During this webinar, esteemed speakers have delved into various aspects of the “Role of Women in Modern Bhutanese Society,” shedding light on their significant contributions across diverse spheres.
Okay, I think we can start. Your excellence’s honorable cabinet ministers in Bhutan, members of parliament in Bhutan dear doctor Emila Harts, panelists, ladies and gentlemen, and of course, dear colleagues. It is my privilege to open this online event also
On behalf of my the name, my colleagues. My name is Mike Newton as a program executive of the foundation for freedom. It is my honor to welcome you to participate in an online event titled Role of Women in Modern Bhutanese Society. The
Foundation is a German political foundation that promotes liberal values working in areas of good governance, rules of law, education and freedom market economy. We achieve our goals by political consultancy, political dialogues, and civic education. Since the beginning of this
Year, our office in New Delhi, which is part of the FNF Regional Office in South Asia has, been exploring the possibility to start activities in Bhutan. We started by organizing a webinar on liberty and happiness in Bhutan for which we got overwhelming
Response and this motivated us. We are pleased to share that we are already have identified a partner in Bhutan and we are supporting them on activities to promote citizenship and good governance. Bhutan has been a prime example of how good governance can form the
Backbone of democracy, nurtured, definitely in a global world. For good leadership foresight Bhutan out an exemplary approach to development. Germany and Bhutan has been pursuing relations for several years even in the absence of diplomatic relations. Germany has been supporting Bhutan from the
European Union and it’s the largest contributor to its union budget. People to people contact between Bhutan and Germany also increased over the years. However, recently, from last year, November 2020, both the countries announced on diplomatic relations with the establishment of diplomatic
Relations. The 2 ambassadors expresses the desire for further deepened the friendship and cooperation between the two countries. Bhutan’s program is largely informed by the Buddhist. Philosophy of seeking the right causes and conditions that give rise to happiness. This was encapsulated in
Growth, national happiness. Women in Bhutan enjoy a better status in the society and our activity contribution to the economy in present days by taking up various roles in different sectors. Today’s session will focus on the role of women in modern Bhutanese
Society and how through their multitasking skills have become exceptional leaders in their respective fields. We are anticipate that by this online event foundation will enhance the visibility of Bluetown with with in Germany and Imam, the public. My sincere thanks to
Our panelist Miss also to our and sharing Doika for agreeing to be part of this panel. We are all delighted to have you here and to know your views from your experience. Thank you also to Namgai Sam for agreeing to moderate the sessions. I
Would like to make a special mention and thanks to Mister Reinard Voyev from the German Bhutan Himalaya Society Society based out of Germany for this special support in giving us insights on Bhutan as well as supporting us in communicating
The event provider range. It is now my pleasure to hand over the microphone to the vice president of the German Bhutan Society Doctor, Emila Harts, Miss Hearts, has lived in Bhutan for many years, knows this country very well, needs organization as a vice
President. The German Bhutan Himalaya Society has been working for Bhutan since 1984. Their office is based out of Cologne in Germany. This organization is one of the oldest friendship societies for Bhutan. The main objective of this organization is to create
Mutual understanding and to know each other better. They are supporting guests from Bhutan for various lectures and information events, exhibition, study tours and support of the previous Give us hearts. We are now looking forward to your dress
And over to you. A very warm welcome to everybody. I’m very happy that I’m now to today speaking to so many people who I met already in Bhutan or who I have known for many years who I’m a friend with. Um I
Represent today the German Bhutan Himalaya Society And as we have already learned, this is a group of hundred fifty people who are headed by a voluntary board of professionals, the main, the president of our society, Mister Reinhard Wolf. He is by
Profession, a forester, and he has worked throughout his professional life in many countries of the globe. including African countries, but also in Asia and in Bhutan, he has worked for five years. In Louisa, in a social forestry project. We have on our board
Herbert Kuster. He is a very experienced former administrator in many ministries of the German government. And he has a profound knowledge of democratic institutions and democratic processes. We have on board a woman who looks after our finances. Uh Brigade
Eisenach. Uh she has done a wonderful job in sort of channeling funds. From Bhutan and looking after the finances of our society and I, myself, I am an agriculturist. I have worked for many years in the area of traditional medicine
And I have lived and worked in Bhutan for 17 years. I have tools, two children, two boys who are both born and raised in Bhutan. So, I sort of represent this world citizenship, you know, we have lived in Asia and
We live now in Europe. So, I have met many people, many in in Bhutan and of course, many women. I would like to I would I would like to mention also that the German Bhutan Himalaya Society has a very good network
And we are very proud to say that we have good connections to the Bhutanese Embassy in Brussels. So, this network and the support from the from the this diplomatic support from the embassy in Brussels helps us to really carry out projects in Bhutan
So back to our subject of today the women of Bhutan as as we have already heard women have a very high sort of status in Bhutan higher than in other Asian countries and then in other countries of the world even. So I remember one very
Strong woman which is she passed away a couple of years ago. But she was honoured by the third king of Bhutan as the first Ramjan that is sort of like an executive chief of a ministry and she has founded back in in the nineteen
Eighties I think the National Women Association of Wu Tan. So I have known her personally and I think she was one of the very strong women of Bhutan I have also met who has led the anti-corruption commission of Bhutan. She has fought very
Fierce battles against a lot of things which did not go so well in Bhutan and she is one of the very strong women who was awarded the the sword by the force king of Bhutan. She is a dasher. So Dasho Dawadim and
Amit Nzamo both are very very strong women who are sort of demonstrate what positions women can have in Bhutan. But of course not everybody has such a high position and not many women are involved in politics of modern Bhutan. Most
Women are as all over the world, housewives, farmers, entrepreneurs, and women need to work a lot. You know they are multitasking all the time. They have to educate the children. They have to look after the income of the family And it’s not it’s definitely
Not an easy life you know. And I think the women have have difficulties especially when we consider that the rural urban migration is a very is very high in Bhutan. Many rural families leave their farms and move into the towns. And that is the
Moment where the old traditions of living together many generations living in one house break apart. And I see most of the problems coming from that situation That not Grandma and Grandma are looking after the children anymore. Because in a
Small little flat in the town. It’s not possible to live with two or three or four generations under one roof. So I think the modern society is facing problems in in regard to the to the situation of women and I think the seminar is one
Way of trying to address this situation and maybe finding solutions also. I’m absolutely certain that women in Bhutan are so strong. They will overcome this difficulties. And with support from the government I’m sure that that will be yeah a new step into
The future. I think we will have very interesting speakers today in the evening and I’m very much looking forward to the discussion and yeah I wish this event a very good outcome. Tashi Delik. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very
Much, Miss Hearts for your greetings for your dress and for your interesting introduction. Before we start, the panel discussion, I would like to take you to a trip to Bhutan although not really virtual. So, here is a less than two minute short video.
This footage depicts life in Bhutan from a baby, a girl, a mother, a farmer, nurse, security and professional. It strings a threat on many lifespans of women from a young age till she grows old, touching lives and nature around her and contributing the
Best way she can. The song is broadly about the connectivity of lives and how we should respect the past and our parents to create harmony in the future. This video is produced by Chong Ling. Chongling is a self-taught cinematographer, editor, and
Photographer. He has added short films like The Red, Door, and Work as a line producer from the critically acclaimed feature firm, The Red Fellows. He’s also a found of Zoom out Productions, a multimedia production space in Thempu, Bhutan so Marco, please film up.
