Manchester is RED Derby day review, bitter defeat for Manchester United

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Hello and welcome to the Manchester is red podcast my name is Steven Ron I’m your host for this episode and I’m joined by my colleague Samuel luer we’re recording on a a Monday morning um less than 24 hours uh after Manchester United’s defeating the Manchester Derby

3-1 of course at the edad in the Premier League um Samuel you at the game first of all how are you not bad thank you how are you yeah I’m not doing too bad the Sun’s shining um but I have just told you before we came on blue skies for the

Blue half of Manchester very th I’m not too far from Old Trafford but there is Blue Sky over that way as well um but I just had went to go make a coffee Samuel before coming on there and there was no milk so that’s not a good way to start

The week but we’ll forget that and we’ll move on we’ll progress um look Samuel 3-1 um I think we all have expected the worst or F had the worst for United going into the game it was probably the result everyone expected orbe it it was a spirited

Performance it was and that’s the it would have been a lot easier if they’d just been pummeled 5 nil and it was I mean it was a bit of a mismatch in the end but it wasn’t reflecting the score line a little bit like in the Cup Final

They they did go down with a fight stunning and sudden goal from Marcus rashford and at least those in the those those three tiers in the away endend we’ll have that memory and they had the best part of an hour to to prow about their their Fleet in superiority

And the game plan in the first half United executed it really well they had some good openings after rashford had scored and he he had easier and better chances as well um I know it’s not ideal if you’ve got Kyle Walker breathing down your neck but he’ll of course Ru that

Opportunity where he misc contr controlled the ball after Ruben Diaz’s slip and that air shot as well I think the the Crossman Fernandez was intended for momy but of course it it fell to rashford and it was a really really good opportunity and United haven’t beaten

City at the atad one nil in the Premier League anyway uh since since rashford’s Derby debut they did beat them one nil under solar but that was in the league cup and it was the second leg of a semi-final and they needed to win two-nil that night so it was it was a

Victory and defeat effectively and we all kind of knew that City at some point they they were going to score and when it went 1-1 you just thought well that’s that’s probably United’s lot nobody really had any belief that they’d be able to hang on for a draw at that point

A couple of players had to come off those those withdrawals were enforced and Johnny Evans and Marcus rashford that had a you that had a real detrimental impact on on their set up you could see that Willie CA his age his naivity really did show for the second

Goal and the experienced players who came on they just shouldn’t frankly they they shouldn’t even be at Manchester United s amrabat and Anthony Anthony was a walking disaster so was amrabat looking at the starters yesterday there there was little wrong with them they they played as you’d expect them to play

Uh it was obviously not completely Flawless and there were issues with anan’s goalkeeping with the second goal and I thought up until that point he was excellent with with the ball at his feet and with his shot stopping Victor Lindelof actually had quite a comfortable strangely enough first half

But then he allows Phil foden to come inside and he allows him space and invites him to shoot and he gets what he deserves but things like that you you expect that it’s uh I suppose the the last the last 10 or 15 minutes would have been really quite goaling for

United because we’ve seen these scenes before of City fans are laying and taking the Mickey out of them and that was going on under Jo in Jose mourinho’s last Arby that’s five and a half years ago it’s still happening so that just underlines just how much needs to change

At the club we need to give a mention a bit more to that goal then I mean you’ve just described it as stunning it really was it was world class from rashford I mean Fernandez obviously lays it off and just first time I didn’t actually

Realize it hit off the top side of the bar doesn’t it the UND side of the bar I think watch which makes it better of course as well does it’s it’s just such a beautiful goal um I mean rashford’s had such a disappointing season he’s

Been in and out um with this ghost to M L on this podcast we even talked about whether there’ be Merit in selling them in the summer um but he’s capable of these moments isn’t he and that was just such a wonderful goal and when you look

At Derby goals across the air Samu the last 10 15 years 20 years surely it’s got to be among the greatest in in Manchester Derby history it is for the for the technique and uh the sh as I said the sadness of it and what what a stunning hit it was

It’s it’s a pity for him and for United that it’s it’s faded into inconsequence because they’ve they’ve not won the game they’ve ended up being soundly beaten by city but it was perfectly timed from him in that he he obviously had the uh the players Tribune chat in the week and that that

Generated a lot of traction and In fairness to him I think maybe a minute or two before he scored he embarked on a quite a proactive run garnacho cocked it up on the right and that kind of set the tone for G’s performance it United’s first opportunity on the Counterattack

And there should have been should have at least been attempts on goal that came from it but rashford got two thumbs up from ten hog for the Run he made because it was the right run he went right through the middle having started the game on the left and he was in position

It was you know it was garnacho who who was at fault for that attack breaking down and then with that goal I think if if you’re if you’re a fan of United and you want to score in the derby that would probably be the goal of your

Dreams just lashing one in from 20 or 25 yards out it was made better because it was by the self stand by the away fans we the scenes and by the away fans exactly and there have been a lot in the away and yes say whove audibly questioned rashford this season but at

That point player and and match goers were were very much reunited and of course these body language has been an issue All Season not just because Alan Sheera said about it um the other night at Nottingham Forest and a lot of supporters a lot of reporters have questioned his commitment justifiably so

Just going off his body language during games but you cann’t question his commitment yesterday it was clear that he had an issue in the first half and the do Gary odris came out to the touch line and ten hog was checking with rashford and repeatedly he declined

