Abused by multiple men for a decade and my Mum knew: with Michelle Duffy

In tomorrow’s episode we are joined with Michelle Duffy. Michelle takes us through her heartbreaking childhood and what she went through from she was 4 to 16. Being abused by multiple men throughout her childhood and how she fought for justice.

Please note: The content of this episode may be graphic and sensitive to some viewers.

For more information and resources on supporting survivors of domestic abuse in the UK, please visit:

Women’s Aid: A leading organization working to end domestic abuse against women and children. Helpline: 0808 2000 247

National Domestic Abuse Helpline: Helpline: 0808 2000 247

Refuge: Providing support and information for women and children experiencing domestic violence. Helpline: 0808 2000 247

Remember, you’re not alone, and there are resources available to help you or someone you know navigate through difficult situations.

Welcome back guys to the bear and Scully podcast with me Sean scolan AKA Scully man AKA The Bear even the face for radio behind the scenes and today we’re joined with Michelle Duffy welcome to the show thank you Michelle thanks very much for coming on I know you never pictured

Yourself here in a million years but we really appreciate it but before we get into it and as people have come to expect with our show sometimes we cover very deep issues we going to go until sexual abuse children sexual abuse trauma so for some people this may be

Very triggering MH we are going to include L of the help links in below but what I would say is guys just if this is a troubling issue take care of yourself watch with caution and we’re going to get into it so Michelle i’ sort of

Preluded to it but there’s a long story a very complex trauma on a lot but before we get into that we’re going to find out where you’re from and then we we we’ll move on and and ask and and I know sometimes when I ask people like

That that’s like I’m taking you to your childhood to away MH I’m so some people it’s not a good place to go straight away but it’s maybe the best place for us to to to to start and find out where you’re from okay so my name is Michelle

Duffy obviously I am born and bred in Belfast as you can probably tell from the accent um I grew up around the cliftonville area um and I’m here today as a complex trauma Survivor so what that means for some people who don’t know is that I have had prolonged and multiple types of

Trauma and abuse such as physical emotional neglect and sexual abuse um over the years I don’t know where we start there and and I suppose at the very start the first traumatic and and how that all came about how this was we will get into this and how this was all

Allowed to happen but when you grow up what is your earliest memory there so with anyone who has experienced multiple traumas just to put it out there so it is very normal to have lots of fragmented memories or gaps in memories um just because of dissociation or repeated dissociation and just for

Anyone who doesn’t know dissociation is something that children and young people do so when you’re a child and you’re stuck in a situation that’s quite scary you can escape um and the only option you have is to go away in your mind and numb out and go somewhere else in your

Head so doing that repeatedly means there may be Memory gaps so whilst some of the memories might be all over the place I know from Social Services reports and things a lot of the timeline so for me um I suppose it began from what I can remember when I was age four

Of being sexually abused well sorry ripped so let’s just call it what it is rep because I think sometimes when we say sexual abuse not that that sounds nice but you know kind of fluffs it up a bit or makes it a bit easier for people

To hear but it’s rip and it’s not nice so at age four I was raped by someone known to the family now I didn’t disclose until I was seven and my memories around that were this was a man who was quite prolific child abuser in the community I wasn’t

The only one um but he was quite violent so I remember him being quite violent and coming in with a knife um at age four and kind of ripping the nighty off I don’t really remember much after that cuz I’ve probably frozen out and dissociated but I what I do remember is

Lying in bed and obviously my mom had an addiction to alcohol so the record player would have been playing and I don’t know well you probably are old enough to remember the record players so music would have just kept playing and I kept playing on L you know that Elvis

Song you’re always on my mind and I remember lying there thinking is it safe to move cuz it was terrified to move and for years I couldn’t listen to that song cuz it was just so triggering I don’t remember too much after that I just know I was sick and I

Have actually a photograph in the house of me age4 and I remember the next day been taken to get this k at the Frog and there’s a picture of me in the house you know and these we tiny hands you know sitting with this km at the frog on this

Weet sad face and when I look at it now I just think my God you know that poor child how could someone do that because when I think of myself I don’t see myself as that small because I’m an adult now but that picture for me when I look at that it’s always

Horan so I’m probably way bit all over the place here I remember telling when I was seven so I told in school and I think before that in my behavior it was quite evident um reports from School Of Me banging my head on walls running away from school hiding under coats um

Soiling myself in class cuz obviously I was just so distressed um and I was taken with a well-known charity I remember getting into a room and having these dolls and having to show Parts um I don’t know if anything happened to the man at the time

In relation to me but I know he did go to prison eventually but as I say he was a prolific child abuser um and had abused a lot of people in the community um so feel like I’m lost here you’re fine you’re fine you know Michelle I don’t even know what to say

When you said that like it hit me for six four years of age I I can’t I and I’m sorry to people that’s listening I’m I’m struggling so much the the thought of this and you’re having these memories from four how how did this person come to be in

In your mom had an addiction to alcohol was your father about it at this time my father also had addiction to alcohol so my dad was quite violent towards my mom there was a lot of domestic and physical abuse going on in the house so he would

Have been in and out of the house um so I don’t think he was around at that time they had a very on andof relationship very toxic relationship for years um my other siblings would have been in the house at the time but no I I don’t think my dad was

Around at that time so the house was more accessible they were drinking they weren’t just people were coming and going yeah is that is that yeah okay and the thing you know that gets me is this man was known to be a child abuser but still L to be

In the house um what age was your siblings so I’m the oldest I’m the oldest of it um so we’re all steps and stirs um my brother next to me would have been a year younger and then a sister a year younger than him so all

Steps and stairs and I think there would have been a baby in the house at the time as well and there’s a someone known to be AIC sexual offender in the house yeah did you did you know at that time that you couldn’t speak to your mom

About it and is that way you spoke till somebody in the school I think I didn’t really understand what had happened and I think because the knife in the room and the violence of the attack just had me terrified I mean at the age of 40 you would never had the

Words to explain that or what happened um so I don’t think I understood I think it come out more in my behavior so as I say I was first abused sorry raped at age four then I was raped again somewhere in between 6 and seven by a different perpetrator also known to the

Family um so I think it may have come out alongside that and what what exactly happened there when have you said this till who was it in the school that you discussed it with a teacher with a teacher so the teacher went and brought that till who probably whoever the safegard was or

Whatever the protocol was at the time um I do no social services come out to the house at the time I went with a charity and this is in the media anyway the nspcc they used to have a facility for children and young people who were

Impacted by sexual violence um and as I say there was like a remember tway mura so they used to bring you in and do play therapy and that these dolls were parts and they used to ask you to show what had happened to you so I remember those