Again you love you jumped upon boots are Yeah, what for impressive pictures which now brings us to our next item on the program. It is now my pleasure to open the discussion and give the microphone over to Namgai Sam
Who will guide us through the evening. Let me briefly before I do that, introduce Miss Sam with a few words. I’m Gaisama, the executive director of the journalist, SS Association of Bhutan, a non-political and non-profit organization with overarching mandates are promote professionalism and
Journalism, upward freedom of expressions, protect and promote the right to information and protect journalism from hazards such as threats, harassments, legislation, etcetera. Mistam is an independent journalist with more than a decade experience in all forms of media. She’s a trainer and
Consultant for media and gender issues. She’s a mental health advocate and also LGBTIQ LI as well. She is also a young Asian leader and a full bride Humphrey fellow. Ladies and gentlemen, as you can see, the discussion is in the best
Hands. Thank you very much. The floor is yours. Thank you so much, Mike. I do hope it’s in the best hands. I do aspire to be in the best hands and in the best mouth tonight. Um thank you so much for having this
Panel, Frederick Naman Foundation. I think it’s such a wonderful platform especially for the women who are on the panel. It’s such a pleasure and a privilege of mine to be able to moderate this panel of women that I admire deeply and
Respect as well. Um before I start, I would like to introduce panelist sure some of you may have already seen the bios if you haven’t. I will just run through it in no particular order. So we have and I’m basically it’s out of
Respect and she’s older than me. Um it’s not really a title but we refer to somebody older as Am. So I’m Sona Mongmo is a business person and social worker who’s she has worked in the tourism industry for decades and is involved in
Various social enterprises and charity projects in Bhutan. She is deeply dedicated to supporting rural communities and local operations with a vast experience and large network. She is also the founder of among the earliest companies in the country to provide travel
Related services. Was established in the year 1985. That is the year of my birth. So Sonama has been around for a lot of for for many years and a lot of experiences to share as you will see tonight on the
Panel. Um second on the panel is she’s a home that South Asia board member as a gender consultant with extensive national regional international experience and development. She’s actively engaged in the area of women’s empowerment with a particular focus on economic and political
Empowerment. In her role as the head of Binew, Bhutan Network for Empowering Women, a civil society organization that empowers women in order to mobilize, motivate and facilitate women’s participation in all forms of development and gover she travels and meets rural women
And all nooks and corners of she is also the honorary consul of the Netherlands in Bhutan We finally have Amsrin Dolkar. She is the executive director of Renew which stands for respect, educate, nurture, and empower women. So Renew is founded by
Her Majesty the Queen Mother Sangiod in the year 2004. It is a non-profit organization which works on empowering survivors of domestic violence and gender-based violence by enabling them to be financially sustainable and emotionally independent individuals towards a socially productive member of
Society she brings with her 26 years of experience working in the social sector. She started her career with the Ministry of Education in 1992 and gradually started working for Renew since 2004 And I have worked with both Amstering as well as I
Think that will come out as we talk in the panel. I haven’t had a chance to work with but I’ve had such great things about her and there are so many great things to share about her tonight as well. Um just some
Housekeeping before we start the panel. Um we’re going to have at least two to three questions for every panelist. After that we’ll open up ah for questions. Um then we will return to the panel again and to my questions. If there
Aren’t questions we will continue as a Q&A on the panel. Uh but feel free to send in your questions. Um even while we are speaking and then we’ll take in questions in between so that everybody’s engaged and not feeling left out. Um and if
You’re joining from it’s pretty late. South Asia it’s quiet late. Um and not too late in Germany in other parts of the world eh in the west. So do feel free to send in the questions and we’ll take them
In. As we go on with our panel discussion. So I’m returning to our topic of discussion for tonight. Rule of women in modern Putini Society. Well. we are a society in transition. So even our roles as women, men and other other genders are in
Transition too. While not all transitions are smooth in the Bhutanese context. Most of it has been gradual and orderly. There hasn’t been much disruption. I would be echoing the sentiments of many Bhutanese women that it is only due to the far sighted
Leadership of our kings. That Bhutanese women have come this far. Even before the SDGs underscored gender equality, it was a priority in our development goals. Upon royal command, the National Commission for Women and Children established. Uh women leaders are appointed to
Eminent positions in parliament and at executive levels all under all leadership as well. The appointment of female eminent members to parliament is particularly dear me and to because there were barely any elected women at the time and I’m sure will have so much more
To share on this. Um Bhutanese women enjoy far greater social and legal status than our South Asian counterparts as we’ve heard before from Doctor Armala. Um this while we while we we enjoy the status but thanks thanks to being a
Matrilineal Society Um and also unlike in other parts of South Asia the husband usually moves into the wife’s home and not vice versa. Opening up to the world has had both its pros and cons. While some parts of our minds have broadened. Some
Parts have narrowed sadly. Bhutan was never colonised. But we’ve inherited a colonial legislature and a little bit of the mindset. Mostly from our good friend and neighbor India where men are placed front and centre in all of this. Yes have
Been some losses but the gains have been immense. Before modern education, women were not educated. Only boys were educated in the monasteries. The first king of Bhutan introduced modern education in the early 1900s. There are hilarious anecdotes of parents hiding their daughters from
Officials under large bamboo baskets. Do not send them to school when modern education first began. Officials would visit families door to door to ask that children be sent to schools. Incredible to think how far we’ve come in the last hundred years. I remember a
Teacher of mine telling me this when I was in the eighth standard. Um I was studying in Bhutan at that time. The rest of the world learnt to crawl, walk, cycle, drive and then fly. But for Bhutan we left from crawling to driving and
Flying. Development and growth have happened by leaps and bounds. Bhutan will be graduating from being a least developed country in 2023 as well. For the uninitiated education and healthcare are universal in Bhutan. In modern Bhutan, we have women topping
Important exams. We have female space engineers. One of them you saw in the video, just a while earlier, she was speaking, she was standing at a podium. We have quotas, we have women powering the Civil Society sector, you will see
What I mean when our panelists begin speaking. We have a woman leading the health ministry, a health minister, has worked hard to ensure, we’ve had only two deaths from covid-19 till date, and live in a virtually pandemic-free country, Knockenwood. Women have the
Mark and continue to trailblaze in various sectors. Our panels today will not only bear testimony to this but a real life examples. I wish I could say the same ah I I wish I could say the situation is the
Same for women in media but it is not as rosé. Male journalists outnumber women journalists by three times. Jabs last record tells us we have 92 male journalists and thirty female journalists. This gender imbalance reflects in the leadership too. Our media
Is young compared to elsewhere in the world. The oldest media, our national newspaper Quincel is only a little over five decades old. Despite being young, we haven’t been as progressive in recognizing female leadership even when there is the potential. The
National newspaper, Quincel had its first female chief editor in two thousand eighteen, the national broadcaster BBS has still not seen a female newsroom chief. But it did have a female managing director in 2008. As you can see, there are having great strides in some
Areas and baby steps and others. What can be said though is there’s been movement forward. We have women and girls changing the face of Bhutanese women and more Society for the better. Allow me to invite our first speaker to share her thoughts on the
Evolution of Bhutanese women and our roles in the public sphere with particular focus on governance and democracy. I think ah that was a beautiful I think introduction to our country. And the situation of women. I think actually you’ve
Covered a lot. Ah so I will also try to do my best. Ah basically I think I want to start with ah a quote you know from ah madam you know modelling all bride with all whom all of us know and heard
About the first female secretary of state in the history of the United States. She once said that success without democracy is improbable. Democracy without women is impossible. So let me also try to you know ah shed some light on the evolving
Situation of women in a young democratic kingdom. Bit more generally and also touch on the specifics I think of women in politics. That is already actually touched a lot on the general part. So I probably will ah zoom in much more on
The the specifics. basically you know Bhutan I think as already introduced by the former you know speakers like Doctor Ermila and and then the the video and also by Nange. Uh we are basically a very you know living in a very young
Kingdom that has survived you know deep in the folds and embrace of the mighty Himalayas. Land locked, isolated and yet shaped you know destiny and emerged to carve out our own unique identity on the global thanks I think largely to our
Enlightened and visionary kings starting from the first king onwards and today we are with the fifth king. Despite ah you know very small physical presence and very insignificant economic contribution to the world. I think we are still standing out ah you know as a
Proud nation. And ah parliamentary democracy was introduced in this country in the year 2008. Not you know again ah unlike in other countries not by a grassroot level revolution but from the top down as a gift from the golden throne. To empower
Citizens to further shape our future and strengthen the country. Ah because Raking’s ah you know decided that it is the right moment and you know although people were still not yet enlightened enough ah the our kings were so they decided
To you know shower this ah gift on us. We are still adjusting to this new system of governance and of course ah democratic culture along with the deeper awareness and consciousness that comes along with you know introduction of democracy is still in
Transition if I may as Nangi’s also said. It said it. At least I think when it comes ah when it concerns I think the role of women within the bigger picture of democracy in Bhutan it is definitely still in transition.
