Adam Hill is a nine figure CEO, World Championship Qualifying Triathlete, Peak Performance Coach, Bestselling Author, International Speaker, and host of The Flow Over Fear Podcast.
As a CEO of a 4th generation family business, Adam has led his 100 year old company through economic change, cultural change, and leadership change on the path to long term sustainability. Leading a team, or even just ourselves, through significant transformation takes courage.
In this episode, we cover:
🔑The Importance of Cultivating Friendships
🔑Overcoming Impostor Syndrome and Taking Incremental Steps
🔑Getting Curious about Negative Self-Talk
🔑Learning to Love Yourself Incrementally
🔑And so much more
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Tribe of Millionaires Podcast by GoBundance is the podcast for healthy wealthy generous people who choose to live epic lives. Each week we connect with featured guest and GoBundance members to bring you the best in our community. #gobundance #tribeofmillionaires #grablifebig
Before we can get vulnerable with anyone about anything should we be vulnerable about absolutely everything to everybody no I don’t think so I mean there’s things that we should keep inside and and keep to a trusted small few in my opinion I always love the phrase that
I’ve heard in the past which is share from your scars not your open wounds if you’re still struggling with some kind of trauma you know maybe it’s not the time to share that on an Instagram story but it’s time to maybe lean into your group of trusted yes Community hi
Everyone welcome to the happiness Explorer podcast C I’m your host Mike Duffy and I’m excited to welcome Adam Hill today and Adam is president of a fourth generation family Chemical Company that’s celebrating a hundred years as a business in the west as a podcast called flow over fear with 175
OS to date available on all the major platforms and his personal brand is helping people overcoming fear and finding The Light Within and bringing them out uh which I think is a fabulous mission in life he’s currently in Denver originally from San Clemente he’s got a couple kids a 16-year-old daughter
13-year-old son he’s been married for 20 years and delighted to have you on the show Adam thanks for being on the podcast oh it’s my pleasure Mike thank you so much for reaching out and having me on absolutely so to start things off Adam completed the wisdom diagnostic so
That’s our questionnaire based on the seven happiness themes that come up across all the seven Great wisdom traditions and Adam had some high scores across a number of these dimensions and also some opportunity areas so we’re going to explore what’s working for him how he got there and where he’s going
Next so with that we’re just going to jump right into it and we’re going to start with the the strengths that came out of the diagnostic So Adam you have very high scores for overcoming and learning from adversity so I’m curious what have you experienced and what have
You learned from the adversity in your life yeah so probably mostly comes from grew up with an anxiety disorder that was somewhat you know there’s there’s a lot of elements to that anxiety disorder generalized anxiety disorder is pretty big but there’s a lot of elements of
Just living in fear uh when I was younger you know self-inflicted kind of traumas and then ultimately leading into alcoholism which dominated my life for uh more than a decade from the time I was about you know 20 years old until I was uh about 32 and finally got sober in
32 uh in in when I was 32 not in32 it wasn’t I wasn’t it wasn’t in 32 you know um I was 32 years old it was 2012 and that’s when I got sober and so there was a lot of adversity that came with that
And there was a lot of pain and Trauma again self-inflicted that led to you know my getting sober and specifically it was a DUI accident you know that landed me in jail for a night and a lot of legal issues around that um but that
Was my bottom so to speak that led to a lot of healing and a lot of overcoming of that actually it was the first time where I stopped really fighting against the fear that I had and trying to suppress it or drowned in addiction it was the first time I stepped up and
Tried to and started facing it I did that through a community you know Alcoholics Anonymous for me and that Community helped me to get sober and it also taught me a lot about overcoming you know th those things in our lives that that are toxic that don’t serve us
But only serve to magnify the pain that we might have and uh so that was kind of that first experience of overcoming adversity and that led to a big transformation that really led me down the path of of starting to embrace fear in my life as a signal to where I could
Grow uh becoming an Iron Man triathlete you know becoming a leader in business and and those types of things so that’s kind of where that adversity comes from the obstacle is the way right absolutely 100% believe that it’s not always painless I mean most of the time it’s
Not but I would say but certainly hasn’t been but it’s fulfilling no absolutely you said some stuff that really resonates with me so I um I’m with you in the AA Fellowship I have a couple more I’ll stack on of fellowships and I rever 12ep program I I think one of the
Real opportunities is what can people that aren’t in a 12ep room really draw from that experience and I like you found the community to be just extraordinary the ability to get super vulnerable super transparent to be seen in fact I saw some data recently that in terms of relationships the highest
Driver of relationship satisfaction is being seen and we tend to wear masks in life I certainly wear a mask all of my life in as a corporate executive and 12 steps allowed me to start to take that mask off really be seen in community and find that Community was there and and
Community didn’t reject me community in fact the more vulnerable I get that The Closer the relationships God the more the community could help me so that that aspect of community really really resonates with me the the other aspect you mention is is a bottom which isn’t a
Common term outside of 12 stops we all have these challenges in life uh the Japanese call them Keno moments moments of temporary difficulty and you can either come back to baseline or with the right ingredients You Can level up and I heard that in what you were talking
About my recipe or experience with leveling up and from a from Life difficulty is community and support you mentioned that and also doing the work having something that you’re leaning into to about personal growth that’s going to expand you so that’s kind of my my reaction I think you’re on the right
Themes is there anything else from 12st steps that you think is would be helpful you know for people to know or do that that aren’t in the rooms yeah my experience with 12ep was really really integral of course with getting sober I couldn’t have done it without that
Higher power and all that all that stuff and I know that the higher power is the key element of is one of the primary elements of 12-step program you know you have to find that power that’s greater than yourself to restore you to sanity but you know and that and that’s a
Really important element in my life is is God and U you know I’m I am a Christian I believe in Jesus Christ that’s my uh Savior and that’s my experience with a spiritual higher power within that Community one thing that I found over a series of years is for me
Personally and this isn’t for everybody but in order to stay not not just to stay sober but really hold myself accountable in sobriety and make sobriety a part of my ongoing identity of who I am and transcend that desire to drink I had to almost step outside of
The community in the sense of being open about my alcoholism in the way that I am in the way that I you know express myself on my show or or in the world and and the fact that I’m open about that in the world you know it certainly breaks
That anonymity for me but for me what I found was that anonymity kind of became a bit of a crutch for me to say like I can keep one foot in this disease in a way because I don’t have to necessarily tell everyone that I have this problem
But by opening up it freed me up a little bit more to say that this is part of my identity and that for me has worked um but again that may not be for everyone and you know the anonymity piece is very important but to the
