Meeting of the city plans panel my name is councilor Jim McKenna and I will will be chairing today’s meeting could I remind everyone that today’s meeting is being live streamed on the city council’s website so that the public can observe the meeting without needing to be present City plans
Panel deals with applications from the city center as well as the largest and most significant applications the council reive the aim of the panel is to hear all relevant information from applicants members of the public and Council officers to help members of the panel make their decisions could I now invite members and
Officers to introduce themselves and mute your microphone once you have done so if we could start on my left dalit please thank you chair I’m djit Singh I lead the central area planning team uh Robin cogin I’m uh the plan case officer in the central team good afternoon I’m Lisa Bron principal engineer
Highes good afternoon it’s councelor Caroline gruin good afternoon councelor Katy d uh good afternoon councelor asgar Khan good afternoon councelor Annie Maloney good afternoon Council K Brook good afternoon counc Peter car good afternoon Lewis fo part of the plans panel admin team hello Council Ryan Stevenson I’m councel Colin cbell good afternoon
Everyone good afternoon councelor Penny Stables good afternoon councelor Barry Anderson good afternoon Steven barley design officer good afternoon and Bo Clark to the panel good afternoon Amy Davis legal officer afternoon Jonathan car head of development management thank you for that uh moving on to item one on the agenda Andy
Please uh thank you chair under agenda item number one there are no appeals against the refusal of inspection of documents under item number two there is no exempt information on today’s agenda agenda under item number three there are no late items moving on to agenda item number four could I ask members if
They’ve got any interest to declare no moving on to agenda item number five we’ve got apologies today from councilors Blackburn and Cohen and we’ve got councelor Stevenson and Staples in attendance and substitutes chair thank you thank you for that Andy and welcome councelor Stevenson um
Can we move on then to agenda item six minutes of the meeting held on the 18th of January now I may I’ll go through it in my usual way Page seven page eight page nine one of our very rare short meetings that was any matters Arizon can somebody move them as a true
And correct record thank you Council gr second after for that all those in favor thank you moving on then to agend item seven Robin please if you’d introduced this thank you very much um just before I start I’ll just um draw attention to um a missing bit of
Text um standard text um in the uh recommendation box um in of the um panel report page page 11 um it normally says um that the section 106 will be needs to be completed within a certain time and it’s normally Co just copied over as standard and it wasn’t on this occasion
So um I just need to draw that to your attention so moving on to the presentation of the uh um paddle Court proposal um so if we could have well this the first set of slides um are actually photos of paddle courts um from other locations so
Um Lis yeah you just go through these um apparently paddle is the fastest growing sport in the world allegedly um but from these photos I think I think you can see that um it’s quite popular in city center locations uh there you can see baty Power Station they managed to fit one there
Um so this is uh this slide shows you the site um so as well as The Roundhouse building uh the site also includes the the backland uh the reason the scheme has to be determined by a panel is because the backland area is allocated for housing um it’s reference HG
2113 in the site allocation plan uh so the proposal has to be considered as a departure from the development plan next slide please um so everyone will have seen The Roundhouse building on the south side of Wellington Road um it’s grade two star listed um it was last occupied
As a vehicle hire business but it’s been vacant for several years now um next slide please so this is the backland area um here they’re proposing five outdoor courts you can see it’s largely tarmac and hardstanding uh on the left you can see proximity of uh new block of flats
That’s part of the Donas the monkbridge site and to the right you can see offices that are in the half roundhouse building that’s across the other side of um grer way um you can see there that they were re-roofing um The Roundhouse um I took that shot um last summer um when they
Were doing it but those who were on the site visit this morning will have seen that um that that work’s all being completely finished that didn’t need planning permission because it was a complete um replacement of um of what was there a re Roofing of what was there and it yeah
It’s all finished now uh next slide please so this is a slightly raised platform adjacent to the donca monkbridge site and they’re proposing car parking and car parking access along there next slide please this is the area of backland that stretches Eastward towards the canal it was originally proposed as phase two of
The paddle Court scheme but it’s now been withdrawn from the application next slide please so the front for court um and the applicants here are agreeable to giving up some land to assist with the Footbridge uh Improvement um and also land for a wider foot path and cycle path next slide please
Here you can see inside The Roundhouse um again I took this one in the summer um and the paddle courts are proposed to sit in this outer ring and the central element will have the changing rooms and toilets Etc uh the conservation officer is supportive of the use generally the
Courts won’t require any harmful building alterations and they’ll fit quite comfortably in the space only involving removal of modern additions next slide please so this slide shows the housing allocation of the site allocation plan um it’s the dark brown lozenge um some some of the rest of
The um lines are a bit washed out on this but you can you can just see where the roundhouse would be at the left hand end um it measures um 9 sorry. n99 of a hectare and it covers all of the backl area as I say not including the roundhouse itself next slide
Please so to overcome the objection um to the housing allocation the applicant agreed to do three things uh first of all remove phase two from the application um effectively that’s half of the housing allocation um so you can see the area to the right uh outlined in blue um that’s
Taken out of this planning application and it’s there as part of the housing allocation that could be developed for housing the second thing that they’ve done is the propos The Proposal is for temporary use just for 10 years rather than permanent and also they provided a letter from the land owner
Um that clarifies that the landowner doesn’t intend to offer the site for Housing Development um in fact um before the application was made the landowner was unaware that the site was allocated for housing it was one of lead City council’s suggest suggestions in the site allocation plan
And not one of the um landowner lead type ones I mean it’s also when some of the other benefits are that it would mean safeguarding a Heritage building uh and it’s also threading a Leisure facility into um support a quite high density residential area next slide please
So this slide shows all of the proposals um so was hoping to have the pointer here but in the rhouse building itself to the left um there’s five courts proposed um in the the center um that’s where the um facilities such as um changing rooms and
Toilets would be um you can see that that purple circle is where the reception would be um just inside the entrance you can see to the right that there will be five outdoor courts um there’ll also be a um a vehicle oneway system coming in off grer
Way going down to the South to the back of the of the of the site and along and then back out onto rers way um there’s up to 28 car parking spaces with four disabled spaces immediately in front of the the reception um there’ll be 40
Short stay uh cycle spaces um you can see those on the on the sort of top side out outside um there’s no clear pedestrian paths um in the outdoor area area um there’s a service Bay um and there’s quite a lot of landscaping plots that have been added in those locations
Where it it can be fitted in next slide please uh this is East Elevation basically there’s very little change here um and then the next slide please um these highlight the two modern um vehicle doors that have been added um recently and the applicant is agreeable um to um the original openings
Being reinstated and you’ll see that on the next drawing please and then the next slide please um here you can see the proposed internal layout with the courts around the outer area and the changing rooms toilets and caf in the center next slide please and this section shows that the
Toilets and changing areas will not have separate ceilings um that will keep the central Lantern exposed and help retain the original historic Integrity of the building and the next slide please um so you can see the scale of the courts um the outdoor courts um they’re a lot smaller than the
Roundhouse building that you can see to the right hand side of the of the drawing um which is fairly small in the this city center context anyway um and then the final slide please and so this gives you the elevation of a court um it’s mostly 3 MERS
Or the fencing around the side is mostly 3 MERS high it’s four MERS at the ends and there’d be uh six meter uh lighting columns so that that’s it for me thank you thank you Robin um there are no objectors wishing to speak um but we
Have uh the agent here Simon Burgess we met him on site and he was most helpful so if you have questions that uh you want to put to them I can bring them forward at uh at your request okay questions to officers then please please Council C I’m sorry thank you yeah
Um just around the allocation side maybe more of a question for D but um so I gather it was allocated for 310 properties obviously half of the allocation isn’t coming forward anymore so that’s protected so maybe we’re down on the allocation of 150 Properties or such um based on the sites that we’ve
Had allocated in the city center area like this are we seeing typically that we’re achieving more um higher density than we expected in the allocations plan so are we are we ahead in terms of housing delivery in this area should should I be concerned that that this would take effectively 150 houses out
Out of that plan Peter bring d judan uh I I don’t think we need to be concerned about achieving the allocation figures my experience is that that those allocation Figures were based on a set formula which uh was based on average density across the authority area so including Suburban scale housing as well
As City Center type housing which are typically blocks of flats blocks of flats are much higher development you get much more units on a smaller area of land than the Suburban type of Housing and typically in the city center we’ve been achieving much greater number of units than the site allocations have
Been suggesting so um you only have to look at what’s happened on the other side of the biod duct in this particular site uh to see the scale of development and blocks of flats uh that have been built and if if if something similar came along we we’d easily achieve the 300 alloc
Allocation uh 300 unit allocated on this site thank you um yeah just to add to that um the local plans team uh provided me with some stats um prior to the meeting uh because we thought this sort of question might come up and um at the moment um I
Mean based on the 20 2023 strategic housing land availability assessment um which I think’s just fairly recently been published um we have a pretty healthy Supply actually um there’s very large numbers of units in in the pipeline at the moment um there’s a 10year supply of 42 over 42,000 dwellings um 5year Supply
26,000 dwellings um and uh the overwhelming majority on site currently under construction um or with detailed planning permission um there’s 7.7 year supply of housing um and that’s much much better than when I was in local plans team a long time ago um and um there’s a 6.8 year Supply um of
Dwellings that have detailed planning permission already um and the current pipeline of sites has got 100 active Outlet out outlets um in excess of 6,000 units under construction and the majority of those are in the city center on On The Fringe So currently we’re in a
Very good position really and able to um forego um the relatively small amount of housing on on this site if if we want to and I mean I would also mention that the applicants have agreed to this being a temporary um permission for for 10 years
Um so after 10 years all of the courts would be removed um and that part of the site would become available um for Housing Development then and that’s like that’s we may well be in a different position then um with higher housing targets possibly where this land
Would be needed for housing then but um we have a pretty comfortable Supply um elsewhere at the moment thank you Robin is that okay pet uh Council KH please uh thank you chair on page 21 and from the site visit this morning uh the first impression was the area has transformed uh and
Uh on page 21 uh 7.35 uh Robin uh it says there’s no objection from uh POS up from Transportation noise but environment Health should have been consulted with regards of an other potential noise issue has there any been consultation with the environment health and also uh
While we were while we were at the site this morning uh the other developments were really close to this proposed development will it have any impact um well just going to that part of the report um paragraph 7.35 um you know that’s a literal statement of what um the consult
Um of Environmental Studies transport noise said and we actually have two Consultants um environmental health consultants and advise us on uh noise one is based in the um sort of Transport section is more concerned with traffic noise and um with the proximity of the a58 road uh there is a lot of background
Um quite high traffic noise um relatively in in in that location and I think what what that can consult consult is saying specifically is make sure that we consult the other um uh con consulty um which which we did and um on on that particular matter um we had asked the uh
Developer to provide um a noise impact ass assessment um they had trouble being able to do that because of paddle being such a new sport in in the UK and they’re not being a kind of track record of these uses being um measured and uh assessed um so without that information um that
Could justify um you know well the the applicants originally applying um to open um to 11:30 at night um so the recommendation from the environmental health officer is that the opening hours should be restricted to 9:00 um every evening except Sunday Sunday would be six o’cl um and if it’s subsequently
Found that um the the courts aren’t as noisy as people expected then they would have the evidence and they’d be able to apply to um to extend the hours at a later point you for Rob Okay g can I just come back to just briefly um Robin I think it would be
Ideal if we got the uh report from the developer on the noise uh but it has not been provided but I think we can put as the condition uh the developer does provide the uh noise report for this development um it’s just that we were told that um the information might not
Be available um but we we could ask them to measure um the the use once it’s up and running um that could be conditioned C cbell please yeah a couple of points when we were on site um if you go back to the original red line
Drawing um where the site’s been cut in half the there was a ramp that took you up to what was the Old Railway line um where the new flats are uh which you can see on there right what happens to that do do it does are there any rights of access over that
To get you well presumably in the old days to get you up onto the well line that existing ramp will be demolished taken away and uh the um I think there is an existing ramp that just kind of SL turns round um and that yeah that that’s not I just wondered about the
Access second point I’m about to open a kind of worms here why six o’clock on Sunday I only asked the question because if this was a residential development we’d be ask asking for a lot of noise mitigation uh but it’s not um it’s effectively a sport facility are we trying to mitigate the
Noise from the sports facility or are we trying to mitigate the noise from the road what what we’re trying to do is control the operation of of the paddle costs in such a way that they don’t create a nuisance to the new residents next door so that that’s the purpose for
The hours restrictions in the absence of uh evidence which shows how noisy the activity will be and hence what the potential impact might be on residents next door what we’re what we’re saying and what we’ve agreed with the applicant is that they don’t operate at times when residents can reasonably expect uh AC
Quier environment and when they’re trying to settle down for the evening and go to bed uh so it’s a bit of rest bite for the residents so it this activity if it is noisy doesn’t operate late Into the Night thank you um question about energy use of the building thinking about the
Energy that’s going to be used by the cafe by uh the showering facilities do we know what is proposed in terms of energy Supply um we were we were told on site by the um by the surveyors that um there wouldn’t be any heating of the
Um of the the indoor court area uh because it’s they said it’s not needed um for for the use that is intended um I I I would I would think that the energ use of the um you know the toilets and cloak rooms would be relatively small really but I
Don’t have the information uh to hand um it might be something that the architect could advise them will your permission I perhaps I bring the agent forward Simon if you would or irrelevant the architect even better yes not even better for Simon but okay did you hear the question would you like it
Repeated this one working yeah can you repeat the question for me please yeah so my question was about energy use by things such as the showers and hot water in Cafe and and changing rooms um what what proposals do you have for a source of energy uh well the The Roundhouse will
Obviously already have a power supply um like the like Robin’s already said there is no proposal to put heating in into the court areas because it just simply isn’t needed um quite clearly um upon any kind of approval we would need to engage with an m& consultant to Bly
Design the uh the the systems be put in place that includes anything from obviously the the hot water for the showers lighting uh I do know that the client does promote the use of low energy lighting they particularly do that on the external courts as well excuse me so they are very energy
Conscious they they do actively promotee green technologies in their other facilities that they that they have in the UK and more specifically in Europe so again I would go back to that there would need to be a fully detailed design um but in place uh should any approval come forward
Yeah thank you I’m just to to have it on record that I would be Keen to see it as an extremely sustainable development thank you absolutely thank you uh can I ask you to remain just in case there’s any further questions if you don’t mind thank you um councilor gruan
Please thank you um just picking up on councelor Campbell’s question about um the purpose of timing the use of the courts and noise impact I just wonder if you could give us an indication of how much noise impact there will be made by those paddle courts on the
Neighbors in any way able to quantify it in any way I that that’s the issue we’re not able to quantify it because the evidence isn’t there no one’s measured uh what this activity is over any sort of uh length of time um but it it’s Ain it’s to tennis or
Squash so there are people you know exerting themselves playing tennis probably shouting it’s an outdoor you know it’s not F it’s it’s fenced in but it’s not insulated in anywhere um there’ll be some protection obviously for the indoor courts because they’ll be within the building um so it’s a preventative measure in terms
Of the hours of use we we we we we know that the city center environment is noisy because of Ro traffic and and other activity Etc but that noise tends to drop off into the evening when business is shut Etc and background noise levels drop so that’s why the hours are as
Suggested thanks djit I’d like to make a comment based on that response would you would you prefer me to make it in the comments section yes yeah that’s fine uh councilor Staples please and welcome to planning thank you for standing in for Council Blackburn thank you chair um this