Treatment because why would you want to why would you want to you withdraw from that kind of game that early when you’ve just scored the goal of your life and your team will one nil up and there’s there’s a chance that you could spring a surprise here and and Anthony warmed up

Twice in the second sorry in the first half during these um these exchanges and you thought oh God you know that’s that really is the last thing United need but in the end he did have to come off in I think it was the 73rd minute or the 75th

Minute and of course at that point it was it was 1-1 and I I don’t think it was a foul on him I mean it’s there’s this this trend now with online football fans where they just show a screenshot of something as if to say like how could

This not be given well it was a tangle I mean ten Hari didn’t even sound convinced that it was a a foul when he was discussing it after the game he was it was furious at the time but I I don’t think it was a foul and and that will be

You know that’s the the blotch on on rashford’s performance yesterday that he did have some really good chances aside from the goal of a lifetime that he scored and where United haven’t won the game they are going to get you not as not necessarily as much attention as the

Goal but there’s there’s already been just from the postm press conference that tenard conducted yesterday there’s been a lot of attention or or words expended on those opportunities that United had at 1 nil and at 1-1 so it’s you know he he he was back with a vengeance to an extent yesterday because

He scored the greatest goal of his career and possibly the goal of the month and the challenge for him now is to ensure that he he gets on the score sheet against Everton then he gets on the score sheet against Liverpool but United of course win those games and

Don’t lose them yeah sign off in that players tribute was it a letter or an address or an essay whatever you want to call it was if you back me good if you doubt me even better and he backed that up with that goal of course didn’t he

But as you say we need see more of it in the coming weeks because he needs to be consistent and that is the key um could United have done more than Samuel do you think I mean after that goal um I mean City had all the ball as expected all

The possession and I don’t think United had a shot after the 23rd minute in the game no side recorded fewer shots against City in ably match this season which just kind of highlights how two they were going forward and didn’t really have much about them did they um

And you just mentioned the foul there for for the Phil forward and goal in well the non-pou in the second half I don’t think it was yeah it was it was very very soft wasn’t it um but I mean City could have been level halftime could with erling Harland as well that

That miss it was harder I put that over the bar than the score but could United have change the course of the game by any means any point do you think you think they could have done anything different well when you look at the bench and you’ve got two international

Players with World Cup pedigree who you’ve invested or you’ve committed to possibly spending 130 million euros on your entit thing yeah they they could do something there but those two were walking disasters and that’s where as as callow as that bench was in places with the two Lads who’ve who’ve never played

A career game in football and some other players who are just like token additions or or inclusions rather this is ten hog Squad as as depleted as United were you can’t you can’t be collapsing with three key injuries and it was three key injuries nobody’s going into that game lamenting the absence of

Mason M or Tyrell massia especially after he played last season and maybe one or two others fair enough if if Maguire was fit or if if if Juan basaka was fit you’ve got possibly a more balanced and and more more robust back four because I thought Johnny Evans I

Thought was was really good again um as as he has been in in a lot of games this in games this season against high-profile teams but he he looked pretty spent in the first half as you’d imagine a 36 year old would in such testing testing conditions of in that

You’re coming up against a team that are Relentless that have the ball it’s the mental toil as much as the physical one as well where you’ve got to be as you’ve got to be concentrating every second you can’t switch off for a slight second you saw with with United’s goal it’s Nathan a

Just being ever so slightly Tod playing Fernandez on side and that results in Marcus rashford putting United One n up and it’s it’s out of the blue and those yeah I don’t like using the phrase particularly much and maybe it’s t hard wearing off for me a little bit because

He he was talking about it yesterday but those are the margins and with with Evans yesterday when when he came off he thought well that’s that’s that’s there no two ways about it that is a blow and okay you look at that bench and you

Think tenh har is limited as to what he can do he has to play Willie cambu he’s he’s The Logical Defender who comes in there I don’t necessarily agree that Anthony was The Logical The Logical attack who comes on i’ I’d much rather give Ahmad a go and

Look Ahmad might not be 39 next season but you will have a more reliable gauge of whether he’s up to it if he is getting um getting more minutes in at times where he’s more deserving of it than Anthony I Anthony last week I thought he was okay at Forest it was for

Him I mean if you only have to look at his you only have to look at his Representatives Instagram feed and what they made of his performance gets not forest and you think it’s like watching Ronaldinho in his hey day it’s it is embarrassing they think that that’s

Almost like the Ben bench now or it gives the illusion that this player is back and then of course yesterday he he was almost a figure of fun um in in his first two minutes he got the ball twice he gave the ball away twice the first

Time he got the ball he was so so offside he was as offside as Philip oag used to be he tried to run down a cold sack um at one point trying to exhibit one of these Sprints where he’s Unstoppable in 10 HS words and and City

Fans were lapping it up it was almost like look at this guy trying to you know on you know staying on his left foot running down the right wing almost taking the ball out of play for a throw and what happened the ball went out of play for a throw into to Manchester

City he Anthony and amrabat it feels like it was it was quite telling that they were the two players who came out on the team as well yesterday which was completely completely the right decisions that ten hog made but they are his signings and he is very slowly

Writing them off because amrabat isn’t going to be United next season they can return him to Sender um when his loan deal expires but they are saddled with ansy and he’s a big problem not just because um of of what they do in terms of can they shift him permanently can

They get him out for the season on loan so his wages are off the books but that deal is is preventing them from has and has prevented them from strengthening the squad because of the amount of money that they spent on him and have committed to spend on him you talk about