Spirit of I think your question of you know what elements maybe outside of of AA has helped I I guess it’s an extension of that vulnerability outside of those rooms into the broader community of the world being willing to share that experience that I’ve had as an addict or an alcoholic openly
Regardless of how people might feel about that towards me and that’s been really freeing for me I think that’s such a vital point and I think could be a benefit to everyone so vulnerability is a superpower and but let’s toggle around that a little bit should we be
Vulnerable with everyone we meet what do you think like I said for for my from my experience it it took a few years before that I had to work in the program to to actually be you know vulnerable outside of it and I think in order before we can
Get vulnerable with anyone about anything and and I guess I’ll I’ll step out more broadly and say in my opinion should we be vulnerable about absolutely everything to everybody no I don’t think so I mean there’s things that we should keep inside and and keep to a trusted
Small few until we’re ready or until and maybe we’re never ready with certain things in my opinion I always love the the phrase that I’ve heard in the past which is share from your share from your scars not your open wounds you know if you’re still struggling with some kind
Of trauma you know maybe it’s not the time to share that on an Instagram story but it’s time to maybe lean into your group of trusted yes community and that trusted Community for me is is anything that where a group of trusted people meaning people that you can trust are
Are all working toward a same or a common goal or some kind of goal for us it’s like sobriety or and and that there’s an element of mentorship in there like a sponsor and there’s an element of cohort in there where where it’s a group of people that are
Essentially in the same Journey as you are at the same time and I think those are the elements that you really need to look for when you’re in those open wounds when you have something that you can share that can maybe help somebody I think that may be a time where you can
Express or act or or very carefully you know think about and this about being vulnerable but that work for me that that idea of like actually being vulnerable about my addiction with and opening that up with everyone that wasn’t just something I came up with I
Mean I worked with I’ve been with a therapist for you know 15 years who I talked with her about it I talked with my community of AA about it and you know there were some people that said no this is you know this is this and ultimately
Made my decision based on on how that looked and what I felt was best for me absolutely I think you said all some some really important stuff there so vulnerability about everything to everyone not advised right I love what you said about the the scars not the
Open wounds in in 12 steps we talk about the experience strength and hope of people that are have gone beyond where we are now and and it’s riveting when we’re suffering and we see someone that has the same starting point but has been able to advance and what are they
Teaching from they’re teaching from the scars that have healed and the path that they’ve taken so I think that’s great advice I think for me there’s also a bit of a value screening is this person healthy enough to really let down my guard um do they have a growth mindset
Are they empathetic are they supportive I think most people are there are some narcissists and sociopaths out there but it’s not the majority and then you said uh cohorts and on the same Journey which I absolutely love I think when you develop trust and you’re all heading in
The same direction then it is in incredibly fertile to work together and ancient wisdom has all sorts of recommendations on this I’m going to read something from roomie who was a Sufi Mystic he said stay with friends who support you talk with them about how
You are doing and how they are doing and keep your practices together he also said talk with them about sacred texts now for him that meant the kurran but for us it might be a book club it might be the 12 and 12 and 12 steps what I’ve found is when you
Get a group of people together and you’re able to focus on the same direction and maybe the same content and you just start to pick up you flying formation you can do a lot of work on your own but when you have those kindred spirits and you’re working in a cohort
Not only it’s been my experience you get further but there’s also another benefit one of my my favorite philosophers uh that I I cited on the podcast was a guy named epicurus and his major was friendship he said the most important ingredient of happiness throughout lifetime time was friends and
Particularly friends that went deep On Life’s most important questions so when you find your little tribe when you get vulnerable when you’re progressing together not only are you developing and growing but you’re establishing these deeper bonds of friendship and Trust you’re growing friendships at a much more nourishing level in addition to
Personal development so in my mind that bad news good news bad news is the work never stops in my study of the great Sages no one ever got there and stayed there maybe Jesus Christ cuz he was he was a special case but everyone else had
To do the work so that’s the bad news you got to keep progressing the good news is when you are progressing with others and developing these nourishing friendships that is a joy I I so much agree and and before I got sober I was always I I was never anti-community but
I was antisocial or I was um and a lot of that came from fear in my life like I was afraid to get into communities I was afraid of being a newbie like you know the newcomers from AA it’s just like you know feel intimidated when you’re there
That was you know my experience in almost any Community I want to be a part of so it was kind of like just that Soul you know mover through life of just trying to bust it through on my own and so having that perspective of both of
Just like you know never of of being completely isolated alone and then like finding these communities now it’s just like oh my gosh you know it’s it’s night and day it’s just such an Community is just the number one first most important thing in my opinion of to emotional
Healing or personal devel velopment or advancing a cause whatever it may be yes I think where this is a really important theme for everyone is cultivation of friendships I think is more important now than ever than it’s ever been in our society and the reason I say that is
Adam have you heard of the Friendship recession I have not no Google it it’s a thing so they’ve been tracking the quality of friendship for a number of years in the last 25 years there’s been a significant drop in the quality and quantity of friendships so some of the
Data like people that have 10 close friends has dropped 33% in the last 25 years men are more affected but women are also affected the number of American men without a close friend without a single close friend has jumped five times in the last 24 years
From 3% to 15% and also affects women but somehow men are differentially affected so there’s a lot of theories on why this could be the case you know the the internet certainly came online during this period you know that theory is that we’re getting atomized you know
We’re getting more insulated we get our information in in very narrow digital pipes we don’t have as much opportunity for the full bandwidth conversations to really connect with each other but but I think it’s really important for people to know this that whatever it is something in society seems to be
Shifting us away from Friendship yet your experience in my experience um is it’s so critically important so I tend to take a real active view on this which is I have more courage and I kiss more frogs and courage I think was implicit in what you’re talking about it’s a real
Leap to be get vulnerable and to take a risk but when you get vulnerable it establishes a temperature and a resonant frequency for the conversation that is irresistible for most people right when I coach small group work if I get one person to go deep everyone follows so we
Have that opportunity to first know that we need to lean forward and push against whatever in society is pushing us against friendship and we need to take shots on goal and cultivate those friends in our lives not only the quantity but the quality by taking them deeper to what’s most important so we’re
