The latest edition in our “Omerta Busted” series. Greg LeMond joins Anthony for part 2 of their unfiltered conversation. The first part had over 1 million downloads.
Part 1 of my conversation with Greg LeMond is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xq5PQvBFvI
And here’s an extract where he talks about his relationship with Lance Armstrong
My takeaways:
🚴 Inspirational Legacy: Greg LeMond’s story serves as a beacon of inspiration, illustrating how perseverance and passion can propel individuals from humble beginnings to the pinnacle of cycling.
🏁 Breaking New Ground: His journey from the US to European pro cycling broke barriers, setting a precedent for American cyclists and showcasing the importance of ambition and resilience in achieving global success.
🚵 Strategic Mastery in Adversity: LeMond’s unexpected victory in the 1989 Tour de France, amidst challenges and underestimation, highlights his strategic brilliance and mental toughness, emphasizing that true champions thrive under pressure.
🤔 Ethics vs. Victory: The doping controversies that shadowed the latter part of LeMond’s career prompt a deeper reflection on the ethical dilemmas in sports, underscoring the complex balance between the pursuit of victory and maintaining integrity.
🧠 Mental Health in Sports: Addressing mental health issues, LeMond sheds light on the often overlooked aspect of athletes’ well-being, advocating for the importance of support systems and acknowledging the psychological toll of competitive sports.
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Chapters:
0:00 Greg Is The Reason I Started Cycling
4:01 The Death Of USA Cycling
7:28 The Next American Tour de France Winner
8:37 “I Could Have Won The TdF At 18”
11:14 Back To The Start: How Did Greg Get Into Cycling?
18:55 Greg Wins Everything As A Junior!
23:14 Greg’s First European Team?
25:29 Greg’s First Time Racing In Europe
30:23 Realising He Has The Talent To Win The TdF
33:39 Racing Against Stephen Roche
39:12 1990 TdF: The Curse Of The Rainbow Jersey
46:27 Greg & Fignons Tense Relationship – “Fignon Was Cocky”
54:37 Pioneering Aerodynamic Kit
57:01 1990, Chiappucci & FINALLY having a loyal team
1:11:39 DOPING: Dramatic Change Between 1990 & 1991
1:19:14 How Open Was The Use Of EPO and PEDs In 1991 TdF?
1:29:00 “If EPO Didn’t Happen, I Could Have Won 5 Tours”
1:31:46 Reputational Damage Different Riders Had After Doping
1:37:54 Does Greg Have Sympathy For Lance Armstrong?
1:47:46 The Crazy Things Riders Are Now Doing To Win
1:58:30 Does Greg Regret His Battle With Armstrong?
2:05:01 Why Bob Roll Wore A Wire
2:11:26 It Never Gets Easier, You Just Go Faster
Greg leamon welcome back to the Roman podcast thank you anthy nice to be back how are you my friend I’m good I’m good Minnesota right now with my son uh and his daughter and my other son and his wife and uh two grandsons I got three grandchildren visiting Minnesota so you
Know last time we chatted I was looking at the statistics just before the show over a million people tuned into our conversation last time which is pretty that’s crazy that’s crazy so I had a chance to scroll back to the comments because there’s thousands of comments on
Some of the stuff and I scroll back to the comments and one comment just stuck out to me over and over again and it’s Greg’s the reason I started cycling how cool is that that is pry cool I I that is a good thing I I mean I mean I’m
Getting very old but I meet people that were you know smokers or a drug addict alcoholic in the 80s and then they saw the tour to France and got them inspired to get on and they’re still bike riding that’s I that’s the kind of coolest thing about um any a
Get out there gets somebody inspired to you know get active and and I think cycling is kind of a really good addictive uh Sport and uh it’s a lifelong sport but that’s I love it I I it’s yeah it’s exciting even um three years I’ve just had people come up and
Um you know they’re the ones I somebody just mentioned this like just this last week oh you don’t realize because I wasn’t here in the US when I won the 89 tour yeah I have no clue I mean I was so used to you know I was looking at a
Sports Illustrated article that I did that’s the number one sports magazine in the US for years but I’d spent three trips with him doing you know uh a feature article and only one of those got published but we lik it because guy named Graham finet it’s an English
Photographer and I Swift was a writer but we go to Switzer and this one we didn’t have a whole lot of money but they’ take care of all expenses so we had two weeks in beautiful hotel and food but then you think it’s going to get published and it doesn’t get so I’m
Kind of used to at that time never really expecting much coverage in the United States um and then you find out people go I remember that where I was at uh when I heard you W uh so that’s really cool it’s such a butterfly effect as well because my dad was obsessed with
The interview that we had done as well because he was a huge cycling fan especially through the late 80s and early 90s and he wouldn’t have started cycling he said if it wasn’t for you as well so if he wouldn’t have started cycling that means I wouldn’t have got
Into cycling this podcast actually wouldn’t even exist exists if it wasn’t for you which is such a weird butterfly effect that is true I never thought of that that’s I mean actually we sports are I think I think that what was unique though and and for America was that it
Was it maybe for Ireland because English language you had Sean Kelly stepen roach so uh but I I think I don’t know what year he watched I do understand like in ‘ 89 where you know people like comebacks and that was a shock I think
Got be you know that’s I watch a movie and who doesn’t like a comeback and so that gets people inspired um but I think for me it was kind of exciting because it really was a sport that was unknown in the United States and then to kind of
Make an impact and get people into cycling and you know it’s and fortunately like in this country you know that in Ireland with stemen roach and Chan Kelly when they were at their top my God we did the tour of Ireland or Nissan classic and yeah the crowds were
Like the tour to France and so it AB sadly it abs and flows in countries like Ireland and in the US for popularity it depends on your in who’s racing well um and who’s kind of inspiring people and funny today it’s like cycl you’ve got
Got to be a top you know TR France winner but there’s so many sports or so much stuff on social media and there’s so many things like that have taken people’s uh interest in so many different ways so I don’t know the Tad FR still has a huge impact in the World
Of Sports I think there was a narrow choice in the 80s let just say it’s interesting I was having a conversation quite recently on the podcast and it was about the kind of death of the US cycling scene because when you were at the height of your
Power like this is like Post 89 when you had that Fame we had this huge knock on effect in the US as well and the the guy I was chatting to maybe I even know his name he was a domestic Pro in the US Jamie palanti and he won a lot of races
In the US on the domestic scene for a long time but he went on to become a filmmaker and he’s now making a film about the rise and fall of American cycling and trying to trace this because you have those Glory Days like the tour to P where you know for anyone that
Hasn’t seen that footage from those races it’s like being in the CB of Classics like the fans are fanatical they’re line and 10 Deep you guys are superstars and then when I raced over there that was I raced for EST stellis oncology in 2013 and that felt a little bit like the
Last days of the Roman Empire so he’s kind of tracing the rise and fall of American cyclin what do you think happened what went wrong well I think I mean I I watched it all the way through my career and I I believe it or not in
The 70s when I started racing Northern California we had more Junior racers in the United States than we did 20 years later and uh and we had then the red Zinger classic which was became the course classic but red Zinger classic was RAC in Colorado it’s one of the
American Flyers was made off of and the crowds were like Europe and um but I think it’s so expensive to put cycling events in the US it’s really expensive and we I think the organizers are always fighting police getting permitting and it’s very complicated and unfortunately
I don’t think the revenue of the eyes that watch a cyc event the economics don’t make sense so I do think if you had like the Tour of California you had a major race in the US that would help the sport at the same time I go I said
It kind of have the flows based upon if there’s a pying star obviously when Armstrong started winning I mean he got people that would never consider and you know inspired also by his story and so you saw that rise but every time I think like oh my God you know it’s always in
My mind and I think in at least from my perspective the T France was so important for getting International recognition even getting recognition from people in the US I keep thinking oh my God there’s not another generation of racers and then all of a sudden you go but there are there’s some really
Incredible Pros right now the difference is theace the sport is so focused in Europe and unfortunately I don’t think it you know even the Tour of California took like an individual wealthy person that decided to put the money in the sport and um you know I you I don’t know
How to change that I I do think that like from a participation perspective um you know we talk about gravel but gravel’s really A a byproduct it’s Road r Road riding on gravel and yeah what’s nice I think the road riding was taken off uh you know after Armstrong’s let
Say success and people got into Road riding but I think you know just the traffic and you know perceived Danger on the road uh gravel is uh really taken that place so there’s a lot of gravel races but from a national level perspective where getting athletes are getting recognized it’s you know it’s
It’s it’s typical I’m not surprised you know I’ve watched it since I started cycling who do you think or how long do you think it’s going to be before we see another us tur of France winner oh it could be soon I mean there’s some really great Riders um but you would
Think I mean I just think it’s the say about a tro Fran winner so you know look at Belgium when was the last time that Belgium won the Tour of France I think was Eddie Ms and so yeah y I think so Luci vep maybe Luci vep after that yeah
Was Luci van um and that’s a cycling country where it’s like there’s so many races coming out there so it’s a rare rare occasion to get an athlete that can win the Tour but I think we have a group of crop crop of Young Riders that are have the potential
At the same time you have an incredible crop of Young Riders uh that are truly um at the very top top top so it’s very competitive competitive uh market right now competitive competition it just takes one person but I it takes just one person I mean but
Having that one person is um is not easy to find yeah and it’s I think it’s almost becoming harder and harder to find because you look at the sacrifices they’re making so early now so you’re having 16 17 year olds are behaving like full professionals now where they’re doing altitude camps they’re monitoring
Their diet so if that Talent isn’t found and nurtured at a super early age their European counterparts are going to have two three four years years of that High Level Pro training and I’ve seen in football three years that’s kind of what happened over here that you need to get
The Talented 15 16 year olds to go to the UK at the age of 15 because if they don’t go until they’re 18 all of a sudden they’re three years behind the English counterparts who have that I don’t think I think cyclings I would be not I mean if you had the physical
Ability I mean I think it’s more about racing Knowledge and Skills I think football is you know there’s a lot like tennis golf if you’re late in there you’re done but cycling if you have the talent you see people coming from mountain biking or running and they made
A pretty quick they make it good transition but I think that right now it’s the irony is right now it’s getting back to where it was in the 80s where 18 19 year olds I mean I know that at 18 I probably could have if I know the
Physiology and I could put have won the Tour of France at 18 the physical capabilities is there so and but I had train you know Dart or that that time I coached was It was a a real plan not to even let you ENT the
Tour to your 23 24 which um I kind of bought into that but I think you you you can see right now that’s not the case I mean physically um you’re capable of doing an 18 1920 it’s a lot of it lot of mean to me it’s like Row Racing is about
Psychological being able to race every you know 100 races a year that’s where it kind of builds up that um ability to stay at a high level of Fitness that’s where you get better each year but I you know I think if you have talent I I do think the Riders Young
Riders are getting noticed right away and and if I think if you’re 18 or 19 even get started and you got the real talent you’ll get there really quickly you might be 23 or 20 when you get you know taken into Europe but the thing is
You got to be in Europe to be be recognized and um and you got to be racing there and that’s there’s you know the that to be on national team or get on a team I think it’s more about your ability to get on a team is is going to
Be uh the challenge because like you said they’re already recruiting very young writers so if you’re starting a little bit later you know I don’t know I don’t know if it’s I don’t know if it’s if you got the Talent somebody will pick you up yeah Talent papers over a lot of
Cracks that level of talent let me Circle right back to the very start gr because last time we talked in any interview I’ve heard Jan everybody naturally wants to talk about the highlights they want to talk about the Tour of France wins the wars wins the hunting accident but I actually haven’t
Heard your origin story I haven’t heard how you got started and just before the call I was kind of sitting down with my girlfriend and she was like what was your first group ride like and I was thinking about my first group ride I went out and I was so embarrassed
Wearing cycling shorts that I pulled football shorts over them and I cycled up to the local group ride and I was using clip in pedals but it was my first time using clip in pedals said look pedals got to the front of the group ride I peeled the the football shorts
Off at this point so I was looking kind of semi like I knew what I was doing got to the front of the group ride and you’re predictably enough like boom down I went right in front of everyone and like to this day the guys who were on
That group right still take the piss out of me for that first day can you remember your very first group ride yeah I mean well my first group ride was um Arena Wilman club race so I started riding with my dad the summer before um I said to get in shape in for
Skiing and I went to a ski camp and um at the time that the popular sport that was growing was hot dog freestyle ski and uh and I was I lived at lake lake Taho Reno which was I started skiing I was eight years old so that was my
Passion at the time and um I wanted to learn to do aerial flips and all that that was part of you know in freei you had Mogul ski and you have ballet and Ariels and so um I went to for my birthday my parents bought me a week
Camp and a guy named Wayne Wong who was like the star at the time in wher uh Canada I came back and I used to work in the summer lifting hay on ranches or cutting mowing lawns and and four weeks later I made enough to buy a Raleigh
Grand Prix and my dad bought one and we started riding together but I didn’t you know was just I fell in love with just riding um the irony when I left to go this camp in June uh we were blocked by a a bike race in front for my dad’s
