France has declared it will stand with Ukraine “until victory” and support the country’s bid for NATO membership as it fights the war against Russia. On Tuesday, Feb. 20 at 12:00 p.m. ET, French ambassador to the United States Laurent Bili joins The Post’s David Ignatius to discuss the course of the conflict two years on, France’s new security agreement with Ukraine and the state of the world order.
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>> IN 2024 NATO ALLIES IN EUROPE WILL INVEST A COMBINED TOTAL OF 300 BILLION IN DEFENSE WE CAN’T WALK AWAY NOW. >> THAT’S JUST >> PRUDENT, BETTY. NOW, HE’S VERY JUST FLATLY SAID THAT >> AND IT’S REALLY A MOMENT
WHERE WHETHER UKRAINIANS NEED THAT LVI FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES, THEY NEEDED MUNITIONS AND WE HAVE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE, BUT THAT’S A KEY MOMENT WE HAVE TO PLAY THE LONG GAME IF WE WANT TO SHORTEN THE WAR WELCOME TO WASHINGTON POST
LIVE. I’M DAVID IGNATIUS, A COLUMNIST FOR THE PAST. WE’RE HONORED TO BE JOINED TODAY BY FRANCE’S AMBASSADOR TO WASHINGTON, LAW BELIEVE WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT UKRAINE, OTHER ISSUES AROUND THE WORLD MR. AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME >> SO MR. INVESTOR, LET’S BEGIN WITH THE SITUATION SURROUNDING UKRAINE. LAST WEEKEND IN MUNICH, WHERE I WAS ATTENDING THE SECURITY CONFERENCE, THE MOOD FRANKLY WAS OMINOUS WITH THE DEATH OF ALEXEY NAVALNY, THE RUSSIAN CAPTURE OF NEED
ADIIVKA EASTERN UKRAINE, AND THE FEAR THAT REPUBLICANS MAY BLOCK ADDITIONAL US MILITARY ASSISTANCE. LET’S START WITH THE DEATH OF THE COURAGEOUS NAVALNY THEY DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT, A FRENCH GOVERNMENT, BELIEVED THAT NAVALNY WAS MURDERED.
>> AND HOW DO YOU THINK >> VLADIMIR PUTIN SHOULD BE MADE TO PAY A PRICE FOR THIS TERRIBLE TRAGEDY? >> WELL, FRANCE HAS BEEN ASKING FOR FULL INVESTIGATION ON THOSE ISSUE OF THE DEATH OF NAVALNY. WE ALSO SOME Z AMBASSADOR OF
RUSSIA TO PARIS. AND, OR AMBASSADOR AS YOU MAY HAVE SEEN, WAS ON LUGANSK AS SQUARE ON THE ZELEWSKI STONE TO PAY TRIBUTE TO NAVALNY. IT’S A VERY SHOCKING DEATH. AND IT REMINDS US THAT IN TODAY’S RUSSIA, FREE SPIRIT THAT SEND TO GULAG OR
BEST-CASE SCENARIO AND TO DEATH. SO I THINK IT’S IT’S TERRIBLE SIGNAL THAT WE, THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE SUPPORT THAT WE ARE PROVIDING TO UKRAINE >> SO AS YOU KNOW, MASTER, AS
WE WERE ABOUT TO COME ON AIR, THE WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN JOHN KIRBY, ANNOUNCED THAT THE US WILL BE FORMALLY AN ANNOUNCING NEW SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA ARE RELATED IN A VALET, HIS DEATH ON FRIDAY. THIS OBVIOUSLY IS VERY FRESH NEWS, BUT I WANT
TO ASK YOU TWO THINGS WELL, FRANCE SUPPORT THIS MOVE BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS. AND AS FRANCE PLANNING ANY SANCTIONS OF ITS OWN AFTER NAVALNY’S DEATH >> WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT A STRONG
