Etobicoke Centre Cycling Network Plan meeting – Wednesday February 28, 2024 (35 minutes late start)

Raw, rushed upload, so no corrections have been made (if any errors exist, apologies).
Etobicoke Collegiate Institute Auditorium at 86 Montgomery Road was where this was recorded and took place.

Many are afraid of change, however this kind of change is good, it’s just very hard for them to adjust to it.
One individual attempted to grab the microphone and whip it at the woman, only it was wrapped around/under the table, so it recoiled and hit the floor instead. They should have been kicked out.
Many unrealistic, common tropes were used, and they don’t align with reality (no really).
The tour-de-france remark, *we have full legal use of the road*, it’s the law, and it won’t ever be revoked.
The other trope about emergency vehicles not being able to get through, is motorists just not pulling over to the side. Seen this plenty of times where no infrastructure existed, some even tried to PASS the fire truck (a big no-no).
As for the congestion part:
**VEHICLES** are the source of all the congestion, if say, fifty people didn’t at all drive (each vehicle takes up the space of SIX to NINE bicycles regardless of width), congestion would be greatly reduced. That also decreases if 100 rode instead of driving. Big difference, right there.

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I have every right to freedom of expression, speech, thought, choice and the right to an opinion, just like you. There are no exceptions.

Four there plus two baseball diamonds and the park and the tennis court why don’t you for um putting these bike Lanes in up Transportation there’s going to be you know easily a thousand more people and that’s not being looked at the concern that I have is I want I went

To Michaels today five to see how long it would take driving it took me 8 and 1/2 minutes by bus it took me an hour and 5 minutes that’s just to get Marland to Michaels on the door your transportation is not good you have to

Get that up before you get rid of Ro by all the bicyclist that’s what I want to say thank you Denise I think you sent well shared uh even those the Cy are sensitive to congestion and difficulty moving anything other than hi how’s it going my name is Al

McCrae I uh I live in the area but I don’t own a house so it doesn’t really affect me but I’m just genuinely curious as to what was the rationale behind this um I’m a general contractor I need my vehicle to work I often have to go to

Home Depot and get materials and that’s doubled tripled in time um obviously that cost gets passed on to the homeowner um it gets passed on to my Subs which are then passed on to the homeowner in the end so I’m wondering have you guys actually taken the consideration and time to think about

People that are self-employed and might be charging all these people here that own homes I have plumbers I have H guys none of them want to work in this area anymore and if they do they’re charging a premium so what do you have to say to all these people that are getting charge

Up last thank you I me thank you right thank you for me but Albert I I I I’m glad you raised the point because many of us take the simple lens of well it’s just a personal time but if you dig deeper into it there are economic

Impacts to people that are simply paying workers to sit in traffic uh delivery delivery of material and I mentioned a little bit before there are economic models that we consider congestion as a contributing factor to the place of housing um I I wish I could find an easier way and I

Appreciate you raising the point because it’s part of our minutes that Council needs to think about these things because liability in the city includes many things and that is in to move about with all due respect I think that’s a question for the project manager she’d

Be the one that’d be dealing with that right so what do you have to say to yourself Mr or Mrs uh project manager maybe we could explain how this is qu what was a rationale yeah so again as Katie highlighted in the actual Network plan there are nine points of analysis that

Get to the groups when we actually evaluate each route we look at safety we look at inje and traffic Mobility we look you didn’t do your job so when lock yourself in your rooming and of and before after are just clarify you said there are nine lenses that are looked at Council ask

You to highlight any of them or do they treat so in the cing network plan is where we look at nine points to develop wi groups and we actually um included them both in the 2022 to 2024 report and it will also be included uh Both oh sorry not the framework starts from a point of equal waiting but we’re in the process of considering waiting certain criteria based on the input we’ve receiv from the public and from internal and external stakeholders so it hasn’t been formally proposed certain ones be weeder that’s not one of The point but I think can I make the suggestion unless folks disagree could we resolve as a group that perhaps Council should pay more attention to congestion as one of the nine and the number ofy get the rotations if don’t I don’t if we go through tonight but is there data

Website there are drop down menus where there’s lots of information including the public consultation panels the this very building last April there’s a tab about monitoring and evaluation and like this project as well as many others that we do we commit to monitoring and evaluation plan all that

Data is released publicly on our website and will be sent out to anyone who subscribed to the project as well as shared with the local counselors and councel generally so if you are interested in the L Street Extension project or any of the projects I invite

You to sign up for those emails and you’ll be the first to hear about any of the data andit so if I may make a further suggestion uh I’m a data an itic person uh By Nature uh as much as I am an elected official these are things that

We look at uh before we make decisions if folks have suggestions on certain data pieces that are missing please tell me and I will work I I can assure you I will work with staff to try to bring it out and if I have to go to council to

Get permission to do so I quite happy to commit to do that I can’t promise you think they will let me but I will ask those questions even if they’re T thanks I’m sry I apologize this side this side side can I skip over here up there thank you very much go

Ahead I can hear you but I can speak up if doesn’t work here we go I hear Tes okay yes thank you uh my name is Andrew vanderwal I um live on a a quiet residential street and we heard some comments about how if you live on a quiet residential street and

You have a cycling route that uh encompasses and takes in that street there will just be some cherls or some painted lines but my quiet residential street has had The Misfortune of Being slated for some construction and Sewer work which was deemed by the city to be

A grand opportunity to install a cycle track on our quiet residential street a complete baller protected curve protective 4ot plastic bers warning markers the whole 9 y on our quiet residential street and by the way that means that no one can park on either side of that street anymore all

The 100y old homes that only have spot for one car canot park on on front of the residence anymore once this is implemented infrastru is beginning next month so when we are being told that on chir residential streets you can expect only a few I canest from our experience that that

Is not the case city council actually approved our street to be uh changed to a cycle track on June 15th of 2023 with no consultation and and nothing that all residents who are adly V opposed to this have had absolutely no influence in changing the course of this entirely inappropriate City infrastructure being

Built on the street and moreover when we look at this from the perspective of a cyclist which I am I have cycled over 2,000 km every year to and from downtown TR from the too I am a a commuter cyclist I know the needs of cyclists and