It’s really work in progress as ah you know you will see and you’ve heard already. After three very peaceful, successful and you know smooth democratic parliamentary elections ah since 2008. And now we are on the eve of the third local government elections on the
Twenty-2nd of this month. You know I think it pretty safe to say that political discourse in Bhutan remains very largely, very superficial. And politics merely a role play I would say. Highly personalized and very very male dominated as you can
You could also you know pick up from the data that Namgi shared. Uh you know so this is against you know the background of you know in the land of gross national happiness as Bhutan is you know famous for. Uh aware our development
Philosophy is guided by you know Buddhist ah you know principles of Ross National Happiness Uh which was conceptualized by our fourth king. Where more more than 50% of the population is female. Where you know metro lineal customs dominate our local
Culture. Uh and the way of life within which women inherit property passed on their daughter you know the properties to daughters. So mothers to daughters as Namgi was also mentioning. Where also men actually especially I know coming from western Bhutan men
Take a lot of pride in this fact that they take nothing from the house but they try to give back ah you know to the sisters and ah members of the family that leave behind in their in their you know maternal home. Where it is
Normal for grooms to move into the homes of their brides. Where you know women are very much in charge of the home and affairs around the house. Where the girl child is a favourite child and a wanted child unlike you know in our neighbouring
Countries. Where generally are highly egalitarian. And you know so this is, you know, such a progressive, almost enviable, I’m sure, by, you know, seen by many. And also, almost mythical image, you know, compared to the status of women and girls in our immediate neighbourhood.
In South Asia at least, you know. But yet against this background, you know, it will surprise you to know that it is still a very big deal to see or find women in leadership positions. So another level, you know, despite that very
Favourable, very mythically, you know, very romantic situation of women and girls in Bhutan. One can safely say that Bhutan is also no different from the rest of the world. If specially if we view, you know, through the magnifying glass and through the gender lens,
Much more closely. To give, you know, a better sense of this with some data. I you know at the as I said earlier you know we had the first I think parliamentary elections in 2008 And at that time we you know
Achieved 10 women in a seat in our parliament has 72 seats Uh twenty-five seats in the upper house and 47 seats in the lower house which is the house of people’s representatives. And in that in 2008 after the first parliamentary elections we had
10 women sitting there in Nepal ah so which meant ah we had something like 14 percent, 13. 88% women in parliament. Out of that ten, eight were elected and two appointed by the king, the eminent members that Namgi you know referred to ah in the
Upper house of the parliament which is called the National Council. Ah you know the 20th districts elect a member each and then there are five seats ah appointed by the king. And ah out of the five ah seats his majesty is always ensured right
In the very beginning. To appoint two women out of the five seats. So you know has been ah a saviour for us because at the second parliamentary elections in two thousand thirteen there was a huge backslide, you know. We
Went down from 10 women in the parliament to six women. Uh so, the percentage of women representation actually fell from almost 14% to 8%. which meant only four were elected and two again eminent members. Now, today, after the third parliamentary elections of two
Thousand eighteen, we have ah you know achieved the highest ever Bhutan has seen in our history. You know both ah pre introduction of democracy as well as post. We have 11 women currently in the parliament. Ah so it’s fifteen point three
Percent. Highest ever. Ah out of which again ah out of the eight three are in the upper house in the national council and eight are in the national assembly. And ah that’s the parliament ah but then across the in the two hundred and 5 ah
Local governments Ah again every five years we go in for ah you know democratic elections. And in 2011 after the first local government elections ah you know there is a pool of something like around one thousand five hundred ah
Roughly ah I would I rounded off to one thousand five hundred but actually it’s about one thousand four 454 seats in the local governments around the country. Imagine out of 1thousand4 hundred fifty-four, only 98 were women. And so that
Gave us six point nine percent as a women representation. But actually at the highest level in the local government, the most priced position who is the real decision maker in each local government. We call it the gap. Uh, which is like a
Chairperson of the local government. There was only one woman elected. Uh, in 2011. So you know, in terms of percentage at the highest level in local government, we only achieved zero point percent. Now, in 2016, when we had the second local elections, we
Managed double that of course. Uh with a lot of effort that specially my organization put in of mobilizing and you know, preparing women for the elections. Uh we managed to double it. So, which means we only manage to get two women
Elected in that election. Uh at the highest level. But otherwise, overall, from 6 9%, we now came to 11. 6%, which means we managed to get 178 women elected in the local governments. So I mean overall you know, I mean, as it is
Always said, 50% of the population in any country at any given time, you know, is women And so is, so it is in Bhutan too. Sometimes, in fact, 51percent too. So 50% of the population is basically being represented at the highest, you
Know, level, or in decision making positions, especially in elected offices. Let’s say the parliament by 15 And in the local governments by only less than one percent. In you know. Ah in the cabinet we have out of ten ah seats. We have ah you
Know only ah one ah women ah ah you know minister who is the health minister whom Namge just mentioned. And in the highest level of the civil service ah in the government. Ah after a very long long period we finally have achieved 20% in
The sense. We have ah you know his majesty the king appointed two ah female secretaries ah of the government. So finally we have 20% there and that position ah for a very long time we haven’t had women there. in the constitutional posts
Also at the highest level like in the, you know, we have four constitutional bodies like the anti-corruption, the election commission, the auditority, and the Royal Civil Service Commission. And in those positions, the in the chair position, we currently we are
Like 50% women because two of them, the anti-corruption and ah the Royal Civil Service Commissioner headed by women and ah the remaining in the amongst the second, the deputy level, the commissioners, we have something like 12% women because there is only one out
Seven was a woman. So on an average actually when I put all you know the ah organisations ah at the highest level together and take an average of women ah you know at the highest level. It basically translates roughly into an
Average of something like 17, 18 percent women ah in the leadership level in Bhutan. You know across the board. If you take elected and service et cetera. So, you know, then, you know, when you look at, when you see this kind of data,
Then, you know, it makes you doubt because I remember a few years, some years ago in an ah article for journal saying that I had myself co-authored and I said, actually, it’s a myth of equality, you know. On one hand, as I mentioned, presented
In the beginning, you know, it’s such a mythical, you know, almost unimaginable situation where everything so favorable and is so good and and and that is also not cooked up you know it’s really real. Ah of a very egalitarian you know very
Favourable ah strong position of women in society and it’s all there. Those pieces are there. But yet you know it is not really ah you know that myth of you know gender equality or equality in society Is not so much in sync with
These realities today as we speak from a data point of view. No. When you look statistics then they don’t really add up. So you know as I ah I put it in that particular article I remember seeing it really you know for Bhutan we
Are really ah a typical case of you know in a petroleum mold I said you know basically we are such a you know wonderful seemingly very you know beautiful metroliner society yet we ah seem to be stuck in a petroleum mold you know. Ah and
Is that a desirable trend? Definitely no. you know what comes to my mind is you know, is this really the outcome? you know, because we are talking about the role of women in the modern Bhutanese society. And then modern, what is modern?
Modern is really a product of, you know, all the development that has gone on so far, the progress that the country’s achieved, you know, a result of modern education, and you know, exposure of, you know, the educated, having travelled the
World and seen, you know, the, you know, development around the around the globe actually. And so you know my question is, you know, is this then what we see, this contrast of the myth of equality not being in sync with the actual reality. You
Know, is this really the outcome or the impact of the so-called development per se, the progress, the education exposure, the modernization of our society, you know? You know, what is our really society evolving into, you know? basically, it’s a myth of
Gender equality versus a reality of patriarchy. And patriarchy, I think, you know, patriarchal norms, values, you know, influence and dominate in all spheres actually. If we really examine, you know, very gender equality, and seemingly gender egalitarian society. If we really examine very deeply,
It, you know, patriarchal mountain values, you know, at a very subconscious level also. Seem to domin in all our fears actually. We have to be so careful. You know starting from home, in the workplaces, in school, you know whether it is
In media. You know in so in so many of our you know so called you know so-called, you know, age-old traditions and customs and you know, practices and rituals that, you know, we really uphold, Consider, you know, men to be superior to
Women, you know, in a very, very overtly actually in some cases, we have, where women in a way discriminated or subordinated actually. And this we have really seen ah affecting and impacting ah you know and really coming becoming an hindrance to women ah you
Know getting elected in in the elections. Ah whether it is in parliamentary elections. Ah whether it is in the local and particularly in the local government elections. Ah because for us ah we have been very intimately actually engaged. Ah my organisation has
Been ah has been intimate engaged in the local government elections. And we’ve seen ah you know there in some of the districts we have these local festivals where local leaders have to be you know dressed ah ah in monk robes and ride
Horses and you know ah attend let’s say the Punaka Domjin the famous the festival of Punaka. And to that there are certain yokes ah local governments of Timpu and Punaka had who have to participate and it’s always a problem because there are
Very strong women candidates whom we’ve prepared to participate in the elections. But ah you know the the the local mindset of you know the people and the communities is that you know if we elect women into those positions then it’s
Going to bring bad luck. Ah you know we might have famine, we might have diseases, whatever, you know all kinds of bad bad ah things will you know fall on our society and community and it’s not auspicious et cetera.