Ffp and profitability and sustainability rules and Anthony is a big reason why United have been limited as to what they can do in terms of reinforcing their attack across the last two transfer windows so that that’s why when when you talk about the limitations they had absolutely ten hog even said on Thursday

Would probably be the same Squad as at Forest and it was I mean I kind of thought logically the two change that they would be the two changes Mayu um coming coming back in and Evans coming back in um but was the correct one wasn’t it the yeah right yeah yeah I

Completely agree I don’t I don’t dispute that for for a single second I thought that was um you know kobby Mayu had to come back into the team and if he’s coming back into the team it has to be for Anthony because there there is there

Is a place for momney in that side there um Evans you want him because the prospect of amrabat playing as a fullback against City just just quite risible I mean he struggled enough in the defensive capacity at at Forest never mind against Manchester City and

Then he was he was robbed of the ball for for earling harland’s final goal so sometimes with with harland’s missing the first chance if it happened in the 60th minute it was still one0 to United you might have sensed maybe this is United’s day but it happened far too

Early for that and City a far too good aside to do any to to to not lay a glove on United I mean they had opportunities in the first half there was not a lot wrong with them in terms of the Personnel that they had on the pitch

Guardiola made the change that everybody thought he would make um first off taking dku off for Alvarez and after that first goal went in you just thought okay it’s going to be a time matter of time until they grind United down and they did in the end and the score line

Probably was flattering on United in as as spirited as they were because as you said they didn’t have a shot after the 23rd minute uh I think they had three attempts uh at goal or game the intent in the first half was was laudable the game plan was good in

The second half there was no intent whatsoever and a manager who has had 400 million more than 400 million pounds invested on this squad cannot get away with playing like that even with injuries to contend with you need two goals if you’re going to play like that

Don’t you I mean you’ve made the point because you sit back and play deep play on the counter against City and they are inevitably probably going to score a one point I mean City had 27 shots to United three I think ten actually used the the word small margins in his postmatch

Pressure didn’t he um when talk about the game I mean that’s not a small margin that’s a b massive one his quotes were also bizarre when he was talking about Anthony actually the other day you just gave them a mention um he actually said he was the he the quickest play on

The first 10 yards is that is that what he said about Anthony which I thought was bizarre because I don’t think Anthony’s that fast at all to be fair and that’s one of the problems with him um I think when you watch an he kind of struggle to identify what he’s actually

Good at um and that is just a a dam an indictment of his ability unfortunately and we’ll leave it there Samuel for part one and we’ll be back in a moment for part Two welcome back to part two of the Manchester is red podcast now Samuel we’ll get into some individual performances some positives and some negatives I guess um we’ll start off andreana who I thought had another decent game um you spoke to him in the mix Zone at the city ground after not on

Forest win last week on Wednesday night and obviously after the F Cup game um and he spoke quite well I thought I spoke to him in the mix Zone as well on the opening day the season after the Wolves game um he’s quite a good talk

And he’s starting to back that up on the pitch now um we talked about that with rashford that he needs to do on the pitch not just talk but it’s slowly starting to come together for Rana and he’s making some key saves but I think the crucial point is United are asking

Him to do too much aren’t there I mean no side is conceded sorry only Sheffield United has conceded more shots than United this season in the league which if you’re trying to help an out and help him record a few more clean sheets you’re not really doing a good job at it

Um but again a few a few good saves um questionable for one of the foron goals maybe but I think all around it an an okay performance yeah he he was he was down had they not lost that game he’d he’ have got eight from me eight out of 10

The player ratings he was down to six because I I thought it was a savable shot it was a saveable shot for for foden’s second goal but up until that point he was his intent with with the ball was good he he he made that goal for United happen with that brilliant

Pass for Fernandez and that intent got there was another time where he attempted to kick and it was too flat and ten har moaned at him but I thought if anything you should another manager I think at that point would probably actually imp applaud or give the thumbs

Up because although it didn’t come off the intent was there and that intent had got United ahead of in the game his shot stopping was good as well as she said I mean there wasn’t a one save we’d say that was an outright great save but

There there were good saves made and it was up until fod in second goal it was a it was a progressive afternoon for him and he he’s he’s been more okay over the last certainly since the Wolves game I think um you know I don’t think he was

As good as some people thought he was a Aston Villa thought that that performance was a little bit overrated and that it wasn’t to do with his shots up in that day but actually his his kicking and his um his hesitancy about coming outside of his area which wasn’t

A problem yesterday at all uh it was the game yesterday that he had it was just blemished by that that one um that that winning goal and if if that’s if it comes down to that that’s unfortunately that’s that’s what the performance is likely to be remembered for um you know

Another goalkeeper probably does make that save there or Anana makes that save in in different circumstances but looking at that game yesterday he he wasn’t a problem he wasn’t the problem with United there was there was little wrong in fact with with most of the starters I mean I thought Lindelof

Weirdly in the first half had quite a comfortable had probably his most comfortable half at left back and foden was underwhelming but foden’s a worldclass player and he can click into gear at any time and he especially will if you then allow him to come inside and

You invite him to shoot and he then he just hits a raking shot uh into the side of the net and that’s I suppose that’s what you’re going to get with Lindelof to an extent because he’s he is an auxiliary left back and he he played there early in the season against City

Went quite badly didn’t go as badly yesterday but United still lost and conceded three goals but they have they don’t have an out and out left back and that’s that’s not completely on the manager that’s partly on Luke conditioning his judgment it’s on the medical staff it’s on Tyrone massio and