Question relates to the health of those participating in the sport and I just wondered whether we’d considered given the proximity of the outside courts to this very busy road the impact of air pollution on those that were doing sport so close to that busy road um I I have to say we haven’t
Actually considered that um but um I mean generally um our feeling is that um the addition of sport facilities and Leisure facilities like these in in the city center um is a positive thing really for um there’s so many so many City Center residents now with so many new Flats um
It’s it’s got to be positive really that they have places where that they can exercise and recreate and um you know get fitter and do physical activity um I mean um it’s probably no worse than people jogging in the city center um and uh but I’m afraid we don’t really have any
Um any sort of evidence or figures on what that kind of impact would be councilor Staples I I was going to invite the architect he might he might not be able to inform us or give us some information on that he may not I don’t know and then you can come
Back all I would say is that of of the facilities they’ve already provided in the UK they are in city center locations um I think there’s at least one in in London you saw the the facility outside of battery and um it it is seen as a
Healthy sport I to take totally take on board the comments but again I decide with Robin on that and say that there’s plenty of other sports and uh including jogging that that go on inside the city centers and cycling as well but I don’t have any other evidence other than that I’m
Afraid you for that Council Staples thank you J um yeah it was just a concern because whilst I completely agree that and I’m absolutely Ely in favor of increasing participation in sport um and that obviously those inside the building will be will be fine I was just concerned because it’ already been
Noted that that’s an extremely busy road so whereas in the city center we’re reducing the amount of traffic and therefore the amount of pollution that’s not likely to happen anytime soon I guess on that road that that was my concern thank you thank you uh any further questions I’ve seen on my hand
A question yes please actually there were a couple of questions one is that we uh we are ambitious to be a child friendly City and this is in effect a sports center isn’t it I just wondered if there were any measures being taken to make it child friendly not specifically play
Necessarily but family friendly shall we say and I’ve got another one as well so I think that my PC yeah so on on the the child friendly um sport the client um was was Keen to point out and we I think we put it in some of the design
Documentation that there are free T taster sessions it’s all inclusive and there are school programs as well to try and get children in involved um it’s also a sport whereby um the the facility actually provides a lot of the equipment it’s it’s not it’s not something they they want people to spend
An awful lot of money on they they they actively want people to come in to the facility uh and Community is is high on their agenda I mean one they do like to do they like to 10% of any of their profits towards the local community in
Agreement with the the local Parish um but again inclusivity including children’s use and school’s use is is Paramount great thank you Council gr my second question uh was about the actually I did bring it up at the visit but for the sake of the meeting I think
It would be good to have the information laid out so I completely get the inside of the roundhouse being a valuable asset and attractive and that you’re building the courts in that and maintaining the original structure to be visible but what I was more concerned about was it
All looks at the moment a bit Tatty and a bit dirty and a bit def B and and so on and I’d like to know the measures that you’re going to take for what kind of finish we can expect to see it in in its final form yeah completely agree the obviously
There’s been some issues with the roof and the gutters in particular which has caused Greening on the um on the facades there’s also been some elements of the facade that have have had modern alterations that we wouldn’t necessarily agree with um we’ve always maintained our stance to the client that we would
Look to reinstate original fixures we absolutely necessary and that’s what we’ve shown to do in terms of the cleaning we we we don’t want to strip everything back so it looks shiny and brand new because it’s it’s a great two star listed assets but there are certain
Things that we can do and we would be we would be suggesting to the client that they they do a light nonabrasive clean almost like a doth system so that we can take off the the the dirt and the grind that’s accumulated because of the faults that the buildings had uh we
Don’t want to necessarily remove all the industrial staining that’s gone on that shows the historical context of the building but we are looking to to strip back some of the the dirt and the grime that that has accumulated over time through fols like Lecky gutters and just
General on a better phrase abuse of the building really I haven’t seen any more questions can we have comments is that a question come in Kaye then please thanks thanks chair um so um it’s it’s just going back to what you’re saying about the school programs have you got
Any will there be any um Outreach work to like children and families that are run lower incomes to to support children into into activity that they might not be able to afford otherwise yeah um again the client has ke to point out that there are free sessions for people on on Lower incomes
Unemployed um they they really want to try and get the community into the sport um and again there’s also reductions in in cost for sort of blue badge uh members and NHS uh people are like but yeah anyone on Lower incomes would be fully supported so what what sort of price point would
That be how affordable would it actually be for people I’m not aware of the actual numbers unfortunately I’m I’m I’m only the architect on the scheme okay thank you for that uh good good to have somebody there who can answer questions thank you on issues that do spring up at planning meetings
Uh they’re often uh happen as we walk around and look at things and the questions spring up automatically but thank you for being there I know Simon was most helpful on site and we appreciate that also can we move on to comments please Kelsey gr you said you needed a
Comment so give other people a chance to um yeah so the the comment I was attaching to the response that dalic gave me earlier was about the noise impact and it was just to say that um based on personal experience of working with communities that have pitches
Within their reach in terms of sound uh the comments that I’ve received have been very much that well you might have said stop play at 9:00 but actually by the time people are showered and going home in their cars and shouting their goodbyes and all the things people do
After they’ve done a sports match it actually goes on longer than the time we’ve said the play must stop so it might be worth if there is going to be a significant noise impact I mean when I was on site this morning I I wasn’t thinking there would be a big impact but
If there is a sizable impact then I think we ought to be thinking about shorter times and finishing an hour before you expect the noise level to to have gone down because although the the ma the match will have stopped other activities continue that’s the first
Point um I’d just like to say overall I do think it’s a good scheme and an imaginative use of The Roundhouse building and I do welcome um you know preserving some of the Heritage asset as well as providing something that will be of good Community use so I think it’s a
A really good scheme um I’m a bit underwhelmed by the comments on Green Space um I know it’s difficult but I I need to say what I feel about the scheme uh which is there’s a a patch of green next to it which leads to the canal as
We saw on the presentation I know it’s in is it in different ownership did I understand that piece different ownership um the whole site is in um the same ownership and uh the paddle Court use is going to take a lease um for for
10 years on part of it well I just feel that that that patch of green there could be really creatively used and add to the feel of the the sports and the Leisure and it would be so good to develop that in in that sort of way even
If it was just for a 10-year use along with the pitches any further Council Campbell s well I think there are there are two basic questions aren’t there number one is the uh the principle um and I think it’s a sort of split principle isn’t it
Because I think all of us who were there this morning um really would like to get the round uh the roundout back into use um it’s a fascinating building um I’ve been down there before uh when they first re revitalized that bit of area and refurbished it so it’s some time ago um
And it’s a much bigger building than I recall having walked around the inside it’s it really is a significant building and anybody who hasn’t had a chance to go down has missed an opportunity in my opinion um I I think however we then have to ask the question
About the rest of the site um and as you say it’s a um technically a housing site but I think looking at all the development uh in that particular area we’re standing on site today there are hundreds and hundreds of flats going up there I think we might just be able to
Lose this if it provides a facility I think probably mostly aimed at the people who live in those Flats Round about um and it it strikes me that this is is a relatively modern sport um not one I’ve ever partaken of um or actually intend to do probably but um I
Think it it’s aimed at the younger a younger element perhaps younger than me I should say um and so I I’m I’m slightly um I don’t know what’s the word um in relation to the the the the the times because I do think that a lot of
The people who live in the flats roundabout there will be coming home from work uh and that gives them a slot in the evening to use this facility they couldn’t use it during the day uh and I just wonder about the hours and I take on board Caroline’s point
About if it’s football club for example you do get the after match shouting and yelling uh I’m sure I’m not sure that n i i I’m surprised to hear myself say it but I’m not sure whether 9:00’s the right time actually I would have said 10
Might be better uh um but in the end I suppose we Su it and see don’t we uh nine o’ seems reasonable as a test um providing me into a sort of condition which says the lights go off at 10:00 um we’ve done that on a number of all weather Sports pictures recently
Um I I like Caroline when we were on site this morning this is a fairly bare unappealing site um and I’ve picked up on the the points everybody’s made about um the the pollution associated with the road which is significant uh the noise is significant and I think there’s a missed
Opportunity here for some much improved uh environmental Landscaping about this site uh not withstanding what officers told me on site this morning much of it seems slightly token uh it that famous window box um approach I think there is scope uh across much of the site for much more planting much more screening
Planting particularly uh um against the uh the road and the plus point about the about extra planting of course is it helps clean up the atmosphere and it it seems to me that though I am happy to um to bring the roundhouse back into use I think that’s a
Plus I have no issues in setting aside I suppose the housing element for effectively a leisure element which will benefit the people who live in the area but at the moment I can’t support this because I just don’t think we’re doing enough to Green up either the site or
That bit of the city uh and it’s I’m slightly reluctant to say it but it means that I I’m I’m reluctant to vote for this because I think much more could be done to improve the environment in that area not just for the people who use this but for the surrounding area
Thank you chair Colin Council Anderson please just briefly um I I think this is a great idea I really do think it’s an excellent opportunity uh for the site to bring this back in again um and in terms of its location as we found out when we
Went for a nice walk afterwards it is sustainable it’s in a good and there are vast numbers of people within no more than 5 10 minutes at the most who could actively use this as their Leisure facility on site there a lot of people who live in many housing
Areas would love to have a facility of some description as close to their house so I think it’s a sustainable use of the site um and in terms of the point that Colin just made about the boundary treatment I’m happy to def fair and delegate to officers you’ve heard what’s
Been said and to say to you you know go and do your best to see what you can you can manage to get out of it but but I’m quite happy to support it today are you prepar to move it you okay we’ll come back to that but thank you any further
Comments um I’m going to bring dalan in regarding the hours I see if there’s a suggestion that might satisfy some of the concerns thank you chair I understand the point councilor gr is making that uh even if the courts are stopped being used the it could still be noisy as
People leave the site uh I think we did have that in mind and that’s why we’re proposing the hours or negotiate the hours as we have with the applicant at 9:00 uh because normally in a city center environment the background noise levels don’t really start dropping off
Um until after 11: you know when when other Leisure type uses uh road traffic noise dies down and people are not moving around so much um so hopefully that would have given allowed plenty of time between 9 and 11 before people can reasonably be expected to be try to get
To sleep um for for that kind of activity to take place but we can if members want us to we can look at that uh a bit more closely we can definitely be much clear about when the lights are off uh and make sure the lights are off
As as Council Campbell suggested by 10:00 the other thing I’ve noted is that we are proposing a condition in as well as the hours restriction we are proposing a condition which asks the operator to come up with a nice noise management plan which includes will include engagements for a complaints
Procedure for how you know if there are issues on site how they will address those uh and and hopefully that will also help them be good neighbors ultimately it is a case of seeing how this goes and then being able to control it through those conditions um
And you know I think hopefully with the hours restriction and the noise management plan there won’t be a problem going forward um just following on really from uh what councelor Campbell said in terms of the tree planting I think that’s an excellent idea in terms of mitigating
For the air pollution is that something you can add on as a condition does want to come in um we we are still in negotiations with with with the applicants about the landscaping and uh the areas that have been shown on the plan um are really just the locations in in principle and
There there there’s more discussions to be had in terms of the actual um uh plants and types types of trees and so forth um but um I’m sure on the you wouldn’t have been able to see the small annotated print on on the drawing but um
I I think it’s talking about um five trees to the front um in front of the the road um and some trees um to the rear and our landscape officer will be involved in the negotiations we will definitely maximize the amount of trees and the the largest
Um sort of vegetation that can be provided um so we’ll definitely try and max out on on that council cbell do you want to to p as dhip was talking that I’m sorry to keep going on about it as D was talking there it did strike me that we’ve got
Effectively outdoor courts and indoor courts now the noise from outdoor courts I’m I’m sure would could create an issue but I don’t think I can’t see the noise from the indoor corpse causing that much of a problem um and so it would seem to me it might be reasonable says he
Dangerously to say 9:00 or whatever it is switch off of the lights outside but actually allow them to use the inside until 10 or maybe even 11 and can I come back to the the planting one of the things that you’ll find if you sit on this long enough is
That we end up with this their negotiations still happening I think I need to say very very clearly unless you can say to me the negotiations will in effect double that the amount of planting you’re showing on that plan then I can’t support this the whole
Front of the building next to the road if I look at the plan isn’t required for the development the ex the entrances at the rear um the car Parks all at the rear so the whole of that space at the front between The Roundhouse and the road is
Not required for the development now you’re going to tell me there’s a cycle L go ah in okay well when the cycle L goes in that’s fine but everywhere else we’ve got a flower bed on there and five trees that’s I’m sorry it’s just not enough these days you know development
Plans panel will be asking you for a heck of a lot more than that once the ldf comes through so we need I’m sorry unless we’re prepared to say no we need to put a lot more in I I’m not supporting this uh did you want to come back in Lisa you
You’re very welcome in you want yes just to confirm there will be a cycle Lane yes in that line but a cycle a cycle L does not stop you using the rest of the site does it you know a cycle land’s only what two meters wide okay um I think we’re nearly there
For deciding folks uh PE sorry yeah thanks chair I wasn’t going to come in but I think I’m looking at this and I couldn’t help thinking when some of the comments were that if if somebody was coming forward for a bar here then we’d probably accept that it’s
A fantastic building that you could do that and we would probably limit outside drinking at 10:00 perhaps and then let them carry on till midnight inside as they would at most of the other venues I don’t personally see a problem with noise from I can’t see that noise from
That roundhouse is going to put off residents Ro far to be honest you know we used to have Majestic nightclub there and I doubt many complaints came from residents nearby that at 2 amm um so I’m not particularly too fussed about the noise indoors the noise Outdoors I’m not
Really that fussed about here next to arm rater I think the the sound of people enjoying themselves is probably better than the sound you’d get constantly so I’m reasonably flexible over those hours and I think probably Colin’s suggestion of having longer hours is better I’d rather it was a good
Facility for those people who live there who have fewer activities fewer possibilities of having active lifestyles in the city center as you do if you live out in uh in in further areas in terms of The Greening there’s probably more that can be done in the
Site but I think this a positive use of that site and it retains the the um uh Heritage building that that I love looking at as I go past so I’m reasonably happy with what we got here it could have been a lot worse a housing developer could have come built a
Massive monstrosity behind it that meant you could practically not see the the the Heritage asset that’s there so I’m I’m quite happy with this as as something and I’m happy if we decide to extend the hours beyond what what is noted Peter I think we Bel do do you
Want to sum up what we need to rec to cons so it’s clear that in in terms of the principle there’s General support uh around the table um and that the the potential loss of this as a housing site for a temporary period is is not an
Issue for members uh there were two main detail matters one was discussion around the potential for noise impact uh and I think what’s coming forward is is is um a position where members are comfortable with perhaps longer hours than we’ve suggested in the report but inside for activity inside The
Roundhouse um and then we monitor uh the activity the external activity um as part of the noise management plan um in terms of the The Greening uh I I not uh the the the the different comments Council Anderson’s comments was you know to to allow that to be left to officers
To to uh to try and improve as best we can um not withstanding that there is already uh an enhancement on on the existing councilor Campbell clearly has a very different view uh it’s for members as a whole for panel as a whole to take a view on that uh for those that
Went on site they’re clearly in terms of the areas that are subject of the application there clearly isn’t a lot of landscaping at the moment apart from some shrub at the extreme edges there there’s no trees to speak of uh this proposal will bring forward significant improvements in terms of planting