Bits obviously because I was quite young I can’t remember every detail but all I know is it didn’t stop someone came and took me out once a week you know and Social Services were involved in the house but these things were still happening well Michelle just just so I can understand this

Because I don’t know however it’s my ignorance or thing I just when you said that it just made me Carl inside a four-year-old your your baby I didn’t even know how that’s possible I don’t even want to think of that but what I wanted to say we’re asking you these

Things and these are obviously things that you’ve been known afterwards because there’s been reports was there a record of that of you as a child Talent someone that MH so so there has been alerts till people in positions that should be fit to protect you at this

Point yeah has your mother been brought in and and notified of this yes um my mom knew about all so I was um raped by four people so age four was the first time I was raped and by the age 12 I was raped by four different men all known to

The family and my mom and services were aware of all of them I’m I’m sorry because I I’m not equipped well to so I’m going to ask these questions and I don’t want them to be un sensive because I I want from this from people to know that you know what’s

Happening and you know I find my trust is withered I can’t you know I can’t trust anyone from what I hear because these are all people known to your family so I’m going to ask take it one by one because I know we’re asking you

And it’s all over the place and and it must have been like a self protection thing where you had no physical Escape you have to mentally Escape so we’re asking you things that about details and it’s not that we want it’s not that we’re comfortable to ask these but we

Just we want to get an idea of who so this happened MH you you nspcc had been involved mhm your teacher had been involved they’re told a four-year-old child has come forward and told them they’ve been ried how you’re not you won’t know this but was legal action at this time did the

Police come in did did did this progress do we know any of this I know that I had a medical um which was very distressing at the age seven um that they do but obviously because it happened at age four I don’t know the ins and outs of

That um cuz there’s a whole lot of blanks in the notes but I remember being distressed during that medical and feeling pretty traumatized again you know cuz it’s quite invasive and being only seven and having to go through that is tough so there was Medical but I think the thing people don’t understand

Around sexual abuse rape and all of that is it is very very rare for it to ever go to court or you know to go any where the place will come out because it’s one of those things at your word against theirs and with sexual abuse

You know there’s a timeline so at age 4 I didn’t come forward till 7 and yes it was still going on but it can be very hard to get medical evidence around that and when you’re that young age as well you’re deemed as not being fit to maybe

Give evidence um so I work with lots of young people as well and you know their stuff never goes to court and I think I said here earlier you know last year there was like 4,232 reported offenses of sexual violence of some sort only 1,9 and4 now I don’t get me over those

Exact figures ever went to the PPS so already there’s a big disparity there but only 540 ever went to court for conviction is this is this children or in that’s in general in general so 10% of of reported cases end up in conviction yeah and that’s got better

Years ago it was really really rare for it ever to go anywhere we we we know this Draconian system it favors I don’t care and I said this in somebody like and it favors the perpetrator not the victim like it it it is but I cannot compute that when a child comes forward

And says these things now I know children can say things but if they say that that sort of thing to any K half sensible that’s there is all sorts of alarm Bells going off how can that be allowed to happen I know how many years

Ago are we are we talking so I’m 45 now um 41 years ago yeah so and but you’re so 38 years ago or s yeah but even even at s years of age you were saying about no legal action was taking place in my head a child at 7

Years old I have a young girl I would like to think if my young girl or any young girl or any young boy whoever it is at seven years of age goes and says to a teacher somebody in trust or whatever it is and says this is what’s

Been happening that social services just rush in and that remove them from that household or remove them out of that situation but it doesn’t sound like that was the case no no and it wasn’t at all and it’s not that they didn’t believe everybody believed that this was happening you know teachers

Professionals believed but it’s that innocent until proven guilty and you know my mom as well because of her addictions and she had a lot of her own trauma as well you know but I I’ll not get into that but she had a lot of stuff in her past too and I

Just don’t think think she had the capacity but she was a scary woman at the same time and I remember social workers coming up The Path and should have been out you know shouting and giving off and the social worker would have run back down the path so I think

There was a bit of fear around it cuz it isn’t protected as it is now and I am a social worker a trained social worker and children’s therapist you know if we go to doors KN we have the police coming alongside us but it wasn’t like that in

Those days so I think the social workers were terrified and I used to be thinking you know she’s running off cuz she’s afraid but we’re left here we’re left here and we’re only kids and you know if you’re afraid how do you think we feel but that’s a massive feeling the self

That there’s a person there to come and they’re scurrying up the street where they should have been doing whatever they have to do to protect you because that’s their job yeah like it baffles me to think that that’s the way that that was but at the same time I don’t want to

Paint the picture that if there’s anybody in that situation they shouldn’t talk to somebody or they shouldn’t go because that’s the way it’s going to be I’m hoping that things have changed from them and have got better thing things have definitely changed and it’s not the

Way it was then and I think because more people are coming forward and the system failings have been highlighted that you know it is changing bbp and and high profile by cases like this there was a massive overhaul in the system for the Social Services there there has been a

Massive mindset change too Social Services back then seem like medlers when they’re lifelines the people I know people think that and the only people that really think that is the ones that are abusing or or protecting abusers yeah social services are there for Children’s Welfare the welfare so the

Feelings that went on they angry but back then it wasn’t uncommon like there were maybe what we’re talking about 12 13 years ago there was a massive overhaul when like the the head of the services were pulled in in front of MPS and ask for how can these feelings

Happen and how can these situations happen so they happened and they happened regularly but there’s repeated feelings for you and the the one thing then as we go on you know you saying there you’re because of your moment yeah that that there’s reason we we’ll get into the relationship with of

That after but at 7 then you’re you’re becoming a we bit older mhm I know I’m saying s you’re coming older what I’m saying is you’ve you’ve already experienced this trauma before what way did that what way did that develop for you as a child with your behavior and how you how

Did you get on school and how did that all effect after that well I’ve touched a way bit on so there’s reports in schools I have lots of blanks in my memory so I have dissociative Amnesia and that is in relation to not being able to escape the horror FY things that

Were happening in my house and it wasn’t just the rapes and sexual abuse that was going on it was lots of other things as well so I had no option but to disappear somewhere to get away from what was actually happening and when it’s happening in your home a place that is

Supposed to be safe by people who are supposed to be looking at after you then as a child you can’t think these people looking after me are dangerous and I’m not safe so in order to allow yourself to be in that house and in that situation you have to separate so you

Dissociate parts that are being hurt away from the parts that have to engage with those people looking after you who are doing you harm so there is those blanks there and the memory is all over the place and I’ve had to kind of come to terms with

That you know my siblings would know more about what’s happened to me like there’s reports professionals would know more than what maybe I know about myself and that’s quite common and people who have experienced what I have experienced but people are afraid to say it because

