A superb episode talking through the early years of the Weimar Republic following WWI. You’ll hear about the new Republic’s constitution, the challenges from the Left and Right Wing, The Treaty of Versailles and it’s impact.
Well done Isla and Ella
This is part one of the Isla and Ella show, part 2 will be 1923, a very bad year!
Stay tuned…
We shall fight on the beaches we shall fight in the fields and in the streets oh I have the body of a weak and feeble woman all men are created I have a dream one small for man One hello everybody and welcome to another episode of mods part today we have got Isa and and we’re going to be talking about The Early viar Republic um so really useful for our gcss for some revision and hopefully if you listen to this you’ll find that useful as well so you ready
Yeah shall we start probably start with the end of the war then what’s what’s happening in Germany around that time obviously like the Kaiser Advocates but like before that cuz obviously they were told that everyone in Germany was told that they were winning so it came as
Quite a shock like a lot of them wanted to keep fighting like they had like a lot of Pride for their country and when you’ve been told by Propaganda that you’re winning and you’re doing well in this war and then you’ve lost it must come as quite a shock and and you’re
Right you hit the nail on the head there are these such a proud people you know and that’s one of the reasons for the war starting in the first place was this Empire building and stuff yeah big shock big shock so they’re suffering though aren’t they yeah yeah they lost like 2
Million soldiers that yeah there there was a lot going on the those are food shortages led to like 500,000 Germans dead like from salvation we talked about that in class didn’t we like that was a British tactic to block the ports uh and I think in the main we agreed it was
Probably harsh but an act of War yeah yeah it won the war didn’t it cuz they kill or be killed I guess yeah so the when you say 500,000 Germans are like like civilians yeah star to death people that probably did not maybe believe in even fighting in the war people that
Were going about their daily lives and um were being punished just like British civilians just at home like La said going about your daily lives just so and that that’s that’s awful it’s the star to death is such a sort of brutal way today isn’t it so long so all that chaos
Then that must put some pressure on the German government you say the KA is advocated but of course he has because his people are now starting to turn on him as well aren’t they yeah um and was a good tactic probably then by the British to do that blockade all right so
They are angry at this Kaiser and they’re demanding the king sort of steps down but he’s currently running around the trenches saying we’re winning is that what you’re telling me yeah so a bit of a shock for them but um what else has happened like sort of another country but close by recently
That might have made the KA a little bit concerned about this rumbles of upset in Germany probably the Russian re Revolution like cuz obviously like there was this s who was like overthrown and whatnot yeah so the whole family were murdered yeah that probably was going through the Kaiser’s head because it was
Only like two years ago wasn’t it yeah and it was like it was a big thing um obviously for an entire Royal Family to be killed so if it’s possible in Russia where else is it possible Germany in Germany and I think that’s the gist of
It isn’t it right there um so a lot of people don’t want him because they feel that they’re suffering and they’re dying of course some will and you may get on to the the right wing of Germany who who want this King back as we go through
This this um episode but that that’s quite important isn’t it so you talk about this abdication and introduce what to Germany for the first time of a democracy a democracy what’s that exciting uh a government where people have a say and they get to choose what
Happens who leads um yeah they get to decide so something that we definitely take for granted we’re so lucky to them in 1918 this idea that you going I pick your leader really a lot of them must have bit strange to them especially you know when the king is the king and we’ve
Always believed in the king so yeah do you think this new this new country this viar Republic do you think it’s it’s does it sound like it’s going to be successful has it got a good starting point I think like in a way like people they kind of needed this change from all
Like the deaths and the tragedies so I think for a lot of them this would have been a good thing but obviously for a lot of them it won’t have been a good thing so I think there’s definitely different sides to the argument some will have really taken this on board and
Some will have just absolutely gone to the other side like I feel like a lot of people would have been willing to like sacrifice the Kaiser for this new Option but a lot of people well you’re right be opposed it’s such a different idea as well like it’s like as you say it’s
Something that we take for granted but they would have no idea about and if they haven’t experienced that it can be I assume quite overwhelming yeah um absolutely you’re right scary exciting yeah brilliant but I cheapers it’s going to be interesting and The Whole World War I has changed the landscape forever
Hasn’t it it was such a big war that no nothing like this ever been seen before so when when roughly so they put the pressure on the the Kaiser they’re starving to death um presumably there’s the right it’s because there’s no bread they’re eating animals in the zoo when
Roughly did the Kaiser decide to step down on the n9th the Kaiser abdicated AB abdicated and then obviously two days later it was AR this but obviously like America they promised the Kaiser that if he stepped down like all the treaty and everything would be a lot less harsh
Yeah but like obviously not the case well we’ll see about that in a minute yeah so who’s replaced the Kaiser then the king’s gone there must be this huge vacuum fried rice Ebert fried rice Eber Eber that’s just how we spell it isn’t it so fried rice e Fredick um not fried
Rice what what what a job to take on so what has he got to deal with let remind ourselves what we dealing with starving country a angry country because they thought that the treaty he’s got a lot to deal with a lot yeah no wonder really
Looks so so Grim in his in his pictures right but here with in this democracy right so this new country this Republic obviously Republic is a country without a king or queen so where why is it called the V Republic so when all of the country was in riots and despair basically Berlin
Was in Ruins I imagine and um riots all the time because people were so angry so just too dangerous to try and set something up yeah so they fled to viar where um they formed this new government this new constitution so then it’s the new government then that did the
Armis yeah so that must been eber’s first thing then I bet that went down with the people the new leader the new Republic the first thing they did was give up yeah yeah doesn’t sound great you you could argue though that that is what the people wanted um the people who
Were at home starving because of this war that’s what they wanted I don’t think that there was a real win in this situation there was no way it was probably the best thing for the country like obviously the citizens probably would have thought otherwise but like from someone else’s point of view in