Opportunities including for new trees we will by all means have a look at the frontage again as Council Campbell in particularly wants us to do but members will have to take a view on what’s before them thank you you um Caroline do you think before we take
That view we ought to hear from the developers about what their views are about what we’ve said on greenspace and how willing they would be to to relook at it oh I have certainly no objection if that’s a request to members we could uh invite our architect along
Again yeah I can well taking all the points on board U with regard to planting I mean the the Landscaping was something that we had initially discussed with the ecologist consultant when they looked at the uh biodiversity net gains um and actually the site came across is that it
Didn’t need any biodiversity net gains however we don’t see that as been a positive of sight which is why we’ve tried to sneak in some planting where we think it feasible I take on board the comments about the space that’s edged in blue to the right which is the land that we’re
Still keeping for the residential use if we’d have known when we were drawing up the proposed for the planting that we could actually use that space as part of providing F the planting I’m sure we would have done that on the plan but we just simply just went up to that red
Edge again I’m happy to extend the planting levels at the front of the building what we don’t want to do though is completely obscure the building there it is a fantastic building it’s very unique um you’re lucky to have it as a city and it’s in remarkably good condition
Really given the changes of use that it’s had over the over its history um I think the overall gain of actually bringing this building back into and allowing the public to use it while also increasing the level of Green Space around it is certainly advantageous um again we would be happy
To look at that rear boundary in particular um and provide a bit more tree planting along that age and we can also look a little bit at the front but I’m I’m not so keen on a lot of tree planting or certainly trees that are going to grow to a certain height
Because you’re just going to obscure what is a fantastic looking building thank you that that’s most helpful that’s most helpful thank you um are we ready to uh look at the recommendation I’ve had a move by councel Anderson is there a second Peter are you prepared a second you very
Strongly okay all those in favor then please show okay thank you uh those against those absent thank you Colin um I think that’s fine are we happy with our assurances that uh um we when it’s defered and delegated that we could leave it to officers to decide on the
Landscaping the extra Landscaping as proposed are we happy with that yeah it Sayes it coming back I mean he he’s been very for coming really as a gentleman hasn’t he so yeah yep okay can I say to people who went on the site visits this morning
Really missed a great walk um it was and we we digress and we’re not on the planning application we’re talking about our nice walk people who’s been on planning a long time will know that the Old Railway uh Viaduct that’s listed I believe it’s Leeds and th Railway of
Course not operating now it hasn’t been for maybe a century I don’t know uh was based on the Highline in New York I don’t know if any of you have been to the Highline in New York I have’t think I’ve been to New York several times always meant to go but it
Was always too much to do in New York so I’ve never done it but we actually walked from uh that side The Roundhouse to the one and wall Road the next one and we walked on top and it was absolutely fantastic uh I did say to members this is all you’re doing with
Are great officers and this is what we’ve got it’s not quite finished yet underneath the Arches there’s going to be cafes and you can walk a ground level uh so it’ll be magnificent if you haven’t seen it do please walk it’s amazing inner city park really I don’t
Know how long it is but must be about 300 odd yards or meters but it’s really good d and for those uh for those who who say well what about what about people with disabilities well his elevators do hat an elevator to take them up to the higher level I carefully
Put took a photograph of the elevators because if I put on Facebook I’m sure that will come out me what about disabled people well they hat it for it’s fantastic and we should be rightly proud I said to every one of them clap each other around the back you’ve done a
Marvelous job here so moving on anyway after the yeah for yeah yeah yeah was great keep doing it keep doing it uh can I move on then to uh page 45 agenda item eight wait till Andrew gets in place when you ready Andrew thank you chair members may remember
That this site was previously presented as a pre-application in August of last year this application follows um the pre-application advice that was given and seeks consent for an office development on an allocated site of which the initial outline consent was granted back in 2007 with development
Commenced on all of the sites except for this one next slide please Lewis so the site is outlined in red in this slide um and it is located to the north of whiteall road with the canal and River uh to the East and Railway embankment to the West next slide
Please this slid just gives um some various views around the site to give members who were not on the site visit a little more context of the area which are taken from along whiteall Road and whiteall in image two you can see latitude red which was the building
First built on this site um and then in image five you can see latitude purple B which is the most recent development which is due to be complete I believe in April of this year next slide please leis in terms of the ongoing regeneration which has already taken
Place to this area of whiteall Road the site is in Yellow Block on this slide um the monk Bridge vidu development is to the Far North with latitude purple B in front and latitude red to the east the concentered get living mixed use development is located to the south of
Whiteall Road um and the spring Wells Gardens is to the Southwest beyond the railway line next slide please and this just provides a clear visualization of the evolving character of developments which have been concentered and built out to this area of the city center the site is in
Red um the blue buildings are under construction and some of these are nearly complete consisting of latitude purple B and spring whe Gardens the buildings in yellow are ones which have been concentered and development hasn’t yet commenced and the ones in purple are buildings which are still under
Consideration so just before we move on to the details of the proposal I just want to mention that since the report was printed we have received a further letter of representation from councelor carile who wishes to express his full support for this proposal next slide please
Leis um The Proposal is for a 12-story office building with ground floor Cafe and co-working space with landscap and Improvement improvements proposed along whiteall Road whiteall and to the west of the building there is a total of 10 car parking spaces spaces which will all be electric vehicle charge enabled and a
Total of 138 long stay cycle spaces to be provided and a new by directional cycle Lane will also be located to the north of whiteall Road next slide please leis so these next um slides just show the floor plans of the building the mezzanine area will feature cycle
Parking and the changeing facilities for staff to promote sustainable travel methods next slide please this is just um the typical flaw plan of the officers office next slide and then this um The Proposal will also feature a Southern Roof Terrace for employees as well as a breakout space
Which will feature soft landscaping and a living wall next slide please oh yeah um and these are just some examples to give members an idea of the living wall which is proposed to the roof Terrace and which will be provided within that roof area next slide please
The next slides are to give members an idea of the elevational treatment of the buildings which will be highly ordered with regular grid Arrangements of brick with Windows set into reveals and inclusion of textured aluminum a green wall is also located to the um main entrance of the building on the southern
Elevation if we go to the next slides leis yeah just next slide please next slide next slide and these um these next slides are just looking at the detail colonades of the building which as I mentioned will feature living walls with the amount of glazing also proposed which will offer
Natural surveillance towards whiteall and whiteall Road next slide please this is just a detailed elevation of the roof Terrace which will feature again to living walls next slide so as mentioned the proposal will also feature a number of landscaping and improvements the improvements to the east will create a green buffer between
Between the proposed development with landscaping and seating for people to sit the Landscaping proposed to the north along whiteall consists of shade tolerant planting with climbing plants used on the Alum aluminium perforated clad into the ground floor the main access into the building is from the south in which Landscaping will consist
Of tree planting with a mixture of um with mixture along the frontage to soften the building’s appearance the planting would also sit alongside the council’s Improvement Works along whiteall Road including a bidirectional cycle way and then vehicular access into the site is from whiteall which leads into
The car park to the west of the building beyond the car park an area of landscaping is proposed which will feature plant tree planting areas of seating and and improved north south pedestrian link set within the landscaped area it has also been confirmed um since our visit this morning that the existing hoing
Structure on site will be removed as part of this development next slide please leis and so members um at the pre-application present presentation related to the concerns of the heritage of the site and how this could be incorporated into the final design the response to these comments the applicant has confirmed that the
Approach to Landscaping considers the historical use of the site and draws inspiration and reference to the Mainer fire in halfes and the cart tracks via the routs through the landscaping and the shapes within the landscaped the hard landscaped areas these are just some of the possible external interpretation features which could be
Used including signs about the history of the site all these details will be conditioned as part of any approval next slide please leis the history of the site will also be carried through the internal fabric of the building via the materiality tones textures used and these are just
Some examples of how this could be used through the internal fabric of the building next slide please um so since securing the initial planning permission in 2007 the site was marketed but at the time did not appear attractive to the markets and the site has laid dormant despite the various
Developments which had been carried out around the proposal will now deliver a grade A office building which which will provide procure all electricity from Renewables with Landscaping to support ecology promotion of sustainable methods of travel and potential of a future proof connection to the lead’s district heat Network initial evidence which has been
Provided States the development is also on track to achieve accreditation of a briam outstanding next slide please so the next few slides are just some cgis of the building this is taken from whiteall Road um and you can see the proposed soft Landscaping along whiteall Road and also along
Whiteall and along with the proposed cycle Lane next slide please this is just from the Western landscaped area within the parking area and with the parking area in the background and just shows the various tones and textures which could be used in this space next slide please this view is from whiteall with
Latitude purple B to the left and the vehicular access point to the right next slide please um this view is taken from the rear of latitude red which shows the proposed landscap in Al whiteall and also the consented get living development which is in the background of this image next slide
Please this is a bird’s eye view of the western side of the building with latitude purple B to the left and the consented get living development within the background next slide please this is a CGI the proposed roof Terrace and how this may look including the living walls in the background next slide
Please and this is just a visualization of the internal ground floor area with the cafe and co-working space in the background next slide please um members May note that within the report in front of you there is a requirement for offsite wind mitigation to the southern side of whiteall road
Road which is the purple line on this plan this mitigation is only required in the event that the get living development to the south of whiteall road is built as consented since finalizing the report I’ve also noticed there’s an error in the wording of par 10.39 which states in the event that
This application is consented this should be worded as implemented as consent was already granted in 2021 so in the way of a verbal update on this element and since final izing the report we have now met with Highway colleagues who have agreed that the details of this mitigation can be
Secured via an obligation within the legal agreement and this would also remove the condition 37 which is currently drafted the report in the report in front of you next slide leis please and this slide is just to give members an idea of potential mitigation and design ideas which could be introduced and this
Screen is only required if the development m to the self is built out and then next slide Lewis thank you and then in summary chair officers consider that this development is a pos positive addition which would regenerate a key allocated site within the city center and finish the final piece of the
Jigsaw of this wider site which was originally consented in 2007 The Proposal will also um enhance landscaping around the site and deliver all section 106 obligation and as such a recommendation of approval is proposed thank you chair thank you Andrew um there are no objetives uh present to speak against
But we do have Paul Holland here the applicant and I can again bring him forward should should you wish me to do so in the meantime any questions to officers councilor cbell couple of questions the first one’s relatively easy it talks about 25,000 for biodiversity net gain spent in the area what and
Where the second one is is slightly more complex I I recall when we we had the the preap on this one and we went out to look and again when we were out today the there’s quite a significant amount of work happening to the frontage on to whiteall Road itself let’s
Discount the building and it particular there’s the layby for the bus there’s the two-way cycle route and there’s a foot path now at the time I did ask a question in relation to where the foot path went and looking again at the plan um in effect the foot path goes behind
Um can you get the the picture of the picture of the building up so you have a slide number for that sorry on the ball the the building the view the view across White Hall Road do you want the view or the layout sh no The View back back one that one that’ll
Do initially we did talk about the uh effectively the colonade because that’s a way of moving the building out but the the meshed screens and the foot path appears to go behind the meshed screens well it does on this plan anyway and I just wonder if you can give me some Assurance about
Safety because if that’s used in the evening or when it’s dark or difficult that’s a potential dark area that people would have to walk through to get effectively under the Railway Bridge on white all Road and initially I was going to ask about the the screens themselves because
It it strikes me that there’s an opportunity there for some sort of artwork as part of the screen but again looking at this plan I have some concerns about in effect what quite a long stretch of foot path behind that screen which is not necessarily overlooked by anybody
Else yeah um so the the path within the colonade will be in addition to the adopted footway which in this image and the Draft plans for the cion is to um um come in front of the cycle track at that point so there is a pedestrian route um
With the bus stop there which is outside of the colonade but also the screens I understand are about 50% perity so there will be some element of being able to see through them and I also would assume that that Colony will be lit anyway I don’t know if that helps to reassure
You uh well to some extent but um the the plan isn’t doesn’t make that clear I’ll take that as your your your view so that the the blank space between the bus layby and uh the cycle way is technically footway right okay Lewis could we just pull up the
Layout plan with the Landscaping on because I think that shows it the best it’s quite faded out on this but want me to p Al cbell have you finished I I’ll take another question you can always come back any any other questions to officers Council Brooks yeah like councilor Campbell I’m
Not convinced by this foot path being very safe with enough natural surveillance um I’m also a bit confused as to what’s going on with with like where the building actually ends like the the illustrations aren’t really helping with that um so can can you bring that back up again is that
Possible so in terms of the facade of the building it will be in line with the latitude which is the development which was um built out as part of this first um the conent which is granted in 2007 and then there’s the area of colonades which will
Be open at ground and first floor um and then the buildings well the yeah the main facade is in line with the latitude red which was pointed out on site was it this morning just going to point it out sorry just come back in right so so right what I’ve got
Is there’s a very confusing like dog leg sort of route down the side right um this like this bit here going from top to bottom of the side but on the very left hand side so like if anyone’s walking that way how safe are they going to be sorry which direction right
So on the left hand side of the plan right with with the the bridge where the bridge is there’s a path that is like a a weird dog leg sort of shape right and that goes up to whiteall yeah yeah yeah so if someone were to walk down that path at nighttime
How safe are they going to be as part of the application there’ll be um a condition for external lighting and CCTV measures there’s also an an element of natural surveillance that’ll be provided over that area um but it is envisaged that it would be well lit and
Um a well used area in terms of what you’ve got currently CU currently there’s the path over the site and in terms of natural surveillance and activity it’s likely there’s going to be more activity when this development is consented to how you would feel currently walking on that path at
Night but right that’s screened off so no from the building it’ll be a Clear Vision it’s only screen these the the screens are only on the Frontage against whiteall Road within the colonades so there’ll still be a view so wa right where’s the natural surveillance coming into it then because
If if the majority of the building is on top of it and then there’s a screening underneath I don’t understand where the natural surveillance comes into it Brooks we could thought we could bring forward the agent to answer that question if you wish could could I ask um Paul Holland
Or one of his team members to come along might save a bit of time thank you uh I take it you understood the question do you need a repeating yeah yeah the question is about the natural surveillance I think so in terms of security of that Garden area I think
The first point is is that members of the public walking along White Hall Road don’t need to go behind the screen first of all you only need to go behind the screen if you want to access the Garden area the parking area or you’re using as
A cut through to White Hole um so for the majority of people walking back and forward under the bridge they wouldn’t go behind there if you are behind the screen we have suppose quite a few measures of of safety the first is obviously the garden
Will be well lit second is is that the screen is 50% Horus so you can see through it all times the third is we have CCTV All Around The Garden area and the fourth is the building has 24hour security it’s 24hour man so it’s always under surveillance and I suppose the last
