Episode 4: The Rhine’s toxic history
The Rhine used to be a heavily polluted and stinking river. Today, it supplies over 30 million people with high quality drinking water. How was this achieved? And which new threats are facing Germany’s longest waterway?
Interviewee featured in this episode:
Tabea Stötter, environmental scientist with the International Commission for the Protection of the Rhine
On the Green Fence is produced by DW studios in Bonn, Germany.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
03:04 Drinking water from the Rhine
04:08 Tabea explains why river water quality is important
05:12 30 million people rely on the Rhine for drinking water
06:15 Netherlands taking action to clean the river
07:20 Concerns about the chemical industry on the Rhine
10:36 Which chemicals are in the water?
12:08 How dangerous are pollutants in the Rhine for our health?
16:22 How do you detect polluting culprits?
17:35 Microplastics in the water
19:49 Pharmaceuticals flushed into the river
20:48 Which chemical is the worst?
21:45 How does climate change affect water quality?
24:10 The importance of international collaboration
26:42 Neil’s takeaways
The green you know just looking at this brown murky water I do wonder what’s actually In this River you know this river that uh supplies well over 30 million people with drinking water Neil here and uh right now I’m standing by Germany’s most iconic River uh which
Is just a Stones throwaway from my Dodge office here in Bon um I’m at the rine and uh there are barges going by right now you can probably hear that there in the background it um yeah it is a very fast flowing river and it’s rather broad
It’s over 1,320 km long and flows through six countries uh that’s Switzerland lonstein Austria France Germany and uh finally through the Netherlands and then into the ocean it’s a river that means so many different things to different people you know it’s Germany’s biggest Waterway uh with an estimated Fleet of almost
7,000 vessels shipping all sorts of Commodities such as grains uh minerals or fossil fuels and uh yeah I mean if you’re a tourist you probably think of fairy tale castles and uh quain wine Villages or the legend of of the Laura it’s the Romantic Ry image that that
Still exists but um there is another side to this River and it’s not so pretty and that’s you know the side of industry and um Germany’s vast chemical industry in particular you know for decades polluted this River dumping pretty much anything into it and this had catastrophic consequences for the
Ecosystem and also uh for the water quality but we managed to turn things around and uh the fish are back and the water is on on the whole pretty good these days so what happened here and what are the main challenges today when it comes to pollutants in in rivers like
The rine which are crucial for our drinking water that’s what I’ll be looking at in this episode and uh yeah so I’m going to head back to my DW studio now to talk to somebody who knows all about the Rind and its water Morgan Morgan FR have yeah that’s tabia she’s an environmental
Scientist focusing on water quality with the icpr the international commission for the protection of the rine that was formed in 1950 and was instrumental in transforming the rine from a very dirty River into a relatively clean Waterway tabia is based in Corin which is where the mzelle river flows into the Rin
River so she’s pretty much surrounded by water where she is and as you just heard she had a bit of a cough uh as we started the interview so she had to fetch a drink to clear her throat before we actually get started Herer you just got a glass of water
Right is that is that water from the Rind by any chance yes it is because uh I’m only drinking tap water and the tap water here is from the Rind actually it’s only maybe half a kilometer away there is a pump pumping groundwater close to the Rin um and using it as for
The tap water so I’m drinking basically rhin water but not directly and and how worried are you about that the fact that you’re drinking rhin water or do you aren’t you worried at all no I’m not worried I think tap water is is much more safe than all the mineral water you
Can buy in the shop so I’m not worried it is monitored and because Germany has pretty amazing water Purity laws right yes so you have to control it more than the mineral water and actually before we used to um drink the tap water here we
We also took a sample and let it analyze and everything is okay tabia water quality um can you perhaps explain you know why is it so important in this River yeah I think water quality is the basis for not say everything but for many many things so the Rin is used for
Drinking water for at least 30 million people in the Rin catchment so that’s really a basis for our drinking water supply so we need a good water quality to be sure to have drinking water for all the people in the rank catchment area and uh so that’s the basis for us
For for us humans living in the rank catchment but of course water quality is also the basis for Ecology in the past we had big problems and um the water quality was so bad that the fish couldn’t live in the Rind and all the ecosystem was really damaged by water
Quality so this is the basis when we have a good water quality or uh let’s say not too bad water quality then we can be sure that ecology can recover and we can have the drinking water from the rain you just mentioned 30 million just to put that into context for an
