Dear Bike Industry: We Don’t Want Hookless Rims | The NERO Show Ep. 72

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00:00 intro
00:25 Hookless Crisis Point
16:08 Opening Weekend Mistakes
26:48 Banned For Impersonating a Rider
35:03 Predicting TCR Launch Content
48:02 Sub Q’s : Descending Training
56:00 Sub Q’s: Pie In The Sky Tech

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STRAVA: https://www.strava.com/athletes/186450
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Welcome to episode 72 of the Nero show in today’s episode we’ve got another hookless tire blowout what are the UCI going to do about it UAE tour and the opening weekend in Belgium lots of talking points we CH about the pending giant TCR release we’ve got mechanics impersonating Riders and getting banned

And P in the sky Bike Tech what would really get us excited all right let’s get into it all right yes shill coil what you what do you what do you got for me what conspiracy theories tin fat Tino I can’t even talk I’m so I’m so in the conspiracy world

All right what’s what’s going on the hookless cabal back at it again with a blowout oh out 2024 the year of the rim blowout we’re on for one did you see this Chris I did UAE tour Thomas again anytime you crash at the uee tour you’re

Going at least 55 cuz you’re on hot mix in the middle mid of the desert with a 60k an hour tailwind and when your hookless tire blows off the rim because the tire is too narrow that is a nasty spill so this this what happened here so

He’s he’s on the uh Ora running is nice zip 353 hookless rims what’s happened is it’s come out is ties are too narrow for the updated standard of the hookless means there’s not enough grab from the tire to the rim and it’s it’s blown off so initially it

Came out and people going oh did he hit something what’s happened here um the team came out and said no it’s all within spec and then people all some of the journalists did some digging and and it’s coming his heaps of articles on this essentially with the

His rims the 353 that have a 25 mm internal width they need to use according to the etto and ISO standards at least a 29 mm Tire to be safe now because he’s racing on hot mix in the middle of the desert at 60k an hour he doesn’t want to run 30 32

Mil tires so the team put 28s on that is not safe and the tires have basically just they’ve blown off the rim how many times have we talked about hookless already on the show it’s it’s kind of like so many years on and it’s still they’re blowing off now this was

Quite a blatant one because uh high-profile crash early part of the season a lots of people were throwing their thoughts in even the the Riders Union Adam Hansen runs it he was tweeting saying we’re not happy with Road hookless came out black and white said it so there’s been a lot of

Commentary going back and forth about the place for hookless in the prop pellaton I don’t want to spend too much time going back and forth on it I think we’ve been pretty clear I mean I’m pretty clear that I I kind of want to look a few levels above it because

There’s a lot of there’s a lot of things at play here firstly there’s a lot of tech going on in these well so he’s on he’s on a very wide zip 353 with hookless rims he’s also got the tire liner in there so the foam thing there’s a lot of and the sealant

In there you’re kind of going geez there’s a lot of new tech in that wheel I I just just that from a safety point of view is is is just a concern overall just I mean does the tire does the does the foam insert impact the way

That the hookless tire grips the rim does that have a has that been tested but isn’t the biggest issue here that if the pro teams can’t work this stuff out what bloody hope does the normal everyday punter have like it’s there a full-time job of every single person

Involved in this to get this stuff right and they know the consequences of it it’s not like they’re just suddenly deciding one day to the next I will just slap this tire on that tire on every decision is made with performance in mind and safety in mind you would have

Thought so if they’re still if they’re stuffing this up like that’s this is almost for me a bit of the final nail in the coffin oh 100% And so the problem is I struggle with this one a little bit because I’m of the opinion that the

Stuff for the pros should be for the pros so for example I was against the Banning of the aerot tuck because it’s a bad look for the general public but it’s Pro Racing they should be able to do it same with the turned in levers as well I

Mean yes it’s kind of dangerous but they’re Pros I I’m of the opinion we should let the pros do pro things and not be like well let’s ban that because if some punter does it it’s a bad look so in this case part of me says well we

Should the pros should just ride the best equipment that they want to use and nor worry about whether that’s safe for the consumer but that doesn’t appear to be from what I’ve seen with the UCI apply their rules they’re generally applying it from not just what’s going

To be safe for the pros but how is that going to carry over and a lot of their rules so I’d be surprised if they don’t have action on this and that I think is where I kind of want to take this because going into the details of what

We think of hookless rims like you said in the past we’ve done that I actually this week went back and listened to our chat we had with Peak talk go I will L link that below the it’s about 14 minutes he talks about hookless rims

Just go listen to that that is all you need to hear uh he does it again I think um on his own show when he had Dan bigum on uh again really that’s all you need to know about why hookless rims even exist in the first place and the the issues

Around them just the engineering ISS I’m not going to go and pretend about all that stuff yeah I’m so close to doubling down on it all but we don’t even want hookless no one wants hookless fck with hookless but the problem this is the problem zip are all in on hookless kex

Giant they’re all in on hookless what the hell would the teens do if the UCA said nah we don’t want you riding hookless it’s dangerous you’re all got to go back to hook rooms what what do they do with the three 400 sets of Wheels they’ve got at the service course

Does zip even make hooked rims any I’m pretty sure they don’t even really make hooked rims anymore kadex all the Giant Bikes come stock with hookless rims that I just don’t see how that’s feasible how how that had happen which is what I probably think should happen if

