Cyber security experts getting scammed | James O’Brien – The Whole Show

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This is LBC from Global leading Britain’s conversation with James O’Brien good morning it’s 3 minutes after 10 I hope you had a splendid weekend it happened to me would you believe someone as cynical and as skeptical and as uh as wise I like to think as me I came within nanc of being

A victim of an online fraud so I I got my ear picked up at that story we will return to it a little later in the program I’ll tell you what I I’m seriously nan no second I was one button away from losing about a grand losing

About ,000 pounds um so I’ve completely changed my view I used to rather unkindly think anyone who falls for that kind of stuff must be a bit of a flump but my apologies um and and we shall look at some of the more imaginative or or uh lesser known examples of that kind

Of crime later in the program uh it’s 4 minutes after 10 I want to begin with with housing and I want to talk about it because well I I know this is a phrase that probably doesn’t strike joy into your heart but Michael go said something interesting uh he he he essentially

Talked about the threat to democracy itself that is posed by adults who have either never left home or who are returning home well into their 20s 30s and Beyond the number of firsttime buyers is falling the cost of living crisis sky rents Rising house prices all of this uh poses possibly an existential

Threat to the political order is Michael Gove thinking that possibly democracy itself or certainly capitalism as most of us understand it could be under threat um I I I I never know quite how to have this conversation because I think that I just squeaked over the line

You know like when the shutters are coming down on a shop and you you you you you roll underneath it just before it reaches the ground or the the they’re just about to pull the gate across at a gig and you just managed to wiggle your

Way just Weagle is a good word I’ve turned into leanders and I’m inventing words now you Weagle we what a great word why is Weagle not a word you Weagle your way in just at the very last minute it’s like a cross between a squeeze and a wiggle you wiggle you that’s a

Wonderful word that’s my gift to the world the word Weagle um you wiggle your way in at the very last minute I I was like that you just got over the line you’re watching the clock count down and you just get to the bank as the so I

Just got over the line I don’t come from money I uh my dad and mom spent any money they had on our educations and and by the time that we left school uh there wasn’t much left cuz my dad’s employment situation had changed so there was never

Any cash for me to sort of fall back on any any property purchasing my wife and I did was going to be 100% self-generated and I I I I’m not very good at saving and things like that but I was quite good at earning back in the

Day I I I I climbed up the greasy pole of national newspapers looking back surprisingly quickly to to the point where we could buy a place when we got married and we bought it with a 110% mortgage I’ve mentioned this to you before and I apologize for the

Repetition but I think it’s really important because one thing I’m never going to be guilty of is falling into the Trap of thinking that being 28 now is in any way similar to being 28 when I was 28 not only has the multiple relationship between income and

Average house price got even bigger got even worse but the access to cheap money the access to cheap mortgages has ceased to exist so there’s reasons why I get confused about this stuff one of the reasons I get confused about this stuff is housing is a finite resource

So what do you see what I mean there’s like a sort of big cloud of confusion about to appear in your brain because okay so you can’t afford it now like I could when I was 28 but what happens to it it’s still there the flat that I

Bought when I was 28 right didn’t magically materialize as a consequence of me being able to afford it the flat was there and then we bought it but if we hadn’t bought it it would still have been there and someone else would have bought so I don’t quite understand the

Relationship between supply and demand Supply and shortages particularly when an awful lot of this is caused by cost and as opposed to a breakdown in supply and demand so I I just I’m fascinated by what it does to you but I’m very conscious of sounding even smugger than

Usual I don’t I I just I fully believe that if I was 28 now even having made something of an impact in the profession that I had chosen and I was a show business editor of a national newspaper which is a pretty cool job and back then

It was quite well paid I don’t think it is now so if I was 28 now I wouldn’t be close to getting on the property ladder I would be hoping that the influence of my new wife would um introduce some responsibility to my existence and we’d actually be able to save up a

Significant deposit but it would take ages and we’d be paying rent in the meantime there’s no sort of prospect of living at home if you working in London and your mom lives in kidderminster it’s not an option and and what I don’t know is what it does to you because you can’t

Compare the you that you are with the you that you would be I can almost compare the you that I am with the you that I would be I can imagine being 28 I can look at what things cost now I can look at what the relationship is between

Income and house prices and I can actually I can certainly empathize but I think it’s a more effective mental exercise to imagine what you would feel like and and one of the things you do subconsciously is watch you watch it grow the value of your home until relatively recently I mean there was

Periods 20 years ago where and and less where you would earn more in a year from the value of your home than you would from your actual income and that obviously is part of the reason why the problems are where they are now 10 minutes after 10 is the time you need a

Bloody question don’t you you need a question you’re so demanding honestly it’s Monday morning I’ve barely I hit the ground right you need a question before you can ring me don’t you you need a question what’s the question I I I I do think the question of how has

This happened is really interesting because of that confusion that I have surrounding supply and demand you can’t so who’s in the house you would be in if you had more money do you see what am I saying really stupid who is living in the home that you would be living in if

You had a deposit if you could afford if you could get a mortgage are you living in it but paying rent to the private land are you living in it you’re living in the home that you would own but instead of paying your own mortgage you’re paying your landlord’s mortgage

In which case private and I think it’s sometimes a bit of a lazy swing I was a private landlord for a while largely by accident but that doesn’t excuse my moral culpability for the for the for the crisis that was sweeping the country at the time what what who is in the home

That you would own if the economic situation if the economic landscape was the same now as it was in the year 2000 when I became a property owner who’s in it is it is it private landlords so you are in it but you’re paying their mortgage when you

Could actually you can prove I’ve said that to you before haven’t I it’s not that you can’t afford to pay a house it’s just you can’t afford to buy it for yourself you’ve got the monthly out goinging you can buy it the um problem is it’s the landlord’s mortgage that

You’re paying off so that’s the problem I it’s a bit of a lazy swing but there are other programs on this radio station where the um where the tone can sometimes sound as if it’s National save the landlord week so I I think we can have a little bit of balance I think

That private landlords are obviously a large contributor to the problems that the country currently faces to the problem of not being able to buy a home for yourself because you’re busy buying for your landlord on a buy to mortgage but that’s that’s changed a little bit

12 minutes after 10 is the time um I I I just glanc at the text here you go Ben’s been in touch to blame immigrants which I you know obviously the the volume of humanity is going to be part of the question of supply and demand but why

You’d be cross with a with a nurse from Kenya and not with someone over the road who’s got seven children or Boris Johnson’s uh output of of children if you cross about the number of humans that are uh seeking accommodation it seems to me a little bit lazy and

Possibly racist to reach first for the foreigners but hey that’s just me that but who’s living in that home who is living in the home that you would be living in if the economic landscape in 2024 was the same as what it was in the year 2000 12 minutes after 10 is the

Time so that is one way into the question of how has this happened how has this happened uh hit the numbers now you will get through right so that’s something everyone can play with 0345 6060 973 now the next question is a trickier one and I don’t even know if you’ve

Thought about it before but I want you to try to compare you now with who you would be if the economic landscape in 2024 was the same as it was in 2000 so by the way in the year 2000 people like Ben were still blaming immigrants for everything so it that certainly is

Isn’t the uh the major driver of of change or decline cuz the rhetoric of blaming Foreigners for absolutely everything in this country is just a gift isn’t it to the people who are really responsible but but what does it do to you do you think I don’t know that

We’ve ever had a phone in before based upon the wisdom of Michael Gove but he’s got a point here orbe it a self-serving one he’s worried about the conservative party ceasing to exist as a viable political force in the mind of generations that can’t ever get on the

Property ladder but what does it do to you what does it do to you you you I used to do this phone in bearing in mind how long I’ve had this job so 10 years ago we would have this conversation five years ago we would have this conversation from the

Perspective of growing up through childhood and into teenage years and always just presuming that that would be the next thing along on the conveyor belt remember the generation game if you’re a certain age you have to memorize all the prizes on the conveyor Bel cuddly toy teas made uh selection of

Cheeses I don’t think they ever had a selection of cheeses but but that that would be so for someone of my background and class socioeconomic class you you went to school and then you went to University and then you rented for a bit and then you got on the property ladder

And somehow I think that informs my relationship with the society in which I live so that the first time you got the keys I remember but we met the estate agent in a pub actually uh in West London and and got the keys for our own place it’s a sort of curious combination

Of of romance because it was our first home together we just got back from honeymoon a curious combination of romance and and maturity actually KY we’re grown-ups now but I think it was costing us less than we were paying together in rent to actually have our own place with the mortgage and it

Changed the nature of my relationship with Society I think I’m not I’m not someone who knows the price of everything or indeed the value of nothing but I I don’t I don’t I don’t have like columns in my head of of of money and what I

Should be do I’m not good like that I could be a lot better but but I’m a homeowner I’m a homeowner and that I think that increases the sense of stake that I have in society I really do and and listen I take all the accusations of smugness

That you want but it is normal for someone in their early 50s to have be been become a homeowner in their late 20s right it’s just normal it’s not it’s not particularly privileged it was just normal and it’s not now and I want to know what that

Changes I want to know what that changes 0345 606 973 is the number that you need um and there is a little bit of a conundrum here isn’t there for the racists because if the property shortages are caused in large part by IM immigration people buying their own homes well then they

Can’t be scers can they because they’re paying tax and earning sufficient amounts of money to to buy their own homes in a market where it’s really hard to buy your own home so you can’t simultaneously be responsible for the housing shortage and a drain on the economy because if you’re a homeowner

You’re the opposite of a drain on the economy unless it could be argued you’re a private landlord uh like Jeremy Hunt and various other members of the cabinet is that the big one is that the big one the the the proliferation of buct mortgages because they can never do

Anything about that the politicians and do you know why I love this so you sit here and you think I know we can fix this really easily we’ll make it much harder to be a landlord make it much less financially rewarding to be a landlord there’s one enormous reason why

That could never happen in this country and I bet if you don’t know already what it is then I’ll tell you after this actually and I leave you thinking what is the single most enormous reason why no government in the United Kingdom could ever go in very hard on

Landlords I’ll tell you in a moment but before that you tell me what’s going on in the housing market and what does the lack of home ownership do to your sense of society your sense of stakeholding in the society that we all inhabit 0345 6060 973 James O’Brien on

LBC James O’Brien on LBC it is is 21 minutes after 10 you are listening to James O’Brien on LBC um Michael go said something sensible stop all the clocks scare the horses he’s essentially said that if you can’t get on the property ladder you could feel that democracy and

Capitalism don’t work and I just wonder where you sit on that and and you need to be different from me you need to feel shut out of the system and maybe you don’t but if you do what does it do to you Adam’s encro and Adam what would you like to

Say uh on what on what end of the question so what does it do to me uh being what whatever you rang in to say mate sorry you know me I go off on tangent but but whatever prompted you to pick I should say why did you pick up

The phone that’s what I normally say to people because you’re talking about me right I have tried to get on the property ladder several times whether it be buying the rented property that I in because I had the opportunity to do so uh or or right back at the beginning

When I wanted to buy a flat uh when I was 16 I was able to buy a flat but obviously not 18 when I was 18 I was told I needed a sizable deposit that I didn’t have right uh the years went on and basically every time I got a

Financial increase in my situation or managed to get some money behind me it was never enough right last how old are you now how old are you now I oh I am 39 39 you got a big one coming up mate you should you should be on your

Toes well so go what what does it do what do so you understand exactly what I’m talking about then what what does it do to you this sense of being shut out well I will I can never retire I can never provide anything for my children

In form of financial help because I will always be paying rent having to find 2,000 a month if there’s no increases in any way shape or form after tax yeah of course after tax and there let’s be frank and honest I’m I’m on an okay salary but uh there’s no way my

Retirement is ever going to give me that and that’s without bills etc etc so I can never ever retire it’s not it’s not possible unless something massive changes I blame the government and in part yes uh private landlords because that’s the reason why I feel that the house prices have increased because it’s

Guaranteed money someone has to live there if other people can’t buy it I might as well buy it as a private landlord if only I could because somebody’s going to have to pay there but I me the percentages aren’t huge I I I think I don’t know if it’s even as

High as 10% that that that the amount of private landlords taking up percentage of the property market so it’s part of the problem but it’s not the only problem it’s not the only problem I I think I think it’s being shored up by the government to stop the housing from

Plummeting back to where it was before but you need the es and flows to keep people on the market on on the ladder if it just goes up and it only ever goes up why would anyone want to sell it get Tighter and Tighter and Tighter and