Homite yeah it’s a it was better decision but there’s a lot of people who were unhappy with that weren’t they what what do they call Eber to do in this the November criminal yeah the November criminals and that’s sort of as we go through our Germany story you’re going
To keep coming back to the November criminals all the time um particularly the right wi and Hitler in his speeches and stuff so they essentially I think they felt um what stabbed in the back D they absolutely did they felt you know this this country that they have fought
For in the trenches and yeah you’ve just quit they’ve lost so many soldiers for what so like so many families they’ve lost their brothers Sons dads uncles they’ve lost their family all for a l nothing yeah for us to just go oh we quit yeah um but then don’t forget what
You just said was really important the Americans have promised that if the the treaty won’t be that hard yeah then then the punishment might not be so Ebert’s gone along with that eert said okay okay I’ll take that and as we’ll see at the end of this or during this episode that
Is not what happened is um which is unfortunate so let’s have a little summary then of what’s going on what we’ve talked about so far before we maybe look on to the early challenges yeah so there’s new government yeah so we’ve got a new government some people
Are unsure um some people are taking on the idea they’re excited about this new government but others they wanted the Kaiser to return they wanted a dictat in the country they didn’t want to make their own decisions and that was the rightwing so generally the nationalists want this strong unified country they’re
Probably proud of their country want this strong leader a lot a lot of starvation I mean like I said before 500,000 people died roughly like obviously this was a great like tactic for the British but Germans suffered a lot from this and I suppose with that we’re talking about the seeds that we
Say in class don’t we that this seed is going to grow this anger is going to grow and grow into this tree of what becomes 1939 just water on the plant absolutely so the seeds are planted because of the end of the war the anger the sadness that you know like you said
Before Britain was also in a horrible situation um but we we were able to recover in fact when we do the treaty in a minute yeah I’ve told you in class of I really believe the treaty is the reason for World War II other things happen but Germany was in no position
Fly Rec so absolutely and then this this do idea yeah so the German people obviously felt as if they’ve been stabbed in the back by this new government because if they thought that they were winning the war why would they now accept the fact that they’ve lost it
Because of all the propaganda and everything the fact that they thought they were winning and now they’re not that must have been something very hard for them to feel and the fact that is this new government that they’re probably already unsettled with has done that immediately not a brilliant start
What a way to uh appeal to the new the new the new people uh so you’ve talked about the starvation and stuff there’s a lot of social unrest as well there’s a lot of anger yeah yeah definitely so people have come back from the war and
The world they’re coming home to is very different so yeah tell me about these people who are coming back who are they and what’s their sort of view on this I mean there’s obviously the soldiers they they were were very like uh like passionate and proud of their country to
Go and fight for it and so a lot of them came back and left the Army but a lot of those soldiers who left the Army didn’t give up their weapons which are called fry cour the fry cour yeah who are armed ex soldiers so what could possibly go
Wrong chaos and people with guns yeah anger and it going to mix well Ebert might be wishing he never applied for that yeah these frore are going to play a bit of a part in our story aren’t they yeah they’re after the war as well as the fry
Cor and the unrest with the civilians they are as a country in so much debt from this war and like it’s 37 billion like that is a amount that we as people would not be able to comprehend and that is what they have to pay to be
Able to get themselves back on their feet yeah so every country is going to obviously be in debt from a war it’s expensive but 37 billion is is an incredible amount isn’t it a lot of money so that they bankrupt affects everything then doesn’t it really because you’ve got people who are
Starving you got this chaos and this debt yeah that they’re going to struggle to to deal with and if you’ve got no money you can’t afford for food um and to stop so this affects the trade it affects everything so the government are going to have to raise taxes there’s
Another welcome to Republic your taxes are going up so not a good start really but it’s nothing could really do about this is a no it was not his fault again when me talk with this treaty we keep saying the treaty don’t me that proves how important is this 37 billion is
Going to be made just a little bit worse isn’t it a little bit absolutely and then and then like the most important bit really after a war is the impact on the nation the families would be devastated um as I said before people’s Brothers Sons like fathers they weren’t
Coming home or if they were they would never be the same again so about 7 million people yeah like 7 million casualties so like deaths and and injuries like a lot we talk a lot about the deaths like the 2 million deaths but you’ve also got to think about the men
Who are injured like that’s going to change their lives right like men who have like lost legs and things like that’s changing their life they’re not going to be happy about that no like losing like parts of themselves yeah for nothing for a surrender and that’s it is
What it feels like isn’t it it feels like that was all for nothing because of this surrender yeah and as well as the actual soldiers themselves and all of the casualties and deaths that we think about it’s the effect that their deaths has have on their families yeah as well
Which just adds to the social unrest really yeah like not only are the soldiers mad their families are mad the civilians are mad everyone’s mad everyone’s angry H I wonder what could possibly fix this oh probably some riots in the first couple of mons maybe the Communists
Might have a little bit to say about that so shall we now have a little think about this new country very quickly sort of how it set up politically the government and you know who can vote and things like that yeah yeah so in this VMA Constitution everyone had their
Freedom of speech their freedom of religion and they could speak their minds which was probably quite strange to them as they not had this before well this monarchy or dictatorship under the Kaiser they’ be like what can I say that yeah yeah it would be definitely a shot
Yeah so they had this like personal freedom and the equality of people because it wasn’t just men who could vote as you would think during this time but it was men and women wow over 20 that was very farward yeah who could vote like it’s a very modern
Constitution so it’s incredible think in Britain we’re sort of dealing with the sub project still at this point all the aftermath of that wow and like just a top of all the right sag which is the government was actually voted for by the people and obviously the right sag made