Being in a in a in a in a cycle track a narrow constrained area passing all these drivway the cars backing up that have limited visibility as they try to back up extremely 100 place for cyclist to be so instead of creating a safer environment on such a quiet resal

Actually creating hazards for cyclists and back motorists and [Applause] [Applause] toally can you share where it is can you share where it is I’d like to take a look at it yes I I’m raising this as a cautionary because I am in public but in w streeten Superior Avenue 3et Superior

Avenue and this Cy track is not connected to anything else that is a Cy tracks that take away appliation to what’re discussing tonight app 22 years in the Kings Way and being a business own for the last 11 and the city’s reports on the bur West Village B

Lanes are very Rosy pictures painted of positive impact on local businesses including references to surveys of businesses that describe increased foot traffic sales and so forth but what’s very contrary to that is myself and another business owner pull 59 businesses along the Kingsway and of those 57 were willing to sign documents

Explaining how the impact is negatively impacting their business there’s GPS’s that direct people away from blor street so people are avoiding our businesses you won’t have businesses in the neighborhood to enjoy so I want to understand I would like to see the city staff Supply the relevant details of

Their survey including the text you use who exactly responded because it is a mystery to me how we can PLL in one day and get 59 businesses to say how they’re feeling and how they’re impacted yet you can’t give us data that proves that you’ve actually done your [Applause]

Job yeah thank you for that question so when we engage on all of our projects including the BL West complete streets extension we meet with all interest groups and stakeholders who need public you did not all you listen to so if you’re interested in the specifics of I would invite you to look

At the consultation summary which is on the project website all the meetings and the dates are we encourage you to go [Applause] you guys driven have you done it person get in our shoes have you guys It I appreciate the Viger of the questions I want to make sure we get a response on that volunteer that I will ende to get back questions can be asked where’s that cowardy why isn’t she [Applause] [Applause] here [Applause] thaty stole a microphone microphone quiet please quiet keep it down you’re going to

[Applause] beird except all don’t want go hopefully some loves you bring we not questions we got we got to be fair this is a too Center don’t do this next question please can’t hear you you can hear me now okay so I live a block North of BL Street and a block

West of Seward so I’m very very familiar with the state of BL Street um in that block between Prince Edward and Royal York and so I see those bike Lanes not several times a week and what’s most noteworthy about those bike Lanes is an almost complete absence of

Bicycles so the the other thing and I don’t know if anybody was aware of this or took this into account when making the decisions to put a bike lane there but there happens to be a train that runs underground exact you know perhaps that might be a consideration availability of other

Transit non-car Transit when you’re deciding where to put bike Lanes so my question is to whoever cares to answer it how do we get rid of the [Applause] D Take response take I’m sorry Andrew apies very loud Andre um there’s two parts to that the first is Council absolutely knew that there was a train going to be there because Council knew it was 0.3% of the service users were cyclist they knew that they made the decision so

Um let’s let’s let’s let’s finish the second half so in nine years as being a city council I’ve seen Mike LS come out once he was over in skyro the local counselor LED that initiative Council backed them up the short answer on how to take the bike Lanes out is that you

Have to collect 14 votes out of the 26 who agree to do it it’s not easy to do you got one here I’ll start with that how collect those votes you don’t so I to be respectful my is a public record and she get on that

Road thank you next question up on the balconies the balcon my name name I’m also a War 3 Superior Avenue resident andoun I just want to really thank you for holding this meeting we’re finding it really difficult to get the city to listen to this um as Andrew already told

You we’ve got 3 m of Street where they want to put in divid Bic really all they need to do uh what they’re trying to do is slow down traffic on the streets I said hey my goodness why don’t you lower the darn speed liit and then put in some

Speed tra so you tell me people and solve the real problems thanks thank you I um the best advice I can give you is to continue to engage with elected officials you would start with your local counselor you would Branch out to theal your community council you can spot who we are easily

On the lab and then the broader Council and there if I may offer one piece of advice that is be very deliberate in the communications to try to explain the problem that you wish to have solved that’s much easier than going straight to a solution so I I thank you for that

It’s a question I ask often the city council it’s a question that I ask on BL street is we need to be very deliberate about the things that we do to maintain public confidence and the first question we need to do is Define the is that

We’re trying to solve I don’t think we do that well as a council and the result of that is what we see here tonight so I appreciate the comments thank [Applause] Youor a meeting at Community Council on this topic [Applause] everybody’s a little bance give me a call and we can discuss what the rules are thats thank you I think the rotation is here my name Cody with so far I’ve talked with you know 25,000 residents ofo and hundreds of

Submissions online and videos showing that there’s a clear problem with fire respondents like and police not being able to get by and ambulance is not being able to get by everyone that I T to that are local policemen firemen or drivers say that there’s a significant problem here and that it’s being ignored

And not addressed and yet again when we talk about it with the city again they say there’s no problem here so I just want to know how is that an acceptable answer when there’s thousands of residents that are seeing this happening on a regular basis and it’s just being completely

Ignored and by secondary question is I’m wondering if it’s possible I did email in uh a couple of videos I’m wondering if I could play those so people can see because there’s numerous people in this audience that have sent me videos on these challenges and problems and we are

Just being ignored and neglected entire so so sir if if I may suggest can we play one of them and maybe somebody else can suggest the other just so we not so we play the 24-hour time lapse once [Applause] sow [Applause] [Applause] sow Only [Applause] minutes I I would like I would like to point out that we we do have numerous cameras installed on blur street now because for some reason the city won’t actually do any data collection and when we’ve asked for data numerous times I was even told from people at the last

Meeting that that would have been available immediately and I said okay great what’s your definition of IMM medium they said soon I said okay I’m still waiting for that we’ve been asking for data Adam you say that it’s on the website it’s not there you can say it

All you want but it’s not there we want to see the actual dat we want to see the actual we have we have now and we are collecting data so I would love to see what your data is and see what lines and what matches the data regarding monitoring of

What has just recently been installed your right is not on the website we will be posting something soon what’s your definition of soon what is your definition fors they they did they did highlight the other day they did no they didn’t they did they did I saw I see I see

More you can see on the other so when we do projects like this and On oh that’s at the edge that’s the edge the local firemen are saying that’s not true the local police department are saying that’s not true local because it’s it’s not anybody locally that lives in this area like I I am a cyclist I go out I do my B