What the hell was he doing to you have to take such a long time and he is taking such a long time to rehabilitate from a knee injury and also the the decision the club took to um to terminate Sergio Region’s loan early regon was was not a good player for

United but he was a left back and he might not have made much difference yesterday and I think ten haed his his selections and his during Reg last month were telling there were times where he could have started him at left back and he’d rather play an Auer left back there

I think doo do started one or two games um at left back rather than him but you know it’s it’s just Groundhog Day as I said earlier back I just keep coming back to the point that I I vividly remember fans allaying and Rahim Sterling taking the Mickey in

The corner flag against United when it was mourinho’s last derby and and November 2018 and you the Sky Sports P pundits afterwards what they was saying then it would have been identical yesterday because United just can’t get things right they can’t get recruitment right they’ve not made the right appointments at hierarchical level

Because of the Glazer family and they they’ve made mistakes with um backing managers with the wrong players and in the case of ten hog his his recruitment hit rate is is dire because they’ve they’ve gone gone off his say so more often than not and they’ve not done

Enough due diligence and already under him he was brought into oversee rebuild the squad and before this rebuild can be finished a new rebuild is required and if a new rebuild is required you have to be you have to have banked a lot of credit to be the manager to oversee that

And ten har hasn’t I mean the derbies have become depressingly predictable haven’t unfortunately um over the last 10 years or so I mean is it the positive not moving forward Samuel is that changes coming a new new era is here with s rff’s investment obviously there was that knockoff that perch comment and

As we see keep on saying talk is cheap and actions actually need to happen but there are there are better decisions being made uh at the hierarchy level of the club I mean Omar Bara Porton Manchester City Dan asff Sport and director and it’ll take a while for

Those decisions to actually be felt on the pitch and to have an influence but that can only be a positive going forward because when you look at Man City the reason why they have been the dominant force is there infrastructure is world class and it attracted the best

Manager in the world and United basically trying to follow their suit for their lead and that should translate to results on the pitch and in t better results in the derby well yes uh I ideally from United’s perspective but how how long is that going to be and as you say you know

Ratcliff has talked a good game he’s now got to play a good game and they’ve they’ve made some statements of intent already with with the chief executive uh with the intended sporting director and Dan Ashworth the next the next decision they have to take is the manager and I I’m

Struggling to struggling to make a case to to keep ten hog it’s the only case to keep at the moment and it has been for throughout the last three months or so is one there’s no Alternatives and two it made no sense sa of them during the

Season and I feel when a manager is keeping his job on those reasons he’s obviously keeping it for the wrong reasons yeah and I look I’m I’m I’m also not I’m kind of like talking more about the summer time or or certainly may where ideally United have to have know have to

Know by that point at the very latest if they’re sticking with ten hog and he’s going to be in The Dugout in um in the in the second or third weekend of of August for the start of the season and that he’s going to be there for pre season but what’s compounding United’s

Defeats is is what tenh har is saying in press conferences after the games yesterday he he said he he disputed the the chasm between City and United and he kept he referred back to the Cup Final again last last season as he did I think during his pre-match press conference in

The week now yeah the the scor line looked close on the scoreboard at Wembley but it wasn’t close on the pitch that day you’d be deluded to suggest otherwise City out play you think he’s making such comments because he’s coming across I mean more positive tone than he

Should be I think after these defeats but do you think he’s doing it out ofbe no or because he’s trying to keep the dressing room and players these days were so the like when you come out and criticize them I think fans would respect them all if he came out and just

Said look this was awful wasn’t good enough Etc and that’s the truth but do you think that’s an element of of why he’s making these comments I don’t think he that that was a performance yesterday where you you’d expect a manager to come out and slate the players left right and

Center uh because United have lost 3-1 in similar manner at city in in recent memory again going back to that last last Mourinho Derby that ended up City 3 United one and um it was it was quite similar yesterday uh just just the game plan the reticence about United

Uh as I said the the oaying from City fans in added time as well the sheer their sheer Supremacy and how how Superior they were as well but supporters aren’t dared and and supporters essentially supporters more so than the players I would argue set the tone for a manager approval ratings

Of course the players what what they think of the manager it matters immensely and um they have a huge say so in in what happens with the manager we saw that with with David Moyes we saw that with with vangar we saw it with Mourinho and we we saw it with SAR and

And also rang it to a lesser extent even though he was always going to to see out the season they they weren’t having rang yet whatsoever and that possibly contributed to him not sticking around in that consultancy role that um had been had been tagged onto his remit

But I mean yes yes tenh har cited two debatable moments those were his words debatable and then he didn’t follow through with them and there’s a reason for that because they weren’t debatable it wasn’t wasn’t a foul on rashford by kyl Walker tenh har said himself he wouldn’t

Even say it was a foul and it certainly wasn’t a foul by Edison on on Alejandra garnacho again it seemed like the screen shot crowd were trying to give the illusion that that was a foul it wasn’t it was a brilliant piece of goalkeeping even won the goal kick for it and when

When ten hog is trying to suggest that there is not a big gap with Manchester City he’s he’s he’s not kidding anyone he’s only kidding himself and as as Sai said yesterday in The Press Room afterwards um what what Ratcliff is saying about United and what tenh is saying about

United they’re not on the same page I don’t think they’re even going going off the same book they sound completely different and it’s not down to one being um being born in England and one being born in in the Netherlands has nothing to do with that whatsoever as as you