Then if they say well I can’t remember people will discredit them and some way but you know at science there’s loads of theory I know what you’re saying that the the people here the manipulators the the abusers are using your lack of memory not the fact that they’ve

Traumatized their victim that much that they’ve literally to protect their own sanity they have closed that off yeah but then this happened again at 7even and then did anything change after this no no I was abused and raped right up till I was 16 well tell me this right and we’re going

To move to that but not only sexual abuse but to ask there’s neglect they’re not looking after you was there any did you ever have any nice memories in in in there was this like it’s it’s just like your mom what what was the what did she ever

Speak to you about this and and yes well my mom died through suicide in 2007 so she took an overdose and it was 10 days before she passed away I hadn’t spoke to my mom for 2 years before this had happened because of everything that had

Went on obviously I was very angry and rightly so I couldn’t understand why this was allowed to happen and she woke up the day before she died me and another sister were sitting at the hospital bed and she grabbed my hand and said oh it’s going to make me

Cry that I’m really really sorry that this happened to you none of it’s your fault and I’m sorry I didn’t protect you do you know that I need you to know that so I think that she knew that she was going to pass and that was the first

Time that she had ever acknowledged or said sorry it seems so little so late but I know that would meant to you and it’s a lot that you’ve had to deal with comeing to terms with them that’s saying and as a kid and we know this from children they blame so

Much no don’t be you know one thing never say sorry for some emotion it’s not it’s nothing to be sorry about what’s up please down here for you hearing that what what did that mean to you everything because before then I thought she doesn’t care you know she

Cares more about these people who had abused me particularly the last one um because he admitted it to her that he had done it to her and an aunt in the family and they stood by him and I could never understand it and I thought do she not

Love me that much that you know because as a mother myself I couldn’t understand cuz I would walk over hot coals for my kids so I couldn’t understand it and to hear her say that just validated in some way for some people for for me it it’s

Just at the moment of listening to all the things that she’s allowed there’s an anger there and I be like that’s too little too late you should have showed up when that four-year-old was crying out you should have been there and I’m not taking away from that

Because I know you’ve had to live a life of of of all these things and a child being held prisoner and you need someone to know that you know it was their fault and it wasn’t your fault and and to some people that that just that bit of peace

Helps the healing but there and some people would say how’s this happened how these people Sude vulnerable people yeah positions like this so people are like how can people be victims of multiple because these people were now actively seeking out yeah vulnerable situations vulnerable children and you were

Obviously that and this was a house where you had people coming and going kids left on their own no adults around fending for our eles basically and there would have been parties every night people getting drunk out of their minds so my mom probably didn’t know half the

Time what was going on around her because she was drunk out of it and the same you know for my dad so these people knew you know this is a household where you know we’re going to get away with us because there’s nobody looking after these kids there’s

Nobody watching right and as I say my mom is a really vulnerable woman as well and I want to say you know and it’s taken me lots of therapy and lots of work on myself to get to this point cuz I was angry I’m still angry but a mother

Is the first attachment that you have when you come in to this world and you depend on them so when you come in you are born to attach to that person and it’s not an easy thing to separate from and people don’t understand I still love

My mom because she’s my mom and she wasn’t all bad but I don’t like the things that she’s done and I don’t forgive the things she’s done but I still love her and people find that hard to understand but you can have both cuz not everybody is all bad or all one

Thing and you know what that and I I I don’t entirely get it but I know what you’re saying and and you know that nobody can tell you how things are supposed to be and it’s just sometimes for us when we hear this one off we get

Angry and we’re like and I’m going to tell you this my honest feeling straight away was anger towards mom because it was the person that was to protect you didn’t and I’m not saying and I I you’re right if you you have love but you know that that’s and and people listening

Will have stood away anger but that’s your complex relationship with your mother and none of us are are for the judge or or or I just sometimes respond and I don’t respond well because I I hear the Sweet Child and I hear these stories and I want to reach in and and I

Get angry so I I start to look for who and that’s this is what happens but it’s not one situation so but it it it did continue on but yeah and but it wasn’t just we we’re talking these are very serious sexual abuse but we’re talking neglect like not been cared for proper

Food clothing you know and you can see now you know my teeth and it’s something I’m really embarrassed about but we had never had our teeth brushed and like I have teeth and all missing and it’s something That’s embarassing and you’re going to the dentist and you’re thinking oh God what

Are they thinking are they thinking I’m this dirty CL that hasn’t you know looked after my teeth but it comes from growing up in a household of neglect but even the shame around that you know because that’s always there your teeth and your smile um but it’s from

Neglect and then you know that that what way did that transition you moving into teenager you’ve been a victim of these how are you and your siblings mhm are you worried for your siblings here this house is you know and and the things that’s going on

And I’m not sure maybe you don’t want to talk about that but like had they experienced similar yeah yeah yeah they have as well not all my siblings it’s the older ones um obviously experienced all these things as well and I basically raised my siblings from no age I

Remember I don’t know what age I was but I remember my mom must have been off on one of our binges my mom and dad off on their binges and they could have been away for days and I remember being hungry and you know my little brother who’s no longer

With us um being hungry and having to climb up on this stool to try and get into the cupboard and having dry corn flakes cuz that’s all we could find so I raised them it was me that was with them every Day and you know I would have run away from home a lot of the time and you know I say to people you you probably don’t know cuz you’re from up this direction but the new large Flats big tall Flats that’s where I used to run away to because they had a rubbish

Shirt now there was no window in it it was open but it was somewhere with a roof over the head and I had a younger sibling who used to obviously follow me and she had to run away with me but you know you’d have been away for a couple

Of hours and then you’d be set afraid of cuz obviously there’s a few dodgy characters around there of going you know and better going back to what I know because I don’t feel safe here either there was no Escape for for us as children no the cycle discontinu no no

And I don’t know if I should say this but I think it’s important because a lot of young people I work with and with sexual abuse and rape especially when it’s within the family there’s a lot of Shame around it so sometimes when you’re a kid in my situation and you have no

Control over your life you know the abuse is going to happen whether you want it to or not every day every single day there wasn’t a day that it didn’t happen so in order to have some sense of control over that me and one of my siblings would have went and went let’s

Go to him now and get this over and done with and I know there’s a lot of Shame around that but it was the only way we could control because you’d have been lying there in your bed I still actually can’t sleep with any light at all in a

Landon because if a door opens or I see any light it reminds me of someone coming into my room and I can’t cope with it so instead of us laying there for hours going oh my God he’s going to come her W he coming listening for every

Creek on the landing it was better for us at that time to go we’ll go to him and get this over with and then you could go to sleep that’s I can’t comprehend you know can’t I can’t mind can’t I know exactly what you’re saying and I know that’s a