The laws from the people from who who Ved for the from the people and that’s how our government works today we vote for Representatives who then go and make laws and for our will yeah so that’s democracy yeah it’s it’s fragile democracy isn’t it but oh yeah
This is a brand new brand new baby this one is like this new little country it’s either going to win or it’s not yeah um but in theory what you’re describing there the V Constitution is really modern really fur so women can vote as well that must have been a yeah
Something that’s taken us as a country a lot longer definitely I mean for that to be like put in with like so quickly like that’s a in itself from a dictatorship to a democracy with the that sort of Constitution that quickly is there are still people who on the right who want
The king back they want yeah yeah I suppose sometimes youve got to move of the times haven’t we also in their defense though these people it’s all they ever they’ve ever known it they they don’t know any different and it’s all happened very quick AB it was it’s like the Kaiser abdicates two
Days later they’ve lost this war that they’ve been fighting for for four years and when they’ve got this whole new democracy where they can say what they want when they’ve been restricting their views there think love to go back I’d love to just be like a little flying the
Wall at these people in the houses going are we going to go and vote and you’re like what well yeah you can vote yeah that would be cool you can do that you can do that now so we’ve got this new government then so obviously a government government is the people how
Is this new V Republic set up then who’s in charge you mentioned eer a minute ago but but how does it generally work so EA is the head of state so the first bit so yeah the first guy’s got to run this yeah he’s like top so he’s like the head
Of the RAR Republic but he is still elected well they elect a new head of state um every seven years yeah so the new president yeah and like the president basically he can use article 48 which we’ll come back to later but he also chooses the chancellor okay so you
Got a lot of power then yes a lot of power a lot a lot of power he choose the chancellor oh I wonder what that happens what CU he’s obviously going to choose the president’s going to choose Hitler yeah in 1933 isn’t he goodness well that’s itself isn’t it I suppose if he
Can choose them he can get rid of them can’t he will that be a bit like dictatorship then wouldn’t it so they’re supposedly going to be careful not to it’s difficult I think with the head of state choosing the chancellor because on the one hand the people choose the
President like and the head of state but then they still have that sort of I I wouldn’t use the word dictatorship but they do have that power over choosing another part of this there still some bits that are out of like people’s grasp and stuff but there has to be leaders don’t there
Otherwise it’s chaos isn’t it so okay the the day today running so the president I guess is he’s over there somewhere he’s he’s important he does his bit but the government is the day today is going to be run by uh a Chancellor in in Germany yeah all right
So what does he do so he is the head of the government so he chooses the government government ministers which again I guess you could say they have that power over that side so you are really as a um citizen in Germany as a part of the elector you are
Voting for the head of state which then chooses something else which then chooses someone else so you do I guess that part is quite limited however you are voting you are making a choice it be similar to being in Britain to our prime minister yeah you got the que oh the
King oh nearly said Queen so so soon got the king who is the head of state yeah be it like just symbolic or whatever but the Prime Minister sort of runs the country yeah so the chancellor in this case would be very similar um and he
Then picks his his cabinet yeah so what what what what who goes in the cabinet what kind of people so the people that would be best for the job so what kind of roles talking about so in Britain we’ve got the education Minister the health Minister the minister defense all
Those things is that similar in the v Republic I would assume decision makers the most yeah like the most the most qualified people to be able to make decisions in certain areas or government ministers potentially ACC according to the chancellor that is indeed exing to the chancellor that’s suppose the
Benefit of winning the election is you pick your people yeah yeah that’s the thing which is like that in our country isn’t it all right so then how do they pass laws and this is again the same as Britain isn’t it really yeah um they have what
Body later yeah which is Parliament yeah and fancy citizenship words the r tag very good see good revision all around this episode is it yeah so the r tag is going to be important later it’s going to be a bit rag um but they pass the law
Control the taxes yeah and we’ve talked already haven’t we about how this fantastic New Republic women and men can vote so anyone over 20 essentially best thing about the rice stag is it’s elected by the people every four years so obviously it’s good that they can vote for the head of state however
That’s seven years that’s quite a long time to make a lot of change but four years it’s it’s like it’s the same as us yeah yeah like absolutely so there’s no chance of hopefully not getting a dict or something if by this do you think do you think it’s safeguards get a
Dictator cuz the a new election every before year surely someone could couldn’t yeah no his thing is still got a we know what happen so I I think the fact that the head of state is the one who chooses the chancellor that’s the loophole to yeah I mean we’ve got the
Head a head of state and then we’ve got our prime minister our prime minister is elected and obviously the prime minister is the most important decision maker in our country and it’s the same with um Germany the chancellor was the most important but for us at least we get to
Kind of vote in somewhat the Prime Minister you don’t really get any say as to who the head of state is going to choose to be the chancellor and again he could choose his mate or whatever could or some some dodgy thing or Hitler almost almost like what sort of You
Could argue what happens today like in Parliament we do elect the prime like or in some sense we do elect the Prime Minister and then they choose their cabinet but the difference is is we elec in the people into um Parliament so then they can be chose to be a part the like
Cabinet yeah that’s a good subtle difference there but it’s an important one isn’t it yeah so you just mentioned article 48 a minute ago yes what is that really quickly cuz it’s going to play a part later then we can come back to this and do episode two we can essentially
Make a new episode each time we move through the story and so you you can have your own little volume in muds pod um but this is going to be a thing later on but what is article 48 so article 48 basically says that in a time of Crisis
Or emergency the president so EA in this case would be able to use article 48 to rule themselves without asking the chancellor or the right tag in order to pass laws yeah which essentially is dictatorship isn’t it yeah pretty much so if this new VMA Republic wants to
