#waterscarcity #waterwars #climatechange
Episode 5: Will climate change lead to water wars?
Water scarcity is already hitting about 40% of the world’s population. And droughts could put up to 700 million people at risk of displacement by the year 2030. Could this lead to a new era of violent conflict over water?
Interviewee featured in this episode:
Susanne Schmeier, associate professor of water law and diplomacy, IHE Delft Institute for Water Education
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:16 Are we entering an era of water wars?
02:52 Water World – are we headed there?
04:49 How water scarcity drives displacement
07:04 Mapping water security risks
09:58 Iraq: Conflict over water
11:21 Are there patterns to how water conflicts erupt?
14:24 Water scarcity also leads to cooperation
18:57 Do dams solve water security problems?
21:25 Legal rules for how governments use shared water resources
24:34 How do we avoid future conflicts over water?
27:52 The role of people in wealthy countries
29:28 Does water footprint labeling make sense?
30:56 Turning saltwater into drinking water
33:04 Examples of regions that solved water scarcity
35:55 What happens if rich countries run out of water?
37:52 Neil’s takeaways
On the green fence Neil here and thanks for listening to on the green fence and rating or reviewing us wherever you get your podcasts and uh just thought I’d get that out of the way right at the top of this episode and uh yeah this is the final episode of our water
Series now after all we’ve learned in the last four episodes it won’t come as a big surprise to you that water is a precious and uh sometimes rather contested resource so in today’s episode we will have a look at the potential of water or or rather water scarcity for
Conflict and uh just a stat there water scarcity already affects roughly 40% of the world’s population and according to predictions by the United Nations and the World Bank drought could put up to 700 million people at risk of displacement by the year 20 30 so what
Does this mean are we maybe entering a new era of water wars and conflict time to bring in zzan shmeer from The dutch-based Institute for water education who’s an expert on water diplomacy and conflict Zana how worried are you that we might be entering a new
Era of water wars or water conflict I think there’s certainly a risk of conflict if we look at how much more water we need to meet increasing demand because of population growth economic development but then that also coupled with the increasing variability due to climate change so water not always being
Available when and where it’s actually needed by people so that is definitely something that increases the risk for conflict as people might compete over water resources that are indeed becoming scarer or that they at least perceive as becoming scarer or where they have the impression that the fact that another
User uses these Water Resources has a negative impact on their own ability to use these Water Resources but that is definitely something that’s happening however we also have to think about what conflict actually means and are we talking about conflict in general and are we talking about conflict in terms
Of disagreement are we talking about conflict in terms of violent conflict and in addition to that do we mean conflict more at the local level between individual people or between communi or do we mean conflict between countries which is typically implied when we talk about water wars and I think the big
Difference that we see here is that conflict especially if it’s violent conflict has been happening and is much more likely to happen at the local and subnational level but not so much at the transboundary or or International level but I mean if if we look at you know I’m
Looking far ahead now maybe also you know this is science fiction or too dystopian but I mean just for instance have you seen the the movie Water World with Kevin Cosner yes is is that something you know I mean a world where you know a dystopian icef free overheated World flooded by saltwater
Where fresh water is the most precious thing that we have is that something that is completely unrealistic or could we be heading that way do you think I I hope not and I tend to take a more optimistic stance and I do think that there are solutions out there through
Which we can address risks that world is facing when it comes to water so for me the question is more is humankind willing to take the necessary steps is are our politicians are we all prepared to compromise to compromise for example with our neighbors and be that our immediate neighbors or neighboring
Countries with whom we share water so are we are we willing to invest in new technologies but also improve our governance systems improve our legal systems collaborate internationally establish International norms and share not only water but mainly the the benefits that can arise from water or are we pursuing very unilateral
Strategies be it again at the individual or at the national or International level and I think that will will determine things especially because we know that very often water problems lead to conflict not so much because of the water itself be it water scarcity uh be it a drought be it water quality
Problems but more because of the inability of a society or an institution that governs the society to adapt to such change so it’s more the question how do we handle water related challenges than the challenges themselves I I I can sense that you know you’re very pragmatic about this you
Don’t want to go to the Hollywood level of discussing it on a dystopian level I understand that perfectly but um I mean I’m looking at the figures if we bring it back now to the the present um water scarcity affects roughly 40% of the world’s population um and according to