Cop you know it’s it’s like great if this is over none with but yeah for me listening that I can’t my mind’s struggling till but it’s awful but I am glad that you’ve had the courage to say that because there will be so many our people that that situation happened and

To say that I want you didn’t go you’ve been that abused and not Twisted that this is the way this was created but that would be hard for people afterwards to have that courage to say yeah that you know you didn’t you didn’t perpetrate any of this you didn’t create

This situation but this has become a more survival and that’s really where we’re at now that to to protect yourself and way yeah like that’s the level of abuse for I at and it’s very so like for some people it’s it’s so hard for us to it’s so Twisted but I understand the

Logic it’s so Twisted but I get it but it’s a reality for Lots y lots of people where this is happening in their homes yeah and and and like you you you beat down that far let’s get the be side of the road let’s get the physical side of

The road you know and and it’s it’s it’s so sick and it’s really hard but a lot of people will never some people when they come forward and they tell things sometimes they tell it awful things but sometimes there’s certain we Things They just never because they just were like I

Don’t want to say that or I don’t want to and well a lot of people are going to be like that was the same for me yeah and I want to take the shame away from that because there is no shame as you say you know you’re groomed and the

Abuse has happen happening every day and you hear people saying about emotional abuse or people in domestic violent relationships anding sometimes you know getting hit is nearly easier than taking the emotional abuse so lying there for ours on and terrified sitting in that you know if you can imagine and I do a

Training thing with professionals trying to get them into the mindset of the child with balloons and blindfolding them with pins and going up and saying I’m going to burst someone’s blown I don’t actually do it but walking up behind them to get them into that and you’re holding that

In your body that terrified State and for me that was much worse than actually going and just getting it over with cuz then there was a bit of relief and then at what age did you confront this and and say that this was happening at this at this point and I

Know we we have went social services and teachers at this point but as a young person you’ve learned that even speaking out it’s not helping so what age at this point did you come forward as you got older so there there was another point so I’ll have to go back at around age

16 um one of my sister’s daries was found detailing um horrific abuse by someone else in the family and I can’t get into what that relationship is um cuz it would identifi by the person um and that was taken to the place it got as far as court and that

Included lots of my siblings including my brother who isn’t here anymore um so it had went to court went to Carnival did the whole place interview but I was thought to be the strongest witness at that point um and I remember having to go into this room a really narrow narrow

Room like probably half of this table to the back of there really small and faced in front of four men in suits and told to tell in detail about what had happened to me I be in mind I had been abused by four males in my life and I

Suddenly I was sat in front of these four me males in suits and asked to explain in detail I crumbled I couldn’t do it and they threw the court case out and I was told told by police as well that it was my fault that this didn’t go

To court it was my fault that he got away with this um now criminal compensation money was paid out to my siblings not that that makes up for anything so they were believed but it was through out of course on the basis that I couldn’t sit in front of these

Four men until in graphic detail I they were about this away from me I just felt intimidated it it now first and foremost I can’t you know for a police officer to tell a child that they to blame for this is absolutely disgusting the short Falls

In our legal system is to blame for these people getting away and for anybody to turn around and tell you that it’s disgusting because the people say words in these situations and do things and they don’t realize the lasting effect that this can have now I understand frustration and people when

They want to conict these people and I get that’s what it was frustration but but then they should have done a better job they should have had females D with a young female but back then it wasn’t it look we we we have covered extensively and we covered with Hy too

The the legal systems the the the Draconian the way it’s set up and how it comes about it’s it’s it’s not a you people think and this is the problem right I’m going to say this with and I’m very much that person yeah I bury my

Head in the sand I don’t want to hear Bad stories I never used to take this on so I didn’t know how it worked I didn’t know how these things happen but here’s the realities of our system it’s outdated yeah they don’t know how to speak to children they don’t know how to

To comfort uh victims they not only yeah they needed you as a witness but they need to support you they needed to offer support you you you are a victim in this yeah so for them to hinge that on that and this is the problem we now know they

Know everyone knows this person done this you don’t pay compensation to people that are that are T and and I’m not because I have no point I believe it but everyone knows it but the systems failed again and this is time and time and time again and obviously now from

What you’ve discussed and people will have obviously picked up on it you’ve obviously studied this in depth and and you’re not a social worker yourself you work with children you you have now you got the clinical knowledge so that’s how you can better explain the points of where you

Were at but you’re 16 now and you’ve this diary has been found detailing horrific sexual abuse you’re the the head of the family for for your siblings you’re looking after them you braised them where does that leave a 16-year-old like imagine a police officer telling them that like it’s it’s it’s disgusting

Now and they’ walked away flippantly and never remember they’ve ever said this yeah but what did that what was the the come of all of that I just felt really guilty and shamed like it’s my fault I’ve let my siblings down everybody hates me you know because this person’s got away with it

Um now I knew it wasn’t my fault but at the time I just felt horrific my mom blamed me because I don’t know what it was about this person but she more wanted him put away at the time don’t know if I’m allowed to say this but he was taken by paramilitaries at

The time arranged by my mother and someone else at the time and given a severe beting and I was made to listen to that tap off that Beaton um what sort of uh I know and and I want to be respectful but what sort of mindset was your mother that she thought

This was going to be healing for you you know I get and you know what I I don’t cond well I would condone violence in certain situations 100% B is the sort of person I am I know what I’d like to do people like that and a bullet would have

Been too easy for them but was there any sort of now looking back is there any sort of comfort knowing the people know people do know that this is that they knew that he done that you know in the court of opinion he didn’t he didn’t get that if people thought he

Wasn’t but to a certain degree I still feel angry that I haven’t got any convictions and I’m going to say it here one of the people is living with a woman and kids right now at this present moment in time and that makes me angry as hell um

Because you know he’s not only abused me he’s abused other people within my family but yet he’s living with a woman and kids and nothing is being done and are you able is there a position where you can inform the police or social services to I have but because

There’s no conviction I’m with a particular one um and I know I’m a way bit all over the place here so I reported again myself when I had my son I had my son at 21 so it was around 2122 when I had him and this man was

Still around and as a mother I didn’t want this man anywhere near so just I and I know because I just want to clarify and and no no no don’t don’t be sorry at all because I know for you diving into this it’s it’s as we’ve

Already said it’s over the place and for some people listen this just to clear up now yeah when you were younger the prolific as a different abuser there was when you were seven that was a different the one we were talking about with your sister and siblings was a separate one

But this person now we moved on to speak about was in a position of trust yeah close no one to your family Y and abused you from age 12 from age 12 mhm and is now is this the person who received the bating no it was the person who received