Survive and be respected and be democracy yeah they shouldn’t really be using article 48 the thing is with article 48 who gets to decide whether it’s a crisis or an emergency it’s all very subjective it’s definitely subjective definitely and as well as that how did they get to say we are a
Democracy and then have this law this article 48 which says that for a certain time we can become a dictatorship again yeah the only thing it seems counterproductive to me to be honest however if they’ve been in a dictatorship throughout their history it’s very difficult to let go of that
Part yeah and I think as well one other teeny little thing that might make that decision about what is an emergency is that they have a proportional representation system yes so they’re going to have at least up to anything up to 20 parties within the r tag who have
To agree this is a crisis yes so let’s talk a little bit about what this proportion representation is and what it means for this this new democracy I think it’s a good thing I don’t know what you guys think for young people generally my favorite I think there’s system voting systems this
One is basically every vote counts in PR yeah it’s basically where like the number of votes cast uh relates to the number of people elected and it’s kind of on a percentage basis so let’s say like one party they get 20% of this of the votes they would
Then get 20% of the seats and like so on and so on um it definitely has its um kind of advantages like it’s in some ways it’s more democratic because those smaller parties they can get in there say people feel more inclined to vote for the party
That they actually want to vote to for because well I mean they’re more likely to actually get into Parliament and stuff but obviously there’s also its disadvantages yeah so like really good the positive are everyone feels they’re having a say yeah yeah that’s obviously a good thing in a democracy if everyone
Thinks they’re having a say but what would we talk about in clust we trying to decide when the best chocolate bar is impossible if we narrow it down to just two it’s much easier and whereas in our country we have the first past the post
System yes yes which you know as soon as you get a certain amount of votes you win and in the US as well whereas this one you could end up with 20 odd parties in a time of Crisis that’s the worst thing so like Co if you got
Try to decide what to doible to decide and that’s the negative of the V Republic isn’t it and as we get into the next few years with Hitler and the Great Depression and all those things the government becomes is unable to work right you guys don’t know that yet but
That is essentially what will happen is the parliament just doesn’t work and they keep having to have re-elections all the time and and and that chaos people’s confidence perhaps in the new Republic start to fall away a little bit um so the weaknesses of that are definitely um that there’s too many
Parties too many coalitions join together to make a majority but as well as that it creates this sort of doorway for extremist views to get their seats in Parliament and have their say and the one argument is they should be able to have their say of they’re being elected in however if
You’re living in in a democracy and their views are undemocratic where do you draw the line MH absolutely uh and you’ll see all those things are going to come in this story uh the problem is as well in this country is the Army and the judges are quite rightwing we’ll talk
About rightwing leftwing in a minute just to understand that but that means so criminals perhaps Communists leftwing politicians anyone who does something if you are up against a right-wing judge there’s the corruption there straight away isn’t there and we’ll see that because as we’ve said in class as we
Build up towards this Munich P story when Hitler is arrested the judge is right wing yeah it’s like the punishment is it’s laughable the it in our country judges that we have they can’t say which party they support because of it’s so difficult rightly so because you could
Say you’ve charged me with this because you know that I support this and you support that and it becomes it’s really messy isn’t it actually do you know like real life behind the scenes government yeah for most of us we just go about our day pay get our wages and go in the
Shops there’s a lot goes into this running country stuff isn’t there yeah so interesting we oh it’s fascinating absolutely so we have talked a l about this left and right thing for people who may not know what that is what what roughly is the the definition of left wi
Or rightwing so leftwing definitely goes more towards communist well that’s like the Very extreme side of it um definitely more like kind of workers um more like that sort of thing and then rightwing well in this case is the Nazi party are very the extreme the extreme
Is that is the extreme but I would say right-wing is it’s nationalism it’s be it’s very proud of their country of their business of it’s got very traditional family values and Law and Order Mom Dad kids wife at home Dad at work Trad you can see how that fits in
With the Nazi parties absolutely laser ideas um but they want this powerful leader this mon thiser just not chaos not as it currently is yeah Law and Order Law and Order and this is why Donald Trump in America currently talks about being if they get elected if he
Gets elected this year in the general election uh 2024 for people listening to this yeah when this is recorded um the party of Law and Order yeah yeah you know come into that a bit later it’s a bit diff difficult some nice s facts there I think I from that but but the
People generally the people want to live in a safe country don’t they want to be able to leave their front door open or their bike in the garden without someone stealing it that’s what everyone wants everyone wants stability and safety no one wants to be in a place where they
Don’t feel secure that’s why people flee their countries in the first place and no one wants to be in the position where they are fearing for their life in their own home exactly and I think that’s where the right wi come in people in class have said haven’t they can’t see
Much wrong with the right like it doesn’t sound so bad but we’re talking about the extreme right but actually the idea of non not a chaotic country Law and Order police are respected you know well that that doesn’t seem that bad but it’s communism it’s when you read between the lines
That’s when it starts to get a bit more like an interpretations of things yeah so we’re all we’re absolutely petrified of Communism aren’t we um particularly because the Russian Revolution the Communists and many of those Communists who did that to the Russian Roy family were Jewish so you’ve got this sort of
Real negative thing already might later’s this of Jewish people as well um but the idea is that the the people have all the power um no one can be rich no one can make profit that’s quite scary to people who have worked hard to create
A business yeah and in some ways it can see it can seem very unfair people because someone’s always going to be in control you can’t have a country where everyone is fully equal because it wouldn’t work and people human beings are greedy and selfish they’re going to want really
