brow they meant I’m going to get you from A to B as fast as
Possible that’s what people wanted they get a to B as fast as possible because they managed to get these these electric trains traveling for as fast as possible there was more capacity to bring more trains onto the railway hence they were more frequent and then Comfort why were they
Was why was there more comfort those nasty smelly steam locomotives all those snuts or that’s so it far more comfortable to have clean electricity uh this is one of the Southern Railway sexy locomotives this is a two how h two how locomotive um two means two cars so the sets were two two
Cars I get to that again one two ha half L laboratory so only had half the cars with Laboratories um not sexy like The Flying Scotsman or Mard is it no they also had one one class that was a four La you work out what that was
For so what formed and this is very very interesting what formed a Southern Railway well it was London Brighton South Coast Railway um and it was Southeastern and chattan Railway but the go there because Southeastern and chatan Railway was in fact an operating Railway owned by two companies Southeastern Railway and
London chatt and DOA Railway but in the late 1880s they got together and said we’re killing each other by competition this is crazy we’re killing each other let’s combined then we won’t compete with each other and we can push the prices up that’s what they did so actually when it
Came to 1923 and grouping bringing them together they were in a good financial position if you take London Brighton South Coast Railway operated down from London Brighton not a lot of competition their competition was mainly with Southeastern chattam Railway and trying to build lines before Southeastern chattam could build them and take their
Business so it was building unprofitable lines that was their competition um they also had competition on the other side with uh with lswr lswr had comp comptition for Great Western raway and they could have had a lot of competition from London Brighton but did they no 1838 really 1838 they got an agreement
Between the two companies that said in The Fringe areas we will not compete instead we will form a joint Railway we’ll both operate it and we take a share of the profits so there’s no competition 1838 is that important my word word is important because it meant
That both those companies ended up in a very strong financial position by the time it got to 1923 in fact on Saturday uh for the museum um I bought a um a cat Patch see if I got one here that sort of thing a cat badge um p £770 for
It that’s a lot of money that’s a lot of money but why because it was such an important thing it was for a railway that was a joint Railway between London Brighton South Coast Railway and uh and London Southwestern Railway where they made this Union in in
1838 that made that meant they stayed in a fairly uh uncompetitive position and made profit it’s a significant period in the history of those Railways so yes we paid that for it and it was called it’s the the company was called the um let’s get it right the
Southwest and South Coast um browny it wasn’t anywhere near the South Coast and it was wasn’t in the southwest but let’s let’s forget about that’s what it was called so significant things these people were good at not competing with each other and so could say with higher
Prices and more competitive I might add that London Brighton South Coast Railway was the meanest Railway company in the whole country PID the lowest to everybody absolutely appalling what made Southern rawing success by the other three lost money EV every organization needs a good leader this is Herbert Walker he spent
The whole time with the of the whole existence of Southern Railway working for them as general manager or director he was brilliant the railway administrator later without parallel when the 23 when the railways were formed um there were three general managers once one from each of the three
Big companies that was or three big Railways that were running at the time by the time we got to the end of the first year nothing was happening but nothing happened whatsoever the other two near to retirement just didn’t want to cooperate didn’t want to do anything and he went
To the directors and just said put me in charge and I’ll sort this out so it was 1924 before he actually got into a position of power the first thing in there in the is electric traction 24 he was appointed by 1928 they’ already done the first section of the Reel electrification of
The London Brighton line in just those four years he moved it on to getting it done and he was moving that’s an incredible achievement electric traction was not new was not new to these companies Um 24 and 1 half miles of HV AC HV AV cery overhead system 24 miles that was London bright Lon bright South Coast Railway were were there that was the leading Edy technology throughout the world there having AC overhead it works and of course that’s what we have today higher voltage
But it’s what we have today but London Southern London Southwestern Railway had the biggest amount 57 miles of LV low voltage third round DC yeah is it a good at the time it wasn’t thought to be so good and perhaps today it’s not thought to be so good in
Fact net ra must been more than 10 years ago said that it was doomed they’re going to scrap it and go overhead it hasn’t happened I don’t think it’ll happen in the next 20 years and if someone can find the money so I think this this might not be seem to be the