The beating was abusing throughout yes my LIF span but I’m afraid of giving names and and and we don’t want to and and you know I I’d love to out every single one of these so would I and but I can’t no and and I get that and and we

Don’t know sometimes the ramifications of not of of what comes out and what goes out and and you know what people are going want to know so I’m happy enough that people will know but just for the keep up right so this this person now mhm I don’t want to number

The more thing but say we’re moving on tonight this this person here we’re discussing this person was very close to the family and had been abusing you over a period of years mhm they’re now in position of trust in another family mhm and your fear is obviously for the

Children yeah because this this Le lepers don’t change their spots these are predators calculated and that’s one thing we want to say one thing I’ve learned which I never want to learn but one thing maybe is appropriate this is the these people groom the family first and the people

Surrounding absolutely like the last person is the victim that’s been groom yeah because they have to get themselves in that position of trust to do that and they’re well vered in grooming everyone around them building that trust L you know getting space alone with kids now it’s way bit different in my house

Because you know nobody was looking after the kids and everybody easier yeah it was easier but there is still an element of grooming everybody else around that child and that family even things like going to schools and meetings they come across as this really current person that’s looking after

These kids and nobody suspects that they’re doing anything and sometimes you know because I had been abused before you know there’ll be lots of distress in these abusers but actually they’re doing the same things yeah and you know I actually recently seen another thing in the paper and the the judge actually

Says you have a standard up written mhm you you you seek out families with an older woman that has children yeah to bet trust them to put yourself in a position the trust it’s not like this is oneoff and a lot of victims here will be

Like that’s the way that happened to me and this is the way they spoke about other people when they in fact with the person that was perpetrating us so it’s not like you think and then when you start speaking to other people and hearing our victims you’re like that’s the same they

They have a very similar operating and a pattern there’s always a pattern to the abuse as well you know initially it starts out with you know these tries in my house it was threats cuz no one I was afraid of my mom so it would have been

Threats of you know a few tell anyone this is going to happen to you um and that was a very real threat um so I was more afraid but they do things it’s threats like giving bribes or giving you things after go well sure you know I give you that and

You wanted that didn’t you because I had given you this my brains W see traa brain but that’s all manipulation it’s all to manipulate you to manipulate the family to paint this picture of they being a good guy but or girl yeah and and it does happen females can be the

Perpetrator as well but that’s what predators do and it doesn’t matter where it’s in the household we spoke to other guests and been in the church a predator is a predator they seek out vulnerable people they gain the trust yeah and then to commit these heinous acts yeah

And it just it frustrates me so much just even you’re saying about sitting down and I know I’m bringing back to sitting in front of the four policemen and I S right saying it was different at that time it shouldn’t have been any any different it it should have been set up

To help you and to make sure like I don’t go and get a chimy sweep till doing my Plumbing the right people are doing the right job they am four guys that were sitting there should never been doing that job should never been set up to do it that way and like

The feelings that there is then I just hope that you you learn from your mistakes yeah but to turn around afterwards and say that that was your fault in some way that you never spoke up maybe you’re even speaking to me about stuff that might be a we bit you

Know she might want to go and speak to her mommy instead she’s my daughter yeah and there’s way things she’s like and I’m like Pat you always talk to me always say these things to me so go and say not the complete stranger it just

Angers me so much so it does yeah and at the time even with that and not the compensation means anything but just to highlight how far it actually went in terms of putting the blame on a 16 17y old so it come out at 16 but it was 17

By the time the court was coming through all my siblings were put in for compensation but I was told you don’t deserve any because you wouldn’t go and stand up in court my compensation and my siblings will tell you the same it does not take away anything and in fact a lot

Of them just spent and pissed up the wall because it felt like dirty money to them like they were being paid for what happened and they all said that but just to put that extra layer of blame on you don’t deserve so that that that’s different for me there and and I suppose

I’m asking you to comment on on your siblings behalf but to me when I was listening that I was like was the compensation any sort of vindication but it’s not because you didn’t get no that and and that was probably a navity on my point because and we have feelings on this

Because we’re not we’re not first on this so it probably I was like a compensation that shows that the the person was guilty well I’m the opposite I’m the total opposite I’m like what are you putting a price in this are you putting a price on what being off yes

Where most of us want a conviction we want someone to be held to account for what what they’ve done you know because it makes you feel like an as my sister said it makes me feel like a prostitute like I’ve been paid for services rendered but we want convictions I’m

Sorry because that that and and that’s this is just why I ask these questions sometimes I was like right well then that shoot but it’s it’s nearly a slap in the face then it’s an insult yeah it is an insult you know we want Justice we

Want people to say they were guilty and were the victim yeah were the feelings were there but I have to ask you sometimes in these situations I don’t I can never do do you know was your mother aware of this actively going on and brigh her head or turn to Blind

Eye I sometimes get angry we we’ve had situations where the facilitator or the perpetrator sometimes I be every bit as angry with the facilitator you know that these situations were like to happen and I know I’ve come back to that cuz I don’t want to you know it’s a very

Complex and a personal relationship with your mother and she’s not here so I don’t I I don’t want to push you in that and but when that was happening and you’re now 16 year older you’re aware you’ve been to court now you knew what was you know what was happening to you

Yeah and you’re now aware and you were always were but you’re now older that that people are saying this was wrong was happened did you Point say that happened me Mom that person done this you know they done this and this person what did they say when they were asked did they

Admit the P yes cuz that was the bit in the tape the recording of the bating of admitting that they had done it um but it was always admitted and it’s used with quite a lot of the abusers always drinking at the time see there there was times and even in

Times when you’re telling us and you would say it was almost like you were given a reason for them people can say whatever drink or this is what and I was think that person’s that person yeah they were that person that that evilness the level of evilness was there the

Drink alow the situation yeah but it’s like that’s being accepted as an excuse you know I go out and have a drink I’m sure us do you don’t go and abuse kids so for me that being used as an excuse oh I drink in me that’s why it happened

Crap and it didn’t just happen with alcohol the first stages maybe happened with alcohol but they premeditated this that there I’m not accepting that at any point that the drink or whatever I’ll tell you this to you one time so if if I I’ll tell you if you went and talk

A drinking it made you twisted and angry and you people used to I used to hear ones going OD you know sorry it was drinking makes me twist don’t drink yeah I don’t accept that in any way as a but so then this H this been

It’s all so like you know and then you’ve been played this you’ve been played this recording what did that make you feel like when you played the recording was there Comfort or anger or or or disbelief or I felt guilty as well I felt like I was to blame for

This person being beaten because at the time I didn’t understand I was a kid thought this is my fault cuz we told this person has got this beaten and I felt really guilty you know and I know that sounds mad now and it’s mad when I think back