They are going to want more they are going to want as much as they can get and that’s just how we are as human beings and the fact that there will have to be someone in charge would they abuse that yeah and the irony of Communism is
Everyone’s equal but has to be a leader I’ve often thought of that it isn’t equal not equal and like I it just doesn’t seem right someone working like so hard for the same amount as someone who sat at home doing absolutely so we talk about this we’re talking about this now
And even in class it’s been a bit controversial isn’t it I wouldn’t say necessarily split 50-50 I think the the idea of Communism is very sort of worrying generally but imagine back at the time when you’ve never been allowed your own opinion and now you have got an
Opinion uh and the young people generally there’s a there a lot of jokes that go around say jokes but where young people start off left wing and the older they get the more successful they get they move rightwing because they’re now doing well so this country is like oh we
Can vote we’re 20 there’s a lot of confusion and you got like the the the rich going against the young people of this new Republic would have been interesting to be there I think wouldn’t it I think so so that’s theis we’ve got maybe in this first Republic we’ve got
29 parties in the first government a lot lot of you know Ebert is is leftwing slightly left wing so maybe like the labor party in our country today whereas the conservatives be just slightly right fromer so Ebert’s left wing he’s definitely left wing not extreme not a communist no but very
Moderate very sort of I feel slightly not to extreme left wing is EA as himself because he does care for the people he wants them to have their say he wants them to do well for themselves but also not leave people in absolute ruins so it makes sense like
That he would be slightly left wing yeah and he’s also got to try and appeal to everybody asn’t he cuz it’s new leader he’s got to be pretty modate to be I like e but I think I think he struggled a lot I think all things thrown at that
Him that make him seem like he wasn’t that great but to be honest a lot of things he did worked so history history looks on him as this guy who’s inherited this hell of a job yeah did a lot of things did what they thought was the
Right thing and and as we we know with the printing the money which we’ll talk about in a minute yeah that was his mistake was that was not his best decis the snowball of that is he ends up losing power and and 1923 as we know so
Shall we talk about his first his first real crisis then this first challenge okay the spus Spartacus right so the Spartacus you’ve said so who are they and what do they want they’re basically they’re Communists um they want a communist Germany yeah probably inspired by Russia’s Revolution the Russian Revolution and how that
Worked out for them they want this equal very fair country and they fight for it yeah I mean it was led by um a woman named Rosa Luxenberg and a man called kib neck um Rosa can often be referred to as Red Rosa red for communism abely
And like this Uprising it was mainly spoted by the sacking of a police chief in Berlin by EA and um these Communists called for an uprising on the January about 100,000 of them 100,000 workers on the 6th of January 1919 well if you’re going to do anything
You do it on New Year don’t you New Year’s resolution so 100,000 these workers have seized Berlin yeah yeah I mean they’ve seized the government’s newspaper officers and then chaos the are losing control of Berlin which is the capital your Ebert what do you do because if you start shooting
Them all this doesn’t look like democracy anymore does it no it’s a bit of a dilemma really they need to be able to have their say so you can’t just shoot them you can’t let them take control of Berlin either and if you if you make a deal with them then you could
Be seen as a communist yeah yeah and no a good only good come is a dead Comey indeed better dead than red yeah yeah not our thinking these are just things that have been said for anyone listening so the choice is make a deal or put them down all right who who
Potentially could we have or does EA have that he could maybe use fry cor the frore so these ex soldiers walk the street with their and nothing else to do and of course being rightwing being a soldier generally you probably be AIT rightwing so that nationalism we talk
About that Pride of the country you wouldn’t fight you didn’t believe in people at the time were scared of Communists so Pride cops generally so it’ be a bit of a duck hunt wouldn’t it I can just imagine at a forground you know when you’re shooting ducks that you
Say to these fry car go on do me a favor H so if Ebert does use the frore though does that mean he’s like kind of beholden to them that this new Republic is is is only there because of the army it’s not it’s not a strong case for
Democracy is it but needs much cuz they’ve taken over Berlin it also makes him seem like more of a dictat a more of a dictator because he’s using this almost Army he’s using his own army or fry Corp to take down someone who has opposing views to him and is causing him
I wouldn’t say harm but potentially we’re definitely causing his like but you’re absolutely right though he is essentially shutting up people with an opposing view which is not democracy is it not democracy at all I mean he’s 250,000 Fred CS but these 100,000 soldiers yeah no they’re not
Even solders they don’t have a chance just some workers with a flat cap you know and wanting to change the world and then boof the the frore come in and Destroy them and it’s over very quickly isn’t it very poor Rosa yeah ends up in a canal doesn’t she
Pretty pretty brutal yeah but then in a way his first challenge he dealt with that really straightforward doesn’t he yeah brutally but yeah you could argue not very Democratic You could argue not listening to people’s views you could argue You could argue anything really but he has dealt with the situation I
Think quite successfully he’s decisive isn’t he um and in nether too cuz if you let them then you need to make a decision if you’re in charge this what the people in charge have to do you’ve sometimes a decision difficult but you have to make one absolutely and I think
Very often the right thing is often the hardest thing to do isn’t it in this case there’s a treasonous rebellion in Berlin the capital so he’s dealt with it and he’s going to have a peaceful rest of life no until no six months later so six months later after his little
Success against the Spartacus we have just a teeny tiny little thing called the Treaty of Versa oh goodness little little little tiny thing little tiny like tell me tell me all about it it was a treaty that they were forced to sign um created by the French British and
American um and that was George clemo wood R wood R Wilson nice and David Lloyd George beautiful so you use the word Force we’ll come back to that in a minute yeah cuz to me that is probably the one of the things that’s like heart heart rate off the off the planet so
28th of June 6 months later after the spartus St Rising challenge two yeah quite a big one Ebert’s loving this one so he goes off to Paris a nice little holiday um or not to the Palace of versil while he’s there why not um hoping to negotiate because what did we
Talk about earlier what did the American president promise he promised the treaty would not be that hard e everything you last yeah oh he’s in for a surprise isn’t he just little George clemo did get his way so let’s talk with these big three then before we