Fighting the against the Friendship recession yes indeed I mean that’s one of the things you know especially since joining some of these cohorts and these groups that are very specific towards you know being in the going in the same direction so to speak I you know we have
Something in in gobundance which you know we’re we’re both members you know I’m a member of gobundance which has this life happiness index and I’m always finding now in my life which never was the case beforehand that my friendships area in in there is always a 10 I mean
Because I can’t perceive it getting better I right now I just feel like I have enough friends that I can lean in deep with variety of different things that it’s it’s so important to have those key points of uh and I like how you said it too that like almost where
You lean in with courage you have the courage to kiss the Frog I think he said and but that also opens you up to some really powerful relationships in my opinion that’s been my experience absolutely and yeah I want to Echo what Adam said so um this men’s organization
Goet were a part of they have a number of tools to assess your life and one’s called the life happiness index it goes across a number of dimensions of your life and you score it on a a scale of 1 to 10 and we talk about it and it gives
A good full bandwidth conversation about someone’s life and we share that with each other and and help each other my life happiness index has dropped two full points in the last six months which is huge so I I’m encountering a lot of turbulence in my life almost unprecedented and yet by leaning in
Toship it is softened the blow and is helping me to accelerate out of a bottom so much more profoundly I really tested the limits of transparency and vulnerability over the last six months I I thought I was always transparent and vulnerable turns out there’s levels to
It that I was still keeping some things to myself who would want to hear about me suffering who would want to hear about these recurrent thoughts that were really scary you know no one so I got to keep them to myself as we like to say in
12 steps you’re only as sick as your secrets right fundamentally had to put it out there to my trusted friends and it was a real experiment to just keep letting it go and being ruthlessly honest with my friends and I was stunned my conditioning was you know they would
Run away they would reject me they would say you know we’re we’re raised as men don’t come with a problem without a solution well sometimes you can’t find the solution by yourself sometimes the best thing you can do is share from your heart the problem you’re facing and let
Yourself fall into the support of a trusted friendship because I can’t see myself clearly at all I need the support of friends and their perspectives to get to me where I want to go so uh Community has been saving my butt um the past six months for sure I’m well I’m really glad
To hear that and U glad to hear that you’re finding the same experience with Community you know my sponsor once said and this is one of the first things he said to me that it doesn’t get easier it gets better in the in the scope of sobriety and that’s that’s been my
Experience things have not gotten easier lots of challenges lots of uh really really difficult things have happened in the last 12 12 years but overall of that everything has gotten better and Community is one of the primary reasons that’s the case that’s awesome and one other thing I just want to sprinkle in
Here is what’s your opportunity to serve others so time honored pieces of wisdom again from 12 steps is when you’re suffering serve even if you don’t have your marbles together even if your marbles are completely scattered start serving others when we’re in someone else’s head
It it helps to get us out of our own head it also just helps us um s service is such a consistent theme across the wisdom Traditions to me it’s one of the two tent poles that comes up from the ancient research from the ancient wisdom
First of all true self and we’re going to go that as the next topic how do I feel inside and then secondly the benevolence and relationships I would say that one of the opportunities we have is when we have those scars we’ve gone through them is to be able to reach
Out to others and to offer them and to serve others and Rory Vaden is the CEO of a company called brand builders you ever hear those guys Adam yeah in fact I’m a client a very hey client yeah well plug for brand builders their net promoter score is excellent so they help
People build their personal brand and and go far beyond that and I’m a big fan of Rory Vaden he was on Ed myets podcast and he had this gem he said you are best physician to help the person that you used to be 100% And I think we all have that in
Our lives one of the things that fascinates me is you know the Buddha said all life is suffering and went on to describe how to get past that but if you just stick with that some people really kind of Rebel at that like what what does that mean uh I don’t feel that
And I think what he’s talking talking about is little ass suffering big ass suffering we all know I lose a job I lose a parent you know something major happens and and we get through that what I think the Buddha was getting at is this little s suffering that we have an
Inner critic inside there we have a negativity bias inside life can be harder than we than it appears on the outside but we don’t share it we don’t let people see that and it’s such an opportunity because we’re all suffering um Socrates said be nice to everyone you
Meet everyone is fighting some type of battle and the ability to really develop deep compassion and really see that battle that people are fighting that’s the first step and then second just blowing to that if if you have those scars that you’ve healed from finding other people
To serve them be that person that you know as as Rory Vaden mentioned that you’ve overcome and you can lead them there I think it’s such a powerful opportunity we all have yeah I I 100% agree and that’s one of the actually one of the first messages I heard from Rory
Vaden that made me want to be want to join brand builders and made me question my brand at that time and like what how I was serving in the world because I was thinking much smaller in terms of how I was serving people in the world of
Triathlon I was a triathlete for a while after I got sober I started getting into Triathlon and competing at a high level and for a while I was coaching there and I joined brand builders because I wanted to become a better Triathlon coach or expand my reach there but I learned very
Quickly through his methods that’s not really how I’m serving people because the idea of why I got into Triathlon and and going back to like serving the person that I once was is because I avoided things like doing triathlons or doing things that were scary and hard
Because I was afraid I was and my Mo you know myo was always to just Retreat from that fear whenever I felt it and it made my world much smaller but uh expanding like at after getting sober you know getting into the world of triath and competing in races you know taught me
That like actually leaning into that fear is is the way to really expand your world and expand your comfort zone and build that you know community and just build you know build a world Beyond fear that find that freedom Beyond fear I realized you know through that process
Of working with uh with brand builders and and Rory’s group that yeah that’s the person I’m here to serve is that person that I once was is that person who’s living in fear who who always experiences that fear but doesn’t see it as the superpower that it really is as
Signal that’s showing them what is possible for them if they just lean into it if they get a little curious about it and that just became that Epiphany and and yeah so that idea of being U of being perfectly positioned to serve the person that we once were it’s it’s a
Powerful thermometer barometer to determine how you can serve people absolutely well I I think we’re talking to an expert on fear today so I want to dig a little deeper into this Adam so you’ve been mining this for 165 podcast episodes you’ve you’ve had your personal Journey so how should people think about
Fear um the fear that’s in their lives and and how should they be how should they honor it and be aware of it and and what has been your experience of how to lean into it so I think the first one is kind of goes along with what we were
Talking about before with you know experience in you know recovery programs and things like that that that there’s there’s a number of ways we experience fear and in a lot of ways there the fear that’s related to maybe our mental health or that that’s that’s causing us significant trauma and when we’re living