Predictions by the United Nations and the World Bank drought could put up to 700 million people at risk of displacement by 2030 um I mean these figures alone I mean that already sounds like a nightmare scenario and very dystopian to me it absolutely is and it definitely is a very urgent call to
Manage our Water Resources better and to deal with other factors that determine whether or not water challenges actually lead to conflict and there is still quite some potential to improve things on the on the technological side but also on the governance side if we start with technology for example one key
Challenge is um that we’re not using the water resources that we have efficiently there places um think about Iraq or Iran for example where in urban water supply systems and up to half the water is being lost before it actually reaches the consumer so addressing this is
Definitely a a way forward to make more out of the water that we have even if that water is becoming scars similarly you mentioned agriculture being in average worldwide uh a huge water user with up to 70% but in other countries such as the two that I just
Mentioned Iraq and Iran using more than 90% of all the water that’s definitely also a sector that we can address um there are different irrigation Technologies they’re very efficient irrigation Technologies when we think about drip irrigation or even more modern um approaches where you irrigate Within the soil so you get the water
Directly to the roots of the plant in order not to lose water through evaporation and that’s all thing that that we can invest but that’s definitely not happening enough and not in enough places around the world so I’m not saying we’re not facing any challenges but I’m confident that we can take
Measures to address these challenges be them be they directly water related where we can can deal more with Technologies or be they related to governance and our and the necessity for humankind to to cooperate and come to yeah to effective governance Arrangements if we just try and you know
Also for our listeners to to give them a feel for just where this is playing out globally you you mentioned a website to me you sent me a link uh water peace security.org and I’ve brought it up here on the computer um and they’ve got this
Map and this is this is like uh an online tool right to raise uh awareness about water related security risks and I’ve got this map the only thing that’s highlighted at the moment seems to be Africa and Asia um at least on my screen um but but can you perhaps explain you
Know what this map does and and what the significance of these colors are I can see orange I can see yellow um what does this mean yeah so this map which is part of the water peace and security partnership aims at highlighting where there is an increased risk of water
Conflict happening over the next 12 months so it’s basically something something that you could call a a forecasting tool or a warning tool um that yeah aims at raising awareness for where the risks so where there’s maybe policy response needed in order to prevent conflicts over water either from
Occurring or from intensifying from worsening and how does it work it’s work it’s based on on machine learning so it’s new technology again that can help us to better understand water related conflict risks and it’s based on a Model that process is a huge quantity of data
And a huge number of parameters that we know are in one or the other way linked to water related conflict and here we um look at the very water specific factors so we look at drought we look at Water scarcity we look at at water loss through evap transpiration and and other
Factors or more on the hydrological on the water side but we also look at population Dynamics um rapid population growth for example but also incoming populations due to migration but also for example the share of of young men or the share of jobs in agriculture dependence on water of different um
Economic sectors and all these factors together processed by Machine learning so by a new technology allow us to actually process huge amounts of data which can then give us a a very informed guess I’m not saying this is perfect forecasting it’s more like the weather forecast over the next two years uh two
Two weeks so it gives you an impression um but it well it’s not 100% sure but it gives you an indication where there’s an increased likelihood of conflict over waterer occurring in the next 12 months and obviously um that is more meant to raise awareness among policy makers if
You then pick a certain reason region so if you were to zoom in into Iraq for example or any other place let me just do that I’ll zoom into Iraq and Iran here now Iraq is marked yellow large parts of it that means ongoing conflict and other parts of it are marked orange
Which means emerging conflict um exactly so there either was a conflict already that we expect to continue in the next 12 months or there is newly emerging conflict so conflict um that will occur in the next 12 months in both cases there’s there’s need for
Action so in both cases that is a sign for for polic makers in Iraq itself obviously but then also possibly the International Community supporting Iraq or any other country where the situation looks like that to address these these conflict risks and ideally ensure that what we indicate here conflict in uh
Emerging or continuing over the next 12 months that that doesn’t happen if however you wanted to zoom in in more detail and really look at what drives the conflict so is it now more a hydrological factor or is it more incoming uh migratory population or is it certain economic factors that really