Go on so our Prime Minister David Lloyd George what does he want from this he wants to please the people of Britain but he also wants a strong Germany for trade and for wall against communist Russia beautiful so there’s a general election at home he’s going to try and
Say publicly we’re going to get revenge going for all your uncles and brothers and stuff you never come home but behind the scenes he like we we need to keep Germany strong yeah yeah and he’s he’s trying to create this treaty with a guy called George Clemens so you’ve
Mentioned yes French he the tiger he wanted to an destroy Germany like and very angry I mean most of the war took place in France so they got a lot of damage they lost a lot of farming just they received a lot of damage and George Clem was angry he
Wanted revenge in some way rightfully so yeah he wants revenge rightly so his country is the one that’s been destroyed but he also wants to I suppose his people to never worry about a German invasion because France and Germany are Bo are on the border of each other
Aren’t we wants to get rid of the like option of a war yeah like I I get that which I think it’s understand the point of the treaty they want to stop a war yeah but also they promised created that they created definitely created World War but they promised that it wouldn’t
Be so harsh if this was what they come up with that wasn’t so harsh what would it have been before yeah and interestingly when we finish this bit of talk now and we realize just how harsh the treaty was that George Clemens so lost his job he was not elected because
He wasn’t harsh enough the people of France did not think he was harsh enough and then we’ve got obviously the most powerful of all uh the United States they come along Wilson so what does he want what the what does American president all want he’s a very he’s an
Idealist um negotiator he wanted peace he wanted he was probably the person who wanted the least harsh yeah who was a strong Germany a strong Europe is good for America for trade is it yeah and I mean he came up with the League of Nations which is a great idea isn’t it
That’s so this idea that all countries will work together to never have a war again he basically just wants peace basically they all want peace he wants a Utopia doesn’t quite end out that way so clearly is going to win this little debate so EA is sat outside waiting like
A naughty little boy outside the headmaster’s office yeah to come in and sign his life away basically yeah and of course if he doesn’t sign it but something that they all want go back to war if he doesn’t sign it yeah something they all want
Is not to have a war they they don’t want a war they want a strong Germany and if they don’t want want a strong Germany they want protection they don’t want to go to war nothing wrong with those there no they just so do you think
These three are going to be able to agree on this no no so let’s see then the actual terms of the treaty okay and obviously it has a huge impact on Germany we’ve sort of joked all the way through isn’t he that this is the this
Is the the start of the war of World War II the hatred that is going to grow towards this so we we use in in school we use brat to help us remember so blame reparations reparations army army yeah and and territory territory so hopefully that if you’re listening you might do
Something different with lamb l army money blame but essentially the same thing so the blame game the first thing before we can punish them we need to get them to accept blame for this war yeah so which I find so unfair why so because they have to like accept full
Responsibility for starting World War I which they didn’t do and take full responsibility for killing our people when we killed theirs as well it was a war it was kill or be killed so you’re saying they didn’t start World War I so what did uh the assassination ofke
Friends ferino so if anything it was Austria who started the war they declared war on Serbia yeah and then of course that triggered our alliance system didn’t it so Germany was just essentially looking after its mate Russia got as well just as we were doing
For Belgium I agree F fully there but to give these Germans and not just the German government or the Kaiser but you’re essentially putting that guilt on the whole nation yeah everyone and that’s carrying an awful bur is and if you’re being BL you’re essentially being
Blamed for as I said before your sons husbands they’re not coming home and you’re getting the blame for it yeah yeah absolutely so that was Article was it 231 231 the war guilt claw the war guilt claw so now that theyve accepted guilt yeah now we can punish them yeah
Yeah that’s a weird sort of way to look at it but that is so this League of Nations you just mentioned to everyone in it together to stop the war Germany was not allow they were not allowed straight away that’s a bit of a negative isn’t it yeah and then that’s already
Made them so vulnerable if every single other country is in this group that you’re not allowed to be in you’re going to get angry be pleased about that makes you feel so vulnerable and probably humiliated as well the fact that you’re the only country that’s left out yeah so
That alone would make me angry but I could live with that if that was the worst bit of it yeah that I’m being punished a little bit I’m being outcasted a little bit but unfortunately it’s not the it’s not the worst not the worst so the second bit of this would be
These reparations so another Posh for compensation Yeah so basically they had to pay 6.6 billion to on top of the 37 billion wow so we have 40 OD billion debt yeah that’s a lot of debt 6.6 billion yeah a number that we couldn’t even faom and they’re already bankrupt from the war
And now we’ve gone I have this as well yeah right okay adding to the pie so that’s going to be more taxes yeah more business going and bus more unemployed people back in that Berlin Zoo eating animals before you could before you know it um so so compensation should be paid
Though because certainly to France most of France and Belgium was destroyed in the trenches wasn’t it yeah um it just seems a bit harsh isn’t it 6.6 million a lot of money and I wonder if in hindsight like this we’ll never know everyone’s dead now but I wonder if in
Hindsight people thought we got that wrong yeah I wonder if in 1939 when Britain goes to war did they think yeah we got that wrong back then but the thing is I think we have a very different outlook on it than people back then people back then they suffered
Through like all that time they were they were there those men were in the war those families back home they lost people you’re abely when they really think like you lost like your sons or your like your family members to this war you’d want blood with you yeah you
Want them to have to pay for that you compensation for all the pain that you’ve been yeah caused and that would be late today would it if someone robbed your house or something you’d want the punishing here yeah it’s Justice it’s what fair fair enough so let’s make it
Even better for this economy so the one place that they might make some money they’re coal Fields Fields were given to France for 15 years Clem so definitely won this one so we want them to pay the de we want to pay the compensation but we’re going to