REACTION AFTER THE DEATH OF HISTORY ALEXEI NAVALNY. WE HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTING ALREADY A HUGE THANK YOU. TWO PACKS OF SANCTIONS. SO I PRUDISH. WE’D PROBABLY LOOK ON THE MATTER TO FIND FOR OVER IDS, BUT I’M NOT TO WHEN OR WHERE WE STAND
EXACTLY VARIES ALREADY SOME DECISION ON THAT RESPECT BUT JUST TO BE TO BE CLEAR FRANCE ISN’T CURRENTLY PLANNING ANY NEW >> SANCTIONS TO RESPOND TO NAVALNY’S DEATH WE MAY BE LOOKING AT IT, BUT I’M JUST IT’S VERY NEW ELEMENTS. I
DON’T HAVE MUCH TO COMMENT ON THE SUBJECT GETS IN MOVEMENT, BUT I’M CERTAINLY SHOWED THAT WE ARE NOT EXCLUDING ANY ANY POSSIBILITY ALL RIGHT. >> LET ME TURN MR. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE ON FRIDAY BEFORE TRAVELING TO MUNICH, THAT UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY
WAS IN PARIS TO SIGN A BILATERAL AGREEMENT WITH. YOUR PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON THAT WILL GIVE UKRAINE BY NEWS REPORTS 3 BILLION EURO IN ADDITIONAL MILITARY AID. >> MACRON SPOKE >> OF FRANCE MOVING TO A WAR INDUSTRY FOOTING IF OUR
AUDIENCE WATCHING NOW, A BASIC SUMMARY OF WHAT’S INCLUDED IN YOUR NEW AGREEMENT WITH UKRAINE AND WHY THIS WILL BE SIGNIFICANT, NOT JUST FOR FRANCE BUT FOR EUROPE. >> WELL, AT FIRST ONE WE HAVE TO RECALL TO THE AUDIENCE AT
ITS THREE ADDITIONAL. SO IT’S IN TOP OF THE 50 BILLION NEW PACKAGE THAT THE US DECIDED AND IT’S REALLY ABOUT FRENCH CONTRIBUTION DIRECTLY BECAUSE THE EUROPEAN UNION CONTRIBUTION IS BASICALLY AROUND 18% FROM A FRENCH TAXPAYER. THAT MU PICK A PACKAGE WILL HELP TO FINANCE
ESPECIALLY MILITARY DEVICES LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE BEEN PROVIDING IN THE PAST, WHICH INCLUDES ARTILLERY, IT SAYS OUR SYSTEM THE SCALP MISSILES, WHICH ARE BEEN QUITE EFFICIENT ON IN THE THEATER. SOME MORE TRAINING AND MUNITIONS, PRECISE MUNITIONS. SO VERY, A LOT OF
THINGS UNDER THE MAIN THING HERE IS THAT WE HAVE THAT ANNOUNCE, WHICH IS DEDICATED TO RISK, NOT ALSO ON REAL TIME TWO, UKRAINIAN DEMANDS. SO WE ARE, WE’RE NOT EXCLUDING ANYTHING ON THAT PACKAGE. IT’S THE FINANCE THAT WE ARE FOR NEXT YEAR. AND IT’S RETARGETED
TO ANSWER TO THE UKRAINIAN NEEDS SO LET ME FOCUS ON HOW QUICKLY THIS ASSISTANCE CAN BE DELIVERED, HOW QUICKLY MORE SAYS OURS AND >> OTHER ESSENTIAL WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION CAN BE IN UKRAINIAN HANDS LISTENING LAST WEEKEND SAYS LENSKI AND FOREIGN
MINISTER DMYTRO KULEBA. IT SOUNDED AS IF THE NEED IS URGENT UKRAINE IS RUNNING OUT OF AMMUNITION. ITS TROOPS HAVE TO RATION. THEY’RE ARTILLERY FIRE, AND UKRAINE’S CITIES ARE CLOSE TO BEING WITHOUT AIR DEFENSE TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE IN THOSE CITIES IN KYIV AND A
LVIV, HOW QUICKLY CAN THIS FRENCH MILITARY ASSISTANCE GET THERE ARE YOU TRYING TO ADOPT A SPECIAL PROCEDURES TO MOVE IT FAST ENOUGH THAT IT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. NOW OR IN THE COMING WEEKS AS UKRAINE STRUGGLES WITH RUSSIAN ADVANCES
FIGURE IT SAYS SO WE BOUGHT THEM TO HIGHLIGHT THAT SINCE THE LAST TWO YEAR, TWO YEARS, EUROPEANS HAVE CHANGED. WE ARE NOT ANYMORE COMING FROM VENICE. WE HAVE BEEN SPEEDING UP AND RAMPING UP OUR DEFENSE INDUSTRY. ONE OF THE KEY AND
