The Differences Between North and South Wales

This video is entitled: The Differences Between North and South Wales
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Trevor Taylor’s contact information:
TUDNO TOURS
Telephone: 07751 315700
Email: bookings@tudnotours.com

This is Greg Thomas and welcome to the Welsh American channel! In early October of 2023, my wife BJ and I had the grand honor of spending a few days in North Wales. One of our tour guides was Trevor Taylor the proprietor of Tudno Tours. If you are traveling to North Wales in the future, I encourage you to contact Trevor for an exceptional touring experience. In the comments section below, I will leave his complete contact information. He comes highly recommended.

Trevor is very knowledgeable about North Wales and was the Head of Geography at Llandudno’s secondary school for 27 years. Trevor welcome back to the channel! Last time… we discussed the TOP 6 places to visit in beautiful North Wales.

Trevor… today we are going to discuss the differences between North and South Wales. Cymru is a varied and very beautiful country. Today we will discuss some of its unique diversities.

1. North Wales and South Wales both have their own unique charm and appeal. Each region offers its own distinct landscapes and attractions. I believe most people would say there is a “cultural” difference between the North and the South. Being a former geography instructor, is there a geographic pattern that may have led to these differences?
2. When many people think of Wales… they think of mountains. I read that if Wales were flattened out, it would have a larger land mass than England! Can you tell us a bit about the major mountain ranges and the effect they have had on the nation?

3. Is the climate different between the North and South?

4. In the mid-80’s I had the pleasure of visiting South Wales specifically an area called, “Little England beyond Wales” (applied to an area of southern Pembrokeshire and southwestern Carmarthenshire). What is the reason for this phrase?

5. Trevor, the Welsh language can have different styles, and words that people use across the country. Some of the differences between the north and the south of Wales appear to be noticeable. They can have different words for the same meaning. What is the reason for this difference?

6. Is there a difference in the political divide between North & South Wales?

Greetings this is Greg Thomas and welcome to the Welsh American channel in early October of 2023 my wife PJ and I had a grand tour and the grand honor of spending a few days in North Wales and one of our tour guides was Trevor Taylor the proprietor

Of tno Tours you are traveling to North Wales in the future I encourage you to contact Trevor for an exceptional touring experience in the comments section below I’ll leave his complete contact information he comes highly recommended Trevor is very knowledgeable about North Wales and was the head of

Geography at fledo secondary school for 27 years Trevor welcome back to the channel thank you thank you thank you great good to see you again it’s good to see you thanks again for joining us last time we discussed the top six places the visit in beautiful North Wales and today

We are going to discuss the differences between North and South Wales C is a varied and very beautiful country today we’ll discuss some of its unique diversities so you ready Trevor yeah I’m ready you fire your questions at me and I’ll do my best to answer them all right

Sounds great well North and South Wales both have their own unique charm and appeal and each region has its own distinct landscape and attraction I visited the South Wales in the 80s I visited North Wales in which you were one of our tour guides in October of

Last year and I believe that most people would say there’s a cultural difference between the North and the South I mean Heaven Knows in the United States there’s a incredible difference between the North and the South the South where the mountain ranges are and it tends to

Have an effect on people’s culture and view of the world so that’s kind of what we would like to discuss today as I said most people would agree that there’s a cultural difference between the North and the South and being a former geography teacher uh is there a geographic pattern or some difference

That may have led to North Wales being a little different than South Wales absolutely I mean we we’re we’re a nation that’s that’s made bi mountains and it’s the the location of the mountains that has the big big effect on our culture um you can divide it into

North and South when you said you wanted to do out the regions I drew a very rough sketch map and I could I could only get it down to about 10 different areas that one got to have that one there is a north south divide but even

Within the North and within the South there are different areas and it is down to the geography um you got the Cambrian mountains which run all the way through the middle part of Wales and very very few people live in the middle parts of Wales it’s it’s the most sparely