In that kind of perspective there’s you know the fact that we need to heal from that and work into a community of like-minded people for healing or recovery or whatever might be our trauma there so broadly speaking about fear there’s there’s so many levels of it you
Know related to trauma or what have you that working through that healing element is so important first before you get that element of like what we experience every day on a day-to-day basis of of fear because the rest of us all feel fear too that may not I mean it
May be rooted in those traumas or maybe we’re at a healing place but maybe we want a personal develop or maybe we want to achieve something in our lives that’s way way way over there or way up there but the gap between where we are and where we want to be just seems
Insurmountable and that’s kind of where I live with my with what I’ve what I talk to people about is what they’ve overcome and how they’ve overcome it and and what they’ve learned from it and what I found is really that you know with with regard to fear if we can get
Curious about it first you know if we could just instead of retreating from it because the feeling is uncomfortable if we can at least just take a breath and really ask ourselves what is this fear really telling us and and even asking more specifically is this fear really
Signaling danger I think we intuitively know immediately if fear is signaling that we’re in danger if there’s a bear in front of us with its Cubs and it tells us we shouldn’t go approach the Bear in its Cubs or we should put a parachute on before we jump out of a
Plane or maybe not jump out of a plane at all I don’t that’s that’s my way of dealing with it but most of the experiences and fear if you think about the fear that exists in a day-to-day basis in the first world isn’t related to you know isn’t related to Danger I
Mean we have this evolutionary conditioning that tells us that we need to be afraid in a lot of variety a variety of scenarios because our lives are in danger and now all of the sudden within you know a hundred years of of millions of years of History we’re suddenly experiencing fear that doesn’t
Have to do with danger it’s more it more has to do with just general everyday anxiety you know there there was an exercise that we do in in or that I did with my sponsor in in AA that was you know just the the fears exercise and it
Was part of the four-step inventory where you know had a list of of fears just write down everything you’re afraid of and when I did that that was there was a very very powerful realization that I had and I’m starting to see a theme about this with a lot of the
People that I interview and talk to that most of the non- danger fears that I had in my life you know fear of rejection fear of failure fear of of not being enough and uh or fear of this idea that I couldn’t achieve the things that I
Wanted to achieve or what have you a lot of those were related to three really real root categories which were uncertainty overwhelm or self-doubt and so most if not if not all of them but when I categorized them like that I realized okay so there’s three root categories here and really if we
Can look at those from that perspective if we could turn uncertainty into conviction or we could turn over or or and and that we could uh look at overwhelm and try to practice discipline or and we can look at uh self-doubt and try to practice incremental growth those
Are kind of some of the solutions to finding that freedom Beyond fear um and I can kind of maybe get into those a little bit if You’ like but but high level that’s kind of what I’ve learned about fears we experience that uncertainty overwhelm or self-doubt Y
And those feel like obstacles in in our lives and they really make us feel stuck where we’re at and that leads to all sorts of terrible uncomfortable feelings like spare discouragement hopelessness all of that stuff and they could lead to pretty dark paths I love it and I’m
Going to put you uh I’m going to put the the framework to the test so if you’re comfortable with it is there a fear that you are working on now and if so how does it work the these three parameters for you yeah there there’s many I think
The one that that I mean and that’s another element of the fear that I’ve learned is it doesn’t go away and I still have tremendous fear around a lot of a lot of things and have to work through it um one of those things I
Think I feel most intensely I I feel a lot of fear of uncertainty um but I think the biggest one for me is self-doubt even though I have evidence to prove otherwise that I can achieve things and I can make the make it through things I I tend to doubt myself
A lot I tend to have a lot of that impostor syndrome or that feeling like I’m not enough to to achieve the things I want to achieve and so how I try to approach those things and and a lot of that gets to into my mind is where my
Mind will immediately start to ruminate on where it is I want to go or what it is I want to do or or you know the things that I think that I need to do and all the reasons of why I’m I’m not good enough to get there that that inner
Voice that that s that little s suffering that you’re talking about is pretty loud in my head but what I do really to try to overcome that is breaking it down moving back meeting where myself where I’m at on at any given time and just really focusing on
That next 5% achievable step that I just need to take like what is that what is that 5% that I need to get into I still experience all those levels of fear by the way uncertainty overwhelm and self-doubt using those methods just at least helped me to to to work through
Them and and expand that comfort zone so that the fear never really goes away but my world expands relative to those fears and and it’s just like you know that that that they’re just bigger issues that I kind of get through uh relative to those fears love it love it yeah
There there’s just so much around the power of incremental progress you know you see it in in James clear’s work in atomic habits yeah DJ fog’s work um Charles doig all of them came up with these seminal books in about a decade about habits and change
And the recipe for all of them was incremental progress the ancient version of that and it’s a um it’s a cliche but cliches are around for a reason right so from the da to Ching do the difficult things while they are easy and do the great things while they are small a
Journey of a Thousand Miles must begin with a single step and we look at that cliche particularly you know begin with a single step yeah heard it yeah yeah yeah it’s cliche are you doing it yeah are you taking this huge monstrous thing and are you going into fear and being
Styed by it and it’s too big and it’s too scary and it hits your amydala um so you freak out and and that’s the magic of the incremental step it lowers your risk threshold or or passes it underneath the Amiga it doesn’t have to freak out because it’s small enough so I
I think that’s so vital that’s great yeah I think the one thing that I’m wrestling with the most now and I’m trying to you know work through Solutions within my community my therapy and and all that kind of stuff is this idea that for as many incremental steps
As we take there’s always going to be a point I think if if we’re trying to pursue big things or we’re managing major change or dealing with big uh challenges in our lives I think there’s always a point where where we have to take a giant leap or where the leap that
We’re taking just feels giant or there’s no turning back kind of moments you know there’s people can talk about like you know uh um entering into a relationship or maybe leaving a job for another career or something like that you know these are these are burning the boats
Kind of decisions that sometimes we have to make and I guess I’m trying to reconcile in my own life how those work or how how those kind of fit into that framework of incremental steps and I think even in those points what I’m kind of coming to now is that’s where the
Idea of community and conviction become so important like we have to have the community of support the people that have been there that been through it and the people that are working through it and we have to have that uh that conviction that it is you know the move