But I remember screaming and crying and feeling awful for this person you know yeah and I don’t think that’s that’s my because there’s a lot of victims sometimes feel guilty when their perpetrator gets sentenced so it’s it’s the level of what they’ve controlled them and and and and absolutely got into

Their mind some people actually sometimes struggled to see the person being convicted you know it’s such a twisted mindset that because they’ve gmed them that much and you know when a in a house where you have showing love and care and thing in such a warped Twisted way that someone comes along and

They’ be nice and then all of a sudden materializes they’re not you know it’s it’s just it’s s it’s so sad to see that and obviously it’s something that you and your siblings have all injured on on different levels and each has a different yeah trauma a different uh way

Of coping what happened then when you’re 16 that that be that happened this part is gone now yeah they got put out of the country out of the country yeah and you you have you any idea where they’re they’re gone I just know in England somewhere and you know what you’re right

These people hav’t been convicted there’s no record of checking them they can move in anywhere and put infiltrate thems and this is the behavior of them again and that’s the that’s the fear that they don’t get but that’s not the last of this isn’t it now no no so

Obviously um I told again after I had my son I had my son at 21 so it was around 2122 obviously as a mother I myself this person was still in our lives within the family and I just wanted to protect my child I did not want him anywhere near

My son at the time so I went to Nexus and I disclosed cuz I was too afraid who’s Nexus that’s um the sexual trauma service in Northern Ireland sorry I for all victims and survivors of sexual abuse it’s the only one in Northern Ireland which have recently got their

Funding pulled as well right yes yeah no funding at all for any child or young person in Northern Ireland for therapeutic support for sexual abuse so this was an independent body that you could go to that would speak to the police on your behalf till till well it

Was a counseling session that I was Haren I was Haren counseling at the time and I disclosed to her the name and I knew full well when I said the name that they would right just for clarity right this was a counseling service for people that have been victims of childhood

Sexual trauma yeah uh and I’ll move into the fun and second but the you had disclos when you disclosed to a counselor MH something that’s illegal they have an obligation to report that if you give the name name yes and you you at this point were aware that once

You said yeah so you’d obviously thought you know what I want to know reach out to somebody so you had disclosed this the counselor had then contacted the police for me it was I wanted to protect my child I didn’t want him there but I was too

Afraid to go to the police because of my experiences before and I was too afraid to tell my mom so I thought this would be an easier option for me and they’ take it out of my hands yeah and it it didn’t turn out that way no the police come

Out and I remember it was a female police officer and she was involved in the case that didn’t go to court before um alongside the male police officer um and she basically told me that this wouldn’t go anywhere because of the previous stuff and that there was no point plus at the

Time who was she to weigh that up because the job of deciding whatever the case is the mar now police will obviously know and they will say look we need more evidence and but the please don’t please don’t convict people so just to be clear in the in the legal

System please charge people present the evidence to the PPS the PPS then decide if this is if it’s in the public interest of it’s achievable conviction and then that’s what happens so on speaking to this police officer M and you’ve obviously have no trust or faith in them theyve failed you on several

Occasions they’ve told a 16-year-old that it was their fault when Johan rightly pointed out no their fault they didn’t secure a conviction of a detailed Diary of a sexual abuser that’s their fault to and to hinge a case on a 16-year-old that has been mult and aware to them that’s been

Multiply abused on separate occasions to hinge a case on that was on them you know so obviously when it was this person you just been deflated you you thought you would get some at some point you would get help from these people yeah and at the time so this person

Admitted to my mom and an a that he did it but said he was drunk at the time and my mom at that time couldn’t separate herself away from this person and said refused to give a statement to that effect which made me quite angry my

Siblings at the time were still at home and they were afraid to give any kind of evidence so I was told because it was only me that they couldn’t do anything and my mom wouldn’t give a statement to say he had admitted this not just my mom

My mom and an aunt in my aunt’s house admitted you know he was drunk and that’s why it happened this seems to be such an easy out at he was drunk through this heus act you’re mother now and your mind complet your mindset changes so much so you

Now what did you do did you disconnect from everyone yeah yeah well I was kind of ostracized a bit because you’re told that’s family business you shouldn’t be talking to people about that um i’ have been Spar at in the street called names called a liar um around that time I

Actually attempted to take my own life um attempted to hang myself only um my children’s father um and my partner at the time had come home looking for a wallet which he never even carried a wallet and caught me um or else I would have been gone I

Just couldn’t cope because the amount of back Flack that was coming from it and at that time I just felt how many more times can this happen going to C again you know how many more times are you not going to be believed I can’t take this anymore

Nobody is listening my own mother is taking this person’s side and I was a mother myself at the time so for me I was going I don’t get it I don’t get it and I was angry angry as and I tell people you know you get this oh you shouldn’t

Be angry and you should forgive to hell with that it’s all right to be angry and I was angry really really angry at a you know Found the courage to shout at my mom back you know I did ask her did what did she get for

Us was over a bottle of foda because you know how does this keep happening and at one point I remembered my mom used to come in to me and my sister’s room looking for this person and I’m going she had to have known why would you do that why would

You come into the room looking for this person if you didn’t know why would he be in our room that has been in my mind as we’ve had this conversation that and I know this isn’t this isn’t somebody had your mom been facilitating this not actively maybe not like

Progressively but if this was happening and and it was repeatedly happening that at some point she 100% knew and 100% knew you’re telling the truth but when you told the truth it wasn’t them you were exposing MH it was her you were exposing because while you’re telling

The truth the truth of the matter is that your mom to everyone now has failed you her going away and getting one of the abusers of beaten makes her look the great person and oh you know she made a mistake but she’s now she’s looking Revenge yeah but this

Time and we’ve seen you getting emotional you’ve got emotional more the afterthought of the the Vindication the Bel you know the speaking of the trauma we we’ve detached from that happened but it’s why did why was this allowed to happen to me and and why why the one

Person once you become a mother you realize the one person that should have stopped all this didn’t and that’s the harder thing of this and that’s the for me it was the hardest thing to stomach in that is why the people that should have stepped in now I know there’s

Feelings in the system the system is and it’s still and we talk about all it’s different it’s still letting people down day in day out they’re still unprofessional now one thing I want to say is the officers they’re so it’s there’s officers there and we that are

So unprofessional and they shouldn’t be in that job and Sean’s right they shouldn’t be but they’re also now we’ve come and spoke to someone that’ve been an angel to them and and and it’s changing and and and they put the you know and and like the police I

Don’t have any great love of them but some of the ones that are in that job now are the people the The Compassion they have and they’re they they get so irate that they can’t convict these people and and they’re so but to me it’s so so sad that that you

