Sunak Denies Islamophobia Problem in Tory Party After Lee Anderson’s Rant | #NovaraLIVE

Rishi Sunak has denied the Tories have a problem with Islamophobia after the suspension of Conservative MP Lee Anderson over comments about London Mayor Sadiq Khan.

Plus: A U.S Airman in Washington DC has protested Israel’s war in Gaza by self-immolating outside the Israeli embassy; and the media are outraged at Charlotte Church because she led a choir singing about Palestine.

00:00 Intro
00:50 Lee Anderson Suspended
16:40 Israel Not Complying With ICJ
27:14 US Airman Self-Immolation Protest
35:04 Charlotte Church Interview
47:50 Declining UK Town Centres

With Michael Walker and Aaron Bastani.
__________________________

Support our journalism by buying Novara Media merch:
https://shop.novaramedia.com

Donate one hour’s wage per month, or whatever you can afford:
http://novara.media/support

Welcome to Navara live I’m Michael Walker and I’m joed by Aaron bani Aaron how are you doing Michael I’m very well um great to be joining you on a very unusual Monday evening a very unusual Monday evening because I’m because I’m joined by AR bani I don’t know where Ash

Is no one no one tells me these things but it’s great to have you on board Aron um coming up later tonight Human Rights Watch have said that Israel is not complying with the provisional measures outlined by the icj um we’ll also discuss the pretty dist pressing footage

You might have seen of someone protesting Israel’s war in Gaza by self imulation outside the Israeli Embassy in the United States um and the media are in Outrage at Charlotte Church because she’s led a choir singing about Palestine we’ll be speaking to Charlotte Church later in the show stay tuned for

All of that Richi sunak has declared the Tories do not have a problem with islamophobia that’s Aid a new row about anti-muslim racism in the party as your probably aware that Ral has been prompted or was prompted late last Friday by this man Lee Anderson don’t actually believe that these islamists

Have got control of our country but what I do believe is they’ve got control of K and they’ve got control of London and they’ve got control of storm as well people are just turning up in their thousands and doing anything they want and they are laughing they are laughing

At our place and I feel absolutely disgusted and again this stems with KH he’s he’s he’s he’s actually given out given our Capital City away to his mates we’ve got stor there with using K’s Pockets anybody who’s thinking about voting for reform at the election who

Thinks this is going to sort out all our problems look beware because if you let laboring through the back door expect more of this and expect our CI to be taken over by these lunatics now that reference to Sadi KH as controlled by islamists was deemed as deeply offensive

By most right thinking people including sadic Khan these comments from a c conservative are islamophobic are anti-muslim and are racist we’ve seen over the last uh 2 days uh confirmation that over the last few months there’s been an increase in anti-muslim cases by more than 330% these comments uh pour fuel on the

Fire of anti-muslim hatred and I’m afraid the deafening Silence from Rishi sunak and from the cabinet is them condoning this uh racism and I’m afraid it confirms so many people across the country that there’s a hierarchy when it comes to racm now after that response from KH the conservative party’s Chief

Whip announced that Anderson had been suspended um that was quote following refusing to apologize for his comments RI sunak was asked about that suspension this morning how do you account for Lee Anderson’s comments and your decision to suspend him well I said his clearly his choice of words wasn’t AC acceptable it

Was wrong and that’s why the whip was suspended words matter especially in the current environment where tensions are running high and I think it’s incumbent on all of us to choose them carefully how frustrating is it that he hasn’t apologized for those comments I said look the most important thing is that

People realize that the words they use in a situation that we’re in now where I said tensions are running higher than I think any of us would like and my priority is to try and take the heat out of this situation I think that’s what everyone wants to

And that’s why words matter and his words weren’t acceptable they were wrong and that’s why the whip was suspended so Anderson’s comments were wrong and inappropriate says sunak but were they wrong and inappropriate because they were racist and islamophobic or something else well sunak didn’t say and he wasn’t pressed

On that by the BBC journalist but over on Sky transport secretary Mark Harper was you say it was wrong was it racist well it was wrong and uh I’m not going to get into arguing about the Rights and Wrongs of what he said it was

Wrong in my book wrong is a strong word uh it was not true to racist as I said Sadi Khan’s got a ter sadik Khan’s got a terrible record on his uh track record as mayor of London that’s not my question Mr har you’ve already dealt

With that matter my question is was it racist what he said well look I’m not going to get into a detailed analysis of what he said what he said was wrong and it wasn’t true he shouldn’t have said it he failed to take the opportunity to attract those

Comments and apologize that’s why there was firmly L people are wrong I’m wrong on a daily basis I’m not a racist no but what he said about Sadi KH was profoundly wrong those things were not true though they’re not true and what he said was wrong and he shouldn’t

Have said them as I said there’s a range of things we can criticize Sadi H for he’s got a terrible track record on transport and that’s what I’m going to yeah you told me that already Mr Harper I’ve allowed you to say that three times no as you saw from Mark Harper’s jacket

There he’s transport secretary not the Deputy Prime Minister so my apologies there Labor’s Analise dods has called out the Tories for refusing to call Lee Anderson’s words islamophobic so she tweeted this this was in response to the Deputy Prime Minister um why are senior conservatives finding it so hard to call