They’re consistent with how with if the UCI are consistent with how they apply the rules you would say well you banned all that other crap you should probably ban hookless how how does zip and giant a Giant’s a freaking massive company surely there’s got to be some

Pressure that say well no you can’t just ban hookless we got all the like how would that work okay so I I’ve done some asking around and I’m I’m in the proper this is the proper Rumor Mill right this there is absolutely no facts here none whatsoever proper Rumor Mill rum Silo

Deep in forums and just random chat okay so Envy aren’t all in on it in the sense that they still do make hookless rims and they have the capacity from a production perspective to switch back to hookless rims hooked hooked sorry switch back to hooked rims if the case may be

Giant being giant have the scale to be able to do that and not write it off but there would be there’s the the potential to do it zip however like you said are absolutely all in on this and one of the great little rumors I heard was that they would

Continue to to make hookless rims however they would going to get the wording right to this in fact I don’t care if I get the wording right they would in some way glue is not the right word but sort of put in a hook to the actual hookless

Rim and that would it’s potentially Bond bond in a hook an okay so so almost like a half recall of take your hookless rims in and we’ll put a hook back on we’ll Bond it in yep okay yep that’s that was my that was my Rumor hot off the hot off

The rumor press um because they they are in not they are in a much more difficult situation if a band came in to turn around and and do that okay far out yeah that would be that’s why I just go I don’t think it could happen oh so again

Here’s the other I I was trying to think about this what is there any other Tech that was pushed on us by the industry or by a number of Brands and then they had to walk it back I mean there’s nothing that’s been a safety thing I kind of think about the

Cycle of stuff you know you could argue things like bottom brackets have gone through this cycle of you went into press fits and now we’re all now heading back towards threaded bottom brackets yep which maybe canondale had a a a bit to say in why we f went down that

Pressfit route but you know you’re not really talking about the same set of stuff people will say oh disc brakes remember when disc brakes came in but no that was industrywide I’m talking about a couple of Brands pushing it I I can’t think of anything yeah I I do I do feel

Like that this hookless thing happening to a pro Rider on a pro team is kind of vindication for the the gaslighting of oh no why do we do hookless oh it’s more Arrow it’s lighter it’s better for you you want hookless sponsored by hook hookless and and now it’s just every

Year that kind of goes on more and more people keep just going we don’t really want hookless and then you’ve got the leader of the Riders Union saying we don’t want hookless and and it’s sort of uh that sort of gaslighting of no hookas is awesome what do you mean it’s not

Dangerous you just don’t know what you’re doing do you think it’s cut through though so the reason I ask you that is so I I reached out to a couple of bike shops yeah Cas here but another one in Sydney uh one in Victoria uh Grant obviously I chatted to him and

Also the guys uh in Fresno that I went and saw and I asked them just sort of straight up does anyone come in talking about hookless in terms of when they’re making wheel decisions oh are they hookless aren’t they hookless I don’t want that I do want that it pretty much

Across the board no one comes in and says oh but they’re hookless I don’t want those it’s it it hasn’t cut through to that level that’s even worse yeah well I’m not saying that’s a good thing I’m not saying that’s a good thing you know the the Nero show if you know you

No sad crowd that are all sitting around watching us at the moment and you and I one of them we’re we’re like months a year into this controversy that just blows completely over the the heads of 99% of of most most cons which is exactly the problem you if you’re

Running hookless Wheels you should at least know you’re on hookless cuz when you buy new tires they need to be compatible that message from Grant did you read that that was what he said he said put aside all the things about people not knowing or what they’re doing

What he sees a lot of the time when a bike comes in for a service they’ve just got any old Tire any old doesn’t even necessarily have to be sometimes a tubeless tire on a hookless rim they just slap something on it’s not information that gets handed over and

Having not gone into a bike shop and bought a bike for 20 years I don’t know it probably doesn’t come up in conversation I don’t think someone at the Giants door saying hey by the way just keep in mind these are hookless rims so you’re going to be limited

They’re not going to say that yeah all the more reason why but there’s no benefit so anyway I’m not that’s the thing is if it was actually better then there’d be more of a discussion but just get just put the hooks back on bond the hooks back on and

Just can we just move on bond the bond the bond the hooks B the hooks Bond the hooks B the hooks back on just like you put your threaded bottom brackets back in because you couldn’t make a a round bottom bracket we end we’ll just go back to square one and

That’s good as far as I’m concerned the only other Long play Maybe with this that I could think about was zip let’s say they work with the UCI and they they double down on hookless they’re not # bonding the hooks and they they do like a minimum a minimum internal Tire internal

Width of 28 mil or something ridiculous ridiculously wide that forces you to put on a low a wide tire I don’t know well so yeah that would have to make you running even wider test would be the opposite it’ be like so they’ve said here in this article so hun of

Purposefully stuck with a 23 mil internal so that a 28 mil is oh is is is within I’m not going to say safe I’ll say within standards because then you still got the problem of what pressure you’re putting that at you have to really make sure that’s

Accurate so I don’t know saying just cu the tire fits the ETI compliance is safe arguable but at least it’s compliant so maybe but a zip going to go back to narrow rims like people want wider rims so you can have a nice wide tire that has low rolling resistance and

It’s still Arrow so they’d be hookless doesn’t work it doesn’t even in that scenario you’re back at square one I don’t get it but the as you said if you if you’re Factory and all your molds are all it’s all done what you you you’ve you’re done I don’t know it’s a tough