Tighter just leave it empty and watch watch the income as it were increase now Less Price Less houses I don’t know how many are empty that might be the big thing to so hang on before because I want to crack on sorry there’s loads of people waiting but but does it cuz

That’s that’s Bleak I mean and and I wonder how many people listening possibly a bit younger than you haven’t clocked that they’re in the same boat that you’re in I’m never going to have that thing to fall back on you know that that wealth behind me that Capital there

You go it’s Capital it’s literally Capital what what does it do does it does it change the way you think does it change the way you think about Society does it change the way you feel it it angers me if I think about it I try not

To think about it last few years before retirement should be relaxing and able to spend a bit of money and my colleagues can do that because they’ve paid their mortgage off yeah I will never be able to not rent and and I mean and for anybody

Anybody in your boat who sorry Adam I did I did warn you I was going to move on so I I know you’ve got a lot else to say but there loads of other people in in in similar situations and I mean you know you don’t have the prospect of an

Inheritance on the horizon some people will but that that that is the only way out of the situation you describe what does it do for our politics I wonder what it does it make you disengage does it do you sort of Step Back From the fry

Because you don’t feel it’s about you uh Molly’s in Southampton Molly what would you like to say hi yeah so I’ve got a situation which I think a lot of people are in um I me and my husband broke up to years ago right um and basically just

Couldn’t afford to properly separate in terms of our living situation yeah um we’ve got two children um my son’s got uh SC needs he’s autistic and things like that so we’re obviously like need to take that into consideration as well but um we were you know we were working

Out that our our as a unit our outgoings would go from about £2,000 a month to five wealth got depending on where I’d have to rent for me to get a three-bedroom house which is what i’ need I have a boy and a girl and things

Like that and he obviously needs his own space so it you’re in Southampton you’re looking at ,500 a month for a free bedroom house and then even to go and view the property so I couldn’t even view anywhere without proving that I earned at least one property was £47,000

A year no guarant so pay slips you have to provide pay slips to the estate agent before you are vetted before you can even view a property gosh so you to explain your your financial circumstances um some of them were no guarantors um it yeah it’s ridiculous so

And then one estate agent said to me oh there is one solution you could pay a year’s rent up front so this is just a rent a place this is this is just to find a place to rent not to not to buy

This is no so we own our house so I live I I still living with your ex yeah and luckily we get on relatively okay when it comes to the children you know we we’re we’re lucky like he is a head of Department in a secondary school he we should we should

Not be struggling you know like I remember my parents uh when I was growing up one of them had to work and and you got by like okay we weren’t really well off but you could get by and I think that’s the cost of living and everything involved I mean I was just

Telling your research I spent £400 on food in two and a half weeks and I sort of asked all my friends with had the same amount of kids and similar things and they were like yeah that’s probably about right you know I thought I’d been really excessive and that’s just how

Much it cost to feed to you know to the the idea of saving up to get a deposit or I I I mean if you sold the place you’re in now the splitting it two ways would be wouldn’t get you anywhere thank what what does it do to you forgive me

Because this sounds a bit morish or or or or vois almost but what you’ve just described that sense this isn’t supposed to happen to us because of of where you sit socioeconomically and what your ex does for a living but but what does it do to you politically does it make you

Disengage does it does it feel like the cogs are turning but they’re not actually connecting with each other sometimes or or what what it it doesn’t make me disengaged because I I’m really interested in politics and things like I listen to you every day I love I love

Listening to it all but if if I was I I’m I’m lucky enough to look at it from like more of a political point of view but I I am very overwhelmed a lot of the time at the thought of the future and I’ve brought my children up my

Ex-husband had a career and he’s done very well but obviously if we when we sell our house he is in a position where he can take his his money he’s got his income he can prove his income I can’t do that I’d have to use the 20 th you

Know 20,000 for a Year’s worth of rent upfront was the solution I was offered by an estate agent which is my children that’s all I have for my children well yeah but also that’s a deposit for a mortgage so you could be paying your own mortgage instead of of your landlords if

You’ve managed to get that chunk of change in place at the same time olle thank you I I I I mean depressing is probably the word I’d use to describe the fact that the phones are ringing off the hook it’s um it’s this is this is

True and whether or not Michael Gove is going to butter any parsnips by drawing attention to it I any political par Snips I do not know but this seems to me to be a hugely important issue that successive governments but particularly the last 14 years have uh have made

Worse it’s half past 10 I forgot to tell you didn’t I it’s the king it’s the king it’s not lots of you suggesting it’s all the MPS who are also private landlords it’s the king it’s the crown estate the biggest landlords in the country came over with William the Conqueror or or or

Live in palaces and castles the crown estate the duy of Cornwall The Duke of Westminster what do you think owns all those properties so how are they going to bring in a meaningful law to uh make it less attractive to be a landlord when you’d be undermining the the thousand

Year old tradition that were started shortly after the Norman Conquest Thomas wats is here now with your headlines James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC it is 10:34 you’re listening to James O’Brien on LBC um what does it do to society go on put it’s Monday got lots of energy put your

Thinking cap on what does it do to society this is this is generational now looking at my switchboard I I I absolutely bonkers already people and I thought Molly put it very well put it very sympathetically people who just didn’t expect to be in this situation people who presumed they would be

Homeowners now addressing the fact that they perhaps never will be um even going backwards in the event of splitting up and not being able to buy two property so you move into rental and my friend Wayne who used to be I’m sure he won’t mind me saying he used to wa quite

Lyrical about renting um used to use that old derivation from the French it’s like a death tax isn’t it and Mort Gorge Mort go that’s where the word comes from um and he he’d say to me look my fridge breaks I find my landlord he replaces it

But um he’s saying you know he’s 42 years old and I have na all to show for it I can’t use the Anglo-Saxon word that he he deploys in this tweet um I’ve paid over £200,000 in rent what’s the point then that’s that’s that’s political I that is

Someone in so iy and yet not in it subsidizing someone else is fairly considerable wealth I’m not I’m not down on landlords I’m completely not down on landlords but neither do we ignore the fact that Wayne is buying a flat for somebody else by paying that money every month

That could be going towards a mortgage but in the absence of a deposit and then you’ve got 99% mortgages on the horizon today in one newspaper report which I think would would that solve the problem or would that just get a few more people onto the Lifeboat I don’t know but what

Does it do to your relationship with Society John’s in Brighton John what would you like to say uh hey James I’m a a yeah I’m a 28y old renter um been renting for the last 10 years I think it’s just um it’s just uncertainty that’s just constantly hanging over you

We’ve had we’ve had a no fault eviction before right um been turfed out basically because they wanted to rise the rent by about a third because they could they think they could find they were confident they could find someone who could pay it well exactly and this is it you know

You’ve got a situation where you know you can’t you can’t complain about things you know you don’t it’s you’re not really a real person at that point because you’re constantly having to think about the whims of someone else who could Turf you out at any moment and

Even if you got a good job you know I’ve got quite good salary my toward as my partner uh it’s just nowhere near on the horizon you can’t get onto that you know next moment really where maybe you know can’t even consider having kids you can’t think about that stuff really when

Did you realize what when did I when did I realize this this was the case yeah cuz you don’t when you were 18 you didn’t you’re 18 I’ll rent for a few years and then I’ll move so when when because you you I mean it’s interesting that you’re

28 that’s exactly the age I was when I got a 110% mortgage and without that I think I’d be where you are now if this was well 24 years ago I don’t know to be honest I don’t think it’s really been something that’s ever been on my Horizon

I don’t have any inheritance coming through the pipe no um so you know it’s really down to me if I’m ever going to get to that moment but um but yeah I would I probably say it’s not even that there was a moment I realized it’s a

It’s it’s never been within a grasp um because of you know because of the conditions my parents were the same they had 100% well they had a 50 100% mortgage but it was half you know half rent half like shared ownership thing um so it’s like it’s as if the the social

Contract is changing from your generation to mine isn’t it is it’s that sense of yeah stakeholding is going yeah yeah absolutely and there and there’s definitely you know like that’s it’s you know it’s creating a lot of resentment I feel definitely around around you know our generation really that you know it’s

A ladder being pulled up you know Etc so and and and of course that makes your generation and oddly across Europe we’re quite good at this despite the efforts of people like farage and the rest of them it does perhaps make your generation susceptible to the old snake

Oil of of blaming it all on incomers or on foreigners but at the moment that doesn’t seem to have much traction because I suppose you can actually see the reality of the situ and the reality is a no fault eviction from your landlord it’s not not you know moving a

Refugee into the home that would otherwise be yours it’s it’s it’s the economics of the situation not the demographics I think well I think and as well also the issue is now you know like there’s always that that same old saying when anyone’s made a bit of buck they

Say something like well we’ve worked really hard for it and the social contracts change and the fact of everyone bloody works hard sorry no no that’s perfectly it’s one of my it’s one of my absolute bug Bears whatever the subject is it’s usually private education we work Jolly hard to send

Our everyone else is just coasting it everyone else is just swinging the lead everyone else is just sitting on a deck chair drinking logger all yeah I know and that’s that’s Molly touched on that as well and it is it’s I think this is really significant that sense that the

The the deal has changed and and it’s now really unfair because for good or for ill if you’re thinking about the end of the line you’re thinking about retirement the first caller I think made that point really starkly you’ve got no Nest EG you’ve got you got nothing

There and and the if rents were cheap like they are in some European countries Austria is a remarkable model for rent control and huge SES of social housing if you’ve got low rent you can have savings you’ve got high rent and impossible entry into the housing market

It’s the worst of all imaginable worlds unless you’re a private landlord like the chancellor of the bloody X Checker Billy’s inventor on the AIS of white Billy what would you like to say hi good morning James I want to sort of give you my my position and just sort of tell you

Where it’s where I’m coming from from my angle so I spent two years in Watford having qualified to be a teacher and then I I sort of uprooted myself and moved back down to where where all my family are on the a of white because the

Housing and the rent just kept going up and up and up and it was really for me James the cost of living crisis yes in in combination with everything else that pushed me to make that decision but even when I was in Watford teaching within

The first year I moved into a flat with my flat mate at the time in high Wier and we have to commute 50 minutes a day and I know that’s not the worst thing in the world to do but it’s not IDE is it well it isn’t it isn’t ideal and the

Picture I’m trying to paint is exactly what I found up to to say to you and your producer that I spoke to and that was that you just end up buying out of the society that you’re in and I think it’s really sad this is this

Is every call it’s it’s quite it doesn’t happen very often this that the idea that we have found a seam of of of lived experience that is to be fair Michael Gove seems to be aware of it or or orbe it that he’s more worried about it for political reasons than empathetic

Reasons and you’re a teacher so you’re you know you are you should be a valued member of society and yet the message you’re getting from society is that you’re not valued enough to be a homeowner well do you know what I I’ll be entirely honest with you I’m going to

Give you some Financial details here I one if you’re sure you know I don’t want to pry oh of course no you can you can dig as much as you want James one of the things I love about listening to you is you you’re the only presenter that digs

And puts things under the microscope and I’m grateful for that but I don’t I don’t want to make you sort of blush with compliments that’s enough I know you enough about me enough enough about me tell me more about you well would say go on tell me the detail that you were

Going to share so in a in a nutshell really it’s a good thing that it happened because I love being back home with my family but actually the trigger point that made me take an eight grand pay cut and a demotion was because of the cost of housing and it’s cheaper to

Live over here and at the moment although I’m living with my dad it is cheaper over here to rent a two-bedroom flat so I can have a whole extra spare bedroom to myself than it was to stay up in Watford on 8 Grand pay rise and and a

Promotion effectively and I just think what what is the world coming to when somebody is working their bus off for 40 50 hours a week and they can’t even afford to get even a shared ownership property that was the best I was looking at yeah I know I and you’re not alone

There’s a medic in one newspaper today um who is renting a room uh in a in a in a home chair with a with a with a with a land lady um she’s got quite a good deal on it but she’s a 26-year-old NHS medic and and again key workers is the phrase

We’re looking for teachers doctors nurses it’s bizarre actually the more you think about it as as as Billy far too young at the age of 27 to be using the phrase what is the world coming to but my goodness me he’s right what is the world coming to when a teacher can’t

Afford to live anywhere near the school that they work in or indeed can’t afford to buy a home anywhere in the country um practically this is enormous isn’t it this is absolutely sort of Epic um should we have a look at idiots Corner here’s John an idiots Corner did your

Fantastic labor party do anything about this topic when they were in power John it’s 2024 the labor party haven’t been in power since 2010 I appreciate you listening to this thinking H maybe we’re the bad guys maybe these people that I’ve been voting for all my life are