Right decision decision to go to that third round but it’s it’s lasted the test of time and very right at the very end there very short distance of London Underground 500 F fourth realm but who was a man in charge Herbert Walker he was an lswr man and he said we know
About this technology tried and tested we’ve been using it for some years now we’re going to go for third rail DC and so that’s what happened so we got it what else did they need very little flight business passenger traffic peaking at rash hours they needed marketing they needed
Marketing like like the country has never seen before because they had to get people onto their trains middle of the day weekends any time part from russal times they wanted people they wer to get it from Freight so they were excellent a marketing there was a publication for nearly
Everything go on a holiday in Kent by train go fishing by train I go to Sussex on Holiday by train go walking of course by train go to the continent by train hey you wanted to get your kids into a public school we’ll show you how to get there by
Train continent by train outdoor walking Southern home’s a great one you buy this inside with a postcard send it to aalo it’s the head office of Southern Railway say what you wanted I want a three-bedroom semi within 15 minutes travel of the city and they will send
You as an estate agent with all the details of the houses and where the nearest railway station was and do it they’re they’re an estate agent I white have I metion mentioned that on grouping I don’t think I have on grouping there was seven Railway companies in the ID Way Seven there’s two
Today we see it seems excessive do it two but seven unbelievable there were 17 in the area of of Southern Railway the Southeast 17 companies sounds a lot to you realize there were 120 companies and that meant that the other threes uh the uh the Ln the
Gwr and the LNS but they had about 35 companies to come into to work 35 companies could it ever work I like it’s one picnic and pleasure parties we don’t have pleasure parties anymore do we uh again more holidays Go to Paris now this
One this was a good one this is a this is a photograph and I’ve actually shortened it a bit it’s a photograph of what’s in in in our Museum um it’s a relief map it’s about 7 foot long by about four and a half feet high
It’s big it’s really big it’s a relief map a contour map um the red lines red marks are the railway lines and the back right and you can see of the stations this St say this was in I think it was at waterl for many many years I’ve been in the museum at
Sheffield Park the Bluebell for 12 years I’ve never had a visitor who could work out what that was for what was the message not one can work out why now how many people who went to the water Lou station looked at this and thought Oh that’s a good idea I’ll get
The message and I’ll go and do that I don’t think many if you look at this enlargement you’ll see the railway lines in red you’ll see the stations marked and you see what looks like battle sites if you look a bit closer you’ll see there actually two golf clubs
Cross yeah they’re golf clubs and the message is we can show you where the golf clubs are so this Sunday or Saturday afternoon you’ll get on a train travel to that station buy a ticket to go there give us some more revenue and you can play around at golf can you
Believe it every niche market they went for cycling you you can’t think of anything it was an extreme but they had to do that to survive and to succeed and they did it they did other things that this is a looks like your friendly local where you going and have a p it’s
Actually a railway Carriage this is a railway Carriage um and this was a bully Carriage was the second chief engineer of Southern Railway and you could turn up there notice the oak beams all the windows were taken out so you couldn’t realize that you were um you were actually
Traveling in a train the the vibration might have made you think there was an earthquake I guess but so you have your P something to eat and you enjoyed your journey that’s what it looked like on the outside yes red brick beams the lot convincing well perhaps not you could
You could watch a watch a film Southern Southern coach here go to the cinema whilst you’re traveling home from work or going on holiday then you could have luxury 1932 that the electrification of the London Brighton line for for third ra 193 2 a pman train a train completely made up of
Pman cars um I don’t if you know the story of pman but the American company they um they they they made their money by taking one of their cars putting it on the back of a train operated by a couple of the companies paying a tariff to that company and charging a premium
To the passenger to come in then of course you sell them food and drink very successful formula the first ever um complete Train by of pman there’s been very very few of them was London to Brighton in 1882 this is 1932 and it’s electric this was that the actual loc
The actual train uh was owned by Southern Railway they not owned by pman a very very big difference but the service within the the train was provided by Portland so you still got the luxury service 1932 1972 before they closed this train and closed it down and there still people
Today complaining I’m sure you so Lawrence Olivia you might remember complained bitterly when they took kippers off the men remember that story yeah beautiful building it’s called a five Bell 5 b l so that’s five um cars B for Brighton e for electric and you can guess what the El was for can’t