One I just I mean it’s just not a good ad is it you just I’m just looking at that photo of that Ora again and there’s just this this rim with sealant all over it this green piece of foam and he just going what what are we doing this what’s

Dangerous enough can we just keep the tires on the rims please I was just going to say something about I hate leaning into the conspirac I I hate when the conspiracy theory stuff is is right it’s true it’s like you know I I yeah I it’s kind of frustrates me because I I

You know I YouTube is the home of it and I feel like you know we do spend a lot of time getting stuck in those weeds but there’s just no avoiding it here it’s there right there it’s right there yeah yep before we move on a quick word from today’s show partner Sports

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The code Nero at Pillar performance. shop or for our audience in North America head to thefeed.com pillar and enter the code Nero for 15% off General race chat then Jesse we had a bit of bit of action yeah so I watched I watched highlights of the uee to you

You’re plugged into all of the races it looks like are we going to can we do like a scatter gun just quick thing I don’t want to spend 45 minutes on it what’s what’s chat what have you seen what’s chat what’s chat well I I do want

To talk about decathlon a little bit later on but in terms of just I don’t know whether decathlon are the fake news story of 2024 or they really are legit because this is a team that was oh so forgettable for so long in ag2 are and

Now it’s boys we’re we’re lining it up boys we’re we’re launching team ATT te Tu to use a bloody Lantern Rouge phrase team attack like tug buddy attacks on the last sort of fourks of climbs like who are you what have you done and I’m sorry but it’s the bike it’s the rizle

It’s the rizle they’ve lent into it they’ve they I reckon you know what I reckon going on for years there was the specialized package you know everyone who was it was it um Dan was talking about when one of his one of the writers from Luxembourg was going back to one of

The specialized teams his name was ah jles okay Bobby jles where going back to a specializ team and what what he was so looking forward to was just getting back on the package I reckon da cathlon have the package because they’ve got the swissside wheels that have been designed

With the bike and now you’ve seen the decathlon helmets have you i’ every man and his dog has sent me the decathlon shoes that have just been launched beautiful beautiful white Road shoes package it’s all just fitting in nicely I’m I’m on board with it yeah it’s

Pretty cool isn’t it that’s I mean what a start for the for the for uh for rizle too to come out sponsor team to cathon bang on the Jersey and you’re going oh oh we just going to be having a meeting in six months going boys can you just

Get a result and they come out bang Ben o Conor cleaned up on that that Hilltop finish that was yeah that was good that was really good really cool there was a bit of chat going around about UAE Tua though I saw this on Twitter and a lots of Facebook comments

On any of the videos or photos that popped up essentially making fun of the race cuz there was no Spectators oh oh there’s no oh look at the crowd and it would be always the the most liked comment on on whatever I was watching do

You ever thought on this do we care that there’s a race that there’s 10 people watching in person I am so out of touch with procycling Twitter Army I don’t care at all at all makes no impact in my life in any way shape or form it there’s

Just that watching sport from that part of the world that’s what it looks like I also I mean I don’t quite understand firstly it’s a really rich race where the stakes really matter and everyone wants to win so it’s good racing I actually think the landscape looks

Really cool how often do you see people riding on a road in the middle of the desert I I think it looks cool did you see the camera on one of the Sprints stages they had like the shamis say Sprint tracking camera on one of the Sprint stages that was

Sick okay there’s no one watching [ __ ] get over it don’t isn’t it just kind of it’s the crowd that want to kind of um poke fun at the race for sportswashing or some kind of something like that there’s some agenda underneath and then the easiest thing to say is not actually

Just say what you mean but just go oh look here there’s no crowds it’s like it’s bike racing it’s good bike racing it funds the Riders they’re getting good prize money they all want to win camera’s good the streams are good live stream on YouTube I’m watching for free

Can we just get over the no crowds thing it’s so I just think it’s cheap speaking of best camera shots tur of Oman uh tracking shot when they crested that climb and you’ve got Yates and a couple of others it’s just a helicopter tracking shot running along the they’re

Running along the ridge of that run in is going to be very hard to beat as the best camera shot of 2024 I’ll see if I dig it out and put it in the Boll yeah okay interesting um okay a couple of little random other ones that I’ve got for you

So obviously we had omloop as well uh over the weekend just um no real race chat here from me just far more important things I don’t like the Euro Champs Jersey it really annoys me it’s very confusing uh I I don’t obviously not European no but you like it

I don’t know it just looks like a it just looks like a oh like a Brussels yeah I don’t know just an EU executive oh you’re just looking for things to to [ __ ] on visma for because they run every race in the last month

Though I did like his bike so I I have to sort of flip on that like the blue that blue Euro bike’s very nice MH Tom scin has a big butt so he’s changed completely physically he physically looks totally different to what was a bit of a stage what I kind of

Remembered is a bit of a stage hunting sort of puncher type guy he’s he looks like a classic Powerhouse now whether he just had absolute diamonds in his legs on that day I don’t know but no he he just when he came up on screen and there

Was a Tre rider in the break I just assumed it was mads peton yeah didn’t know mads wasn’t writing at the time but like just build wise I just assumed oh that’s him nope it’s it’s sque interesting okay good on him transform himself around going want to Target the early season Classics