House which was the Northern California Nevada seity championships and um it was so interesting that I never seen bike racing before then I came back and started riding and then we F we were driving into Carson City and we saw another bike race it was the Pan-American um qualified road race and
It went from Carson City up to Lake too I mean a 3 4,000 foot climb back down and uh we followed it and it’s I kind of think back to it I’m going here in that summer we were exposed to two races but never thought of racing and six months
Later I was at a bike shop in Reno um looking at equipment once I get into some I start looking at equipment and there was no snow that one because I wasn’t skiing and a guy named cliff young who was Nevada state champion or something like that and and and and
Northern California combined the States Northern California Nevada you competed against with each other um and he asked me if I ever thought of racing and I hadn’t and he invited me to a Reno Wilman club uh meeting and then you know sat there listening kind of look at
Myself now I’m going like I’m a hermit now I mean I’m going I can’t believe I actually went there then they suggested I do this club race which is on the state championship course which was in front of my parents house we had about 40 Riders but there were a national
Champion in there they were National level riders in there and I showed up just like you but I did have like I had uh running shorts a tank top that time at tennis shoes and it it had to be about 40 degrees out it was Winter it was was February and
That’s you have snow and I have been getting second place and and Uphill finish and you know I just remember just riding as hard as I could and I and I every St you know after it came up to my dad said oh my gosh I think your son has
Some Talent um you should go get it you know there’s a race in two week uh but he’ll need a bike that fits some and a racing bike and we end up going back to that shop and they had one bike in that shop that was a racing bike at the time
Bike chanelli yellow chanelli and so I bought a matchy yellow Jersey uh was there with the bike yeah and so uh but two weeks later I showed up my race and I just you I had like and that the first event was kind of small when I had 15
Competitors was nothing but my dad was started racing to in the the category three and four had to be about 200 to 300 riders in his category I won it and then I watched my dad and he’s to a criterium in to park and I could just
See crash after crash after CR crash my dad wrode you know on the outside of the pellaton the whole time but the next day was like the first I’d say bigger race and there’s I don’t know 60 intermediate 40 50s intermediates that’s 13 to 15
Years old and but I got to the start line and I’m of course in my yellow Jersey and and yellow bike and I see some guy looking at me um like with disgust like I’m going oh God why does he hate me I don’t even know him it’s my
Second race and anyways he attacked I followed and I end up winning the race and that I won my first 11 races on my 12th race um guy named Kent gordis who actually helped write my first book called The Complete Book of Psych in 1985 Kent gordis beat me in this five
Mile race like literally it’s like six laps but he got a two bike length jump on me and uh anyway went and congratulate him and we started talking and uh he told me you know got to take that Jersey off and I go what do you mean he said nobody wears yellow Jersey
And like except if you’re leading the Tour of France or Wai the Tour of France I said I don’t even know what I don’t even know what that event is what is it so I I changed my jersey and so but I I think what was really interesting for me
In racing was I wasn’t never thought of competition I mean I didn’t think of racing even ski and I didn’t follow we did our family didn’t follow sports that much really my mom was an Olympic uh fan but uh but freestyle I was really inting out I mean going moving Los Angeles to
Lake Tahoe when I was eight I discovered SI Nevadas and I was into fishing you know I got into hiking fishing um like fly fishing and so I was in skiing and so when I got into bike racing it was my first time you know racing a bike like
Bike racing to me is still like the best of car racing and say running and uh but what’s crazy is i w prizes you know I I think my weekend I came away $2 $300 worth of prizes you’re going my sister was a national level uh gymnast she was
On the national team uh she really was a super talented gymnasty toured in Russia she competed at the time was an official authorized uh trip to South Africa kind of an exhibition of of gymnastics and injured her injured her back um after the SE her goal was at 1980 Olympics
Injured her back after the 76 Olympics but um if she as a national let’s say National level gymnast National Team level if you got a pair of sneakers you’d be banned from the Olympics forever and Har cycling I mean I think I I was thinking about it
When I was 18 years old still a junior no just turn amateur I made $30,000 in cash my I my son said that’s equal of almost like $120,000 today but your talent was so raw then like one of the comment I thought was really nice that we got in about that period was
Someone sent a message in said they were at the 1979 Nevada city classic I’m not sure if you remember this race but you were still a junior and apparently that day you won both the Junior and the senior race and then you came back the following year and you lapped the entire
Field like what sort of training were you doing as a junior to be able to stick it up to the cat ones like that how much was nature versus nure oh nature I mean I nature it’s genetics I think it’s genetics but I grew up in a really great
Area for bike riding but I immediately I won my first 12 races and then but I think what’s interesting for me and I think maybe I don’t know might explain maybe why not capitulating into doping um some people might uh winning wasn’t my real I loved winning but if you if I
Think back to as 14 years old I won my first 11 races and I asked permission from the governing you know officials if I could get permission to race with the junior category which was 15 to8 and I was the first rider ever to get permission for that and I was but
Juniors had a 53 CH know 5315 53 chain ring 15 in the back and intered had a 47 or 455 I can’t remember it’s 4515 much smaller gear and but I never won another race that year but I was so excited I was second in Nevada City that year my highlight of
That year was um we did a mountain mountain type uh was like a point A to point B up Mount Tampa payas which is ring County famous that’s where mountain biking started but it’s a 25 2600 foot um climb and George Mount who was six in
The Olympics that year um we broke away and he couldn’t drop me and if I would have had the junior gears I would have I think I would have won it because I it was not on the hill finish but that was a highlight of mean that was really like
Oh my gosh that was a huge for me an athletic achievement because I was just 15 years old and he was six in the Olympics World Class Racer so that was kind of a sign then the following year is my first year Junior and again I won
Most every race I entered I don’t know if I got permission that year to race with the seor Olympic level but I I know that year I was racing in a um a race with John Howard at that time John Howard is a stage race three-day stage
Race in Fresno and I broke away with them and we were Menace in front of everybody this guy was by he really was one of the top I mean I think if you turn if he was racing the 80s 90s he would have been a really good Pro um but
He was I don’t know how many times national champ Pan-American Champion three time on the Olympics but I uh in the titra I would have I was 20 seconds up on him but I turned around it was like a 30 m hour Tailwind I spun out and
He beat me by 10 seconds but that was my first year and the following year I asked permission to go to the amateur I call it amateur that was after 18 years of older that would be the top category in the US but I won most of my races
There but I think it was interesting for me as in when I started racing it was all these you know Northern California especially really was into the traditional Road RAC and they knew all the European Racers and and but there was this kind of um Mystique about
The European Racers Eddie merch that at its prime are just coming at the end of it and Freddy Martins and all these great classic writers and um you know I started looking at all the magazines mirar de se and it was just sparked in imagination but at the time I just know
That it was like man nobody you know it’ be a dream to even think about competing against them now there were a few Riders a guy named Mike Neil who was quite a good riter he ended up he was I think he was did well 10th place in the world
Champ championships and he was an early Pioneer and he went to Europe and got turned turned Pro with Italian team and George Mound again he was a really early really good racer that was six in the Olympics he went and turned a couple years later before I turned Pro with an
Italian team but it’s still jump though you’re saying with the Italian team like how do you because it’s a long way still I didn’t go to Italian I didn’t go to the Italian team I’m saying George Mount oh okay sorry how did you make your to
Europe well I’m still a junior so is talking about my junior period so I’m I started 15 1415 14 half and then and so I’ve got three years as a junior and uh at that time there were some early Pioneers Mike Neil and George Mount oh okay okay but
I’m saying the the uh the the mentality in America is that we Americans could never compete in Europe now the guy that I lined up in 1976 and uh tahar road race was the guy that looked at me with disgust Kent gordis he I we became really great
Friends um and his dad lived in Switzerland his mom lived in Berkeley but Kent was I don’t know he graduated from yell at 16 he spoke Russian French fluently probably German and English of course and he was and he still is like the historian he knows everything about
Psyching every statistic I mean he educated me on you know so much about Europe but in 78 um 1978 I did the World Champ well actually this is a nobody and I kind of forget this race but the junior World Championships were in Washington DC in
1978 which was a big deal nobody had a world championships and um my first coach was a guy named Eddie Boris svich he defected after the 76 Olympics uh he ended up becoming the national coach and his focus on Junior Racers he felt like that’s where you develop the talent and
Our Focus was on team TI TR training and uh he he was was the first guy I mean if I think back he uh implemented real intervals interval training um for two years I mean I I knew you know Eastern block type of training Methods at at 16
17 years old we end up getting a bronze medal the and the team TI trail behind East Germans and I forgot they they won it russan second um and I got Ninth Place the road race and that was kind of like um you know um a big deal for me
And I I did it on a broken br saddle so that was my first International competition and it’s like okay uh but Eddie B the coach he gave us really I mean he believed that we were world world class he called me a diamond in
The rough um you’re like a you know rare Diamond but needs to be polished um and so but that summer just after World Championships I flew to Europe uh with Kent gordis and he took his mom and his brother in Kent and I we stayed at his
Dad’s place in Switzerland for July but we he drove me to a a race in outside of Zurich and then one year Kon Montana um which had all the best Swiss Riders my w both those races and then I raced two races in France um one year an one year
Shamur shizo and I won both of those races and then this me and then they because because Belgium was the place to go that was the school of cycling and Kent gordis even at that time I knew knew about Belgium um we went up there for three weeks and I
Entered six or eight races I think I won all six or eight races so every race I entered I won and I’m racing not in America I’m racing in Europe with the best people Eddie Ms you know this is where my logic started coming in I’m going okay these guys are gods and
They’re so talented we don’t have the ability to compete well all these great Riders have to start as a junior you know Eddie Ms had to start off a junior and if I’m as good as anybody in Europe at this time why can’t I think about the
Twitter France and it was that trip that I first saw the Twitter France um a stage up the jlan into Morzine and that was like oh my God that was the most amazing thing to see and at the end of my two month trip Eddie B Eddie bich is
Uh his nickname was Eddie B has abbreviated with a b instead nobody can pronounce his last name uh he had arranged for me and another American riter to fly to Poland and do a International stage race three-day race in southern Poland um there was Czechoslovakian at the time Eastern
Black Country these Germans um so I had a little piece of paper in in a pencil with an address on it and a name and uh the friend that was supposed to go the other riter was supposed to go um ended up going home to the US I didn’t
Know that and I showed up the airport in Brussels myself and I flew to Warsaw and uh I had $75 on me uh I had a bike in four sets of wheels and a a suitcase and you know at that time there’s no phones I mean and I flew over
To warsa landed there and you know walk out expecting somebody to pick me up and I sit there and nobody’s picking me up you know an hour goes by two hours go by three hours go by nobody’s there and I’m going what do I do you know I got a
Fixed ticket leaves in a week and uh I didn’t think if I could just go change it I I probably could have but I didn’t have a credit card or anything so I’m sitting there and I finally um I still remember going to buy coca colola and
You know felt like I’m fish out of water but I walk and it breaks and the whole airport stops and stares at me I probably was a little more self-conscious so I went out to the taxicab drivers and I I told them this is wo just a town that the address in
Woz and uh they asked for $80 in cash to take me down there and I said I don’t have it so I went back in I came back and I negoti the guy for $25 and he took me down but we know was like an hour and
A half two hour drive and then we spent an hour and a half driving around Woods to find the address and then we finally got to the address I knock on the door and I look this woman answer I go Greg lemon Eddie B Eddie B and she goes
Like I don’t understand anything I said Eddie bich Eddie bich okay but she went follow her husband who was the the national PRACK coach they called Eddie B and Eddie B forgot to call him so oh I completely forgot I was there and so anyway I end up standing a week there
And it was really incredible to be in Eastern Eastern Europe I mean at the time I ate like a really I mean they treated me like royalty and but I remember going to purchase bread with the uh the wife uh to meet and it was really like you read about it was like
An hour in the bread line an hour in the meat line and uh anyways I went down into this race in southern Poland I’d say the accommodations were horrendous and uh one thing I’d never really grew up liking I could drink milk with cereal but just plain milk uh and
The breakfast was warm milk and noodles and I could not eat it so I went three days with no breakfast uh but anyways I end up I one the first stage I end up taking the lead then I crashed and I end up I think getting third place overall but I
Came back from that trip going okay you know I was very goal oriented um always been and and I’m going okay I think I have the talent to go to the Tour of France and I went home and I wrote four goals out on a piece of paper
I you know I was ninth in the road race and I felt like I was as good as anybody and I but so my objective the following year was World Champion Junior World Championships Olympic championship in 1980 and then I was kind of modeling micraft Eddie Ms and Bernard hog look at