ARTILLERY SYSTEM THAT WE DELIVER TO UKRAINE SAYS ARTILLERY WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET BY THE TIME OF PRODUCTION. WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 60 MORE WHICH ARE UNDER PREDICTION, AT THE MOMENT. WE HAVE BEEN TRIPLE OR PRODUCTION OF AMMUNITION,
BUT AT SAME TIME, I WOULDN’T GIVE WOULDN’T LIKE TO GET TO THE URGENCY THAT WE CAN DO THAT WE CAN DO WITHOUT SUPPORT OF THE US BECAUSE WHATEVER OR IF THOUGHTS ARE THE CHALLENGES ARE ENORMOUS AND IT’S NOT SO EASY TO PASS FROM HOW THESE THINGS
THAT DIVIDEND OF PEACE TO WAR. I COULDN’T MEET AND WE KNEW WE NEED TIME AND WE REALLY NEED THE U.s. SUPPORT AT THAT VERY MOMENT. BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IS DIFFICULT WE WANT TO HELP
UKRAINE. WE ARE TO DO IT NOW. WE COUNT DRAG OF FIT ANYMORE. IT’S TREASON MOMENT WHERE I ALLIES AFTER BE TOGETHER AND BRING SUPPORT TO THE UKRAINIAN NOW AND MR. BASH, LET ME ASK YOU THAT TAKE THAT A STEP FURTHER. THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES IS CONSIDERING THE SUPPLEMENTAL MILITARY AID REQUEST EVERYONE SAYS THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE 300 VOTES TO PASS IT. IF IT CAN GET THE FLOOR, WHAT’S THE MESSAGE THAT YOU WAS THE AMBASSADOR OF FRANCE REPRESENTATIVE OF ONE OF OUR KEY ALLIES, WOULD SEND TO
REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO MAY BE OPPOSING THIS PACKAGE TO TRY TO CONVINCE THEM TO TAKE ACTION I THINK FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO RECALL AGAIN THAT IT’S NOT A REGIONAL ISSUE. IT’S NOT A EUROPEAN ISSUE. IT’S A CHALLENGE OF OUR GENERATION THERE IS NO SCENARIO
IN THAT WAR WHERE RUSSIAN, WHEN AS A US DON’T LOSE THAT’S A GREAT KIT. IT’S ABOUT ALSO THE LEGACY OF THE GREATEST GENERATION WE HAVE BEEN LEAVING INCENTIVE 75 YEARS OF PEACE THANKS TO THE RULE-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER. THANKS TO NATO AND ITS LEGACY THAT WE
HAVE TO PROTECT. AND THAT’S PROTECTING THAT LEGACY TODAY. IT’S SUPPORTING UKRAINE, WHICH IS FIGHTING WITH FIGHTING FOR ALL VALUES. WERE STRUGGLE FOR THEIR FREEDOM. AND WHAT IT WAS A FORCE THAT WE ARE DOING ARE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE ONE
WE’RE FIGHTING FOR US FOR OUR VALUES, WHICH ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES. AND SOMETIMES PAYING THE PRICE OF YOUR LIFE. THAT THE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS AS UKRAINE POPULATION, WHICH ARE BOUND ALSO BY OUTRAGEOUS ATTACK TO THE CIVILIAN POPULATION BY THE RUSSIAN FORCES SO LET ME ASK
ONE QUESTION. YOU SPOKE EARLIER FRANCE’S NEW BILATERAL COMMITMENTS IN UKRAINE OF AN ADDITIONAL 3 BILLION EUROS. AND THE THINGS YOU’RE DOING TO MOVE AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN. BUT HONESTLY IF THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT JOIN IN THIS EFFORT WITH ADDITIONAL MILITARY AID,