You so Innovation uh Moro locomotive bullied locomotive designs Two Chief Engineers Moro now when people look at the history of Railways they think about William stania United as the Great Men for Railway design they made these Locos the The Flying Scotsman the princess coronation the malard they did that they
Were thought to be but and in in in the day the railway Engineers admired what Morel did he produced locomotives that were fit for purpose they didn’t do 12 120 mph they didn’t need to produced reliable designs that did the job that was needed bulled came along later 1938
And he was planning for the future look into the head he was using new technology that would keep the steam engine going as he saw it was needed for many decades to come and he was doing that I didn’t notice any of that happening anywhere else around the
Country this is Lord Nelson Lord Nelson class locomotive still still in service at the mid Hance Railway beautiful locomotive um we we we have here um a schools class locomotive Stow like the end design built by monel this is at the Bluebell we got an S15 at the Blue Bell
Um we’ve got a uass here known as two boats um at the uh at the blue b Railway and it’s pulling a Golden Arrow service probably some of you know this but the the French tricular the Union flag of United Kingdom was at the front it was
At the front of every single train that was ped under the go Golden Arrow Golden Arrow London to Paris a dining service and it crossed the channel fantastic the same flags were used on every single service tricular and un identical same one was used for every
Single service you can go and see those flag Flags in the museum we still have those flags we haven’t washed them if we did they probably fall apart washing them but they’re still there so that’s a u class then we come on to MSO
Uh we got we got a a queue there uh now we now begin a bulli it looks less like a mo steam locomotive of the past you can’t see a chimney Airline design lots of lots different Technical Innovations in that locomotive that’s black more Val
At the blue Railway uh here’s one of a country Clos locomotive I think it’s sari might be wrong um in BR days um this is SAR Bo Sinclair a blue b ra locomotive a light Pacific bullet designed this one was designed during the war if you never seen one before you
He it shocked he some no it’s not is a Marite locomotive you either love it or you hate it now I love it I think they’re really really good Blue Bell had one of the the only one that survived running for 10 years on the blue blow
Line and it was magnificent um it was honed down everything there was a q class monole design but everything you could take off of it they took off the frames were paper thin but what it meant was that he used precious little car precious little
Steel to to build it um and the fact that one lasted is just a miracle very last design by Oliver bullet yes this is a steam locomotive it does look like a diesel it’s got a cab at each end on at that end and one of
That end the coal water is held within the driver can go one end to the other just like a diesel bullied designing for the future this is what was needed well we’ve got going round of Circle here because 1939 we have World War II the same problem most of the
Railways in the country the uh three other than Southern were very run down very run down and then we had to make excess use of the of the of the railways to get us through the world war we get through the world war and I this time I can producer photograph
Taken of a station this is York railway station bond to Pieces it’s beautiful railway station it’s totally 1945 the war ends general election the labor government elected clat uh and he Wast no time in saying we need to nationalize the railways was it a thing that should have happened in
1923 almost certainly but it happened again and perhaps if it had happened in 1923 would’ been in a better position in 19448 of nationalization you can’t rerun history you never know but I think it’s highly likely that would be the case so Southern Railway I started off
With the S the suggestion that perhaps they were a special Railway they were profitable throughout their history they had good leadership importantly they saw the value of electrification if only the rest of our Railway Railways had seen that so importance we’d have a much better Railway system today we certainly
Wouldn’t have a load of diesels running around um they had this fantastic marketing understand your customer give good service understand their needs make them feel happy give even fast frequent trains and they also had that technical Innovation that was needed so Southern Railway started from a good position
Compared to others because they had three successful companies who were making money but they finished an even stronger position if the war hadn’t happened what would have happened how how further would Southern Railway gone on I don’t think we would have seen an awful lot of development in diesels I think they
Would have pushed ahead with with electric an interesting fact from the blue b point of view there a part of the London the Louis East wied Railway is the link between haywoods Heath through arig line to H to Canes that was electrified in 1939 to take place also in 39 at the end
And in 1940 was the electrification of the East gin to Lis time and what I suggest is if that had taken place so it was all electric electrified would the railway have closed in 1955 they didn’t close the link between Hy KES and H until 1963 eight years