Populated area of Wales so as you’re driving from the north what when you’re along the North Wales Coast uh that’s definitely North Wales when you’re on the South Wales Coast that’s definitely South Wales right hazy air in between where where it divides but so few people

Live there it’s quite hard to figure out where where the dividing line is um but if you’re going to put a dividing line I’d say it’s where where the cambri mountains actually finished um so they go down to about a place called B Wells uh and that’s where where where it start

Starts getting into lower land and that’s where the people would identify themselves more as South whan and then above there they’ identify themselves as northw of course it’s not just a feeling that there a differ between the two of them there’s even differences in the language between North and South um so

Um we’re it comes back to the history of Wales I mean Wales hasn’t been its own country really ever in terms of exactly a country has been totally government a few um princes swell and Val uh nearly made uh the whole area theirs but even even even those princes weren’t in

Charge of all of the place that we now call Wales um so therefore because there’s been lots of different kingdoms over time um they would each put their stamp on a particular area so it depends who you run by 800 years ago it’s amazing to think that something happened

800 years ago would affect the people today but but it does so we’ve got the geographical barriers of mountains then you’ve got the historical layer put on top of that in terms of different Kingdoms at different times okay if I remember my history correctly and and certainly correct me

If I’m wrong the those mountains provided a protection and a barrier for Wales whether it was Anglo-Saxons or Normans England was rather flat so if you had a large army Superior Weaponry or whatever it was fairly easy to march across the English landscape Village to village place to place and continue to

Move west but I believe those mountains were what actually protected the Britains who had fled West and gave them some Sanctuary is that correct your history is spot on well done absolutely you can you can actually as you’re driving towards Wales and you get to the Border you can see I’m just the

Road starts going uphill usually is the border is usually where there is a range of Hills or mountains as it came because of course the Welsh tribes were very good at Guerilla Warfare is what we call it now so as you said the the the Saxons and particularly the Normans when they

Came through with a big heavy armor um they were a very slow moving force and whilst obviously they had the had the power to take over areas um as they came into the mountains they could get get themselves Down The Valleys but then they were fighting at night of course

They were being attacked by Raiders coming down off the hills and then running back up into the Hills uh and if you tried running up a hill with a suit of armor on it’s not easy so they tended to and that’s why they they said well Wales isn’t really worth the bother um

So the kingdom of England um obviously we went to canavan Castle that was built Edward the first that was the real attempt by the Kings of England to become the kings of Wales before that there had been a few sporadic attempt in a few places particularly along the South Wales Coast

Because South Wales is lower and flatter so that that’s easier so the did get along there the Normans did get get get along there in certain places and again that history it’s a long time ago has an impact on the culture of those areas and making them different as they are today

Yeah when many people think of whales they naturally think of mountains and I read that if whales were flattened out it is so mountainous that if it were flattened out it would be a larger land mass than England so are I thought that was quite interesting so can you tell us

A bit about the major mountain ranges you mentioned one some other mountain ranges and the effect that they may have had on the nation yeah well the the main what what happens with Wales is is we’ve got um plates have been have been moving and the middle part of Wales is almost

Like an accordion squashed upwards so we call it the Cambrian mountains but that’s that’s a whole series of different mountain ranges with different geological times so in the north you’ve got snowdonia in the Northeast you’ve got the mowind range and then in the South you got the Breen

Beacons acting as the main mountainous areas um but geologically they’re they’re all from a very similar time which is the the Cambrian Period so 500 million years ago that’s when most of Wales was made because it’s such hard rock um what was what was thought is at

The time it was a super volcano just like Yellowstone National Park is today okay and what’s happened is it was a super volcano that never went off if super volcanoes ever do go off I don’t want to where are you living they doing mass extinction

Events I think you’re safe I I don’t it is overdue Yellowstone but I don’t think it ever will go off and then what will happen eventually with Yellowstone as happened with Wales is the the forces of volcanicity the hot spot that’s underneath it making the molten lava underneath the surface will will