Out islamophobia perhaps because the conservatives still refuse to adopt the definition used by every other major political party in Britain to tackle the scourge of islamophobia we must name it well KY Bok has responded to that with this tweet we use the term anti-muslim hatred it makes clear the law protects

Muslims in this country we have a proud tradition of religious freedom and the freedom to criticize religion the definition of islamophobia she uses creates a blasphemy law by the back door if adopted now this is the definition of islamophobia which labor have adopted and the Tories are opposed to

Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of muslimness or perceived muslimness the definition of of anti-Semitism sort of if you go to the report actually has lots of examples they basically made it the complete mirror of the IH definition of

Anti-semitism so you know just as I think there were problems with that definition of antisemitism I think it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest there may or may not be um problems with the with the definition of of islamophobia which would offered and by that Committee of MPS um it seems more

Specific though what the Tories and are opposed to which is calling islamophobia a form of racism they don’t seem to be happy with that at all and which is why it seems they won’t call what Lee Anderson said racist um Aaron what’s your what’s your position on this I mean

There’s this debate about definitions does it matter if the Tories sort of will will state that what Lee Anderson said was racist instead of just wrong and inappropriate no it’s really stupid I don’t care about definitions um W the Anderson said was inaccurate and he was clearly saying it because of the

Religion of Meed Khan so firstly this idea that islamist control London is patently nonsense disproved not least by the fact that yesterday evening Lee Anderson posted a picture on Twitter of him drinking a pint in London uh generally speaking when islamists control places there aren’t pubs serving

Madie and I think we have this weird Nexus of ideas and labels and enemies that the right tries to confect so we have shring May sadik Khan he’s both Pro lgbtq ultral liberal a libertine people can do what they like London itself is this hot bed of identity politics and

People embracing all kinds of uh different identities and viewpoints and perspectives it’s a modern day Sodom and gamorra and yet at the same time apparently somehow it’s also somewhere where the Sharia and islamist control the most senior elected politician it’s clearly nonsensical it can’t be both of

These things uh but in the increasingly conspiratorial mind world of British conservativism they have to do that because anybody who disagrees with them is an enemy a heretic and must be eliminated evil malevolent uh and so I think that explains a lot of it the politics here look uh Sadi Khan is a

Vanilla liberal who just happens to be a Muslim I mean watch the New Year’s fireworks show every year and and the political content of it Sadi Khan’s probably too liberal for me he’s a very liberal man who who just happens to be I’m very liberal I say that tongue and-

Cheek but the point is I I he couldn’t be more liberal uh so this idea that he’s also in Haw islamist is clearly being said simply because he himself is a Muslim um it’s absurd it’s ridiculous but it betrays something also much deeper with the conservative party

Michael which is a political problem for them which is that they are no longer a party which represents cities in this country you know they have one MP in Birmingham I think they had three in London they’re probably going to lose all of them maybe they’ll keep one so

They are no longer in touch with the cities particularly of England and I finish with this one thing I heard in response to what Lee Anderson said was that millions of conservative voters agree with him well they’re welcome to do that they’re also wrong and they’re also engaging in

Prejudicial rhetoric and behavior um they simply don’t understand what England’s cities look like in the 2020s they’re Center left they’re liberal they’re diverse that does not mean they’re controlled by islamists in fact the politics of these two things couldn’t be further apart I think that point it’s very strange isn’t it what

We’ve got in in England at the moment where you’ve got all of this scaremongering about how London has gone to pot with all of these statements that anyone who lives in London or comes here often would just think are completely ridiculous you got you the only way you

Could possibly believe that London has been taken over by islamists is if you have not been to London for a very very long time so you sort of all of these scare stories for people that don’t live in the place that we’re supposed to be

Scared of very strange in fact a lot of people want to live in London which is why the rent incredibly High um that is actually a story we’re going to get on to later in the show sort of from a different direction of course Lee Anderson is not alone in courting

Islamophobia this past week on Friday former Home Secretary braan penned an article claiming islamists a quote bullying Britain into submission and the day before former prime minister Liz truss said this to Steve Bannon there’s going to be a byelection in the next few weeks and it could be a radical Islamic party winning

That by elction who who you’re saying an Islamic radical party in a couple of weeks in a special election is in one of these Midland urban areas had the roale so it’s an urban area north of it’s the one that’s had the the rape situation yes the grooming situation hang on I don’t

Understand this The Grooming situation Tommy Robinson all these Heroes fought it the rape situation and in that Community you’re going to have a special election and you may have a radical jihadist party send somebody to comments after all that problem cor that is correct so two shocking things right he

References Tommy Robinson calls him a hero right no response whatsoever from Liz trust doesn’t pick up on that or doesn’t think it’s worth commenting on and two that was such a misinformed and misleading representation of of what is going on in rdale right now you know there isn’t a radical islamist party

Which is going to win an election by promising radical islamism right which is you know you saw that sort of Steve Bannon paint this picture ah this is the place where you have Muslim grooming gangs and now you’re getting a radical islamist party who want to install

Radical islamism in this this part of of Britain there was a very clear picture that being painted to Americans the reality of course is that there is a candidate George Galloway who is standing in that constituency because he is sort of against what’s going on in Palestine whatever you think of him you

Know I don’t have much warmth towards George Galloway but he’s basically standing on a completely single-issue campaign in that constituency and all the other parties are sort of a little bit Haywire so it’s possible he will win this is not a radical islamist takeover of a British constituency a Liz trust