That when we do it no regrets we just keep moving forward and that’s yeah that’s kind of what I’m wrestling with a bit now I love that you added that because it’s you’re right it’s not just about incremental steps there are some leaps required but but how do you how do
You drisk that leap a little bit is what I hear you’re saying yeah and I found that you know with with with regard to that it can be that can be where overwhelm comes in a lot of times is when we have to take that big leap leap
It feels overwhelming yeah and in this world like one of the one of the things that angers me a lot about what what the the some of the messaging I hear around the world we hear a lot of like the you know you need to give 110% all the
Hustle culture kind of stuff all the time you just need to give your all all the time and I think the reason that that upsets me is because you know when you’re trying to run an endurance race like in know former Iron Man you know it’s like when you’re running an
Endurance race giving your all all the time is going to burn you out you’re going to burn out and then at those points where you have to like give your all where you have to legitimately give your all you don’t have anything left and so I think it’s important at the
Remaining times when you are pursuing those incremental growth to actually step back and give like 80% instead and like really approach it with a keeping some capacity there so that you have that freedom to like think and freedom to that time to rest the time to kind of
Recover so that when those points hit you to jump or to really leap or you need to unleash 110% you have it in the tank to do it absolutely bicycling I was watching the tour to France and they were talking about power meters putting the Telemetry on the bike for people to
Know are they at Max effort they 80% eff 110% effort that’s becoming really important in professional bicycling right yeah absolutely yeah I I used to have a power meter and I relied primarily on heart rate because that was more of a biometric feedback kind of
Indicator of like if I’m at 80% of my heart rate maximum heart rate you know that tells me that okay well I have some in the tank if I just need to go keep going but yeah Power meters do a similar thing where it’s just like once you know
Your functional thresold uh Power you can manage percentages of that during the course of a race I feel like life is a lot like that you know when you’re trying to pursue big things or even going in into relationships or anything like that well well let’s let’s let’s
Together figure out what’s the power meter for for us right what’s the Telemetry and to me it goes back to the things we’ve been talking about transparency vulnerability and Community I am convinced that I cannot see myself clearly that I I have to to the degree I
Tell people who I am and let myself be seen then they can be that start to be that Telemetry for me they can start to let me know that I’m coasting or I’m pushing too hard or what have you to me that’s you know there’s a great line from
Pauloo The Alchemist I’m going to paraphrase he said when you really have a goal the whole universe conspires to help you achieve it and I really believe that but the universe can’t help you if you don’t tell the universe what the goal is so I think forming these trusted relationships really being transparent
Telling people where you’re trying to go people are wonderful that healthy people will particularly your friends will find a way to help you calibrate and help to encourage you so I think there they they play a critical role there as well yeah I I I 100% agree and I think that’s a
Great I like like the way you frame that is that the people around you can be your Telemetry because a lot of times like when you kind of continuing on that analogy of the of the of the cycling racing a lot of times when I was training for cycling like to start it
Felt like I was going easier than I actually was like when I was when I was trying to like you know spin the pedals and I found oh my power is higher than it actually should be and I was even though it didn’t feel like I was going
Really that hard I was pushing too hard and I think we feel that way maybe in life too where where we feel like because uh we feel so overwhelmed or we feel like we or we do doubt ourselves or the future is so uncertain we feel like
We need to go harder than we than we actually do need to and that leads us to burnout but if if we have that Community to help us say like yeah you know you’re you’re good just you know maybe take a step back on that yeah yeah I like that
Absolutely I I used to be a huge Runner loved it and then overtrained Tor growing muscle career ending injury why because I was pushing too hard didn’t have any coaching didn’t have anyone to say do you really need to go that Max effort all the time so I think what
You’re saying is super important you know the the other thing that makes me think about those those leaps those binary moments I had some real binary moments in my life so out of college I was an army officer it was the only way I could pay for college and eventually I
Became a paratrooper and that was a little odd because I’m afraid of heights but the mission was super cool I’m like okay I’ll just suck it up yeah every time I jumped was an experience you would be on the aircraft and the nervousness would really start to build
Right but then they had this light right near the jump door it was a a red light in a green light and when you got over the Drop Zone it went from red to green and then it was green light go and then you just started going and I just loved
That sense of taking that leap yeah it was so binary it was I’m gonna push myself out this door um military parachuting there there’s a lot of injuries so you didn’t know what was going to happen we jumped at night so you couldn’t see the ground most of the
Time so there was all sorts of uncertainty but there is a real excitement about just the binary nature of green light go and and leap out yeah and as you talk I’m the military to me is like a cartoon it’s very black and white and the real world is a little bit
More gray but the military solved for overwhelm um in the sense that it it was very simple what we were doing the we trained to do it many many times we had focus and we were executing something to a high degree so that helped me pass the fear uncertainty yeah just training
Through it having Community around um other people that were bolstering my my courage Etc and then self-doubt yeah you had a guy behind you pushing you know so you’re going to push out the door right so yeah I think this aspect of community and just how it just keeps coming up in
This conversation right yeah oh for sure and I think it’s it’s it’s it again it kind of gets back to the idea that in my opinion it is the first and most important element of you know personal growth or emotional healing Community is I think that there are more elements
It’s it’s it’s necessary but not sufficient on on the community front but without Community I would put forward the idea that it’s that big goals or big things or healing is really just not possible I mean it’s just I mean I don’t like to work in absolutes but that is
One area where I might get close to absolutes you know I’m I’m right there with you it’s provocative to say that that really takes Community because particularly As Americans you know this aspect of I am a self-made person and I could go to the seminar and I can read
The book and I can bootstrap my way up that that’s that’s what we’re raised with it’s actually probably a more Eastern concept that it’s about Community it’s about groups but you and I are finding the same thing it’s it’s magical yeah and U you know you touched
On the idea of of the military solving for uh for overwhelm and I I love that concept I I was not in the military and but um but the idea of the military solving for overwhelm makes sense because there was so much discipline in it seems like there was so much more
Discipline in that Community you knew like how your day was going to go basically right I mean it was and and you established a foundation for being disciplined and in my experience that discipline is really the the path to get beyond that overwhelm and um yeah you know dis
Discipline is a funny thing most of us and I think the American Spirit is we don’t like being told what to do and we don’t like someone imposing discipline on us that’s just not not our Vibe right right but the discipline that I found that was really counterintuitive in the