Point is is that above the podium itself so from the second floor up where we have 10 floors of office space the they look on to the Garden as well so all right thank you does that mean then that the offices are going to be in use at say 10 11 12:00 at
Night it depends on the tenants we bring in but we find generally that there’s a mix of uses for times in our office buildings and if we bring in lawyers for example it’s quite common that you see them working till you know 10: after 10: at night but depends entirely on the
Tenant so there’s no guarantee on but the building is 24hour has 24-hour security so there’s a man presence in the building with security at all hours of the day okay I I’m I’m feeling really uncomfortable about the screening it may just be that the um the uh illustration isn’t showing how visible
It is it does it does feel very much like it’s going to be blocking the view from the road leis could you just pull up the visual um the bird’s eye view of that western side yeah that one just specifically the path re assure Council Brooks okay any more questions Council
Campbell I’m still trying to understand understand this so effectively that last Bird’s ey view showed us makes it more more concerning than the the previous one so if I look at my plan here in front of me I understand what you’re now saying to me about the foot path that goes behind
The screen right uh okay uh and you’re saying actually you don’t need to use that if you don’t want to you can walk along White Road uh towards the end um and then you can use the the foot path that goes up to up to White
Hall but if I am I I’m looking at my plan uh and it’s got uh what I thought was the end of the the screening next to it is the electricity substation right we keep nodding next to it thetion and next to that there’s a white square what’s the white
Square and the the dark line that’s next to it because if it it’s that I don’t don’t what’s it what’s it function I think what you’re talking about counselor is the end of the screen the black the The White Square so what you’re seeing there is you come under
The bridge you see a small square and then the bigger rectangle is that correct is that what we’re referencing so in fact what you’re saying to me is the screen or what you appear to be saying to me is the screen stops at the last white rectangle yeah that’s
Correct so where’s the line aside we we think the screen is there to hide the sub station and it’ll also be needed for wind mitigation and it’s needed for wind okay but it it it emphasizes councelor Brook’s comment where’s the line of sight from W Field Road White sorry White Hall Road there
Isn’t one the only way you’re going to see on that up that path is to go around the back of the the center now I think we all understand there needs to be a substation we all understand there needs to be screening but I get I’m getting worried about that
Because one of the plus points if you remember when we walked through White Hall and we said how good this is going to be part of the whole deal is that there will be a significant amount of nighttime activity which will encourage people to walk in
Now you know further west it’s just the railway line so right leis can you just pull up the um win mitigation plan because I think that shows all mitigation proposed yes so it in it is wind mitigation D okay I understand the point members have raised so those screens are in blue
And it clearly shows that it goes across the sub station and it’s needed for wind mitigation according to this plan so there is a function for that it’s not just a artist yeah artist impression I understand the the point that’s being raised and what is a line of sight now
As Paul has said those screens will be 50% porous and and we’ve got 50% por screens near the vter building just at the top of uh Portland cresant and you can see through those I think the only other way to to as well as being able to
See through those the only other way to do that is to make sure on the on on the sight side of those screens it’s absolutely well lit and it the CCTV is there and the and the surveillance is there and we can’t get away from the
Fact that it’s it’s next to a a high line Railway Viaduct um but that’s a that’s and but at the same time we can’t we can’t avoid the wind mitigation requirements so I I think it’s a case of making it as well lit as possible so that there’s no hiding places no Dark
Shadowy Places do you want to come in do please you might be able to help um I just wondered whether it was the red line boundary that may make it feel like there’s a wall that extends out so you see where it Kinks out that’s not actually a wall that’s just the
Ownership so actually the wall of the yeah and and and sorry if I can just reiterate the point because I think this plan provides a lot more clarity the dark gray area is is a block of flats that members saw on site they’re nearly complete they’ll be complete in April
They have direct line of sight those windows residential windows have direct line of sight over this area so again that’s an extra layer of natural surveillance as well as the on-site measures uh you know this building will be 24hour security uh managed and monitored there will be a line of sight
From from res uh overlooking the space okay can can we move on for more more question Kate Council D please uh yes can I ask a question of yourselves as well um you’ve mentioned that there are going to be green Walls which I think is an absolutely fabulous um
Idea however I see far too many failed green Walls that look absolutely super for the first couple of years and then they get Browner and then they get bare patches so just wondered what kind of maintenance plan you have in mind to stop that happening and keep it as good
As it it is the first day you put it up yeah it’s good question that all the landscaping around the building will be subject to a maintenance regime that’s implemented by the building so the building will be will have a maintenance program for all Landscaping that includes the greenen walls we’re also
Looking at using rainwater to feed the green Walls so that we’re harvesting that from the roof feeding the ball so that it’s it’s always um watered as it should be but the entire maintenance um proposal around the building will be monitored and maintained by a landscaping contractor who will have a a
Constant contract to to look after all of that Stevenson please can I just ask what happens to the green wall when it reaches the end of its lifespan obviously if it’s absorbing carbon when you take it off what you doing with it I’m not an expert in green Walls but
As part of the maintenance regime if and when it reaches that point it would be replaced that’s suppose is how that works oh you asking how the the green waste would be dealt with I think just in the way that green waste is dealt with all absorbs carbon and then is is recycled
So but the broader point is perhaps come back for next time for offices in terms of our uh uh biodivers and green credentials we have to consider now in planning that what’s the end point of that if it’s if it’s burnt then obviously the carbon is released if it’s
Put back into the ground and that’s possibly a bit better but you don’t want to spend all this time us discussing green Walls which we think are great to find out that in a few years time they’re going to be pulled off and burnt so I think we
Need to track that as a as a point for future can you sorry ah thank you I thought it was me chair um my question is to the highway and Lisa and this morning from site visit on the whiteall road uh there’s going to be some work going to be taking
Place we’re going to be installing this routes in front of the development and then where the subway uh Subway sub station is uh near the bridge uh and it gets narrow do you think is that the what’s the length and the wide of that uh Road
And D reckon we will be able to have a foot path a cycle way and two-way traffic moving under the bridge um I have got a draft plan that I can sort of pass along for members to see and it is proposed that there’s going to be a 3 meter by directional
Cycle track the length of White Hall Road from the the crossing at um whiteall Riverside which where the the existing facilities which are uni Direction on each side of the road um finish at the moment and then it will continue um Southwest as a by Direction
On the Northern side and the works in front of this building will be implemented by the development to you know to to join that up um So the plan I’ve got is draft but it does show a 3 meter un need bir directional um track with footway and carriageway so I can
Pass that along okay Council K any further questions can we move on to comments then please okay uh thank you for coming forward Paul and your team member uh comments I’m sure you’ll uh we probably won’t get a chance to answer comments but you can take them on board from what members
Said Thank You comments no comments if there’s no comments can I ask Peter please comment I come in on it I I mean I don’t know whether we got a very good answer in terms of what we can see through that screen I appreciate there’s wind mitigation we haven’t mentioned much
About the majority of the proposal and I think that’s because we’re all reasonably happy with the majority of the proposal it’s very good in terms of its Energy Efficiency it’s very good in terms of the the um design they’ve laid out in the majority I think we probably
All do have concerns around that path behind that screen the only thing probably that will satisfy us is seeing what that screen looks like really I understand it might be 50% porous but I think I think until I’m stood one side of that looking through I probably won’t
Have a view either way what I think um I’d be happy to do is to defer and delegate that for you to look at those materials and see whether you can have a better view of it than than we have but in terms of the majority of the
Development I’m perfectly happy and I think it it goes a long way to to providing a good office building in a good location and a quality office building that that goes on it could I suggest that alongside that uh um delegation we ask the chair to have a look through at the material
That’s semi porous and uh I’m sure we can trust him to make a a sensible decision based on his view of how transparent it is and then we can move on um I don’t know whether the other thing is we’ve we’ve just looked at the
Plan of the cycle track um which is a bit small actually to interpret I do have have a few doubts about how that’s actually going to work on a narrow but very busy road so perhaps if if you could have oversight of that as well chair
Sorry I should see the cycle track which is the length of whiteall road is an active travel fund um approved project which has got um already got sign off from waa and it’s met active travel um England sort of criteria so um it has it’s separately funded so so I just want
To to so I don’t think we can say that you know we can I can find more details to the chair but it’s a separate you know beyond the the the um scope of this planning application there used to be some uh when we had an embedded police officer
We’ check for these things through secure by Design do we have such a procedure nowadays and has this this if it has been has this application been through that um because obviously the you know as I say I would normal used to be an embedded police officer
Used to give us an analysis is that still done by somebody else now or not yeah as part of the application we’ve consulted with West yorshire Police um and they recommended the condition which is to do with um I’m just trying to find it condition 38
Which is for a sec plan um for details of Access Control CCT surveillance um lighting around the building and building where I’m coming from is the Mayor West yire mayor has prioritized the safety of women and I would have expected that the police officers when they are assessing these things use that
As one of their first criteria they would check for things against it’s try and provide I know I won’t satisfy K Brooks totally on it but at least if we know that you know the mayor’s views have been been fed in and the police have reacted accordingly it gives us a degree of
Reassurance I’m slightly surprised at Barry being reassured by the mayor but there we are never mind never mind yeah I think I I mean I’m 0 agree with Peter in that this is always going to be this is always going to have been a an office site okay it’s probably suffering
A little bit because it’s the last one on the Block and so it’s picking up part of the issues that effectively were created by the rest of the development particularly the wind in my opinion but I think it really brought it home to me today when we actually walked through White
Hall and I remember the artist’s impression about what that was going to look like and at the time you know you know we always think about artist’s impression we always take with a pinch of salt but actually I could see that being a a place where there were cafes
There are bars etc etc there’d be life for all those people who are living over and above and the the access in effect from this side of the city is up this path so anybody who uh lives or will might live on the other side of whiteall road
Uh is going to need to use this path to get up there and I have to say I don’t feel that the path is that safe I’m not convinced it’s safe now I know it’s colored green but most of this space adjacent to its car park and I’m assuming it’s it’s at this
Peculiar diagonal angle because there’s a white square there which presumably can’t be developed but I I really am having difficulties it’s must be the day today with this one because I can’t I cannot see this as a safe route it’s got the railway at one side
It’s got a car park which might be overlooked by some of the offices or some of the residential development okay it’ll have lights but there’s nothing on whiteall road which will allow you to see through and we’re the best room in the world um I’m sure Jim can look
Through a screen with the best of us but I get the feeling that if you were on the top of the bus going along White allall Road uh you wouldn’t be able to see very well through the screen and so though I’m quite happy for the development and I’m quite happy for most
Of the rest rest of it because we knocked it about quite a lot when it was here for that uh for the preapp I still think we ought to say perhaps we should look at that foot path again because I’m not sure how safe it is and
I need to be convinced it’s safe to agree it any F comments is any member prepared to move the recommendation or do you want to sum up first there there is a few issues okay I I think most members are are supportive with the clearly the principle the overall design of the
Building the sustainability credentials um there’s been some discussion about the bidirectional foot path and the the route for the public uh on the adopted footpath and hopefully we clarified that that’s a separate scheme by uh funded by wer by active travel England and that’ll be on the adopted
Highway the main concern seems to be around the the footpath on the private land within the site behind the screen um and how how um safe that area will be in terms of natural surveillance and and and visibility of of users um there’s been a suggestion that that’s left to
Offices to provide the extra information to be agreed with the chair uh there’s also been a suggestion that actually that’s still an issue that isn’t uh uh resolved satisfactory to to to leave it to delegated uh Authority um I I think it’s for members to make a decision I
I the the screens will be 50% po us uh uh there are examples not too far away from this site and we can we can show those we have something on the screen which members can have a look at but it doesn’t it it wasn’t designed to actually show the visibility through it
Just designed to indicate how screens could be sculptural and artistic in their visual impact but you will be able to see through these screens uh the lighting CCTV Etc will be closely looked at and the details will be controlled and and the west yorshire police have looked at this and in effect are
Supportive subject to looking at those detailed issues uh so really that’s that’s a summary of the discussions is for members to decide uh whether the officer’s recommendation is supported or not subject to us looking at that detailed issue and it is a detailed issue I suggest of how we can ensure
That that footpath Arrangement not withstanding that we have to live with the wind mitigation and the Railway Viaduct is there um how that area can be treated so it’s as uh safe and as well lit as possible thank you um did you want to come in uh Kaye I
Saw your hand up earlier so before we go to the vote yeah thanks um yeah I I think it really needs to come back because it’s not just me that’s bothered by it um just me is it just me no okay sorry you’re second a okay
Um all those in favor I guess uh of deferral please show well that looks fairly conclusive but does again just for the records abstentions I’ll put the rece down as abstentions thank you so it will be deferred for further information on the issues raised by members okay
Um I I was just going to suggest M and then you can come in if you like uh I was just going to suggest that we might want a comfort break at this time for 10 minutes is that okay is we can come back and then I’m sure I’ll hear what you say
Colin have speakers for this one uh but I’ll tell you when we get there uh so can I invite Matt to introduce this please I I was simply going to say that considering we deferred the other item I think it would be helpful to members uh
And to doit to for him to articulate what he thinks he’s going to have a discussion with the developer about and then see whether we necessarily agree with that to invite tell you do that but I thought you’d actually did that when you summed up but go ahead
I’m happy to do it again um the the item was deferred for officers to consider reconsider the opportunities for natural surveillance improving natural surveillance lighting appropriate planting and other matters to address the potential safety concerns that been raised by members about the design of the foot paath to the western side of the
Building okay uh I think we would like to see some uh the permability of those screens to see what you actually can see we had no we had nowh CC CD CDI has shown that so I think we’d like to see that okay that’s straight forward coun books and then
I’ll bring you koun gr um councelor Anderson also mentioned about um the police having sight of it like a a specialist within the police having sight of it which I agree with d on that was we have already consulted with the police architectural uh the A on officer but
With any redesign we’ll do that again before we bring it back okay sorry if I’ve missed this D I was listening to you um did it say subject to the chair’s either approval or agreement no oh okay be deciding come back oh it’s coming back C it
Is sorry the other thing I was just going to say was um as well as looking at permeability um of the screen also to consider if there was an alternative I mean could the screen be broken up into section so actually you get some visibility through for example is there
An alternative to having one screen or yeah or remove what’s the necessity of it yeah the whole thing okay can be t on board um it’s a bit more complicated than that in that the screens are there for a purpose to deal with wind mitigation to if you
Start redesigning the screens you have to have them remodeled there’s a long waiting time for the wind tunnels and for modeling work so that might become complicated uh but I I take the point about what can we do to improve the intervisibility between the adopted areas and the foot paath within the
Site moving on then can we uh address uh page 75 agenda item nine and invite Matt to introduce this to us please thanks Matt thank you chair and just for the benefit of Ls I’m just going to say next slide each time it should be accompanied
By a please but for you know for efficiency um so next slide so to start off with a little bit of the surrounding context for this development it’s a 10 story Co Living Residential development that’s been proposed um at the corner of Brick Street and Brussels Street this is the
View of the application site from the environment around leads Minster high court and the conservation area and I’ve just marked the site with an arrow a bit it’s not very clear but it’s a Black Arrow there as you look sort of looking eastwards through the conservation area
And the to the left of the picture you can see the newly constructed Phoenix House just appearing over the skyline in the center of the pitch you can see the IIs hotel is part of the Gateway complex of buildings and then the conservation area boundary expires at jke street so