>> IS IT GOING TO BE POSSIBLE FOR UKRAINE TO CONTINUE AND TO SURVIVE IN THIS WAR AGAINST RUSSIAN ATTACKS. WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> WE’D PREFER NOT TO CONSIDER THAT THAT TENTATIVE. I THINK UKRAINIAN NEEDLE LPS VIA FIGHTING COURAGEOUSLY TWO YEARS
AGO VERY FEW OBSERVERS WILL HAVE GUESSED THAT WE WILL BE STILL WHERE WE ARE TODAY WITH SOME OF THE STRATEGIC DEFEAT OF RUSSIA, WITH NOTABLE TO TAKE KYIV WITH SWEDEN AND FINLAND JOINING NATO. >> SO
>> WE HAVE NOW TWO TO FINISH THE JOB AFTER TWO YEARS AND AID UKRAINE TO STAND. AND IT’S REQUIRES ABSOLUTELY. THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO THAT. US SUPPORT SOMETIME A YEAR THAT WE WISH IF IT’S SO IMPORTANT FOR EUROPEAN, WE SHOULD EMPTY OR
KEVIN, WE ARE EMPTYING OR KEVIN WE ARE DOING A LOT BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE KNOW ALSO ARE LIMITS THAT THE DIFFERENCE ALSO FOR US IS THAT WE ARE REALLY ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO THE INDIRECTLY TO SAY TO THE US
BECAUSE LIKE WHAT WE CALL THE PEACE FACILITY OR FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION 60% OF WHAT WE GIVE TO UKRAINE VIEW THAT FACILITY IS GOING BACK TO THE US. SO IT’S WE ARE ALSO IN A DIFFERENT POSITION, Z ONLY INDUSTRIAL, MILITARY BASE,
WHICH IS ABLE TO DELIVER AT THE SPEED AT THE LEVEL THAT IT’S NEEDED. IT’S THE US ONE, BUT IT’S NOT SO KIND OF CONTRIBUTION TO US ECONOMY >> SO THE SIAVASH ARE RETURNING TO THE DETAILS OF FRANCE AND OTHER EUROPEAN ASSISTANCE TO
UKRAINE AFTER PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY VISITED PARIS, HE WENT ON TO GERMANY TO SEE PRIMARY MR. SCHULTZ AND MADE A SIMILAR BILATERAL AGREEMENT WITH GERMANY, ZELENSKYY SPOKE OF THOSE TWO AGREEMENTS I’M QUOTING HIM HERE AS A NEW SECURITY ARCHITECTURE FOR
UKRAINE AND NEW OPPORTUNITIES THESE ADDITIONAL EFFORTS COME ON TOP OF THE EXTENSIVE EUROPEAN UNION OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE THAT YOU SPOKE OF EARLIER, THE 50 BILLION EUROS. AND THOSE DISCUSSION OF THESE NEW EFFORTS AS BEING IN EFFECT
>> SO >> LONG AS UKRAINE IS NOT PART OF NATO >> SO >> THE QUESTION THAT I WANT TO RAISE WITH YOU IS GIVEN THE LEVEL OF EUROPEAN SUPPORT TO UKRAINE, BOTH ECONOMICALLY AND MILITARILY AND GIVEN HOW
CRUCIAL UKRAINE IS TO THE FUTURE OF EUROPE, WHY NOT MOVE QUICKLY TO MAKE UKRAINE PART OF EUROPEAN UNION AND PART OF NATO? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WHEN I SPOKE ABOUT 50 BILLION EUROS, IT WAS A NEW PACKAGE, BUT TOTAL
THAT WE HAVE BEEN SPENDING ALREADY BEFORE THE 50 BILLION IS 100 BILLIONS. SO IT’S A REAL IMPORTANT COUNTRY CONTRIBUTION THAT EUROPE HAS BEEN SPENDING ANY NOT TIMES. THE US IS A CRITIC QUESTION OF ENLARGEMENT TO NATO AND TO END
TO THE EU. EU WE HAVE TAKEN THE DECISION TO START AS A NEGOTIATION AND I THINK IT WAS A VERY CLEAR AND POSITIVE MESSAGE THAT WE STAND BY UKRAINE AND WE DON’T SEE ANOTHER FUTURE FOR UKRAINE TO BE PART OF THE EUROPEAN
COMMITTEE TO THE EUROPEAN IAN SO NATO ENLARGEMENT IS A BIT MORE TRICKY. WE ARE WE ARE IN FAVOR OF UKRAINE JOINING NATO, BUT IT’S POSE SOME REAL QUESTIONS TO THE NEW MEMBER WHEN THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON. AND ALSO IT’S SO A QUESTION