Actually greedy uh Hooligans but it it is such a stupid contribution to the conversation and and the short answer is yes the situation was much less bad when the Tories came into power than it is now and one of the areas where this perhaps is most acute is in the area of

Empty homes there’s a fascinating organization called action on empty homes that corpsy has alerted me to or reminded me of and the numbers they’ve got in 2023 alone there’s about a 5% increase in the number of empty homes so 261,000 empty homes I I I I mean what is that

About actually that’s another question 0345 60609 73 what is that about it’s 10:45 James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC here is what the kids call a thread it’s a great thread um and it is from one of my favorite Twitter contributors who who always bring something new to the

Program he tweets as no hostages z0 um um particularly good on Irish politics and Irish history but the man I don’t even know if it is a man the accounts talents have no limit listen to this it’s quite long the crisis is not born of a single cause but a web of systemic

Failures and its core is the uncoupling of wages from productivity asset price increases Like Houses continually outstrip wage growth making them unaffordable the chasm between average wages and house prices yawns wider than at any time since the 19th century turning what should be a basic into a luxury and there are graphs and

Statistics to back up these points they go on the hurdles to home ownership are not just about the Staggering price tags the deposits required to secure a mortgage have ballooned becoming insurmountable uh for many they went up by 76% between 2012 and 2022 so there’s old John in idiot’s Corner um that’s a

76% rise in deposits since between 2012 and 2022 meanwhile the construction of of new homes lags woefully behind demand housing completions have dwindled the number of completions in 1966 was double that in 2016 which kind of silences the um immigration obsessives as well doesn’t it amid all this the buy to let Market

Thrives fueled by the Investments of older generations with more substantial savings and income this Dynamic has inflated rental costs as landlords capitalize on the scarcity of affordable homes it’s all here and the result a vicious cycle where the young and less fluent are priced out forced to rent at

Ever increasing costs or return to their parents it’s not just a housing crisis it’s a stark reflection of widening inequality which can only further destabilize the UK and you’ll remember that Jeremy Hunt is so fine and listen not a sort of um militant or a student grant type character I accept you know

And and I enjoy um uh wealth but equally if you are so well upholstered that you forgot you had a bunch of rental Flats which I think Jeremy Hunt did at one point you are clearly a large part of the problem which as Chancellor of the ex Checker you should be dedicating your

Life’s work to solving Andrew’s in Brighton uh what would you like to say Andrew what made you pick up the phone hi there I’m a longterm listener a little bit nervous so with only me I knew you’re going to say that that always

Helps um I so I’m 26 and I also live in Brighton same as John your earlier caller and I’m echoing a lot of what your previous callers have said but I I’ve un a couple years ago and got a job as a graphic designer earning just just

Below the average wage um and in a way I feel quite lucky compared to a lot of my peers because they weren they have not been able to get salary jobs in the field of interest that they they’ve studied in ETC so I feel quite lucky in

That way but I’m I’m nowhere near able to save in any significant way towards well that’s the pins isn’t it so if if if rents were low then the affordability of homes yeah would would would be less of a problem because you could feel that you were chipping away at your deposit

Requirements but if if if houses are homes are really expensive to buy and rents are really high because they’re not controlled in any way you’ve got it’s a double whammy exactly it feels like there you’re sort of you’re one Domino away from everything falling apart because if

Your landlord decides they want you out for whatever reason I live in a flat that’s that’s too small for the the three of us that are in it but it’s just there’s not you know the thought of trying to compete for a new flat in Brighton of all places is not quite as

Bad as London but it isy expensive yes um so the chance of me getting getting enough of a pay increase over the next 5 10 years to even slightly look at Living where I work is just off the cards completely and it’s not really been something I’ve considered since I was an

Adult and and that’s the big difference between your generation and mine so 10 years ago these phone inss would sound very different because I would be speaking to people who can’t quite believe where they found themselves at your age but you were 18 there or 16 10

Years ago so you weren’t really thinking about it and if you were thinking about it you were aware of the economic reality that you would face when you got to the age of 26 27 28 so so the conversation has moved on from people who’ve been ambushed by reality to

People like you who are essentially straight jacketed by it what do you think it does I know I know you can’t compare Andrew in this life to Andrew in the other life but what do you think it does to your relationship with Society with adulthood even think yeah adulthood

Is probably a key word there it’s just sort of the word I use to your producer was infantilization almost CU you can go and visit your parents at Christmas or family friends or your partner’s parents and you you’re in a house that’s have a middle class background yes so when I

Visit family and friends you stay in a house that is big enough for you and has enough drawers and covers to keep your things in and you feel oh this is comfortable but you’re a visitor yes then you go back to your your your flat

Um which is your home but it does feel like at any minute the situations with renting in I know they’re supposed to be addressing no no fault evictions but you know they said they were addressing bonuses for water company Executives about a year ago and they’ve announced

It again today so you’ll forgive me for being a bit cynical about anything this lot announc but you’re describing I wonder what the toll is mentally on that the sort of unmeasured angst if you like of that insecurity that domestic insecurity or always a phone call away from having to sling your

Hook it is anxiety inducing we’ve we’ve we had um we’ve had incorrect noise complaints that we’ve had to argue against um from one specific neighbor and we were the first thing our landord told us was if this happens again you’re evicted you’re out and I’ve lived in

This one flat for four years always paid my rent on time had a really good communication with all the Lords and letting agents and and all my neighbors but because one neighbor made a complaint it was like all of a sudden my entire I and and that line no and and

That is precariousness a precariousness even as you fulfill your side of the social contract in return you expect a more a sense of security some form of security Andrew thank you Alice I’m going to address you directly because I I don’t I don’t mean you um as all the

Brexit voters said to their uh foreign relatives shortly after the referendum result came in I love your show says Alice um Andrew thank you mate take care and have listened to you for years and will keep doing so I’m glad we’ve cleared that up but I’m livid today you

Do what so many commentators do blame private landlords for the ills of the housing crisis um I’m 71 and have invested my life savings in some properties with buy to let mortgages that I let out in order to get some income in my old age I’ve always put the

Well-being of any tenant first and now I have a single mother who can’t pay rent and is still there as we’re trying to find a solution for her that is costing me money every month I could go on and on maybe another time as I can’t talk

Now but I just wanted to point out that we are not always the culprits for the current crisis I and and indeed she adds that her mortgage payments have doubled and she’s only put her rents up by 10% um I Alec not Alice I beg you pardon um

I I wasn’t talking about you I I obviously there are some brilliant landlords but the reality is that a lot of people who we have spoken to today and could continue speaking to for at least another two hours um are paying mortgages for other people for people a

Bit like you but not you no one I said from the start it’s an easy SW I don’t know why I bother actually at it I said at the very start it’s an easy swing to blame landlords and then I took an easy swing at colleagues when I pointed out

That some of them sometimes sound like they’re running the landlord benevolent fund the kind of people who get their violins out when people say they can’t afford school fees but deny the reality of the necessity for food banks for ex it’s one of my favorites food banks load

Of rubbish just need to work harder po what hygiene poverty people can’t afford shampoo it’s 12 p in my local poundland well oh you you can’t afford to pay school fees if they put VAT on them oh my God come here I’ll tickle your tummy

For you poor thing let me mop your fever brow so those kind of characters they can’t get enough of you landlords and I know that lots of you are lovely but the reality is that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who

Can afford to buy a house just not for themselves under the current system so I’m glad we cleared that up Alec Adam’s in brael Adam what would you like to say yeah hi there James I just wanted to give you a call to highlight my current situation so I’m 42 I’ve been private

Renting for 20 years um I did some calculations recently I’ve paid over 200,000 in rent in years right that’s the same as Wayne in in uh in basilon who’s Mate of mine offer has just been tweeting me about it exactly the same age exactly the same son of sum of money

That must sort of stop you in your tracks a bit not only that it’s escalating so over the next 20 years that will probably increase by another 15% so I’ve just looked at my figures and I’ve me and my girlfriend have decided that we can’t afford so she

Lives with her mom and I private rent on my own in a small one bed flat right um what we’ve decided to do and a growing number of people are doing this and I know several people already that are is um we’re going to convert a van and live

In a van because we can’t afford a home in England we not forget about buying we can’t afford to rent in England and you both work uh yeah we both work um I I’m not in a great salary but I work full-time um after my and bills I’m left

With less than2 200 to live off for the month it’s unsustainable isn’t it and and and clearly it is unsustainable for you literally unsustainable this is Van life isn’t it I’ve been reading a bit about van life it’s not it’s not an ideal choice is it but it’s been thrust upon you really

Well we we decided we won’t be able to have children so no family um the people that I do know that are currently living in their Vans say and I’m sure I’m going to feel like this once I’ve completed my transition into a van from this Splat is

You feel like a second class citizen and you get moved on if you if you park somewhere overnight you’ll be moved on and told to get get dirty looks from people so not only can you not afford to live anymore but you’re now starting to

Feel like you’re not even a part of the society and it will lead to depression mental health problems suicide so the impact of um the rental market has such a domino effect I don’t think people realize no I think you’re right and I I I don’t know what turning this oil

Tanker around will look like but um some some form of legislative in intervention is clearly necessary it may be too late for you Adam good luck mate seriously I mean that’s that’s not just a breach of the social contract as you say it’s almost the complete abandonment of it and you

Are keeping your end of the bong listen I don’t mind if people are out of work but I I think in terms of the model of how Society operates if you’ve got two incomes and you’re thinking and and you feel that you have little choice but to

Move into a van then um something is very rotten in the state of brexit Britain isn’t it it is just gone 11:00 you are listening to James O’Brien on LBC a little later in the program we’ll return to the question of online scams from a completely different perspective

Because I very very very very nearly fell victim to one a couple of months ago but up next the NHS and the well what percentage of people are foreign in it James O’Brien on LBC 3 minutes after 11 um a lot of you understandably uh concerned stroke heart

Broken by what is currently happening on the Gaza Strip um where I I mean the the last place to which millions of Palestinian people have been told to move is now under heavy bombardment um with people killed overnight there was a particularly horrible story I don’t know

If you saw it about a little girl in a car um that phoned the authorities a six a little six-year-old girl who phoned the authori from the car in which her relatives had been killed in fact they found a sort of burnt out husk of an ambulance near nearby when they finally

Got to the car and by then it was too late she had she died there as well so I don’t know we may take a hit on it but um but I don’t know what to say I I I I can’t just sit here and describe it for

An hour I can’t point out the uh this disappearance of international support for what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing um I I certainly can’t prioritize this pck in rdale who’s been secretly recorded saying stupid things over the actual killing of human beings in Gaza so um there’ll be none of that on this

Program but I don’t know what to say hit by heavy bombardment overnight where are these people supposed to go I think I think they’re supposed to move back to the areas that have already been bombed are they and and sort of live in holes or live under canvas David Cameron the

Foreign secretary Joe Biden the calls upon Benjamin Netanyahu not to do it were almost unanimous uh but as I said to you last week I mean way way way behind the concern for the dead and the dying the vulnerable and the and the targeted that death toll now at 28340 I worry I worry what he’s done to Israel and it’s standing in the world with future generations and and with current generations and some of the friends some of the people who have been loudest in their support for what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing they’re no friends to

The Jewish people or the Israeli people they’re largely just rancid islamophobes um you should have seen that coming I think I really do but at least 67 killed um according to the Gaza Health Ministry in the latest Israeli attack and of course as anyone who’s ever dealt with war zones will tell you

These numbers are are almost certainly going to increase exponentially when um agencies can actually get in to start going through the destruction going through the rubble 6 minutes after 11 so I’m categorically not ignoring this story I’d hate you to think that I was you know that I wouldn’t I think you

Know we’ve been knocking about together for long enough now but the Israeli PM insists that civilians will be able to leave Rafa even as the bombardment unfolded overnight there’s a sort of almost Orwell inire now to some of the um contributions to public discourse from from Benjamin

Netanyahu RAF has been hit by heavy bombardment overnight people there already living in already living in tents um and and the I don’t know that the horror of what’s going to happen next seemingly ignored by Western politicians who were far too quick to offer full-throated support in the first

Instance uh 7 after 11: is the time so we will keep an eye on that story and I will bring you reports as and when they um appear but you’re looking at warnings of of of you know catastrophic consequences famine and and the rest of

It um and I don’t know Sor I don’t know what to say there you go that’s me being honest with you 7 minutes after 11 is the time uh call it what it is James it’s an ethnic cleansing I’ve been calling an ethnic cleansing for for