Consistently there’s many people that are even part of our organization that are are hardcore cyclists and we feel this way because it’s just it’s just so inappropriate you Know so specific to Emergency Services we work with their data collection team so we don’t work with the individual ambulance driver that you might have a casual conversation with on the street they do all they have the P they’re stuck in traffic do any calculations on our team

We rely on our Emergency Services Partners to provide data there was quite a large about this on other streets where they also contributed to that data reporting from a a account perspective we do release that in you can see when when the number of people the are on the

Street um and on travel times we both release uh summaries of travel times and hour by hour and specifically for emergency response what what is collected by fire services for example themselves being shared with us we just release what they share they take a comparison of what’s

Within 500 me of a corridor say street or Street where a changes made and they compare that data and the response time data to the rest of the city or the rest of the neighborhood and that is their best way of comparing what could have come about from a change versus a global

Change in response this is their data and as I mentioned we’ll be collecting data on westes its uh project in May and when we release that data we’ll also release data from our partners and so if I may round up the question uh again because I can provide you a vertical answer

Because it’s a counselor’s meeting and I can tell you both my experience making decisions on things like BL Street things like speed HS on C Street or a change somewhere else it’s always a question I wish I got better information I think it’s a very good outcome of this

Meeting to come back to say that people are asking for more detailed information and detailed analysis to go into those reports I think that’s accountability to Citizens so unfortunately Cil has been accepting very high level statements like it’s satisfactory or it’s acceptable what that word acceptable means is well you

Know what when budget time comes around we just paid more money for more trucks more people Fireballs to shorten the response window because congestion continues to rise that’s my answer on I don’t find it satisfactory but at least I can you some compx and explanation

10 I would love it and showed them the other video the other video is only 40 seconds but I would love to show that later Everyone was money so my name is Adam um un fortunately we have seen uh the two cyclists in February star very tragic um and as the father I want to promote for my my my child able to have that person of independence with a bike and I noticed Montgomery Street there’s

A plan to have some sort of bike bike routes and I was wondering how the plan is to allow for more bike routs besides schools to promote students to be able to ride a bike we all know there’s a beasty Crisis constru schools schools are speak up please schools are one of theory uh we will provide the list of other inps that are there it’s got gr Stores um secondary schools and Parks community centers so schools are one of them and we have been doing more engagement even at the network plan

Level with our colleagues in the school boards and we bring communs Canada who work with schools and AC planning so we’re talking to them about other ways that we can bring a greater Focus to connectivity and safety around schools uh and talking closely with our colleagues uh in Vis buau and those who

Work on school zone safety plans um seeing what kind of Partnerships we can have specifically related to schools uh and for Montgomery um so at this stage we’re still like there 500 km of candidate groups they were selected based on that higher level this criteria we’re still in the process now of

Confirming that there are some options that could go forward selected monery is one where there are few different options proposed um from anything of to separation if you do it on one side of the street but not both so if montgomer gets selected uh there’s actually a few options that would come

Forward for more detailed engagement with schools uh on the street and residents in the area cuz there’s a few different ways that way could happen Thank all right I’m going to speak Cloud micing your question just just so um I just want to say like I know we were talking about the crosssection of E stre before now I cycle from time to time to go downtown before the only safe East West Route or to really get to downtown

Or anywhere east of Theo was always to go down to the lake and that like the wars the wars B CLS became another option because now again it’s now L and L nothing Norm there’s nothing on Dundas nothing on Eglington nothing on shepher shepher doesn’t even come into it Finch

Is about to get started so I know people are saying that hey driving we need to get east west but there all are multiple East West quarters to get into downtown safely you’re in a car take a Subway I will I will take this I will

Has a view point and it’s important to I will take this I will the subway but sometimes like we know sometimes like I have a friend who lives in an area where buses don’t like up on Jan in that little community area it’s very hard

Because the bus is only half an hour and I just go I just go there we could save more buses but that’s another cost there’s just one time some cost down to just to install the bike L there will be maintenance with the road we have to pay

So much money for the maintenance of the road if we run that’s also a big cost and the TPC has own service for that and my question is is there I see what the process one thing blure does not have a lot of connector Roots is there plans in the

Future to get more easy connec onto the BL bik Lanes so that way more people will come onto it because right [Applause] now question just shows how Overow to say I ask a com contivity is one of the factors in proposing new groups so every time the network is extended ites the value OFW but we have a business okay I have never been able to get a message back or a call back from amley as you

I my opinions but she’s planning on putting bike Lanes on the queen way now the bike Lanes on the queen way all you’re going to do is cause more and more problems we have ambulances prayer departments Police Department running up and down that Queen wa six seven times a

Day going to park L going wherever they have to go but they’re running fast now she’s proposed to put B Lanes on there all you’re going to do is affect the businesses a lot of businesses are struggling now you guys come up with all this garbage okay right after the

Pandemic right after the pandemic when we were shut down by you guys okay so you had enough time to do what sit down and say how can we make some of these people go out of business because that’s what you’re doing one two the safety okay official WEA all right I’ll show to

You don’t worry about it I’ll catch you guys later now all you’re going to end up doing is having a lot more accidents a lot more you talk about safety you say safety what do you mean by safety you’re leaving it up to the driver to be safe

We are safe have you seen some of the bikers that are out on the roads today by the Lord they don’t have wi nothing on the queen way they do what they call I like to say the tour the font they take up a whole Lane personally I’d like to run them

Over to get out of my way you put these bike Lanes in it’s going to take you at least another 20 minutes to get home and to work easy I’m on the road you said most people turn around and drive two days a week I’m on the road 6 days a

Week I’m in sales I’m outside I go see clients all over trial Concord Hamilton Burlington you guys are like trying to make this this city into one of the worst cities ever to live in yeah so if that’s the case Cambodia cuz that’s where all the

Bik lanes are they don’t have bike L they have bikes okay we’re getting tired of paying all these taxes for stupid projects like this St $1.8 billion in the hole you raise your property taxes by 99.5% and now you’re putting this garbage on us yeah what’s going on with