ABOUT THE MESSAGE THAT WE SEND. RUSSIA HAVE BEEN VERY GOOD THAT SELLING TO THE SO-CALLED GLOBAL SOUTH THAT THE EXPANSION OF NATO WAS REAL. REASON OF THE WAR AND EFFECTOR. RUSSIA WAS HAVING A DEFENSIVE WAR. SO SOMEHOW WE ARE FUELING, WE WILL BE FUELING THAT NARRATIVE IF WE
WEAR GOING IN THAT DIRECTION. >> BUT I HAVE NO >> DOUBT THAT ANYWAY, HISTORY IS CLEAR AND UKRAINE WOULD BE PART OF NATO SO I JUST WANT TO UNDERLINE THAT THAT. HOWEVER MORE ON IT TAKES. >> AS YOU LOOK AT THIS, AS YOUR
GOVERNMENT IN PARIS LOOKS AT THIS, UKRAINE WILL SOMEDAY BE A MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND WILL SOMEDAY BE A MEMBER OF NATO. IS THAT, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? >> CERTAINLY AS IT WILL CHANGE OUR TWO YEARS AGO. THAT WAS
ALSO AN EVERY STRATEGIC DEFEAT FOR RUSSIA TO MISREAD OR OUR DETERMINATION. AND I DON’T SEE A FUTURE FOR UKRAINE, WHICH IS THAT BEING PART OF EUROPEAN UNION >> ANOTHER THEME THAT WAS PROMINENT AT LAST WEEKEND’S SECURITY CONFERENCE IN MUNICH
WAS WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE AS AN EFFORT TO PROTECT THE TRANSATLANTIC ALLIANCE AND TO PROTECT EUROPE FROM THE POSSIBILITY THAT DONALD TRUMP, WHO WAS EXPRESSED GREAT SKEPTICISM ABOUT NATO, HAS THREATENED THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT A TAX ON NATO COUNTRIES
THAT DIDN’T PAY ENOUGH MONEY FOR THEIR DEFENSE TO IN EFFECT TRUMP PROOF >> THE ALLIANCE. I WANT TO >> POSE THIS QUESTION THAT WAS SET TO US BY A MEMBER OF OUR AUDIENCE >> DAVID IN MARYLAND. AND HE
ASKED IT THIS WAY, IF TRUMP WINS THE NEXT ALIVE SECTION AND PULLS OUT OF NATO WILL NATO REMAINS STRONG ENOUGH TO CARRY ON UNTIL THE NEXT US ELECTION WHEN PRESUMABLY AND OTHER PRESIDENT WOULD, MIGHT TRY TO GET BACK AND NATO, WHAT DO YOU
THINK? >> WELL VERY, IT’S TOO LITTLE OF THEM SAID TO THE QUESTION, VERY SOME LEGAL ISSUE, BUT THE ABILITY OF ONE PRESIDENT TO GO OUT OF NATO AND THEN VERY IS A POLITICAL QUESTION ABOUT THE IMPACT MORE GENERALLY OF THE
NATO WITHOUT US THE FIRST ONE YOU KNOW, BETTER THAN ME, THAT VERY SOLEMN. SOME GUARDRAILS ON THE SO-CALLED ONE, I THINK WE HAVE TO FACE A REALITY THAT’S NEED TO IT’S ABOUT NORTH AMERICA AND EUROPE GOING TO GIVE HER BECAUSE HISTORY
TEACHES THAT TOO, GAVE WE ARE STRONGER. WE PREDICTED PEACE FOR 75 YEARS. AND THE ISSUE IS, DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE THAT? IF THE US WAS NOT PART OF THE NATO? I DON’T SEE NATO COULD SURVIVES A BLOW, BUT AS
EUROPEANS, WE WILL HAVE TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR OUR DISTANCE. THAT AGAIN, I I THINK THERE IS A REAL REASON WHY 75 YEARS AGO, EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS, NORTH AMERICANS DECIDED TO JOIN FORCE WITHIN NATO. IT HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE AND WE SHOULD
PRESERVE THAT, THAT LEGACY LET ME ASK MORE DIRECT QUESTION DO YOU THINK THAT FRANCE AND OTHER EUROPEAN NATIONS, BUT I WANT TO ASK ABOUT FRANCE NEEDS TO PREPARE HOWEVER MUCH IT MAY HOPE THAT THE UNITED STATES REMAINS A SOLID PARTNER. PREPARE FOR THE POSSIBILITY