Weeks I can’t see any other to describe it um I I I just can’t you know that’s pretty much what Benjamin Netanyahu said he wanted to achieve when he was a young man giving an interview to Max Hastings who went on to be editor of the Daily

Telegraph and was writing a biography of netanyahu’s brother so I I don’t know is H is the short answer to that question uh 8 minutes after 11 is the time we’ll talk about something rather closer to home but but um particularly pertinent I think to the current CL time it this is

And you just heard it in Thomas’s News Bulletin nearly a third of nurses and more than a third of doctors in the NHS are from overseas of all the um uh and yes of course I want a ceasefire and I want a ceasefire now as I think there

Some of the politicians that have been a little bit lateer in arriving at that conclusion but the only politicians who matter are the ones that are in power the ones that are in power I uh I I remember the brexit debate probably a little bit more clearly than

Some people do because I was neck deep in it but I really only became James o brexit afterwards when I felt that nobody was really holding the promises to account do you remember I it was actually extraordinary I think that Robbie Gibb who would shortly go and

Work for Theresa May at dowy Street before coming back to the BBC as an executive board member uh I think that he sent out an instruction that it brex it was over and done with so it had ceased to be newsworthy I think it was

Him forgive me if I’m wrong um it ceased to be newsworthy as it were because it was over and done with and I remember thinking at the time hang on a minute that’s that’s good news for the Liars isn’t it if IID promised you your food would be cheaper or the immigration was

Going to come crashing down if you had been successfully persuaded that that was something that you wanted um the idea that the BBC of all places was going to stop actually reporting on the reality of brexit while all of the print media would still be cheerleading and

Lying about it up until the point I predicted this almost to the letter cheerleading and lying about brexit up until the point where it started claiming that there was a good brexit but it goes to a different school I I forget precisely when the pivot was but

I told you it would happen and it happened it’s brilliant it’s brilliant shut up ronas drink those remainer tears oh it’s so good I’m so happy it’s the best thing we’ve ever done M suck on that lovely sovereignty it’s m delicious uh and then suddenly it was all no it’s

All gone horribly wrong but it’s not our fault it’s all the fault of other people probably remainers the reason my brexit is rubbish it’s all the fault of the people who explained in forensic detail why it was going to be rubbish so that happened right but one of the things that I found

Most upsetting is the word that I’d use because I I heard these words coming from the mouths of people that I had once considered friends possibly certainly colleagues um why can’t we train our own I never understood that I never understood that why can’t we train our

Own um whether you were talking about Lorry drivers or a consultant surgeons why can’t we train our own there’s one person in particular who used to say that all the time they used to work here and I used to think well what happens when you go

To a hospital or or or when you go to the doctors and it’s somebody who wasn’t born here looking after your kids do you actually have a sense of resentment do you have do you sit there thinking oh I wish you were British I just I I I I just couldn’t

Quite conceive of that level of bigotry I know how naive I sound why can’t we train our own and yet oddly that is a question that I am interested in the answer to as I look at the figures today so for the avoidance of doubt I am just grateful

The only word I have to describe my attitude to the Third of nurses and over a third of doctors in the NHS who are from overseas the only words I have for you are thank you thank God you’re here thank you thank you thank you and thank

You again and I can only imagine why or how you feel when you turn on your radio or your television to hear somebody saying why can’t we train our own it’s such a vile vile position to adopt in in the context of that’s why we need to

Leave the European Union to simp simply to be saying we need to leave the European Union because there are too many French pediatricians there are too many polish nurses and that question why can’t we train our own became very uh very loud didn’t it people like farage predictably

Enough and the rest of them banging on about it all the time but but but there is actually a mystery here for me because being a doctor certainly being a doctor is or was a very desirable job quite a lot of my mates from school became

Doctors uh from both of my schools one of the lovely things about Facebook is is reestablishing contact with people that you haven’t heard from for years and I mention that because I want to highlight the desirability of the job itself you know these are these are well educated privately educated men who

Wanted to be doctors from pretty much the moment that they selected their a levels and again that backdrop of of being a doctor I you can still in some towns you can tell where the doctor lived my house is is is a doctor’s old house it did you know these were these

Were the these were the sort of what’s the word I’m looking for they were the prestige properties in in a town W the doctor you’re the local doctor and yet such is the current state of the system that we have to beg borrow and steal doctors and nurses

From other countries and and I just don’t know why 0345 60609 73 is the number that you need so I just want to know why why has becoming a doctor or a nurse lost its appeal for British born people and I stress again this conversation has been conducted

From a position of abject gratitude to the people who come here from overseas to work in the NHS but I I am intrigued by the question of why the job has become so much less attractive over the last 30 or 40 years compared to some of the answers will be obvious some

Hopefully less so but what has happened 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need and as a side order this question is inspired by Colin who’s been in touch to say my work colleague a few years back said the reason I voted for brexit was because when was lying in hospital

Being treated all of the staff were foreign his then severe cancer is now in remission thanks to the care he received so as a side order what happens when your racist relative goes to hospital and discovers the absolute essential nature of high levels of immigration what actually

Happens do they come out like Cole’s mate complaining about the people that are literally keeping them alive or do they have some sort of changing their attitude to immigration in general or do they sign up for that wonderful post brexit refrain that we heard on the

Program count oh I don’t I didn’t mean you cuz Collins mate really did mean you it was a French doctor wasn’t it do you remember a female French doctor the first day after the referendum result came in who rang Us in tears she’d already endured some abuse I think from

Patients I she was a psychiatrist if memory serves and she’d already decided to leave the country it’s one of those very early calls that made me see some of the writing that was on the wall but but why why is it not an attractive job for British people anymore or why is it

A hard job to get into doctors in particular but nurses as well and the second question is what happens when your racist relative goes to hospital and discovers just how important high levels of immigration in this country are to keeping the NHS afloat that is a third of doctors and nurses onethird of

Doctors and nurses 33.3 recurring percent who are routinely and regularly demonized maligned and insulted by some of the loudest voices in British politics and British media it’s extraordinary isn’t it absolutely extraordinary but what what is the reason behind it why do we need so many NHS workers so many doctors

And nurses from overseas 0345 6060 973 is the number you need and I I I genuine inspired by Collins mate here a genuine question of what happens when somebody who is maybe not racist okay let’s be a bit Kinder someone who is persuaded that immigration is a massive

Problem what happens when they go to hospital 0345 60609 73 hit the numbers now you will get through James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC and of course what’s it like if you are a doctor or a nurse and you are from overseas can you tell when you’ve got a

Patient like Collins mate someone who’s got a problem with the fact that you’re foreign can you I mean sometimes presumably people are just racist your face but can you tell what’s that like to be dedicated to providing people with health care who have got a problem with

You because you weren’t born here God we’ve created some problems haven’t we in this country by letting liars and charlatans get their hands almost get their sticky little fingers on our steering wheels 03456 6973 is the uh is the number that you need um here here we go AIDS in tford

He’s a bit a bit thick have you visited a local hospital or doctor’s surgery lately the argument that immigration is keeping our nsh running is false my local doctor surgery was completely full with immigrant patients last Thursday I suppose you don’t see this due to using private doctors and hospitals um I don’t

Know where to start with that aid but we’re talking about a third of staff in the NHS not the nsh mate the NHS being from overseas so what you need to ask yourself is what would happen if they weren’t there and and I mean if if it’s

So important to you um I don’t have private doctors or private hospitals perhaps I should you know that way I wouldn’t bump into scumbags like you when I pop into my local GP surgery so I suppose you should be on commission possibly don’t don’t go don’t use the

NHS because you might bump into racists like Aid there you go that would be quite a good slogan and then of course it would free up places for other people as well to uh get the appointment that I currently have as a as a proud and

Grateful user of the NHS 22 after 11 is the time Emma is in Ashfield Emma what would you like to say hi James hello um this actually happened over Christmas to a family member of mine um my brexit VOC voting Uncle um unfortunately got leukemia just before Christmas and so

Spent a lot of time and when I went to visit him he said it’s really opened his eyes to immigration and the NHS and he’s done a 180 really he he wants to get the Tories out after the election he um he said he spent he had

So much going chatting to them all about their nationalities and how they celebrate Christmas traditionally and it was so just literally clocking because I mean you know quite if you’re dealing with doctors and nurses from a patient point of view it becomes clear I I’d have thought quite quickly if people

Are from overseas and and so just curiosity and human interest broke down barriers that had been put up by years of presumably political and media brainwashing absolutely Ian we’ve had many discussions with definely um different politically um but where you failed where you failed these doctors and nurses succeeded and young young

Doctors and nurses as well there were all when I went to visiting there were all younger um yeah foreign nurses and doctors and it really enjoyed spending time and chatting with them so I just only ask that question as an afterthought but what a fascinating insight and how is he is his leukemia

Under control is he is yeah absolutely brilliant and it honestly he was literally diagnosed on the Tuesday morning and he was receiving treatment Tuesday afternoon in hospital and listen nhs’s got a whole heap of problems at the moment largely as a consequence of very deliberate political policies pursued

Over the last 14 years but the minute we lose our sense of gratitude towards the people who are keeping it aoat wherever they come from because of course two-thirds will be British born but a third Aunt um I I can see I mean I don’t know what the alternative would be for

Emma’s Uncle be Collins mate goes to hospital with cancer and and decides he’s going to vote brexit cuz so many of the doctors are foreign that’s just extraordinary to me but there we go 24 after 11 thank you Emma Christopher’s in walam stone Christopher what would you

Like to say yeah so I’ve been working as a healthcare assistant now for 10 years and I’ve just started my training as a student nurse associate and I can tell you succinctly why no one’s joining the NHS um well if you start training as a nurse associate the first thing that

Told us in University was no you can’t join any sports teams and you need to be at the back and cord of the hospital whenever they need you for placement right uh then they turned around and said um the 5,000 Grand learning support fund is not you’re not entitled to

Because nurse Associates are not on the list yes and you can put that in for another couple of other professions but the Tories they keep leaving that out when they talk about that this is the burer as it as it was yes yes the whatever they I think they called it the

Learning support fund now but yes that 5,000 is but it’s not for there’s a few professions in the NHS they’re not applicable we’re one of them right um and then then you get the when you actually get take take your time mate seriously you’ve got all the time in the

World I want to hear about what’s going on in your world don’t be nervous and and and don’t just take your time seriously awesome so when you get onto the ward uh you’ll often find yourself short staffed even with the large numbers of um yes uh foreign staff that

We’ve taken on recently uh they won’t take on agency rates because they haven’t got the budget they’re often running I think our trust we was running a 70% overspend on agency staff holy moly it wasn’t the foreign patients so you know um as Union RS we

Often have to ask can we afford to pay our staff oh yes we can um so when you get um when the job is the job is St the job is close to unbearable then for you cuz you you you I mean yeah exactly exactly why you f why are you

Still there uh it’s just fits in with the training at the moment I’m going to be honest when I complete my degree my plan is to go to Australia or America and that is a a common and and tell me a little bit about the people that have come here

That you work with from overseas because they are yes they’re putting up with conditions that you’re describing as close to unbearable oh they are they are um so I’m fortunate well not unfortunately I mean our staff are great but they come over from the Philippines and India yes

I don’t know about India but I can tell you the average wage in the Philippines about 250 us a month it is did you pick on the two most common non-uk nationalities actually Indian uh doctors and nurses account for 10.1% of of all nurses and health visitors followed by

Filipinos at 7.7% so those are the two nationalities actually yes but those are most of the nationalities of the our trust as well so but um like I say they they’re great they got good clinical knowledge it’s all well and good yes we we tell them that you’re going to earn 5

To six times higher than what you’re currently earning right we don’t tell them the small little details like the average rate in London yeah and the cost of living so they come here a little bit hypnotized by the figure on the job offer without having a full and clear so

How dis I usion to people get and how quickly oh very quickly very quickly and they talk to you about it they say how do you how do you how how am I supposed to survive how can I look after my family if they’re allowed to have their

Family here of course some of them aren’t well yes exactly and with the Filipino nurses um again they actually set the US syllabus right so when they get their visas over here it doesn’t take long if they haven’t got family commitments or you know if they before they hit the

Road as well before they get their license state licenses whatever they want because they’ve set the US exams they’ve already set C they’ve got all the hours we haven’t got so do we know what the turnover is like just anecdotally on your ward in your hospital do we know what the turnover of

Staff is like we even as people come here from elsewhere before they head off somewhere else it was a major it was a major problem because I’m also a union rep it was a major problem with the board so really you know something that yeah CH cuz that’s the mystery for me that