Military was an intrinsic discipline it was a discipline of high internal standards was one secondly what discipline allowed the culture to do was to know that the guy to the left of me and the right right of me was going to be there to do their job and support me
When it really mattered yeah so I I think you know sometimes when I talk about cultivation of friendships you know there’s a funnel to Bringing friendships in and values alignment is pretty important and it can be really helpful perhaps um really important to know that you have the same values
Before you really go deep and you get vulnerable as we’ve been talking about but that values align me also is this someone that’s going to be in the fox hole next to me right it’s right you know it’s laying those seeds you know I’m going to do a a bit of a segue
Between a couple things so we talked about getting curious so and I’m going to go into the opportunity zone for you so we’ve been in the strength Zone um so the opportunity Zone having negative thoughts and feeling less than in the wisdom diagnostic are statistically correlated with being less happy makes a
Lot of sense right right but those Rose to being at the top and so you know you’ve been very successful in life in a lot of ways but having negative thoughts and feeling less than is still still corrosive right it makes Adam feel it can be tough to be inside Adam sometimes
Right right and and one thing I really want to introduce here that that really blew me away is something called uh it’s goes by various names but um it’s called The Observer it’s called witness Consciousness Michael Singer is a modern author that really goes after this but
It has absolutely ancient Roots um the Hindu wisdom tradition goes after this most profoundly but you can find it all from ancient times to modernity and that is that I’m not my mind that I can find a way to look at my mind and work with my mind and you said something earlier
Um to get curious about fear that to me is exactly what witness Consciousness looks like is I can either be in the fear and then I’m in my lyic brain um these little tiny parts of my brain not my prefrontal cortex which has all the reasoning and the patience and the
Deliberation I’m in the fight flight or free zone right right and so there’s a couple steps there and you also mentioned this before about fear first of all taking a breath and that sounds so trite and so silly that a breath is what’s required but it’s such an
Important point and and I owe Victor Frankle royalties for this one because I I’m I’m sure most people have heard this quote but I think we need to tell ourselves this he said that there is a space that’s critically important when we take a breath then we can find the
Space between our lyic brain reacting reacting reacting and literally giving the time for the electrical signals to progress up to our prefrontal cortex so we can bring our entire aim on uh brain online and the way he phrased it was between stimulus and response there is a
Space and in that space is our power to choose our response and in our response lies our growth and our freedom so if you back into that you know what does it mean to be free a lot of different definitions of that but Freedom internally freedom to not have to react
In fear or anger or Panic you know when those things grab a hold of us we are not free and we can be incredibly unskillful in what we do we can harm relationships harmmer opportunities so that single breath being able to carve out time so that we’re not reactive that
Responsive is critical to freedom and he says it’s a power it’s a it’s a power to choose our response and it’s it’s something that most people don’t tap into and and I find it really challenging to do it in real time and I was once in in live TV production and it
Was super stressful and the most stressful job was the technical director um so imagine like I read for the Super Bowl there were 165 cameras and there was a technical director calling the shots behind the scenes it’s like ready camera 85 go camera 75 give me a two
Shot of that job of quarterbacking it is incredibly stressful oh man yeah I’ll bet that seems insane crazy it’s total real time right most things in life aren’t real time we have a chance to stop and breathe and whatever and I’m like how do you do it
Here and I was freaking out and this old whiz and technical director said Mike you always have time to take one breath MH even in that real time experience you know most most of life isn’t real time it’s not Mission critical we have time to take a take a breath so that’s the
First thing and you mention that take a breath the second thing is just getting curious and again we’re we’re talking about negative selft talk here but it it totally applies ROM dos who’s a cool cat he said something that really stuck with me he said get curious he would say
Whenever you come up with something that your mind fires off an automatic thought say to yourself how interesting exclamation point how interesting if you can perfect that tone it’s light it is inquisitive it’s not reactive it’s looking at yourself like a scientist within how interesting that I’m having
That thought that’s the first thing I took away from the second thing was look at the mechanics of your mind not the content of your mind and what he meant there is when we start to think about the content so so you know I was I was having a self-worth
Crisis the other day and when I start to go down that rabbit hole and start to analyze it it sucks me in and the content takes over and then you’re it’s like you’re in the tumble dry cycle right blah blah tough to get out of yeah
What RDA said is when we develop Mastery around this Observer witness Consciousness the ability to just see the thought and say what are the mechanics of it I’m having a negative thought about selfworth how interesting that’s it and just watch it come and watch it go uh Buddhism has the same
Thing um the beus we were the students of the Buddha they used to train themselves to observe and they would say Here Comes anger there goes anger here comes lost there goes lost Etc and there’s two really important pieces of Spiritual Development there first the front end to even step back observe it
And say I’m feeling unworthy right now I’m feeling sad right now or what have you that’s the first piece I think awareness is 99% of this to be able to take the breath and then become aware they also on the back end of that there goes anger there goes lust that’s
Tougher to do but very very powerful if you can stay with the experience and be just this curious scientist when it drops off and you’re able to see that it’s not there anymore the real power there is it trains us about impermanence there it went again here’s
Yet another example of where I suffered and I went through this process and now it’s gone and I’m getting more reps on impermanence because impermanence is a very intellectual concept we know that suffering is impermanent but we really feel it intensively inside time just slows down and we just suffer but being
Able to just you know as a triathlete you know all about training and getting reps it’s the same thing in our emotional states how can I just be a scientist of my own mind track the mechanics not the content See When the Thought comes When the Thought goes and
The last thing I’ll say is I keep two dials on this and this is how this is my Telemetry of how I track my progress when I have a really negative thought how deep does it go and how long does it last and what I have found is through
Steady work the lows aren’t as low it’s taking less time for me able to get past so I I think it’s just exciting to lean into that as a as a challenge of Mastery to be able to get a different perspective on because we all have
Negative selft talk but are we in the game to to work with our ability around it you know yeah yeah that’s such a great great point and I so because it’s an area that I struggle with a lot um with regard to really intrusive thoughts
Uh you know th those are the things I I I wrestle with and I don’t I know that I don’t I I can’t trust them because I know that a lot of times they’re coming in and it’s part of you know it’s part of an obsessive compulsive part of me
That you know that um that you know those intrusive thoughts just like you know usually they hit a wall of your frontal cortex but these just kind of make it through and then just rattle around in my brain and then I have conversations with them they’re very
Sticky and so a lot of times I’m I’m I’m not doing the take a breath I’m not doing the get curious about it I’m engaging in the arguments in my head and it’s causing me resentments it’s causing me um you know fear it’s it’s it’s increasing my anxiety and and that’s