Seem to be sort of Happy to to scare Americans about so pretty disgraceful comments from both sella bravman and Liz truss other Tories though clearly want in on the action this was Tori MP Paul Scully speaking to BBC Radio London today do you think the conservative party has an issue with islamophobia or

Anti-muslim sentiment look and it’s a fair question to to to ask what I would say you’re right if you were just look about the um neighborhood comment if you just looking at color of skin um um and uh you know for example when uh a number

Of Indians were coming in the’ 70s and you know my father’s half B me so i’ see you know I’ve seen it firsthand um if it’s about the color of skin that’s one thing you do see why I’m trying to the point I’m trying to make is if you look

At um parts of tower hamlets for example where where people have there are noo areas parts of Birmingham sparkel butts there are noo areas mainly because of doct Tren mainly because of people um sort of using uh their abusing in many ways religion to uh to you know because

It’s not the doctrine of Islam to to to um espouse some of these what some of these people are saying that I think is the concern that needs to be addressed now again this is something that you can only sort of put forward as a theory if

You have never been to the place that they are talking about it always makes me laugh like the idea of tower hamlets as a no-go area for people who aren’t Muslim because the idea you get on no go Zone it’s going to be very very socially conservative there you don’t want to be

There if you’re not a Muslim God you definitely wouldn’t want to be there if you were were gay this is the part of London that I mean it used to have a lot more gay bars than it does now the reason it doesn’t have so many gay bars

Is not because there are any Muslims causing any problems it’s because the rents went up because so many people want to live in Tower hamlets right the idea that Tower hamlets is now some kind of no-o Zone the only reason people are leaving Tower hamlets is because they

Can’t afford to be there anymore right got nothing to do with social conservatism or Islam there are still some good gay bar in Tower hamlets but as I say less than there used to be the problem is not Muslims it’s rents Rising is gentrification when it comes to that

Particular issue um Lee Anderson has also released his response to his suspension which I think pretty much sums up the problem with public discourse right now so he says this I made some comments yesterday that some people thought were divisive politics is divisive and I am just incredibly

Frustrated about the abject failures of the mayor of London sadic Khan Khan called for an immediate ceasefire weeks ago with no conditions while the hostages are still there being held at gunpoint by a terrorist organization hundreds of people have been arrested for racist abuse on these marches and we

Barely heard a peep from the mayor now I don’t think that’s true I don’t think hundreds over hundred people have been arrested but not for racist abuse and hundreds suggest you got over 200 right if these marches were about something less fashionable Sadi Khan would have

Been first to call for them to be cancelled it’s double standards for political benefit but when you think you are right you should never apologize because to do so would be a sign of weakness now as I say this I think summarizes the problem with discourse in

This country at the moment because what Lee Anderson sees as the problem is that you’ve got a lot of protesters who are upset about a genocidal war going on in Gaza in Palestine and the fact that a lot of the people on those protests are Muslims right because they you know they

Feel some camaraderie with the people of Palestine suddenly makes this uh a demonstration of extremism and I’ve been a lot of those demonstrations and they’re the most peaceful familyfriendly demonstrations I think I’ve probably ever been on right I’ve been on demos which are pretty Aggy know the student

Demos back in 2010 the austerity Demos in in 2011 now in those demos you had sort of buildings getting smashed you had people masked up had little you had people fighting cops right no one then was talking about a problem with with violent extremism in the country because

Most of the people protesting were white people right so there wasn’t this huge extremism problem but now suddenly because the people protesting Brown um this is a sign of of a dangerous sort of extremism that we’ve allowed to to build up in this country when these are just a

Bunch of nice families calling for peace they don’t want people to be killed halfway across the world by an ally seems perfectly reasonable to me that not a sign of extremism that’s a sign of moderation right we want peace when did that become a an extremist demand an

Extremist call it’s been 30 days since the international court of justice found it plausible that Israel has been committing genocidal acts in Gaza the court ordered Israel to prevent genocide against Palestinians in Gaza to enable the provision of basic services and humanitarian assistance and to prevent and punish incitement to commit genocide

By officials and Military staff it also demanded that Israel submit a report on its progress in meeting these orders a report that’s due today so Israel will be reporting to the icj today um the evidence suggests the world Court shouldn’t be impressed with what they’ve done since that ruling came now a report

By Human Rights Watch has found Israel is not complying with the order from the icj um and they say this Israel continues to obstruct the provisions of basic services and the entry and distribution within Gaza of fuel and life-saving Aid acts of collective punishment that amount to war crimes and

Include the use of starvation of civilians as a weapon of War fewer trucks have entered Gaza and fewer Aid missions have been permitted to reach Northern Gaza in the several weeks since the ruling than in the weeks preceding it according to the United Nations Office of the coordination of

Humanitarian Affairs of course we’ve witnessed Israel act with increasing ferocity throughout the month of Fe February in the last 30 days alone Israel has killed more than 3 and a half thousand people in Gaza that’s an average of 120 Palestinians killed each day they’ve also attacked civilian infrastructure like hospitals including

Southern gaza’s largest medical complex the NASA Hospital displacement of civilians has also continued with thousands of people forced to leave K Yunis after it came under siege many of them made their way to Rafa on the Egyptian border but the roughly 1 and a half million gazin in Rafa have suffered