And then you know, how can you know it’s always been meant. So, how can women ah you know ride a horse and you know, dress as a monk and participate in the Puna Junction. Things like that, you know. And then
There are other rituals of, you know, offering, making offerings to local protector deities at the beginning of every important occasion where the local leader whoever is the highest in you know, the position, highest in position in that area. Uh or that
Organization must lead such a ritual. It’s called the offering the marching. And those have always been traditionally done by men. Obviously because you know men have always been there in the public sphere and women were not there before. So men have
Done it. But now it’s in the people’s you know brains and you know it’s been deep in their mindset that only men should do it. And if women do it it’s not in it’s not auspicious. So no so you know
So these are things that in a at a very subconscious level. You know these biases you know become an hindrance to women getting elected. Although they may be a they are in we have seen in many places in many local governments. There was
Stronger and better, more capable, more qualified women candidates who would have been better leaders. Yet they could not get elected just because of these kind of you know cultural gender stereotyped mindsets you know that really help people back from giving their votes to
Women. You know. So these unconscious you know ah biases really ah come in the way of women. And ah you know again talking about ah patriarchy and I remember in the you said the film was made by this I mean
The the film Red Palace and I’m sure many of you have seen that. We are also you know on one hand a very metrolineal, very you know ah respecting women regarding women in a very metroliner society. Yet you know we really celebrate the
Fellas you know. And I for me personally I feel you know ah I mean people always say then you know I mean people who have been to Bhutan I’m sure as doctor Ermila knows fallaces are painted all over the main
Entrance of the houses hung on every corner of the ah you know roof et cetera to keep the evil spirits away to protect the family et cetera. So you know it’s again I feel it’s a really ah a symbol of a very mature
Society you know. Where I mean women and modesty and male is celebrated and really you know something to be proud of you know. Ah so that’s for me it is a symbol of a macho macho society because we really celebrate the fellas. It’s goes
All over the place in the public sphere. So, you know, it’s, it is really ah, you know, for me, the other thing is that, I feel these things, these, these aspects make, you know, the role of women and for
Women to find the you know the befitting roles in modern Budney Society Quite. a challenge. And quite complex also. Because while you know women have changed and women are changing. We are you know adapting to the modern times and the opportunities that it
Offers. And it you know and the demands that are there. You know because we want to be out there. We want to be seen. We want to be heard. We want to you be at the table at the decision making ah you know in
The decision making levels et cetera. Ah and then of course we ah grappling ah and struggling with our you know the the gender stereotypical roles and which we don’t complain about of course ah triple roles. So women you know want to be in leadership
Positions and women even though we need to give leadership positions. It doesn’t mean that you give up on the home front you know. So those are there. But yet I think ah no, we are, we are so many, I think so many
Women who are in leadership today, I think the role models that we have. I think ah are actually paving the way and showing that women can do it because it’s just that you know as long as we don’t get the opportunities, there’s no way
For us to showcase our leadership. But I think our women who through the blessings of his majesty, the kings, you know, initiatives And that moved through various royal degrees et cetera. I think we had many strong role models, many role models that doctor
Also mentioned and then lately also we have many more current positions, they may be a handful but they are strong, strong role models. I’ll, I’ll just, welcome back to I think, talk about examples, and go into the specifics soon, I’d
Like to bring in Shrin Dolgar at this point, and then maybe talk about social, social progress now, so I’m as I introduced earlier, is the executive director of Renew has done a lot of social work, especially in an area that was
Stigmatized until very recently and even to this day continues a bit of stigma. So they’ve been pioneers in the field of helping women survivors enabling them in society. Giving them a very I would say emancipating them in a way as
Well and Her Majesty Her Majesty the Gallium has been such a pioneer leading this fearlessly also touched upon She talked about the myth of equality and the reality of patriarchy and even this area it seems to be so burst. So now
I’d like to invite Answering Dogar to talk about how women the roles of women have evolved over time especially in the context of social progress. Um you have to unmute Okay. Thank you. And hello everyone. Well as I have been
Introduced, I don’t want to, you know, repeat that. So, I would try to in the interest of time, I would like to straight away go into the into the topic. And we are talking about rule of women in Bhutan and I
Think it’s very evident in the in the what involvement initiatives and works that has been done. By our women in the royal family. And when I about the women in yeah I’m talking about their majesties, the queen mothers and her majesty
The queen, the present queen who have you know ah shown so much of strength. And led by examples. You know especially in the areas of ah the social ah social sector. And ah ah in in the in the areas of work
That I do. You know I have been ah working ah in the ah empowerment of women specially women who have ah women who are vulnerable and ah also you know are survivors of ah domestic violence, gender based violence, sexual abuse and ah
Ah sexual harassment and also ah in the areas of suicide, mental health, and ah trauma, ah these are the some of the areas that you know ah are silently ah born ah by our ah women and these are the areas
That cannot be seen. So in this area of her majesty my the patron of renew her majesty ah children has been a pioneer and has been so ah brave enough to break the silence of ah violence in our country. And ah
Has has been also the the actor who has ah taken up ah the ah domestic prevention of domestic violence 2 thousand thirteen act. Ah which is now ah very predominantly being used ah by all ah ah all service providers. And ah I I take this
Opportunity to thank her majesty for bringing women in the forefront and also also ah addressing gender equality, gender equality and you know so many areas that has been ah ah ah you know these these are areas that are very new to
Bhutan and even in times in memorial you can also see that ah the women strong women of Bhutan were always women who were you know in the in the ah rural of ah the leaders in the communities and also the the
The queens that were in the past. So with that I would like to also talk talk about an elector that when it was sometime in nineteen ninety Uh I was in college. I was in the third year of my college. And I
Remember that day when his majesty the fourth king of Bhutan came to visit the college that I was studying. And we were all preparing for the seven five year plan then. And we were all asked to come up with a a presentation and I
Was given the topic. You know this takes me back to the topic. Women’s role in development. Never did I imagine myself talking about it after how many decades? You know after college. And there I was talking about women’s representation in in the
Parliament. You know in the national and I was you know very innocently putting up and talking about you know the requirement for quota quota system 25 percent of women’s ah you know presence in the national assembly and his majesty was very candid you
Know and he did yeah there was a lot of discussion and his majesty talked about why you know we need that and why women not come you know, stand and ah become equal ah ah you know like come up and and face the
Reality you know to fight against your ah your positions. So never did I realise that ah we would have women representation in our assembly now. So why I am talking about this is I I feel at that time although I was very innocent. I
Did make a small tent or a small impression On ah our majesty And he registers very kind and ah he joked and he said oh you you boys in the college you must be you know harassing the women in the in
The college. So therefore in order to support them I am going to present you all a generator. You know electricity generator. And that’s how you know the college that I studied in college. We were ah we were given a generator generator
Which is still you know in the college now. So why I’m talking about is this is I did play my part. Although it was a very different topic. I did play my part. And you know made a difference in getting we we had
Lights. When the lights went off we didn’t have to stay in the dark. We had generator. And which gave us light. So I’m just putting it up as a as a joke. Or to to just lighten up the moods. But Then I promised
Myself that I am going to make a difference. In the development, in no matter how small a role I play, I must must make some some, ah, changes in the society. You know, that’s how ah, I began my career In renew. And ah, and
Ah, in renew, we have, you know, program such as prevention, intervention and and reintegration. So the services that we provide in this area has benefited women and has empowered them and maybe 1 day we hope that these these women would you know
Provide their services. The women who have been empowered now would lead by example. And provide this services. Two women who are you know also in the same situation and in the same position that they have been some time ago. So we ah
Provided our services about ah one hundred thousand one hundred and seventy-four thousand services. In ah renewed empower our women. And ah One of the core services that we have is the counselling services, the shelter services, the legal aid, you know and
Then the microfinance which is from the German Bank. Ah I think it’s called the bank in Germany. which is serving you know our women and one of the most ah most ah benefiting services that we have provided. It’s a livelihood skills development.