Their time frame of their development and I added a year because I’m American so instead of world championship 21 like mer did I said 22 instead of at Twitter France at 24 I put at 25 and and that’s was my goal and that it you I I got
Every one of those excepted the Olympics which was a boycott but I knew pretty quickly that but I think it was a 1978 trip for certain that really that was my third year of racing that I knew that I was had world class talent and the following year Junior world champions I
You know I end up getting second in the pursuit another bronze medal and the team tiron and I think I led 50% of % of the the team TI 70 kilometers um and so and that was you but I think the fun story is so I was 18 years old and um
The world champions were in October 79 the pro season works you know February you start the um south of France r rces and training camp and one of the sponsors in my um in 1980 was a guy named Michael faty on a bike shop in ases Iowa and uh he was a
Raleigh dealer but he became friends with Raleigh professionals Gary ketman uh I think a little bit Yan Ross but his real friend was Gary ketman who was a really top racer in the in the 70s and he arranged for me to we flew over into
Belgium in I think January of 198 80 and he was trying to get me on a protein with Peter post and Raleigh and so we flew and Gary ketman invited us to the m six no six days of Rotterdam so we go over there and then you know I think the
Next day we were meeting Peter post at the uh at the uh Team presentation in moner and some we they’re all nervous and you know met Gary Kitman and uh you know I flew all the way this way to you know try to I think Michael try to pitch
Me to get on this pro team and Peter post came in very tall guy very you know confident blue eyes very looks like very successful because oh kid nice to meet you had me a card call me in a couple years that’s what he said and I’m like
Wow I did this whole trip uh trip over here and that’s it and uh anyways uh that was January and then in April I came over with the national team preparing for the Olympics and we were we you know at that time there were two programs one team went to Italy to race
Amateur races set man at BAM mosa I forgot all these races and then I went to the French program which we raced a race called cir cardans um which that’s I just talked to Stephen roach the other day yesterday two days ago and he said do you remember
When we first met I said yeah c c is our dance because he was he remember different day but we were riding up a climb and he was you know I hi Cadence and we were bun bounce put pushing each other trying to get position then he remembered another deal where I was
Probably fighting with him again for position and I was I guess very aggressive with him he he grabbed my handlebar and said you know you do that again I’m taking you down so anyways and I I was at that race I I won my I wanted
Stage in this we we landed the day before I so jet like but I wanted to Stage there I think it was third overall and then we drove from cir desar dance to c s which at that time there were two proam races you had T lavenir which was
U the small TR of France where you had you know I said just for people that are new to the sport now up until 96 there were two categories of let’s say over 18 there was a professional level which is the T France and then amateur level which is the Olympics
Olympics were always a stepping stone in cycling cyclan it was always the the tour and Pro Racing um but at that time the Russians are very good res very good Eastern European Racers s kov i pronounce it pronunciation not not my best deal uh but these guys were really
Great pros and so the two times they were able to compete was ciru dear in April of 1980 and then to Lair which would be in September and I was 18 years old and I think goaf W luk was there I don’t think the Russians were there but
All the best Riders and I think two or three I think second or third place rider in the Tour of France was there anyways I end up winning that that stage race and um and there was another stage race a week later called rubian Ruben Grand Braton and uh I already knew about
Who Gard was uh because he came to Circuit a circuit other side heally Mark mtio anyways and uh he had to following the last stage and I was in a break with the Russians we were five minutes up and I had a flat tire and uh we were
Sponsored by a French bike G to cun and the guy ended up having to gas while we’re in the breakway I had no wheel change and I ended up losing a minute or two the Belgian gave me a wheel chain change and I realized I’m two or three
Minutes down on never catch up and I was so pissed at the mechanic and uh he kept smiling said oh keep going you know you you’ll get fifth place you know and I said fifth place he said you got to do this for your sponsor I said do it for
My sponsor you screwed me and I got off I got off my bike and threw it at him in the car I screw you and I I gotted the card went back to the finish line and Gart approached me after that that stage and said he’ like to propose you know a
Contract with me for 19881 so that was that was my dream and I knew Gard was the very best team and I still smile about it because Pua was Bing uh for me and uh Gard offered me 6,000 French Frank which was $1,000 a month and PUO was offered me 20,000 but
Like three times as much but I chose uh gard’s team and then Gard told me oh you are the highest riter we’ve ever paid I found out that was totally [ __ ] too he told that to everyone yeah let’s fast forward a little bit last time we
Chatted we kind of went deep on the 1989 turle France which if anyone hasn’t listened to it go back and listen to that also your documentary has come out since then the last race which is absolutely brilliant so if anyone hasn’t seen that Apple last Rider sorry I
Checked it out on Apple and so it’s up there and it’s great job on that that was brilliant yeah yeah I I’m I don’t I can’t ever comment on anything that’s with I’m that I’m in it so I think people liked it it more more about my
Wife and our family and kind of some of the struggles up to 89 hey Road man today’s episode is brought to you by our amazing sponsor lall I bounced around cycling clothing brands for many years that is until I found laal laal is raising the bar in cycling clothing it
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Great great sorry highly recommend it but let’s jump into 1990 because you’re going into the race as world champion did the course of the rainbow jersey did that exist back then the what the course of the rainbow jersey yeah oh yeah oh yeah yeah of course and that was you
Know I had my philosophy at that time because I won the World Championships when I was 22 and you know up until then you know you’re just a racer and I got the benefit of not you know being a t France winner I think that’s the
Pressure comes with the T France or you know becoming the stars of the the press the demands on your time and I remember 1983 I just got inundated with demands I didn’t know how to say no and you know I I just kind of got burned out a little
Bit after the world just from the demands and that meant I was a little fatigued for training excuse me and I didn’t enter to the season like I normally would I mean just slightly off but sometimes you slight start slightly off it’s your cation it conditioning and it eventually catches up but in
1989 to 1990 it won the worlds and I guess I would say I had the curse because um the the crazy thing is I signed what they call world you know at the time the highest um ryer at the time I signed for 2 million a year over three
Years $6 million a lot of money um I smiled because I think I Stephen R probably doesn’t know this but I think he’s the one who really caused the uh the rise of salaries because when I TR Pro from Rena to Lobby Clair with Bernard T he announced I got a million
Dollar contract well he didn’t say it was over three years so that’s 333,000 I just I don’t know if this is true because I I just heard that when Ro won it uh the tour he I think assumed that I was making a million I think he demanded
A million I think he got paid that and so that’s kind of the rise of of the salary so when I won in 1989 um it was interesting because I you know this is more money I ever dreamed of and and U I had toiba who was my old team they
Offered I think three or four I can remember way more the teams uh like called team z uh but they’re the ones who also let me after I got shot and I’m like I’ll never go back to those people but anyways I signed my contract and and
Cycling at the time it’s just like you never talked about money and and you know they felt like God you’re GNA make that much money you’re going to lose interest in cycling you know you’re get sof so that winter of course I’m so excited about winning the tour and
Somehow I got caught a Epstein bar you know chronic fatigue and I started the season just wiped out and I could I didn’t know what was wrong with me and I could barely finish a race and of course that was the curse of the rainbow jersey
And but there was worse than that that you know was basically Greg’s gotten soft he doesn’t care about racing he’s made so much money well I hadn’t made any money at that point because I still had to get earn it in that season yeah
Um so I came back in um April of 1990 and I um spent four or five weeks riding as very little and um I end up getting better at by May um I felt better you know sometimes when you have a virus and you’re racing you never take the time to
Fully recover you’re always you’re never letting your immune system kind of get over uh things and so i’ I started um the Jared ital that year and I decided I’m going to do a gretto the whole time I was you know really um decid not going
To push myself and I got done with that race and felt better then I got in the tour Switzerland felt even better and but I entered the 1992 where I don’t wasn’t close to my 89 but definitely that close uh to my condition 1991 or an
86 but strange to say an underdog as the defendant champion and also world champion going into the race but you definitely weren’t as hyped when I was looking at the they me off they wrote I mean everybody wrote me off yeah yeah which I think adds to the story as this
Tour develops but one thing I really noticed in the 1989 the dramatic Shan CIS time trial you know it’s it’s much documented you used the arrow kit Fon didn’t use a lot of Arrow kit maybe that was the difference maybe this you know saddle s or en large testicle whatever it is but
Sword large SLE 100% not that no he did he was third place in the time TR and I would say that I told him this I said if you had the tri bars I believe You’ W you know I absolutely believe that because um gar still thinks it was the en large
Testicle he was third place no doubt that probably impacted him but I think what impacted him more was Gard yelling at him that he was falling behind you could see him panicking and pushing himself to the Limit his time trials are about push yourself just at your limit
But not going over but at the same time you can argue that Gart and Renault had a better team I was no teammates they had had a two three minute lead just after the team tiro um and I really so you could argue all these when you lose
It and I still remember doing an interview with uh Fon we were in the Bro St at the T France I think 2009 or something like that and he kept saying I lost 12 seconds this where I lost it I lost 12 seconds here and I said no you
Didn’t you lost it because gar didn’t believe the triathlon bars had you use those I believe you would have won and I said the irony though hear truly was a leader of aerodynamics they used the Formula One r no from wind tunnel we had deep dish wheels just like you see today
That are carbon but out of aluminum we had aerodynamic tubes I would bet that some of the equipment we had back then is equally as fast as a lot of stuff today if you look at our I had um look at the how much that we used 1984 go
Back and we had much more aerodynamic helmet than I used in 18 1989 in fact Gard a uh I think it was 84 we showed up at least there was one bike with a fairing off the back and it was refused because it was they added like huge aerodynamic fairing
Off the back of the seat so what I I kind of smiled when Fon uh kept trying to find reasons I said you know the leading aerodynamic person Gart decided you guys to you couldn’t breathe off of those obviously he had the bars he had
The bars during the tour so but that is a part of beauty of cycling it’s it’s not just uh it’s about choosing your equipment aerodynamic is always important so so is weight weight to power weight ratio so was always important important so I I kind of look
At it you know I I I I think it was a great tour because um both of us were so close but I would say that uh he would probably was stronger than me for certain in in in some of the big stages but at the same time I look back and I
Go I had no teammates and I you realize that how much energy you waste by yourself so at the end of the day it zero out and no matter what it’s who crosses the fresh line first that matters what was your relationship like with fan because I remember the day in
Sorry we’ll get on to 1990 in a minute but just to finish on 89 I remember the day you lost yellow in the 1989 tour and Fon was melting to the press that evening about how you didn’t respect the jersey and you didn’t ride like a leader
And then later on in the race he’s talking about on Al when you cracked I feel like the tour is has won today and he’s toasting champagne like on the train the day before the TT in Paris which just to me seems totally not even just bizarre but
Disrespectful well and gameart denies it because I think there was an interview on the last Rider I think yeah last Rider he doesn’t remember but I remember and uh but that same stage that Fon was uh complaining about that I was respecting the Jersey first of all I got
The Jersey second of all I had a team that wasn’t with me in the mountains I was by myself and the third point is I hadn’t been in the front of the pelaton since 1986 so I was nervous as hell to be in the mountains and obviously I was at my
Limit because it did take 10 seconds out of me so one thing I know is I raced March tactically I didn’t let my ego get the best of me and fenan just had a weird he had a weir personality I like fan but when he did well races his head
Expanded he became very cocky and when you get cocky you lose races and I think he lost the race because he was overconfident when he when he tapped me on the shoulder the day before the the final time TR he said congratulations on my your second playsight I said right
There you’ve lost uh because I knew that the time TR was very short and you’d come in there little cocky and you know it probably start off slow and I knew that I had to take time on him the first kilometer but um yeah Fon Fon complex character I mean I think he
Had a lot of like I got ripped apart you know when I got shot I got letteron I deserved I shouldn’t have been now you know what a turkey feels like and shouldn’t have been racing and then Belgian headquarters the guy who eats pizza and hamburgers and gols got what
He deserved he should have been hunting well okay um but I was a very optimistic person and i’ never let that stuff get to me and I think fan after when he two tourist he was struggled for years and uh I think there probably a lot of NE
Articles n ne ne ative articles written about him and he took that anger and put it back at the journalist and um to me that’s sad because even for him to be that impacted for losing you love the loseing bike racing you rare winning such an a rare occasion relative to the
Amount of racing you do so it’s always struck me as odd that he it devasta that much because um I think psychologically he felt he felt like he was the best let’s just say in 83 and ‘ 84 but I also looked at nobody was there truly compete