That’s always like it it is an ongoing challenge where you I I love the idea of just you know writing it down or or or marking it down is like you know this is what happened and you know naming it naming it always takes the power away
From it yep and taking a breath getting curious about it and then watching it leave I think there’s there there is so much value to that and I honestly have to do better at it as I haven’t you know it’s it’s something that still kind of
Kind of gets to me and and clouds my judgment on a lot of things you know and at at risk of beating people completely over the head with this the the other theme is I’m just getting better at telling people what’s in my head and I’m telling them that I’m I’m having this
Thought I’m feeling this negativity or suffering and then they laugh at me right yeah like an old to trusted friend to say there you go doing that again and pointing out these patterns that we can’t see ourselves and it just booys me so much but the price of admission is
Cultivating those friends and then being able to just be ourselves and be seen so that that helps me a lot when people help me to find the patterns in my behavior for sure like one thing um a friend of mine points out super consistently is I tend to be a binary
Thinker and I express things in catastrophic terms that is the most horrible thing ever and he just calls me on it every single time it says you’re doing it again yeah and I’m like thank you thank you for that feedback it’s so vital you know for me to get the Reps to
Try and retrain myself yeah it’s not it’s never it’s it it’s not an easy process but so helpful again to have that Community to support it and just tell you call you out on it we’re going to call this the community episode I’m all in all right I want to also
Touch on one of the other statistically significant areas from the diagnostic is around achievement you know in spirituality we tend to think of it’s about Serenity it’s about sitting under the B tree and I don’t I’m totally lack of attachment to things well there’s a very consistent thread in ancient wisdom
That now it’s about achievement too it’s about having purpose it’s about getting stuff done and even the Buddha was you know one of the ammes of Serenity he had a heck of a purpose and he ordained thousands of monks he Tire he toured for the last 30 years of his life constantly
Building the organization spreading the message Etc so particularly with high Achievers Serenity plus achievement seems to be the recipe so you have a cool mission that we talked about about really serving others serving others to you know Flow versus fear and you have a high score for knowledge of your zone of
Genius which is how do you what are your talents and potential so that’s really important but right now you’re you have a more average score on living in your zone of Genius so that’s an opportunity for you you know what your mission is you know what you’re good at but
Something is missing in your ability to live in it more I’m just curious what what’s behind that yeah I think that there’s still quite an element of scarcity that I live in of this idea that you know and I think where that lives is that I know where my talents
Are best utilized like where I could bring the best value and where I could bring the best message but a lot of times I don’t necessarily delegate the things that I maybe don’t have those talents with or maybe that consume my time that maybe I shouldn’t be doing it
You know I’m I’m I’m answering emails or I’m I’m you know I’m doing something that isn’t really service oriented but is necessary for the job and so I think that that’s kind of where that is and I also do spend uh an unnecessary amount of time still living in my head um you
Know which is which is not my funny enough it’s not my Zona genius but uh uh uh when I’m in my head I’m not you know I’m not really the best place to serve and and so I think that that’s really where that comes from is I’m still I’m
Still struggling with and and working through you know really how to manage some of these intrusive thoughts that that do come in a lot and and how I can let them go how I can uh live in harmony with uh with the things that the Challen the daily challenges and this and the
Challenges that I’m going through um in my own life and the and the struggles and also be able to serve at a high level in like in in the ways that I can speaking on stage podcasting um helping other family businesses to you know build a legacy kind of thing so that’s
That’s I think where that struggle comes in is there anything you’re working on there any line of sight you have to to doing more of living in your owna Genius yeah so I I am working with um you know a couple of coaches I have a business
Coach I have my therapist who I’ve been with for a long time who’s helping me with some of the OCD thoughts like you know some of the some of the thoughts that lead to that high anxiety where I my brain might be lying to me it’s forcing arguments into my head say about
Like when I talk about my uh W2 or or running this company you know with all the challenges there I tend to magnify those challenges and Overlook how well the company’s actually doing so I spent an an inornate amount of time focused on the negative parts of that which is you
Know sometimes in leadership and so I’m kind of working through that on how I can let those things go find a little bit more Serenity on that live into that zone of Genius so yeah working again back to the community part working with coaches working with my therapist and
Trying to build that path forward a little bit more it’s a tough place to be right now because I am I I I work in a very well established family business that you know is very secure very safe and doing fairly well right now long-term challenges of course there
There may be but uh but over the short term it’s okay and but I’m also balancing that with a start starting up a personal brand that isn’t generating Revenue that’s you know that’s it’s it’s kind of like I have to balance a lot of those thoughts of well
What are you doing this for you know this isn’t security this isn’t safe this isn’t you know bringing you Revenue are you just like following some childhood G dream are you wasting your time all of those thoughts come into play and uh then I’ll get a moment of like I’ll get
Paid to speak and it’ll be like Oh see it is working I’ll get that little point of reference but then it goes away it melts away and then it gets replaced with those negative thoughts and I keep having to kind of do a little bit of b battle with
That uh that’s how it shows up no that makes perfect sense um couple reaction to that so it sounds like you’re traversing up and down Mass’s hierarchy of needs a little bit so you know safety needs security needs Etc you know we we always e even when we’re have abundance
That’s still operating you know we we still have that fear and so that’s operating but the other aspect so that’s at the bottom of the pyramid but the top of the pyramid is self-actualization uh desire to become the the most that we can be and someone
Asked every masle at the end of his career he said what percentage of people get to self-actualization do you know what he said no what’d he say less than one percent oh really so you’re saying there’s a chance yes there is and I I would submit
Me to you that’s what’s calling you yeah right I’ve become just I Revere vocation that voice inside of you and the there there’s a spiritual author named Parker Palmer he says a I I I used to think a vocation was Expo imposed on me externally I’m a lawyer I’m a doctor I’m
A president of a family business I’m all these things the society says I should be and I sign up for that but he says now I understand that a vocation is a voice inside me saying I cannot not do this it’s something that’s pulling me it’s something that we is our light
Inside that we want to bring to the world so I think it’s totally natural that you are balancing both of those sides of the equation the safety needs with the self-actualization needs I just salute you for leaning so hard into self-actualization and service that combination of your light bringing out
The lights of others that’s points in heaven my friend oh thank you thanks a lot and likewise I I I see that here too in what you’re doing in this uh in this in this forum and and that’s uh it’s it’s really great I’m I’ll say from at