In this view this is in effect the view through the conservation area towards the expiring demise of the conservation area just where the second white van is on the right there next slide uh this view is probably more familiar to anyone who’s used to coming into the city from the south on foot
Hulford courts a former hostile building four stories in height it’s from the roadway by a high-sided perimeter wall um s of comment it with its former use and then a Verge with some semi-mature trees and this site was developed out for this purpose in the uh early 90s
Next slide please Lois uh this is Brick Street um the former um po Funeral Care site is um is to the right hand side of the pitch there HF C on the left and in the Horizon point of the pitcher in the center is a a Vu Arch which provides an
Important pedestrian route through towards Monro house Quarry Hill the playhouse Northern ballet and the new soor development next slide please this is the Eastern elevation of HFI Court seen from the southern corner of Brick Street uh at this point I’m just going to ask members to note the
Trees at the right hand side of the picture I’ll be returning to those shortly next slide uh this is the view from the northeastern corner of the site this is more or less where members who were on the visit this morning was stood um The View you can see there is of the
Aforementioned trees and to the right is Brussel Street which provides a um pedestrian linkage down to the cycle super highway it’s a no through route for vehicles um so it’s a pedestrian route only next slide and then again Brussel Street and as you can see here
The building as as is today is currently buffered by landscaping and a rail boundary but as was the case on Brick Street the top of fenestration on the building is quite limited there’s no active Frontage at either Brick Street or Brussels Street next slide please uh this is a view uh looking East
Along Brussel street from The Pedestrian environment of Duke Street and the cycle way that I just mentioned um The Arches on the left are mostly vacant and they’re administered by Network rail but there are some light industrial uses and I believe there’s a shisha Cafe in uh in
One of the Arches as well there next slide so this is the proposed site plan and the surrounding context the red line of the site is in effect the current landscape strip and railing to the North and the perimeter boundary Walling which envelops the site along its Southwestern
And Southern Edge that in effect separates out the semi-mature trees which buffer the site from the big Highway environment which runs along du street that you can see sort to the left hand side of the picture and Marsh Lane which runs sort of diagonal to the right next slide
Please uh this is the proposed ground floor in the surrounding public realm so recalling that lack of active Frontage the design ethos here is to basically activate as much of Brick Street and Brussel Street as is possible and to turn the back of house function areas that are going to be required actually
Into the site itself so the aim here is that the public get the benefit of the visual activity and we actually create a place here rather than a street the one thing I say about Brick Street is there’s a lot of bricks but there’s not much street at the
Moment so uh that the aim there it’s there’s no real sense of place alone Brick Street it’s quite an anonymous route yet with the sort of emerging residential and cultural environment at Quarry Hill the Street’s about to become the M the main north south pedestrian link route so this needed addressing in
The proposed design so the applicant worked with us on this um so the Eastern elevation all the supporting communal functions will look out over Brick Street and the key here is the m retention of those two mature trees at the top corner of the of the site there
Um to give the the building entrance which will which will be to the sped Corner that you see that looks out at the junction of Brussel Street and Brick Street to help give that a proper setting with and retaining the high imun value of those two trees next slide please
Um just one thing to mention as well sorry can we go back one leis apologies um you’ll notice just to the right hand side there there are some Street trees being proposed there is a an increase in the width of the footway along there just to try and give a little bit better
Pedestrian environment little bit of breathing space to the trees uh we’ll be very honest there that there isn’t much space to play with in terms of ground substructure so these won’t be big heavy specimen trees there will be more or less ornamental but it is an opportunity
To get some tree cover around the site uh to go along with you know good design principles and the npf’s aspiration for getting Street trees along new developments and to actually give Brick Street a little bit of character so that’s the aim of the applicants maneuver there next slide
Please so this is ground floor plan to Brick Street there’ll be a gym space Works Space communal lounge space and the entrance at the corner um we need to give some consideration to the internal layout of the gym in terms of privacy uh because it is a it is a you know a
Street facing function but we think with that can be done by the orientation of the equipment inside rather than using anything to deaden the frontage frosting windows and such like and to keep that visual permeability um now Brussel Street as you can see which is the the the the top
Elevation there at the top of the picture there is some less active Frontage along that side um we acknowledge that um that’s Bor a necessity really in that there has to be some space given over for bin and cycle storage we’ve got a few ideas about how
That could be animated if members are surm minded to to approve this um but ultimately we we’re trying to make the corner and Brick Street that main focal point of the development and to really animate that route up through towards the archway and heading northwards um next slide
Please so we this is the image we’ve taken the trees out of this just so that you get a better impression of what the elevations look like um this is hus New Brick Street elevation and how that had interface with that pedestrian route to provide a really strong visible K some
Land some some Landscaping along there um and actually make this look a little bit more of an active Street next slide please and this is just a few precedent images we’re working with the applicant through for the Brussels some of the Brussels Street elevation where out of necessity we can’t have Windows or
Glazing know we don’t think that that would work in terms of security for the cycle store uh we’ve seen measures like this and Maneuvers like this Elsewhere on buildings in the city it seems to work quite well uh we’d be using conditions to control that perhaps with um
The opportunity to maybe use a a local Heritage reference point in the design similar to how it’s been done at Victoria gate uh next slide please uh this is an impression of some of the ground floor communal spaces um now we’re all familiar with these they come forward quite a lot with year
Common of garden build to rent developments um and obviously that’s quite common with Co living as well in fact it’s it’s ever more important in terms of the so communal nature of the the the residential product that’s been proposed next slide this is an artist impression of the ground floor workspace
And touchdown space and obviously Co livings a especially popular form of tenure for the tech sector and office workers who are on shorter term contracts the the the sort shorter term lease nature of of the products means that you do get for example contract workers for some of the technology
Companies using this kind of um this kind of environment to live in and obviously that this provides an opportunity for people to meet and mingle not only within uh the building themselves but actually having people from externally to company residents to come in and have places to to sort of
Touch down and work and collaborate uh next slide please uh this is uh an example of sort of some of the immunity provision for residents that’s the the cinema room um not sure about the decor but um you know that it’s it tastes subjective isn’t it um next slide
Please and then this is a typical floor plan moving up the building um each individual Studio would contain most of the provisions you would expect for a self-contained studio flat in this case it’s quite a wide spectrum of of co-living products depending on operator circumstances whether it’s p purpose
Built um environment or not whether it’s a converted building but the approach here is to provide units that that either meet or exceed the national minimum space standards and then complement those with communal spaces per floor so the yellow area that you can see there is a a shared lounge or
Kitchen there are some some of the sped cor Corner units there are slightly larger at 41 square meters in in acknowledging that they’re a bit more of an awkward shape so to make sure that that sort in terms of the qualitative quality of of that space that that’s
Compensated for um so this is floors um 2 to um 2 to7 will operate in this would operate in this format uh next slide please and this is just to give you an idea of the the internal space of a studio concentrating the sort of more private spaces to the interior of the
Building spaces that would generally be more reliant on electric lighting and then concentrating um as is commonly the approach that we that we aim for areas where your amenity space within there your circulation space your living space in inverted commas gets more of the natural light uh towards the windows and
The external facades of the building next slide please just an idea of the bedroom space and um the basic cooking facilities that would be provided in in each unit um next slide please and then this is an example of the communal kitchen by floor at floors 2 to 7 uh so
It’s a it it’ll it’ll contain you know space to mingle cooking facilities this isn’t a bookable space this is available for for each resident at each floor so you’re looking at approximately 14 units to share one of these spaces at about 70 square meters um next slide please that’s just
Another view um of the same sort of space uh next slide and then this is the top two floors a recessive glass element for townscape reasons which I’ll come on to um there are a few units there I think it’s four in total that are a
Little bit of a an awkward shape and sit out although they hit 37 square meters they sit slightly outside of having a usable space of 37 square meters so we acknowledge that um it’s four units in a scheme of approximately 100 so it’s it’s roughly four or 5% of the overall um
What I would say is that by design of the building those units that are most greatly affected of that would benefit from the more panoramic views so where you losing some amenity terms in one respect there’d be there’d be a little bit coming back in in another and
Obviously uh you know your renter’s choice would come into that sort of process but ultimately we think in the round um complemented by the additional space that that these units have got in terms of communal areas we think we think that’s acceptable in in its minority state next slide please um just
An example the the proposals meet um policy h10 in the core strategy although we don’t have a specific policy on Co living uh the adopted guidance note from development plans panel suggests that we should be following our housing policies in that regard so we’ve we’ve attained
Um a layout and a setup that meets h10 in the same way as a standard residential product would um next slide and then I’m going to whist through these because these are the elevations but are probably better better Illustrated in the SE that follow so this is the Northeast elevation next
Slide uh the Northwest elevation Southwest elevation which is basically where the tree belt is around um Duke Street um as you look across toward from the Minster across the highway Network next slide please and then that’s the southeast elevation which is effectively Brick Street uh next slide uh this gives you some indication
Of how the setback at roof level would work so there’ be a a modest setback just to indent the top two tiers of the two levels of the building um we don’t want these buildings looking flat uh they the this building in itself has got quite an angled form given that it
Respects the shape response to the shape and character of the site but we’ be looking for at least a brick setback on those on those windows there and then where there are larger window openings to the corners we’d be wanting a a great to reveal the the applicant signed up to
That we’d be controlling that in detail through the conditions but that expectation would be there early doors um we think this building needs a great deal of threedimensional three dimensionality to achieve the quality that we’re looking for uh next slide please uh this is a view from the public
Realm and Cycle Way um you can see Phoenix House in it’s much taller form to the right hand side the railway vidu sits to the left um next slide please this is it from Brussel street again I’ve asked for the trees just to be taken out just so that the elevation not
Feted and you get the idea of of that view back down towards the Minster and the the the Minster Gardens that sit opposite next slide okay so what I’ve tried to do here is I appreciate that that only the birds would appreciate this this sort of townscape analysis but
The red area is the area that that’s more or less designated within our tall building strategy as being an area where we’ll look at the possibility of having taller buildings subject to other detailed planning considerations the green area is a really calm area with that respects the the setting of of of
Of the Minster in fact I would say it is the setting of The Minster in terms of it more or less follows the line and the demise of the conservation area things are of a much lower rise there it’s it’s very calm we’re talking about the blue area
And we’re talking about the principles of how to develop this this blue area and we consider that this is a it’s almost a transitional area it’s it’s not a place that’s suitable for a tall building hence looking to cap the height of this building where you know we would
Or as you can see with the size and scale of Phoenix House that sits opposite um we think that that having a building of that sort of scale within this Blue Area would would would come we would be in an argument about the setting of The Minster there we think whereas we don’t
Consider that to be the case with a 10 story building in the format that were proposed this is also about what our T buildings SPD talks about in terms of ensuring that Quarry Hill as a Gateway location remains legible um in longer views so I’m going to show you a few
Views in a moment about how this building relates in its height and it’s massing um but essentially we consider that white line there almost to be a line of restraint behind that to the to the East and the southeast that’s where you taller your taller character is um
And then your taller character then comes back and prevails at Quarry Hill where the sort of greeny beige line is and then we step down in overall height to respect the existing sort of grain and character of buildings and height of buildings around Monroe house which has an approved extension the northern
Ballet um which then grades back up again towards Quarry Hill but also with respect to that green area that you see there and making sure that that remains open and calm and not over doomin by buildings um there’s a great deal of Highway infrastructure that sits between
Um the Minster Gardens um and the development site so we think there are town Cape um structures in effect that help us sort of work out where things should go in terms of height and massing um and we we think the this helps us helps us in terms of setting and
Ensuring that we’re not we’re not handly interrupting or even affecting the setting of The Minster in this location next slide please now this is another reason this is this is to illustrate the importance of we were saying about um that Gateway location of Quarry Hill um whether you like we’re not just talking
About Quarry house here I will I will emphasize that we’re talking about Quarry Hill as an entity um this is from the Apex of um highest the highest point on uh cramp Point bridge so after this you you’re starting to descend downwards towards um the application site but here you can see
That Quarry Hill and everything that pops out from behind it retained its you can there is visual permeability you can still see Quarry house you can see the buildings that are emerging behind there there’s another development to go in at St Cecilia Street the affordable housing development that going there and that
Recessive that recessive element of the top two floors there is is a deliberate architectural device to try and keep the brick form of that building as low as possible um still achieving that critical mass to make to make this this site viable for development but it’s ultimately it’s not a tall building that
That interrupts that view so that’s why we’re developing at the sort of or the developer is looking to develop at the the floor plate and the heights that are being proposed and that’s why the building is in part designed for this reason next slide please uh this is just
To reflect that I was talking about the townscape and the to reflect how the height of the building relates to those that are sort of close to um bordering the railway viaducts uh you can see how that relates to the height of the northern ballet uh the the building
That’s in the center of there as well and then we would expect obviously Heights to then grade up at Quarry Hill by virtue of topography as well as approved building Heights there uh next slide please uh this is the view back into town um so you’ve got Northern
Ballet the side the co-op building there obviously um is is is defunct we would expect that at some point in the future that will come forward for development as well so very much what we what we do here will will will have a have a wider
Impact in terms of you know the market that we set down in terms of townscape this why we think it’s very important that we’ve we’ve we’ve dealt with the building in this way in townscape terms uh next slide please um this is it again so you can see that step down in height
From Phoenix House and the buildings that are opposite next slide um this is the view backup so you can see again we’re stepping down from the Ibis um towards the railway viu and then and then back up again uh you can see blocks andf and then the United students
Building um just to the left of of this building uh next slide please um this is just to give you an idea of of the three elevation the three sort of Brick Street Brussel Street elevations how they would work together in terms of the sort of regular postmodern uh design regular openings
Tripartite arrangement of Base middle and top um we’ve not fed that with the trees Etc but to create a strong arrival point of the corner there next slide please and then finally this is the um the completed development and public realm Etc in context with those trees to
Try and effectively add the word Street to Brick Street um there there’s in addition to all of the matters that are on um in the the box at the head of the report there is one other matter that’s come to light which is that um all of us applicant Consultants have missed the
Fact that there needs to be a further backat survey undertaken at the site and that can only be undertaken later on in the year in May so we would not be in a position to actually issue the decision on this until that has completed to the satisfaction of Natural England and the
Nature conservation team so that’s a matter of apologies that’s missing from that box but that is a matter that we would need satisfaction on before we could approve this there is obviously if members are minded to agree there is a legal agreement process that needs to be
Gone through and completed so it should dovetail in terms of time scales but because That Matter’s missing I’m drawing it to your attention thank you chair thank you Matt um we do have uh objectors who wish to speak can I invite them forward now it’s Anna Schindler and Martin Hamilton
Good afternoon Martin and Anna uh you have four minutes to speak and I understand you might jump jump around a little bit two minutes each I leave that entirely up to you Lewis will monitor time and give you a warning when your time’s running out so when you’re ready please
Begin afternoon everyone um we don’t often come to the uh panel as a as a trust although we comment on lots of applications but I think last time was three or four years ago on first White cloth Hall actually when we supported that scheme but we have come today