The city I thought politicians had but they don’t it’s all about your agendas trust me Amber Morley and her agenda she just put two what do you call them electric charging stations in front of our business that’s another useless piece of garbage even even the T even the guys

Installing it say it’s a waste of money anyways show the guys 15 second video I’ll respond to to thank you politicians should be blasted and there is no excuse for some of the decisions that come out here I don’t but they they have come this way um I would I would

Say more people need to express these opinions as much as they can we’re here AR we you are and you’re doing a great job else you’ve got to convert those votes at Council to see it this way bring them here so many times I feel like things change when you cross

The humble River and you come into a turble C it just feels like the amount never Worked pleas please don’t lose your identity in this mix of the mega City and keep up your voice thank you for that uh my name is cathine Pira I work I work no I don’t work I sou of Flor of prin uh the first thing I want to say is

Toronto is not Amsterdam Toronto will never be Amsterdam many b as you want but this city is not is not asate I as far as corresponding and getting replies back I wrote to the mayor I wrote to Amber and I wrote to Barb trans Transportation um I got nothing of

Course from the mayor I got I can I’m not sure I got anything from Amber I got a very cut and paste reply from Transportation I had six questions they answered two of them I put my name down for to get responses on um what’s happening there

Was a link where you could put your email in I had nothing in three mon nothing I know every single firefighter at 4:31 which she’s on there are 20 of them there I know every one of them I know them by name okay and I can tell you nobody has

Talked to them about what’s going on with the fire angs I ask them what are they doing to when they’re delayed first are are you being yes we’re being delayed we often yes as youve heard we have to go on the side street what do you do because we spoke

About response times what do you do about delay we have to report in to the platoon chief that when because they check on they know where the call is where is the fire they they they have so they have to report it and they said delayed in traffic this is new this is

Not something that happened before much as I don’t like snow I wish we would have had a big snow storm this winter to see what the effect would have been how they would have been able to plow those streets where they would have put the snow because I can’t even begin

To imagine where they that snow and how pars will been able to go up and down floor Street and police cars and ambulances and Firefox because it would not happen and I I know the city this week was talking about raising the fines for I think it’s $450 for cars blocking intersections

Well we could pay off the city debt if they pass that fine and send some police officers out to glor St because Prince Edward and Flor is blocked constantly constantly and I sent pictures with my emails pictures of block no response people stuck in CS and I’m I came here

Tonight fully believing nothing is going to change and as some speakers said earlier it became very clear when we started talking about 2025 to 2027 this is going to keep going and as you said you’re only one vote in 25 or 26 thank you thank I can assure you there’s a piece

In there to take away and Christine if you can make sure that we note this that when we ask for emergency services information we will ask for local information back from the actual fol I think that’s very helpful and I appreciate the comment hello Kathy good job and sure cookies are where it’s

At Manny hi are you um I’m Manny I live in the neighborhood unfortunately I work at the fire hall more [Applause] 31 brought and now part of this let’s stop it right there um okay so you consulted with the fire department the only time we knew what you were doing

Was the day we got that lovely little flyer that showed up and said like on door y yes so we sat there and looked at this nonsense and we thought how’s this going tole Us boy did we find out we got our first call Kipling andlor we pulled up pulled out of the

Hall turned left got to the lights we found cars we tried to turn left and we saw some more cards and then we looked further up yonder and all there was was cars which was once a very open pop for us Vehicles can’t turn off if we’ve got

An island people can’t go to the right because unfortunately there’s parking and these weird little white sticks up in the air and then we added all these little white Coes for pedestrian safety but no we don’t give cars a place to turn for us now so now we’re sitting in traffic

Turned off our Sirens occasionally release our horns and we sit and we wait calmly CU we’re poite we’re Canadians so we sit there very calmly and we wait and then we turn the siren back on and we now going to head on traffic cuz as a firefighter you

Drive on your personal license and that’s something we all want to do drive into head on traffic hope that the other person is aware of us that they stop so that we could try to weave our way back in between the islands and then we gradually make it up

Towards Kipling Hallelujah open lanes again and they’re dead oh yeah and there’s nobody there but here’s the whole thing though is that there was no consultation amongst us you know there was nothing said to us that we’re going to cause this Mayhem for you we now head

Out of the hall we have a quick look off door and now we take the fire truck lights and sirens and we go up Prince Edward Drive nice residential street and then we turn left on King George because you know what let’s cause a little Mayhem on George cuz we can we’ve got

The lights and sirens and and now we’ve got people walking their kids to school the nannies so now we’re driving at 1.2 km an hour no Sirens cuz we don’t want to disrupt everybody and again we’d like to thank you guys for submitting this because it made it such a wonderful

Thing for all of us so instead of inconveniency a couple bicyclists making them go Prince Edward across King George Let’s inconvenience a fire let’s incom me is a vehicle that weighs a couple of tons running at full kilter and requiring them to use residential side streets because that Maks all the s of

The you guys in this thought process like logically you inconvenience a bicyclist where you your inconvenience a fire truck a police car ambulance you’re inconvenience in us and all of a sudden I impact everybody here you ineni 911 these people call 911 thinking my God the firec Park’s going to be there

In 3 minutes what metric 3 minutes Imperial 3 minutes how do we measure this nowadays Toronto 3 minutes Toronto 3 minutes that’s right so now we are part of the congestion problem which was never the case Mr holl you know your dad and you wonderful people you guys were wonderful toal

People can we can we sort of maybe fix these other people maybe get them to understand that there’s things that make sense and things that do not make sense so more for the common good for the greater amount of people not good for a small couple [Applause] Sleep that is very well brought to a point of the key political question and this is what council decides the essence of the streets this wide how do you divide it up Council made a choice to divided up the way that you see before you I think

A lot of people in this room through just our own life experiences know that the priority was given to an area that is not used as much as it would be reflected in the way the street is divided up exactly example of that is the fire truck so so back to the the

Nine categories that we mentioned earlier and that beginning of that discussion about should they be treated all equal or should they weigh more or less I think this is the makings of some public policy and it’s really important that we’re hearing this from the public so this has been noted and you don’t

Have to answer this today but what I would really like to know from a professional that is living through this of what are the hard questions that I need to ask as a counselor so that I’m doing my due diligence to make sure I’m making a smart decision you don’t have