Before things get really hot for the big one so put on a couple kilos get stronger well I like that rate that you’ve seen that seen that some somewhat often Riders walk up a little bit and two other quick kit ones for you is Yan tratnik

The first pro cyclist to win a classic wearing a neck buff I saw that he’s on a train he’s on a training ride beautiful that’s very uncomfortable it just didn’t it felt very it felt like I was watching him win a training ride that’s that’s

What it did look like yeah and it it was still on during his uh during his post race interview it’s great very Coes actually that move and the only other kit one was so so I noticed a few of the visma guys have been doing doing this it’s not that they’re running 3/4

Length so they’re not running the classic knee over the knee Valverde style 3/4 length Nick it’s like a just at the knee yes yeah it’s like have you pulled the knee warmers up far enough I’m not quite sure what’s going on there yeah so it’s a it’s a cut off leg warmer it’s

It’s a it’s it’s more of a fashion thing it’s not actually covering it’s covering maybe a third of the knee cap so it’s not really keeping your knees warm but it is a fashion thing guys do it domestically too in some of the colder NRS races you cut your leg

Warmers off and it you know looks I think it looks yeah I think it looks cool personally but I don’t the function is questionable I guess cuz people don’t like the feeling of the leg warmer over the knee it inters with how your knee Cs and it feels a bit awkward especially

Because it creases under the back of the knee so you you kind of cut it as low as you can before it starts getting annoying and that’s probably the reason for it I do love some of these early season races where you just get the full

Mix match of kits like guys running full legs full AR like just full winter gear everything and then potentially regretting it in the last 30 minutes and then the the other sort of flip of it of guys running too too little with and but then trying little tricks like you know

A buff or a knee warmer to try and cover the bases my my last little bit about this last this first little batch of racing how patriotic do you get with this stuff because this was my I only I dipped into a little bit of the Twitter

Stuff uh when Ben o Conor and so J was leading uh that UAE UA to and Ben Conor won that stage and I saw all these guys like aies are up there hey Aussie Aussie austral I can’t it doesn’t do anything like I I will cheer

For you know Australian teams and I I just I can’t get to that place I don’t know what it is about cycling but when the Riders are in their trade teams I’m I am more likely to support style of a rider I don’t know the way a race has

Even been ridden how that might play out than just I’m very much on that I’ll flipflop throughout the stage so I want the raceing to be as exciting as possible so someone breaks away I go oh I hope the bunch catches them and then if the bunch is riding along and someone

Attacks I’m going oh yeah let’s go I want them to win say I’m on to climb I’m always just cheering for whatever it’s going to bring the race back together um yeah when’s the last time you Che for an Aussie like full Aussie well the Jay Vine ones not fair

Because it’s just him personally uh count I wanted ji hinley to win the Juro cuz he’s an Aussie yes cuz he’s an an Aussie winning the Juro yeah yeah that’s that’s that’s good I’ll give you that I was definitely in that camp yeah okay yeah because that’s a big deal yep that

I was getting patriotic then yeah it is it’s it’s I do feel like I’m That Kind of I’m almost like too cool it’s like that you know that sort of pathetic like oh you I’m So Into the sport the Nations don’t matter to me yeah yeah I don’t

Know so anyway hopefully I’ll I’ll try I’ll try cheering so this was a funny sanction came up from the UCI so they’ve the UCI disciplinary commission the UDC have sprung a team for dressing up their mechanic as a rider and trying to do a Dodge yet the

Sign on would you believe an incognito so what’s happened here they did a whole press release on it so UCI women’s Continental team sinisa cycling at a one day UCI race in Belgium they only had four riders that can start so at a UCI race with a UCI team you need to

Have five Riders minimum or they won’t let you start so for whatever reason they only had four Riders available so the the team sports directors gone to the me mechanic and said hey just put a face mask on take the rider’s ID and just go try your luck at sign on at sign

On as the fifth riter so they’ve done that and then obviously the the the UCI Commissary at the sign On’s gone oh could you take your mask off so I can see who you are and Bob’s your uncle it’s the bloody mechan not the rider and

And that’s day done for this team trying to sign on for this race and there is some very heavy sanctions that came from this I mean to me it sounds innocent enough but the the team sports directors is banned from any activity in cycling until the end of December

2025 two years can’t work with a team the the Incognito mechanic dress up as uh she’s uh been banned until the September 2024 and then the the poor four riders that have just kind of gone along with it except they’ve been reprimanded and sanctioned which doesn’t really say much

And then the teams basically banned until the next race they were confirmed for which could have been later in the year so very I would say very heavy sanctions for that um but I just thought it was funny because you would be surprised how often something like this

Would happen like can we can I break it down there’s a lot of there’s a lot of things at play here that people probably don’t realize the sign on process for a race I think they are actually quite unlucky so couple of things they are definitely very

Unlucky okay firstly usually for a race you don’t actually need to show ID usually the team manager goes up uh usually the day before the race or the morning of the race it’s a one day race hands over all the riter IDS the commiss hands them the race pack

With all the numbers and off they go right so there’s an obvious potential issue there and well who are you actually signing on secondly no one’s checking who’s pinning the number on you know Chris Miller could be pinning a number on and it’s my race number you could be on the start

Line you could do the entire race no one would be any the wiser because there no there’s no one’s actually standing there from the UC going writer ID number 31 is Jesse Coy hold on who the hell are you they don’t actually check that so um that’s the first thing they just quite