Near daily shelling head of Israel’s threatened ground offensive overcrowding poor sanitation and food shortages are also raising the threat of hunger and outbreaks of disease meanwhile in Northern Gaza famine looms anra and the world food program have halted food delivery saying it is now too dangerous for their staff to travel there I’m

Joined Now by Omar Shakir Israel Palestine lead at Human Rights Watch um welcome to the show can you talk us through sort of the key findings you’ve sort of said that you don’t think or you’re organized ization has said that you don’t think Israel is sort of

Complying with the icj orders um why why have you come to that conclusion sure so the icj a month ago said very clearly that Israel was legally bound to ensure basic services and humanitarian Aid are being provided to the people of Gaza on basic Services Israel continues to keep

The switch of electricity off as it’s been doing since October 7th on water uh there are three main lines that enter Gaza VI Israel one remains shut off by Israel another is inoperable because of damage from Israeli air strikes primarily and the third one is operating at 47% capacity there’s virtually no

Clean water for people in Gaza when it comes to trucks before October 7th you had about 500 trucks a day entering before the icj ruling if you look at the period of January 1st to 26 you had about 147 trucks way below 500 that has dropped dramatically Aly since more than

Onethird if you look at the uh next 3 weeks plus compared to the prior ones but if you look specifically at February 9th to 21st basically the last two weeks it’s dropped by more than half the level it was um in January and it’s not just about trucks entering Gaza it’s about um

The trucks moving outside um within outside of fra in all of Gaza and according to a survey of humanitarian organizations talking about challeng since January 26 they basically said Aid is not going outside of RA and so you have a situation in which while 80 plus percent of missions to bring Aid to

Northern Gaza in October through December were going to the north the number is fewer than 20% today so basically Aid is not reaching all parts of Gaza so Israel has not just ignored the icj order it’s intensified some of its repression of Palestinians I don’t think many people in our a audience will

Be surprised that Israel hasn’t sort of looked at this order and said oh brilliant yeah let’s completely change what we’re doing we’ll we’ll completely comply with this right that they are uh you know as as my colleague Aaron just said you’ve got got government Minister saying he schme they don’t seem to be

Taking this particularly seriously but I had kind of assumed that they might get you know slightly better with the world’s sort of eyes now more firmly um on Gaza it can no longer be called ridiculous that this is a genocidal War because the icj have said that’s a

Plausible case and and what your findings seem to suggest yeah as as you’ve said is that there are it’s not only that there are not that there are still not sufficient trucks getting into Gaza but they’ve Fallen now what is your explanation for that how can we make

Sense of the fact that that icj have made this historic ruling and Israel’s Behavior has got even worse look I mean Israel has shown as uh your PRI prior guest said a blatant disregard for the world court and it stems from Decades of impunity of disregard for international

Law and institutions to answer your question the survey that was done of humanitarian organizations over the last month cited several challenges um that have made the situation worse one is the lack of transparency on what can enter via Gaza second is delays and denials at Israeli checkpoints and finally is the

Lack of security for trucks on February 5th the UN said and CNN documented that an aid Convoy had been struck apparently by an Israeli um air strike now Israel cites a lot of excuses for why a isn’t reaching there I expect their report today which isn’t public the court

Hasn’t order to be made public will cite these excuses things like well Hamas is diverting it you know well the UN isn’t processing it far enough well you know there isn’t uh the police in Gaza haven’t been providing security but let’s remember as a matter of international humanitarian law Israel as

The occupying power is charged to meet the needs the population of Gaza and ensure the welfare of the population Israel’s Ground Force have no problem reaching all parts of Gaza their bombs have no problem reaching all parts of Gaza they clearly have the capacity to ensure Aid reaches all parts of Gaza but

They’re not doing it and they’ve been saying very clearly for months that they’re depriving the population of food of water of medicine uh basic necessities for survival as part of a strategy in this conflict which is a war crime it’s starvation as a weapon of War it’s Collective punishment it’s blocking

Of life-saving Aid these are all war crimes could you talk our audience through what this reporting back process means I mean at the time of we spoke to you actually on that day the time of the sort of the icj order was made and one

Of the orders made to Israel was to say you’re going to have to come back and and report on whether or not you are meeting meeting these orders um you know we’re now in that process should we expect the icj to come out and say we’ve

We we’ve looked at this report back and we’re happy with it or we’ve looked at this report back and we’re unhappy with it or is this sort of a negotiation that goes on in private what’s what what happens now right now Israel submit today submitting its report um the court

Did not indicate that that would be made public uh what we know is that South Africa which is the other party in this uh in this hearing will be allowed to see it and will be allowed to comment and respond to it now the court has the option to issue additional provisional

Measures it has the option to issue its own uh ruling or it may not these findings May factor into its the underlying hearing on the merits at the international court of justice so we don’t know exactly what the court will decide to do uh we don’t know whether

This opinion will be made public in one way or another by the parties by the court by somebody else but what we do know is that Israel’s report will be submitted today South Africa will see it have a chance to respond and the court has the power to issue additional

Measures or to issue a comment on the non- enforcement um but but ultimately um it could wait till the underlying he uh hearing on the merits but we believe the duty is now on States the evidence is clear that Israel is not complying with the order and States should use all