Drive the conflict and if you wanted to know what the share of influence of each of that factors is then you obviously need to go into Much More Much More localized um analysis so this is more like going to the doctor for a for a general checkup so would Iraq um um I
Mean would that be a good example for to explain the Dynamics of conflict over water you know how this is there a certain pattern um how these conflicts evolve and and also develop yeah I think Iraq um as quite a few other countries around the world is definitely a good
Example so what we’re seeing there is that there’s an in there’s a decreasing availability of water and an increasing demand so looking at the the availability first why is that decreasing that’s uh due to a number of factors it’s obviously um hydrological situation itself so Iraq is located in a
Very dry area has always been but then also climate change making that worse with making water or decreasing rainfall um making water less available also throughout the year but then also that coupled with man-made factors such as for example Upstream of Iraq Dam Construction in Turkey um that reduces
The flow of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers that flow into Iraq but also in Iran where there’s also um heavy Dam construction heavy construction of water infrastructure to divert water that would otherwise from Iran flow into Iraq but that also coupled with inefficient Irrigation in Iraq inefficient Urban water supply and that altogether
Reducing the availability while at the same time the population grows the economy grows different sectors the agricultural sector but also the oil producing sector um having an increasing need for water and that together leads to a situation where there is not always enough water for everyone and especially
Where the water that’s available is not at quality that it could be directly used so one of the conflicts for example that we’ve seen in the past years in Iraq was actually a water quality related problem so in 2018 the reduced flows so the reduced water in the Euphrates Tigris together
With the um intrusion of pollutants has led to a situation where the water quality especially in southern Iraq in bazra turned so bad that um yeah people were suffering from from that pollution leading to more than 180,000 people being hospitalized in a very short time which then led to protests against the
Government because well rightfully so populations were disappointed in the government and its its ability to provide public services such as the basic service of providing water to populations and that led to led to protest that continued from 2018 to 2019 and actually led to the resignation of the Prime Minister eventually again here
Here um it’s difficult to to perfectly disentangle the role of water from the role of other factors obviously people were not only protesting uh with regards to water but it was also about jobs it was about electricity Supply about General grievances towards the government but water definitely played a a key role
Here in has been destabilizing the country and continues to do so there was one thing I came across which I thought was rather interesting um obviously the Middle East it is a very volatile area you know politically obviously is a region where yeah it’s difficult to achieve lasting
Peace um and I was sort of thinking you know this would be the perfect setup for for water wars you know in in an area like this but um apparently it seemed like direct conflict you know of water risks in this region they’re not as common as some might think according to
The World Bank um water scarcity has historically you know just looking back actually led to more cooperation then conflict and it was sort of saying that of the I’m just going to quote this here of 975 water events involving International river basins in the Middle East and North African region between 1948 and
2008 that’s quite a long time span um after the second world war 56% were cooperative and 37% were conflictive and 8% were neutral so I mean I mean just given the number of armed conflicts that have happened in the region since then um I thought that were super surprising
Yeah it’s surprising but also um gives us a a more optimistic outlook for the future and I think what we need to look at here is the very special nature of water it simply does not make sense for countries to go over to go to war over water resources the typical setup that
We have that would lead to conflicts between countries is a situation where an upstream country think about turkey on the Euphrates tigers or think about Ethiopia on the Nile uh builds an infrastructure scheme a dam typically that leads to a situation where the downstream States or Iraq or Egypt in in
These cases fears that their ability to use the water would be negatively impacted which then these countries often attach to National Security considerations the question of national survival and so on but imagine such a situation what could the downstream country then do very directly it could engage in a violent conflict but would
That be feasible would that be economic and would that be longlasting there have indeed been threats by Egypt towards Ethiopia but also for example by usbekistan towards Tajikistan to blow up dams that were being built and to go to war however first of all that would of course have negative effects immediately
On the downstream country as the water flushes out and flows Downstream but also more in the long run occupying a country just to keep that country from building a dam is something that is extremely costly so just blowing up the dam is something that that doesn’t really help we’ve seen this in