Together with the microfinance and the livelihood skills services we have been able to really you know ah create income generating ah services. And ah ah you know from that ah our women have ah really been empowered and you know we hope
That through this you know domestic violence and gender violence we can we can really ah prevent it in the future. For now I would like to just say this much. Maybe in the future in the later discussions. Questions may come
Up. And ah may I now hand over to Nangi. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Ah from the two speakers you’ve heard that ah not everything is ah special happiness in the town. Although we are guided by the development philosophy when you
Really take apart the pieces then you see that like, you know, how you have, I always like to compare to a mosaic, an even glass painting, right? There are different pieces. When you look at them carefully, some of them are not
Perfect. But when you move back, and then you look at the whole picture, it does appear to be beautiful. We aren’t a perfect society. And I think, the panel here tonight is very candid about this. Ah, but we also discussing things that
Work in pandemic, things that are being done correct examples like and moving away from governance and social the social sphere. We want to move to who is actually a real trail base blazer. So she entered the field of entrepreneurship when the word entrepreneur itself
Wasn’t being flung about, wasn’t mainstream. Um only in retrospect, are we applying the term to she she entered the field of travel when travel was an entirely new concept to many many Bhutanese Um. Sonam if you could share with us what your
Journey’s been like, how you got into travel and basically starting in a sector that was not women weren’t leading as you were in the time and if you could share how the evolution has happened from your time and what you see today in
Amsterdam. Good evening to everyone. I hope you can hear me and especially good evening to Ermala. I’m so happy to see you. After many many years. Really nice. I I was so delighted to know that you are on the panel. So my greetings
To you from Bhutan and Mila first. Okay? And now as Namgi would want to hear about my getting into business It’s been a very interesting journey for me. I mean it was those days in the nineteen ah home maker raising my children. Ah I think
By then I already had about three children. And ah you know it it just came along and I just fell into it. And ah it’s all without the plan but I was just pushed into it and I just took it on. And like ah in
Those days in the government I mean like if your husband was working with the government and you were not allowed to get in you know do or get yourself in into business and say that but somehow they were pursued that
And then I also happened to be very lucky to be in a in in the position that I am in now. And ah so it’s been a very interesting journey and then I started my travel business in nineteen eighty-five And ah
Comparing to now and that time when we are working is is is like when a look back is ah I I I feel it’s such a big change with the new technology now and those days. And I started my business specially with the
Ticketing, catering to ah making arrangements to all the government officials travelling our side. And ah being the only I mean I would say that I think I was one of the first woman who got into it and ah like I
Said I’ve been lucky and then those days if you had to you know when you have to make a tribal itinerary. Now you have to go to the offices with two thick books which is called ABC book and that was the you know,
You have to make all the travel itinerary, and reading that book, and then, not like these days, just click on a button and then when you get all the information. And it’s been a very fun and exciting journey, and, you could really feel, and
Then I have so many friends, those days, you know, when I was doing this, and they say, oh, you are the one who actually met my first ah ah travel arrangement who did the ticketing to my to the first
Trip to abroad. So you had that kind of a connection, personal connection and then of course and how we had to do those things but we had to get all our ticketing from Calcutta. And there was no true care flights. We had to get them
Through the post through Baktugra and things like this. And all the item race, everything we had to get through the phone. And of course we didn’t have ah Uh I’m like a communication system was not as efficient as now. Those
Days we had to call and then Trump call it was. So you had to make a Trump booking which took us almost about two to three hours to connect ourself to India to get all the information. So of course then you you give all the
Information. They will do all the ticketing and send it up. And sometime well they are lapses where people you know where things goes wrong and you can’t make any changes. And sometimes people will miss the flight. And they were not so
Happy with your service. But they had no choice because had to travel with me but I was the only one who was doing the you know doing the oriented travel arrangements. So we Joe can then connect ourself with the clients and then bonded very
Well. So it was been a very fun fun time at you know how I started my business. So and then after that we moved into tourism. And that was in 1990. Early 90s. When we we moved to tourism and it was in trekking.
So started track and I was working with all sudden I realised that I was working with all men. So I had all my tracking staff and you know I was only the person who was actually ah when I look back
And I said it was specially going trekking and travelling ah I mean like you know doing I did all the snowman track and I did all the travel ah ah covered all the trekking roads those days and then suddenly I
Realized that all the men. But 10, 15 men and then there I was leading. And so, it’s when I look back, I feel that I have achieved quite a bit and I feel very satisfied with what I’ve done. I think the interesting thing
About you you never it was it was never a conscious decision to be a part I think to be a pioneer or a trailblazer. You were just doing things like you were saying in a way almost going with the flow. But then
Now when you look back I think you do realize that it was very radical at that point in time. yeah it was when I mean like, you know, with no it just, I was just thrown into it and then I just took it on and
Everything moved very smoothly and and it’s been a lot of a lot of excitement and fun working with what I’ve been doing and then of course, working for yourself and it gave you so much of a freedom and you could do what you want.
And then, certainly, if you, you know, you make up your mind and you do what you need to do if you have a clear for heart and things like that. So if you put your mind into it it’s nothing stops you from
Doing it. So I had no problem doing what I wanted to do. So I think Salam’s experience is so important to share with everybody who’s joined in the panel and whether you’re a Bhutanese or not because I think a lot of Bhutanese young
Women and even young men think that it’s only in this day and age that women are so independent and so powerful and so rebellious but then I think the original rebel is women like you I’m so glad that we have here on the panel today
La. Um I want to move to for a while and you bring in your views on how when you speak about gender, you’re talking about the myth of equality versus reality of patriarchy and how you feel at when you actually look through the
Gender lens that there are so many deficits when it comes to gender and put down. So, if you could maybe your comments on how our government has worked with gender ah have they been improvements ah what is there a critique or appreciation of
What has happened so far particularly how we move ahead with the five year plan so then ah we have a development measured and guided by something called the five year plans and ah this was brought in by from India again so I
Just wanted to hear ah views on this specially since you’ve worked in this area for so long now? Yeah okay yeah thank you Namge ah basically I think government ah you know specially as you also mentioned earlier, the under the, you
Know, umbrella of the National Commission for Women and Children. I think have always been making, you know, efforts to try and mainstream gender because Bhutan is signatory to many international conventions including you know, the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination
Against women. In particular, I think and then various other conventions. So therefore ah and then of course the most recent being the SDG goals, you know, that have to be met as well. So, I think right from the, you know, tenth, five-year
Plan onwards, government actually has been making concerted efforts, the national plan of action for gender, you know, from 2008 to 2013 in the tenth five-year plan. Uh was one initiative that was led by the National Commission for Women and Children to try and
Mainstream gender across all the agencies and sectors. Then in the eleven five year plan I think ah you know it was further mainstreamed and I think into the plan proper. By actually ah having within the five A plan itself ah national
Key result area which is ah ah you know which was titled gender friendly environment for women participation. And ah you know in fact that was actually around the time that was benew the organisation that you know ah which I driving and which I
Am leading right now. Ah was conceptualised around 2012 when the and mandated by all the elected women who were elected in 2008 and two thousand and ah eleven. And we ah you know came together to be a networking platform to really facilitate