To answer it on the microphone you don’t even have to answer it but but but my point is is there’s there’s tough questions to answer people to ask people like you that know the answers counsel holiday the hard question is reality reality states that we are large vehicle

Probably at a quick PA to get to where we need to be we don’t have 911 for provol it’s not like you call 311 and you call call Emergency Services you think that when you call you will get the response that you require if I’m stuck in traffic maybe causing man maybe

Causing an accident and our way pushing through traffic people panic when they Panic on BL street now where did they go nowhere car a so I told my guys turn the sir off because we may cause an issue that we may not be able to hand at so don’t put

In a position fail and that’s problem put people position don’t you So no problem thank you I’m John I live on thank you very much for setting this up you may have seen a couple of my emails uh at the time I didn’t know which way you were kind of voting on this so they may have come across a b hot

Stop uh thank you for being the only C voice in the city um so there’s been a lot of venting right A lot of people feeling like they need to get stuff off the chest I could do that I could sit here and talk about the insane dogmatic uh undertone of all the

Decisions that are being made I can talk about the insane waste of money even you know this idea that we’re just going to paint bik fles onto the city city streets what a ridiculous waste of money that about all of these things however I’m going to ask a pointed question

Because I need to if I could come out of here with one thing it would be to get the rationale between behind all of the no right hand turns on a red right is that like I need the answer to that because I’m sitting there 9:00 at night

On that ridiculous spider web you know intersection at six points which whoever designed that to be well any of the other newly created uh B plane areas where now there’s no right hand turns on reds I need the answer to that because the only thing I

Can think of is that the bikes who constantly whip through the red lights there you guys acknowledge that the bikers are that irresponsible and they always run through the red lights so we need to protect them and allow them to to do their thing that’s the

Only thing that I can come up with so I’m hoping you give all of your incredible knowledge and and exactly what the logic behind that is I’m not sure you’ll be satisfied no I probably won’t um so there’s three things there’s policy there’s cont data some situations policy Royal yor for example they

Haven’t yet been installed but turn q boxes for people cycling who are going from one of the streets either Royal York to bour or B to Royal York need to wait in the intersection and they would be in direct conflict with a right turning vehicle on red so that’s an

Example of policy most of the other ones are about a combination of context and data so we look at all the collisions contacts and data so the context are things like sight lines if the intersection comes at at an odd angle or an approaching vehicle can’t appropriately see a right turn a

Pedestrian a right turn the other input is a piece of data such as collisions at that intersection that may have been caused by a right turn on red so we put all of these things Together every single one of those right turns on we also vet them through our technical Partners like TTC and through traffic models to make sure that all of the Consider know I just want to say one thing around the SES again back to that ridiculous spider web Network 6. the the sight lines are like a mile long you can see like it it it’s just insane you’re sitting there at 10:00 at night there isn’t one bike that has come

Along in the last 5 hours there AR there aren’t even any cars there might be you know Skip the dishes guy on a motorized scoter but you’re sitting there at a red light and all you can think of is how crazy the people who are making these decisions to see

Okay I’m a civil engineer my name is George I live south of tracks so I Attended against removing Lanes so if they do this on buron Thorp with all the highway traffic coming off Highway 27 you got six Lanes probably on that freaking Bridge right then you want to put it down to to two LAN you better not do that you better not do it on blure

Either and once upon a time I lived in Del and I had a 19 month contract there and I had two bikes one bike to go to work and a 10speed for the weekend and there was about a th000 bikes at the train station okay now um I used to

Drive my daughter to the grocery store where she had a little summer job and I had to go on Lor across the bridge up to Jane turn left and go up to the junction to the potato grocery store she never wanted to wake up on time either so any

Uh she lives in New York City now okay fine 23 years old U but anyways my point is I hate this idea that you took away a lane like that’s nuts lot of stuff is nuts in this city I don’t want to now the traffic M uh what’s a major arterial how

Many cars we it’s 20,000 20,000 I teach a George Brown College and Humber College and I I anyways what about a major Street what’s the traffic the count cars there has some this was the way the city was planned now you going to plant it into

To bite I’m I’m I’m a bike biker I use the Humber River I go down to lesli spit if I feel like it and that’s a long way from here and uh on the the good weather 5 months of the year who the hell wants

To ride a bik to to OPG downtown where I used to work Once Upon a Time so anyway that’s a lot of comment but don’t take away Lanes on four lane roads sure everyone that that is the highest bar and the first thing that I look at when I see these proposals again

I’m I’m talking personally not necessarily about what the advice that comes toward the public service is but as far as I’m concerned that is the beginning point of an issue I’ll go a little bit further to say this as a member of council my experience is being

Very similar to my colleagues around the city especially in the suburbs we get a lot of calls about traffic in neighborhood in on calm quiet residential streets it’s not lost on me and I hope it’s not lost on them that when you disrupt your route you cause traffic infiltration and a great example

Of this uh would be Edington AV where they’re doing construction I can assure you if you live near there you know there’s an uptick in traffic on all of the parallel routs and I’m feel quite certain although it’s out of the ward and I don’t get those calls that it’s

Happening here yeah and it’s quite simply because people are fing the arterial to take different routes look I got ways so does everybody else but what that does is it begins to run against the very complaints that we are already getting from the neighborhood so it doesn’t square up

This is a point of concern and I would invite everyone in this room whether you’re in this Ward or wherever you are to continue to press those issues because conventional wisdom says that when you have a problem on a quiet street cut through traffic so on the

First question you asked is what’s wrong with the arterial why aren’t people choosing that and these are the main points of concerns that I have when really busy streets that are arterials are restricted with respect to their capacity and that is my political answer to you I wish more counselors took that

Approach thank you um thanks for hosting this being counselor uh my name is John I live by Roy AR in Eglington uh I’m a cyclist I use the Eglington Trail it’s a dedicated bicycle trail uh it’s a great thing uh wish there was more of them uh my

Question tonight is uh just logically I I use Westway a lot and you talked about uh congestion people are finding the other streets are congested they’re using Westway a lot it’s a four lane uh Road and there I saw that on your list purely from a logical perspective and U