Against them in 8384 I was not great you know was just coming back but in his mind he was as good as anybody and then he suffered through 85 and 86 and then when he came back I think was like an eagle deal I’m the best and he was angry
At everybody and I think um it’s sad because that he he h that much anger for so many years and more tragically I heard from a good friend of his that after he um lost the tour ‘ 89 he never went back to Shan and for years would
Count as he walked th1 th2 th3 th4 to 8 seconds and you know I feel bad for him because um I I I would have been happy in the second place that year I mean I came from U you know and that’s I think I don’t think did even understood where I
Came back from either I mean he had a tendon injury that uh took him I mean I took him years to get over I mean I literally um have 50 pelet in me still two in my heart three in my liver and have chronic Le poisoning and
Right lung collapsed and I went from 148 pounds to 118 pounds and it was all muscle mass I lost and uh so I had to come back from there and I was just happy to be at that tour do you feel a little sad for Fon that is legacy is
Largely even though he won the Tour to France twice his legacy is the guy who lost the tour to France by I I do I mean and I’ve had good conversations good times with Fon afterwards I mean um I went back in 96 a candy company called Harbo invited us so
We drove a Formula One car played golf in this event and um no I got along with him and I met him a couple other times at the tour but I I have to say it’s like I’d be sing side by side to him and
You see a french guy come up great he congratulations and then he’d be look at Von how could lose by eight seconds it was awkward very awkward for me I mean I felt bad for him and um but sadly somebody’s gonna lose that day it would
Have been me or him um and I think you know I think that you know it’s it’s hard to go back and I go but I think the devastation was the the confidence that he wanted I mean he already had it it’s like getting probably robbed because he had felt like
He is home free but um he lost confidence felt like insecurity though looking back on it looking at those interviews now and knowing how it pan out they actually don’t seem the words of a confident person to me they seem the words of someone who’s very insecure
And who’s almost trying to play this you know poor Muhammad Ali mind games with a competitor oh I think during the tour yeah I think but I think that’s Fon I think what I’ve what I’ve been able to read and understand he was a very shy
Person and so he was very awkward at times and I think you know if you’re shy then all of a sudden you have a lot of confidence from your victories I think he became that’s why I said is he I say his personality changed um but he did I
Mean he was trying to psycholog I mean he that the verbal battle after the um me not leading the tour was kind of a um a mind game that’s why I forgot to say though is at the end of that stage and super bere he was ripping me in the next morning I
Saidon on I think think is the tmay or the next climb um I saw you holding on to a motorcycle and at that time they used to they put a rule in because there a lot of people the group Peta we call them they had they had their their left arm
Or the right arm was 10 inches longer because they holding on to cars and it was an automatic disqualification of the Tour of France I said on and official say you wouldn’t even be sh you’re talking to me and he held on to get him over an earing and I would that’s
Something I would never have done I don’t care how bad I was doing I mean if I as a GC riter like whatever could debate the Merit for a gretto but for a GC rouer to be holding on that’s like totally unacceptable yeah absolutely and he never criticized me after that
Because I said you want to play you know you want to play war game I mean word game Word War game um I’ll be glad to to uh to talk about that so I mean it got you know but but anyways that was I it was a fascinating tour because it was
You know even at that point I I kind of was aware of Fan’s own kind of demons um I was with him on 198 84 tour to France and I liked finean I I I liked him I think we he we were even in 84 83 we
Were all these Young Riders he was a very ambitious writer I think and he wasn’t I don’t think he knew how talented he was until he got on the tour in ‘ 83 and ‘ 84 and uh and when you taste three like the tourists hard to go
Back and go out and race another time Tour of France and not be on the podium it’s very difficult and I think he went from winning two tours to that so we jump forward to 1990 the time trials in future scope uh it seems like everybody’s using aerrow kit now but
You’ve even taken that a step forward you’ve brought this kind of new aerodynamic it’s almost like a bullhorn type design how did this come about you’re riding a different Arrow setup than almost everyone else well because bu lenon who was really the we people take different claims who
Invented the triar but I mean some people blame it was somebody in the Race Across America but it was it was the Hadar put in there was to breast their arms Boon Lennon was a national ski coach for the women’s team he came out of Sun Valley and he really did the test
On the aerodynamics and perfected the position and after I saw uh a racer Davis finny and the tour tour to Trump in 1989 how it improved his position I reached out to him I told myself if I ever race well again I’m going to by who invented that I called him and that’s
How he used it in ‘ 89 so he did some other tests with a really narrow uh bar and of course the way he was testing it was faster because they he did a test where you’re riding on a downhill like a tie TR so it was just it was aerodynamic
Drag drag test but what I realized there is it um I could not pedal so I ended up doing well on the the individual TI trial short but there was a longer time trial um I think a week later and I got done with it I felt like I didn’t even
Push myself but I couldn’t I could not um I couldn’t pedal properly it was like hindering my wasn’t breathing it was just hindering my whole uh ability to apply power to the pedal and so you got to be careful about all these aerodynamic positions the most important
You got to apply power to the pedal you’re forc to the pedal um and in theory was good but I literally adapted that before the prologue I didn’t take the time to drain on it and had I done that it was it was a last minute
Improvement that I felt you know I could I could adapt to it uh it was a wrong decision because had I trained on it I would have realized I couldn’t do a Time Trail um where I couldn’t pedal so um a lot of that was you know thinking
Something you know a little bit’s good even more is better yeah doesn’t always work out that way so if 89 was defined by the battle between you and fan 1990 is defined by the battle between you and Kochi and then on stage two he gets out
In the break and they take over 10 minutes on stage two in the break what’s going on behind why is there no one riding how is the how is this group because letting Kochi take so much time I know he didn’t go in probably as an
Out now favor but he still went in as maybe a reuer to be Fe overall oh no no nobody knew about kuchi no off the radar he was a domestic yeah yeah off the radar back the best Rider that was C bow and Ronan pensc our guy so what was even
For you guys well so it was rare because you had a teen tal in the afternoon so you had two races and so the once they got a couple minutes like three four minutes I mean I had a riter there um he put carrer had one I think Steve I in
7-Eleven four I think it was four Riders so I didn’t have to ride our team didn’t have to ride so why would we ride to chase back down our own teammate so the other teams also didn’t on to they if they’re thinking about the team T in the
Afternoon and then they look on paper Okay are these are the guys going to win the Tour of France on paper no C bow if anybody would have been probably the best chances he was fifth in or fifth no 10th in 1985 pensc those two but you
Know why would I why our team Chase so they got a 10-minute lead and I think uh I think everybody I mean k put you surprised everybody um on that one I wasn’t concerned at all but I I also you know wasn’t certain truly about my
Ability I I I felt I had a good chance because fenan wasn’t there and um but that was just uh the way the race played out because you know that’s what’s interesting about cycling it’s so much ER to Dynamics and your team preserving energy you try trying to preserve energy
Uh it’s you know you think well why wouldn’t somebody chase down the pelaton uh I think a lot of people were uh addressed maning kuchi like I did and they got a 10-minute lead and uh you know he ended up disappointing a lot of people I mean I’m certain I think it
Would be probably delado and the alender team that probably um lost out the most how deep into that race in 1990 were you before you started thinking okay the legs are coming back around here I actually have a chance I know you were second on Al the W that day you
Were in the break with you were sitting on because you the team you guys had the jersey at that time so inan was putting in a big shift into the base of opz and you got dipped on the line for second byy buono uh yeah actually went into the
Barriers not Sprint I remember I got I got I got zipped on the line because of my middle fing I shouldn’t point my middle finger but it’s I got sausage hands as my kids say but I uh what Happ your finger well just before the c grer
Grer c grer um so you got the qu Fair gr qu fair and just in the feed I riding up to the through the little small town there and I had both my hands in my back pocket and uh I hit a pothole and I went
Hands in my back pocket to my left and hit a woman I think she had to be 75 to 80 years old I flattened her go I flat Jo no I I I thought she did I got up and and I’m sitting there are you okay are
You okay are you okay I’m scared to death and the husband comes up great she’s off she’ll be fine get on your bike that’s he said great get on your bike so I I went up my finger was dislocated and I hold it out put it back
In and uh yeah so I I caught up to the pelaton but when I came into the Sprint there I had the jump on them when I had you got you know you feather your your you got to feather your uh break I went to feather it and this finger
Locked up I couldn’t break and that’s why you see kind of i h i i i scrubed all the speed off because I I locked up with one other break so that was I felt I I thought I could win that I I wanted
Win the stage of there but I I said I was go back and I’ve just had the momentum and my my finger locked up so that’s that’s uh I think that’s why I didn’t succeed in the Sprint but that stage was actually the first time I seen
Inine did you kind of have an inkling ring with him Dan did you know his performances Dan foreshadow what was the com no I I I no not until lard Dan which is a week or two later no I didn’t itran was off the radar too um he was a good
Writer but um I mean if you look back at his results he had promising results earlier but that was a yeah I didn’t I didn’t notice him I didn’t know really who he was Jill lard Dan um which was you know week week week or 10 days later
Yeah that’s like late cuz that’s because you guys are all the Alps first that time the way it went around France because I think K POI still had over a seven minute lead leaving the Alps so even though you’re saying he’s a bit of a not really on the radar coming into
The race with a seven minute lead leaving the Alps the GC guys have got to be pretty worried about him oh yeah I I mean I realized after lapz I mean he’s riding better than anybody anticipated and um but I felt like okay then I have to start shipping down the
Time anytime I can get you know and I think it was even the next day or two days later S I think yeah uh but I I so I say I look back and I just wasn’t on the top of my game I I really started
Unfortunate like 89 I i’ had Mono and I just barely got to my conditioning at the tour and I I look at my time TR results I wasn’t my best and uh but I kept improving in the tour and and at station say at the end it was a really
Crossman and I do really well in these heilly up and down um circuits and you know we caught him and in and that’s a split in the group and I just you know I think I took four or five I don’t know four or five minutes
Out of him on that day yeah I think he took minutes I’m trying to think back was s was it Santan was that the day when or was this the stage to no was lardi Dan when kipoi went in the break early on that was stage 17 you went over to
Tormal and then finished BL already Dan that was the day you and inur into the Finish yep yep so I I say you got to be tactical I mean it was such a we had a really good team strategy and you got to look at a race it’s a very long race and
You got to um very rare that a a a a breakaway from the early stages of a climb a mountain stage like that’s going to stay away and I think he made a fatal mistake we covered it with some riters and um nobody was working and he was you know thinking
Superman and uh you know we timed it to where I had had two three Riders going Breakaway so that I’m it I did the plan was for me to attack on Talay and I’d have teammates there to pull and then get to L get to lard and try to make up
Time there and that’s what kind of happened but we had added bonus for him uh going in the front it’s kind of reminded me of uh heo in 1986 where he took five minutes up because of the tack Breakaway into POA then the next day he
Thought he’d do a knockout on me and then he went away early Breakaway by himself I’m like that’s suicidal and it was suicidal for him two the worst Moves In for T France’s history racing is not it’s not just being strong it’s being smart too I said I
Mean sometimes I go like you know uh I wish I was Stronger actually but I was sometimes I won races on being acally smart but uh yeah so I mean I I think I I think the Stan stage was was critical for me and I I made up five minutes
Which I think was a a uh that made me kind of put him back into reach and uh and I kept feeling me better so I I I still had a lot of confidence I could do it but I knew that on the stage said at
The end I mean um lard D that was a stage I was hyper nervous because I knew that that was the day I had to take as much time as I could back from him if not all of it your team were noticeably stronger in 1990 like that lzard Den
Stage us still have quite a few guys around you deep into that stage if I remember how did that team stack up from 89 to 90 well I said to myself oh my God my first tter Fran I’ve ever had a team with me I said it’s so much easier it’s
Like it’s so much easier in 86 I didn’t have a team I didn’t I I had nobody paying me I had nobody working for me um I got a ride a couple stages off a youo but nobody you know I’ve always been a rider without a team really I mean
Either an 85 I was the domestic for heo in ‘ 86 I had nobody then ‘ 89 I had a great team PE the Riders on ADR were really great people and Goan M there helped me a couple stages in the flats but they did their best but once we got
Through the M first Mountain Stage they were gone um so we’re having the riders that were really good capable it was just gives you so much more confidence but there is energy saved when you have somebody to Pace you it’s it’s a big deal a massive deal and I think under underestimated that
That help and I I you know that goes back I mean if you jump ahead to 1991 I’m going there’s nobody here’s no finion um I was training ra riding silly better than I ever had since 1986 and I felt I got a good team I to win this
Thing breathing through my nose and it turned out be the opposite um but 89 I still remember um almost getting a fist fight with Claud crilon before the stage the lardi dad because it was um he had an interview that day and I was so pissed at him he said you know uh
This was kind of the mentality of cycling I made so much money said yeah it’s just not right that Grace you know almost many in the tour to France when he was on vacation the US you know uh playing golf eating cheeseburg he went into that same old deal and I just got