You know and build capacity and confidence of women. And of course to mobilize also and prepare women for future elections et cetera. Ah you know so that time after we were kind of conceptualized and we were you know beginning to
Operate was the, you know, the, the 11th five year plans, NKRA on the gender-friendly environment, which had a particular, you know, key ah, you know, key performance indicator ah, which was to draft a legislation to ensure quotas for women in you know,
Elected offices including parliament and local government, and this was like really in black and white, in the eleventh plan. Which really got us excited as NCWC and Binu. And that was when in two thousand and thirteen right after the second parliamentary
Elections. You know benewed together with the National Commission. We organized the first you know national conference on women in politics. Where we brought together some you know over 200 people and we had you know the the government we we actually
Were trying to rope in the Prime Minister to deliver the keynote address because we were so excited by the government commitment as well to draft a legislation, you know? But, yeah, low and behold, in two thousand sixteen, the government withdrew ah, there,
Because, you know, within the government’s private plan, this key performance indicator was there, and the political party that actually won the elections and the second parliamentary election, which was the PDP, had actually also made a pledge to draft legislation. So, it
Was really in sync. The party pledge was sync with the five year plan and that really got us excited. But it was not to be in two thousand sixteen ah the party dropped its pledge. And we were bit disappointed. However ah I think in the
Twelve five year plan that was from two thousand eighteen to two 0 twenty-three. Ah the you know once again the government you know continues ah the I think ah basically led by the Gross National Happiness Commission. And ah together with the National Commission
Did not give up and ah once again ah they have formulated ah national key result area ah called gender equality and women empowerment but yeah so at the moment, that is what the National Commission for Women and Children is driving. Uh we,
We knew, we have MOU with the National Commission of Women and Children and we try to work particularly on you know, a plan of action that the NCWC has drawn up. Called the National Plan of Action for Gender Equality in electoral
Offices. So, that was primarily for for raising awareness and you know, building capacity and yeah and we are trying to advocate very strongly for temporary special measures to be adopted ah by either tweaking policies or having some kind of legislation. But
Ah we’ve not gotten very far with it. And we ah as Namge you are also aware ah Benu has led and together with the National Commission for Men and Children We also launched ah the Bhutan Women Parliamentary Caucus which we are hosting and that
Is also, you know, an instrument or a platform within Binew and with the, with the, in partnership with NC double C and with the parliament, we try to orient parliamentarians and trying to, you know, really sensitize parliamentarians and try to work on a partnership
With the parliament to try and work towards some sort of you know, ah legal, legislative, you know, transformations or changes, introductions to have temporary special measures in place. Because at the moment ah I realise ah increasingly ah you know given the current
Situation. I feel that unless we have some sort of ah policy tweak or a legislative tool. Ah it is going to be very difficult for Bhutan to meet particularly its obligation towards achieving gender equality. You know ah within the framework of the SDG.
Because ah SDG goal number five is to achieve planet fifty 50 by 2030. And we are nowhere ah you know ah to reaching that goal. Ah you know forget planet fifty fifty. I think it’s going to be difficult even to
Achieve you know 2018. So we hope that you know with the efforts that the government’s making. And with the little things that we are able to do as the civil society organisation. And of course we are constantly working together with media organizations like
Jab and you know and others ah we ah hope that ah somewhere along the line ah you know there there’s more you know ah people who agree with us and we can try to get some sort of a temporary special measure in
Place for Bhutan otherwise without that I think no matter what we do it’s going to be very difficult because sometimes I think top down measures are required because bottom up you know just simply through awareness raising and mobilising, preparing it’s not
Enough to you know raise ah the numbers of women in leadership. And I think some special measures are required. And just like back in 2000 1998 you know when his majesty the fourth king issued a royal degree to the national assembly to do
Something about you know raising women representation. That year, in the national assembly, you know, I think the women representation ah, then, in pre-democracy days, went up from, let’s say zero to 14%. So I think, you know, some, some,
Sort of a top down measures are required, if you want to translate, the good will in constitution of Bhutan as well as all our international you know all our international commitments. I think there is no other way. I think we have
To find a fast track measure. Less, less something, sir. Thank you. Um we really doubt I think has really pointed out the glaring gaps. When it comes to gender in between society and I know you feel very passionate about this because
You worked so long and so hard in this fear and I have worked along with you as well and you’ve opened my eyes to a lot of things that are not really visible at first sight. Uh we have some questions coming in.
So I want maybe Amchungolkar to take this. Um so the question is actually from someone called Tring Choden via Facebook and the question is do you think with modernization? Society has actually progressed in our thinking about gender equality or have we somehow regressed
And still struggle with accepting strong women beyond women leaders who look at and behave like men. So what do you think? Like do you want me to repeat the question or is this clear? Yeah, I think the second part Society has actually progressed
In our thinking. Do you think we progressed in our thinking on gender equality? Or have we somehow regressed and still struggle with accepting strong women? Um instead we seem to be accepting women who look at and behave like men apparently. Do
We have to be like that to be accepted as the question Imam? Well, I, for this question, I look at myself And I consider myself a very strong woman. Who can make a lot of difference in wherever, wherever I am
Working. But ah I don’t think I look and act like a man. So taking that I think ah, I don’t think we need to look like a man and act like a man. To be accepted. Ah, as you and and in
The in the areas of gender equality. It’s how you how you really educate how you accept and how you really behave in the sense like in your understanding of being sensitive to different genders is what I I feel you know we
Need to really work on and not really you know fight for our rights. You know was ah I think in Bhutan ah our policies, our ah you know we all know that our monarchs have given us a lot of you know a platform the
Equity you know is there. How you utilise it in our hand. And ah we we, in, like in other countries, we don’t have to really be a feminist. We don’t have to really fight for our rights. You know, it’s how you
Take up your role In, in really, ah, not being discriminated. And not being, you know, bullied or harassed. No. So, ah, what I, I, I, actually, I’m trying to say is, you know, the second part of the question, where we don’t
Need to really behave like a man to be accepted by another man. You can still be a woman and still be accepted. If we as you know as a society know how to really provide support to each other. So this is ah what
I think. I don’t think we have regressed. I think ah gender equality. You know ah is moving forward. With so many ah very strong leaders in the country. And ah you know the representation here is here itself. That you know we will
Only progress. It’s just that ah it needs time. And we should not be we should not really give give ah ah loose hope. I think the policies are there. The ah you know platform is there. It’s just that the implementation part is in the
Hands of you know all the women were there to really support each other. Thank you. Thank you and I don’t think it’s just I think it really is on the individual as well like I’m Singh was saying and it it
Isn’t just all the owners isn’t just on institutions but then it’s really about being so being me, Nam Gizam, being none of us are men look like men or behave like men. Like you were saying but I think in the Bhutanese context we do have
Some sayings when, you know, the idea of strength, power is associated with the man, like was referring to the and so I think it it stems from that. Um Amson I wonder if you could take this question. Um it comes from Mr. Reinhard Wolf, the
President of German Patani Malaya Society and he asks, when do you think we’ll have a female prime minister in Puttan now? Um you have to unmute yourself love. Good evening Reinhardt. Good to know that you’re also on this
Program, yeah? And I trust that you come up with this question. Well, I think it’s very difficult to predict when we will have a Lady Prime Minister. Well, although we have lot of capable female who can take on the job. But I
Think it’s from my point of view, I feel is up to the you know, herself, whether she wants with the decision, whether she wants to pursue it, with ah why did you, you know, I’m like, to take such a huge task