Unlucky that this was a race there are some races when I was over in Europe where every writer individually needs to go up with ID and sign on individually so that looks like it’s the case here that’s not the case at every race um so yeah I think they are quite unlucky but

You can imagine what’s the situation here you had six Riders right two get sick one’s crashed so maybe you’ve got three or four Riders at the start line do you try and do a sneaky at the sign on and then maybe only three end up

Making it to the start line or do you just leave the race hypothetically Jesse purely hypothetically if you were in a team and you were doing a stage race and the first stage was a prologue but it was it was the obviously the day before

Stage one and one or two of the hype itical team hypothetical writers couldn’t get to the start of that race they had full intentions of making it and doing the whole whole thing but sometimes like at this level of racing most people are either doing jobs studying all kinds of different bits and

Pieces so it’s not that easy to get to these sort of things sorry it wasn’t a prologue it was a crit I got that wrong it’s a crit prologue would have been far more difficult a crit situation especially if the person at the start knows who the Riders are

Full visor helmet on but a crit was a much easier situation and really all you had to do is start the crit so luckily for the hypothetical team there was a mechanic who was able to get the bike and you know you’d go and sign up so you

You got the actual transponder and all that kind of stuff and that bike therefore just had to cross the start line of the crit yep cross the start line of the crit pull out at the end of the next corner you got pulled got got dropped sorry y that particular Rider

Has thus started the race had no obviously intention of doing anything in the GC sort of thing so that’s that’s all fine arrives next day and away we go transponder and all that kind of thing continue on I honestly reckon this sort of stuff happens all the time I I just I

Just assumed that if this happened the commiss would just go oh [ __ ] come on move along but they’ve obviously been reported and then the wording is you played an active role in fraud and you’re like whoa W like this is like fairly common because you’re at a bike

Race you’re flying in and out flights get delayed people Miss blah blah blah the only thing I would say is this actually we were in this situation when I was in Europe in 2022 with a team the two of the Riders got Co one crashed we literally had three you need five

Minimum you just go speak to the race organizers and explain the situation they’ll let you start so committing fraud when you don’t have to is just a dumb decision by that DS they should have just spoken to the race they’ll let you start with three Riders unless they’re real prick the co thing

Definitely allowed for more leniency though I I I don’t know if you could still do that now possibly not there’s there’s a bit more of a clamp down yeah but you would I don’t know if that DS tried but that’s the logical thing is just ask if you can start with three

Most of the time they’ll go okay yeah yeah if there’s a good reason for it we exactly this but I I wouldn’t hesitate hesitated to have a crack at doing it just in terms of between that and not starting well that’s everything you do

To try and get to the start line and do all that sort of stuff okay then you have your ride or pull out the day before whatever you’ve just you just got to get it done somehow I think one of the reasons why they have the five rer minimum

Rule which is fine I don’t issue I think the rule makes people kind of why do you have to have five why can’t you just have one well you’ve got a limited number of teams that can enter a race and if all these teams just start

Rocking up with oh we just sent one Rider we entered it 6 months ago and guys couldn’t be bothered or two Riders it’s just crap you end up with 80 people in the race so it’s nice to have a five minimum so you’ve actually got a proper race and

Not have people just taking the piss if it’s a lower level race so I I get I understand the rule from that point of view too but definitely this is the first time I’ve seen someone disciplined for what I will say happens fairly regularly in some way or another it’s not the same

In a stage race though because I remember in the Philippines we only we only finished with two so you can obviously start once you get deeper into the tour they give more leniency obviously oh it’s not even leaning to you just have to start with five and

Then you kicked out you get kicked out don’t make time cut yeah yeah so that’s but that doesn’t affect the team as such cuz that’s what happened to us cuz we had we started with with five and we had one pull out in the day one another pull

Out on day three two pulled out in day three was just you and I that finished yeah yeah that’s fine yeah yeah yeah that’s no problem so a week after we talked about not wanting to talk about bike launches and specifically not wanting to talk about the giant TCR

Launch we’re going to talk about the giant giant TCR launch but I’m going to come at this from a different angle all right okay y so giant TCR is going to be launched very soon I would even has it to guess the beginning of March

Okay I am fully a certain that as we speak right now this very second this very very second bike reviewers be they magazine based be they YouTube based have the giant TCR under their shamies in the cots walls in the cot walls exactly currently doing the laps of the

Cotwell so it kind of got me thinking when this embargo lifts some point in March yep we’re going to get fluted Jesse the the feeds are going to be smashed with TCR spec videos yep and I was thinking I wonder what they’re going to look like I wonder what

The thumbnail is going to be yep and I wonder what the title’s going to be yep what’s the angle what’s the angle so can we start with can we start with gcn well we start with gcn that’s the obvious place to start we know they’re going to

Do one they are well okay well you got to you got to kind of go start with what a what a giant goingon to what’s the spec sheet from giant the sort of onepage overview that the that the reviewers are then going to be looking at everything through the lens that

Giant give them so yeah what’s that going to be um I don’t know what you think okay so what would they say that doesn’t that doesn’t compete with the Propel and make the Propel potentially redundant I think it’s Heritage so I think you’ll see It’ll uh it’ll be the

TCR so this the thumbnail okay yeah this is the thumbnail okay it’ll okay I think the TCR is going to look different is going to look quite different than it has for the last decade so I think people will look at the bik and go oh that’s in that’s that looks different