Because we think feel that this particular location this particular building is is is pivotal to this area and and really sets a precedent and so we wanted to make a few remarks uh along those lines so I’m going to say a few General remarks then Anna’s going to
Home in on some specific concerns that we have so as I say it is an area in transition um it’s not an area that will always be dominated by highways um at the moment you have to cross I think 22 Lanes of traffic to go from Saxon
Gardens to the Palace Pub by which time you definitely do need a drink um that won’t always be the case um we’ve already seen City Square closed to through traffic which means there’s fewer vehicles coming through the loop um Council have done some studies on the on on the amount of Highways land
Required in that area that could well reduce um and we’ve also been doing some work at the trust uh looking at the East Side looking at how that area could be greened uh we could plant more trees how we could reveal the Beck for example so
The area will change over time uh and so we feel it’s important that any buildings that are built there are future proofed as well as working for today they actually work um in the future um and so our concern as a say is that this particular building sets a
Precedent um for what might happen in the future and it needs to be a building that we can be proud of that is welld designed uh that is orientated in the right way um that has um the right materials um and uh that doesn’t act as
A barrier between uh the areas um uh further over bofs Richmond Hill and the City Center the concern is that anything that that is built there shouldn’t be shouldn’t feel like a fortress um so that’s those are some general remarks I wanted to make about this particular
About this location and this site but Anna’s got some specific concerns that we’ll that she’ll outline about the building and the proposal in particular thanks thanks Martin um so yeah I’ll run you through some specific points um so first we feel the building should be an active and engaging Frontage um although
There’s been a slight Improvement on earlier drawings the builds building still lacks an active Frontage and we consider the building uh still has poor elevational treatment and building form um as was the office of view of early draw drawings of the scheme um the ground floor fails to contribute the
Ground Flo level sorry failed to contribute to street life and placemaking uh whilst the report says that dead Frontage is now concentrated it is concentrated on the very busy and active Duke Street we also feel the mute ground floor lacks a meaningful relationship to the ground where residents are unable to benefit from
West facing views of the Minster and from the sunshine um we feel that Landscaping is also insufficient and the architectural form is UN interesting um and we would suggest improvements could include cascading Terraces or balcony states in the city center um the second point is about the scheme’s impact on
The conservation area um the failure of the scheme to respect character and appearance of the area is also insufficiently addressed given its proximity to the grade one listed building of Leeds Minster and its position in the conservation area um we know that the report argues that there is sufficient distance between this
Building and the listed Le Minster however the building will have an impact and we would argue that the quality of the building needs at the very least to be uh higher to compensate for this impact and the final point to mention is sort of as indicated earlier by Martin
Um the the building risks acting as a block on wider Redevelopment um we surely would not have built a Gateway scheme as it is today for example um which is a scheme that looks in on itself so all new buildings in this you know should aspire
To be outward facing um so just to summarize this is a key Gateway site which deserves an Exemplar building that acknowledges that this is an area which is likely to change significantly over the next few years and this building should really Embrace those changes and
So we asked the panel uh to support our view at least at the very least that further work is needed to improve this building thank you very much thank you Anna thank you Martin any questions from Members Peter please thank you it’s not not really question so to
Speak but it I’d like to word it as one because when I saw the designs in this I had some concerns about it and in a way I wasn’t sure whether I liked it or I didn’t it looks like a big old solid brick thing now were it a Heritage
Building that had been there for a hundred years that we were then saving exactly as is I think I’d quite like it you know we we’d think about um the TCH site or others like that where you’d have a big building that would look similar to this but it’d have that that
Historical significance but with this I was unsure about whether it’s prison-like and looks like a big solid wall of something or whether it is good design I wonder whether you could expand on what you felt about it being a blockage to help me understand that I think
The I might want to chip in here but I think the the key view from the Minster looking looking to the building uh looking to to Duke Street um where you have you know a wall on ground floor it’s effectively a wall an impenetrable wall um now if more activity was int
Introduced right around the building then perhaps you could get away with a single block that does look a bit like you know like a like a like a fortress like a prison I suppose to use your word you know if there was more activity right around the building you could get
Away with that I think the fact that there is that that’s lacking means that you probably need to make the building more interesting and you need to break it up a little bit so we mentioned you know having Terraces or having balconies or Ju Just making the building visually
More interesting might sort of compensate for the lack of activity at ground forall level so I think you know one or the other possibly you can get away with I’m not sure you can get get away with both um and it is kind of an
Island site you know it is it is in effect like a little island so again it’s a it’s it’s like a like a castle on the top of a of an island isn’t it and and you don’t really want to feel to have that sort of sense as you’re
Walking through the area um you know this is an area that um as I say will will undoubtedly change in the next few years um the the the rationalization of the of the roads alone is is likely to happen and so you don’t really want this
Building to be sticking out as some sort of relic of the past that actually didn’t address those changes and didn’t at least think about how it needed to respond to those sorts of changes so yeah I think I think you’ve got a point you Martin any further questions counc tables
Please just picking up on your point about balconies I know that you said that you’ve made the point that obviously there’s going to be changes in that area coming forward um but you also said that currently you mentioned I think it’s 27 um Lanes of traffic that you’ve got
To cross over at at some point near there and I’m just thinking I’m don’t think I’d want to live in a I don’t think I’d want balconies in that kind of area where there’s a lot of both noise and air pollution at the moment that I don’t know what you think about
That I mean I mean I think I think you know we if you look at um if you look at the sorts of buildings that are being built across the city some have balconies and some don’t um and I think the the argument is often around noise
And pollution you know you don’t the balconies because it’ll be noisy um it doesn’t necessarily have to be full balconies you know you could have Juliet balconies but it’s as much about providing texture and and variety as actually something that people necessarily sit out on but I do think on
The jke street elevation you know in the evening when when it’s quieter maybe you know as the sun’s setting it’s actually quite a pleasant environment there you you’re looking at the Minster it’s not that busy um and and as I say um certainly the traffic along the loop
Which is what you’d be looking at that there’s no reason to drive along that that particular piece of um Road anymore because it’s it’s effectively access only you can’t get through the city Square so that particular bit has actually quietened down a lot so so I think I think some form of Interest
Whether it’s balconies Juliet balconies um terracing just just to give you that sense of of variety would would be positive um and as I say you can’t clearly make decisions based on what might happen in the future you have to make a decision on what’s there now but
Don’t I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think about you know what the future might hold um and whether a building um is flexible enough to to accommodate that uh so I think that’s that’s also a reasonable thing to think about I would have thought just one point to add as well is
Like just even just thinking about um what what there is now having that residents who are going to be living in that space don’t have any access to you know Green Space or or outdoor space in that area because it’s so kind of fragmented as things currently are and
The the vision that of for East Side that kind of the trust is kind of advocating for is is hoping for some transformation in that sense but while while we wait for that to happen uh people still have to get some space from somewhere and I think it know it should
Be an important aspect of of City Center um schemes like this to to incorporate that um any point that they can really thank you Anna Mar uh Council gr please I think you about probably clarified my question I just wanted to know are you looking to change the
Design or simply not build the development I think um there’s already building there which isn’t very good actually it’s it’s that really does turn its back on in many ways on on the on the the surrounding area so I think building on that site is absolutely fine I just don’t think it’s
This building or it’s not a building it’s it could be this building but it would it would be a building that was redesigned um you know quite a bit please thank you Martin uh mine’s a simple question and a bit of clarification uh I know uh myself and
Other local csil has met with yourself um not for this site but surrounding area there’s master plan you are drafting up will they affect this site with your master plan or is it out of your master plan site so yeah whole for C is within within the remit of the side Vision um
And what what we’d kind of um been doing working with um you know various groups of stakeholders and members of the community to um to reimagine this space um and and think about what you could do with that if we were to reclaim some of that Highway land
Uh he of coure um is sort of situated directly on that site and we kind of envisioned for that to be reflective of those themes so that the division is representing and that’s about um housing that um faces onto what could be this new Civic space um for people who live
In that site to use um so is it’s really important for for the principles of that vision for this this um this development to sort of reflect that yeah I mean I think that’s right the the um so so definitely a building it’s you know it’s fine for a building
To go on this site not not a problem at all with that we don’t have a problem with and in fact you know our uh ideas for this area include you know some some additional building potentially on on on the the area that is currently occupied
By all the the road space um so that that that we’re not against building not at all um but I think this building would you know if if this Vision was implemented look out on a on on Green Space on bigger on a bigger area of
Green Space um with the with the road going around around the other side um even if that doesn’t happen as I say I think there’s still it’s still important that we have a building of of high quality that uh that that has um a sense of activity all all the way around um
And and I we just don’t feel that this building is is it you any further questions or comments from Members if not then can I thank Marcel and that and I invite uh the de the developers come forward I think Andy Andrew windross dress is here so he’ll
Good afternoon Andrew and team as you know you have four minutes to speak so please begin when you’re ready thank you chair yes I’m Andrew winders planning consultant uh joined on my left by Tara jarid the applicant Beyond tariff is Nick Watson the architect and on my right is Katherine
Rose who was the operator of the co- living that we’re discussing today I’ll just briefly pick on on a few bits and then I’ll hand over to Katherine to more talk about the co- Living Concept because I think that’s something that members are interested in as well um
Don’t to go into the design too much because in the presentation that we’ve already heard and in the report that’s been soort robustly discussed and and Justified and is the benefit of two years of of work work with officers discussing that design where it’s been confirmed there is no impact on the
Heritage assets and that this is a design that is supportive um we are supportive of of the the aspirations of the Civic trust but clearly there’s no scheme there there’s no planning policy there that requires uh the removal of those highways and the changes in those highways this this engages as much as
Possible as it can with those highways it strongly enlivens onto Brick Street and then as much as possible has been touched on onto Brussels Street so I’ll I’ll hand over not to Katherine but we’re happy to sort of discuss the design comments the activity and what we’ve talked about with with Matt with
Regard to any further enlivening uh along Brussels Street thank you Andrew and thank you chair pleasure to be here this afternoon so Verve life are one of the largest operator of co-living Assets in the UK we have nearly 1,700 units under management across a number of schemes
Mainly in London as you’d expect because it’s new entrance to the market we are also Consulting on a number of other schemes across the country which total is 11 and that’s about 2 and a half thousand units at early stages as we are here today we get involved very early um
So I’ve personally fed into the design of this stage and very closely looked at the resident Journey the um the way the building is going to be enlivened and engaged the immunity offering and how we think this building is going to be activated there are challenges in terms
Of the street Frontage but where you’ve got bins and bike saws that need to be at a ground floor level you can’t have every aspect that can be um engaging in terms of that active Frontage uh the resident engagement is hugely strong in everything we do within
Our co- living schemes so from residents engagements to events to how we activate that immunity space um really brings these buildings together and that’s where we brought our expertise into the the development and design of this scheme that’s it thank you offer to any questions
Thank you that uh you did you did finish and didn’t use your four minutes thank you for that uh questions or clarifications please from the applicants members Peter I’ll ask the same kind of question again because I like to ask it of everyone and see U what all the answers
Are so it was just in terms of the design of the scheme just in terms of the Aesthetics to look at and it it’s true what I’m saying when I saw it I wasn’t sure whether I liked it or not and I just wondered if you could
Talk me through a little bit about how you came up with that design for the site how you think that fits uh into this site and and and works with the the rest of the environment around yeah sure I’ll see if Nick wants to expand any further bow touched on yes
We’ve sort of engaged with officers number of workshops with uh Sten Valley and and Matt Walker over the years uh and there’s sort of the the quality of the report um with the stone at the base level and and then the brick above and then that lighter touch uh on top which
Again has been all through that design Evolution this the site’s actually really quite constrained um you’ve got public highway to three sides um we’ve got um trees that are outside of our ownership which are between the the wall the boundary wall um and the highway and then we’ve got um two fairly mature
Trees that we’re trying to retain so actually the building for has been informed by the constraints which gives you what’s a fairly unusual shaped building it’s almost triangular in footprint um so and it’s it’s also informed by its ability to work efficiently around a single core uh with
Two stairs um so that gives us our essentially our basic shape and then the the rooms or the apartments sit around that in terms of of how the building set out it’s a it’s a very um straightforward top middle and bottom type of Arrangement we’ve got the the base which
Is obviously a natural stone which is tying into to the Minster and then you’ve got the brick work again um a great material stands a test of time generally improves with age ties into the archeries behind and the materiality of the air Railway and then you come to
The top and we’ve got two floors of of like a reflective glass which helps the building disappear into the skyline um obviously we’ve got some quite a lot of some DET part of the design we’ve got the detailed brick work spays um We’ve Got Deep window reveals um and then
We’ve got some interest on the on the junction of Brick Street where we’ve got the uh proposing either a core 10 material or or a copper cladding to add a bit of interest um uh that’s essentially where where we’ve got to but like I said it is actually initially it
Looks like the site’s quite large but actually when you take into account the red line the trees it’s actually really quite constrained thank you you sorry sorry I carry on please I beg your pardon um sorry I was just reiterating that the the first first iteration of the our proposals
It’s considerably changed and some of the offic offic at leads like to say as it is and say that’s no good and start from scratch and we have we’ve taken the cues from that and I just want to say the the obviously adjacent site Co-op and there was we were minded to take
That into consideration regardless of what’s happening there and Brick Street being a thorough Fair leading onto the uh The Arches and onto the side it was quite important hence the building was set back those trees and I know some of the images that U Matt shown that’s
Illustrative of it makes it more open at the minute it’s just blank walls and hopefully that the if Co-op comes up to uh for redevelopment that’s reflected and there is a Affair between the recent developments on the other side of the road and it’s a natural transition and
There is active Frontage I say with the um treatments on the glazing the gym and all that with lights and activity happening thank you uh councilor grman please thank you um Katherine I think it was you when we did the visit to the home that did a little presentation for
Us and in that presentation I think you had a graph which demonstrated that leads had quite a high level of Need for this kind of accommodation could you just remind us again how you identified that need and what it’s based on please yep certainly um so that information came through a various
Number of data sources including a savel’s report and a night Frank report looking at the shortage of co- living uh looking at the demands looking at the take up of buil to rent in the major key City um and looking at the University graduate retention rate so mainly it was
Between savil and night Frank and one other that escapes me so we were looking at the Big agency’s Data sources on that and that’s where my information came from I’m tempted to say where did their information come from it’s just that I I need a view or an idea about how you
Identify how many people need a home of this kind is it just the characteristics of the city so it is very location specific but it is the characterization of the city it’s looking at the University retention rate it’s looking at the employment it’s looking at the demographics it’s uh taking into account
The bill to rent take up and it’s looking at the local old old school kind of um M and Dad landlords people exiting the market uh the demand on one twos and three beds and studios in the city so it does take a huge data set so they will
Also have looked at the Census Data as well but they would have gone out to local agents and looked at what’s coming through and planning looking at house ownership looking at house purchases and just they will have taken a whole a huge amount into account when they were putting those reports
Together thank you and I’m not sure whether I’m allowed to ask this so I’ll retract it if I’m not uh how much would there be per month to rent so the average studio in the build to rent Arena at the moment is just over1 1,000 a month um we’re yet to do