International audience that that’s more than a third of all Germans right yeah so but of course that’s not only Germany that’s um also uh Switzerland Netherlands of course all these countries um depend on the rine especially in the Netherlands that’s that’s really an important topic because
The water level is so high that they really use um the Rin water so it’s filtered by Riverbank filtration and um then they use this water for their drinking water so especially the Netherlands really really important that the water quality of the Rind is relatively High to be sure that they can
Supply all their people with the drinking water coming from the Rine they’re in a vulnerable position right cuz they’re Downstream so they get all our dirt right because I was also looking at some of the charts that you publish and it looked like um that you
Know at the source the water is the cleanest and then gradually you know it goes into the yellow and then towards the Netherlands it got starts going into the red for certain substances yes that’s that’s really a problem and that’s also why I think in the 1950 I
Think the the Netherlands were the first which said okay we need this International commission we have to come together and improve the situation because they get all the dirt of course we have a lot of densely populated areas in the r catchment we have a lot of chemical industry pharmaceutical industry and the
Netherlands get everything basically but we also have this different situation for example for the migratory fish because then Switzerland depends on all the countries in the in the lower Stream So the Netherlands have to take measures that the salmon can come to Switzerland for example ah but for water quality of
Course the Netherlands depend on uh all the other countries Switzerland France Germany Etc um to take measures to improve water quality okay but in terms of ecosystems it’s not a one-way Street it works in both directions then exactly that’s interesting okay uh I mean if if
We look at I mean you just said it you know in the catchment areas internationally it’s like 30 million people depend on the rine for for drinking water um which is obviously treated I mean how does how does how do you feel about the fact that we’ve built
So much industry along the rine I mean some of the biggest chemical plants in the world right are on this River um and it’s such a vital source for fresh drinking water is is it’s I’d be worried about that thinking just of you know how many chemicals might be going into the
Water I mean do we know for a fact just what they are letting into the water is it really closely monitored I totally agree I’m I’m also a bit worried let’s put it like this because it’s a a big unknown if this chemical industry really affects the drinking water in a in a
Really U big way so I have two opinions on that so first we come a long way we have this chemical industry since many many years and we had really big influences on the Rin water quality um it was the r was called the sewer of Europe because it was basically um
Everyone emitted everything into the rine it was really really dirty so no one wanted to live at the Rind because it was stinking so it it was changing the color fish were dying on a regular basis because chemical industry emitted really a lot of pollutants so it was
Really really dirty and we come a long way and we changed the situation and it’s much much better so um that’s really something you have to say the the investment into wastewater treatment plant was needed and it had an effect we are in a much better situation but it’s
Not good yet and we also have I don’t know if you will um talk about this in the podcast but there’s the the water framework directive from the EU and there’s also the chemical status and in the rank catchment area we are not at a good status yet so it is increasing the
Water bodies which which are coming into a good status are is increasing but still the actually all the water bodies are not in a good status yet M and this is due to some substances which are really persistent so we might have banned the substances already but they
Still exist in the Rin catchment area so we might not have a problem at the moment but these substances are accumulating and at some point Drinking Water Production had to change their system so when they have to use more intense cleaning procedures drinking water will be much more expensive and at the moment
We are a bit on this way because we are emitting emitting emitting and these some substances accumulate and at some point um it might not be enough to use the groundwater close to the river but at some point we might have to treat this water with really intense
Techniques and that will intensify also the costs for our drinking water water and probably also the emissions cuz that’s then more energy intensive as well filtering the water of course yes okay yeah okay but that um I mean if we if we look at the you said some of the
Substances they’re they’re very persistent I assume you’re also referring to because I remember doing you know feurs podcast we did one episode on a chemical that um accumulated in nature it was pfoa and um it was in Bavaria near a chemical plant uh a complex gend off and
It was accumulating all around this plant in nature it was it was in the air it was in the rain it was on the field Fields it was in the animals um is this something that you’re also worried about you know in terms of the RH yes this is one of the substances