Afghanistan another country that has been um embarking on a very ambitious Dam building trajectory in the past or at least until until August 2021 when the Taliban took over and downstream countries such as Iran have been massively concerned about the potential impacts of these dams but even there
Where there have been accusations that Iran possibly paid Taliban and and other illicit groups to sabotage Dam building or Dam construction sites in Afghanistan even there if something happened to these construction sites the the dam building eventually continued so military engagement here is just not a very promising tactic moreover we have
To consider that water relations of countries are always embedded in the broader set of relations bilaterally between the countries but also broad more broadly regionally so even if there was a gain to be made when it comes to water security this would threaten other relations be it political relation
Between the countries be it trade relations economic relations cultural relations not even talking about reputational losses um in the International Community for example and if we think about the case of over rund Dam in Central Asia where usbekistan has been opposing the building of rogun dam in Tajikistan we have seen a significant
Deterioration between the two countries when it comes to economic ties um energy exports being cut um trade and transport links being cut the sending of of money between the two countries remittances being cut and that is just something that gets so costly for these countries that it doesn’t make sense to engage in
A water conflict that then comes with all these negative repercussions economically politically so luckily until today we haven’t seen War these famous water wars between countries and and as I said it’s much more likely to happen at the national and subnational level um I mean talking of these tensions the dam building that’s
Happening um across the globe I mean I found a figure that there’s something like 60,000 dams in the world and that they’re planning I think it was over three and a half thousand uh within the next couple of years are under construction or planned I mean what is
Your take on dams is that something you know do we need more of them in future for water security and I mean where’s the trade-off there with you know the environment yeah it’s definitely a tricky question if not maybe one of the most tricky questions when it comes to
Water Management in in the few decades to come on the one hand we definitely need more dams if we look at climate change so if we want to mitigate climate change so reduce our CO2 emissions dams are often claimed to be one of the solution dams are are counted or
Considered as as green as renewable energy of course there are environmental um negative environmental effects but generally there a way to generate electricity that we all seem to desperately need and therefore um yeah that seems to justify the building of dams moreover not only thinking about CO2 emission reductions but also
Thinking about adaptation to climate change dams are something that that will probably need right if water becomes more variable if the water availability changes within and between years there’s an increasing pressure to store the water whenever it comes because it might be coming rainfall and snow melt might
Be coming at a time when water is not really needed so if you want to store that water and make it available at a later point in time that’s when dams are needed so that’s the side that would argue yes we definitely do need more dams another side would probably argue
That the environmental effects negative effects by way outweigh the um the positive effects of dams that I just mentioned but then also what you’re hinting at is also the political Dimension is the dimension of conflict behind that and as more and more countries embark on a on a more
Ambitious Dam building agenda often as I said justified by climate change mitigation and adaptation concerns it’ll become more and more important to actually manage and operate these stems in a Cooperative way and international law and International Water governance approaches help us for doing so there are international legal Frameworks that
Governance Frameworks that can help countries to avoid or to mitigate some of the conflict risks relating to dams question is will these countries do that that would have been my next question but given you know that water has been declared a basic human right by the UN
Um what the legal handle is you know to stop governments um from using dams as leverage for instance against other countries or or or sitting on the water and preventing it you know going to a neighboring country are there any precedents here legally yes we do have uh quite an
Elaborate International legal framework when it comes to water resources that are shared between countries the question is as very often with international law no matter what subject area it covers the enforcement but if we look at the instruments available we have two Global conventions that set out very clearly defined principles of how
Countries can and should be using water resources that they share with others and we have even more many more in fact more than 700 international treaties between countries that share water resources and the key principles here are um main or one being that you should not a country should not use water
Resources in the way that causes significant harm to another country and then and I think that’s particularly important International Water law also provides more procedural means of how that can be ensured because you can imagine that significant harm is a concept that a downstream country will have a very different idea than an