But then they’re going to play on the H go Return of the King or or or a legend reborn 2024 is it 2024 2025 2024 giant TCR modern take on an old classic yep that’s I think that’s it because I mean what does it mean it look

It’s just it doesn’t matter it’s the TCR in 2024 I mean who cares what the specs are that’s perfect for gcn perfect angle uh the thumbnail will be one of their sort of Highly produced they very good thumbnails they’re ad thumbnails I reckon um it’ll

Look you know depth of field will be up there any thoughts on the so is the thumbnail going to have any text in it do you think or is it no technical they won’t go they won’t go near the technical stuff I think they’ll just double down on this is the TCR

Return to the king yep and that and and it’ll be potentially as well not just the profile shot of the bike I think they’ll try and use someone riding the bike out of the saddle disagree probably upper climb you reckon they’re disagree okay disagree I think it’s going to be

All about that frame okay no see I think that’s Dave ass he just goes well hang on so far in it’s just the frame and then it’ll have than Dave arur is my guy okay sorry you got to do you got to gcn all right so my my take with with Dave

It’s currently smashing it about these local Hills as we speak yep but he’s okay his thumbnail is going to be it’s classic can I just say that the thumbnails are probably already being created as we speak there’s probably some Filipino making it up right now so it it’s happening Arthur’s thumbnail

Will be it will be ideally a white TCR I don’t know what he’s probably doesn’t get to choose that but I think hopefully it’s a white whiter TCR there’s going to be an arrow pointing to the frame okay because I reckon he’s going to hit a spec M his goes yeah but he’s

No I’m going to stick with this his goes a spec it’s going to be a an arrow pointing to the frame with 591 G or whatever the claimed frame weight is yep that’s Giant’s top spec for this bike is going to be we are so [ __ ] light the lightest TCR

Ever how could it okay how could it possibly be the lightest TCR ever I they’ll find a way they’ll find way don’t worry find a way lightest TCR ever look y that’s that’s your Pi the lightest seat tube of the TCR ever yep okay who else who else has got one to

Yeah who’s who’s heading out well I mean you’ve got your your bike Radars your cycling Weekes I I can’t really get excited about what holding it speed and point it downhill are going to say or are going to do about it but yeah I there’s going to have there’s going to be

Someone it’s potentially it’s potentially cycling weekly that do it’s either going to be sl8 killer or or the new king top of the pile just the Ducks nuts one someone’s going to there’s going to be that too of of holy [ __ ] this is literally the best bike that has ever

Existed I’m pretty sure someone’s going to have to go that route and bike radar cycling weekly I’d say does anyone go the reverse does anyone go negative yeah not yeah missed the mark this year yeah does I mean you know does anyone does anyone mention the war does anyone say

You know what the Propel kind of is the bike you need I don’t know why giant are doing this I I don’t think we’re probably there yet I think maybe Dave references it stays clear go on Dave put her put an arrow on the frame go on just do

It do it for me please maybe someone brings the price into it I don’t know what giant are going to do with the pricing strategy but there’s the potential Avenue for the price in the thumbnail or the title if giant managed to do some uh what would it be uh top spec for

For 14k something like that is probably the other one let not as common it would have be pretty extreme pricing I re that’s that’s a potential bike radar okay that’s cuz that’s very much their Their audience I reckon so yeah that that could be that route you’re right

Though they’d have to do something pretty special pricewise to do it yeah I do think we we are complet we’re not we’re not out of touch but I do think I stand by my comments about this bike that it’s I think it’s the biggest bike launch of

2024 mhm just purely on the heritage M there’s just so many like I was even the the writing that I’ve done the last couple of weekends there’s just so many people out there riding who that’s the bike they’re they’re going to ride because it’s they’ve known it they’ve

Known it for 20 years and even if it’s changed a little bit it’s still the same TCR to them and it does exactly what they want a bike to do cuz they’re going to do one or two hilly fondos every year and now their bike’s going to weigh less

Than 7 kilos to do it and does it matter when they probably maybe do a CGR crit probably not you know it’s it’s the bike for the no I’m not going to say it’s the bike for the masses but it’s I I that TCR maybe it’s an Australian thing no no

Yeah but that that cult oh they’re they’re cultish about the TCR the T TCR Tuesdays TCR TCR uh it’s a big it’s name the top five bike models over the last 20 years TCR is% definitely up there I mean up no no no two ways about it definitely it’s got the Heritage what

Would your thumbnail be Jesse what a we okay so that’s the next question so what is the Nero show the Nero show thumbnail big Punk a poo on it dog of a bike no I I really like to think mhm that we will either the thumbnail

Could be from us I I I genuinely would like to think this that we go the thumbnail is game changer legitimate best value Performance Bike and we we fully Nero sticker it oh or we fully [ __ ] bag it and just go n you guys have totally missed it poo Emoji I would

Like to think right that it could go either way okay I think that’s fair yeah yeah if we could if you know maybe like no you guys just [ __ ] bag everything maybe which I do keep getting told which surprises me I I don’t think with that negative I really don’t I know

You don’t want me to say this but I’m going to say it it still blows my mind nuro show Community I’m sure you’ll probably agree with me that some someone at GI giant hasn’t reached out to Jesse and going you know what you’re on an old Rim break TCR you like

Tcrs what’s a really good story put you on a new one let you write it share it with the Nero show people it blows my mind no one a giant no one has giant has offered to do that anyway I just wanted to say that would okay well here’s a