THAT THE UNITED STATES MIGHT LEAVE. NATO MIGHT END. IT’S TRANSATLANTIC ALLIANCE AS WE’VE KNOWN IT SINCE 1945 >> SHOULD >> IT, SHOULD FRANCE BE PREPARING FOR THAT AWFUL POSSIBILITY, YOU THINK? >> I THINK THERE’S A REAL
CHANGE WITH LAST YEARS IS RUSSIAN ATTACK ON UKRAINE. >> WE WEAR >> LEAVING IN A PEACEFUL CONTINENT TWO YEARS AGO, WE DISCOVERED AND WAR A TRADITIONAL WAR IN EUROPE WAS POSSIBLE. SO SINCE THEN, I THINK ALL COUNTRIES IN EUROPE
TO ONE ON THE FIRST-LINE, BUT ALSO COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE, LIKE GERMANY, HAS BEEN THINKING AND PRAETORIAN THAT’S A POSSIBILITY THAT GENERAL WAR COULD BE POSSIBLE. AND WE HAVE BEEN RAISING OR MILITARY SPENDING, WE ARE BEING RAMPING UP OUR INDUSTRIAL BASE AND
THAT’S A REAL CHALLENGE. IT’S REALLY WHAT IS A TRIGGER FOR US. WE, WE KNOW THAT WE ARE LIVING IN A MUCH MORE DANGEROUS WORLD AND DEFAULT. BUT AT SAME TIME WE SHOULD ALSO ENLARGE THE SCOPE BECAUSE THE WORLD IS NOT JUST ON UKRAINE AND I THINK THE
WORLD IS BACKUP IN A MOMENT OF COMPETITION BETWEEN PROVERS AND THE ROADWAY DISORDER. RULE-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER THAT WE BUILT IS UNDER THREAT AND SO WE HAVE TO SEE AT THE GLOBAL PICTURE AND NOT TO THINK THAT THESE, WE LOOK AT UKRAINE
AS ORIGINAL ISSUE. IT DOESN’T HAVE AN IMPACT IT DOESN’T SEND A MESSAGE SOMEWHERE ELSE, SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD >> WE ASK ONE MORE QUESTION THAT’S COME FROM OUR AUDIENCE >> THIS IS >> STEVEN IN CONNECTICUT WHO
ASKS WHAT EFFECT, IF ANY, DO YOU SEE THE INCREASED STRENGTH OF THE FAR RIGHT? RIGHT IN FRANCE HAVING ON THE FUTURE WILLINGNESS OF FRANCE TO CONTRIBUTE SUBSTANTIALLY TO THE DEFENSE OF UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY, AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY. >> WHAT ABOUT >> THAT IS FRENCH RIGHT-WING
PRESSURE POSING A THREAT SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SEE IN THE UNITED STATES WITH DONALD TRUMP SO FAR FAR RIGHT? AS BEEN WITH NUANCES, MORE SUPPORTIVE OF UKRAINE VIA TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES WITH THE SUPPORT THEY RECEIVE A CERTAIN MOMENT FROM RUSSIA WE ARE. ADDING AN
ELECTORAL SYSTEM WHICH IS MORE IN FAVORABLE, IT’S OVER A MAJORITY VOTE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TURN ELECTIONS FOR Z MEMBER OF REPRESENTATIVE. SO I DON’T I DON’T SEE IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE AN IMPACT ON RAYS OF THE ONE PARTY OR ANOTHER IN FRANCE,
CHANGING THAT UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE LIVING IN A VERY DANGEROUS MOMENT, THAT RUSSIA IS BECOMING A THREATENED BY THE WAY WE LIVE THAT ALSO VERY DIRECTLY BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT CHALLENGE ON DEMOCRACY VARIES I THINK THAT WE CALL TOTAL COMBAT THAT WE IDENTIFIED WITH 193
INTERNET, INTERNET SITES PROVIDING FAKE NEWS, ATTACKING OUR POLITICAL PERSONNEL AND WE OBSERVED THAT IN MANY PLACES OF THE WORLD’S, WHERE ALSO RUSSIA IS A SPOILER ALSO INTERNATIONAL ORDER. SO I DON’T THINK THERE IS MUCH DOUBT IN THE PUBLIC OPINION IN FRANCE THAT RUSSIA