The price on the lead scheme we have done some early viability um accounts and I think we probably be at over ,000 a month to rent um we’re yet to determine whether that would be including council tax or utilities uh that’s the way the C Market’s certainly
Going um but it’s it’s affordable with a little a in terms of you know what your monthly outgoings are there’s the flexibility there so it’s it’s it’s well positioned without it coming out at the top of the market I would say especially given the fact you’ve got access to all
Of these immunity spaces and the number of events we’d put on so in the region of a thousand in today’s today’s rents councilor Staples please I’m just looking at the materials that you plan to build the um do the build from um I’m looking at the glass reinforced
Plastic that sounds to me very carbon intensive could you just enlighten me on that please the materials are AR fully set and I’m sure they’ll be conditioned um it’s it’s GRC glass reinforced concrete um that it would either be that or natural stone to the base area um but that’s to be
Defined if I sorry if I can just clarify on the the rental on what we’ve we’ve done some some further work since Ms Katherine was uh looking into this with regard to the values and the comparables are currently coming out for these size of Studios at about 1880 pounds a week
So that’s just a bit down on the figure that Katherine was quoting so we more at the s 7 to800 per calendar month that’s inclusive of all bills council tax the water rates and everything else Broadband Etc St you want to come back you okay it’s just in terms of when we’re
Looking at this development that obviously we’re looking at um the carbon emissions from the whole build now and I just presume that something that we’re look I’m directing this at you actually this is some is this something that we’re looking at in terms of the materials and how carbon intensive they
Are it is and we get quite GR with it now in terms of sight wte management as well so there there’s for example it used to be called the rap toolkit for example where we actually look and see what embedded carbons leaving a site how that is then as an inevitable cost of
Development in carbon terms is recycled or moved on or put to other uses and all that gets dealt with through the conditions process you Matt uh CER di please thank you um my questions are are really focusing on Green Space and a lack of I do appreciate the difficulty of the site um
I I’m concerned about the number of trees and obviously we take any possible um uh advantage of of additional trees on any site but are are there options on this site for looking at things like green Walls in you know thinking of in terms of carbon but also in terms of
Enhancing the building um and then thinking about the people who are are going to live there um we’ heard earlier about the possibility of redesigning to to make it more kind of tery I mean have you looked at the possibility of of adding something like a roof Garden or
Additional planting to to to enhance the resident experience yeah sure to touch on the green Walls that’s suppose something that we could consider in terms of looking to in liveen that element of Brussel Street uh where the bike stores are which again a typically Rel relatively blank Frontage
Is we’ve looked at sort of mesh treatment but um in fact it was a scheme Nick and I were both working on where we did something similar on on another scheme on Regent Street of introducing a a lower level green wall at the very least clearly the upper levels is a lot
Of of glazing that we’re trying to get in as much as as possible so that’s certainly something we can consider through the the conditions and the discussions with mat that we’re already having um in terms of the imunity on the on the up level the eighth level there’s
The the balcony Terrace area around there as tariff has touched on it is quite a constrained site in terms of its current footprint but we’re certainly Keen to sort of open the site out as much as possible to engage into what may happen in the future with regard to any
Removal of Highways um and that the sort of tree introduction is really at the maximum possible but there is that additional contribution which again if some of those Works happen in the surrounding area I’m think the Minster Gardens whether there tree planting would take place there all that that
Money could go toward there so that’s what’s been sort of put together in the package but it been a relatively constrained site as well so we’re trying to do as much as we can with it thank you uh councelor Brooks please thanks chair um so in the slides
Before it showed ovens in the kitchens will there be ovens in all of the kitchen units uh in all of the units um and then externally it says external immunity area um is that going to be there all the time or will it be sort of cleared in like brought back in at
Nighttime so I can answer the point about the immunity space we um as part of our resident engagement package we would not run events late into the evening so generally we close our immunity space at 10 o’cl um or earlier depending on local sound issues or depending on where it is
In the building we don’t want any antisocial Behavior so we wouldn’t have any external event space open late into the evening absolutely not unless we had an entertainment’s license and we were running an event for the residents which would be one-offs um so so no and it would be seasonal as
Well we’d clearly not have uh the event space open if we had bad weather um for health and safety reasons in terms of ventilations of the kitchens um I’ll defer on that point I think in in that respect it was it was more I think image of a microwave
And sort of small cooking oven is that the query with that yeah sorry there were there was definitely like a oven that was like built into the units that I saw oh sorry what in terms of the individual Apartments yes yeah so there are small kitchenet cooking facilities within the individual
Apartments and does that include proper ovens right yeah you uh any more questions Council Campbell I suppose the obvious question is have you brought any sample panels of material and the answer to that presumbly is no it’s just it’s you will appreciate that that potentially this is
A sensitive location and judging by the pictures it it’s very difficult for me to get an idea of I suppose quite what the building will look like um because there is the reference to Red Brick but as we know there are are several hundred types of red brick uh and then the
Copper bars want of a better word and again as we know these come in various Shields um and I think one of the criteria that we have to take into account is um if you look out from the current building towards the Minster um if you screw up your imagination and assume
There weren’t any cars there actually it’s quite a nice wide green area and the same is true looking in the other direction so I think I need to be able to feel confident in my mind that the materials and the design uh complement that greater area uh and
At the moment um because I can’t really get a handle on the materials I’m not sure where we are I suppose the images do attempt to portray that in terms of the quality of materials that we’re looking for we’re aware of the the setting and and particularly adjacent to the railway
Arches um and some of the brick work and detailing on there and then obviously the stone so something which is clearly conditioned um and it’s portrayed in the images to hopefully uh give you some clarity and comfort of the quality that that’s coming forward the full sample
Panel of course will be built and and examined by officers in due course any more questions from Members or can we thank the applicants and move on okay thank you can I invite questions from officers now please Council groom in the presentation there was a um
A CGI of the inter area of one of the units the one of the um individual accommodation Studios is the word I’m looking for could I have another look at that that’s not is that is that one of the studios right do they all have access to Daylight
Yeah sorry was that a yes oh sorry so just excluding the top two floors where the configuration is slightly different because of the amount of glazing the the majority um each unit has one large window and one smaller window straight into so you’ll see to the right hand of the image there into
The areas that are that that are more commonly used for General living and then as you can see more or less screened off by virtue of the design of the kitchen um areas where you would be wanting a lower level of light less natural IE bedrooms Etc are centered
Inbound um so that your your primary living space is getting the advantage of the natural light thank you so the 375 square meters is actually compliant with did you say National or or lead standards 37 sorry 37 yes yeah that would be that would be for a studio that
Didn’t have shared accommodation that’s the standard would so what can’t I see there what the bedroom I can only just see can’t I through that narrow Gap right okay and what storage do they have for things like wardrobes and possessions so the national described space standard set out criteria on on um
Storage facility and storage spaces and each each unit has to hit that I believe it’s about 1.5 square meters uh that’s excluding sort of your kitchen storage and everything so you know you know your um your wardrobes your um your belongings but I think we need to take
Into account here and just just unbalance I mean yes it’s going to meet those criteria but the chances are these are these are generally shorter term tencies that people living here so the chances that they’re bringing their entire worldly belongings from from the Year Dot to live here are going to be
Are going to be unlikely that said it will you know we won’t be controlling how long people stay here these are suitable for long as long-term residential accommodation should that be the desire of the person and the type of product they want to live in but yes it it especially it meets those
Requirements it has that space for storage thank you and finally could I just have another look at the CGI of the building’s exterior yeah yeah that was just for me to get a closer look thank you you uh any more questions uh councilor D hey um can I just ask one about
Parking restrictions when we did a site visit um it was mostly double yellow lines if I if I remember rightly around those um two streets H is the plan for that to remain um yes I mean actually it’s no loading there around there but there was parking which was not on currently adopted
Highway which we can’t control because that was sort of related to the previous use so it was in private land but the actual um loading Bay and streets will remain there no parking there’s a loading Bay you know obviously there’s the turning head which is for turning
And then there’s a loading Bay on Brick Street I think thank you pizza please thank you I’m going to come to the design again I just wondered whether Steve could talk us through what he thought of the design because I am a bit odds with this one I’m not sure whether
I like it or not so I just want to see where we’ve perhaps got to and maybe Steve can reassure me in his usual positive way you see thank you chair thank you counselor uh I think the clue is in what you said you’re not sure whether you
Like it or not I think you need time just to look at it and I’m sorry I do apologize to members I say this thousands of times again when you’re dealing with large scale domestic properties that’s what these are you end up with that form I think they’ve done very well to handle
What is a damn difficult side can you you know he’s ended up I mean about the worst thing at College was when the lect oh well we’re all going to do a triangular building you know no thank you uh you always end up with wasted corners and
Space you always end up with difficulty fitting rooms in I think they’ve done a decent job in the building And it’s more late mod really it is modernist but it’s late modernist uh very simple and clear uh with a base middle and top and there’s not much more I can I understand members it’s concerns it’s like oh no but you can’t have excitement every time you know some calm
Helps you know calm helps and this is a simp simple clear calm building that does the job it’s you know uh i’ support it thank you sorry if it sounds boring thank you Stephen always interesting to hear your comments are you okay with that Peter did you want to come back
Okay all right then councilor KH thank you chair just to follow on from uh councilor car uh Matt I know we are building um quite a bit I mean I do like the design uh have we explored any balconies why wasn’t that explode uh and because you saying this
Is in this in a situation where uh people want to look out the windows uh the West the Ministries there as well these ministers there and there’s other icon uh SP places where people want to have a VI and have a cty why wasn’t can is explore from this
Project thank you I mean the first thing I would say is and with regard to I’ll come about with regard to the Civics trusts Vision document I mean it’s it’s a it’s a very good document and it’s a highly aspirational document but as you know and as has been talked about we
Have to we have to respond to the situation as it stands at the moment now this is a complicated site not just in terms of its shape but in terms of the infrastructure that runs around it a noise report has been done and it’s going to be very very difficult but not
Impossible to sound insulate this building to ensure that the transportation noise from the roads the railway the surrounding infrastructure are acceptable it’s going to have to be artificially ventilated the these These are the facts to develop this site for residential use unless you’re going to come forward with a an office use where
The noise doesn’t really matter through the day Etc now we do I do acknowledge the point that’s been made previously that this area does get quieter at night but the trains do run and they run they run late all through the night through that and it’s the main East West line As We
Know balconies are a great idea where you can provide them I would be concerned in this location about the amount of sound bleed that you would get in each residential unit that would be immediately facing your in order to even Juliet balconies you you would be needing to
Provide a sense of enclosure to those to those windows um and what is the likelihood of somebody really wanting to step out there onto five six Lanes of Highway as it stands today now that’s not to say that couldn’t happen in future I mean places adapt and places
Change don’t they and we had this with the Yorkshire post I recall there was the argument that well we’ll allow opening Windows because electric cars will be along one day and it’ll all be quieter and having one eye on the future like that is fine but where this building sits and
The amount of INF structure that’s around it the amount of noise and the environment where where it is I don’t think balconies are a good idea in terms of the imunity of the occupier I think we better placed providing larger scale units and there is also an awful lot of
New and oncoming public realm in the local area that I would draw attention to and if the Civic trusts document comes to fruition even to some extent there’s an awful lot that could be done with that area between the Minster and the development site that residents of this development will benefit from from
And if we think about a commercial operator at this moment in time that defensive wall that sits around the Garden area is there for a reason and it’s retained for a reason and that is that that’s a that’s an awfully dominant Highway environment at the moment but if
I was the owner of this building in 20 years time and those roads weren’t there and I wanted to attract somebody to come and live in my space I’d be doing something about that and applying to the planning Authority for permission to make changes
So it is it would be possible I think in certain locations on the buildings to retrofit this if the demand was there I think wherever it’s appropriate we’ve proven that we we go for balconies but we just don’t think it’s appropriate here with the situation as it stands on
The ground at the moment we also need to have regard to the fact that we don’t know what skate shaping from the next site that comes along is going to be um so this works and if the co-op site comes forward for redevelopment in future it can be made to work alongside
Another building that runs parallel to it in this format can we do that if we start in producing projecting balconies over the street I don’t know so it’s a conservative method it’s not a perfect building but it works and and that’s been our view on it thank you you Matt uh any further
Questions councilor Staples it was just a quick one actually following up from um what council when councelor groom was looking at the layout of the thank you can we move on to comments now please of course you can sorry it is a quick one and it’s possibly something I can’t find that um
It said um earlier on in the report something about um a connection a possible connection to District heating will be controlled by condition and I can’t find it in the draft conditions am I just not looking you have to forgive me I don’t have the number of the conditions
Committed to memory but it will be in there um bear with me for a second there were there are usually two conditions there we go the upset updated sustainability statement condition seven and eight secure that so they have to come back in with a sustainability strategy and the final details of It
Ultimately what we’re looking out here is a building in theory so the next stage of detail design will then will will then work out the final detail of that and they will have to prove that they meet the policies in the course strategy through that process and through consultation with the climate
Change officer and that’s where the detail comes in about which Taps you’re using you know what what’s the heat Source how many heat pumps do you need where are the PVS going um so at the moment there the applicant is in dialogue with leads pipes about getting a connection put through um ultimately
All the policy requires is that that connection space is reserved they’ve got quite a large Plant room at ground floor the approach at the moment is to use District heating but they are within their rights within the the envelope of that policy to perhaps use Source heat
Pumps Etc the intention at the moment is District heting thank you yeah sorry chair it’s just a quick one um so I get I get the feeling that panel are minded to um uh approve this and I just wanted to quickly check that if it is approved and then the Developers come
Back and say blah blah viability blah blah we have to cram in more units and reduce the 37 met Square size what happens then they’ll need they’ll need a revised consent so don’t need to come to us so it’ll come back to panel not to offices if it should happen this I’ll
Start um I’ve learned a new term today late modest and I must try and slip that into a conversation somewhere right right right can we can we just talk about design an internal space um most of these units most of these units meet the 37 square meters four of them
Don’t and I know I was told on site that’s only four so it doesn’t really matter actually I think it does matter you know I constantly constantly mention uh space I also think that a number of the designs within the main part of the structure are a bit contrived and there’s a significant
Amount of corridor and not a lot of living space and whilst I appreciate that this is a complex site it’s a funny shaped site I give you that um I am not convinced that the immunity for at least four and probably more of the residents will be uh of the standard
That we would like now that’s a bit of a problem really because um not withstanding what the Civic trusts say I think probably the Design’s okay probably it doesn’t it doesn’t dominate that space um and I think it’s part of setting a precedent for the rest of the development up the railway line
On both sides um and so I mean a slightly difficult position uh in relation to that because I’m not happy about the space um I I’m looking at the conditions and it talks about affordable housing offsite um I think my view would be could we beult that condition to say
Affordable housing within Al with in the hlit and Riverside Ward um because I presume hlit and Riverside are like everywhere else they could do with some affordable housing um and we need to I think we need to start being very particular about where we’re saying if a development affects an area