Disappear uh and it’s slowly very very slowly cool down and because it was cooled down very slowly and because it wasn’t exposed to the air the rocks are pretty solid and massive which is why they’ve lasted over 500 million years and still stand up today so um so I say

The cambri mountain is the main spine as you go down through but then there’s different parts of those cambri mountains with slightly different geology so that’s interesting is there also a climate difference between the North and the South because of those mountain ranges and the it’s more

Between actually East and West so to the west of the mountains it’s very wet you’ve got the onshore wind the winds Us in this part of the world usually come from the west or the Southwest so in the lead in the French slopes of the mountains you’ve got plenty of rainfall

Obviously an awful lot of rainfall on the mountains but then on the far side of the mountains in the Welsh Borderlands in Northeast Wales um what you’ve got there is is a much drier climate um so here in candido we’re in officially in a rain shadow um

So we get less than half of the rainfall as cap kig which is only 20 miles away um because as the as the air comes up it goes over the top of snowdonia rains on snowdonia and then we’ve got air that’s that’s now drier air coming down towards

Us and warming up so it’s more of an East West switch because you’ve also got then the difference between the coastal climate and the Inland climate because on the eastern coast dur during the winter Eastern side during the winter of course because it’s SL bit further in

Land because the mountains do cut it off from from the moderating coastal winds it does get extremely cold so you’ll find ice snow on the ground thought for maybe weeks or even months at certain times on Eastern side of Wales whereas the west coast of Wales very very rarely

Would get snow so so the climate difference is more east to west rather than north south there’s a bit of differ between North and South but it’s mostly in east west okay now in the 1980s I had the pleasure of visiting South Wales specifically uh the area that’s called

Little England Beyond Wales and I think that’s applied to an area of Southern pmri Shire and Southwestern Karens Shire um and I was there to spend some time in South Wales but particularly I was in tenby vacationing for about 10 days and they had a rail station and I hopped on

That rail station and I went to the valleys and visited trior which was the village my grandfather uh was born and grew up in so I had a chance to walk the same streets that he walked yeah and that was that was really interesting but I’m just curious about that phrase

Little England Beyond Wales what’s the reason for that particular phrase there are lots of little pockets of that have been angiz and it’s usually come from some point back in history so for inst on the of Angley bis um my mother-in-law who comes from Angy um she calls bis

Little England um because that was traditionally the Normans came there they set up a settlement there the the Welsh people when when Edward buil his castle kicked the Welsh out and made them go and live in a place called newra created a new bur for them so even

Though that was 8800 years ago that’s a little Ang part of Angley is is is called little England but the one you’re talking about yes is the largest area down down in pen there’s an actual line it’s called the lanska line and it’s actually the A40 Road basically spits it

One side of the road is Welsh side the road is English there are two major for there’s the original reason why it was and then there’s other reasons that have come on since the original reason for that one is actually the Flemish people um now Flemish they came from Belgium and what

Is now the Netherlands and there were there were terrible flooding there back in the oh go now someone’s G to look this up and tell me I got it’s either the 11th or the 12th century 12th century there was tremendous flooding there so a lot of of

What we would now called immigrants came in okay a lot of refugees fled those areas because their land was was just being fled and they came into Southern England but the the Normans were just at the time just establishing themselves in Southern England and the last thing they

Wanted was another group of similar people to fight over so they actually banished the flish people to Southwest Wales to the area around they basically they boed them around to Milford Haven which is in this area of pire and they said well this is your area you can live

Here and Carry On Your Life uh here uh and that was the origin of those people being different they were literally booted in around from I say originally from from Belgium and um Netherlands and they placed there so that gave that part of Ure slightly different field to the

Area further north again we’ve got a geographical aspect because the area to the north of of the A4 is called mountains so you’re into mountains which is your traditional Celtic area which which wasn’t invaded by anyone whereas the south of it is lower and flatter land that’s there there’s there’s a