Forms of Leverage including sanctions and embargos to press Israel to comply I I don’t want to be overly dramatic but I want to be clear what’s at stake here this is a direct challenge to the rules-based international order we’re talking about uh the world’s Court their orders being ignored the failure to

Ensure compliance undermines the very institutions that are created out of the ashes of World War II to protect civilians and to ensure respect for international law nothing less than the Integrity of that order is what’s at stake have we seen any developments there so I mean it’s been 30 days since

The igj sort of put forward its orders are we seeing any movements from sort of States governments organizations to sort of distance themselves from what Israel are doing or you know at the extreme and to be applying sanctions to Israel look um there’s been some movement uh you

Know a court in the Netherlands for example issued an order um uh that the government is now appealing to stop the provision of some uh support Military Support to Israel there are ongoing legal proceedings that have either been initiated or are being challenged or

Appealed in one way in the UK in the US um and in Germany obviously there have been statements from governments some have been a bit stronger than statements we’ve seen before but ultimately they’ve not been enough and you know we see every day scores of bodies of Palestinians uh you know continue to

Build up more than 3,400 Palestinians killed just since the courts um order so it’s not enough we need World action to prevent atrocities we’ve seen some shifts here and there I mean uh even from the US side in terms of the ra potential military incursion warnings that Israel not falling um not

If what it would mean if Israel went forward but even as we debate we need to keep our focus on RAF because of what’s at stake there any sort of uh ground incursion uh when there’s no safe place to go in Gaza would be catastrophic and unlawful but we’re not seeing enough

Done before we begin this section it contains discussion um of suicide an active duty member of the US Air Force has died after setting himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington DC 25-year-old Aaron bushnel could be heard shouting free Palestine as he burned to death bushnel live streamed these

Moments as he approached the Israeli Embassy I am an active duty member of the United States Air Force and I will no longer be complicit in genocide I’m about to engage in an extreme active protest but compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their

Colonizers it’s not extreme at all this is what our ruling class has decided will be Normal we decided the video of of Bushnell self imulation was too graphic to show here but it has been viewed millions of times on on Twitter and this was Aaron Bushnell’s final post on Facebook so he tweeted not tweeted sorry posted this many of us like like to ask ourselves

What would I do if I was alive during slavery or the Jim Crow south or apartheid what would I do if my country was committing genocide the answer is you’re doing it right now um in a separate incident in December last year a protester set themselves on fire

Outside an Israeli consulate office now in that instance the protester and aard were hospitalized with Burns but both um both survived in that instance now many media organizations seem to be struggling and with how to report this case there are understandably lot of sensitivities when it comes to reporting

On suicide at the same time Bush’s actions fall within a tradition of of protest and self-sacrifice that spans from Buddhists in Vietnam to the protest that sparked the Arab Spring um Aaron how should we talk about this I mean obviously suicide an incredibly sensitive issue we’re often you know

Said you know you shouldn’t it shouldn’t be glamorized um but at the same time this is an act of of protest and you know should kind of respect this man’s intentions he he meant this to be an act of protest or we can you know it seems

He did I mean what do you make of this situation what can we say about it well I thought his words were incredibly powerful I mean obviously the act itself is extraordinary as a supreme act really of protest and descent but the words he said prior to that I thought gave it

Such important context and of course people will try to will try to dismiss sord to undermine or discredit what he’s done because of mental health issues or or whatever but I think those words says prior to the ACT clearly underscore his political commitments and his reasoning and he’s talking really in

The language of of anti-imperialism and he says that our Elites and I don’t think he means just the United States I think he means really the entire West our Elites are committed happy with these levels of Destruction this is what they have in in

In mind for all of us uh words to that effect paraphrasing and that doesn’t mean of course that the whole world is going to like G and they’ll be saying that but what is the case and this is where there are clear connections to for instance the protests against Vietnam

The best part of half a century ago Michael uh is that or more than half a century ago is that people outside the global core outside Europe outside North America outside the West the global North are viewed as less important their lives are viewed as less valuable less sacred and therefore immeasurably more

Destruction and death uh can be placed upon them before anybody really cares or before any politicians certainly risk their career and to use a hack needed kind of analog I mean that’s perfectly obvious in how our political class has responded to what’s going on in Ukraine

To what’s going on in Gaza that’s not a frivolous throwaway point I mean it’s a very obvious contrast there and he’s right to say that the events that we’ve seen really since October are in a way our future unless people stand up to ensure otherwise as your previous guest

Mentioned this is a test now for what the global Community wants for its future whether it’s possible to Simply discard and dismiss what the icj demands of a state when it’s being um presented with allegations potentially of genocide H and I I find an interesting analog here to Israel’s development of nuclear

Weapons that was clearly at odds with nonproliferation sign that treaty but there was a treaty which was trying to minimize proliferation of nuclear weapons around the world Israel completely um ignored that uh other countries in the region therefore try and build their own domestic nuclear weapons programs Iraq Iran you can say

Well that’s nonsense Israel deserves them they face existential challenges you can say all of that it’s clearly at odds with ideas of nonproliferation they developed those weapons and that technology in secret and they only told the world about it once they had it so that should tell you

Something about the fact they knew what they were doing was wrong and in a way that sabotaged efforts at nonproliferation and I think we’re seeing really an active sabotage now um at the level of international law but far more so far more so because of course any desport or authoritarian can