Take away the means of paying yeah they’re going to take away the IND everything what could possibly they could possibly use to get themselves out of this situation is taken it’s it’s not going to so so far blame and then reparations is yeah bad yeah now you take this
Proud Super Force country with 14 million soldiers before the war and you decimate it what happened to the Army 100,000 soldiers was the only amount that they could have 100 that so small what’s that going to do against a whole country what is it what is it going to
Do it can’t do anything it’s a punishment isn’t it that punishment and then on top of that they only allowed six battleships mhm and zero Air Force No Air Force um yeah it’s just so there’s absolutely no way is there that they’re going to be invaded anybody this
Is the hand of of of uh clemo isn’t it this one yeah it’s like definitely that aspect of stopping Another War yeah but they do it in such a way where it leaves Germany so vulnerable for an attack yeah and rightly so because they started the
War or not no can you see our little discussion here what that must have been like at the time yeah so they’ve got no tanks they’ve got no artillery who didn’t have any part in this like for the children that had been born they did not understand at all what was going
On and they are suffering so much mhm um to me this is this is one of maybe the main reasons why there was opposition because there’s that vulnerability Now isn’t there yeah a there’s anger you think this is too harsh but you actually feel vulnerable yeah you know so the
Rhin land which is some a bit of German land on the border of France was demilitarized meaning no s no soldiers or like artillery or anything like that are allowed to be so that is France feel safer I guess safer and make Germany feel vulner more vulnerable I guess what
We’re looking at just have a thought really so if we started with 14 million soldiers we have just overnight with the stroke of a pen created 13.9 million unemployed unemployment just think like insan fighting for your country put so much effort and work to lose your job
Like not only to lose your job to lose the war as well you’ve put in no Pride for them people social unrest there was most probably someone who had fought the whole way through the war at least one person if you fought for four years for
Your country and then you lose and then you lose your job you’re going to be angry you got to be angry uh and then perhaps that’s when a small man with a big voice might start appealing yeah yeah so you you’re painted a really really Grim picture there I’m sort of
Feeling heartbroken just at the thought of it that there 14 million unemployed people who just fought for their country and their country essentially to them their country has stabbed them in the back by agreeing to this EA has essentially said thanks for risking your life for us you’re screwed off you go
Yeah yeah of course he didn’t though he had no choice to sign it but he didn’t have a choice but this dols you can see why they felt stabbed on back these no criminals so that’s the Army and I thought a minute ago just the reparations are bad enough when you had
That as well oh yeah it’s getting tough it just gets it’s just you just add and then we’ll kill the Empire as well now we’ll destroy the Empire that they were so proud of as well 11 African colonies which everyone at that time every country was trying to build an Empire so
That was that Scramble for Africa earlier on wasn’t it the Empire and everyone was doing it Britain France Scramble for Africa wasn’t fair but that’s a whole different topic yeah um but they had them and that provided resources it got taken away from them and not to mention 133% of its
Land was taken away along with 6 million Germans which is 10% of the population that’s 10% of German people who were German imagine what those people are thinking like it’s like saying we’re Germans but now we’re not in Germany it’s like they now you’re Pol check it’s
And your relatives are like hang on a minute so you maybe can’t it just changes everything doesn’t it it is it really is and then nearly half of their iron and like we said 15% of their Co production from the Sarco fors was lost so like yeah they like hope of trying to
Pay off those reparations pay off their debt it’s not going to happen it’s gone until then why you think e was thinking that there reading this um probably gonna get shot I don’t think you allowed to say what you might have been thinking yeah um yeah although I did just have a
Thought the fact that they lost such a huge part of their population would you want to be a part of Germany at that time or a part of one of the other countries that it was given polish or Czech and if if they are polish I I
Understand that they do have that Pride for their country but would you as one of those people be almost like a bit glad when they have everything that’s to come like the treaty itself the fact that you technically would not be a German at that time so you may not so much yeah
You have almost like a protection it’s like all of your relatives so many people you know in Germany your life obviously your identity isn’t it it’s what you identify with so I see what you’re saying but yeah and it’s a bit like the Ukraine war that’s going on at
The moment and hopefully that’ll be finishing soon a lot of people in Ukraine still reflect on the old Empire days of the Soviet Union yeah and they actually quite want Russia to because they felt that they were they were Russian yeah and then they got their independence as the Cold War ended so
Some people are actually like yeah I want to be Russian again um and there’s a lot of people in czechia and Poland who identify as being German and that’s why when we get to 1930 39 38 as well particularly is Hitler goes into Czech asaki and he takes back
What he essentially said was ours before the treaty yeah so the treaty motivat almost everything H was going to do extent that’s fair it was taken from them however you better signed it yeah it’s it’s it’s silly I do feel a bit sorry for him but
He didn’t have a choice he didn’t have a choice this Austria like that’s a bit like England and Scotland you know culturally we’re the same um Germany and Austria so they’re not allowed to what have not allowed to have any relations with Austria they just and that’s
Probably because like they would say but you that’s because of the war you went to help Austria so that’s a bit Petty really isn’t it but culturally that it’s again there’s family and relatives you know and obviously Hitler’s Austrian so perhaps that’s part that motivation uh
So they’ve also lost a few other the bits alas Lin that goes way back to the franor Prussian War like we said the Saro Fields it’s brutal isn’t it it really is so the Treaty of Si I don’t know what the Germans would say because I can’t speak German but it’d be
Something along the lines of what the hell definitely so what’s the word that we use beginning with d to describe they’ve been stabbed in the back no criminals and if it’s been forced upon them and EA had no choice what might the headline be in the newspaper you reckon dictat
Dictat dictat and again these words St dictat November criminals they are the seed that will grow has this treat is this treaty a dictat yeah yeah so whether you’re left wing right wing or Central or moderate every German when they read this the next day it’s a dict