Geographical aspect to it so that did formulate an the language is different and also the the accent is different in fact my wife when when I first met her we were in Abus withth University and I really offended her her roommate because she was talking she

Said hello to me is that a West country accent I can hear because I I genely thought she was either from glester where I come from or maybe orsh to me you know that’s something I come from the West country and it just sounded like she was someone from the

Same area as we were just the other side of the Bristol channel so um so linguistically yes they do sound English English is predom spoken language um so that made that difference originally of course because that area was more anger sized as time has moved on and as as

History has moved on the last couple of hundred years and people migrating to Wales if you’re an English person migrating to Wales it’s a much easier move to you to to migrate to little England to migrate to Southern pire where everyone’s speaking English no real big cultural difference whereas you

Go just the other side of that major road you’re going into Villages where particular I said belli mountains is a very Welsh area um so You’ be into going into the village shop and everyone there would be speaking Welsh what’s going to be quite hard so it could well be his

Choice and it’s also beli that that estate agent realas I think you call them people who sell houses will have almost like acted like the filter and and they’ve heard someone with an English accent want to move into perimet and they s guided them that way where

They he they’ll guide them to the other side of the line so um yeah something that started almost a thousand years ago but has accentuated over time which why there is quite a significant difference there say there there are other Pockets that are very angiz along the northw

Coast where way AR in did know the River Conway um marks really the dividing line on the North Coast between the angiz part of it to the East and then the very Welsh part to the West when you go to snowdonia again it’s the mountains is

The big feature again history is a big feature because Robert of Ryland came in and took over parts of the North Wales Coast um before Edward I first um so and and then we’ve got the more recent history of the industrial csts of Manchester Liverpool being very close and lots of people retiring

Into the Northeast Wales Coast it’s the closest part to man Liverpool so um it does seem to be a definite feel that there’s a bit of geography involved there’s a bit of ancient history which which kicks off an area as being anger sized but then over time that

Accentuates itself because it becomes a more um desirable place for someone who’s moving from England to come and actually live and change so Trevor if I recall correctly is housing more affordable in Wales than it is in England is there an attraction because of the cost of housing housing

Is cheaper um affordability I mean to work at affordability they look at average wage rates versus the cost of housing we I mean angle is is the most the second most unaffordable place to live in the UK um behind corm more which had a similar similar Fe very a a very

Basic um Economy based on agriculture and tourism so neither those are particularly wealthy people uh and then obviously nice houses in pretty areas that rich people want to come and live in so yeah the the house price and you get more more bang for your buck you get

More more house for your money here in Wales than you would in most Parts ofland there are some industrial areas of England which are similarly um low price but but yes generally Welles on average is much cheaper and of course the the London Market is is its own

Little Stratosphere um you can sell yourself a one bedroom flat in London you can buy yourself a five bedroom house in North Wales no problem at all so great so why wouldn’t you why would you carry on living in a one-bedroom flat in London could think of nothing

Worse now the the language across or between North and South Wales also appears to have some different styles and words that people use across the country there’s a Gentleman on YouTube who uh teaches the Welsh language his name doesn’t come to me at this moment I

Were else I would be happy to mention him and I watch him sometimes and he’ll explain a phrase or a word and he’ll often say now in North Wales this is said this way and in South Wales you’re more likely to hear it said this way so

C can you shed some light on the different words and the reason for that difference between North and South yep definitely and again I blame this for the fact that I’m not I’m still not flu M speaking myself I’m nearly there um but I start started that life down in

South Wales and I started learning Welsh in South Wales and I came up here and suddenly half the words I’ve learned are different words so in some case it’s an entirely different word um so which is milk in South Wales isth in North Wales um if you want a cup of tea

In North Wales you ask for a panad pad in South Wales it’s a dish gled um wow a grandmother is a nine in North Wales she’s a mangi in southw so there’s lots of words that are totally different yeah yeah but then also then within that you’ve got lots of small dialects where