Look at how Israel has simply uh dismissed the icj hey schag and they can say well if they can do it why can’t I and this is really I think the central takeaway from Israel um Gaza if you’re not interested in political Affairs or you think well I am interested I care

But what can I do about it you’re welcome to have that opinion what I would say is that the political consequence of this will play out for decades maybe a century in so much as the architecture we’ve had since 1945 not perfect far from it but something certainly an improvement on what went

Before for uh is being rapidly undermined and so what this person did was an extraordinary Act of sacrifice entirely politically coherent and I question anyone who says that actually this was an act of somebody suffering from mental ill health um we shouldn’t see it as the Supreme Act of political

Descent that’s certainly my read on it lots of people in the comments saying rest in power Aaron Bushnell I mean absolutely when I say you know I didn’t we didn’t want to show you know the act on this because I feel like it should be you know your choice whether to seek

That out but it is both distressing but incredibly powerful so you sort of hear this man’s final words um as you say when he’s sort of making the ultimate sacrifices just to say free Palestine free Palestine free Palestine and you can sort of hear the I mean what must be

The sort of unbelievable pain um he he was going through um we’ll we’ll leave this there but yes um um I of course concur with with everyone I can see in the comments saying saying rest in power to Aaron Bush now Charlotte Church is a singer who has sold over 10 million

Records worldwide she’s also politically active and has recently organized a coral event in support of Palestine Jerusalem but we together We now that looked like a lovely event to me for a very good cause but not everyone is happy if you Google Charlotte Church and news at the moment this is what you’ll find so um the BBC Charlotte Church denies anti-Semitism after Pro Palestine chant and the independent Charlotte Church denies

River to the Sea song is anti-Semitic and the time Charlotte Church defends singing from The River To The Sea and the telegraph Charlotte Church Under Fire for leading Choir in rendition of from The River To The Sea GB news Charlotte Church slammed as she leads a hund strong Pro Palestine choir singing

From The River To The Sea and in LBC Charlotte Church slammed so again the same verb for singing controversial from The River To The Sea chant at Pro Palestine charity concert God they really could all be written by AI could they’re not very um uh original any of

Them um the HooHa has largely um been spread by the right-wing campaign group campaign against anti-Semitism who told the independent this at Best Charlotte Church has been toned deaf but at wor she is is using the voice for which she is so well known to F the Flames of

Hatred you cannot stoop lower than using your stardom to teach kids to sing extremist lyrics in a village hall the controversy is mainly about the phrase from The River To The Sea being used in one of the songs the daily maale writes this footage has emerged showing how the

38-year-old star led a choir in the protest chanted a sing for palestin event in Cil South Wales the Welsh singer draped in a kefia scarf in solidarity with those in Palestine was also caught singing stop the occupation as she attended the event at the bedwar workman’s Hall on Saturday night

Charlotte Church joins me now thank you so much for speaking to us um you’ve been caught red-handed according to the Daily Mail how does that feel I suppose um I don’t know just just watching you know your your previous story it just everything just feels so heightened and

So deeply emotional to me right now um and to be honest you know I hate the idea that anybody thinks that I am at all anti-semitic or trying to um make things more divisive uh but I stand by everything that we sang on Saturday it was really beautiful it was such a

Beautiful event it was so sweet it was so humble it was people in intergenerational choir from all over the country um it was it was it was deeply it was a deeply spiritual experience for me and uh I would do it again 100 times and plan to going through those headlines

You know if I were you the one that would really annoy me because you got lots of these sort of right-wing websites and you can imagine sort of getting criticism from these right-wing websites but the BBC headline Charlotte Church denies anti-Semitism after Pro Palestinian chart criticism it’s sort of

Like it’s phrased in this language of of neutrality but it’s put your name next to anti-Semitism Charlotte Church denies anti-Semitism I suppose I mean is it that BBC headline that annoys you the most uh I think the one that annoyed me most actually was hang ahead in shame uh

Because that’s really deeply loaded and and I feel has sort of more connotations for how uh how protesters or activists or even women um should be feeling or should be carrying themselves should be behaving um so that was the one that uh that that I found sort of uh most prickly but you

Know as I say it’s like I mean as as far as the chant goes you know it’s a it’s a really powerful chant that every single activist that I have met every March that I’ve been on in every context that I’ve ever heard it sang has always been

For the uh for the human rights and for the equal Liberty of Palestinian people as well as Israeli people on the lands of Palestine and Israel and that is what I’ve always taken it and understood it to mean and that’s what I think it does

Mean um and to to sort of for anybody who is sort of taking from that genocidal intent towards Israel or about there not being a state of Israel I think is is misguided for it’s not that’s not what the chant means and uh yeah and I think it’s there’s just such

Double speak going on currently um in in all in all areas um around uh this this conflict or this genocide more like what’s what’s happening and it’s it’s it really boggles the brain um and so I I feel like I’m just trying to stay in the feelings you know in the emotions of

What’s Happening um and it’s deeply emotional and and I feel like um what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to call people to to to engage to to watch the videos to understand what’s happening but really to engage their hearts their emotions not just their sort of mind and their

Critical capacity this is you know this is about essentially the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent people and the slaughter of children what is happening in Gaza is a hell on Earth a hell on Earth is being created people are being purposefully starved and and it’s emotional you know