Were failed so many times and people will be like how do this and and it’s a we but because your trauma and it’s it is complex it is complex how did you begin then once you you decided you wanted to go down this line and you you

Know now the passion you want to protect people you want to help people that’s there because you didn’t get that yeah when you were training for that did that open that what opened a lot of because you first thing you have to work on is yourself and you started identifying

Them how was that when you started training for that and then becoming aware of all the things happen to address to him well I had started working on myself so after my mom passed in 2007 I had left school with no qualifications because I was told I would never amount anything I couldn’t

Possibly be normal because all this awful stuff had happened it obviously left school with no qualifications cuz I had no capacity to learn I was built on Surviving the situation I was in so you know I was off the rails for years you know just struggling with mental health

Um in toxic relationships but when my mom passed in 2007 and obviously I got that validation from her I just thought you know what life’s too short and on the same week I actually met one of the perpetrators in town and I put my head down and run the

Other direction cuz I was terrified and I was angry at the time cuz I thought he still has that power over me um so I went and I started working on myself um had to go back obviously from scratch do gcss the whole haape um going to

Counseling at the same time and then I get into social work um and the first job I got was working with young people with sexual trauma and it horrified me that this was still going on and I know from doing that job see the numbers of being

Reported it’s way more than that and these kids you know are still being let down you know there’s not enough Services out there kids are still being told and parents being told because this has happened to your child their life’s over you know they’re damaged but they’re not

They’re not yes it affects you I’m not saying it doesn’t and not everybody needs or wants therapeutic support after but many people do and they should be given it you know we aren’t determined by someone else’s actions or what they’ve done you know because I’ve been

Raped and abused from the age of four that means I’m never going to amount to anything I’m never going to achieve my life’s over and people are giving that message day in and day out but that is not the case if they are given the right support and I think when I work

With young people that’s one of my biggest passions cuz they do come in feeling well that’s me now and you’re going no that’s not you you know what my Mantra is they’ve taken enough of my life they’re not getting anymore who are there to say what you can en count to

Simple as that yeah but that is I I love I love that you’re that light for others now because you know something when people are in an awful dark position and that and dark position it seems so stupid the way I say that but you can go on to have a happy life

You can go on to have a happy safe family that you w provided you can go on to have love you can experience love with people proper love not you know and this is the thing you can go on and have education now there’s no possibility of an abused child being

They do but I mean to have a mind to sit in the class no you you’re not even you’re trying to to to survive as you said but to go back and to do that and to take back your power take back your control you were a victim and you were

Abused but you haven’t let that Define the entire and to say that to other people that’s that that think that they can define define your life it’ll always be with you yeah but you’re now controlling where you’re going from here you know you’re helping people you’re you’re back helping that we child that

They didn’t help yeah and you know in in that to me there’s there there’s light for people and there’s people listening to this that haven’t spoke out who were victims they haven’t spoke to anyone and they they’ve allowed it and and the we know this because the suicide rate for

People that have been victim of sexual assault is five or six times more like I I’m not and I’m not hold but I remember reading it that so we know that there’s so many people think there’s no future and there but but there is and you’ve

Went and you’ve went the long road and you went back to school and you doing it and you know now and there must be great sense when you’re helping them people now letting them know that speaking to young children not great and you know what I mean a reward it must be

Rewarding to help people it is I wouldn’t I couldn’t see myself doing any other job um and when I first got in to social work I didn’t think I was going to work with children I thought I was going to work with people with disabilities cuz that’s what I did in my

Job but then fell into that job and could just see these kids you know I remember kids crawling under hiding under the chair and I said suppos it took me back to me being that way small kid I’m working with them and seeing them come out the other side you know is

Something I can’t even put into words I think even with kids cuz nobody tells them about the whole storm that comes out after you disclose when you sit and you’re ra with kids and you know I know there’s a way bit of mixed messages around should you share your

Stuff and as a social worker i’ have been told don’t disclose too much I don’t run about telling everybody everything that happened to me but sometimes it’s appropriate to let kids know you’re not on your own here and you’re not determined to this it’s not going into

The details but I get a way bit of I don’t know all of your stuff and I don’t understand all of what’s happened to you but I get it yeah and for them I think oh we’ve had this in different situations when sometimes you’re giv advice and people

Are like what do you know yeah and you’re like you’d be surprised what I know and and showing up with humility and I do understand I’m not empathizing with with you yeah I I know yeah so I do think that you know and it’s it is amazing what you’re doing because for so

Many it would be very triggering and I’m sure sometimes it is triggering you hear stories so similar and close to the Bone it’s very triggering and and you know I know I’d say you’re being professional with them but when you’re going home you have it you have that and

It must be hard how do you disconnect with and how do you do you pe support or what way do you deal with that so obviously I have to be more aware because of my own experiences when I’m working with young people because you always have to be sure that you don’t do

Any more harm to anyone else so I have a clinical supervisor that I see um with all my cases and we talk about things so you’re talking about cases of you know what’s going on is that bringing anything up for you what’s going on there so you’re always getting

Into things cuz sometimes things do kind of align with your own stuff as a counselor as well I have to have my own therapy but before I trained as a counselor and was doing Social Work social workers don’t get clinical supervision or counseling I went and sought that myself because I was so

Fearful of something coming up and maybe doing more damage to a young person so I have counseling every week on clinical supervision to make sure I didn’t know that uh social workers don’t get clinical supervision no no so they’re putting to S to speak to some of the

People in the wor and they have no peer support in in to look after them to have them process that when they go home no if just so people know when the clinical supervis it’s it’s more for you to disclose with obviously someone’s trained and and for you to disclose your

Your workload and how it’s affecting you and and and more con session as as in you know or I it’s this r or or yes and but you put that as a fa safe because you’re you know there is bound to be times it comes and waves you know you’re

Out and you’re helping but then there’s just the times with the so much trauma you’ve experienced you just having lows yeah and I know myself you know cuz I’ve done enough work work on myself so I know if I’m going through a period where something’s happening and I’ll give you

An example over lockdown so when lockdown happened for want of a better word I lost my and I was working with sexual trauma at the time and obviously lots of people weren’t seeing kids so there was a lot of pressure being put on you know we have to still see these kids

And I was saying I’m not okay here I’m not okay and my clinical Supervisor was you need to take time off from work so I to take eight months out but that’s because when lockdown happened you were being retriggered so again I was put back in that position of having no par feeling

Trapped um and isolated from everyone and then the masks you know for me was that being pushed into a mattress and not being able to breathe so it it was bringing up huge things the whole trust thing who could you could trust cuz someone might have Co everybody’s

Keeping distance so it brought up mountains of stuff for me and I had to come out of work for eight months and had to do intense therapy I actually asked for mental health support at the time I rang the GP this is another bug bear of mine and I know it’s just the