That I mean you’ve solved some of you’ve answered some of the problems but the mystery would be be why are people putting up with a situation or with conditions that British born people are being turned off by it and you find you’ll struggle to find anyone explaining this as articulately as

Christopher but but but there it is and then you’re left with that thing that I mean you resist it for a while because it seems a little bit lazy or at least very very straightforward too straightforward too simplistic perhaps to think that this is being deliberately done but um the science writer Marcus

Chan has tweeted me this morning simply saying you’re more likely to be treated by an immigrant in R NHS than you are to be behind one in a queue the reason there are 7.6 million people on waiting lists and people are being treated on trolley and in corridors and you can’t

See a GP is because the Tories have deliberately run down your NHS um and I I find it now impossible to resist that conclusion and of course I don’t know whether they’re appealing to our friend in tford who thinks that everybody who criticizes the Tories are

Over the treatment of the NHS must be doing so from a private Hospital Ward I I don’t know how that works intellectually but you you you know that they’re they’re betting on or banking on people having a problem with apparently foreign faces in the waiting room even

As they have to rely upon apparently foreign faces in the treatment room which just shows how mad everything is which is where the other question this hour comes in is is what happens when your anti-immigration let’s just say rather than racist your anti-immigration relative go the hospital and realizes

That without high levels of immigration um they probably wouldn’t be operating at all half past 11 is the time Thomas wats is here now with your headlines James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC 34 minutes after 11 is the time I was one of the

Grimmest elements for me at least on a personal level of the brexit conversation is that why why can’t we train our own because the message that sends to foreign doctors and nurses is that you are are a a kind of inferior option whereas I’ve never met anyone um well it’s not true of

Course do it in the job don’t I but I can’t quite get my head around anyone turning up at the hospital and being cross about the um country of origin of the person treating them if the quality of the treatment is high and good but but there is a question about why

British born people aren’t going into the NHS in anything like the numbers that they used to Tracy and comentry knits it to the conversation we had in the last hour when she writes it’s probably a massive generalization James but if public sector jobs are hugely difficult as well as underpaid as they

Often are nowadays what is the attraction to these public sector jobs for people already resident in the UK add in pension erosion um the lack of ability to buy a home and ask yourself who wants or can afford to be a nurse or a teacher and putting key workers in the

Same category conversation in the last hour about not being able to buy a home so if Christopher is correct and I’ve got no reason to doubt him you are tempting people here from countries like India and the Philippines because on paper the wage looks enormous

And if you are sending it all home then it will have a measurable difference upon your family back there but when you factor in the cost of living here there probably not a great deal to send home so I think the next bit of uh research

I’d be Keen to see would be the would be the churn level the people tempted here on these special visas you know the exemptions that had to be brought in to Place freedom of movement uh who then actually get a flavor of the terms and conditions in the NHS and find

Themselves thinking yeah maybe not after all 11:35 is the time Sarah’s in battle Sarah what would you like to say hi Jane hello um I’m I’ve a doctor of 20 years I’ve been a GP partner fulltime for 16 years right however I’m no longer practicing um August 2022 I suddenly

Snapped and broke and walked out of my clinic and and never walked back really um yeah well like as I mean almost in a I mean actually literally you did that you just said that’s it I can’t do this cck I’m so sorry yeah um it’s it was it was a bit

Of a shock to to me too but when you work 60 hours a week and you give absolutely everything but you feel like you’re achieving nothing yeah um when you feel worthless and you feel that you can’t do your job properly and safely and and look after the patients in the

Way that you were trained to do um I think and I know I’m not the only doctor or nurse who who out there who who feels that but I became so overwhelmed by the just the sheer amount of work yes that was always in front of me and felt like I was going

Around in circles and giving and giving and getting nothing back and realizing that my sacrifices weren’t were pointless I’d missed so many Christmases school plays parents evenings um tucking my children into bed and I sudden was wondering what it was all for well what was it for what does what does forgive me

What what does getting something back look like what what what are you what was missing do you mean the Gratitude of patients or do you mean the recognition from above as it were I don’t mean God I mean I mean like the government or something well yes

Unfortunately it is it’s from it was from all sectors media politicians patients other colleagues in and other parts of medicine um we especially general practice I think is has received an awful lot of flack especially through Co the the negative media that we received of course some people to avoid burnout some

People will be going part-time and then they can turn their radio on in the morning and and and get a kicking for that as well can’t they well this is again the misunderstanding of what a part-time GP is actually achieve working um part-time GPS probably work 30 40

Hours um but just by kind of that our days tend to be 12 14 hour days yes I I think the problem in this country is is a fundamental misund understanding of actually what the doctor’s job entail especially GPS the the risk the responsibility especially GP Partners

The way that we actually are running effectively a business as well having to keep that afloat um you know a GP partner are independent contractors we we have unlimited liability we what when when there are pay Rises that is literally coming out of our pocket so financially at the moment general

Practice is almost unviable right and many practices are are closing which is obviously as a lot of us creates guilt because we are now putting extra work on our other colleagues because um they then have to mop up the excess patients I mean when I left my practice I had

3,000 patients registered under me personally and wow that’s yes what would be what would be the optimal number do you think if that’s not a silly question optimal optimal number is about 1500 to 1,800 per GP um a fulltime GP so this we have a stark shortage we’re probably 5,000

6,000 GP short in this country and that problem is going to get bigger because the and reality you describe is unbearable that they are training more GPS and and in fact there are are more GPS trained but they’re not staying because they can see what we’re facing

Um so some will go some will hang hang up their stethoscope like you have done I sense permanently and others will will head abroad yes no chance of you going back in the current climate I don’t think um I’m finding ways to I’m currently um working on a rough sleeping

Initiative in my county and may be working as the doctor for that that’s discussion um for me to find a way to to use my skills in a different um setting but I’m not keen I’m I’m I would be scared to go back into what I was the

Level I was working before because I would just be angry the whole time sorry to hear that but not not surprised from from the way you’ve described it what and I think you’ve answered the question in part but why I mean this would filter down then to trade needs they’d very quickly

Realize they don’t want to be doing this because I’m looking at why we rely so heavily upon foreign born doctors and nurses and they bring a great perspective and great skill set to to the country and again I think people don’t realize that we we very much value

Our um our foreign colleagues because they they bring a whole different perspective to things and um and very much enrich our our Workforce and and they are to be applauded and and but they’re not I mean this is what Christopher’s call was so interesting for wasn’t it is that they’re going to

Be pretty disillusioned pretty quickly as well especially if they’ve been LED here under false pret Peter INF finally says I’ve been speaking to two Indian nurses who came here on the promise of of Skyhigh wages but very quickly regretted their decision due to Skyhigh rent payments I think I mean it’s the

Same for all the public sector workers and why the junior doctors who are being considered you know um again being maligned they are V they really really care care about the profession and want to um do the right thing but you a person has to be recognize for their

Worth they have to be um you have to recognize the risk and responsibility and I think that and the training and the finances it goes behind our training and the length of our training and it is you know you have to but and this applies to anyone in the

Public sector you have to be paid your worse and and the Goodwill runs out if if that worth and value is not recognized and it is an investment and I think currently policies are very shortsighted and and a false economy well and and you remind me of that Oscar

Wild I think it was osar wildline about knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing because you you you know the model as it is you pay people as little as you can get away with which which seems to have infested the NHS whereas in fact the social value of what

You do should translate into into Financial value but it was interesting that you spoke Sarah at least as much about a sense of ingratitude or you actually use the word worthless um because they’re not Financial so so it’s only part of the picture isn’t it the pay the other part

Of it is the value that society places on people like you has she gone have we have we lost her no probably bought no you’re here sorry what happened now yeah Sor I think I know the rection in my area is very good I I think the respect for the

Profession is has very much died I spent most of my time trying not to tell people that I was a doctor when I’d be asked what I did the daily mail again it’s the Daily Mail and the M do press and and and the sense that you’re all

Swinging the lead or you’re all living in Barbados or you’re all phoning it in or you’re all taking time off and taking the Mickey and then of course if you dare to take industrial action as the junior doctors have done the kick ings um increase exponentially and and listen

There’s no earthly way that it doesn’t translate into behavior in the surgery you turn your radio on or you open your newspaper and someone is speaking contemptuously about doctors or teachers then like night following day the teacher will be disrespected in the classroom by children but mostly of

Course outside the classroom by parents and the doctor will be disrespected in the surgery by patients I mean it is so obviously true that one wonders quite what the kind of people who routinely engage in the demonized a of doctors in this case or teachers in others what

Wers what passes for brains between their ears sometimes Sarah thank you what a sad story I got that image of you almost like Michael Douglas in that film you’re just not going to take it I’m just that’s it I’m out I’m walking out I’m walking out the

Door but I’m glad you did because goodness knows what what what would have happened to you if you stayed in that unbearable environment it’s 11:45 James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC it’s 1148 my partner and I I’m reading this I’d be a

Bit of a shock to your system if it was actually me speak my partner and I both trained as doctors we’re both British born and then we left after we qualified uh we don’t work in the NHS decision was huge and heartbreaking but it felt like

The only one we could take in all honesty I’ll never forgive the Tories for taking away my lifelong dream to work as a doctor um and you’re right Rob that film I was thinking of was falling down starring starring Michael Douglas um in a moment Henry Riley will join us

With a an interesting story about the amount of uh public sector contracts or the amount of government contracts uh that are going to a company of particular interest given the identity of its owners I wonder if you can uh can you solve that riddle yet can you

Imagine what the company is that well I don’t want to spoil the surprise Henry will be gutted we’ll do that shortly first though jod is in Manchester um is that you did I just read your text yes that’s that’s a spooky coincidence hi I just saw your name so

You you you signed your text Joe and since you sent the text you rang in yes fantastic so I I text and then I I’m my first time call called before but this is something that I feel really passionate about you’re very welcome thank you so thank you for having me you

Know on some shows they phone the text us because the phones don’t ring but but I just want to make it absolutely clear that doesn’t happen on this show so I just got a bit thrown by the fact that you called in after you texted carry on jie

Yes so um as I say in the text both my partner and I um trained at Medical School we’ve done the fiveyear degree um and then completing that both decided that working in the NHS just wasn’t really a viable option why why what I mean give me the sort of highlights of

That decision as it were so kind of over the last probably year and a half of medical school um we started to feel that actually this might not be um the career that we thought it was um the treatment of doctors is just so poor um

In the NHS at the moment and the whole the whole situation just became so difficult um to be around you know we had doctors constantly telling us why you why are you doing this run while you can it’s too late for me but but you can

Still get out I do that with journalists actually yeah but it’s a bit more serious when doctors are doing it to to to the next generation of doctors yeah I think that that was really difficult and obviously in medical school you’re trained to such a high standard to give this fantastic

Level of care but due to resources and Staffing and so you wouldn’t be able to do the job that you wanted to do even if you took the job that you wanted to take that was absolutely that was how it felt and it felt like you’re having to give

Some po care um and obviously I’ve only trained in one trust I can’t speak for the entire of the UK but certainly doctors were not treated well not well respected we put in our applications for our rotations and there was no guarantee that my partner and myself would get

Married this year would even be able to live in the same city um looking at the wage we didn’t think we’d be able to really afford rent on our own so um you know would we have to move deal back to the social contract that we spoke about

In the last hour can I ask what you’re doing instead or would that be nosy of me you can ask um so I’m now working um in a company uh I work more on a research side of thing okay um so still kind of within the the medical um you

Know medical world but not as a doctor no and and that that is probably that’s it then can’t see you can’t see yourself going back into the NHS I don’t think so I mean we we could do there are ways you can get into it years later but it’s I I

Can’t see myself doing it I don’t think my mental health would have survived well do you know I I think the big lesson of this hour well there’s several actually but um one of them in particular will be that notion of burnout listening to Sarah describe literally Downing tools and walking out

Of the surgery mid in the middle of the day and and the mental health the toll it takes to be undervalued and overworked um and these are not jobs where being undervalued and overworked can be easily accommodated so I I think when we read about doctors or hear about

Doctors working quotes part-time End quotes which will be 30 to 40 hours a week as opposed to 50 to 60 we’d all do well to be a little bit more sympathetic um I think Jody thank you it is 11:53 uh Denise and Ashford in Middle sex straight into idiots corner for Denise

Let’s hope that traine doctor couple paid back the taxes used to train them um I I don’t know if you’re aware of how much debt students go into these days Denise but um I I just stay away from scissors hey for the rest of today Henry Riley is here with an exclusive