On yourself, whether you want to really go, or you want to, you, you choose to be what you want to do, right? So, but we, even we, when we have lot of, good candidates, but this decision is hers. But sometime
When you think that even if you want to do it, but then you are you have so much responsibilities, like you had to play the role of a mother, you have to play the role of a wife and then you have to play
A lot of roles. The women have much more role to play than the men. I’m sorry mister Reinhardt. But that’s the that’s the truth. And if you want to be a courier, strong minded career person, we have lot of capable women who can
Definitely be a prime minister. And I’m sure they will make a good prime minister. I mean I’m sure there are women who want to get up and stand for Prime Minister if there is an environment conducive to her being a whole woman. If she
Wants to be a parent, she can be a parent. Um if she wants to be the Prime Minister she can. If she wants to be more. If she’s allowed to juggle all this with the kind of support that I think men receive. I
Think any woman is capable. I’m finso can have had in depth discussions on this. Thanks for sharing that. You were mentioning how women juggle time if they have the time and resources they can. I also want to touch upon this topic of
Volunteerism. Uh which is suddenly picking up now. I think among millennials and the younger generation but you happen to be the OG as we say in urban lingo. Original volunteer. Um tell us how this volunteerism happened and what made it possible for you to
Volunteer and what caused you to volunteer love? Okay, on the volunteerism. Now, we we, you know, when we you will hear with so many criticism saying we are oh this is not functioning or the government should do this you know we had
So many criticism we are only criticizing but we are not doing anything so me and my other three friends like I’m Ogan Derma and I’m Blinky and things like this so we had this kind of a discussion in fact
When I was going to England in when I was going to see Dragana to see her and attend to her. And that’s when I got to spend more time in Delhi waiting for my visa. So I’m I was staying with so then we were just
Talking as a woman and then she was saying oh my goodness this doesn’t function. This doesn’t function. You know so all what you hear is the system is not functioning. So then I and we came up with an idea. He said
Instead of criticizing. I said let’s try to do something and see if we can make a change. So we to make a change and to volunteer ourselves will be good to pick on with the hospital. Because hospital is where a lot of people come and
That’s we thought you know we could do something to make a little change. So then I’m of India she said okay then let’s do it. So I said okay ah dinky is a professional trained nurse. And I’m Damcho and I’m Ogundama. So they were all
Health background who was trained. I think ah they went to England and in New Zealand to be trained as in the nursing. So they came back and they’re working but they were no longer in the service. So, and our I’m the one who didn’t,
You know, have any of this background but then we built this idea together and then, I’m Ogan Derma and we wrote a proposal to the hospital and gave a proposal to the hospital offering a free service. But the hospital, they took one
Year to take offer. So anyway, they agreed to sign an MOU and then we thought what we could do. So, the first thing what we came up was with queuing up to create an awareness, queuing up us. If you go to the hospital, you
Will see everybody rushing. You know, things are, so we thought maybe let’s see if we can also create a little awareness, then also educate people, saying the government is providing a free service. So, we should also respect and not demand we want
To give both ah help assisting the hospital and also creating real awareness. That we as a citizen should be also responsible and we should also be grateful to the government for the free services that we enjoyed now. So that’s how we
Started and then we signed an agreement for about two years. And then we ah initial idea was we would maybe do on two days in a month on a road basis and if you could have a more volunteers. But we got about
Hundred plus people who signed up. And gave a induction introduction and things like this and then presentation to the hospital and with all the volunteers. But then eventually it’s it didn’t it did not work that way. So but dealing with
People is not easy and we had a lot of young girls who was volunteering and then it is you know in the hospital how people are. They’re demanding services and then they get quite aggressive at times. So literally came down to just a
Few of us and then we realized if you want to volunteer ah you just don’t do it just for the sake of doing it. You have to have the heart to do it and then enjoy what you’re doing. To make a difference. So then
We had four dedicated members who would ah who was willing to do this. And then for me specially okay we signed up and we offered our services. So we have to make it a you know a difference and let the hospital
Feel that we are not just you know fooling around. So took this shoulder on myself and then from two years we went up to three and a half years. Not realising that it part time supposed to be couple of hours
In a day but it came to a full time. Working from morning nine till five and I would go on till about 1011 But you would have lot of people who need it service. From all walks of life. And then we, and then I
Started enjoying, and like other friends as well, and then we continued to work for three and a half years, and then but that’s how you see at least queuing is little bit in place, and then people respect standing in your line, and not
Just overcrowding yourself. So, basically, I enjoy doing such work. So I think yours is such a fun example to illustrate how women if you really take women on board, we are hardly ever a part of the problem but always
A part of the solution and I think that’s so great. I think your examples, so good, and thank you for sharing your story, love. I’m Fin Sok, I want you to answer this question, even though I was the one who made the reference,
Because I know for a fact, that you have worked with them and have a lot to share. But if you could keep it brief because we’re almost starting 1130 now So the question Am is you all at some point refer to the
Indian experience. India indeed has a quota for women even and specially at a local and village level. Are you in touch with civil society representatives from India in order to draw conclusions from the Indian experience and this comes from Frank Hoffman
Lamfinzuk. If you could answer this question now. yes actually in India, we worked very closely with the Hunger Project. That basically has been working with the Panchayat women specially in the Panchayats because in India, they have this although
By the 73rd and 74th amendment of the constitution of India, there is a you know, mandatory 33% reserved you know, seats for in all the Panchayats. But the states have now actually gone further to increase it to 50% in most in fact almost all
The states of India. They’ve gone up now to 50% women in the Panchayats. Because they say you know I mean when women make up 50% of society why should it be thirty-three percent? It should be 50%. So you know that
Was very inspiring for us and in fact we’ve had the opportunity when we had the funds available to also take our women on you know some of our elected women from local governments to you know have some exposure and sharing
Experiences with Bajayats in in India. Uh in you know South of India, in Kerala, also in Gujarat and in Delhi. We have actually done some exchange with them. And we’ve had resource people from the Hunger Project coming over to Bhutan
Also and we’ve done some quite some good work together. So yes we are in in touch with this particular organization in India which they work across seven or eight states. Uh yes and there are I mean the how these women in the Panchayats
Work after they are elected through the quota system is very interesting and very inspiring and you know ah it was really helpful for our women to see them and they in fact some of our women came back with you know highly
Inspired and got some good ideas and that really helped them to you know do new things in their own local governments here as well and it really moved them to see ah because in compare to the women serving in Punjab in India. Our women are
In a fairly comfortable position where they are almost like civil servants know they get salaries and you know they get travel allowances and all that whereas in India in the Panchayats you know you are really on your own. You barely
Get 200 bucks to just attend ah assembly that’s all. They don’t get salaries et cetera. So from that point of view also ah women felt that they need to do more. So those women who able to benefit from, you know, meeting women in Panchayat in
India. Ah, really felt you know, that they needed to do much more. They needed to work harder in Bhutan. So, it, it is a really, I always say that, for our women ah, in local governments, they don’t have to go further than India to really
Learn in exchange. Ah, and pick up ideas from there. Last sum, last sum, thank you. I’ll be good to begin wrapping up, but I have a very specific question for Anton Doka, it’s an area that we haven’t touched and it’s such an important area.
Um, especially this year, her majesty, the queen actually, really spearheaded and actually was a catalyst for the mental health movement I would say. Um she’s instituted a separate section in the hospital for mental health care and wellbeing. Instituted the board for certified counsellors.