Said I think ten ha is being far too positive in defeat now and he wasn’t last season he he didn’t used to be that positive in Victory and occasionally there are glimpses where the tag of last season has resurfaced certainly did at wolves which was a by and large

Brilliant performance by United and and tenh Har was constructively critical of them after the game because they they should never have needed a 97th minute winner in a match they dominated for the best part of an hour but days like yesterday you you just look at the state

Of United and how many players in that Squad should not be in that Squad next season and the changes that are coming the changes that have been made already and I I can’t I cannot make a case for them to retain the same maner next season the only thing he’s got in his

Favor is the development of the young players in in Mayu garnacho and and hland and whoever the next United manager is whenever that will be those three integral to Manu would have came through regardless of manager I mean ten does deserve praise and he will get it for B

In those players um and he should but I would make the point that I think me and even G were that good anyways I think they’ come through under whoever was in charge yeah I I I I think you’re probably right but tenh har deserves his

His credits there I mean I wouldn’t I wouldn’t wish to revoke yeah I wouldn’t you know I’m happy to give him a bouquet of flowers for for those two and and also just how um how strategic he was in easing Manu back in and that he waited deliberately until after the November

Internationals and put him in a really testing game way to Everton and he was he was brilliant and with garnacho he didn’t actually have that many Premier League starts last season he he must be on what 22 or 23 Starts Now for United and um both of them have been have been

Managed brilliantly by by ten ha so he’s he’s got he’s absolutely got that in his favor but I would I’d suggest that’s probably the only thing he’s he’s got in his favor because there’s no defined style for United um they they’re way off the pace with with one of their biggest

Rivals in the city the the recruitment has been poor the results this season they’ve they’ve lost is it 16 games across all competitions now I believe 11 of them have come in the Premier League they went out of the European competitions all together before Christmas I I think everyone knows what

Is going to happen and what needs to happen it’s it’s a matter of when you look at Aston Villa and Tottenham who are in the obviously fourth and fifth respectively in the Premier League table they’ve both lost six games United have lost 11 so almost double the number of losses of those

Sides and they’ve scored and they’ve also scored as as out yeah as was 10 as as was pointed out to ten hog um yesterday as well they’ve got as many goals as Luton in in the Premier League and his response to that was I don’t think it’s a good question

Today thinking well yeah it’s not it’s not a good question for you to to have to have put to you for I think sometimes as a manager you B the rights aren you yeah he’s banked the rights there um and as you said the minus the minus goal

Difference as well in in March is just is absolutely embarrassing it’s it’s embarrassing and it’s not a surprise that we all sensed it when that announcement dropped that hland was injured and would be out for two to three weeks you thought oh God they’re going to hit the skids now and they’ve

Lost two out of three games and they’ve only scored three goals 11 points behind Aston Villa and I think correct me if I’m wrong but it was the first time I’ve heard ten hog talk about the Champions League players possibly uh going to fifth place as well um because obviously

The European uh qualification how works out this season um it would be so ironic wouldn’t it if you kind of fell into that fifth position after having such a a dismal poor campaign well I’m I’m hoping you can lie to me because I I even I’ve not even

Read up on that recently as to when when it’s confirmed that which leagues get the fifth place which I think is preposterous anyway I mean it’s it’s it’s a ridiculous concept it’s ridiculous that nobody knows which leagues are due to have that because that would that Clarity would it would

Be helpful for us as journalists to know whether it’s top four or not or whether it’s top five um but I I don’t if if United did get that I I would still argue that shouldn’t spare tenh har because you look at the performances last season and trajectory they were on

They were making progress they were making Headway they had the momentum they had an undeniably good successful season last season the Mad thing is they could somehow have a better season this season by virtue that the FA Cup is a more treasure trophy than the League Cup

And they’re not mathematically out of it as far as top four is concerned but as far as the the the perception of United this season have they made progress no they haven’t they’ve been going in the opposite direction and it would take the mother of all turnarounds really uh as

Far as their modern standards go for them to have a have a really good two two and a half months left of the season to you know win all these games they need to win to be with a shot of of qualifying for the champions league and

To overcome Liverpool to get to an FA Cup semi-final then the chances are because of the other um the other sharks lurking in in the FA Cup to um you to overcome them as well and and go all the way and and win a a 13th FA Cup in in

The club’s history a lot of there are a lot of stars that have to align for United to look back on this season and think that they they salvaged it in the end yeah there’s barely anything between Germany and England on the uh the ranking system at the moment but uh in

Terms of when we’ll actually find out the date of who’s going to get that extra position I don’t actually know I presume it’s going to go down to the wire because if teams from those countries obviously progress to the finals semi-finals Etc that’ll be late May one it uh in in the European

Competition so essentially if if City if City that’s that’s why United in this are united in this weird position that they hope and city do really well in the Champions League so EUR League yeah yeah I mean Biz it just it goes It goes against the grain of the essence of

Of football I’ve never been I’ve I think there’s maybe been one occasion where I’ve been one of these people who oh i’ you know I’d like I’d like to see the other English clubs do well in Europe no no no football fan is ever there were

Very very few football fans who are of that mindset who are willing and another English Club to do well in a in a European semi-final or european final yeah also city city and Liverpool United’s City and Liverpool United’s two biggest two biggest Rivals like who I don’t think any United fan could even

Bring themselves champ is a Champions League Place worth worth that worth Liverpool win the Europa League and City win the Champions League I think probably not probably not no I think a lot of no way does it matter yeah it’s it’s a difficult one well it I think it