We are concerned of the problem is that we have um also chemical industry for example which are uh really big and on International level and for some substances we just need International agreements there’s uh one example um Mercury um we also still have problems with Mercury it’s oquit
Substances it’s called so it’s just persistent and everywhere in the nature and also in fish Etc and um but there we have a an international agreement um it’s called minamata convention and this agreement has the goal to really reduce Mercury and ban it in most of the processes and for some substances this
Is the only way to go because they are spreaded also internationally so we cannot agree on the Rind to ban it because that’s not um that will not change the situation dramatically so if we look at I mean you’ve formulated or there are um thresholds formulated right
Um for a lot of these um pollutants um that you shouldn’t exceed a certain threshold um the levels of these contaminants just how dangerous are they for our health that’s a really difficult question because the problem is that all the legislations are not really harmonized so if we look at the
Thresholds given by industrial laws so the industry has their are permitted to um emit certain substances to a certain threshold and most of the time they are in this limits then we have the water framework directive where we are not below these thresholds yet and then we have all the
Substances which are not under legislation yet so we have a lot of substances where we don’t have a threshold and I think that’s that is one point where we have to act there are two ways to to deal with that so in Germany we have a list of substances which are
Then have a permission to be emitted and we should come the other way around and say you don’t have the permission to emit anything only if you you really can um secure us that this has not a negative effect but it’s like you’re transferring the the owners to
The industry then it’s up to them to prove that what they are doing is safe it’s not up to us the consumers to prove what you’re doing is harming us exactly yeah exactly that’s what I wanted to say because at the moment um we are always one step behind industry at least it
Feels like that so I have to say that the Secretariat is neutral and we are just coordinating and we are just putting all the stakeholders together but it feels like we are always one step behind the emitters so it’s not only industry it’s also of course all the pesticides coming from agriculture Etc
Are also a problem and we are always one step behind especially chemical industry they are emitting I think they should know what they are admitting but of course they have their permissions with a list of substances and the substance which are not on this list are not
Monitored and are not um under control let’s put it like this and there are more and more cases where our monitoring stations suddenly realize okay there is a substance we haven’t measured it before but it’s there and it’s there in in relatively high amounts and we don’t
Know which effect it has and we also have the problem maybe we know what they emit but then the substance is changing in the water so it’s kind of degraded and changing but still it can be problematic so we need to act there so we’ve seen that that we still have a
Problem with water quality it’s not like in the past that we have these big huge loads of nitrogen phosphorus and and heavy metals but we have substances like micropollutants like uh Pharmaceuticals pesticides which can affect water quality even in very low concentrations so far I think we don’t have um a high
Danger for the human health I think there are much as there are many other things um which are um harming us much more like the bad air quality in in the cities Etc have a bigger effect so we are not at the point that we have to say
Uh human um health is at risk R because of the rain I think we are not at this point but we have to secure that we will not come to this point so we have to secure that we can use the Rin water for drinking water
Supply and that’s why um we have to secure that the emitters fulfill their their responsibility yes so I mean determining the substance is of course one thing but I mean I’m just wondering if um let’s say I were one of those major polluters out there who wanted to do it secretly
You know and sort of get rid of my rubbish I mean How likely are you to actually trace this back to the source how difficult is it when you find something to say okay we know exactly who’s responsible for this and they’re going to pay for this I think there we
Are quite good so we had some some examples in the past where we suddenly there a substance popped up also by by the screening techniques and um it took a while until it was identified but then we have this monitoring net and then you can see okay at this monitoring station
Suddenly it popped up and we are in in a country where or the r catchment of course everything is um kind of known so we know the emitters which are Upstream of this monitoring station so we know it had to be someone there so far the substances which popped up Suddenly we
Could identify the polluters it’s getting uh more and more difficult to emit something secretly if we look ahead you know to the the biggest challenges that you see with regard to pollutants something that comes up quite frequently is um microplastics is that something that um you’re concerned about with regard to