Least the 165 episodes that I’ve done of my show immensely fulfilling if not still frightening absolutely all right I want to end just on a high note you have a high score on something that’s really important andly significant you have a relatively high score for loving yourself and I’m curious have you always
Been that way no absolutely not I don’t think that you can be running from Fear to the extent that I was drowning it in addiction and and still love yourself I was abusive to myself I I you know treated myself with contempt but I think
It was out of that abuse and out of that ultimate healing in that community that I’ve found that I was able to realize and really see the love that other people had for me you know it gets it actually gets me very emotional but experiencing that love that other people
Have for me and even experiencing how much love there is you know that helped me to love myself in the long in the in the in the long run and that was a process but I think what it demonstrates is regardless of where we came from however hopeless we may have been
However much we may hate ourselves or not love ourselves that everybody is worthy of that love my hope for everyone is that they that they have that realization too that they can realize the love that they are worthy of the way I did that’s that’s awesome I found the
Same thing that I think it’s very hard to learn to love yourself organically just by yourself I have found that I have learned to Love Myself by allowing others to love me when we’re able to trust others be seen be supported let their love flow into us that gives us
The faith and the courage to try to start to love ourselves amen I think the the loving of myself has been something that I’ve been able to get to a high level on I was asked recently by a mutual friend of ours said you know when
When I was kind of chall uh he he was challenging me on on a few things in my my own life and you know where I was going but he asked me like you know when did you stop trusting yourself and that one hit pretty close to home um and I
Had to I had to admit you know that yeah I don’t I don’t trust myself to the extent that I should and while I love myself I think that that’s really the next step of where I’m going is is how do I build that real trust in in myself
That I can do the things I have the points of reference but that I can achieve the things that I’m trying to set out to do um that’s that’s an important one I’m working on absolutely and I would just go back to something you said before which is incremental
Steps you know sometimes there are big leaves but probably more of of that trust comes in just leaning in successively to these incremental things and I heard a couple things that that really stuck with me one was this is a little little complicated but I’ll
Unpack it it was Tom Bilu the you know billion dooll entrepreneur he said a goal is just a falsifiable hypothesis I’m like what the hell does that mean well a goal I’m going to get here and here’s the way I’m going to do it it’s just a hypothesis it’s a
Hypothesis that I do these actions going to get me to the goal it’s a hypothesis that goal is going to make me happy um it’s a whole bunch of hypotheses right but goals can feel really heavy and really big and after a lifetime after a career of helping executive teams come
Up with goals I’m a little more nuanced on them well if it’s a hypothesis what can you do with it what do you do with a hypothesis well if you’re a scientist you experiment and then if you do an experiment and you’re a good scientist and the experiment turns South do you do
You cry and tear your hair out you say we learned something on to the next thing so that was some advice I got at the same time I heard that that same meeting someone said said to me Mike you need a high volume of lowrisk experiments and you know what I need to
Do more of that so I’m reminding myself of that today yeah I love I love that that that’s that’s really helpful uh because I know that I get tied very much to the end result of my goals and if I don’t achieve them if if we don’t
Achieve these goals we put so much shame around it and and I like that aspect of it really adds context to the idea that we hear a lot that either you you succeed or you learn right you you never you never really fail there there’s there’s lessons in in not meeting your
Goals and if you can get those lessons then you know you can take it to the next level to the next experiment so to speak I really like that that way of framing it absolutely and meing me I got to close with with an ancient quote from
The upanishads of 500 BC the Hindu wisdom tradition talking about outcomes versus The Journey itself and experiments the aad said those who are motivated only by desire desire for the fruits of action are miserable for they’re constantly anxious about the results of what they do what are the
Fruits of action those are outcomes and if we’re constantly saying my podcast is going to be this big or my book is going to get this many copies or whatever um to me that is paralyzing I get lost I get into overwhelm I get into self-doubt I get into uncertainty right your three
Themes when we focus on the outcome and the outcome is too big what’s the anote to it what am I doing right now what’s the next what’s the next right step as we’d say in 12 steps well this has been super amazing Adam I really enjoyed I
Just want to recap some of the things that we heard from me today you know you’re work in fear so embracing fear as a pathway as as a destination as something that you can work with and and really use as an opportunity some of the ways to navigate fear getting curious
Take a breath first so that you can activate that pref fundal cortex and get curious you know break uh fear down a bit more you know how can I reduce the uncertainty and get to conviction how can I reduce the overwhelm and get to focus how can Ive the self-doubt by what
We were just talking about incremental change build up the winds build up the muscle memory when we have to take a leap I thought this was an important Point how do you minimize your risk recalibrating through others and and building those trusting relationships which we talked about throughout and
Then lastly self-love I think this is just a really important message you know we talked about the Friendship recession we’re getting more atomized we’re getting more separate when we the more we lean into those close friendships and share authentically and support each other and love each other we’re going to
Fill each other’s cup we’re going to f feel that self-love in a more profound way and and we all need that so much so thank you so much for the wisdom bombs my friend thank you this was this was incredible I really really love this format uh really helped me it felt like
A a great coaching session here so I appreciate it Mike well and you’re coaching me as well so that that it’s a little Community helping each other absolutely iron sharpening iron So Adam what what’s next for you and how can people get in touch with you yeah so I
Am always working on my message and speaking uh from stages and if if if whatever you’ve heard today uh resonates with you as far as you know an audience that you might know of that that you know may want to hear it um you know
Reach out to me and uh you can find me on the LinkedIn and Adam C Hill is my uh little tagline after the LinkedIn thing and then uh Instagram is the Adam SE Hill if you’re into dad jokes you’ll get a whole bunch of them there uh and you
Can find flow fear the podcast uh on YouTube and if you type in youtube.com adamc Hill um you’ll find me there super awesome and and Adam really is the king of dad jokes um I’ve been exposed to this over over a couple years as a matter of fact um you’re remarkably
Consistent by the way you just keep dropping thanks yeah eight eight years every day for uh on Facebook that I haven’t failed holy s that’s what I’m talking about okay and then uh the backbone of this conversation was the wisdom diagnostic that’s a diagnostic that just gets more and more powerful
The more people take it and telling us what the practical ways are that we can find happiness so I’d love everyone to take it uh the opportunity to take that get your personaliz results and then perhaps share your life wisdom on this podcast at a later date you can go to
Www.visd.com VN wisdom.com and click on the wisdom diagnostic link so that’s wrap and Adam thank you so much and uh for everyone um see you on the next happiness Explorer podcast thanks so much