IS TODAY. FRED TWO OR DEMOCRACY. >> SO AMBASSADOR, LET ME TURN AWAY FROM UKRAINE TO ANOTHER AREA THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT ABOUT BEFORE COMING TO WASHINGTON, YOU ARE FRANCE’S AMBASSADOR TO CHINA ARE ONE OF THE REAL EXPERTS IN WASHINGTON
ON CHINA. MANY ANALYSTS SEE CHINA NOW IN A PERIOD THAT’S OFTEN DESCRIBED AS MULLAHS THE ECONOMY SLOWING AND ITS GROWTH, THE POPULATION FRUSTRATED WITH THE GOVERNMENT EVEN MEMBERS OF THE PARTY MID-LEVEL BUREAUCRATS SAYING TO VISITORS WHO TELL PEOPLE LIKE ME HOW FRUSTRATED
THEY ARE WITH THE POLICIES OF PRESIDENT XI JINPING YOU KNOW, CHINA BETTER THAN MOST PEOPLE. WHAT DO YOU SEE GOING ON? DO YOU THINK THERE’S THIS PROBLEM OF MULLAHS DEVELOPING NOW? >> VERY SOMETHING LIKE A MALAISE GOING ON AND SO GROWTH
IS SMALLER AND EVERY STILL THE LEGACY ALSO OF ZERO COVID POLICY, WHICH HAS BEEN VERY UNPOPULAR IN SOME CITIES LIKE SHANGHAI CERTAINLY AFTER A STRONG CORE CONFINEMENT A BOAT AND BG AS WELL. BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS OF WHAT WE
FEEL IN BIG CITIES AND AMONG ELITES THAT WE MEET AND LET’S SAY TIO2, FREE CITIES. WE’RE ENJOY IN THE LAST YEAR IS A GROWING STILL A BETTER QUALITY OF LIVING. AND ALSO THE FACT THAT UNDER JUDGING BEING AND THANKS TO NEW TECHNOLOGY AS THE
CAPACITY OR THE ABILITY OF CONTROL OF THE POPULATION IS MUCH STRONGER THAN 30 THAT YOU CHOOSE TO BE. >> SO. >> YES, IT’S CERTAINLY A MOMENT A DIFFICULT MOMENT FOR CHINA. BUT IT’S NOT NECESSARILY TRANSLATING TO SOMETHING IN
TERM OF POLITICAL CHALLENGE TO THE AUTHORITY OF PRESIDENT XI JINPING SO THE OTHER THING ANALYSTS WORRY ABOUT IS THAT AS CHINA’S ECONOMY SLOWS >> PRESIDENT XI JINPING MAY BE TEMPTED TO PLAY WHAT WE WOULD CALL THE NATIONALISM CARD TO
RALLY THE COUNTRY BEHIND HIM AND SPECIFICALLY, PEOPLE WORRY THAT HE MIGHT SEEK TO REUNIFY TAIWAN WITH CHINA USING MILITARY FORCE. WHAT I ASKED YOU TWO THINGS. FIRST, AS A FORMER AMBASSADOR EXPERT ON CHINA WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE
LIKELIHOOD THAT SHE WOULD USE MILITARY FORCE DURING HIS TIME AS PRESIDENT TO >> REUNIFY AND SECOND, WHAT WOULD FRANCE AND DO IF TAIWAN WAS INVADED? BY THE PRC >> I THINK NATIONALISM IS REALLY THE CORE AND MAYBE THE
ONLY IDEOLOGY OF TODAY’S CHINA. AND SO USING THE NATIONAL, TO NATIONALISTIC GUARD IS NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING VERY NEW. IT’S CONVEYING THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR DECADES, BUT EVEN MORE SINCE THE OPENING OF THE ECONOMY, IT’S REALLY WHAT
STICKS THE COUNTRY TOGETHER, IS THAT IDEA OF NATIONALISM NATIONALISM, AND COMPARES THE QUESTION OF TAIWAN AND THE UNITY OF CHINA AND SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR THAT THERE IS NO WAY THAT CHINA IS GOING TO FORGET ABOUT HIS WILLINGNESS
TO RECREATE THE COMPLETE UNITY OF CHINA AND TAIWAN BEING THE LAST PART SEPARATED FROM THE MOTHER SO IF WE HAVE TO BE REALISTIC, WHAT THE BEST THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE IS TO PRESERVE THE STATUS QUO AND THAT’S WHERE FRANCE IS CONCENTRATING ALSO.