And so I’m doing whatever I can with you know using my skill set to try and help people understand help people connect with the emotions and connect with um you know the the the Deep Injustice of of what’s going on and using song which has always been a un ifier singing

Together it is one of the most unifying things that we can do so my My Hope and My Hope in all of my activism around Palestine has been to um to tr to try and do whatever I can to to bring more healing bring more Union bring more understanding and but

But but also just to keep at its core The Liberation of the Palestinian people this is what decades of activists have been fighting for it was really humbling for me on Saturday I was singing with a lot of the members of the K Kon choir um and they have been deeply involved in

The Palestinian struggle for for decades they went over to Palestine lots of the songs that they taught all of the choir were in Arabic in Welsh they were South African anti-apartheid songs with the lyrics amended to be um pertinent to Palestine so I feel I feel deeply

Humbled and deeply grateful to have been a part of such a beautiful event with such incredible activists that I I just felt completely enamored and indebted to you sound like you’re very much taking this in your stride I think many of our audience will be you know very impressed

With your your integrity here you’re sort of being smeared I think by by many you know your name appearing in headlines sort of all of the major Publications in the UK and you’re not being sort of deterred from from taking part in in activism such as this I

Mean I I suppose I want to ask you to sort of talk about the people who might be deterred so obviously you’re a person in the public eye You’ got a music career and for for many people the idea of seeing your name appear in all these headlines next to the word anti-Semitism

Would absolutely um prevent them from doing this again because they just think oh this is too much I can’t deal with this I mean are are you in contact with sort of people in the Arts who do feel that they’re not in a position where they can

Sort of um brush off headlines such as this and so avoid publicly displaying pal solidarity sorry W with Palestinians I think that you know there are a lot of people who feel that the risk is too great um who have a lot to

Lose and I get it you know I am it’s not it’s not been a pleasant day for me you know it’s not just water off a deck’s back I I really I’ve really had a very uncomfortable day it’s not pleasant and um yeah but however my my feeling I feel

Nothing has ever affected me more than what has been happening in the last couple of months the the struggle that I’ve been seeing that I’ve been witnessing the loss of life the death um the destruction um the in some cases like really evil actions of IDF

Soldiers um and for me this is the greatest spiritual um uh like activation and and quest of of certainly of of my lifetime which um I will not be deterred from like I I feel so unbelievably like to my core motivated to do as much as I possibly

Can uh particularly to to have a ceasefire like that is that is really all so many of us are calling for like please like whatever the the The Wider connotations the complexities like please just stop killing innocent people people stop killing children um it’s not a fringe opinion and it shouldn’t be a

Fringe opinion when you’ve got the highest court in the land who are pretty much looking like this is definitely a genocide um and it makes me it makes me think of a quote by Carl Young um uh which has been like just just with me for for the last couple of months

Which is uh the spirit of evil is a negation of the life force by fear and only boldness can Deliver Us From Fear And if the risk is not taken the meaning of life is violated and that’s how I feel about it really really powerful I my my last

Question I’m going to ask I think on behalf of my mom um so she is both in a community choir in East London and has been going on all the Palestine demos she can um you know find time to go on so I am sure she would want to know how

Can she combine her two interests um lots of people in community choirs lots of people very passionate about Palestine you going to be going on tour can they find these songs somewhere online absolutely I think I I’ll be working with C Kon and our our choir that we formed our wonderful choir which

I’m I’m so grateful to all of those beautiful people from across the UK who came together but yes well we’re going to figure out where we go next and how we make this singing for Liberation a bigger movement because it is at its core it is peaceful it is joyful it is

Powerful because uh remember um everything is energy you know everything in this whole existence is energy and frequency and sound has a big big role to play in it people have been singing for Freedom all over the world since time began and so I think it’s it’s a

Very powerful um form of protest which I am just absolutely um Overjoyed to be a part of to be honest I’ll just read you a super chat from Joseph Bates Before I Let You Go huge respect to Charlotte for not backing down and summing everything up perfectly I do concur um Charlotte

Thank you so much um for joining us on Nara media this evening thank you so much and I also want to say to you guys at Navara media me and my husband and my my teenagers are massive fans of Navara media and we’re very grateful for all

That you do oh thank you so much that is very very um meaningful and special to hear so thank you for that bold and bankrupt is a British Vlog Channel its host is Benjamin rich and he’s gotten millions of views filming himself traveling across some of the most

Dangerous places in the world they include the Daran Gap known of the most the world’s most dangerous jungle and the Fallout Zone from Chernobyl but his latest video was filmed closer to home this is Benjamin rich in Plymouth center of a British City a major British City

Homeless people just sleep in rough you can’t help but think when you see things like this that Britain’s Glory Days Britain’s best days are so long gone and so far behind us and the truth is I can’t see how we ever get them back look

At the state of this place and look at this the Great Western Hotel a beautiful old building built probably in Victorian times look at it we used to build things like this magnificent buildings and look at the squalor and what it’s been reduced to look it’s even got up here a

Mosaic the Spanish Armada leaving Spain to come be defeated by the British look at it this place the amount of money spent on it and now just destroyed and well probably full of homeless people and drug users what a sad sad State of Affairs for this once great nation it’s

A very very interesting concept for videos this is a guy as I say who’s often sort of going to places which are you know traditionally fought of as desolate so the Fallout Zone from Chernobyl I think he spends lots of time in of post Soviet spaces and then as I