Scoop yes thank you James very good morning so this is regarding to solve your riddle from earlier on this is regarding infosis the Tech know that why does that ring a bell rishy sunak wife AATA mty has a share in that particular her dad’s company her dad founded it in

1981 yes and she has a 0.91% share which as I’ll come on to later is not as small as it seems it’s still pretty lucrative um but we’ve we can reveal that infosis received a near 50% increase in public sector invoices in 2023 that was rishy Sak’s First full

Year as prime minister in fact it was the best ever year for the firm in the public sector so public sector invoices essentially a sort of one-off work it’s a more accurate U measurer than contracts because the money’s paid up front with contracts as you know James

They can go on over a few years they’re not just it’s not committed funds it’s funds that are actually uh being paid and we’ve been working with tussle the data provider who analyz a lot of these figures and it shows that infosis were paid £7 million in public sector

Invoices last year for context that’s up from 4.7 million in 2022 so in total it was just over 7 million it includes over a quarter of a million pound from the government property agency a similar amounts from the Care Quality commission and the London burough of Brent for example

Spent £2 million in invoices with infosis sums being spent mostly on consultant fees and information communication technology what is also interesting is in addition to many of these wins the company’s also won spots on a number of Frameworks in recent years now that doesn’t give you a

Guarantee of work but as tussle point out it can give you the edge in winning contracts in the future so two of those James for example there’s the NHS shared Business Services 250 million pound intelligence automation framework oh yes Infosys were one of 28 companies to gain

A spot on that they also won a spot on a563 million pound contract from the FCA that is a digital services framework agreement infosis was one of the companies appointed last year to that particular board speaking with me earlier Labour Jonathan Ashworth said that taxpayers deserve answers taxpayers

Will want to have serious questions answered as to how this firm with its close links to rishy sunak directly appears to be cashing in it’s high time we had a full explanation as to all the circumstances as to how this firm has been awarded these lucrative contracts

This is about taxpayers money and when we’ve seen a government throw taxpayers money down the drain it’s right that taxpayers are demanding answers oh you can demand answers and indeed we do but it doesn’t necessarily mean that this is bad value for money for for the taxpayer

That the other problem is that some of that money will make its way into the prime minister’s wife’s bank account yes and I look I think the issue is James you’re right there’s no sense of impropriety here or no sort of no certainly from these figures however it

Is that close link with aat mty and that constant um talk that with regards to rushy sunak involvement so I mean just to give you some examples James between 2012 and 20123 infosis has been awarded government contracts worth over1 million now AATA Mercy’s share of 91% was valued at around 481 million in

2023 so it’s a significant much £483 million gosh in 2023 she received dividends of13 million in the last Financial year as well as we referen her father co-founded it in 1981 important to point out the cabinet office have responded to our story they’ve said all contracts are awarded following an open

And fair process and decisions are rigorously scrutinized ministers do not take part in the evaluation or selection of winning biders they also point out out that ministers do declare interests and that there are steps taken to ensure there are no conflicts of interest but certainly eyebrows being raised by the

Labor party yes an interesting story actually and and you’d have thought there’d be some sort of requirement not to have any family interests profiting from public contracts from Public Safety contracts I don’t think that’s unreasonable we could be missing something I suppose but it doesn’t seem

Unreasonable to me to just say well I I’ll part my shareholding for the duration of your Premiership or or or or or you know not not not bid for government contracts while you’re prime minister well and as you pointed out James there is there’s no sense of SAS here however given that

Rishy sunak did make clear that he wanted to distance himself from the previous SAS I think there’s certainly an argument to be made of of recusing yourself from that well working with that particular company in the in the public sector yes thank you Henry Henry Riley there with a a little exclusive

From um from his own his own digging there you go Johnny norch you’ll like this Henry Henry Riley is the best add to your show since mystery hour wow goodness me that’s J about that e let me see your phone have you been sending messages pretending to be Johnny noris

He’s paid about as much as the government pay infosis from my bank account that’s lovely uh and I agree actually well maybe I wouldn’t go that far but certainly an certainly an augmentation to the to the overall entertainment that’s it I think for this hour thank you Henry Riley you are

Listening to James O’Brien on LBC um I I haven’t got to the bottom of that question of the the what happens I thought Emma’s call up first this hour with the brexit voting Uncle goes into hospital with leukemia and completely changes his politics overnight when he realizes how heavily the NHS relies upon

Foreign workers relies upon um foreign born do overseas born doctors and nurses but the question of why more people who were born here don’t want to go into it has been comprehensively answered it’s coming up to 12 um I I like this story about scams and frauds because I now

Know how easy it is to be ripped off online because it so nearly happened to well I’ll tell you that so nearly happened to me James O’Brien on LBC it is 3 minutes after 12 and you’re listening to James O’Brien on LBC um we’ve got quite a lot to get through

This hour so because I want to bring you up to date with what is going on in Gaza David Cameron there sounding stronger than he has thus far with regard to Benjamin net and who’s um I mean increasingly obvious determination to inflict humanitarian catastrophe continuing humanitarian catastrophe upon

The Palestinian people I saw the Diplomatic correspondent of the Washington Post a few hours ago reporting that Joe Biden was edging ever closer to um a breach with netan who who in his words is no longer seen as a productive partner who can be influenced in private um and this labor candidate

In Rochdale focusing attention on once again on the question of anti-Semitism and um why it is an accusation level that anybody who ever criticizes Israel you need to be clear about what is and what is not based upon the ethnicity or religion of the person that you’re criticizing so when I

Condemn Benjamin Netanyahu for what he is doing in Gaza I would be doing so if he was a Hindu a Muslim a Jew a Christian a zoroastrian a Scientologist a Buddhist um or even a um pastafarian and I’m absolutely 100% clear about that I don’t know whether this candidate in

Rochdale would have um suggested that the Israeli government had some form of complicity in the terror attack by Hamas on October the 7th I don’t know if he would have made those comments if Benjamin Netanyahu had been a Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian a Catholic a

Protestant a Methodist a Baptist an Evangelical uh Harry Krishna zoroastrian a scient I don’t know only he knows is that um unless you do know that he definitely wouldn’t have made such comments unless um except about a Jewish man then you can’t really I don’t think accuse him of anti-Semitism any more

Than you can accuse one of the most reliably Bonkers columnists in the Daily Telegraph chat called Tim Stanley is it um who who writes today that many people in Israel many voters in Israel uh believe that uh Netanyahu is to blame for the security lapses that led to

October the 7th um adding though they are united in a horen of Hamas nowhere in the ethical debate about what to do um is more intense than in Israel itself something that an awful lot of commentators in the right of the UK media seem to to completely Miss so I I

Want to catch up with the situation there and I also want to speak to fergal shaky about the um uh proposals and I’ll tell you why I want to check in with fergal these proposals to clamp down on bonuses being paid to water compan bosses who are pumping shocking amounts

Of sewage into our waterways I’ve just got a sense of deja vu and I want to check with ferle that I’m not going mad on that so there’s a lot to get through this hour which is why I would urge you to ring in sooner than rather rather

Than later on the next subject that I’m about to share with you I like this national campaign against fraud people need help protecting themselves now I I I I don’t know whether you think this is arrogant of me or whether you think this is unfair of me or whether I’m actually

Describing the situation that you are currently in but I didn’t used to have that much sympathy for people who’d been ripped off on the grounds that if something’s too good to be true it probably is too good to be true or how hard can it really be to understand that

Your bank is never going to phone you up and um urge you to transfer all your funds into the account of a of a of a mysterious Middle Eastern potentate or whatever it may be so so I was not unsympathetic but I was certainly a little skeptical about how big a problem

It was for the broader population and then I started learning about the lengths that these people go to and the tricks and the technology that they deploy and and you realize that as with quite a lot of crime if they put the same levels of effort and creativity

Into lawful Pursuits they could be millionaires by the end of the month but the real Clincher for me was for coming perilously close to being scammed myself in the most ridiculous of circumstances so what I want you to tell me about ideally are scams that other

People might not know about all right so some of them are fairly well established and fairly well known but ones that other people might not know about and don’t be shy because I’m going to tell you what happened to me and there’ll be someone listening going go I can’t

Believe James thinks that is uh I can’t believe James thinks that’s a new one everyone knows that one I can’t believe he nearly fell for it but I did so what happened was this uh as I have got older I have found myself much to my family’s

Chag I found myself ordering quite a lot of clothes off Facebook adverts now the great thing about this is that the algorithm and I know it’s responsible for you know Donald Trump and brexit and all that kind of thing but it does have there are silver linings it it the

Algorithm really gets my sense of my particular sense of style so I quite often now get sent adverts for precisely the sort of clobber that is going to tickle my fancy because it knows what I’ve looked at in the past you see so I’m quite I’m quite partial to knitwear

I’m turning into Alan Partridge aren’t I I’m quite partial to nice knitwear Posh poshish knitwear poshish it’s not even a word is it poshish knitware I’m quite partial to knitwear and it also knows my trainer uh tastes so if new balanc trainers release a particularly fetching

New uh shoe I it will pop up on my Facebook Within hours have been launched and I could just click away on it and get on it so and also I’ve started buying quite Posh socks I checked with the producer about whether I should tell you how much I’m spending on socks at

The moment for a pair of socks my whole life has been spent searching for the perfect sock and I’ve gone through quite a long period of buying a lot of socks from TK Max and almost treating them as disposable socks but that’s not very good for the environment um so socks now

I’m getting sent some lovely stuff for socks Facebook’s great you keep keep all your profiles private so you’re never going to get bombarded by Dominic Cummings or anything like that and and you just get this excellent uh shopping based algorithm and so it was that I found

Myself looking at the what I believed to be the website for a well-known saval row Taylor it was hackit hackit is it’s it’s it’s a you know the the label hackit I’ve got a nice coat from hackit so I thought oh they must I must I

Didn’t buy it online but I might have filled in a 10% discount so they know I like hacket stuff right and so I went to the I just saw this website it said we’ve got an end of um I’ve got an end of end of season so

We got a massive clearance sale hack it and now this happened about a month after I had stumbled across genuinely massive discounts on a another Sav rot tailer that that was um I think had gone under and they were selling off the the stock that was left over and I checked

In its Posh and they were by Royal appointment and I think the jumper I’ve got on now is one of them and it was really nice gear don’t act me about my jumper if you’re watching this on YouTube I like it and and so I I had I

Thought this is all perfectly normal and the discounts were extraordinary and this is where I would have thought too good to be true but remember a month previously I’d secured some fairly special discounts on some rather lovely knitwear so I went through this this website this hackit

Website and I I I was ordering everything I ordered about probably several hundred if not ,000 worth of gear I probably would have moderated my order a little bit later in the process when I’d seen but we’re talking like you’re were paying 20% of cost like 80%

Discounts right and I and and I was thought Mrs O’Brien’s probably going to tell me off but when she sees how much clobber arrives she’s going to say years that’s two years worth of shopping you’ve done in one in one box and I got to the payment page you know

When you get to the end of it even if you’re just ordering food you get to that final confirm payment page and if I’d been a bit distracted you know if or or if if I’d been watching telly with a laptop on my lap or possibly if I’d had

A drink and I just wasn’t fully firing on all cylinders I don’t think I would have noticed that the account into which I was about to pay £1,000 was a PayPal account and I just smelled her R and I think it was even someone’s name on a PayPal account and I just thought

There’s no way that hackit would have a PayPal account with someone’s name on it just as that final click and then having smelt a rat I went to look at the official hackit website which was identical to the one that I’d been looking at but without the discounts so

The one I’d looked at they’d slightly changed the web address do you see what I mean so it’s like one character or something like that now something like that I presume is only up and running for for a fairly short period of time before it gets spotted and closed down

But before it gets spotted and closed down old muggins here could have given them £1,000 of my hard eared and it was so so easy to do and so cleverly targeted because of my own shopping habits and I’m delighted man that you find it so funny that I think I’ve got

Um she says thank you James for giving me a lovely giggle at the thought of you having a style especially in knitwear very fondly yours man and glastenbury well I think that’s a little bit unnecessary I have a very particular sense of style man as as you can tell by

Watching my Clips or or catching the show on YouTube a very particular um sense of style and and just to be clear this would have been about two years worth of shopping for me I’m not in the habit of dropping ,000 um but it would I’d have got like

Eight pairs of trousers two jackets 10 shirts it would have been like literally or all the clothes I needed for two or three years and just in that final moment in that final moment I got the uh I got the um I got the sense of

Fishiness and I and I and I pulled out of the deal but the website looked exactly the same the clobber was exactly the same the only thing that was different was the discount and then of course the pay pay PayPal thing it is coming up to quarter past 12 so if it