The rine or isn’t that such an issue because it generally gets washed into the oceans anyway yes microplastic is something we are concerned of um of course the problem in the r is not as big as in the ocean but I think we also have to take our
Responsibility there we cannot just say okay it’s washed away um let’s forget about it um that’s not the way we are working and I think it’s also a problem for the rine for the ecosystem in the r but we still have many unknowns with microplastics so there are some numbers
Um but we are still at a low level of knowledge let’s put it like this for the rind so we still have to know more what is really the load of microplastics in the rine um what are the effects of microplastics so these are still many
Things um also science have to to figure out and then we can act so micropollutants are still a bigger much bigger um problem than microplastics it’s long at least as far as we know at the moment and um just one remarks so micro pollutants are not completely reduced in
Normal wastewater treatment plants so this is something I want to make clear so if we have a basic normal wastewater treatment plant the pharmaceutical are still washed into the river so this is why we have our special program and why we said okay we need measures for example really um investing
Into B treatment plants so they that they have a um an additional um step to reduce these micropollutants so we need investment there so we don’t we cannot say our waste water treatment plants are working good and are reducing all the contaminants that’s actually not the
Case so we need to invest there but then it is a cycle then right so it’s like the the waste that I mean you just said it like Pharmaceuticals we take medication that ends up in our bodies we we go to the toilet it eventually is flushed to the sewage system then it’s
Let into the rine and then we take it back again from the from the river banks you know to get drinking water do these chemicals the medication or the hormones or whatever is in there does it come back to us then through our drinking water in a certain way you’re right but
In really really low concentrations so they are not affecting us so far we don’t have this problem at least um so it’s more at the it’s more a problem for Ecology that if it affects um the aquatic organisms um in the r and and especially also the the smaller
Tributaries but of course we don’t want any of that in our drinking water course it would be it would be much better if it wouldn’t be there at all Tavia if if you had a magic wand and you could just wave it and say right there’s this one substance I’m really
Worried about it I I really don’t want this in the rine and you could just say it’s gone tomorrow tomor if you wave your magic wand could you single out one that you would really like to get rid of that’s really a tough question I I don’t
Have my favorite um bad chemical I would say um so the PF a um I think they are really a group of substances which are really causing worries if we could get rid of this whole group that would be great but I don’t have my my favorite chemical
M substance I’m sorry I um no I’m I’m sorry I I want to get rid of all of them or at least reduce them as much as as possible I don’t I know we cannot stop everything but reduce would be great toia perhaps just uh um on on another um
Another aspect to this um climate change is is is gaining momentum a lot of things are happening around the world um how does this impact on on water quality in the r climate change is affecting all the topics we are working on so water quality ecology obviously and uh for
Example in in summer it just gets too hot in the river for some fish so we have a problem there um floods low water of course are a problem for water quality we see um for example the effect if we have long periods of low water so
Dry seasons then we have uh higher concentrations of contaminants so they are always there there is always the let’s say the same load of chemicals of some substances in the Rind but normally um they are diluted in the water so if we have long phases of low water and and
We really have low low water levels then they are just concentrated in this water MH and then we we can get to concentrations which are problematic for us a few years ago we had really a long low water um period and then we had suddenly again a problem with chloride
Which we hadn’t for for many years and um we also for example that happened uh for the first time as long as as I know we really had our monitoring stations sitting on the ground and they couldn’t take any samples anymore because they was just sitting in the mud and couldn’t
Really get water anymore so and some of them then went with really um so like oldfashioned with a bucket to the water and taking with a bucket a water sample and maybe also um one other aspect the higher water temperatures can also change of course the dynamic in the
Water what can happen with the chemicals Etc but I think this this low water and and uh Rising concentrations just because of the low water is is one example which shows it really clearly how this affects water quality tabia then I mean if we were looking at this
In an international context um Rivers they often cross borders which is also why the the icpr was founded as an international body in 1950 right um what would you recommend you know to other countries also outside of Europe who are grappling uh with you know the water