Um certain words and phrases are just much more common so um I say my my motherinlaw comes from angle seat if she’s listening to someone who who’s comes from canavan speaking she has to really concentrate and listen because the way they speak and some of the words they use are totally different usually

There’s there’s there is a correct word and what’s happened is in certain parts it’s been changed into something else usually shortened like like panad which which is C is is short for C so they just call it panad um and that’s just the way it it’s come about you know people have shortened

Things um so there is an official Welsh word for most things um but in most plac because of the history of Wales because certain parts of Wales are have been very much cut off from each other South Wales not many people would ever move from South Wales to North Wales so

Although they have the same original language and they’ have had maybe a few rulers who were very common that spoke Welsh everything else has been danger and two have been kept apart so and that’s why you would get that difference um I say it’s really noticeable from the

Bottom of whale to to the top of well there a there’s a a clear difference but even within certain places you can you can walk 10 miles and there’s a different dialect or a few different types of words that people use and certainly obviously accents change as

Well so so yeah and I say it comes down to the kingdoms that proliferated over Wells there were lots of SE separate different kingdoms um howar is someone who who is quite prominent in W history he’s he was the first person to try to to link

Together um Wales as as a as a nation and he brought in a similar legal system so even though he he wasn’t he wasn’t the ruler of all of Wales he tried to make sure that all of the different kingdoms and princet that that were dotted around had the same order of law

So that so so that there was a bit of commonality there um and similar things would have happened to with with language people would have moved around Welles and brought certain words so they become common throughout Welles but because there was you know people didn’t move around as much as you’re talking

About a few people moving around people like Gerald of Wales who went all the way around Wales they might bring a few different words bit of commonality but really that the two areas were totally separated yeah yeah I have one more question for you this is the million-dollar question and

Perhaps one that’ll get the most comments on the the video and that is is there a political difference or a view of politics that’s different between North and South Wales yeah definitely um and but it’s not so much North and South there there are quite unique different

Places within Wales um and we are basically run by a government that’s in the very Southeastern corner of Wales you got the City of Newport and particularly the city of of Cardiff uh and that’s where most of the politicians certainly the senior politicians hail from that’s where they stay and and it’s

Got a whole set different economy to the rest of us it’s much closer L to England you’ve got mot St across it’s two hours to London um so it’s it’s continued to grow economically whilst the rest of Wales has been left behind um and then when you look at the political map of

Wales you’ll see different parties doing um doing well in different areas um so the coal mining area the former coal mining areas just to the north of even though they’re very close to ciff are politically very very different um socially very different and economically very different you know it’s it’s very

Much you little small little communities who know each other whereas K could be a city anywhere in the world you know one Metropolitan um right then you go over to South to to Southwest Wales into mid Wales and you’ve got predominantly agricultural um communities so they tend

To vote for the parties who support agricultural things so they tend to be conservative um or for ped c um and then you come to North Wales and and then you’ve got in Northwest Wales you’ve got that’s the homeland of Welsh nationalism so that’s where PL C’s main base of

Support really is in in Northwest W Wales and then in Northeast Wales along the coast you’ve got lots of retired people from from cities in England so they bring with them their politics from there um is different from the local people so um there’s definitely a political uh divide across Wales but

Again I wish it was as simple as a north south divide it’s it’s all over the place there are all over the place but we really do feel in the north that we are the the the the Forgotten little brother um South because a lot of things are are

New laws are brought in or changes are made and think yeah I can see why that would work in cardi doesn’t work here um the classic one we’ve got going on at the moment is um the wealth government is Keen is desperate for to to be more environmentally sensitive which is which

Is which is great um and in in the cities it really makes sense to go lots of cycle Lanes get people out of cars and onto bikes which in a flat City when you’ve got some nice routes it works really well every County Wales has been given a

Target certain many amount of kilom of of cycop paths but when you’re in in a very wet part of the world with very steep hills and big distances between the villages cyclopaths are not what we need right so a decision that’s been made in Cardiff that’s sensible in