Then we need to mitigate against that within the area um and the final thing is on on site this morning I raised the issue of the sets which are on part of the I forgot the name of the road um but I I I don’t want us to lose those that historical
Feature of the leads landscape um through we we found we had the argument on was it Bley Road or Burley was it B Road well we effectively we’re digging up a a street that was covered in sets and making a token gesture of putting a few roundabout here
We’ve got a street scape that I think if you move that tar is cover is sets already because generally what used to happen is the the council would come along and just cover them over and it would seem to me not unreasonable as part of this development to look
At effectively exposing those sets to try and recreate a more I was going to say modest uh more pedestrian friendly atmosphere than black top and I appreciate that part of the Pavements are being widened and with some Street trees but they’re you know it’s not a big amount of development the
Street trees will be relatively small because there’s only a small space to put them in um and so I think if we can get an assurance around that um I’m reluctantly happy to support this because it is technically a bit of Co living I’m not sure that the combined
Space that we talk about on the ground floor actually most of it is co- living because there’s an element of a gym which not everybody will want to use there’s a a cinema which I’m assuming you’d have to book and that so that’s not in my opinion Co living um there’s
Something else which I’ve forgotten off the top of my head but the the conci section and the lounge section I think is co- living but I’m not sure where the rest of it is um and so that I have some concerns about the immunity for some of the residents of
This particular development because they will be living in substandard Flats any more comments Council gr just in relation to uh councelor Campbell’s point about the um strange shaped units that you consider to be unsatisfactory can you just bring up a plan where we can see some of those sorry yeah
If it helps that that that’s the those are the top two flaws which are the glass element and it’s the you see the two rounded Corners it’s those two those four flats at that level which if you notice there’s a significant amount of corridor to get in it and the actual usable space
Seems small um compared with the rest the rest quite obvious if you go down go down to the floors below um I get a similar impression about those Corner flats or the corner units in relation to usable space and Corridor space now I suppose you might say the
Corridor space is where you keep all your rubbish but to do if you can’t make it it bigger I I’ll comment as it is but I was just interested to see the layout in more detail thank you so starting with the the lower floors the the the these
Corner units that you’re talking about there they’re 41 square meters so although they’re awkward we consider that the awkward shape of them is is mitigated by their increased size the remaining units um there’s a small amount of lost Corridor space there but we’re we’re still in the the the L
Shapes at the corners there you still getting around about 35 square m there of actual usable space well I think there’s a solution I think we we should join up the corner units with the next straight unit and make one double-sized unit for two people and charge more rent
For it if I could just go to the top floor where that situation is a little bit more tricky to to uh to resolve councelor Campbell’s referring to this unit here and this unit here identified to me on site now the actual usable space within those units is 30 square m
However what I would say in recompense of that loss of floor space is those are the corners of the units where you’re going to get the more panoramic views because of the increased amount of glazing um not withstanding some of that will need to be blind we you know
Will’ll need to be shaded Etc but it off it talks to having a variety of products within the building and because it is a co- living scheme and because those spaces are supplanted with a additional accommodation within the building on balance as approximately sort of four 5%
Of the the overall units in the scheme to make the scheme work in townscape terms we’ve we’ve accepted that as officers now if members are minded to have a different view on that or they think there’s another solution obviously we would be you know we’d be open well I think that solution should
Be formally considered I’m just wondering map how we mitigate for um the increase in temperatures with climate change um these glazed units at the top how are we preventing them overheating so as I said there is a noise report that’s been put in in terms of what mechanical ventilation will be
Required in the building you’re right it’s also a climate change consideration as well as a residential immunity consideration there is a condition drafted uh to address that so when the technical work of the detailed design of the building Works they’re going to have to tell us what passive and active
Measures they’re going to be using and then that will go through both environmental health and the climate change officer for verification thank you um exactly how many are below the minimum space standards so to the upper two levels it would be four if You’ I mean spatially
The policy requires that they meet 37 square meters and they all meet 37 square meters but but you’re right the the actual detailed assessment of it that Council Campbell’s undertaken there is is correct you know some of that area is Corridor the policy that we work to
Does not differentiate between what is a corridor what is a space it talks about a gross internal area that said we’ve had regard we’ve had regard to that and we still consider it acceptable as as a minority instance the so basically you’ve got you’ve got 16 that that that are at 41
Square meters and are in awkward shape but a larger size to compensate you’ve got 16 that are 3 square m short of the space standard in terms of the practicalities of the use of the unit but meet the space standard in terms of its gross internal area and then you’ve
Got those four at the top of the building where they’re awkward and effectively the amount of usable space is 30 square m and that’s in a scheme of 100 118 units thank you sorry just come back um I mean none of those are Architects sitting on the
Panel so I feel like it’s a bit silly for us to go oh yeah if you put a line here you put a line here blah blah blah um I feel like an architect to be able to do a much better job like working out how to maximize floor space so that no
One does have a flat with a lot less usable space um I mean Architects get paid quite a lot more than I do at least so like I’m sure I’m sure that they’d be able to cble submit together thank you chair thank you members I’m just going to put this out
There so that members can take it into into consideration when you but I’ll do it this is a difficult job corner you know triangular buildings on the corner as I said to you earlier you know it’s it’s the nightmare practice at College you’re always going to end up
With buildings rooms different shape but one of the things it doesn’t often come up in plannings is the fire there’s minimum distances for example there’s a minimum distance from the corner of the room to the door and that does not include if if you’ve got a bed you’ve
Got to include going round it and then there’s a minimum distance from the door to the fire core you with me doing these Flats ain’t an easy job you know and I just thought I’d mentioned that you know you look at that plan and yes you might
Say there’s a lot of doors but there’ll be 2our fire doors and the are there for a purpose you know it’s the minimum distance across the room and for disabled and then the minimum distance to the core not an easy game with a job like this with a site like this anyway
Just solid share I thought I’d just add that thank you chair it it just to clarify some of the conversation around the the size of the units so we don’t have an adopted policy but as members know we’ve got now an adopted advice note uh which gives some guidance on
These matters and what it says about the size of the studios is that they tend to be less than the National Space standards for cold Living Products our ambition is to negotiate as far as possible as close to space standards as possible but it recognizes that that
Where a lesser private space is proposed the council will encourage the private space Not only to be as close as ndds which is National Space standards but we’ll also consider the Quantum of communal space based on aggregate aggregating out the shortfall so in effect what we’re saying is that if
There’s a shortfall in the private Studio space standards we’d be looking for that to be mitigated by the Quantum of communal space and in this case the Quantum of communal spaces compensates for the short the shortfalls that M matters outlined uh so members just need
To be aware of that Nuance it isn’t a an absolute requirement to meet minimum space standards because it’s a COR living product we we work more flexibly thank you chair thank you thank you chair um I think I’m minded a couple of things on this this
This is the first C scheme we’ve got so whatever we work to here sets a precedent for whatever else comes forward the the one difficulty is I don’t really want a whole set of Apartments to come forward that are all 30 square meters plus a corridor I think
The ones that are slightly smaller I’m happy that some of the communal space does but if there’s 30 square meters of available living space then 20% of your apartment if I’m if my math is is right is Corridor now some people may love a good Corridor and certainly if you got
Kids and old of shoes then you need a bloing long Corridor to put them all in but um if you’re living on your own I’m assuming you don’t necessarily need that at all times so I I’m reasonably happy with those triangular ones because we can say that they’ve made a a
Compensation there they’ provided a larger apartment and we’re getting close to the the space standards and in the usable space but I am a bit concerned that those circular ones are pushing it a little bit it it would have been lovely were they roof Gardens for extra communal space for people I’m not
Entirely sure that if you divide the communal space between the number of people you end up getting that extra s and a half meters each that technically I would think that that person was losing from that apartment so I’m happy with the other ones the Triangular ones but I’m a bit concerned
About those circular ones I I gather you’ll have a lovely view when looking out of it but he’d have a lovely view looking out of a coule if it was CED in the right place and and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t necessarily say that that factors all the way
Along um yeah I suppose I we going to make a similar point that um just as just as councilor Campbell always says we have space standards for a reason um we it may well be that the PO policy says what was it delit that you you may accept slightly
Less if the Design’s really good or something like that but I think is we’ve already oh that we can accept smaller units and the space standards providing that shortfall is compensated for by the communal space and in this case as officers we’re advising you that it is
No can we have a discussion about the the communal space because I’m looking at the drawing uh and it’s very small print so you’ll have to bear with me while I hold it up to my nose uh but I’m looking at the communal space and there’s a laundry which everybody will use
Right I I don’t think we there’s any dispute about that there’s the concierge you’ll be presumably there keeping an eye on things which is I suppose you could call it technically communal but actually it be occupied by the concierge um there’s a lounge um which people may sit in that’s
Accessible to all um I’m not actually sure why you’d want to sit in the lounge at that location but not that’s it and then there’s something that’s described as workspace and I’m assuming it’s one of the communal tables everybody sits around yeah and answers their emails the other three blocks which are the
Gym the meeting room and forgive me the cinema um are rooms that you would are not really communal rooms they’re rooms that are nice you can book them uh or you could use them um but they’re not part of that communal space and I I I
Look at that and I think to myself a substantial chunk of that communal space is space you’d get within any managed development so you’d get a concierge in a manage development and you get an entrance Lobby and you might nowadays get a a laundry Lounge well that I think that’s part of the
Entrance Lobby the workspace is perhaps different and I’d agree that but I think as you know I have gone on for a very very long time about usable space for people to live in and we are setting a precedent um you know I I I accept Peter’s comment in relation
To one or two of them that you might just you know hold your nose a bit and say well yes we could use that but there are at least four in there that are nowhere near and Caroline’s comment in relation to I suppose what would technically be
Our our policy if this was a ail to rent development um which is we’d like a mix is there are no two there are no there are no units for couples this is all for single people or people are very friendly I suppose but in effect this is
All for single people not for couples and I think you could you could as car as Caroline says without too much effort create some spaces that were for a couple um and actually would be quite fine as far as most of us are concerned
Uh at the moment I I’m you know I won’t vote for this because of the space and I can’t do that because we have a policy can I just come back um there was a double room actually at the visit um which I looked into it’s very small for
A double room but it it was designed for two people and two rents were charged or you know double the amount was charged for the bigger room thank you chair so in addition to the communal areas that councilor Campbell has flagged up which are on the lower
Floor each floor has 70 square meters shared kitchen dining and living space Lou space so that’s significant uh because it’s on each floor it’s available directly available to those Flats on that floor the top two floors have slightly less but they also have communal kitchen and dining space 40 square
Meters um so members need to take that into account uh in terms of starting to redesign the scheme um clearly the the application is in the form that it is and that’s the one we’re being asked to consider um we do have the developers here it’s a question I think about whether the
There’s a a potential for two bedroom units in this development for them rather than us um but ultimately this is a core living scheme aimed at single people not at families and our advice not recognizes that so again I just ask members to be aware of that thank you chair
Okay thank you can I can I just ask Onna uh let’s say this is a hypothetical point so so were this not a co- living scheme and that be a studio apartment within itself um would we see that those apartments with a large amount of corridors met or did not meet the space
Standards so that’s point one so were those there are we saying that if you the space standards would allow a 2X two met bedroom and then the rest of it to be one ridiculously long Corridor the space standards not as granular as that is one or were we
Looking at this as a studio apartment would that apartment not meet I’ve kind of added up all of in the best sum I can all of the communal space listed on the first page of the report um which I gather probably includes everything the cinema and everything and I would agree with
You that the cinema is not there all the time so it it probably isn’t communal space forever but that just provides seven me Meers if you take into account everything per person on average but obviously those on the top have slightly less because the kitchens are 40 square
Meters rather than 70 square meters so if you live on those top floors you actually have less communal space I understand as far as I understand than some of the others so I guess one uh very clear point of fact on that so were this a studio apartment and we
Weren’t in communal uh looking at the communal space at all would we count those as meeting the space standards just because they’re 37 meters regardless of the fact that a lot of that space is unusable and then I’m concerned that the average of the space doesn’t make up the seven meters if
You’re on Floors eight and nine if you had a larger kitchen actually and you’re on the others it would but actually I don’t my sum doesn’t quite work like that well what I was what I was going to say uh is we could dance around this all evening uh uh and I
Think um the developers uh who who’ s through more the one of our meetings in the past of members of it have must probably have picked up that we have some congrave concerns around this the internal space so I will propose well what I will
Say is I think in principle the idea of a co-living development on this site is not something we would oppose in principle and I’m not noticing anybody shaking their head at that one and I think not withstanding what the uh Civic Society have said we are um quite relaxed about the
Design and its impact on that wider Green Space in front of the um in front of the minister but we have this we have these grave concerns about the the amount of usable space in some of the units on this site and therefore I would propose that we
Defer making a decision on this particular application for one cycle to allow officers and the developer to have a discussion around how we might our how they may might make the flats we have concerns about uh more closely meet our standards for space within living units you a call I’ll accept that a
Second from Council gr is it okay it’s been seconded Council gr we do we do need to move on I’m sorry yeah we do need to move on I agree I was only just going to ask do you think it would be appropriate to ask the developers to come forward now and
Respond to the points we’ve made before we make that final decision or not well with with greatest respect chair I I understand what we’re trying to be helpful but I think I am trying to be helpful by saying to them I think you need to think about this and I don’t
Think you can think about it sitting here this afternoon I understand what you’re trying to say and I understand we’re trying to be helpful and I’m trying to be helpful because I’m trying not to vote against this um and so it would seem to me perhaps best for them
To reflect on what we’ve said have that discussion and then come well uh uh you know I I if I’m honest with you they may well be shaking their head but actually we’re making the decision aren’t we uh and it seems to me that will be the way forward and that’s
Why I’m quite specifically saying we do it for one cycle we’re only holding you up for three weeks and and I think we it’s been said haven’t it they’re not going to start for they’re not due to start next week so we need and because this is the first
One we need to get it right we we do need to move on as well can I say that it probably wouldn’t be appropriate to bring uh the developers forwards they’ve heard what we said but I think even if they give us an insurance members would want to see the
New form the new layout and that’s not going to happen today so I think in In fairness it’s been moved and seconded for a deferral for one cycle and I’m happy to put that to to the panel to I’m happy to put that to the panel are you speaking against it okay
Then we put it to the panel bring some temp we can add that to but it would have come anyway when when we look for Reserve matters would we okay poen has moved with the feral and it’s been seconded by Council Brooks all those it for one cycle okay that that’s
You guarantee that depends on the development okay do you want to speak on let just say we can’t guarantee it be one cycle because that is well it’s in four weeks time the next meeting but clearly there’s a lead in time for preparing reports and for
The developer to reconsider so it may be Beyond one side so okay that acceptable that’s acceptable but this is the only issue that we are referring it for is that correct do you want to sum up please as well so me members have made it quite
Clear that they have a concern about the the smaller units uh that have been proposed particularly the the awkward layout and the failure to meet the uh National Space standards uh it’s been deferred on that basis for that matter to be considered with the applicant thank you chair thank
You and can I thank you all for your attendance and I’m sure you enjoy the C Council Council St stat please do come along it’s always exciting around this table never boring thank you all safe tuning home