Upstream country so here guidance comes in from international law that for example requires a country that wants to build a dam or any other big infrastructure project has to actually notify its neighboring states the states with whom it shares these Water Resources about these plants very early
On and then discuss with these countries what the impacts might be and possibly adapt the design of the project and we have indeed in various regions around the world seen that this works I’m thinking about the the makong where there has been quite a bit of disagreement between Laos for example
And the downstream states in the law making Basin when La um started to develop dams on the Kong mainstream and other countries namely um Cambodia and Vietnam were concerned about that it’s a similar situation to what we’re seeing between Egypt and Ethiopia the difference being that there have never
Been any threats to go to war or any other threats of violence between these countries because La has indeed in the context of a legal Regional framework notified the other countries told the other countries what the plans were what the potential impact of the project would be and then kept on negotiating
Even if if heatedly and in a in a yeah very very disagreeing manner had have has kept negotiating with the neighboring countries and ultimately even for one specific Dam adapted design of the dam in order to account for concerns by Cambodia and Vietnam especially with regards to environmental
Impacts so I’m not saying that conflicts can be entirely avoided by using international law but they can be contained in a manner that they do not escalate or lead a risk of of violence or even war between countries okay so I mean if if we come
Back then to um we just talked a bit about um the legal framework um if we come back to you know avoiding conflicts in future dams was one thing you just mentioned we’re going to need them to mitigate climate change there is a trade-off with the environment I mean
For instance it can affect fish stocks it can lead to all sorts of negative side effects for for the biodiversity alongside the river and in the river um but if this is the future that we’re going to have more dams and uh we need to mitigate the impacts of climate
Change um what else can we do to address this problem of water scarcity and avoid you know future conflicts from turning nasty over water yeah I think there are a number of measures that can be taken and we can probably differentiate between the more technical ones and the
More political or legal or governance or even also economic and financial ones on the technical side I think there’s still quite a bit of room to use existing technologies that allow us to use water more efficiently but also to develop new ones if we look at for example the
Improvement and the advances in irrigation technology over the last decades there is still a lot of room to use what has been developed I mean some countries are using extremely efficient irrigation Technologies Israel for example that other countries yeah are not using for a number of reasons be it
Technical or financial capacities or be it the unavailability of these Tech Technologies but I think there is still a lot of of room for improvement the same for improving Urban water supply networks for example so I think there’s there’s quite a bit of of progress to be
Made there and then if we look at the economic side I think there’s also um still some room for improvement when it comes to increasing the efficiency of water use for example by through water prices and I’m not talking about privatization and about selling water but about um through tariffs publicly um
Developed and and collected tariffs that give a value to the water that makes it also visible for the public what they’re actually been using what the costs of using that water is and what the trade-offs are if water is being used for one sector or for one specific use
It not being available for another sector or another use what the economic consequences are of that and related to that obviously also on the political side trying to develop mechanisms that that distribute that allocate water between the different users in a way that’s being perceived as fair and Equitable between the different users
Doesn’t matter whether that’s individual people in the community or whether that’s different sectors in a country or whether that’s actually two or three or more different countries so involving all the different users and interests the different stakeholders and developing um a sharing scheme that allows for everyone to be hurt because
What we know is that one of the key drivers for water conflict is not so much absolute scarcity or the the unavailability of water at a certain point but the perception of water users that water that they’re using now might not be available to them in the future because someone else is perceivably
Using more of that water resources or plans to do so in the future suzan I learned while doing this series on water that um here in Germany our indirect water footprint is far greater than our direct water footprint because most of the water intensive products we buy they they are imported I
Mean is there something that we can do I mean we’re very fortunate we we have enough water right now I mean can we help diffuse water conflicts on other continents by rethinking our own consumerism here in Europe or is this something that’s it’s just not connected
Because the water cycle is global or I mean how does how does this how does the dynamic work here I think that’s definitely something very important to to keep in mind we in Europe but also in the US for example consume a lot of food but also other products um for which the