She’s the first certified counsellor in Bhutan. Um the question I have for you is you know we whenever people talk about Bhutan and gross national happiness is bound to come up. Always comes up. But I want to ask you how happy are Bhutanese
Women in Bhutannam? Very interesting question. It’s a million dollar question and ah to that I I really don’t know how happy they are but if you ask me how happy you are, I am a very happy person. You know and ah I I hope everybody
Is happy but which is not. You know ah the happiness of a person does not only depend on ah what you have. Or who you are. Or ah where you are. You know happiness depends upon your mental state of mind. And
I think ah if you really look at the state of mind I think ah a lot of our people in Bhutan unfortunately I ah as per my experience and the women that I have seen have ah a lot of issues. You know most I feel
Like ah if this the payment centre ah initiated by her by her majesty ah the queen of Bhutan at the right time. You know we ah it was sort for a very long time. I remember you know about 20 years ago you
Know we were asking, we were talking about it, discussing about this issue And ah many people didn’t understand what mental health issues was. So finally now the time has come. You know the time to provide services have come. And ah it
Came at a very opportune time. When you know ah you know when the issues did not go out of hand. I think we still have ah time to address it. And ah you see a lot of ah cases of depression, panic, anxiety,
Trauma, all you know domestic violence. These are all ah triggered by you know alcohol. These the also especially women when we touch menopause. There there are a lot of things. Complications that go around menopause. You know women ah loose ah their interest in ah
Not only in relationship but also in many intimate things you know ah within the family and also they become lonely the the hormonal you know that ah changes that take place has a hand over you know it has power over us and if you don’t
Understand what is happening to you at the right time you know it it causes a lot of problems for and your family. And also like you know there is a lot of child abuse. There is a lot of ah ah rape, suicide, so many
Things you know. That should have been identified at a younger age. When when children are growing up. You know where where we don’t have the expertise and it has been carried up. To you know at the adulthood. And it has not been
Addressed. And it becomes a full blown then disorder. And you know when you to the hospital. There are so many we have very less psychiatrist. And ah you know there are so many issues and I think I think ah ah I cannot talk about ah
Everyone but ah the women that I have seen have undergone you know ah basically needs a lot of help and not everybody is happy. And there is a section of society who are vulnerable and will be going through a lot
Of ah mental health issues. So ah you can come in but that’s where you come in. Ah women like you come in to help, to guide women and then to provide them the support that is required. Like you were saying
There are gaps but the gaps are being filled and you telling the story is showing us that we are moving ahead. Um by accepting the fact that not everybody is happy in Bhutan. Women may not be happy in Bhutan as well. But there’s
Something that can be done about it. So thank you so much Answering for sharing this. If I could hear very short closing remarks from and so basically about the challenges and opportunities you see for women in a modern society like
Amsunam do you want to go first La? Um you’ve muted yourself if you could unmute. Now, is it okay? Yes, yes. Yeah. Now, you can hear me. Okay, sorry. Yes, ma’am. Oh, what was the question again, yeah? Um if you want to or
Challenges, do you see for Pudmese women in modern Bhutanese Society? Oh, I think the opportunity now in the modern world for the Buddhist Society for all the upcoming young girls. Uh I think there’s no end to it especially with
The technology. Uh you can see lot of young girls coming up and with different ideas and because you can get all the informations from the you know, Google and from, there’s so much information that you, you can get, so people, these days,
You don’t even need to go anywhere, you can just sit in your, one room and then just, if you’re a very internet savvy, and you can do anything, so I can see lot of young girls, and there’s no end to
It, I can see they, they can really go very far, and, and then of course, because they open to, they have lot of exposure now comparing to those days. So they have lot of opportunity I can see you know
Ahead of them. There are lot of capable young girls. Uh I see they’re very enterprising too. Thank you so much Amsanam. Thank you yeah. Um I think for me I want to actually to answer this question. I also want to
Build on the question that was asked earlier by somebody saying to be a strong leader. Do you have to act like a man? Uh and be accepted in Bhutan. Oh yeah. Um Ashley she actually sent one back. So if you could
Just listen to this before you answer. She said her question was a little misunderstood. What she was trying to say was get our view on Bhutanese Society’s acceptance of strong women. Women who raised their voice and do not fit into the
Traditional of how or what a woman should be. So what are your views on that? Is Bhutanese Society accepting of strong women Emela? Um so if you could just put that in. Okay okay. Yeah. Yes. Uh actually I think Witness
Society on the whole I would say is very flexible and very accepting. Very you know and I think so long as we dare to be strong and just like you know you in the conversation you had with Amsalam earlier. You know.
I think as long as we dare to be there and as long as we dare to be who we are. I think society is willing to accept us as we are. but I think that confidence has to be in us to
Be to be able to you know project ourselves as we want to be. So I think ah I would my answer would be yes I think our society is quite accepting. So it’s just that we shouldn’t hesitate. Because the the the
Larger the bigger picture and the environment is not very conducive because the the bigger you know the the thoughts ah are that you know leadership is for men. Politics is for men. So therefore you know in order to be accepted
You must ah ah be ah you know the typical you must fit into the typical mode of you know being a meek and being a very modest and humble woman. So I think that’s not completely true for Bhutan I would say in
Bhutan. I think everything is as we say. You know I think as long as we dare to be. I think people are willing to accept us. I think we have to be brave to you know just be ourselves. Um and then from that point of
View I feel that because of that I think because of the kind of society we are you know given the complexities that I had presented earlier. I also feel also I see a huge opportunity for Bhutan to actually create instead of you
Know falling into the trap of a petroleum mold that you know we see in the world around us and therefore, we feel to be modernized to be, you know, accepted by the rest of the world. We need to, you know,
Also copy and copy paste, you know, even traits of leadership. I feel we have huge opportunity given the you know the strong metro linear traditions we have. We have the opportunity to really create a metrolineal mode of leadership
As well. So that we can groom our young boys and men in the future to be you know ah to be more you know caring, more compassionate, more you know honest you know these qualities that are more inherent inherently female. I think
These can be nurtured in boys, young boys and men. So that in the future I think you know not so long not find the future I would say. We can actually have a more balanced you know mode of leadership. Uh there’s a
Good blend, the best of both worlds as we say. The best of the patriarchal norms, best of the, you know, metrolineal norms. We can actually blend I think Bhutan has that environment and I think that is a huge opportunity for us.
Because often when we do our leadership you know exercises and we look for you know traits. I think most of the time, the kind of trades that we look in leaders, whether they are men women. I think most of the traits are very
Inherently inherently there, naturally in women. You know, whether it is, you know, you want a caring, you want a honest, you want a very, you know, responsible the characteristics that are there in women. I think naturally, I think these are, you know,
Things that can be nurtured in men as well. So, I think we have a huge opportunity, opportunity in that I would say, for ah, nurturing, for really shaping and nurturing of you know feminine mold of leadership. Yes, thank you so
Much. I think that’s really beautiful and such a unique opportunity for Bhutan. Um Doctor Klein had actually asked about women related studies. I wanted to answer this and save it for the end and say we don’t have gender studies in Putana
Or in the education curriculum but this is an opportunity for our ministry of education to explore I think and then to add women to to make women more visible in the curriculum and then to make it more acceptable and something to aspire
Towards. I think from a young age and also going back to the question about strong women leaders are we accepting. I just want and I want to actually attest to what Finsok has shared. We are a flexible society open to change. I want
To give you one example of women think kuru. Now kuru is a traditional game of darts in Patan. When women first started playing that there was human cry all over the country. If there were hailstones or a hailstorm they would blame it
On the women thing the darts. If something went in nature even the women were claimed to we said we were going against the force of nature. But guess what? Just last month in our neighbourhood there was a huge group of men and women playing
Darts together. And when they saw me they said can you not put it on social media though? And the women were winning at the game and the men said we want these women on my team. So imagine this happened within
The span of three years. So change can really happen. And there’s so much opportunity for Bhutan and on that note I want to close the panel and thank all our panelists for your time tonight. I want to hand over to
Doctor Klein who is the head of the regional office in South Asia. Yeah, thank you very much. Um first of all, excellencies parliamentarians and dear ladies and gentlemen for this really very good deep and insightful discussion. Thanks especially to all our
Panelists with home Sonam Bangmo, Miss Zahum Banchuk, Chauden, Mrs. Chering Dolka and to our excellent moderator Mrs. Namgai Sam. Thanks of course also to you Doctor Harts, vice president of the German Bhutan Himalaya, a society for your continuous support. Yeah, we I
Think we had and witnessed just a very good discussion and we in belief that everywhere in the world there is still a lot of room for entrusting women with the responsibilities they deserve in all facets of life but also in our societies as a
Whole. So again thank you very much for the discussion. Um I could proudly share with you that also in our foundation we witness a new chapter Um we just see that in the first time of our history, we have now a women
As the CEO in place. So we are very very happy to have her with us now. Thank you very much again Um especially to the colleagues from the foundation Uh my dear colleagues missus Lupur, Hasidra, thanks to the colleagues in Bavaria, Mister
Shanira and Mister Isayons. Thank you for the communication support. Missus Mishra and to Mister Bresnik. Special thanks to Mrs. Kama Jordan, the alumnus of our foundation. And of course in the name of foundation in South Asia I, could say very happily that we
Will continue this online series on Bhutan and of course we are very happy that we have already started concrete active activities in Bhutan with our partner Bhutan Media Foundation. So again at the end I would like to hand over these quite unique certificates of
Thank you. Uh to all of you. Um I I deeply hope that we will see each other in person. In Bhutan in India or in Germany in person Thank you again for this late night discussion at least for us here in South
Asia. I. wish to all of you a very good Christmas time especially to the listeners in in Germany and around the world. And have of course a very happy and prosperous and healthy new year. Two thousand twenty-two. Thanks a lot and
Good night from South Asia.