I encourage you to look at the traffic the bicycle traffic I live in the area I use Westway all the time the number of bikes I’ve seen on Westway I Can Count On One Hand In the period of the year um now it’s busy now because people don’t

Want to use egton they get CED up on the 401 West way the busy streets four lanes if you take away 50% of the pavement and give it to less than 1% of the people using it I’d like to understand the logic there just purely from a simple logic perspective how does

How how on Earth does that make sense from a logical perspective and forget about your slides forget about your studies forget about get out of your cubicle so the city hall go to Westway and look at the traffic and tell me how this makes Sense all right the St the staff have indicated to me that there isn’t a develop proposal on the west way but I’m glad you raised it um I know we’ve talked a lot about BL but this meeting is also about things like that please please please spread the word to

Your have them give me feedback about this I used Westway I’m probably one of those cars from time to time I’m sure my wife was on it driving my son to hockey and I I get it it’s a great Street and I do understand the ratio of bikes but I

Need people to come back and raise concerns or or give us information about maybe what could work if it’s not taking away all of that is valuable and it’s stuff I want to channel to the people that plan the projects and design and so thank you for making a comment I can’t

See you but I Really okay my name is da I live in W 3 uh first thing when you talk about blur Street is way more people use the transit than ever go on the car so let’s just keep that in mind when we’re talking about the traffic here uh

Traffic is bad I know it from a very personal way because I work for Canada post I’m a letter carrier I pick up mail at 5:00 in the afternoon at BL and High Park and then try and get back to the West Mall there is no fast way and it’s

Gotten wor since theend nothing to do with bicycles I can’t move fast on a net dast buram Thorp I can’t go down Park go down and get on the Lake Shore and not to The Gardener fast anymore there’s way too much traffic and it’s about to get worse

We’re about to do Cloverdale Mall uh Prince not Prince Edward and King’s Way is abouted to be done we don’t have the room for all we’re talking about with cars we have to think of another way maybe the bler bike ples aren’t being used right now but it’s at least an idea

We’re trying they’re trying people don’t like that I do have one last thing with this as well they mentioned a little earlier they mentioned a little earlier about schools the Toronto District School Board has a specific policy to try and get children to bicycle and walk

To school a bike plane like bler like the one they’re talking on Montgomery will get our most vulnerable citizens which are children to school better so deliver the letters on your bike excuse me I’m listen to you listen to me Deliver the letters on your bike park

Your van and ride a bike pal when you deliver the mail walk walk 5 days a week drive along lore as a professional driver 5 in the afternoon take a bik ride a bike you lazy bugger take a bik you’re lazy bugger ride a bike actually I drive a 5 [Applause] Truck we have new soltions I look at how is now taking longer to building to train to Vancouver d shut down post who uses it not be perfect it’s something and I F in Manhattan heard people that are complaining at me I tell me how a tobaco

Is more congested in Manhattan that has a lot of bike planes and the taxi industry in New York has brought up public documents stating that they support the bike Lanes Through Time what’s your question don’t what’s your question please respect a different opinion opinion but where’s the Question and the point is well taken in a gr City there is rising demand for this type of infrastructure maybe there are a couple of good ideas I mean there’s one there’s one that’s being talked about which is through the hydro fields of from Mark all the way down to the sub

Solution I’d like to take it I’d like to find people that support [Applause] that thank you my name is Eric Hopkins I’m to by um one quick note I get into this but I did see the beginnings of bike infrastructure going on lington uh

Further east uh up by um where are we uh the other side of so it looks like there’s more bike infrastructure coming it’s a very narrow area there um I don’t know that’s part4 bring that up up please closer to the mic okay sorry there we go okay the things I want

To ask about though are how do we fix this so how do we fix the consultation process that is focused on our use of bicycles and not the consequences of bike lenses like it the unintended consequences are why we’re here tonight you’re taking away Lanes okay for bikes

But where in your study does it talk about what you’re doing to cars what you doing your arterial roads that were designed for cars that seems to be completely missing in your discussion talking about well we can put a bike plane like this or a bikee plane like that every option

What’s it doing to be the traffic to the congestion of the city like how do we change the consultation process so we’re engaged you hear the voices of these people and not just the voices you’re talk when you talked about CO2 where are you CO2 study does it say about congestion of

Cars and increased congestion like where’s the balance in the reporting the consultation needs to be better needs to engage people it needs to have science and not people waiting Flags so we got to fix this all us fix I want to make these not that I

Think I’m hearing it over and over again that the consideration of congestion means to factor in with higher prominence in how Council weighs these things out you know often they’re bued in the report there’s a stat there’s a stat somewhere in the blur report it talks about delay but it’s it’s down on

The list of the things that my colleagues need be looking at I I can’t tell you what’s in their head but I can tell you it’s the stat that I go to so I I appreciate the comment I think these are very constructive and hopefully we can shape some public policy based on

This uh up upstairs please and I’m just going to make a note folks if we can begin to shut the cues down we’ve got to be under the room in about 20 minutes I’ll stick around a little bit here but uh I do do appreciate come some thank you uh

Holiday City staff attending this evening I’d like to make a point that I came up about a half hour late because of the traffic on street number two when I did arve here I did not see a whole line of bicycles outside in fact I did not see a single bicycle uh

Outside number three if you look up here I’m wearing a bright yellow jacket this is my biking jacket I bike in the city my fellow cyclists wear black all night long they are invisible they go through stop signs they go through red lights they kick vehicles and I’m sure it’s a two-way

Streak between drivers and cyclists they’re not friendly to each other how can we see these Cy if they refuse to OB and and refuse to put lights on their bicycles wear helmets and uh wear bright colored clo your map scares me I at your map street is a deal dund is next you’re

You’re targeting Eglington which east west uh artery can we have for vehicles now the gentleman mentioned the right turn on red every single intersection is no right turn on red it took me 45 minutes one morning to get from rort to make the right hand turn at sou hway to go to the

Garden Expressway and I had one bicycle go by me at 930 in the morning that’s ridiculous so I ask you and everybody this many times what is the logic of this thinking and then my final point is for the gentleman that was talking about was very proy and I and I can understand

That we should listen to all these points of view but what mother wants to have their six seven eighty old child ride their bike to school they’re concerned about safety so they drive them to school it’s not going to change no matter what the cycling Lobby says you’re not going parents dispatch their