Resources that are being used are grown in other regions including in regions that suffer from water scarcity if we think for example about fruit such as grapes that we eat you in Europe a lot of them come from South Africa or Namibia both being countries that have suffered from severe water scarcity and
That have also seen their share of of regional dis agreements between neighboring countries over increasingly scarse Water Resources so as long as we’re consuming products like that also thinking about coffee for example and about 130 lers of water going into a cup of coffee that’s definitely something we
We need to reconsider might not be entirely feasible always um but I think that’s definitely something to look at and something where we can probably make a an even bigger impact than turning the tab off while we brush our teeth in Europe are you in favor of labeling
Products or is that something that’s Pie in the Sky it’s never going to happen as to you know the water footprint of certain products I think it definitely makes sense to do that we do have the means now to estimate quite well how much water how many liters of water go
Into a certain product um where Concepts such as the virtual water concept so if we could label that and put it out there for the consumer to be informed and then make his or her own choices I think that’s that’s definitely something that’s important of course that always
Comes with trade-offs as well I just mentioned the uh the fruit production such as grapes in South Africa um of course from a water perspective we maybe shouldn’t be consuming South African grapes anymore but on the other hand that is an e an important economic sector for the country it’s a sector
That gains um export income for South Africa or Namibia and that’s things that are desperately needed for example to advance education or or health services in these countries so I think we have to we have to look at both sides of the coin but labeling is definitely a step
Forward to make the consumer here in in Europe and in the US more aware and then also be able to make their own choices and interestingly it doesn’t only concern products that we import from from very far away I mean think about almonds being grown in California that’s
Also something that that if we look at the water situation in the American West doesn’t really make sense so maybe also something to consider for the American Consumer in the US and not only far away what is your take on technology cuz I mean a lot of people think technology
Can save us with all these problems that we Face we just need to you know develop these products and for instance I mean one thing that gets thrown around a lot is um uh desalination I mean given that only 3% of the world’s water is fresh
Water and the rest is salty uh I mean on on paper that sounds pretty good you know oh I’ll just turn that salt water into into drinkable water um what’s your take on that I think generally technology is definitely a way ahead and we should be investing into more
Research and development that helps us to get more out of the water that we have or to access new water resour sources such as salt water but then of course that always comes with a with a big caveat in the case of desalination being the fact that it’s extremely
Expensive to do it it has environmental impacts for example what do you do with the salt where do you dump it and if you dump it back into the sea what impacts does that have on the marine environment but then thirdly also the problem that desalination is extremely energy
Intensive so again you need something to fuel the diesel ination under current climate change developments we obviously don’t want that to be coal or oil or gas so the question is which renewable energy sources can you use for desalination and that uh might work well to a certain extent with solar in
Countries such as as Israel or or other very um Sunny countries but there is a limit to that so I think desalination is a is a great approach for more local problems for example an amazing approach for small islands that don’t have access to water that don’t have Rivers where
Groundw is maybe depleting but that that might have a lot of sun but it’s not a solution for for large scale water supply for entire countries so if I were to summarize um if I understood you correctly the various measures that we can take there measures on an economic
Level we can take there measures that we as consumers can take by um reducing our water footprint but governance is also you know a key key aspect when it comes to solving this problem uh a multilateral approach and um and good governance um can you give us perhaps an
Example where all these factors came together and where you know I don’t know people turned things around who were really you know in Dire Straits when it came to water but they managed to get their water supply back again um I think we haven’t really found the perfect
Solution yet and there’s not that one place uh in the world where things would have worked out when it comes to governance technology economy and so on but um I think there are a few examples that we can learn from I mentioned South Africa and Namibia earlier that’s
Definitely a region that has been suffering significantly from water scarcity is heavily affected by climate change but has managed to address the conflict potential that arises from that um quite nicely at different levels if we look at the local level um many of the listeners might remember Day Zero in
Cape Town but actually affecting the entire region in 2015 and since since 2015 a lot of measures have been taken not only to diversify the water supply for Cape Town which before was entirely dependent on collecting rain water during the rainy season um but especially also on