Can happen to me it can happen to anyone what happened to you and and ideally something that most of us might not know about something that so two things I want you can’t quite believe like me you’re cocky enough to think you’d see through any scam but you didn’t so

You’re you’re stunned that it happened to you 0345 60 6973 and or it’s something that you realistically think other people listening may not know about oh and speaking of scams what do you think me and King Charles have got in common with regard to scams that are in the

Newspaper today this is extraordinary actually me and King Charles King Charles and I the king and I there you go got there in the end someone should write a musical the what do you think the King and I have got in common with regard to online scams it’s quite big

Actually I’ll tell you after this James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC 1218 is the time so what do you think me and the king have got in common when it comes to scams well they finally noticed that Amazon is full of fake books so on this

Occasion they’re selling books full of fake news about the king’s cancer diagnosis um and there’s one about me on Amazon as well did you know this so one of the lovely things about Christmas for me is the number of people who send me pictures of presents that involve my

Book or my board game I I really love it I I I just I don’t know why it’s become a Christmas tradition for me to scroll through Twitter liking all of the pictures of your presence of but there were a couple this year that stopped me in my tracks someone’s mom had bought

Them a book off Amazon thinking having asked for could I have James O’Brien’s new book how they broke Britain still in the Sunday Times top 10 yesterday some three and a half months after publication an extraordinary achievement by any St no sorry I’m getting car carried away can I have James O’Brien’s

New book for Christmas please Mom and so Mom went on Amazon and ordered what they thought was James O’Brien’s new book for Christmas but it’s a fake there’s a fake biography of me on there called James O’Brien the biography um Coming came out the month before my last book did and it is

Entirely uh lifted from Wikipedia so I imagine that you order it and they just print off a copy somebody somewhere some scammer prints off a copy of this book James O’Brien the biography and they charge you where’s the price uh £99.99 so listen one of the funniest things about my books on Amazon

If you if you want a giggle is the one star reviews from people who’ve never read a book in their life let alone read my book so quite a lot of gamy racist types go on and and give a one-star review and they’re hilarious I I mean never intentionally hilarious but

Certainly unintentionally hilarious I for two reasons number one the the the kind of literary standards of the posting and number two the idea that someone’s life is so tragic that they’re going to go pretend to have read a book by someone off the radio that they don’t

Like oh and number three have a look at the other things they’ve bought so if you if someone is giving me a fake one star review on Amazon their their shopping history if they’ve got a shopping history at all cuz some people have set up the accounts especially but

The shopping history will include it will say they’ll have like quite detailed accounts of of their last motor oil purchase or or a torch s like two paragraphs on a Tor they’re not the kind of people who look like they read um excellent uh uh bestselling political

Books on a on a very regular basis but these reviews for the James O’Brien biography that they’re outstanding listen I’m sorry but this is from Francis as much as I like James O’Brien I will not pay $9.99 for a book not much bigger than a pamphlet and that’s a

Verified purchase so poor old Francis is as bought this is a verified purchase as well this is a scam do not buy uh and this is from Mr apanar this is a scam it’s just a pamphlet of 30 pages copied and pasted from Wikipedia avoid at all costs and then another one

From Jake do not buy this is fake his book it’s 30 pages it’s literally Wikipedia copy and pasted so I imagine that that’s what these books are that everyone’s getting excited about today because someone’s gone on Amazon and seen all these bio graphies of King Charles that have been published it’s

Not new you just get AI to do it or you copy and paste it from Wikipedia and you get sent so you send off your 10 quid and they just press print and send you this crappy little pamphlet it’s terrible so there you go there’s four

People there and and God knows how many others a complete scam do not buy it whatever you do but it goes to show how sophisticated these scams are yes Lo Thy Neighbor is legit actually Matt that was an LBC marketing exercise so that book was written under the aaces of the LBC

Brand and it’s quite good um but it’s it’s I don’t think of it as a proper book it is more of a pamphlet it’s like an extended essay but uh but it is real but the one that’s not real is the one that claims uh that it’s my biography

And I mean to be fair I quite like the picture that they have Illustrated it with but it probably wouldn’t be if if if I were to publish my teeth look extraordinarily white actually I think they may have been photoshopped it’s probably not the picture I would choose

To go on my official biography um I probably choose the one that’s on the front of how they broke Britain actually but anyway I digress scams I bet Patrick and Croxley G can’t even remember why he rang in I do apologize for inflicting that upon you Patrick unprompted but

What made you pick up the phone in the first place right um yeah this is a bit like parking tickets isn’t it to important to you but just before last Christmas I got scamed for sh half Grand hang on a minute absolutely not it’s nothing like parking tickets this is a

Warning to everybody else a parking ticket no one ever listens to a parking ticket phone in and then thinks oh I won’t Park in a place where I’m not supposed to park again in case I get how dare you come on and undermine the entire thesis of this hour carry on

Honestly do you want to buy a biography while you’re here I’ve just ordered it now go um yeah no just before last Christmas I got scammed with a with a well-known online only Bank um somebody rang up and said oh you there’s two strange person on here oh yeah access

Accessed the app so I didn’t have to do anything it jumped up on the phone the app yeah and it showed it spent like $4.99 in dominoes and I’m just joking I don’t even like dominoes yeah so oh there’s another one here um which I need

To it looks like I might need to credit back to7 and a half thousand right and literally I went I got a bit worried about it because it seemed a little bit OD it was in a Shoe Shop in Dubai okay and um I would never been to Dubai

Anyway um yeah so literally in front of my eyes I’d never spent seven and a half Grand on shoes would have been a more obvious response I think that’s like three and a half thousand a foot um but um yeah so literally but in front of my

Eyes the balance went in my bank account for 7 and a half thousand right now when I reported it to this bank they were convinced and they were they were so adamant that I’d accessed something on there to allow them to do it and I hadn’t done anything at all this firm

Had actually access the app and the phone it up you know with the app in front of my face so it was the real app yeah yeah yeah so it’s my my my what in my bank anymore but that particular Bank yeah so you look on it and you you hit

It and obviously it brings up on the screen and then as they’re looking at it I can see you know when someone is typing you know when they can you see things happening there you can see so it made sense but whoever this was and fair play they were very very clever but

They’d actually accessed it to take the money and there was no code put in in no no literally I I was do you have facial recognition on it well on the phone yeah that might be right that might be relevant but the the the bang with admin it’s never ever happened before it

Couldn’t have happened you must have done something but yeah it was and I’m not an oldie I’m not a youer either but you know I figured myself as being pretty clued up online banking for 15 years and this was just but it was all

So quick and so slick and so easy and I what’s the scam then cuz they put money in your account no no no they basically took 7 and a half grand out they took it and it just went right and then with a lot of battling I was battling with the

Bank to get it back and after a few weeks I eventually did and then the weirdest thing was I actually got a credit from this shoe shop in Dubai and because of the uh because the interest rate I actually ended up with more money than that was taken out so I

Was up by about £ 7,800 on the deal in the end How Bizarre but that was just that was obviously something else we still don’t know how it worked then no and then I’ve asked and and the bank obviously I’m not using them anymore and they just say it’s never happened it

Couldn’t have happened they couldn’t have got access to I bet it’s your facial recognition that somehow that but they did give me the bank did actually refund me in the end but they were adamant but they do that I think just just to make it go away don’t they they

Probably if you’d gone all the way to court they may have had a case for saying sorry caveat empor you you know shouldn’t have done what you did it’s not our fault but equally it costs them a lot less just to just to and also they

Got it back from the original place so how do you avoid that in the future for people listening you just don’t they’ll never they’re never going to do that the bank are never going to so saying they’re the fraud department ringing you automatically suspicious automatically this this is it obviously what you know

What I was told advised to do like everyone else is is you literally you hang up totally hang up and then call you back no matter what happens cuz this you know people like you you’ve just broken my switchboard then I mean it’s full already so it won’t matter but they

Do the thing where you think you have hung up but you haven’t they have to hang up at the other end so you need a proper dial tone or you need and so don’t even do that I wouldn’t I I’d just wait you know if they’ve got 7 and a

Half Grand you can fix it tomorrow or fix it in two hours time but it is there I mean it’s so sophisticated that no one should be embarrassed or ashamed of being of being ripped off that’s my view anyway now it didn’t used to be Deborah’s point out that Amazon

Currently has a two-book deal today mine and David Cameron’s for $24.99 for the pair who’s going to want to buy my book alongside David Cameron David Cameron’s in my book as one of the men who broke Britain but hey ho there’s no accounting for Taste Allie’s in Halifax allly what

Would you like to say morning James how are you very good mate what’s on your mind so I got done for 700 pound three weeks ago how much how much 700 700 what happened so my uncle who’s obviously abroad uh me up know I’ve got this Urgent Message from a

Friend of mine longtime family friend he needs some money desperately right so I said okay uh he goes I can’t send it can you send it for me so you know he sent me a message un I ran my uncle said look is this you goes yeah yeah I got a

Message from s so you need to send him some money I said okay leave it with me I’ll send the money try to send it V me Bank uh wouldn’t have it so I said to Uncle I can’t send it when he go me he a

Guy’s uh number just WhatsApp him and t t it out with him so WhatsApp in this person who I thought was my uncle’s friend they look like C send this money they said oh just send it to this other account sent it without thinking uh and

Then they sent me a message saying can you send me confirmation it’s been paid I said well here’s a screenshot of me Bank I’ve sent it then they said no no send something else I said look what’s going on don’t mess me well yeah I rang the number I rang the number yeah

Actually got through to my uncle’s friend apparently somebody had somehow hacked his WhatsApp and been sending messages from the WhatsApp account to all his contacts desperately asking for money me when I’m when I’m whatsapping somebody on the computer like you can do it now yeah I’m actually going through

Fraud say when I actually ring the number that’s associated with a WhatsApp number I actually they must have been near him maybe with their laptop must to been near him physically I mean he’s an elderly gentleman so probably but I mean when I ranged him up they said yeah

We’ve had lots of people do this they they already thankfully logged it with the National Crime agency so I had the reference number I already sent the money and he was like really upsetting all I said worry about the money but you got it back you’ve been done over yeah I

Rang barley and uh it took about a couple of weeks and the funny thing is it was actually another Barley’s account I sent the money to so getting the money back was but James did the sting in a tail is I work in cyber security no you

Oh M well that proves the point doesn’t it exactly even I got done over because you because you thought whatsapp’s end to end in Crypt so you thought you’d be fine with that and I spoke to my uncle and you know I trust my uncle inly being a family member thought whatever

Information he gives me is always totally legit and it’s the hacking of the WhatsApp that got me and when I rang the bank just to be make everybody aware this actually it’s going around the houses now this scam it’s called a friends and family scam yeah no I’ve

Heard of it from somebody yeah and you can say it’s your your child I get them quite regularly and I’ve got children of of a relevant age who could conceivably have lost all their gear and being ended up potless in the middle of nowhere but I know that it’s I know that it’s

Nonsense and and so one thing what would you do then to advise so what would you say to someone from your as a cyber security expert what would you say to someone don’t say that my own back now I would just say if you get a message like

That ring the person first to confirm it is the person you’re speaking to the person you’re giving the money to not the not in your case your uncle’s not good enough you need to get the number off your uncle’s mate off your uncle and then ring him and say what’s going on

Well my uncle is a that gave me the number so I just assumed them went on WhatsApp but I should have actually rang the number first and then started conversing so that’s what I did yeah good lord well there you go and if it can happen to you it can happen to

Anyone that was The crucial point of this conversation because I’ve done it in the past and people have rung in who were I mean you could say and I mean this very kindly and generously who who who did sound as if they might fall for a scam whereas if Ally works in the

Sector and I work in the media and what have you then that shows how sophisticated these scams are so there’s no shame and embarrassment in this 12:32 is the time Amelia Cox is here now with your headlines James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC 1236 is the

Time I I think I can run the risk of invoking the curse of O’Brien on this one because she has just announced that she won’t be standing at the next general election but I met Tracy Crouch at a do party and um I thought she was a

Brilliant uh really lovely person and a really good politician I always you know my endless quest for likable Tories just in the interest of balance but she has just added her name to the very very long list of people who conservative MPS in particular who will not be standing

At the next election I’ve just seen that on Twitter 12:37 is the time uh noga tulsky is a freelance journalist currently in Jerusalem and uh someone to whom I thought we could turn in uh in pursuit of two things really noga first an update if you like on on what is