IT’S A SPORT AND MESSAGING TOWARDS PRESIDENT XI JINPING OR NOT TO CHANGES THAT WE QUO BY FORCE AND TO REFRAIN TO FUEL, TO FUEL THE ATTENTION. AND I THINK THE BASE THAT WE CAN DO IS REALLY TO AVOID WHATEVER WE
CAN TO FUEL TENSION IN THE STRAITS REGARDING FRANCE POSITION, WE HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT WE ARE SO ON ON. WISH TO PRESERVE STATUS QUO. WE HAVE A FREE GATE WHICH IS ALSO PASSING IN THIS TRAY TO SHOW SUPPORT TO THE FREEDOM OF
NAVIGATION. >> AND WE WE ARE WE GOING TO COME ON DETERMINED TO CONTINUE >> TO PLAY OR A PETITION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SCENARIO THAT YOU HAVE BEEN MENTIONING IS NOT HAPPENING SO LET ME TURN TO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
FRANCE AND THE UNITED STATES IN 2021. >> THE ARCUS DEAL SO-CALLED AGREEMENT THE US, AUSTRALIA, AND BRITAIN TO WORK TOGETHER ON NUCLEAR SUBMARINES EXCLUDING FRANCE, WHICH HAD BEEN BUILDING SUBMARINES FOR AUSTRALIA THE RELATIONSHIP THAT’S PUTTING IT MILDLY AS THE WOUND OF ORCAS
HEALED NOW, SO THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND PARIS IS WHERE IT SHOULD BE, OR ARE THERE STILL TENSIONS? >> IT HAS BEEN SOMETIME ALREADY IT WAS A WOUND AS YOU AS YOU MENTIONED THING VARIES. A LOT OF THINGS FOR HISTORIANS TO
STUDY ABOUT ALWAYS A MECHANISM IN THE YEARS TO COME? BUT THEY WERE AFTER THAT INVITATION OF A PRESIDENT FOR A STATE VISIT IN IN WASHINGTON IN NOVEMBER, DECEMBER. AND ALL LEADERS DECIDED THAT IT WAS TIME TO TURN THE PAGE AND LOOK AT THE
FUTURE AND THE FUTURE IS IS ALSO A COMMON CHALLENGE THAT WE, THAT WE HAVE, WHICH IS UKRAINE, WHICH STICK ALSO, WE SHOULD STICK ALLIES TO GIVE HER BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED TO WORK TOGETHER. AND I THINK IT’S IT’S LARGELY NOW PAST. AND
FRANCE IN IS REALLY DETERMINED TO WORK IN FOR THE LONG TERM OF A RELATION WE HAVE BEEN ALLIED FOR SOMETHING LIKE 250 YEARS AND READY TO ADD A NEW CENTURY OR TWO TO THAT SO. >> LAST QUESTION WE HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE. WHAT ADDITIONAL
AREAS OF US FRENCH COOPERATION BEYOND UKRAINE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE AS AMBASSADOR? >> WELL. IN THE STATE VISIT, WE HAD THE TWO VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT WHICH OUR SPACE COOPERATION AND NUCLEAR, AN UNSPECIFIED OPERATION VARIES. A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON WHICH
ARE VERY PROMISING. AND I WILL, THAT WE WILL CONTINUE AND ACHIEVED SOME RESULTS IN THESE FIELDS. >> SO I WANT TO THANK AMBASSADOR LAHORE, BELIEVE THAT AMBASSADOR FRANCE TO WASHINGTON FOR JOINING US TODAY. THANK THANK YOU, MR. AMBASSADOR >> THANKS A LOT.
>> SO THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS DISCUSSION OF SECURITY ISSUES, ESPECIALLY IN UKRAINE, FOR MORE CONVERSATIONS, PLEASE SIGN UP FOR A WASHINGTON POST SUBSCRIPTION. YOU CAN GET A FREE TRIAL BY VISITING WAPO DOT
ST. BACKSLASH LIVE TO GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO WATCH MORE OF THESE PROGRAMS I’VE DAVID IGNATIUS, A COLUMNIST FOR THE