Matters in the sense if City win the European Cup again United have only got one more European Cup than them and it’s it’s it’s actually quite pitiful that United have got that few European cups but Chelsea have already got two if City have got two as well what 16 years into

The the Abu Dhabi regime I mean that’s that is that is really really ging so I I don’t I can’t imagine there’d be a single United fan out there that would want City to to win the competition just so that they can get into the group stage or this this DFT format that

They’re introducing next season yeah I agree uh we’ll leave it there for part two we’ll be back in a moment for part Three welcome back to part three of the Manchester ISRO podcast now Samuel in terms of what Sergio ratliffe and inos are going to think of this result kind of discussed it in the second part there um and you mentioned Si’s comment on how tenh har and Ratcliffe aren’t singing

From the same sheet um I mean say Dave bford was in the stands um alongside Patrick Stewart and David Gil at the Edie had um what do you think they’ll be thinking and you just kind of mentioned there was a decision to make on Ten’s future do you think that decision will

Already be made because it’s not going to be decision it was this that decision was not going to be based on a derby defeat or one performance it’s based on a a lot of evidence over a lot of months isn’t it it is and The Season’s not going to

Be defined by losing twice to the best team in the world and those those were ten Hog’s last words of his press conference yesterday he he essentially said don’t forget man city are the best team in the world and it’s it’s bad enough for United fans to United manag

You say that but that’s the reality of it they’ve the new power Brokers must have an idea of what they’re going to do and it’s an established fact I reported it last week others have reported it that there are managers of interest to them that they are they’re considering to replace ten

Hog if say that wasn’t the case and say they would just continue with ten hog not given a a single second’s thought to another manager coming in they shouldn’t be running the football club because you’ve got to always have a backup plan you’ve got to have a contingency plan

For the worst case scenario and that was what exposed them with solar because they gave him a new contract in uh the summer of 2021 when it came to the point where they realized in October after the five-nil thrashing by Liverpool that he he was done and that he had to go they

Had no succession plan they didn’t know what to do and that’s not a way to run a football club so they were exposed and then they had to endure four more weeks at least there was an international break J it but they had to endure four more weeks of um being outclassed by

City at Old Trafford which obviously happens pretty much every season it feels like and um the the 4-1 Deb barkle at Watford uh where okay there were two ated time goals but the that first half that day was an absolute horror show it’s easily forgotten that although

United did almost claw it back in the second half through the the inspiration of Donnie vaner vaner of all people they were absolutely Dreadful in that first half and and S said recently in um another one of his media appearances that you know he he pretty much knew at

Half time that he was done for but the reason why his sacking was delayed was because they had no succession plan and you’d had rich darnold in in March of that year describing the phenomenal success that SAR had brought to United when he had brought zero success he didn’t win

Anything so it’s it’s very in a way if you’re running a football club it’s easy to be prepared uh for manager sacking because you should always be prepared for the worst worst possible outcome and if if you know as I said it’s it’s been written already inos are looking at

Alternatives I think the The Dilemma at this point is that when when United had previously sacked managers there has there have been obvious candidates or there has been an obvious candidate I certainly remember when Moyes was sacked you I he was so he should never have been United manager anyway but there

Were so many managers worth their sort who at that point would have been any United fans would have taken any of them but uh Conte was mentioned I think I can’t remember if he was Del Juventus or he just left Juventus um klopp was the fans favorite

They obviously went with vanal um um I’m probably think probably overlooking one or two others but it felt like Carlo ancelotti because there was a bit of uncertainty about his position at Real Madrid ahead of the Champions League final but then in the end they they won

That and he stayed so there were those were four Elite names um when vanal of course was sacked everyone knew that it was going to be Mourinho when Mourinho was sacked the Assumption was that okay it’s time to turn to pocino when they sat SAR there were a few names kicking

Around but po Ino was the main one and then of course ten hog came into the conversation and it was down between those two on this occasion I cannot settle on one outstanding candidate who’s attainable to of United to bring in who I see them bringing in as well

It’s horrible I’ll just read out the list of the managers link to United then Samuel um because it makes a pretty Haring reading um grien Potter and Zari um amaron is that I pronounce his name Sport and Lisbon manager and Portuguese of course um Thomas Tel cedine zadan

Julian ly Roberto derer Hy flick and G Southgate um pretty Grim reading and you just for anyone who can’t see obviously listening on audio platforms Sam’s just had a little smirk there I think G Sid’s name at the end of that list yeah it’s it’s it’s nothing against

Him at all but he he he he certainly can’t be United manager that I think you know with with book makers and and odds there’s an element of really but there’s also an element of you who who’s just out there who’s available and If if zindan zadan was ever GNA become United

Manager it would have happened in 20 in 2021 or 2022 he’s he’s not had a job since he left Real Madrid um near nearly three years ago which is pretty it’s astonishing to an extent in that he’s he led them to three European cups but also

Clubs are wise to it and that they know that he had he inherited an absolutely incredible Squad and he just used quite tactful man management and had one of the probably the greatest goal scorer of all time backed by a you know an army of of great players and they were saw a

Babysitting job yeah just come in massage yeah that’s that’s a pretty good that is a good that is that is that is a really really good description of it and there’s a reason why he went back there and there’s a reason why he’s not um he’s not had a

Job since he he left Madrid after his after his second stint he’s he’s certainly not right for United the the one from that list that I think would be good but I am I admit I’m looking at it through a journalistic prism is too cool but I would be really