Problem what what if it’s what if it’s a flop well but I guess the point is they should back the you can’t say to me if you work at Giant you cannot say to me that someone riding a bike that is 10 years old is not as good as your well absolute

If you can’t stand behind that okay then what are you even doing well that’s a good point okay like and you’re not okay unless they think that I’m going to be vind vindictive about it for some reason and I would just trash it just I wouldn’t do that but maybe that’s the

But you’re right I’m on a 2017 bike you’d think the 2024 would be noticeably better I I I know that’s the answer that they’re terrified but I mean the flip side is it’s such an I mean you’re not a [ __ ] you’re just you’re just a bike rider like you really are

And you know what is a good bike and what is a bad bike you’ve ridden some dogs back back in the day but you know you can’t tell me a topof the line TCR is is going to have Jesse Co sitting in front of me saying you know what get rid

Of it it’s just not of all these bikes that are getting released and got released the the TCR is probably the one that I’d be curious to ride the most because I’ve got the top spec 2017 one which is now 7 years old so I it would be quite an

Interesting comparison to ride that and ride the new one and then really clearly be able to say within the exact same model of bike if Gina saying it’s still doing the same purpose how much has it improved in seven years because you’d think it should be black and white cut

And dry are this thing absolutely dusts off the 2017 Fram set and spec I I’d be yeah I I uh spoiler giant didn’t send me one to test R so I’m not writing one but it would be an interesting comparison to to to compare it in the TCR

Family yeah to that time of the episode Chris subscri question let’s play it good boys my question for you is I was listening to the tpr podcast with M maharic about descending like in the first bits he spoke a lot about descending and how to descend properly um which is really fascinating

But it got me thinking why is Performance training so popular and everyone talks about it but no one talks about technical coaching that is a bloody good question and I don’t I don’t uh I don’t disagree you I mean we’ve talked about it on the show before you

Go out on a Saturday you ride up north to bobin head 8 Minute climb you ride back up half the people coming down the other side are not technically descending in even just a correct position let alone the lines they’re taking it and that sort of thing you can see they’re

Actively nervous descending like it is a it is a problem it’s it’s a it is a problem I don’t know the answer but I can give some experience on some of this stuff and I know you guys used to do some uh Technical experience-based Training it’s very time inefficient uh and unfortunately

Just with the nature of the way coaching has gone now by the looks of it it’s not geographically centrally located so you know you might have how many how many athletes in Sydney five and you can watch as many YouTube videos or listen to two idiots talk about descending as much as you

Want but there is nothing like descending behind someone who knows what they’re doing and trying to mimic them and just to double down on that point you made about um the group rides I felt like such a [ __ ] on the weekend so I’m coming back um from my ride and I’m

About to descend down bobin head and there’s a um there’s a charity ride group out and they’re all got their headsets on in their race radios and they start descending and they’re all in the tops you know there’s ride I’m not going to give out about them but there’s ride

Leaders there they’re not paying attention to that they’re traffic manager people basically and I go them and I I said stuff like guys get in the drops get in the drops get in the drops it’s much easier down here and I’m going past I’m going down in the drops guys

Down in the drops and of course I’m going fast there I’m having to shout yeah and so I come across as this like [ __ ] just shouting abuse at them but like I’m trying to offer them like it’s very simp just get down here guys that’s that’s literally all and so

You you know even offering people advice or hand it’s it’s difficult well it’s it comes with sort of a loaded like attitude I suppose well especially if when if you’re a random blowing past them on a descent that I mean that’s where clubs come in cuz generally with a

Club you’re on a club ride you have a bit more time time hopefully someone higher up at the club more experienced can can can guide you but if you’re not riding with the club I mean where do you learn how to descend what watch a Youtube

Video um I it is a it’s a problem I’ve gone through that problem too because I used to be the guy as well on any ride where you would sort of dread the crest of the Hill which is going into The Descent you’d be thinking about all

That time oh [ __ ] we got to go we got to descend down waterfall and you get you know the whole 10 km before they going oh that descent coming up oh and then you get there and you’re super nervous because your descending skill is not great and everyone else is going faster

And it it’s really anxiety ridden part of the ride is the running and then The Descent not to mention if you’re also not technically proficient descending it’s more dangerous because you’re not in control I um the only thing I can say is if there is someone in your local area

Or even within driving distance that does descending coaching or clinics and that is good it’s worth every penny I would anyone personally anyone I coach I would say try and find someone that can pay for it if if it’s a service available if not ask a friend uh to to

That’s more experienced to at least get you guide you in the right direction and you can follow them down a couple of other things as well when I was most people don’t train their descending or cornering for that matter like when I was starting out a

Little bit I would go and just ride the descents up and down uh I mean I naturally get it on some of the rides we did cuz you were more experienced than I was but like most people never practice their descents the only time they’ve descended

Is just I happen to be riding down this hill on this loop I wanted to do not actually repeat it and take what you’ve probably seen on YouTube a lot of the advice in some of the desent videos on YouTube is quite good it’s just that you’ve never actually gone and tried to

Apply it multiple times in a single session so you just go and Ride The Descent up and down multiple times practice the lines position the outside foot all that stuff that they where you’re looking exiting the corner all that stuff that they will say on a YouTube video that you forget the next