And comes home forced upon them they didn’t have a choice if they go back to war we get they get M don’t they yeah so e comes home the next day and he goes hello everybody I have some news we’ve signed the treaty we’ve ended the war lovely lovely lovely anymore exactly
You’re Czech you’re polish I need to raise your taxes we’ve lost our army so anyone could invade oh dear oh dear so it’s a lot I don’t know if problem two has been so successfully no de with not quite what could possibly be problem three maybe another up
Not another Rebellion um so the cap PCH are we feeling sorry for re yet yeah oh definitely right let’s get into the C then all right so about like half a year after the treaty they’ve got another Rebellion but this time it’s a right-wing Rebellion so they can’t use
The fry CP because they are the fry was just about to say cuz he just not use the fry cor but no army they are the fry Army doesn’t fire on Army oh so what’s that mean so like because they’ve been comrades they been in the water yeah
They’re fire on your comrades it’s like in war you wouldn’t per intentionally fire your own it’s like comrade unless failed to in a way that we would sort of understand is if you have a friend you wouldn’t stab them in the back you wouldn’t and if ever there was a a group
Of people who are so tight and close because of the nature of their work it’s a soldier yeah so raiker does not fire on raiker the German army so oh dear he can’t use his little army friends now can so what’s caused this cap PCH this rightwing Rebellion then there’s the
Leader Wolf Gang cap good name yeah definitely good name so he felt what something about how they he felt used for the putting the down and then sacked yeah oh definitely which is fair yeah thanks for that Eber we’ve just come and put the Spartacus away for you now you s
Like all of this like all the treat of ver it’s a lot it’s a lot it’s so is it a respon the treat do you think I think so to be fair there 14 million of them unemployed now aren’t yeah so the frore being ex soldiers that’s that’s probably
A good reason why you might be angry definitely um I mean who wouldn’t be angry you know I’m angry listening to what I was talking today it makes me very angry and and I’ve always said it when I was at University I said it well
The treat say is the start of World War II is the is the cause of it it really is do Str is defin playing a part in this still isn’t it oh 100% still fearful of the Communists I mean who wouldn’t feel stabbed in the back you’ve
Just been fighting for 4 years get back home yeah for the SPID kiss and then lost my job he comes back and they’re like got some news you’re sacked it’s de easy saying it here now as this chat we’re having it’s easy to see why people were
Angry definely so all right so we cannot use the army so how on Earth is he going to deal with this one then ask him to strike I think he takes a bit of a chance here so he asks the berliners to go on strike so wolf cap is
Essentially taken over B 5,000 or so of them he’s trying to start a new government like yeah he just he wants he’s invited the Kaiser yeah back to Germany so he’s going to take his disgu want this new government so Ebert flees to viar again
Viar yeah and he urges the Berlin to go on strike and obviously well they do because well that’s all you got isn’t it yeah yeah so they so all like the major Services they stopped and cap just could not rule in all of this chaos so they in
A way they were successful they took control of Berlin they started their new government there’s weapons and artillery and guns all over Berlin I mean it’s kind of like the somehow sometimes it’s easy to take power but it’s keep it keeping it that’s the problem and
Cap was didn’t was not able to keep that power and he was arrested 4 days after the rebellion was over so he didn’t have quite a very long way what you’re telling me is that Eber has managed to potentially deal with this most dangerous challenge to him the soldiers
Yeah without really much fighting yeah so clever quite peaceful I mean for rebert so his strike little tactic is got in the back of his mind he’s sitting there all safe but of course if if you think about it it makes sense if the electricity goes off and the
Transport goes down and no one’s doing he definitely took a chance they’re not getting any Revenue how are they supposed to R he definitely took a chance though that they would well imagine imagine the bers joined well we said didn’t probably Kaiser would have came back like carried on and maybe they
Would never been another War it might have been the best thing to have happened but in this case EA and democracy out so 400 uh soldiers give or take were were involved in this but e didn’t punish them why he probably needs them on his side yeah they’ve helped him
Before like what if there’s another communist Uprising he’s going to need them if he punishes the the soldiers for this they’re going to kill him it’s going to be because there been about 287 or there’s been nearly 300 assassinations already in the first couple of years of
The the Republic so he’s not safe from that is he no so you could argue that made them look a bit Weak by backing down to them but essentially the cat putch is dealt with Ebert looks fairly strong yeah and he’s not punished the soldiers so maybe they’ve made he’s made
A deal with them all right so I understand why you’re angry there’s nothing I could do I’ll give you jobs or positions in the government I don’t know we need to be there wouldn’t we for that so this is where we are with all these people um so basically um we’ve got
Ourselves to 1923 he’s going to have two years of relative piece after that and then there’s going to be an invasion and that is going to be episode two for you isn’t it yeah episode two so we you’ll need to come back and listen to that one
So episode two so this one just to summarize really quickly we’ve got from from the war new government new government challeng and on it you’d say it’s on it knees already for the for the treaty ofi there’s the spartus Tre verai cat PCH could it be any worse could 1923 be any
Worse what you’ll have to find out you’ll have to come back and find out surely not let’s leave a cliff anger that maybe Ebert’s going to get some good luck well you an idea see they’re going to they’re going to have to find out so maybe something along the lines
Of they’re going to have to pay some reparations but they can’t pay any reparations what’s Eber going to do we shall see find look forward to having you back for episode two for this and hopefully everyone listening you’ll join us for that too and you found this interesting particularly as a revision
AG this this is really really good revision and we’ll listen to this next year and we’re going to try and make the1 it now um but honestly it’s been really really really interesting uh and I’ve liked having your little thoughts of in between and and what that means
And the reality cuz we’re trying to see this aren’t we Through The Eyes of normal Germans because it’s going to be the normal Germans that will vote for Hitler in 1933 it’s going to be the normal Germans decent people who are just so fed up and and as you’ve seen
Today in this episode look what they’ve been through you know yeah we haven’t even scratch easy to see why well just wait just’s another little spoiler coming just wait till you meet stman what a guy all right lovely so thank you very much again um and thanks for
Listening and we will be with you for the next episode very soon good evening take care bye bye