Surprised if if inos went for him because he’s not longterm uh he’s quite combustable character and uh his his stock is not as high as it was two years ago three years ago uh especially if if Bayern Munich and this season trophyless Bayern Munich have not had a trophyless season since

20112 that was the last time they faed to win the Bundesliga they won the Bundesliga by the Skin of Their Teeth under Tule last season so a lot of people are possibly looking at him think that he’s he’s maybe damaged goods but I think I think T would take the United

Job in in a heartbeat we’ve made the point a few times he talks very affectionately about United doesn’t he and he almost when he United he talks in very glowing terms um but as you say look field towards chelse at the end obviously delivered the champions league but it

Didn’t end very pretty there kind of forgive him for that because of a bit of a basket case of a club um but yeah Samuel they’ve just signed Harry Kane and they not going to win the Bundesliga massive red flag well it is and chabby lonzo’s done

A tremendous job at by lusen and I probably watched about an hour of the the Leverkusen Bayern game last month mon when they won 3-0 and and Bayan were just totally outclass Leverkusen were excellent tactically uh that their game management he he made a couple of adjustments Alonzo like taking Jeremy

Frong out the side when he he started most their league games this season and it paid off and everybody looks that and and that was I think chabby Alonzo is in a wonderful position because there’s a chance that he could be the M of Liverpool or the manager of Bayern

Munich or even um maybe if he was to stick it out for another year at Leverkusen some out the manager of Real Madrid next season uh his his stock is is is one of the highest among coaches at the the moment but yeah I imagine the United fan base they wouldn’t be too

Enamored if if it were were to be to as I said I just at this stage I I can’t see I don’t see him as someone who would be um as to Dave braford as this sounds as as cultur aligned with what inos want in a coaches as some of the other does

That mean someone like GRE pot has culturally aligned with inos because you can’t well I think that’s a bigger red flag because if anyos appoint him they’re just doing the same thing that Chelsea did and that new owners come in they sack the manager they bring gr Potter in

Why would you want to repeat that and of course there’s a he’s got CL close relationship there with with Dan Ashworth after they they work together at Brighton but looking to there are a lot of things that Brighton do brilliantly that United should be looking to uh replicate and

They’ve not done that but doing it at Brighton then doing it at Manchester United are two very different things I think you can get away with it with the sporting director I think taking the Bri the ex Brighton maner as well that’s that’s too much of a reach

And as I said to a friend in uh last week there have been four men in the history of civilization who have managed Manchester United to a title win Gran Potter would not be the fourth I I I cannot see it I just cannot see it

You’ve got to be a pointing someone that you have the belief in to take United back to the top and as and I say this as someone who thinks gr Potter is a a brilliant coach and is deserving of a of a good job despite what happened at

Chelsea because that was more on the the the dysfunctional way that Chelsea run than Potter and you can’t blame him for taking that job because it came up and it was it was a great opportunity for him um in hindsight you know would he do that again maybe not but I certainly

Think that if if this is South Gates if the euro is a South Gates last tournament as England manager then I think Potter should be his replacement um whether Potter would want that I don’t know but I think he would be ideal for the England national team I

Certainly don’t think he would be ideal for United just for strating those Samuel I mean t came in and supporters desperately wanted him to be the man and I think that’s why why you still got some Goodwill with supporters because of that um sick of seeing managers come and

Go the sack cycle the rebuild cycle and yet we’re coming into it 80 months a bit more than 80 months after T was appointed and we staring another rebuild in the face aren’t we really um there’s going to be another few years of of change and uncertainty um and if not

Toal then who who do you think who would be if I feel I’m hesitant to say form that list because it’s just so poor isn’t it I guess that’s the the million dollar question well obviously I did the the story last week on Roberto derer who’s of Interest

United but you look at Brighton’s form this season and they oscillate from com from what you’ve made about grien Potter Brighton manager I think no I think In fairness to Derby he he did he did make Brighton better last season and um he took Brighton to to Greater Heights and they’ve there’s a

Possibility there that they’ll they’ll do do something in in in the Europa League as well uh which we’ll be interesting to see how that plays out I mean there’s there’s a prospect that Brighton could could qualify for the Champions League next season of course if if they were to win the Europa League

Although there’s quite intense competition in the last 16 and I think that some of his some of his Tactical Innovations as well are quite striking like the use of Moises kaiso as a right back last season uh was was a masterclass that their win at

Arsenal in in May was it one of the best away performances last season but I can’t remember if that came before or after they got thumped was it 4-1 or 5-1 at home uh to Everton who just about staved off relegation on the final day and they they’re were very they’re a

Very erratic side and there’s you look at how he’s handled the goalkeeper situation there this season and that they signed B the buan but he’s rotated him quite heavily with Jason steel to the point that neither are convincing when they’re in goal now for Brighton they do get thed quite often rotating

Goalkeeper yeah you can’t rotate yeah there’s I I I completely agree with you it doesn’t benefit anybody whatsoever and there’s there’s a it’s I don’t think it’s necessarily unfair to say that their season possibly Peak when they batted United 3-1 all the way back in September I think that

Nobody was surprised by that result that day but Brighton are ninth now and this is a season where okay it was always going to be very very difficult for them with European football factored into their calendar for them to to kick on and to finish higher than they did last

Season and look they could still win a trophy they they went out the FA Cup last week and went out with a bit of a whimper frankly as well they had two defeats last week away to to wolves and Fulham but they’re Ninth at the moment