Cardiff doesn’t work for the North and we’ve got big problems um it’s just happened this week now it’s kicking off again with with agriculture as part of these bid come sustain sustainable our government wants us to plant lots and lots of trees great for that uh but their their latest

Policy is to have every Farm every Farm now has to put aside 10% of its land and plant trees on it and the farmers arms say well you’re taking 10% away of my income cost are the same exct combine half to all things and now I’ve got 10%

Less Fields because to plant trees and it’s something that’s done by someone who doesn’t really understand how that the area Works economically or geographically I mean there there’s lots of parts of whales which are absolutely perfect for growing huge forests you because there’s very marginal Farmland

As we were driving through sow I don’t remember you’ve got lots of land with with a few sheep on there but those areas could all be forested but our Prime Farmland um you know which good Dairy herds and and grow crops it’s crucial you know it’s it’s

Money making um and to say to them well no you’ve got to have 10% of your land for trees has gone down like a lead balloon oh yeah so there’s tra to processs all over the country so there’s definitely a political divide there yeah yeah those tractor protests I think are happening

In other parts of Europe are they not against regulations that’s why it’s come to here because they’ve seen the French farmers and French Farmers have always been good the slightest thing for French farmers and this new policy Wales is just coming coming soon and they’re thinking right

Well you we’re not going to be pushed around anymore we’re going to protest yet we’ve had quite a few protests here in North Wales and in South Wales great yeah what TR any any final thoughts you had and anything you want I was just G tell you more about the language really

Of Wales wonderful yeah if you have a look at a map I’m sure you can find one put one up for your viewers to see um the proportion of people speak Welsh is not even throughout Wales there are certain Pockets where it’s very very highly Welsh C pockets it’s hardly ever

Spoken um and it’s a sort of West East divide the closer you get to England generally the fewer Welsh speakers but there are lots of pockets and lots of very interesting places where Welsh is extremely strong or very very weak and usually you have to go into those areas

To find out where they are you talked about trior I mean that’s in The Valleys um and it’s not very Welsh there um there’s not an awful lot of Welsh spoken in the valleys and that’s because of um the coal mining industry because lots of

Coal mines were set up in The Valleys uh and it came just at the time when the Black Country Now the black country is um just just to the west of Birmingham um one of the original coal mining areas it’s called the black country because of

All the coal that was there well that that industry was just coming to a close as the Welsh mines were opening up so of course tens of thousands of miners were moving from the Midlands into the South Wales valleys bringing with them their language interesting there you’ve got the Welsh language was completely

Squashed whereas the the quars in North Wales the slate quars in North Wales the language is purely in Welsh there wasn’t at the time when the Welsh slave quaries were growing the port of Liverpool was also growing and Manchester was was was a thriving place so there was no need

For the English to come across to the jobs that were being created so it became mostly so so that explains why you’ve got certain areas which are very angiz I mean your pire area is clearly example whereas other ones are very very heavily Welsh I say if you can find a

Map to show the actual proportion of people speaking Welsh you’ll see very very clear differences and in all of those you can really explain you could look look at the history and explain it’s fantastic how how our history and our geography always come come together and explain

Everything that’s me as a former history and geography teacher I suppose say not all the other subjects don’t matter I’m sure I’m sure the scientists would have have a word with me about that but if you know the history of an era and you put it together with the

Geography you can usually explain why it is like it is sure yeah well Trevor this has absolutely been great it’s been fascinating and interesting and I want to thank you so much for joining us today and sharing with us your personal knowledge and experience of Wales uh

It’s really been fantastic and again I want to remind anyone that if you are traveling to North Wales in the future Trevor uh runs a great little company a to no tours and there he goes he’s showing his she’s done this on her embroidery machine so go ahead and give Trevor a

Call or you can find him a Trip Advisor and I’ll leave his other contact information uh below but thank you Trevor again for your insightful knowledge uh of whales appreciate it very very much so this is Greg Thomas and I want to say hoam now bye for now

And we’ll catch all of you next time byebye to that