Children to go to school on their bicycles or perhaps even walk is that King George here which is one significant block North of L runs between W or and Prince Edward and Beyond has turned into a highway because people will not drive on board Street I

Am guilty of that I drive on here it’s a highway with stop signs so you quickly to stop what do we do consume gasoline and make greenhouse gases when we want to reduce those so I think your bike Lanes have been counter productive in virtually every single aspect of your objectives

Than hi hi my name is Kayla dusa I live on Court Drive so I’m right at blour between blure and the Kings Way my street was a nowhere Street nobody ever used it 8:00 in the morning traffic is now backed up trying to turn on to blor

Street almost the entire block I just wanted to make a couple of points about safety the reason bike lanes are there is for the safety of bicyclists I’d like to tell you that when I’m on BL Street going west and I need to make a right

Turn on to any of those side streets I’m terrified I’m going to hit a bike because I cannot see the bikes with the parked cars that’s my first point my second point I had to go to te bank on Monday I parked my car coincidentally right on the white

Line I didn’t mean to I took pictures of it one of my tires is touching the white line on the passenger side my car doesn’t fit my car stuck out on the other side if I open my door I have to be careful I’m not going to kill myself

Or or t-bo somebody else so the bike Lanes don’t fit my car imagine a truck my other point is I’m not sure if you’re aware this councel holiday I discovered this because I’m an avid Walker I walk every day and I was walking along blur Street there used to be TTC stops

Between old mil and Prince Edward my 97-year-old mother used to take the bus they removed the bus stops there are no more bus stops between Old Mill and Prince Edward Now They removed them for the flight Lanes somebody to walk who’s not a walker who’s got a disability who’s got an issue yeah I know nice so the last point I just wanted to make was we were invited to a meeting earlier or later last year to listen to the deal that had already been struck I don’t remember

Ever being invited to a meeting to talk about the implementation of the bik ls or what they should look like I’m not suppos to BOS bik ways and how the cars are being forced to park on B Street at Great Peril to the cars the bikers and

Everybody else I really that’s what I Have I just want to see if we get some responses I’m sorry I can’t make a comment on the meetings because they weren’t in this board but I wondered if there was any technical answers regarding some of those pieces that parking or so on might

Be yeah sure yeah so TTC yes thank you so uh TTC we work closely with our partners in TTC they make decisions about where the stops go and so we coordinate with them on the design if they’re trying to uh remove the number of stops so that the buses that do run

Run more quickly that’s something Toc own guidelines which also go to council uh there’s a balance to be struck between serving every anding every you know every kilom because if you stop every block then you can meet every house but if you stop every block then your bus takes forever so they have

Guidelines that uh set that decision making and on a project like this they take opportunities to relocate stops or remove Stu uh on the parking question so that’s a question about the design of the parking spes particularly in Kingsway we’ve heard your feedback before the the um parking lanes are of a

Standard width similar to how they are in other locations on blure and in the city as are the vehicle Lanes we have heard this feedback and we’re taking it seriously so we’re going to look at make uh at making adjustments to give uh people parking more room and more room

To the uh vehicle LAN but uh when you open your car door you’re not as close to the movie just to that point I don’t know how you can make more room you taking away a lane there’s not enough room on the parking the designated parking spot for my car and then there’s

There’s uh cement cement things so I don’t know how you can make more room okay can I please I’ve been waiting please can I I have we’re we’re coming there I I you know I I think we can go right till the end if I have everyone’s agreement that they’ll efficiently leave

The room at nine so that I don’t get in trouble and the school board doesn’t get in trouble but let’s go to the end I don’t think we’re going to make it to everybody in the line I’ll do my best to talk to you oneon-one and with that

Please go ahead hi my name is Anita um I’m a working mother I’ve got two daughters in the public school system and I saw that one of the criteria was Equity it was highlighted before and I guess I have a question I haven’t really heard anyone speak on behalf of the the

Young families which we have many many in this neighborhood and and the working parents so my commute daily has now gone it’s 15 minutes more just on that little stretch of BL 15 minutes back 30 minutes a day I’ve been called to work downtown 2 and 1 half hours for a working mother

Now spending idling in her car the rest in the evenings I’ve got kids at the dance studio Sports as do many other parents we are now stuck on blur it is not practical to bring kids on bikes I wear suits and skirts to work I cannot bike to

Work when we talk about equity where are we thinking about the hardworking families that pay the taxes in this [Applause] country I’ll provide a political answer but I’m going to ask staff just to articulate how the equity legs works just so we’re clear on it it’s not what

You were talking about but at Poli that’s Ted information and I’ll I’ll give you some contacts from my perspective um so for the 2022 to 24 program the equity analysis is specific to what are called neighborhood Improvement areas uh these are parts of the city that the Social Development Finance Administration division

Identified when that analysis is used it’s to identify areas to receive more attention from a transportation perspective it doesn’t include the design of a Bikeway so it it doesn’t point to a street and say this is an equity deserving area they must have a back here but this is an equity

Deserving area we need to understand more about what is going to make a positive difference for the people in that area so to give a a local context uh some of the neighborhood Improvement areas here forgive me if I don’t get all the names right the Islington Center

Which would continue through the mayal area um Willow Ridge which would be at the top of Martin grad near the 427 interchange uh and up north of The West Wing towards Dixon Road and so the idea is is to prioritize all the Quee of things uh to think about prioritizing to

Those parts of the city with respect to Investments a little bit more of the Working Families and the flight of people trying to get around the city this is the essence of the boarding questions you know who uh who are we trying to make life easier for um a

Great parallel example to this something that I thought at Council over and over again is Council has very deliberate about removing the requirements for Builders to build parking spots they’ve used this idea that somehow it’ll make housing cheaper but my response back and I’ve done this on camera and challenged

You know the policy makers on this is you know what working parent after working in for a long day needs to then try to figure out where they’re going to stuff their car at 9: you know try to make it home so you know you have to recognize

That people live in different circles some people live in the city and they live in a small area that they can walk short distance that’s great for them right and that’s their life I live in a circle that’s about 25 km I’m here in a