After trying to close for the first time the Louis e grin line so it lasted eight years years how much longer would that link have lasted if the rest of the line was electrified we’ll never know but I suggest it would have gone on and on and I think there’s every possibility that
We wouldn’t have closed that Railway even under beaching every possibility um uh so but we’ll never know so it could totally transform what happened to that Railway it would never have become a pres a preserved Railway if that had happened so it’s interesting to rep play
History and say what if but what would have saved them wouldn’t have been steam trains it would have been electrification ah okay I see a signal at danger which means I’ve come to a stop in the end of the journey um I I hope you’ve uh enjoyed the story the
Story of Southern and that you can form your own opinions about um how exceptional Southern was or we’re not but um thanks for coming thanks for listening I hope those who haven’t been to the blue b Railway which I think everyone has come and come again and make sure
You do come to the museum make sure you do um there’s a round way and I’ll finish there thank You questions anybody you take questions I will take questions yeah right have we got some questions you say about electrification I remember reading about Mr beachings lived in East gred he did indeed yeah and that wasn’t electrified until about 1982 I think wasn’t it yeah Str you lived in East in the line
Existed then I can remember as a boy they electric line used to only go to Silling them yeah and then after that Peri in the mid-50s I think it was it went on to than in it yeah uh and then there was also the arfield line stopped
And that guy that ordered all the kit to Electrify that and it was all sent down on B flly yeah um and as you say if it was electrified was it you know sort of be there today but very well I think that very likely and and after
Nationalization in 48 I think they totally lost their way with first of all there’s not the money there it got to be fair there’s not the money there to invest um but it was a big mistake investing in diesels what money was available should have gone into electrification we had the the east
Coast line being electrified which is very good but not much else has happened not much else has happened ever since then so yeah if if Southern continued in existence and there hadn’t been a war then what would have happened I you know I think lot more electrification for sure questions yeah thank you
For really interesting um about the number of companies in each of regions why were there so many is it a fact of like one per line there a a mixture mixture of reasons why there were so many some of them were quite good reasons like they were joint
Railways so rather than compete join forces and build it together half the cost of construction make sure you’re not battling with each other prices ticket prices drop part of it was that um the the other thing is was it was just Mindless competition what why why why why were
The two is competing into Kent so we end up with two lines and two Railway stations in the Midway towns Kent why why did they end up with six railway lines and six companies going into Cardiff mindless competition so there was definitely mindless competition some of the numbers were
Just because um uh that they they did have these joint Railways and others because they were small SP small railways k e Sussex Railway is a good example still in preservation tiny col Stevens raway tiny tiny little little Railway that survived and he had a you know he did survive really well because
He had a game plan that that that works at various places around the country but what I would argue is that if there been government control we that we didn’t have this L laay Fair approach in government throughout the 19th century and then into the 20th century there would have
Been control and it would never happened quite easy to say not for Parliament not permit two people to come with the same proposition to run two Railway cyers very very easy so I would lay the blame squarely a government for doing it and that’s why we ended up with the chaos
That you’d expect if you haven’t got somebody controlling this the scene people argue today for about small government well government gets too small we get chaos and that’s an example of it do that answer the question how much does blue bar radway cost each year that’s an almost impossible
Question to answer I’ll give you though some money that actually is I think quite powerful if if we want to um run a train in sheff park to East Gad and bring it back again uh and all all you consider is the basic running cost of coal water and lubrication it
Costs ,000 a trip fact do so you’ve run six of those a day that’s £6,000 you got £6,000 of customer ticket to come in to pay for that that that is the price and it’s rising that’s last year’s price I hate what to think what it is now so it costs
A hell of a lot of money blue Railway any preservation Railway can only survive with volunteers we have to have some employees but volunteers and one are there we have to have a lot of volunteers to on a normal running day we probably have 70 people working on the railway who volunteers plus
Probably 7 to 10 paid employees that’s the sort of cost thing it’s it’s in just as it’s impossible to run a public Railway service without subsid you can say how the held to preservation Railways do it the subsidy comes in terms of free labor but boy do we need some help from