So pissed I said you have no clue I was really I was actually so depressed from what like a virus I got so fatigued that I was in californ trying to train and the blue skies were great to me I could I’d go out with my uh best
Friend SW year AO come on a he’d have a motorcycle and i’ to do motor I’d make it 20 minutes from the hotel and fall asleep for two hours so that was my spring and uh it was almost a miracle I got better and so when he said that I
Just it but I got my adrenaline going so we we we got a real pissy match before uh the stage uh I think I didn’t want to get my fight with them but we we didn’t do it so I think coming out of that stage you were well and truly in command
You’re like 5 Seconds off the jersey in the perfect position with a Time TR still to come I know you’re saying you weren’t time tring super well but you got to be really confident going into that time trial against Kia POI you just had a different level in terms of racing
Against the clock than he is yeah I did I think the what this is how you could lose races though I think um the next day after lard Dan we had a stage it was the last climb I think it was very similar to um this last year’s stage but
We went over the Mary Blanc into finishing in Po and and my team is wiped out from the work the day before and uh a lot of attacks and I’m in the lead group but there’s 20 in the lead group um K puty with five carrer Riders Sean
Kelly was there a lot of good Riders and I I had a flat about kilometer and a half before the top of the the climb and I kept looking me I kept rid on the flat but I kept looking for a team car wasn’t there couldn’t find a rider and I got to
The top of that climbing uh couldn’t descend on it I you know took my wheel off I waited two and a half minutes for somebody to come along I finally got a wheel change and but I could see as we’re climbing last kilometer he put you looks back and sees
Me off the back and I could see him yelling his teammates and they just took off and but I had two teammates jilbert Duel at the clev who were in a breakaway eight minutes up um and du CL that was his hometown he was going to finish probably win the
Stage into into dep Po and uh I never went down to climb as fast as I did down to Murray block I mean my teammates um were GNA wait for me I said no no keep going I’ll change the wheel I think half a kilometer later I caught him and pass
Him I had to wait for him at the bottom of the climb uh I think I I went from 2 and a half minutes to like probably 45 seconds but it was they were going flat I had to wait for my teammates so we we stayed about a minute and a half behind
Them and if it wasn’t for my two teammates Clos ball and uh du close out they literally turned around and waited eight minutes for me to come back and then they helped me bridge the gap and that’s where you know that’s the thing that it’s a team sport and uh I wouldn’t
Have won the Tour that year without my team and that’s really what for me separated all my other tours um it was a really team victory that year versus just an individual tour was really it was great because it was it was my first experience having a strong team around
Me my at that time almost 10 years nine years as a pro um and so that’s um was an easy tour for me um the easiest Victory ever you talk the time so the time TR they already about the time TR I was so nervous and
So par not paranoid but like I I wanted to win the Tour so bad and then he was my compet main competition and then I wasn’t thinking even the T I think back why didn’t I think of the stage Victory but I was so relieved like the pressure
Because I was kind of tiip away time Chip Away time so every day was like this Challenge and I got in the time TR I’m like oh I got two and a half minutes I just kind of cruised you know I didn’t I didn’t even think of the stage I kind
Of go why didn’t I think of that today I’m thinking back I think it was just kind of like you know I’ve got for two or three years with so much pressure of not performing well and then I felt like I repeated 1990 like I repeated 89
Coming from behind and I think just mentally it was kind of like just relieved I was going to win the Tour t tour to France win a lot of cycling analysts or cycling historians point to this moment between the 1990 season and the 1991 season as the sport gone
Becoming high octane we’ll call it that something happened in the pelaton at about that point you stopped winning other riders that maybe didn’t have your Talent started winning would you point to that moment around to 91 as the high octane moment 100% a dramatic change although I don’t think any of us
Recognize it at the time not I look back I go okay I want the individual not at my best and in 1990 our team on the team classification and so even that next year the travle was already a Telltale sign I mean most of our team couldn’t
Make it two weeks in the travit we all ended up I had to retire after two weeks in the in the tribul went too fast now I had always allergies I I never always felt little off the tour tour ble but it turns out I have really bad grass
Allergies and it was worse in May but um our team didn’t finish and then um the irony is when I go home I didn’t have a power meter at that time but I went home and I had a vesa that’s where I where I did a you know efforts up
Climbs but the vesa is always my time Tron ability I could I could tell what that speed I could do and how long I could sustain it I was I was writing as well as 1986 um prior to the Tour of France that year and um I felt even
Though my results weren’t showing I couldn’t figure out why um you know but I was so used to kind of not feeling good this early season and they coming back the it it after I got shot before that I you know I was consisted from February to through through the tour
France even after that but I got so used to kind of coming from behind but prior to that tour I was I knew I was runting really well in fact I was second the prologue in the first uh stage in Cen I I was so strong and I took two and a
Half minutes on everybody and even the te time I led I forgot what we didn’t do that well but I rode 50 60% of the time up front and I just felt to my wife I said this is going to be one of my easier T FRS ever it was signally better
1990 significantly better but even five days into that stage into the I think we’re going into champagne cap of u a France I I don’t know it’s kind of however you want to PR pronounce it my French is wor ream I go Reams Reams RS um anyways and we were doing speeds up
These climbs that i’ never experienced and of course I go God I told my wife I said I hope I’m as good as I feel but it was kind of I just start remember at the stage going wow I this is speed that I never really recognized but again
I didn’t think I thought maybe I just wasn’t that good but I ended up you know basically winning the time trial prologue I was any second and uh normally if I’m doing well in the prologue if I feel good in the prologue I’m good I’m back
And uh so that was a surprise and and the each day typically in the T France historically every year if we’re all humans we’re all race hard and and then there’s always a fourth to fifth day that there’s a lag it’s like everybody still gets fatigued at the same time so
There’s a couple days where they’re you know especially long stages of ride and yeey then it’s the battle again and that’s the first tour uh in my whole career that never had a letup we didn’t have that 5-day lag um I look back I I I
Know it’s doing well because I you know the time TRS today are very short but this the first real long time TR was 70 kilometers interad became turned out to be you know five turn turn turn France and great time TRS but you know I’m gonna say this I don’t not accusing
Anybody but um there’s a history of conconi and relationship with the bosu team and I don’t know vran what he was doing but what if he was I don’t know but I know that time TR I was only I I 8 seconds behind him in 70
Kilomet so I know that I was racing at the top of my game at that tour and I think it was three days later this is was the re probably that the eye opener and I still remember looking at Charlie M who won that stage but we were
Recing at denant and it was aund it’s 20040 kilm stage uh we stopped three times for a train but we average like over 50 kilm an hour in the last hour and a half we were doing 60 70 kilometers and I’m going never never experienced that and I think three days
Later into Stage into jaka Haka jaka in in Spain um I was virtual leader I think Luke LeBlanc might have had the Elder Jersey I can’t remember it’s kind of a i i funny when I raceel I could remember every stage but when you’re not they become like a nightmare uh but but
It was a really hot stage and you know I was I was struggling but I had no teammates that day and it was extremely hot and uh I had run out of out of of drinks um 60k before the Finish everybody else has got getting feeds my
Team car wasn’t with me because you were following everybody in the back and and I’ve come down and 30 30ks to go and I’m I’m like it be I need water and Roger refused to refused to do it because it was going to be a 10 or 20 second penalty
Finally I you know was going to get off my bike in was given I had a finishing just wiped out and I had like heat stroke that day and uh but it’s the I think when I look back to the accumulative fatigue you know with everybody’s on EPO and the speeds like
This I think one of my strengths I had a very high V2 Max in over three weeks my I was always just not working as hard as everybody every day and at the end of the three weeks um my recovery was incredible and in fact again going to tour to
France i’ rarely lost more than a Kil or two um which is really Advantage big Advantage when you’re race a tour but then 1991 um I never had a day to recover and uh you I I do look back if I didn’t have that stage in the Jack what
Would I how would I finish but I I I look back it was a nightmare to France for me I still look back I did pretty good I even got seor third I think third place in the last time trial but that was the that was the such a dramatic
Change from all the tours that I ever did before that it was how open was the secret because I a friend and I won’t say who it is because everyone know who he is H he was riding welta espa in the mid90s and he said at that point he was
Basically sure it was only him and two or three other guys who weren’t taking EPO in the race and every noise his team be him like just take it like why are you putting yourself through this just take it it’s so much easier once you take it and he eventually caved and he
Took it and he said the difference was just phenomenal but at that point he said he almost knew for a fact there was him and two or three others there were just a whipping boys at the back of the bunch that weren’t taking it he said he
Could hardly go back for a BT because every day the speed was just pained 48 50 kilometers an hour how open was the use of EPO and other performance enhancing drugs in those early stages excuse the short interruption as you can see from the background I’m over
In beautiful sunny Jona but this isn’t my reality normally I’m time crunched in Dublin I need to make the most of every single error that’s why I heavily rely on my w bike I love it and I recommend it to you because it just works there’s no 10-minute setup no unfolding legs
Banging my shins off stuff or wrestling to take a back greasy wheel off just jump on and it works it’s also compatible with all the major egaming platforms connects instant L if you’re looking for an indoor trainer I couldn’t recommend it any higher it’s the last indoor trainer you’re ever going to need
Head on over to W bike.com and use the code roadman 10 that’s roadman teen and that’s going to knock you 10% off your W bike today it’s I I I I say this without you know I race in the French team and you know the one thing I know is when I
Raced with PDM um I went back there and I so fortunate I was injured that year because at the end of the year I mean tenise and Rooks were positive in the tour uh I realized that was the first true organized doping team that and I left that team under for reasons for
That reason and I wanted them to get rid of whoever gave the drugs to tenise and Rooks and um they wouldn’t do that and we they knew that I um was not going to participate and we just kind of falling out and I left the team that’s the first
Time I realized um something and I say I don’t remember it 19991 and Johannes drer that was on PDM uh his wife middle of the night I think 3 in the morning she called my wife first morning that she talked to her husband was passed away in in the
Middle of the night so sad and so we this is I think it was that year that we started hearing about EPO for the first time um but still we didn’t know how prevalent it was and even then you could talk to my teammates in
1991 we were suspect I mean we’re I I’m not a typical writer that goes I’m not racing well and I’m thinking somebody else is doing something I got so used to not writing well from 80 after ‘ 86 that I just I just figure as part of my the
Way I had you know morphed uh after my hunting accident so for me I think I’m trying to think I think it was 92 92 or 93 that we I’d say it’s 93 that our our team truly became aware of it and this is when it was discovered that
Ferrari concone and I think Chini were you know those are the three doctors and I say conone now is very well written historically documented Stefano Donati he was this why I don’t maybe hold internet the same accountability that I should maybe and I because I don’t have
Proof but and I do believe some writers here had no clue if they’re given something because conone at the time was working for the olyp the Olympics for tying Olympic to do tests on how did he detect EPO but he was using pro riders in a guinea pig so
He’s doing this you know it’s working both sides both ends of the deal and uh and I I I believe that the rise of all these guys kuchi and everything I don’t want to accuse them of doing but it was such a quick transition from you know I
Raced with CI since ‘ 86 ’85 86 and he was a domestique I’m sorry he wasn’t that good of a rider and then I remember 92 he broke away to Sri year I won the Tour three times I was last Rider in that stage I
Was an hour behind him and I go that was a tour I I but even then I don’t know I try to think back to I don’t think that was still the reason I gave why I didn’t do well I was it was kind of like I kept
Looking you know I started thinking something’s wrong with me and um physically and uh but I would say I remember the team meeting 1993 I can’t remember it’s 92 I think it’s the beginning of 1993 we had a new team team z uh retired the Gan insurance company
Called Gan um had um sponsor the team and this is kind of how the doping can go on so Roger Le you know I won the Tour of France once we had a great 1990 but our team performed miserably outside of Duke l s winning um perer bay’
92 Roger was able to get a sponsorship but not the same level that he had with Team Z and he was under intense pressure to get per results and I don’t think he was aware that our writers weren’t getting results because nobody was on a program and some of the
Writers had known other Riders and teamed and I just remember Philip cido stood up and and Le saying guys I got to tell you I’m under T Pressure and if you can’t perform we’re going to have to reduce your salary you know 50% and and I
Remember C said listen you know this is just really happening in the in in the teams um got Ferrari they’re taking EPL they’re taking testosterone and he said either you lay off and let us race no change in salary or you deliver the same doctor basically and it wasn’t that he
Was asking to do it he’s just saying you know either you can’t have you know you can’t just penalize this for not doping good you know and and I I more power to Roger he said no way I could ever do that ethically uh there already yanis