Say sort of in dangerous jungles sort of using that form of the travel log um to talk about Britain’s declining towns um I thought was very interesting um so that was him in Plymouth um he then looked at a number of other derel buildings in Plymouth and before trying

To get a trip to another Seaside town but look at all the places we can go to here from Plymouth we can go to gunis Lake sounds lovely penans London Paddington but no we’re going to a place called Western super mayare that’s going to buy ticket Western super mayare oneway ticket is

5010 and that’s off peak is it50 10 yeah flipping EG what’s an on Peak I’m not spending 50 Quid to get to Western super May it’s a flipping ripoff the ticket pric is like that much be one reason British provincial towns and cities are so run down if they’re badly connected

They’re less attractive places to live um after getting a lift to Western Superman which was in worse Nick than Plymouth Ben Rich ended up in Harden near Sunderland and this is what he discovered look at this what they’ve done here to smarten up the streets of abandoned buildings over there you can

See that house obviously abandoned number 66 and here’s abandoned two and I thought actually it was some blinds in the window but it’s not it’s a picture of blinds in a window and look at this it’s not a real door it’s a picture of a door I suppose the council want to kind

Of make the place look a bit better and more up here look up here this is so freaky the council I suppose to make the place look better have put these fake windows and fake doors on the buildings so it doesn’t look totally derel and abandoned look at this

That’s not a curtain that’s a picture of a curtain they stole your bike they stole my bike well literally they they took all the ignition off it so that I couldn’t ride it right and then the four attempts to take that and on the fifth attempt they took it and then I got

Another one and we’ve got yeah five attempts on that bike but I put all sorts of motion senses and little things what about burglaries anyone tried burgling you um I’ve had the doors banged a few times girl over there got attacked oh my God it’s really not a

Nice area I spent most of that interview at the end there trying to distracted by working out whether or not the various windows and doors we were looking at were real or fake um Aaron this is a sort of topic you’ve been talking about for a while um the decline of town

Center and towns in general outside of London and the southeast um interesting this has gone so viral I think sort of 2 million views of that one about those those windows and doors that weren’t real um what do you make of this now becoming sort of a topic for for

Vloggers well it was a matter of time I mean you can see with your own eyes how bad the situation is if you look at um cities by GDP per capita per person you take away London Michael we don’t really have any rich cities in this country uh

Major cities I mean Edinburgh is very wealthy but places like Leeds Newcastle Leicester Southampton Cardiff exitor these are not rich they’re not rich places the cities in Poland are wealthier than them on a on a per per person basis PPP so using the domestic currency rather than nominal GDP using

Dollars we are not a rich country we have a very wealthy Mega City and and we have a poor country bolted onto it with some enclaves of prosperity there are of course some places which are incredibly rich in this country uh but it’s not as widespread as people like to think and

Even in the southeast of England Michael nothing as bad as that the north east by the way has major problems I think its GDP perhe head is around 25,000 but even that obscures quite a lot because of course you still have quite affluent parts of the Northeast parts of Newcastle parts of County

Durham where Dominic Cummings from and then you have places like that you know somewhere like we just saw there a moment ago you probably has a GDP perad of of less than 20,000 pounds um you know it’s it’s probably poorer than somewh like not probably it will be

Poorer than somewh like Croatia uh it’ll be as poor as many of the poorest parts of Eastern Europe and you take away then the state you take away you know the NHS or the public pension system in terms of in terms of wealth being created by the private sector it’s minimal it is

Completely dysfunctional and broken far worse even than East Germany um in the now integrated of course um German Republic It’s a massive massive problem Michael and I do think our political class don’t really understand the scale of it because of course they’re in London now many of them represent seats

Not in London but when everybody who matters everybody who you listen to everybody with status everybody who can Dole out favors is inside the M25 people outside it um inside the M25 rather people outside it start to matter less and less and less and I think frankly this country I mean particularly

England um has to go back to First principles we have to completely discard and get rid of all of these nonsensical ideas we’ve told ourself ourselves for decades from really post-imperial Grande when it comes to foreign policy stop invading countries we’re still you know bombing right now parts of Yemen

Alongside the US just stop it right we can’t police the Red Sea uh when you know we we we have high streets in the condition that we do you know that is just a a stupid um misguided view of our role in the world I think the same applies to nuclear weapons personally

But if you have nuclear weapons you probably don’t want to spend so much on a conventional Army you certainly don’t need aircraft carriers which are costing three four billion a pop and then they don’t even bloody work so I think that’s the first thing we have to do here is

Actually get rid of all the the nonsense that we tell ourselves about who we are and that includes London and that’s why I think we should move the capital city outside of London move it to Derby move it to stoke move it right into the middle of England I know it’s the UK

Capital but right into the middle of England at the very least of course if it was the middle of the UK it would be really high up the population centers of the South I I think should be waited for this and and the nor Northwest of England so somewhere like Darby would be

Very good and I think if you’ve got a capital city in Darby then it’s very hard for politicians to lie to themselves about the state of the country because they can’t go to Bond Street or Mayfair or sh ditch or dich or Soho and tell themselves everything is

Hunky dory they will see the reality of the situation and the reality is very very bad thank you Aaron for joining me tonight and thank you to all you for tuning in come back tomorrow night for another live stream from 6 p.m. you’ve been watching nvar media good night