Way it is because there’s no funding there’s no services and I was told if I didn’t take medication that I was refusing a treatment plan but as I said to the GP if I take medication yes medication works for some people but dissociation and avoidance has been my

Thing and if I take medication I’m going to be avoiding and I don’t want to do that I want to work in this do you know I’m still waiting on that waiting list for support from Co 4 years yeah now lucky enough I can pay for my own therapy now but I’m still

Waiting everywhere you’ve went you’ve been filed if what what is what is the future plans then now for you what is to continue obviously with your social work are you doing any social media work in this so what I have um have been doing um I did set up a charity previously

With a couple of other girls um to support children and young people impacted by sexual trauma but I’m not part of that anymore so I’m working as an independent therapist but I also work with monst toown Boxing Club who are amazing and do so much in the community

For young people so I provide one toone therapeutic support and that includes young people impacted by sexual abuse and sexual trauma um I do not time limit my service because again some of the services that are out there are 6 to 12 sessions and I’m telling you now that is not enough

For anyone who’s been impacted by any kind of trauma or sexual trauma it’s not enough you haven’t even built Trust so young people are going to end getting six 12 sessions and then being told we can’t open you up cuz you know we only have so many sessions so then again

They’re getting that message God I’m so messed up even the professionals can’t work with me so I very strict when I get referrals from social services that I am not doing 6 to 12 sessions it’s for as long as a young person needs it now that comes with complications cuz obviously

You know there’s only so much funding and they’re going to go with a person who can give them 6 to 12 sessions at a smaller cost but that doesn’t work cuz you’re getting the revolving door people in and out of services cuz no’s going in depth

Now the boxing club I work with they offer longterm however long a young person needs it and that’s funded by the lottery um and young people do not want to come in and see me like they don’t want to come in and sit with me for an

Hour a week but they’re coming they’re showing up every week and they will only come for as long as you need it and see when you give people the support the proper indepth support they need they don’t come back they might come back for

A top up and I leave an open door as well so if someone’s engaged with me before even in my previous job with the charity that is no longer providing that service I still allow those young people to come back to me because when they reach different developmental mind

Milestones or you know become a parent themselves things start to come up again which is normal so I give that open door policy recogniz and this can happen and you touched on it and Sean said it I didn’t I wasn’t aware of this there’s no funding no all funding has

Been pulled for children and young people in Northern Ireland there is currently nothing Nexus were providing that but they lost their funding so we’re raising awareness with all these campaigns going on you know around child sexual exploitation telling people to come forward but no no no plan and place for

Them no safy that after and trust me see whenever you disclose the hits the fan basically I that’s only the start yeah we’ve only opened the door pandor box as as they say you’ve let’s say only started addressing yeah and there’s no plan in place well you’ve reached out

The the Health Service can’t handle it the mental health services are stretched to the absolute limit so they they on there’s no plan in place in this country but that’s not to say to people there that that’s listening that not to reach out no not to the the start of healing it’s a

Journey on and it’s a long journey yeah but to speak to somebody to talk to somebody if you were to give advice to somebody right now that is turmoil and and and they’ve been through that and they’re sitting at home weing it up what will be your advice to them I would

Always say tell someone someone that you trust or feel safe with and if people don’t listen just keep telling keep speaking out because these people need to be held to account and it’s not right what’s happening to them they just need to keep speaking out look shelle I want to thank you

Because I the courage that I’m so so angry inside for that we fouryear old that nobody stepped in to protect and look after just take you and your siblings out lot the feelings but I’m also mindful that that’s that’s not going to be your legacy that you’re going to go on you’re

Going to help people and you’re going to help people that you won’t hear from again but you won’t know the impact that you had people are listening to this I know it’s been quite complex and and we couldn’t say names it was very hard yeah but people need to understand it is

Complex so to keep a a a timeline and it’s not like that and that’s not the way your memories have presented themselves so we we’ve you know I I just want to thank you for coming on it can’t be easy but it will help people and can I just

Say about about why I agreed to come on here so I did have a young person that approached me who had heard other stories on the podcast and in the media in terms of convictions and she was you know our voices are never heard we’re silenced for years about the abuse and

Then were silenced again because of the legal system and I you know I get innocent until proven guilty but then you’re silenced again and no one is ever being allowed to represent the massive you know numbers that aren’t getting convictions cuz it is only small numbers

And that young person asked me would I go and do this to give a voice to those who haven’t had a conviction and our society wants to stay away from things they’re not comfortable with yeah like it’s so hard for me and Sean as parents to sit and listen not as

Just as part just as a decent person anyone sit and listen to this for when you there was the line you delivered and I could feel my stomach turning when You’ said I was ripped I was F it my stomach in my and and but this is

Happening and this turning our eye and sweeping on the carpet and not putting in the media and not telling the story mhm it doesn’t help it’s it’s it we need to address so I I’m I’m so thankful for you coming on can I just say of course

As I say you know for people nobody as you say likes to hear this you know people like to read nice stories and all of that and I find sometimes things in relation to sexual abuse and rape are kind of tidied up away Way bit to make

It more bable for other people but the fact is there’s kids enduring this day and daily and nobody is sugar C it for them they are living the reality of that so I always think why should children suffer what most adults don’t even want to listen to or hear absolutely correct

You’re absolutely right and and that is a key driving force for us to have it but it it’s not an easy Liston it’s hard but it it it it is it’s going to help so many people so I just want to thank you but just as you say giving people a

Voice that aren’t fit till go speak out I think that’s that’s the message we want to deliver especially on this podcast here now that if you are going through this go and speak to somebody as you say somebody who you trust and if you’re not getting anywhere go and speak

To somebody else and keep speaking until you get that person who is going to go above and beyond to help you and times are changing people are listening no it’s not like when I was young back in the day where it was very much swept under the carpet things are better now

So I don’t want that to put people off you know do come forward and you know I work with three people at a time free of charge who can’t access services and there is other people I know for a fact out there doing that as well so if you

Can afford therapy or something reach out and ask because there are people who are offering either reduced fees or you know pro bono support and if people people did want to get in contact even with yourself you happy enough for them to reach out to you absolutely and how

Would they do that they can get me so I have a website which is creative healen do creative healen ni. co.uk or El I’m on Facebook or Instagram but my phone number and email is all on there well we’re going to include it in the description in this as well if you’re

Comfortable with that yeah and it it you know it is and even if you get neths like me me starting to learn things and you know I’m naive but I’m starting to learn things it’s important for us to get that out there so are B LNS and we

Can we can protect these children and look after because that is the the key thing at the end of the day is to protect the children but uh thank you very much Michelle Michelle thank you very much thank you thank you