Ster died he said I could never live with myself there was U health consequences and I’m saying that was our team and that’s I never saw doping in our in our the French teams and I know that it existed but I never saw it and
Lvi Clair U Renault nothing and so so um but sadly Duke I mean Philip cido in 19 at the end of 93 in ’94 he left to meaton Uno and I remember at the perom Eric Mo and I were um at the start and uh phelip cedo came
Up and he said you know he came up he was always a really good attitude always upbeat he said oh God you guys don’t stand a chance I just got done with t t uh T Spain we call it breathing through your nose that means you’re there’s no
Effort he Saidi wasn’t even good shape but I was given EPO growth testosterone he said you guys can’t compete without it I mean it’s impossible he said makes that much difference it’s it’s it’s transformational and so so what do you think both but both Eric and I looked at
Each other though this I mean this is the truth we said it’s time to quit and uh I was racing and I I started using a power meter 92 and the iron is I would go out if I wasn’t racing with the pelaton I would get to
Really close to what I thought was world class 400 watts up a climb 390 400 watts and that’s really kind of even if you look back at some of the studies that’s what I average up the tour although I go what did I really average because I
Wasn’t riding my best I think maybe in 86 I was higher than that um but uh when I would in a really well trained program where I could train and rest I was good the moment I got into racing my wats this is me specifically
And and Roger Le my coach at the time I felt like I was a always a whiner but I kept saying just swe Fetti I’m always tired my arms are heavy I was always so tired in between races and um and I found a strain Steel in 93 n94 that the
More I as I race and typically when you’re fatigued your power goes down but your heart rate corresponds and I was heart rate was sometimes stain that at at a high level like like Peak and then I would see a 20% 15 20% drop in my my power up and in
The end it turned out to be that I had a mitochondrial disease mitochondria is the power cells that produce ATP that’s where you take your blood fuel everything you generate ATP through anob glycosis and and aerobic and uh when I did a biopsy 20% of my mitochondri weren’t functioning so there was
Something going on with me and I I I met a scientist from Brussels who I actually saw when I had Epstein bar um he’s the one uh diagnosed me um he felt that I was having damage from the lead poisoning that it was causing my mitochondria to shut down and I think
It’s true um so it was a very confusing last two years but we we jokingly said the high-speed bike rider in the pelaton was Dr Ferrari and because the rumor was he was getting he was getting 10 to 20% of each Rider salary now you think of
The riders that dominated think of um what’s the team that was Perry Bay that five riders with breakway I mean yeah tradea it was it was obnoxious it truly was obnoxious it was like it’s when I look back it’s um I was so into my own suffering that I
Didn’t really I didn’t even follow Psych I mean I did I had no clue what who was running races 9394 because I was barely able to finish races but when I look back it it was a massive transformation I truly believe if EPO didn’t happen I would have won five tours it shorten
Your career absolutely I would have won 91 I’m certain I would have won 91 um without um if EPO wasn’t there I believe I was a better Rider than in Duran and and uh even my performance results look you know show that in um it’s just interesting because you hear about
Different different stories it’s you know I heard indan has a 92 V2 Max then I heard well he’s not he’s got a lower one but somehow they changed it but this goes Armstrong he he literally had a 78 V2 Max 79 and but the wattage he was
Doing he had over 100 milliters of oxygen which impossible um but I think a lot of writers got cheated out of their career and I think the one riter that in this irony this is crazy about fon and this has been the way I’ve looked at
It there’s a lot a lot of writers that say like an Andy hamston who wasn’t he don’t I don’t think he experienced the physical fatigue I did or some of the other writers and part of it was because F fan had when I talked to him in 2009 he he described without even
Prompting he told me uh Gatorade was an on everybody’s on EPO he just he wouldn’t do it but he said I was so tired I couldn’t get in the grand Plateau the Big Chain ring and he said I was so tired that I would race and go
Home and rest he said I could barely lift my arms I got oh you got to be kidding me that was me I I kept I felt like I just you know Sabah how’s how are you doing today that’s what you say every morning just swe fattig that’s
What say justwe fattig again Roger Le go crazy going come on you can’t be tired every day I’m tired every day and I looked at it because as when you are normally in the front of the group you know when you’re riding well at home you know you’re feeling good
I would ride in the front until I blew and most domestics let say riders that aren’t used to be in there they’ll get their physical limit and they’ll back off so they were always keeping with their limit that means they recovered I would go in and blow up and it was like
Basically chronically overtraining like doing too many intervals and I think fan did the same thing we would ride expecting why shouldn’t we be next to in why shouldn’t we be next to these guys that we were dropping a year before two years before and we would go to a
Blue and when you do that every race you get fried and so um anyways this it’s it’s a it really sadly really did um darken the end of my career I mean I I I I left cycling with a bad bad taste in my mouth I I did not like the sport when
I when I ended why do you think when we look back now it’s like you talk about PDM like they’re a pretty prolific open reputation as a team Sean Kelly is in that team Shan Kelly tests positive for performance enhancing drugs during his career but his reputation is largely
Unsullied from that he also look at like like a Marco pantani well documented book on the debt of Marco Pani where talks you know quite openly about historic drug use basically all through his career but yet he’s a hero in Italy but then there’s other writers that are
Totally demonized for the exact same behavior it seems like we’ve real double standard when it comes to how we viewed them well I think there’s level different levels of I do believe some of the Riders I I struggle with indan I just say this because I don’t want to accuse
Him anything but I look he’s a really good person I like him and I read enough to know that if by chance he was given stuff I don’t think he purposely said okay I think there was you know even some of these teams they don’t tell you
Exactly I think PDM writers you’re just taking some vitamins they do drug test and then the problem is they get in there and the doctors from the physiological part from a medical perspective absolutely you could say that somebody racing the tour French should be taken testosterone because the testosterone you’re eating testosterone
Your cortisol levels go up the stress hormone so to get back to homeostasis yeah take steroids but it’s illegal and of course that’s the whole challenge of racing naturally is that it’s the natural talent and smart racing tactics how you save energy that is what how you succeed in racing it it
Isn’t trying to constantly balance it I hear this argument well you are genetically better why shouldn’t somebody take drugs to be equal to you I well that’s the way it is it’s black and white so then why why do we have sports at all if that’s the case then you know
Then do car racing and you know car racing and everything’s leveled that’s not Sports so there’s always this justification but I I I would say the writers I I look back I’m pissed off the governing body I think hver Bugan he knew exactly it was going and I always
Looked at Graham oy as a a victim of oldw world ego and disgust me because here’s a guy that’s brilliant creative he goes on and he breaks the out record but it upset Franchesca Moser and the traditional and the record is one place where you allow people to be creative
Aerodynamics and he blew people away but he went against the grain and I they spent more time trying to take away his deal his titles at the meantime they turned a blind eye to the mass amount of doping it was so well known that if ver bran absolutely knew what was going on
And so I always look if you corrupted the top it corrupts everybody below and the rers I I I call compliant Victim Because I don’t believe en Rider starts off at 15 to 16 falls in love with cycling plans on doping but the sport is so hard and then you get these doctors
Like Ferrari and that they convince you it’s not harmful everybody else is doing it but it’s not true and uh but they convince themselves and they justify because they believe everybody’s doing it and um well I don’t want to be a disadvantage and sadly it’s there’s a
Lot of people I um who’s the guy that uh the French writer that talked out about Armstrong and but yeah I know I know you’re talking about obviously you know you know there’s Talent probably way better than Armstrong that didn’t do it I know that there’s a lot of writers out
There that were way better than Armstrong that you never saw because his Armstrong I hate to say it was a very mediocre Talent he 78 79 V2 Max will not win you w get you in the top 20 of the Tour of France I’m sorry would and I’ve
Seen his physiology I’ve seen the test and so you go who is the victims the people who chose not to do it were victims of it so what were their choices either get F I mean the problem even then is by a certain point if you
Weren’t willing to do it you’re going to get off you’re G to be let go of the team and to me I still look at the French French teams I think after fistina Affair um they were the cleanest and most ethically uh correct teams because it became criminal in France and
I don’t think the French are born cheaters they’re just not I I’ve race with them um I think uh writers if they given a chance of course every writer if they get away with it and and uh never be shamed and you know and if everybody’s doing it they’d probably try
To get away with it that’s why controls and penalties have to be in place because athletes are humans and they all want to be competitive and it takes a very special family and with ethics and morals to to avoid that and even then I’m skeptical because I’m going I was
Blessed with a massive Talent real really truly one in it 10 million talent and so I was already 18 years old I was winning proon races at at 19 I was s joof um with Hino and you know the out so I felt like I never had to do
Anything because I was already there I was competitive the moment I turned Pro and I didn’t come from a history of any cycling I came from America but had I turned Pro in 1992 with the same passion I had in cycling I don’t know what I would have
Done I would to believe I wouldn’t do that but I can’t say because I was back to 1988 I am so lucky that I was injured that year and I was out from PDM because if I was one time I was vulnerable I could have been easily convinced it take
Some stuff to recover you had a hunting accident you need this and and had I done that I think the danger is you have you take something and you have a good race you don’t think you can do without it and I I truly believe that I think
Bunch writers dope they could never go clean because it’s a big difference can you allow yourself any amount of Sympathy for the position that Armstrong found himself in so he takes EPO at a certain point he wins tour one he wins tour two he wins T tree at a certain
Point now there’s a big support team that are all invested in this Armstrong brand and there’s mechanics Swan publicists everyone’s going to lose a job that the LIE gets so big at some point that the LI was the LI was there before he won the Tour the lie was there
No he was I think that’s except to Armstrong is that you know pantani pantani wasn’t a bully he wasn’t uh a guy that threatened people Armstrong got what was given to him because he treated like people like [ __ ] and threatened everybody who went against him but he
Knew what he was doing and I they still don’t think the whole story about Armstrong’s victories is pure EPO I’m just telling you it’s not something doesn’t add up in his performance his his wattage output versus his V2 Max even with EPO doesn’t make sense he’s
It’s even with EPO he says that the most talented Rider in that time was Yan oric by far and I think that Armstrong you know he bribed the uh UCI uh direct I mean in 1999 so he he had to get out of jail card that no other riter had so I
Don’t look him at all like the other writers in fact Pont at him in 2002 and he was he’s a hero now but he was villainized at the time maybe what led to his death also as well he had high EPO he wasn’t caught with doping he had
A high red blood cell count and so at the same time he knows what’s happening with Armstrong and Armstrong’s like the hero the comebacking like can’t do anything wrong then then you have a a uh hanani who like everybody else is doing it he is treated like
A villain so and you look at it I met him this kid’s he’s a nice guy I could tell you could he was suffering from depression we talked about depression and um but I look at him he came from a family that had ethics and morals and he
Knew what he was doing wasn’t what he really wanted to do and that’s part of the shame he got busted and you know I look at Tyler Hamilton Floyd Landis too they you know there’s a lot of Shame involved in in in getting out and and
They all end up drinking and why did they do that is kind of self-medicating and that’s what happened to to uh fantani he his morals conflicted with what he did as a cyclist and that’s where I said you’re not looking at there’s take a pelaton there’s going to
People don’t they don’t give a [ __ ] I mean they they’ll look at it like like everybody’s doing it but there’s a lot of people that go that’s not who I am that’s not my core values like for me it just something I I would have never felt
Like any of my victories were legitimate and I still think there’s a lot of writers that race with that were dop they end up going you know I think there’s a lot of writers that haven’t taken pride in their VI their careers because they know they
Were imagine I’ve seen videos of in the mid 2000s I mean individual writers Russians I have a tape that somebody gave me I mean they’re doing this they’re talking to the girlfriend while they’re doing IV of blood transfusion and it became like a a really dark labor
I mean you were like an experimental rat a cyclist and I still think of I forgot twas I can’t remember the writer that who crashed in the Tour of France the director they had given him a maybe a Spanish writer they given him a bad bad of blood or something like or new
Experimental drug that I think it about a new experimental drug and the guy almost died and first thing the director fortif didn’t say you know try to save the kid’s life he just came up to him as he passed out you better not say anything he’s trying to protect himself
The team didn’t give a [ __ ] about his life the kid crazy crazy and then they were given I heard I heard they were giving writers anti-depressants and I’ve taken anti-depressants and I could tell you trying to get off an anti-depressant is you could commit suicide because it’s your brain serona
Retic Inhibitors you stop that it’s like you crash and I would tell you it’s like I think of these Riders man I’m I’m happy there’s not more suicides after racing so I think the mental health part is a part that was brushed over in all that and I know you mentioned Tyler
Hamilton there Tyler someone I had him on the podcast when I started podcast really early and I’ve had him on a bunch of times since and you know what I’d call Tyler a friend now he’s a nice guy and I don’t think I don’t think just