Their form as I said it is erratic there’s there’s an outside chance that they actually finish this season in the in the bottom half of the table uh that I mean that they’re only just looking at the table now they’re only four points ahead of Fulham who are 12th so it’s I

It’s not panic stations by any means for Brighton I imagine given how well run a club they are they will um they’ll have kind of anticipated this but derer does seem like a man a man in a hurry and look there’s a reason why he’s admired by City there’s some chatter around him

Possibly being Contender to replace klopp at Liverpool so if if you’re turning heads at you three three big Northwest clubs in in England then you must be doing something right despite you the form the form book this season um I mean I I thought they’d actually lost more games than the eight games

They’ve lost but but that’s you know I think it’s Pro probably more because when they do lose they seem to lose quite spectacularly they’re inconsistent that’s on brand with Manchester isn’t Samuel you could see that happening um we’ll end by I’m going to ask you about

Don’t know if you saw them Jean Claud blanc’s comments um about the stadium the win news on Sunday morning so they’ve kind of gone under the radar because obviously it was Derby Day um but he basically said we must have the courage to invest in infrastructure rather than in players this creates

Additional income which allows reinvestment in Talent now I just thought it was really intered because Ratcliffe said the priority will be uh performance and on field um and that kind of differs away from those comments do we believe comes out the horse’s mouth or does it just show you that

There is a few different elements to to each case I think there’s may be a little bit of nuance to to his answer and I’m sure they’re on the same page I mean there’s a reason why Ratcliff has added him to the the football board and

Why why Jean claw Blanc works for anos as well having previously been at at Juventus and and Paris sanan I think when he when he describes I mean of course he have conducted this this interview French as well so with with translations although it’s a completely accurate translation you know there are

Cultural differences and the way certain words come across and and and the meaning behind them but I think in essence when he talking about investing in the infrastructure you look at city’s infrastructure and with the academy okay they don’t produce as many players to go into the first team as

United but they do use it as a cash cow and we’ve talk about this adium about how United have have never done that they’ve they’ve been they’ve been bad at selling players for a long long time anyway going all the way back to to Ferguson’s time but with with the

Academy players they’ve they’ve got to you the cash being Academy player at Manchester United that should generate income when it’s decided that that player is not going to have a pathway to the first team and he’s not good enough so it’s in their best interest to ensure

That they get really good loan moves so that you can sell them at quite a substantial profit as City have done with a lot of players who were never ever going to get into their first team a lot of them of course gone to Southampton um Play Gavin bazunu Romeo

Lavia of course went there a few others have gone there um James Trafford is is is the best example in my from my perspective because they got 20 million pounds for him that’s that was the overall fee United negotiated for for Dean Henderson who is an England International who was very briefly

United number one who was Premier League proven James Trafford played in was playing in League one for Bolton last season yet he commanded effectively the same feet it’s a far more established goalkeeper who maybe two years ago you’d have been saying that he worth was around4 million pounds at that point

Dean Henderson two or three years ago anyway and that I think that’s got to be when when Blanc is talking about infrastructure I suspect that’s on his mind but of course like when he says you can’t just invest in players like you’ve got to invest in players there no no two

Ways about it and and everyone who has worked who works in the football industry whether you’re you work at a club whether you’re a journalist whether um you’re you’re a fan going to a game not necessarily working it you everyone knows that recruitment is pretty much

The be and end all that that that will define success without those players recruited you don’t have the success if Liverpool hadn’t signed Virgil Van D Muhammad Salah they don’t have the success they’ve had um same with with City and all the brilliant players they’ve signed it’s it’s a very very

Obvious statement to make so um I suspect he he’s maybe suggesting that it’s not just chucking money at the like money at the problem and hoping that it’s going to stick because that’s not that’s not wored for United and they’ve they’ve done that almost every summer since Ferguson retired in in

2013 and yeah they’ they’ve got to probably bit be more principled in terms of negotiations and and certainly do more due diligence with recruitment as I said in a piece this morning the circumstances surrounding amrabat signing were so so troubling um not just the fact that he was

Essentially signed on the back of a major tournament but that there was a very senior figure at United who um stressed that Morocco’s performance at the World Cup was not a reliable gauge of those players as individuals which which is a completely accurate thing to say and it was concluded long ago

Because in that closed environment of the World Cup when it means the world to patriotic players to represent their country they are going to you perform to Herculean levels if if they can do and Morocco certainly did that they were brilliant at the World Cup they they enriched it and reaching the semi-finals

Was a phenomenal success but it doesn’t mean you should be signing their players on the back of it and we’ve seen that with amrabat and yet even though this very you know well-placed figure United expressed those misgivings United still went ahead and signed him seven months later Samuel Samuel he tackled mbappe

Come on what’s wrong with you see this this reminds me I remember when you said that um back in 2015 when Sergio Ramos was leading United a merry dance and there was this there was this it seemed like they were going to sign Ramos or Nicholas otand and

Nicholas OT had a lot of cheerleaders online because there was a clip of him tackling lonel Messi for Valencia when when Messi was at Barcelona and so you know with with a contingent of online fans it seems like although a lot has changed um regarding social media and

And the way of the world uh also not a lot has changed with them I think if you clipped us up five aside even us would we’ look like brilliant players wouldn’t we um so that just shows you what edited footage can do thank you very much for your time s it

Does thank you thank you Stephen and thanks for listeners as usual I believe we’ll be back in the midweek usual slot so Wednesday there will be an episode and then later in the week on Friday to look ahead to the evident game on Saturday afternoon so take care and have a great week