Government they’re going to stop you know the amount of rates that we have to pay is phenomenal somebody told me the other day that blue baroy is the second largest private land owner in in Sussex in sorry in Sussex I wasn’t aware of that if it’s true imagine the amount of
Rates we’re paying it is phenomenal yeah so I didn’t answer your question but that gives you the measure of it it’s very expensive yeah am I right in thinking that you’re also going to be threatened with what I would classify as stupid emission controls on running your locomotives the
The the government took a step backwards in the legislation uh so we haven’t got to um do we haven’t private individuals uh and we have to burn only process coal the have exension from that and can burn um real coal real coal but often governments don’t help us out
There Runway Co has been coming from near to nor tville which is an opencast mine it’s a mine that’s been there for a long long time and it was a main supplier for a Coal Fired power station on the side they they sold a lot of um coal for for sting locomotives um
The they they they can only operate by means of a license from the Welsh government that Welsh government has refused some the license to to to continue because that was the green thing to do was it the green thing to that’s what they say but it wasn’t cu
The coal we buy now comes from Halfway Around the World what does that do to the environment and it’s poor quality coal it’s mkey coal government doesn’t help us at all if if I could give a l i give a talk I’d loveely give a talk on how government is
What’s the polite words mess things up throughout the history of Railways they have from the start and they have to the finish and I you can pick I can pick on it they are the mess things up by a refusal refusal to intervene and take responsib ility and just say we’re not
Interested or they mess it up by intervening in a in a in in a very wrong way it’s I don’t think this happens in other countries in Europe really don’t think it does I’m sure not sure that answer the question I you most likely just agree with me
Yeah I think you’re being a little unfair when you suggest that Innovation and electrification stopped with the denies of the Sou because it success of the southern region did pursue all those those strategies that the southern started electrification expanded all over the place I agree I was being somewhat
Kind because it did sou Reon did until eventually all their Innovation was drained out of them yeah um I have a question as well is perhaps a silly question but uh it intrigued me when you showed Locomotion one which was the first Eng on the
Funnel there was a 54 what was all that about I don’t know where I really I I’ve tried to find I don’t know where that 54 came from why you don’t know why no was it a mockup of the rail Hill trials that the 54th entrance something no well no
It was actually it was actually a mockup and it was in the right place uh of of locomotion one on the stock and dar and Railway so there was no reason on Earth to give it a number Locomotion one of ear had it was number one that
Was it so why that what that 54 was about I do not know it’s it’s very weird and I’ve seen that other photographs of the same so and the number is still on the chimney yeah so I don’t know why any further questions at the back I’ve got a flag
Got to wa it anyway moving on well it’s a relief because he reflected us a it come through um I’m just going to shout out the volunteers because I work at um in the Bri at the oo yard at ch um doing all these mechanical stuff supporting
The stuff and it’s really great fun so if you not just visit go and volunteer and there’s all sorts you know different there electrical stuff signals anding up railway lines if this needs a disclaimer because I think I said to Mike he said he said how how do you get involved with
The blue bille Railway and I said it’s like going to Brighton for a paddle before you know it you’re swimming the English Channel and that’s what it’s like cuz it’s it’s quite addictive it’s bit like driving a steam engine it’s quite addictive you do it once you want
To do it again again and again and again also being in a railway you get drawn in because it’s such a fascinating it’s a business let’s face it it is a business and it’s a fascinating business um it’s got no right to survive it really hasn’t you look look
At the economics of it the the the uh the absurdity of it but it does and it survives uh once you get involved in it you cannot pull away so anyone wants to volunteer just come and see me and I especially if you want to volunteer in a museum
Yeah very keen to hear you and uh one of the things that that I’m pushing is that we’ve had one thing that’s held wellways back is that we’ve had enthusiasts that we hope are capable to run the business that has been the way that we’ve gone about it and the world’s
Got to change because what we want as volunteers is capable people who we hope will become enthusiasts that way around we’ve got better chance of survival and thriving so capable people is what we need not enthusiasts who might be capable okay if there’s no more questions I would uh go through the wind
Up and uh first of all as a mark of appreciation for the talk alcolm we’ve got some various bits one is a certificate normally we say to prove to your wife that you were actually here she’s and and the other one or two bits of I so we’re giving you some I uh
Advertisements and you us some very nice advertisements for the Blue Bell Railway so thank you very much for a really excellent talk