Broadly in society I don’t think we are the worst thing we’ve ever done I don’t think if you take one data point one snapshot of the worst thing I’ve ever done and you use that to judge my whole character it’s not a fair assessment absolutely absolutely and I think I used
Tyler Hamilton as I I met Tyler Hamilton early in the 90s and he a really nice guy and I think that’s why he couldn’t you know an Aran could lie through his teeth it doesn’t bother him at all but the fact that Tyler had to lie about things and
Then never came clean on it just ate him up he end up drinking end up destroying his life and really the fact that he came out was the healing part and ABN no more lies and I think I I feel bad for yanor because he was in implic operation
Puerto and denied it but suffered for 15 years addiction and drinking and it’s had they’ve been able to come clean and right away this is what I mean the iry with like Floyd L come right away let’s say when when he was discovered operation PTO people are forgiving if
You could admit your mistakes and you know it’s very cleansing I think yeah it is and I tried to I tried to convince that to Floyd Landis in 2006 I think I found out he was positive before he did and I already heard rumors and I I you
Know that you know all I just had said you know Floyd somebody asked me I said Floyd if just do not do what Tyler did I’m clean and because I I actually talked to him I wanted to I was try propos the to the uh wed that you know you should be really
Looking at plea Bargains and and you know if you’d had gone in and busted riders in the 90s and they were given a chance to race again right away but they had to out everybody who was in part of from the swaner to the KN director to the doctor those guys were
Permanently Bann for life that’s how you stopped the the chain and with really strong controls but you look at I remember reading about operation per night 2006 uh a guy named Dr mabo Mr abuse mabo was implicated and gimar told a story about this same veterinarian then
He was a tour doing the tour 1971 the guy gave him cortisone injection almost destroyed his knees here I go 71 to 2006 this same guy is still doping Riders so Ferrari is still doing it today and con’s I don’t know what kone’s doing but forart still involved with cycling and
Riders so I look at Riders and I said it’s AR’s not the same as pantani it’s not the same as um he he manipulated he used his cancer as a a teie a Teflon Shield any he other Rider he was positive 200 and at 20 1999 in
His first year um that’s who was the blame for that was that ver bran McQuade who was there at that time I believe it was a team it was the whole sport didn’t want I mean they just got over fistina think of that get over fistina and then
Have another Rider destroy the tour FR so I look at the whole culture didn’t want that exposed but uh he was tell he so you have that contrast compared to Pon who was vilified as um bandito and and I just had a hard time even with
Armstrong this is before we had a run in but the way he treated riters he he mocked and uh treated like pontani like he was an idiot um you know and you know it’s anyways it’s it’s there’s certain people that um that are born cheaters and Armstrong’s a born cheater I’m sorry he
Is well I love that expression it’s nice to be important but it’s more important to be nice yeah yeah yeah that’s right well but sadly in the truth in the world really bad people get away with a lot of stuff and unfortunately a lot of people get make extreme wealth through
Cheating and unethical things and but if they could live with them th so that’s fine I mean I I couldn’t do it but do you think we need to change the equation because for me it’s incentives so you have that if you cheat the potential upside of cheating it’s multi-million
Dollar contracts endorsement deals Fame Rockstar girlfriends the downside of getting cheating it’s a two to four year holiday and then you come back into the sport it doesn’t seem like the penalty fits the crime I know there’s reputational damage as well but we SE with valde you know people get over that
Pretty fast and everyone’s talking about what an amazing career Val had he’s just on the podium the grav no they should should get back into the sport unless they’re I said they have to give something back that means they have to give who their sources are
If he said oh it’s by myself I didn’t have anybody that he’s banned for life I’m saying that to get the root cause you can’t you’re not going to get rid of doping unless you get rid of the suppliers it’s and then you know I think
Writers need to have an inceptive to be honest it’s it’s kind of the opposite but if they can’t be honest you never it’s never just there’s always a team that’s working together to do this the most important thing is continued advancement in medical drug testing um
And I said the biggest risk for me in the last 20 20 years has been motor doping um and I think motor doping is uh been there since the late 90s and uh it’s won a lot of big races and I still think that’s a big risk because I think
That if people don’t believe it’s there um I can promise you it’s there it’s in the pellaton do I see it to I think I’ve heard rumors that it could be um it doesn’t take a whole lot of help to make a big difference um I try to tell people
You got a power driver like you buy a hardware store like they call it you got a a drill or you can do a power driver that has more good ebike motor um that for cities is 4 40 Newton meters of torque power driver has 500 new meters of torque and
It’s got a little battery pack like this this big and you put that on a that that you you only need five minutes at that you you I’ll be five five minutes on somebody on a climb and so uh the hidden motor that I think
Was used to win many tours that I’ve had a bike uh it’s a 250 watt motor that will give you 18 minutes at 250 Watts or 30 minutes at 150 watts and just to put that in context so I’m still racing cat one and the difference between me being
A local cat one Warrior and winning stages in Turtle France it’s a lot less than 100 Watts like so 250 watt difference is massive so let’s say you’re a rider that high 7 say equal way to me you’re capable at 340 watts right I’m capable of 400 watts
So I’ll do at about 75 76 kilos last year I think I was doing around 395 Watts 76 kilos yeah it’s not bad but like I can’t Doh now if you race today you go on starvation diets you probably get your be you could win a lot of races
I think it’s interesting today I have a little different philosophy about the speeds and everything’s going all they have to be doing something because a fashion of clients but I think the morphology of ryers today versus even 10 15 years ago has changed a lot and I I
Been racing today I probably inste racing 68 kilos probably raced at 65 or 64 now every kilo is about a minute minute half up a climb and I don’t think the only way I could get there because I was at four or five% body fat but I’ve
Read and her Riders you know going on diets and if I don’t know how they’re doing this because if you restrict calories too much you’ll your body goes in a catabolic State and it’ll eat muscle mass for fuel so what I’ve heard is Riders go on they take Cortisone and
They starve so they’re literally EA muscle mass away but in order to get out of that you have to take testosterone recover but I think that’s what you’re seeing riders today are I Riders look like you know 12y olds on a bike today they’re so you heard Reuters taking
Drugs to dealify their bones to make them lighter that’s crazy yeah that’s why I’ve heard that off record now that we’re seeing a lot of breaks and crashes because of that because the bones are so brittle well they would they would do that anyways if you’re it would happen
Anyways if you’re truly training for periods and you you you is so efficient you know everybody when I would start the season and contrary to everybody I did underwater fat test and everything I mean the highest I ever got was 9% one year I think it was might have been
1992 or 93 but I typically is five to seven 7% but with before 86 kley we everybody had sh up at 5% so we were very thin what you don’t see today is if you look back in the racing we were bigger Riders and so what happened now
If you diet and you train really long and you’re taking cortisone you can go into a catabolic State and eat away muscle mass so Riders are very thin if I think at vinard is what he’s my height and he’s 60 kilos 61 kilos that’s eight kilos lighter that’s why he has a high
Bo he has a high BO2 Max at 96 milliliters but because of his weight now he weighed my the same weight as me his V2 Max would be significantly lower but that’s so you you so for sure if you’ve got a if you’re producing 76
Kilos now imagine if you go to 68 kilos I raised that 68 when I was in France for 68 K it was horrible horrible 68 kilos at 68 kilos I’m sorry 68 kilos at 395 that’s my wattage output yeah so and but the problem is what I’d seen when I
Was training with and racing with guys who are World Tour level I can put out those numbers when I’m you know jumping on his whift ride and I warm up or I do it or doing a local TT but these guys can do it after five hours they can do
It after six hours they do it after seven hours this is a very good topic because I keep hearing people about oh he’s doing 700 Watts there’s only one wattage output that matters it’s a functional power output your threshold that’s the only one that you could really compare because I keep hearing
Normalized normalized power output extended what they’re doing is they’re trying to take these higher paks and that they’re actually achieving a higher average wattage the only one that is the gold standard goes back to when I started using power meter is what you can stain for say 30 to 40 minutes to an
Hour yeah and that’s what I call when you talk about climate BL that’s the one matters because I’ve been able to do I remember before the doof this is kind of it’s crazy doof um in 1990 four was racing horribly but I did small climb but for 20 minutes averaged
430 Watts yeah that’s huge complan but but it can’t for 20 minutes so it’s the wattage output that you go my sprinting ability even at the end of my career didn’t use power meter when I was racing but I would I do 14,500 wats in a Sprint
I remember doing tter flag ERS one year I did I quit at the 16 cles but I did most of the cles are around 500 watts or more Fred Ro was on the podcast recently Fred Ro’s the British champ at the moment riding for baharin and he
Averaged he’s been top 10 in tour of Landers last two years he averaged somewhere between 350 and 360 Watts for the entire tour of Landers T Landers yeah so the question but it’s the question is how much watch that’s that’s we because it’s racing really fast and
But what you realize in cycling and I just want to clarify this with people who start comparing what watch people are cheating because oh you I read this last year oh Pacha Pacha however you want to pronounce his name oh he average four 500 watts for a minute in a climb
Of course you could do that it’s a sustainability of over 40 minutes that matters if you watch the Power output on a climb you got to see jumps at 450 down below all that but it’s all about your lactate threshold it’s all about your metabolism lactate and your fueling um
And so when you get to really high level the tour you can write very close your VI to Max and you could go above your threshold for short period but you have to come back and recover but when I when I hear people going I guess jumping to conclusion because
They’re going fast up a climb I look at today and I go now I’m as optimist so there could be I’ve heard some Motors I’ve heard this but I look I looked at Kowski I think it was who won called the Grand the grand Columbia stage this year I think it
Kowski I think he was yeah it might have been Kowski actually yeah he he released yeah he released his uh Power used average 375 watts he was had a three minute lead at the bottom of the climb he didn’t have he didn’t gain this you know 30 40ks before just before he lost
Three minutes to the vard uh pagota at the top I figur they’re doing and I look at I always compare myself Goa is 68 kilos he probably averaged 420 Watts 410 to 420 watts to be at the top to me there’s no indication of massive doping
Nor of of of of a power meter and I think you know I think got is the most talented Rider I think if he loses two kilos they’ll take vegard vard is absolutely the skinniest guy I’ve ever seen yeah these guys are riding pretty fast up the clins because um they’re
Very thin and then it’s always been even back when I raised it was a power to weight ratio it was very important I mean I got scars on my body from somebody pinching me all the time like if you had more than two millimeters of
Fat you’re fat and so but it’s sadly for the writers today it’s become people are aware that it’s such a big Advantage weight that now they’re looking at how do we get below um 5% body fit I was shocked even I heard that some Riders
Even like um this F was 9% body fat I never Rec it at the at the t f at 9% but part of that is muscle weighs a lot more than fat if you lose a lot of muscle mass your percentage of fat you could be 130 pounds 120 pounds you could have
High percentage body fat because your the muscle density in your body is very low and so the irony is Riders I raceing I get over the T at 3% body fat but I muscle mass weighs a lot and I you know I even when I was racing I have bicep
Muscles today if I was racing I would probably we have to race three or four kilos to be competitive and so I look at r i I look really optimistically at the racing right now I think they’re riding what’s really um back to normal even though they’re going fast stages are
Shorter um they’re the equipment every Rider is this why I go back and debate with Antoine Veer I haven’t debated with him but you know you can’t just go back you got to the only way you can see if Riders are really going faster is to know somebody’s O2 Max take the same
Weight and then do real calculations on on the road um I don’t see any crazy rides at 450 for 175 Watts which would indicate um which would indicate doping the the hidden deal is you could have um you could have a motor and so on your
Your wat is do you’re only doing 400 400 watts but you had 50 Watts there’s you can’t discover that so it is good to have some time reference of a climb but um the the mechanical dopping should be eliminated immediately because it’s it’s all about an x-ray you can x-ray every
Bike in 30 a minute if if the sport wants to make sure that doesn’t happen when you have time to reflect Now Greg and you sit quietly and you look back on your entire career is there anything you regret anything you would have done different even I’m thinking even post
Career do you regret taking that bottle to Armstrong I didn’t take it to him that’s the Eary I was armed with so much more information than than I even let out by took this 20 20 uh 2000s when his mechanic J told me what’s going on and I
Didn’t come public with that and uh and the irony is I kept hearing stuff that was brought to me I never sought it out I mean I I remember 1999 I think James start he’ll hear this but he called me in October he said oh right you know
Because I was a big cheerleader for Armstrong I I I I don’t think it’s real he said you know I heard about this Hospital scene where he admitted to all the drugs so I heard that I kind of dismissed it I you know remember hearing teammate mine tell me that Armstrong
Before this 1992 he was going to win it has something that’s undetectable and I kind of left that off and then I found out he was Ferrari that was the deal for me was a deal killer um but I was caught in an interview with David Walsh at my
Home after the 20 01 tour and he had just outed Armstrong and ferrar’s relationship before the tour and Armstrong got wind a bit and to me you can’t be this clean Rider and have a relation with Ferrari but he preempted it with this magical PR deal announcing
It before that the article came out in the newspaper that he was using Ferrari for diet and training for the hour record well he never did the hour record you know um and it was way to diffuse the shock of that news and I just one