Reducing the demand so in fact the demand has been reduced to now around 50 lers per person per day compare that to California for example it’s 350 lers per person per day there and that has been done through introducing tariffs especially for heavy water users so also
Trying to be careful not to put too much burden on the poorest who need a certain water just for survival but also through public information campaigns for example just making everyone aware and I think that the day Zero wording itself was quite successful in that you’re just
Making everyone aware of the fact that water is limited in that region and that uh watering Lawns or having lawns in front of your house in the first place is maybe not the best thing to do so at the local level quite a good response but especially at the regional level
Because we sometimes forget that South Africa was not the only country and caped down not the only city that was affected heavily back then but also Botswana and Namibia for example that are further Downstream on the orange river which is the river that connects from loto to South Africa and then down
To to Botswana and Namibia so these countries were also heavily affected um and and claimed rightfully so their their share To The River and the countries have come together in a joint commission that they have and discussed um the sharing of water and the expanding of water sharing schemes
Together involving all the four countries and there was really taking a A multilateral or cooperative approach to addressing a problem instead of everyone falling back on their unilateral behavior and saying oh I need to secure my share of the Water Resources before anyone else gets it as
We’ve as we’re seeing in in other parts of the world unfortunately that I mean that would bring me to this question which I’ve sort of been pondering you know I mean we’re still very lucky in Europe uh right now when it comes to water but even here in Germany the ground waterer
Levels they are lower than usual and and certain areas they they have a persistent drought we may not see it but it’s considered a drought right I mean what happens if if richer countries if they start waking up to the fact that their water could run out one day um I
Mean do you think there might be a new phase of water imperialism with um stronger countries exploiting the weaker ones as as water colonies we might see that to some extent not so much in terms of countries richer countries getting water as they used to do in colonial
Times with minerals and gold for example but more in an indirect sense where countries could start growing their food in countries that still have water and then export the food to meet their population’s needs and we’re actually seeing that already to some extent also in relation or in the context of land
Grabbing in parts of Africa where um Arab states the Emirates Saudi Arabia but also China are heavily investing in huge agricultural schemes in parts of Eastern Eastern Africa where they grow food where they grow rice that’s being exported for example to China in order to meet needs there that cannot be met
Domestically anymore because of the water situation in China so I think that’s something that we we could potentially experience in the future um as a combination of water challenges but again not water alone being the reason but also in relation to to power asymmetries between countries um questions of land grabbing but again
Also questions of of insufficiently effective governance in these countries suzan schmeer from The dutch-based Institute for water education thank you very much for joining us here with on the green fence thank you very much okay so time for my main takeaways from this episode and because this was a
Lot to digest for you already I’m going to try and keep it as short as possible first off Suzanna doesn’t believe we’ll see water wars between nations in fact any conflicts are more likely to play out at a more local or Regional level and most of them will be contained or
Resolved peacefully as to the solutions that would help keep a lid on water conflict or scarcity one of the points she highlighted was that we need more advanced irrigation techniques to reduce the water footprint of farming which is huge especially in less developed countries where farming accounts for up
To 90% of the water footprint as things stand now desalination won’t solve our water problem and only makes sense in certain regions and on a very limited scale because the process still is very energy intensive and also polluting and finally listening to Zanna it became very clear
To me that dams yeah no matter what you make of them they they will be a growing part of the equation if we want to achieve water supply security especially you know uh against the backdrop of climate change which is messing with weather patterns and the water cycle so
Yeah we’re going to need more dams having said that there is of course a tradeoff with the environment here and it’s something um that we shouldn’t forget about of course that’s my two cents for now and this also concludes our series on water please do listen
Back to the other episodes we did if you haven’t done so already it should give you quite a broad uh take on the challenges that we’re facing globally when it comes to water and the environment and um yeah just to note we’ll also be kicking off a new series
On the future of food very soon so please do join us for that as well in the meantime you can always email us your feedback or any questions you might have just drop us a line to on theeg greenfence dw.com many thanks to my colleague and producer Natalie Mueller
And my sound engineer G gagi and a big thank you to you for listening and sharing on the green fence my name is Neil king take it easy and take care