Tobico I might be working in a toac I might be downtown and I might be in Bron all in the same day because you know I got a kid that plays hockey and kids that do sports right uh and some people like you know my cousin lives in a 500 k

R he Liv very north of the city but there’s a lack of recognition that people live different ways and you know sometimes not everybody goes into the city to work they go the other way into theal five and that’s that’s the reality on the edge of the to right we’re

Ubiquitous with the surroundings and this is the essence of the political decisions and the struggle and flight over congestion I think we’re ranked number three according to Tom in the world so thank you for raising the point and it’s a valid point because I think Council should just speak about everyday

People around the city hi thank you very much counselor and thank you very much City staff for coming here sorry I’m not a great public speaker this going be real awkward um I wanted to ask a question about the 25 to 27 uh lanes for consideration um I

Wanted to ask in the context of connectivity so I suspect that this may be a Becky or a ktie question um there was a one of the areas for consideration was Kipling from Lake Shore to blure and then Kipling from edlington to Finch which is a great Highway opportunity for

Cycling I’m all in favor of expanding the network but the area from blur to Eglington is currently not considered on KL uh it was uh the it’s considered on toico Greenway or or Martin Grove the challenge with the greenway is you have to cross burnhamthorp wrath bur and Princess Mar which presumably means

You’re going to put a neighborhood Crossing in there and interfere with all the cars you also have to get up the north side of Echo Valley which is very Ste so I’m wondering why Kipling from blure to Edington wasn’t considered uh when that could create like a beautiful

Straight highway all the way from Finch down to the lak shore and connect a ton of neighborhoods it can connect uh re scale to a too Center it connect uh Hummer College to uh to to a to Center etc etc and so I’m wondering if you

Might to speak a little bit about that one and the logic behind not including uhing from FL also the street is in dire of traffic a quick response that piece was not selected for this candidate largely because of the network coverage category which trying to get more attention to

Areas that didn’t have another option it’s not right next to it but I think I’m not at the map I think Martin bro might have been identified as being close enough proximity that in this next near term it was not possible to include as many roots next to ones that are

Currently existing when a lot of the city don’t have anything close at all thank you I think just a warning we’ve got seven minutes hard stop please go ahead question yes I’m wondering about the influence of developers and their development on this on these vins because I noticed on this slide that

This wasn’t approved until two uh 2022 and yet way back in 2020 Council approved developments like the huge triel development that’s going in um with a dramatic reduction in the number of hard par spaces and a huge increase in the number of bicycle spaces now that’s really to the

Developer Advantage because if you don’t have to dig down especially when a hydrology report says that the water table is high if you don’t have to use the technology and build those extra 200 or more perking spots it’s really to your advantage so what happened there are the developers did they have comment

On this were they consulted how did they know to reduce the number of cars and increase the number of of bike spot I’ll give you a really short answer um about a year and a half or a quarter ago Council turn the minimum parking requirement by developers to zero that’s

The reality it doesn’t include accessible spaces and visitor spaces for example um if anyone remembers G Burgers was the red cabin Burgers by ticking subway station is a tower going up there they essentially have spaces they have a few but you know it is on top of a

Subway station but this is part of the struggle and part of the answer I gave a little while ago about the reality of the toal suburbs on the edge of the f is there’s this forever pressure of reducing the number of parking spaces presumably because people will bike great if they do

But Council took a very very strong move and I didn’t support it I can tell you that but uh you know the outfall is is people end up parking on the street it creates all sorts of pressure so I wouldn’t say that uh developers influence these plans in that way just

Because council’s thinking about the but they may have influenced the council to pass what you just talked about zero paring spaces oh well uh the the I you know I think there’s a broader policy discussion and it’s it’s probably not for tonight and I have some strong

Views on it um but it is what it is and I I wouldn’t draw that connection between the B thank you I think I’ve got one or two more please go ahead I will make this is much shorter than it was started as counselor I do not live in your writing

I live in the too and have for almost 40 years I am here as are many of the other who don’t live in your writing because we support the fact that we know that you were against this I think that after tonight depending on what you can show

You’ve explained your 1 in 24 well this will mean nothing as a result and what’s wrong with that is the passion in this room who did elect you who elected those of our your colleagues who aren’t thinking and to the city staff you do your best

It’s a pat answer you got the policy people who are getting it from the elected and you have to do what you’re doing we’re not blaming you we’re frustrated by the fact that this is what happens might I suggest this is so passionate is there a chance that we

Could do an actual vote right across every single board to say are you for or against bike planes in your boarded the passion both sides of it yes we only had three people in here who were passionate on the other side but the passion on all sides will be

Seen please ensure that you try and make that Happen for tonight because we’ be here all night to argue some of those issues but you know what they are because they’re in the newspaper and it’s when the population of the city is so far offside and council is so far offside on particular issues they frustrate me so

Much and please continue to speak out against them that is the only way to turn the tide thank you for that I think we’ve got one more up on the balcony it an even round up there okay uh my name is Bor I live in Martin wood area that’s blue Street West

And there is already a plan to build 10 new new brand new buildings let’s say around every of them 15 Flo uh that’s about 200 people per time 10 that’s 2,000 new people and who knows how manys and then at the same time you know with that plan they’re running this plan to

Shrink blue to one lane one Lane West East one Lane East West so where is the the common sense of of that one I I I don’t get also during their development they kep to block one lane so when they shrink blue to one and one which lane

They going to B you know what what they building and that takes years yes it does sure i’ say a couple of things I familiar with the location there’s a lot of activity happening in Markland area it is it is with great difficulty that they close that one street that one lane

On bre street because it is a very very busy road it’s commuters that go through that I know I deal with the school often what I would say is the following I have great concerns with any proposal to reduce the capacity of that artery and I’m glad you raised it and secondly you

Have an excellent residence Association in that area that I am quite certainly will be involved in the conversation and I would urge you to support them in this because I think they’ll be making the same uh concerns and questions raised because we know when our twoo roads fail

To perform to the level is needed to move the traffic through the traffic moves around on the side streets and I think that will raise great concerns for the people that live that commity and I expect I’ll be having those conversations with them um so with that

I I I can’t take any more questions I would love I I do this for hour but I do have to close up the room to uh to with our so I’m going to stick around I’ll say thank you to everybody tonight your passion say