Happening now with regard to the bombardment of Rafa and then if there’s time uh a bit of a steer on how the unfolding situation is being greeted in Israel Itself by by by the Israeli public because we get sometimes a slightly skewed picture I think in in in

The UK media so let’s let’s begin with the bombardment overnight and what we know um so it was a there was a very elaborate uh operation overnight when you but I don’t know how other people hear it when you say bombardment I think I’m hearing like airplane bombings in

Fact this was a combined Secret Service special ops mostly ground operation that included also bombardment I think as far to the best of my ability to understand it had two aims one General aim which is basically to crush what’s left of Hamas leadership in uh the area of RA where the Israeli

Authorities believe Hamas leaders have escaped too mostly the other was a complex operation that followed on very specific Intel and it was aimed at uh rescuing two Israeli hostages held by Hamas and it was a successful operation and two hostages came home it’s the first time Israelis have seen any

Hostages come home alive since November and the death toll as far as we know well we don’t know and this is again a complexity Hamas initially like as the the event was had just finished or was still underway said 50 people were killed they specified in the operation to rescue the hostages then

Last I saw the number had gone up to 68 the Israelis have not released any official numbers but you can see my respected colleague tal Schneider tweeting now um The Washington Post for example reported that 68 had died in the operation as if it were a matter of

Confirmed fact whereas these are figures issued by Hamas and in very in a few quite a few signal moments of this war when there’s been a significant amount of international media tension Hamas have released either numerical information or general information that has turned out to be false but once it’s

Discovered to be false the fake story has already made its way into people’s hearts and Minds okay so the the truth has not got its trousers on when the when the misrepresentation is halfway around the world but I think it’s a long way of s to we don’t yet know okay but

The figure the figure of the figure of 1.4 million displaced Palestinians I think is Undisputed that there are currently 1.4 million people possibly even more even maybe Sheltering in Raa where I mean following Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli coverage more closely than I can where are these people supposed to

Go well that is uh the huge question and that’s the question that has provoked I think every single Allied government the British the French the Germans uh the Americans to really War Netanyahu who refuses to answer that question he keeps talking very belligerently about a an imminent Gaz Opera uh sorry an imminent

Rafa operation the absolute necessity of such and so on every day he mentions this as if as if he were a general guiding the Army fact of the matter is there is no proposed solution the Israelis have not said a word there has been some vague talk of something

Impossible which is oh quote they’ll move up north well there’s really nowhere up in North Gaza where these people can go to and it’s also unclear that there’s any way for them to get there so this is the huge question even the Americans have said that a Rafa

Operation could be and I’m quoting a disaster and they’re really pushing Netanyahu for his own reasons of political survival really unrelated to the war effort and I think by now undisputably harming Israel’s war effort refuses to answer any questions about what might happen to bring this war to

An end and that includes arfa operation Because he believes that if the minute this war ends the Israeli public will find some way to get him out of office he’s hugely unpopular leader right now this is an extraordinary development really because any support for Israel’s continued actions in Gaza for example in this

Country is contingent Upon A belief that Provisions are in place for the evacuation of the Palestinian people but as you’re telling us that there are no Provisions in place and Benjamin Netanyahu is not even pretending to answer the question anymore that’s right and just to I think it’s important to

Underscore the tremendous harm that netan is causing his own Nation not only his Generals in their effort to bring an end to this war to conclude it but his country you know the country’s International reputation because he’s talking so much about AAA operation that most people believe it’s already

Underway that Israel is blowing its way into ra and so on the one hand he’s not doing it he’s just talking about it and on the other hand there is no plan under there’s no known plan let’s put it that way for him to enable him or his army to

Do so um so it’s a very complex and very chaotic I would say situation and I I I sense from what you’ve told us already that you you you think public opinion is is Shifting further against him is that is that correct and what would the Breaking Point look like well yeah I

Mean it’s not so much what I think these are this is the the facts on the matter there were two more polls published this weekend so two days ago uh that showed his party losing more than half of its power in Parliament where elections held

Now um and he has only 32 seat I think he has 34 seats out of 120 right now so it would make him a nonviable uh candidate for prime minister and that’s what he’s trying to push off the Israelis I think we maybe we should just remind people netan came

Back to office about a year ago and immediately tried to overthrow the Israeli system of government he’s on trial and he was trying to protect himself so he when this war happened when it started on October 7th he was already an extraordinarily unpopular prime minister and since then the way

That he has undertaken the war and his absolute screaming failure to take any responsibility for the disaster that beell Israelis has caused him to Tumble I mean 80% of Israelis consistently in every poll want um they you know want him to be gone and finally do do we have

Any indication of what public support in Israel for a for a ceasefire looks like at the moment so yeah there’s less polling to be honest with you about that but the last serious poll I saw also uh Friday from the Israel democracy Institute showed that more than half

Just more than half than Israelis say that the most important aim of the war has to be the return of the hostages and that implies I don’t know about a ceasefire a truce but certainly a stop in the fighting to bring them home and that that is more important than the

Other War aims articulated by this government which include you know crushing Hamas killing its leadership destroying all of hamas’s weaponry and so forth most Israelis see the number one aim as stopping the disaster and bringing the hostages home uh noga tanoli many thanks indeed noar as I said a freelance journalist currently in

Jerusalem and uh as you gathered keeping a very close eye on developments both in Israel and of course in Gaza where um uh the ground defensive as it were hasn’t hasn’t even begun yet as she reminded us um 1.4 million plus Palestinians Liv in their to 10 a thousand 7 I think 177,000

Children without parents in Gaza according to the United Nations and warnings of even greater catastrophe just around the corner warnings not are not really or Warnings from Western leaders that are simply not being heeded by Netanyahu so listen I I I know I have to take it on the chin when I criticize

Benjamin Netanyahu you can call me anti-semitic but that’s the question it’s always the question that that defines and determines the salience of the point being made where are they supposed to go if he’s not answering that question you can’t support him unless you are supporting the idea of of 1.4 million

People being targeted and attacked with with nowhere to go to where are they supposed to go that’s the question today that’s the only question really that matters and I will just say again that for those of us who worry what this war is going to do to Israel for the decades

To come what it’s going to do to Israel’s International standing what it’s going to do to the um uh the status of the country in the minds of younger people in particular I I really really can’t think of a more Grim indicator of that particular issue than the kind of

Characters who have Allied themselves to Netanyahu in particular in the UK media they are not friends of Israel they are not friends of the Jewish people they are just motivated by a shared enemy if you like and in some cases rank islamophobia um and you know some of the

Receipts are in plain sight it’s 12:47 James O’Brien on LBC James O’Brien on LBC 1251 is the time we haven’t done one of these for a while have we W watch so I don’t know if you were aware of the fact that um last Sunday as in a week ago yesterday the

HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier was supposed to begin its deployment to a huge NATO exercise just off Norway but it was canceled at the last minute after an issue was found with a coupling on the starboard propeller shaft and yesterday the HMS Prince of Wales which was due to replace HMS Queen Elizabeth

In exercise steadfast Defender um also failed to set sail for a NATO exercise so that’s two massive aircraft carriers both of which have not been sent to a huge NATO exercise just off Norway because of well in one case definitely a mechanical fault and I think in the case

Of uh HMS Prince of Wales still as yet undefined factors so quite a big deal you’d agree right huge aircraft carriers faults NATO exercise Grant shaps is currently the Secretary of State for defense and on the morning after an aircraft carrier that failed to set sail for a NATO exercise a week

After its sistership pulled out because of a mechanical fault Grant shaps has written an article for the Daily Express that appears under the headline woke culture is poisoning Common Sense the Secretary of State for defense is writing for a comic about wokeness the morning after a royal Navy aircraft

Carrier failed to set sail for a NATO exercise a week after its sistership pulled out because of a mechanical fault and that concludes the L edition of woke watch 12:53 is the time now keeping speaking of keeping an eye on things fergo shaki has laterally become the patron saint of water cleanliness

And the and the BET Noir The Scourge of greedy water companies polluting our waterways so I thought I would just check in with him about the story elsewhere in today’s news about water company bosses possibly facing limits on the enormous bonuses that they trouser even while pumping shocking amounts of

Sewage into our waterways and and thankfully fle has has made himself available so I am I going mad fergel or is there an air of is there an air of deja vu around this announcement uh I have a sneaking suspicion James I’m about to help you sell another few copies of how they

Broke Britain you are you are right in that today’s announcement absolutely replicates the same announcement they made 12 months ago but did nothing about that was six months after the they were actually going to sell water company bosses to jail but did nothing about and that comes two weeks ago they announced

That were stopping self monitoring by water companies the very same announcement that they made three years ago it’s just another illustration there’s a complete void of talent and ability and the well also taking us all for mugs as well because you know without you to point this stuff out some people might

Fall for it oh I think the phone like well we got the gist of it didn’t we we got the gist of it put across I very kindly put in a plug for my book I obviously I’m very uncomfortable plugging it myself so I’m very grateful to fergal for mentioning

It but I do indeed address some of these issues I think I think the technology has defeated us but you heard him there in the nutshell they’ve done it before it reminds me a bit of when my one of my daughters was very young and she asked

Me if she could spend her birthday money again so she got some money for her birthday and she went out and bought something and then she saw something else that she wanted and she said can I spend it again Daddy that’s what they’re doing that’s what they’re treating you

Like the bonus ban for water bosses who break rules has already been announced about 30 times previously we have we got him back have one more go one more go on this before the gry they’re coming to get you fergo um but they’re taking they’re taking the British public for

Mugs is really the gist of what you’re telling us H oh listen they completely are it’s now just got to the point James where is clearly absolutely devoid of intellect and the ability to generate any original create creative thought at all and bearing in mind the one bit that

Made me giggle this morning when I saw this bearing in mind the Secretary of State for the environment is actually married to the head of planning and infrastructure for anglian water a company find two and a half million pound last year by my guesstimate spent nearly five half a million hours dumping

Seage into the environment I ium he has told his wife he’s going to deprive her of her of her bonus absolutely extraordinary and and just just in conclusion that most people probably don’t realize that these companies have been paying their Executives massive bonuses even as they were breaking the

Law uh I think we’re looking at something in the reason of 26 million pound over the last three or four years alone bearing in mind these companies have taken out 72 billion in dividends and leaving these companies 60 billion in debt it just shambles from one end to

The other well it is that and um just out of interest do you like the look of any of the opposition parties on this do you do I I’m waiting for somebody to step up to the plate show real leadership and ultimately and it’s across the board

James this country is in too much pain right now and we need somebody to show us there is hope and that there’s a brighter future somewhere down the line I’m looking for somebody to step up and start delivery well fego shaki speaking I think for millions of us on the bigger

Picture of the state of the nation as well as the the detail of this latest story about a bonus ban another bonus ban for water bosses who break rules I love the way it just drops it that you know that was 12 months ago that was 6

Months ago that was two weeks ago that was three months ago stop me if you think you’ve heard this one before cuz you have fergo shaky there um so I squeeze in Maria swind Marian can you do it in a minute Marian yes absolutely take it

Away um I was the victim of a port out scam on the 20th of December what’s the port scam it’s when somebody requests to my phone company that they move my phone number to another phone company oh um so they sent me a link saying that I needed

To update my payment details with my phone company right and I did I did need to add a new card and I kept thinking oh I’ll do that I’ll do that so one evening probably a glass of wine in I click clicked the link gave them my email address my password my bank

Details yeah so they contacted my they logged into my phone company they asked for my number to be transferred to a different um Network good Lord and they then downloaded my phone my banking app from your phone yeah and they they didn’t have my phone they my phone

Number they had they had your phone number so the app oh my days LED on yes absolutely verifications they luckily luckily when it actually happened I was in town and my phone went dead absolutely nothing so I went straight straight into the shop of this phone

Company can I tell you who it was yeah go on and um you just said it then before I gave you permission I did you could get you did you said can I tell you who it was O2 you could get me into all sorts of trouble I’m sure I’m sure

That’s not how it happen go on Sheila is here now so go on give us the punch line um I I teach cyber security oh no not another one this is extra this is the whole show to everyone who’s been scanned as a cyber security expert

Honestly uh if you missed any of today’s show you missed at least three cyber Security Experts and me all revealing that we could have been scammed you can listen back on catch actually Ali and Halifax was scammed alifax as I call him you can listen back on global player the

Official LBC app where you can also pause and Rewind live radio download it now for free from your app store or head to Global player.com always insist on ringing them back from a different phone number that that’s one little thing you can do is but there’s loads of other

Guides Online coming up at 4 on LBC it’s Tom swri but now it’s time for Sheila foger James O’Brien on LBC