Time just said David you’re going in the right direction because I knew that he was you know seeing ferari he said you know you know and I I said my mom taught me and I remember in the 2000 when I learned about what aringer was doing
Just from jul and I you know my mom T me and my parents you know I don’t have a good thing to say don’t say it at all and and and so I had tried to figure out even a comment in 2000 when Armstrong won because unfortunately for me I was
The American writer and he was a new writer this morning the tour and everybody called me tell me you know ask me my opinion and I remember 2000 I just all I could say that was honest to me was you know I didn’t want to be the one
That broke the news um I just said his victory is unbelievable and so you take it two ways it’s not believable or unbelievable I don’t know it was one way I could be honest with myself and then I think 2001 David Walsh I did not know as
Him I got a rank I think three four days after the tour a week after and hey Greg this is David I said hey David how you doing and and you know wanted to me to comment on his victory they said David I have nothing I say will be good
It will be taken as whatever you want to take it it will be not good and he said you know he wanted to get me to he knew what I I mean I I congratulated him on his his investigative reporting uh but he wanted a quote from me and I said I
Have nothing good to say and he said well would you agree that if this come back back if he’s clean it’d be the greatest comeback in the his I said yeah yes and um and if he wasn’t I said well it’d be the greatest fraud well newspaper came out Greg leemont great
Greatest come back and I mean it was my became my quote and oh armr called me up a week later threatened me and I had um Trek CEO I had Tom wisel all threatening me and you know USA Today a guy named Sal rubal came out with an apology for
Me which I never gave and um it was like I have was not given a choice I was going to have my bike company everything destroyed I didn’t go along with it but I refused to even sign off the press release but it came out anyways um and
So I didn’t start that battle Armstrong did but he started because he knows that I knew that he he he’s the one they Ed the early political strategy what you see today they had a group called public strategies which was they they developed they were political iCal people Consulting Group that would attack
Political opponents and with false information and they started creating this kind of brag to sort loser I I still remember in 1994 I did an interview with um lumon and I just said Armstrong is threatening my way of life you know he’s and it did come out as he’s threatened
My life I said he’s threatening my way of living but um I remember Tre what did you mean well he had I was pretty open to say you know I can’t really comment I said he has basically used attorneys and raised with Trek and he’s threading my
Way of my way of making a living um if I speak out and I said I’m you know I’m trying to I’m kind of looking I figured Armstrong GNA get busted and I had I thought I had a good relation with Trek and John Burkin I figured one day it’s
Going to get busted I didn’t want to destroy one I thought was a good relationship and but I was asked um more about why aren’t you ton and I said you know because I’m about a gag order me he said if I talk my bike’s coming he
Goingon to be destroyed and uh so it came out that he threatened my way of life and I remember my attorney getting a call from TX saying the contract’s over I for what because what he said well apparently um an interview with you you said that Armstrong thre away your
Your life I said said what well uh I said it was he my way of life he said it doesn’t matter and he said well um it hit the press and I said what it was supposed to come on Sunday I looked in Google or whatever is at that time the new source
In 2004 it had not even hit the US News and Tre claimed it did and they then they produced all these supposed emails that I was going to buy a lemon now I’m not going to buy Lon or I’m not going to buy Tre they Pro aund of them before the
News even got to the US they’re all fake they they did this this is kind of the stuff that they you know Trek and Armstrong and they did to me for years and you know the hilarious part about that Greg it’s one of the comments that
Was on our YouTube and I must have got a I don’t know tens if not you know 20 30 40 DMS or emails from people of various iterations of I’ve taken a note here I’ll never buy a trek or Bell Helmets again after watching that last interview team Greg h okay
Okay it was I I I would have to say it was U it impacted me dramatically because I became I would talk in short sentence I watched every word I said um you know I had an attorney for bike riders who came up he’d called me and said Greg you
Know person you thought was a friend I’ll say it right now Bob R I don’t care if he hears this um was wired I was in a bike shop and we they sold my bikes run Keel bike shop and uh the attorney said somebody he was wired trying to get to
Say something that was lialis and the whole I the goal with ar is to get me to say something that insane they could threaten me with yeah and so I became very paranoid whoever I talked to and and I I did get I I impacts me today I I
Have became less outspoken less you know kind of like an abused person you end up watching everything you say because you’re G to get knocked out and it it did have a big impact because um what I hated about that was took my voice away
This is a sport I loved and it it it it shut me down and my only regret is I would have just said I wanted to preserve the my bike I wanted to preserve this relationship with truck and I felt that it was just a matter of time but I realized no it
Wasn’t it didn’t matter I thought John Brook would appreciate somebody who’s ethical and honest and I told him well people vote 50% Republic Democrat let people buy lamon let people buy Tre and uh but I’m certain Tre gave him the Al I mean Armon gave the ultimatum so I was
Over there had I really look back I all I regret is I just didn’t divorce myself from Tre earlier on and uh go my separate way because I spent to be honest spent so many years defending myself and lawyer fees that uh with Tre I mean the lawsuit itself was just I
When they WR book about it because I it’s just so bizarre I mean I end up having to settle with them because of crazy stuff that uh um that shouldn’t have happened in my lawsuit um so it was it’s a very difficult but I I go I I
Would not have I couldn’t have changed that I do I regret if I yeah if I look back I go yeah I would have I I what I regret is being cryptic about stuff being crypted not just going fully that I was fully aware what was Armstrong was doing like should have
Told him about everything I was told in 2000 should told them everything that I knew and then it’s not I’m not just sitting here jealous this is like I’m getting I I got information I don’t even want to hear honestly I didn’t want to hear it I was given to it given shoved
Shoved down my my throat or my put into my ears and but once you become aware of that so the Imagine in 2000 I’m he’s with Ferrari is juic to the Gill he’s denigrating punani he’s making commercials like I just train harder it became like you’re watching
This fraud you’re going it it was sickening and it it wasn’t just like Oh I’m a cancer survivor you know this is what I did no it was anger underneath there he was like you know putting this middle finger to the world and and people bought into that which is like
Okay some people buying it that’s not a champion that’s like a a psychopath that’s a crazy guy that’s got possessed for winning and I just go um you know arong I I believe did get caught up I’m not saying that it’s very addicted to with the tour but and I can’t say it’s
All him I think he had some very bad advisers and I think that people around him were were part of that whole whole deal I I I believe Tom wiisel wasn’t the best guy either and I think Armstrong maybe with a different person who advise him differently might acted differently
I don’t know but um Armstrong hasn’t been he was you know the is if he would let me we just argued it out you know he could oh that’s your opinion I you know we probably wouldn’t have this ongoing feud but what you realize is um I hate
Being bull bullied some bullish I don’t care I’ll I’ll go down before I have to capitulate and so but do I regret I I regret that it took so much energy and away from my family it it it damaged really hurt my kids I mean people you
Know they were all impacted by it because people treated me like I was some hasb been cyclist that we just jealous of of Armstrong and I am the I have no jealousy for anybody I I don’t envy anybody I like my life I like what
I’ve done and I have and I’m I said I’m the last person to kind of start assuming people are cheating to get ahead um it’s only when I get overwhelmed with facts that becomes um you know but you kind of know the truth it’s very hard to sit back and you know
Either I I I literally did kind of have to walk away from the sport uh after that because it was um I couldn’t be honest talking to journalists and uh uh I was threatened with a lawsuit for almost 10 years at that point um and
Became so my only regret is I spent I look at business I I think of the time I spent defending myself I could have just walked away from there and taken that same money and built stuff cre stuff um and um you know anyways excuse the really short Interruption I wanted to
Wait to bring the roadman virtual community together for a weekly Meetup I was a little bit frustrated with the coffee roid virtual community so I said let’s test ourselves each week we’re going to have a race against the clock just you me and the rest of the roadman
Community to join this weekly 16 kmet time tral click on the Discord link L below and all the details for our myosh weekly ride are in our Discord group can’t wait to race you next Tuesday Greg we started the podcast with some YouTube feedback I’m gon to end it with that as
Well somebody said the most famous quote in cycling is attributed to you and they wanted to know if you actually ever said it it never gets easier you just go faster that’s an official quote for me at 18 years old I 18 19 years old 19
Years old I had just signed my contract with Renault on the Shams l in 1980 and then we had an official signing PR deal with Renault in New York City and I was staying at the United Nations Plaza United Nations Plaza Hotel and this weird American journalist was you know there
And I know seems like some I know mystical I don’t know what she was writing for because I but she kept trying to say what you know do I do I have an out-of- body experience when I go hard and I I literally I kept trying
To say you know like I just remember when I got in cycling it it heard when I I remember one heal out out of Carson City that my first time I I had a walk up it was it was super headwind but that climb every time was just as hard
Because I just went faster so I just said you know it doesn’t get easier just you just go faster because you literally just push yourself you go faster so that was an official quote right quote at 19 years old but I was just trying to explain some women hey there’s no
There’s no you know out-of- Body Experience here you you know doesn’t get easier just go faster Greg Lon the greatest American cyclist of all time thank you very much my friend thank you good always good talking with you so if you like this video click on this one I
Think you like that too and subscribe to the channel because we load more Ament content going up windy
26 Comments
Part 1 of my conversation with LeMond is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xq5PQvBFvI and you can see extracts from this chat including his thoughts on Lance Armstrong https://www.youtube.com/@roadmanpodcastclips
LeMond is THE Man.
Thank you
It is amazing how much damage Armstrong did not through his doping but with his ability to destroy others in the cover up. It is causing me to look differently at Lance today. I chalked it up to everyone was cheating so……..now it is more about the ability to attack during the cover up that is more concerning
Greg Lemond. The real thing. 🙏
Great interview. Greg has always been a hero of mine and glad to see he's such a a good human being. All the knowledge he has is also amazing, keep it up
love Greg💖
Always "big respect" for Greg. Great to hear his early history. @Roadman asked like one question…silenced by, and Greg took off painting an amazing story
I remember where I was when Greg won the Tour. Remember it well and could not believe it. I cried.
1:41.00 Greg, the of the Spanish rider was Jêsus Manzano from the Kelme team.
Had no idea there was such a thing as bike racing until I saw LeMond in The Tour De France on the Wild World of Sports (U.S. TV show). I was hooked. A talented American in a European sport expanded my sporting interests. Loved cycling ever since. Greatest American cyclist with no competition for the title.
Greg's training book helped me a lot when I started training and racing in the 80's. Big ups
A huge thank you to both you and Greg LeMond for these interviews. Usually, I struggle staying interested in anything over half an hour on YouTube but I've watched both parts of the interview with him in their entirety. A true legend of the sport and as many have said, all round good guy. Great interviews.
A breath of fresh air on a life that changed cycling forever…
He stood on moral ground and is very comfortable with that resolve….a giant of a man and simply a good human…
A complement to his parents that gave him a rock of moral ground..
A great of the sport of cycling and of the human race.
Enjoy Ur bike…
Regards jim
I did a ride in 2002 called Face of America. From ground zero in NYC to the Pentagon in DC. Greg LeMond, Tyler Hamilton and Nelson Vails all rode with us as well. Three of the nicest cyclists ever! Greg would pose for photos with all the cyclists and talk with us for as long as we wanted, so approachable for all 3 days!
What a big memory! He remember every little episodes
What happened with bob roll i couldnt make that out? -U10
Yes greg got my attention. LA84 right after i got my first bike at 5 was the awakening. As it worked out Greg was on the broadcast. -U10
Greg's background 🤘🏽
The Last Rider
@1:50:20 Thyroxine?
Hey, great early days, recall…
Greg Lemond is the real deal –
Always was, you mentioned a 2nd place at Nevada City as a Junior. I grew up in the hometown (Pacifica California), that Junior- Clark Natwick- who was also a National Cyclocross Champ. He is really terrific guy, well he left the sport in mid 1980s & he went on a ride w/ me & Charlie Holbrook & we clobbered him going up Devils Slide… His brother Don bragged after Holbrook told him that my brother beat Lemond at Nevada City !!! I didn't think it was a big deal. One time thing, 2:13:00 Clark Natwick made great comeback, asked about that Nevada City thing, He just looks down & grins.
No one can take that one from him – Allez Natwick-
Outstanding…was gonna listen to a few minutes….2hrs later …. wanting more….great job
10 years ago, when I was buying a new bike, the first mfg I crossed off the list was Trek, and I'll never buy another one because of the way they treated Greg. I WAS a two-time Trek owner, including a Trek 2000 in 1985.
Interestingly enough Greg could pull one out of his hat when he had too 👏👏, especially the day he got the world championships in the rain in Japan out sprinting Sean Kelly 👏 In retirement you've been an asset to pro cycling.Well played sir.
Such a great interview – bring him back for more! He remains my hero for last 30 years, his book on my work shelf facing me every day. I bought the Lemond Zurich, he brought me over to Trek brand, now I have to sell my Trek fleet (how could I forgive… they should PR this and make proper amends)? Call Hollywood, let's see the big budget film!