Quality their Rivers is there like I don’t know a fivepoint plan that you would recommend you know this is the first step and then you do this and this and this it’s complicated to really um have a plan to follow but the most important thing I think is um talking so
Really communicating between all the partners so all coming together and talking talking talking so also for the r commission it take it took years to achieve goals and actually it also took disasters so we had the big disaster of Sanders where a heavily toxic pesticides flowed into the river and caused the
Death of all Aquatic Life Downstream for 400 kilometers when was this and in 1986 um it was in in Basel or close to Basel this happened and this caused such a huge reaction also in the public that um the whole work of the Rin Comm changed then we changed to ambitious
Goals and had our programs to follow so I would say when I could recommend something um the first is talking coming together having some patience sometimes it just takes some time then it’s always good to have common goals to really have a program to work on and have a goal maybe connected
Also with with something nice so we connected it with the salmon we wanted the salmon to be back um so this was our huge huge goal and actually the salmon is coming back we can see it so it took some time to also convince Society about what we are working on and
Then when it came to this disaster there was all really the the pressure of the public going on the streets and demonstrating and saying we want our rind to be clean again and of course this was some pressure um on to politicians and this changed the discussion taba from the icpr thank you
Very much for joining me here with on the green fence you’re Welcome okay so time for my main takeaways and um as you can hear I’ve come back down to the rine for this first off you know just looking at this River and just How Majestic and vast it is I I I think it’s a huge achievement
That we’ve managed to clean it up uh even if you know know it’s it still is to a certain degree polluted but most of the thresholds you know the industrial thresholds on on substances are kept as tabia said um so we really managed to turn turn the tide on on this River and
Turning it from something that was really polluted and stinking and that nobody wanted to live nearby and also the you know the fish dying off Etc and uh today we’re we’re back on track to uh having a a a moderately clean River and uh it’s quite an achievement also given
You know all the shipping that’s happening on this River something like 7,000 vessels operating on this River transporting all sorts of Commodities and also all the industry that is still here and if anything it’s probably grown uh you know all these chemical complexes that we have also in
North R failure sprawling on the river it’s it’s it’s quite remarkable that it um is as clean as it is given how much industry is operating on it so uh that is of course also owed to tighter regulation and a threshold and holding companies accountable for what they do
Um and also the the the tracing and monitoring systems that we have in place as to be mentioned you know they’re getting better and better so nowadays thankfully nobody can just dump stuff in the Ryme you know uh with impunity um they will be found out uh that’s the
Good news um the bad news uh is that yeah um as tabia acknowledged there’s still are plenty of substances that we don’t necessarily know about uh partly because we’re not looking for them and partly also because chemicals can degrade into other byproducts that we may not have on our radar so um yeah
It’s a bit worrying that we still not absolutely sure of what exactly is floating around in this River and we all have to keep a very close eye on it um that something nasty doesn’t pop up and you come back to bite us so um yeah we
Will have to up the anti in future if um you know what a was saying if certain substances accumulate in nature and they’re very persistent we’re going to have to you know invest more and more time and money into cleaning the water in future to getting the same sort of
Quality that we’re used to so that is something to bear in mind and also climate change tying into this um it’s going to add to the burden particularly also I thought it was interesting with how she said that in drought times of drought the substances in the river it’s
Um it’s more intense the level of of pollution because uh it’s not as diluted there not as much water to dilute the substances so something also to think about but um I think this is a very very good example of how International cooporation and this this was a huge
International effort is the way to resolve environmental problems it’s the only way the environment doesn’t stop at Borders Rivers don’t stop at Borders and also thought it was very interesting how she described that you know the ecosystem it doesn’t matter whether you’re upstream or Downstream the ecosystem Works in both directions and
She you know brought this example of the salmon you know which then migrates Upstream so no matter where you are on this River you have a responsibility and a role to play u when it comes to protecting the ecosystem and also guaranteeing Safe Drinking Water for us
Humans yeah that’s my two cents for now um what’s left to say I think it’s time to wrap up right um many thanks to my colleague and producer Natalie Muller and my sound engineer G gagi and um yeah many thanks to you for listening to this
Episode of on the green fence my name is Neil king take it easy and take Care green