Time you ride go and practice it same with crits go and just on your own practice your crit cornering bring up the speed like that most people haven’t had someone tell them that hey you’re not that good at sending go and actually practice it thoughtfully otherwise how are you

Expecting to get better at it yeah I mean my only two things about it was if you are doing a training session and it it’s a hill rep use the descents of the Hill rep as training as well like I def I find massive value in that because once you

Actually get really familiar with a corner or a sequence of Corners you start to become more confident and that’s important and you push yourself more and more into those Corners because you know the the ins and outs the the apexes of them and you learn just for

Repetition of that and you can take that Beyond just that local Hill rep so use that particular rep the only and I this is one of my regrets my my um Kryptonite when it comes to descending as you know it’s not descending bik handling is hot dog 180 slow speed turns

Absolute Kryptonite to me and I and you can descend well you’ll drop me on a descent I back myself with most descenders normal humans not Michael freeberg but put me going around a cone at a hot dog course I cannot do it and I really regret not doing any kind of like

Cycle cross type stuff where that’s the whole event or even just taking a cross bik or down to your local oval and doing really simple stuff because I was always so frightened on tarmac that I was just going to always slip out doing that stuff so that would be my only other

Thing pick your your absolute weakness and just get over it because it’s going to linger with you trust me for decades and it’s just going to get worse and worse I noticed another question about the S5 can we talk about that next week yes because I want to do a full uh Fondo

Spec what I’ve done to the S5 yes I’m running the S5 at Peaks made some changes to it I want to talk about that expectations for how I have my experience writing it so far as a one buy all that kind of thing it was a

Really good question about it so I do want to I do want to definitely get onto that we got time for one more yeah let’s go one more one more subscrib a question let’s play it here hey guys if you could have any Pie in the Sky Bike Tech what

Would it be and why all right so my My Pie in the Sky Tech is a bike computer that brings it all together all right so the do it all B computer it all B computer one B computer Ru right now on my b computer I

Want I want accurate readout of my tire pressure front and rear mhm displayed display the $400 quack which I want that on there so obviously this is in addition to everything else um I want a I want a CDA um number displayed to me at all

Times so there I am I’m you know in the bunch I attack then I get down into my I’m that’s all I’m looking at just looking at my CDA and so that’ be built into the head unit it’s got the wi sensors it’s all it’s all okay it’s all

There measuring through through my helmet all that kind of stuff absolutely and the last little bit that I want in there well maybe this can kind of feature in it but I want I want like a insta go3 sized comp uh camera but I want it

In the frame I want it actually mounted in the frame so there’s no it’s it’s part of the arrow features of the bike so I’m not trying to find I’m not slapping this massive bloody plasma screen on the front of my beautifully Arrow bars I

Want that in the frame and I want it to be controlled by by by computer so I’ve got start stop and I can see it it displays G me a live preview of it beautiful that’s my tech you’ve just come I couldn’t even think of that that

Is just the built-in CDA sensor into the head think about this stuff all the time I honestly think it do you know how you don’t listen to podcasts this is the this is where my brain goes when I’m on a solo bike ride I that bike ride I did

On the weekend 6 hours no podcast oh my God you are sick you’re a sick human Chris and the birds just listening to the birds and thinking about c c i want some sort of you know the iPhone’s got the liar detector I want to sit on the

Trainer everything set up someone walks around with a phone and properly 3D maps my entire bik fit and it tells me all the changes I need to make but not from the camera from side on I want it 3D mapped and so I can get a professional bike fit that’s

Looking at everything in 3D space and it’s done in five minutes I find that interesting that’s your that’s your well I’m still thinking I haven’t really done much uh that was the first thing that came to mind considering you’ve had one bike fit in three decades

I find that interesting as the one thing that you want but yeah it’s just been relevant just I’ve been chatting to people that have been getting bike fits done I’m just going what are you we’re driving here it’s like a 4-Hour thing just like all it is bike fits doing is

Looking at your body on the bike and suggesting changes why why can’t that be mapped I mean it have to be done accurately but surely come on bikes are pretty freaking good hey I I don’t know I’m thinking geez it’s goes pretty quick and you know I don’t know

Uh oh H this is so I’m really boring you had really good like sci-fi ones I’m like oh this is going to this is so bad I wish I had something better this is so lame and like sounds like I’m pandering it’s like a super fully 100% integrated

Not a not a thing in the air but is still entirely 100% adjustable so I 3D ma my bike fit the problem is you’re on that you 3D map with with Jesse coil’s bike fit app well who cares you can barely adjust anything I want to be on

That more integrated but every single touch point I could possibly imagine adjusting I want to be able to do it I like that so it’s a completely malleable uh like you’re generating a yeah the shapes I like that that’s nice so basically every single touch Point has adjustable

Things somehow I don’t know how you do it and you can just change everything every possible measurement so it’s it’s almost like you’d have a a custom built bike but everything’s still integrated build it into my bike computer and have so I could be coming into the base of

The back of Falls and I’m like geez I’d really bring my bars up for this yep thumbs up lovely I like that y yeah start of the crit you know you’re nice and relax your breakway off the front Bank saddle just comes forward and then you you to over CDA just drops yeah

And then you live you see it in action perfect I like that all right uh I think that’s probably us done this week Jesse I think so make sure to continue to send your questions in to the DMS on the neuros cycling Show Instagram page but

Apart from that guys uh we will see you all next week see you Then