The Article: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24519664/captain-tom-moores-son-in-law-businesses-bust/
Colin Ingram-Moore (in headlines regarding the Captain Tom Foundation) reportedly liquidated companies owing £3.7 million to HMRC and trade creditors.
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As promised a few more personal thoughts on the Ingram Moore story reported by the Sun and one or two bits that I left out straight to it the bit that I left out was that the sun reported that Colin Ingram Moore uh to quote the son even
Brought back a company vehicle 5 years old vool vivaro for £2,250 which costs £33,000 brand new now I was able to find the document on company’s house from the uh Liquidators where they wrote up the reports of the sale of assets and so on under Vehicles it says the company’s
Motor vehicle was a roxil vivaro van which was 5 years old and had been used extensively following my appointment the receiver goes on I received an offer to purchase this vehicle from Mr Ingram Moore a director of the company the offer was in the sum of £2,250 plus vat I received no other
Offer for the vehicle and following advice from my agents who advised that the offer was at market value Mr Ingram Moore’s offer was accepted the purchaser Mr Ingram Moore took his own advice in the matter and I received 2 250 in October 2011 so on the face of it it appears
That whilst it might sound like a staggering difference between 2250 and £33,000 new it appears that this was the market value for the vehicle now I don’t know anything about that vehicle obviously but my very cursory search of autot Trader suggests that an extensively used 5-year-old voxel vivaro van with I put
In 990,000 M on the clock appears to be valued at between 7 and 1 half and 15,000 pound but it depends on the condition of the vehicle now I am not a vehicle expert at all I haven’t bought or sold that many vehicles because I tend to keep my vehicles for a long
Period of time when I buy them usually in excess of 10 years per vehicle but more on that in another video perhaps on my money Channel which is Daniel shens Smith Linked In the description below I’ll talk about vehicles and my thoughts on them there so there seems to be a bit
Of disparity in my view between what’s written here about that being market value and my very cursory search for what would be market value for that sort of vehicle but obviously I didn’t see the vehicle I’ve no idea what state the vehicle was in maybe that was perfect
Market value for the vehicle and that was a perfectly reasonable offer and that was the offer that was accepted now if that was wildly under what the vehicle was worth uh doubtless I would expect the receivers would not have accepted that offer but then obviously coming back to the way that it’s written
Up in the sun no criticism son obviously um you’re there to write this up in the uh most attention grabbing way and I applaud you for that uh but the way that it’s written uh does seem to emphasize the contrast between 2250 and 33,000 brand new certainly it was not worth
33,000 uh when it was brought back from the company from the receivers uh by Mr Ingram Moore so I thought again that was fair to point out now this vehicle was in relation to the second company that was liquidated bck KMS limited but as for more General position of companies
Going into liquidation I really don’t like hearing about companies going bust owing thousands or even hundreds of thousands of pounds to Independent Traders and companies and essentially people that will have turned up and done work or supplied Goods for the use of the company that’s gone bust because
They are obviously left with a huge debt a huge deficit to their company now a lot of people will then argue well that’s just a loss to the company that they can write off against tax but of course it doesn’t really work like that these companies invariably will have a
Big chunk out of their profits and ultimately a significant amount of their time and trading has all been for nothing and they have to work doubly hard to to recover those gaps in their books and ultimately that has a knock on effect on all of their other customers
And everybody else as a whole so everybody else will have to end up paying a higher price to cover these gaps but also it may push many of these other companies into liquidation themselves and they may have to cease trading because they may simply have no money with which to continue trading and
Of course have debts of their own the only real way that companies can avoid void this is to only pay for things UPF front that they intend to use whether those are services or goods and products and so on that is obviously not always possible and there are various financing
Methods available for that to which they should seek the assistance of Banks and Investments and invoice financing and so on but again more about that over on my money channel Daniel Shen Smith Linked In the description below But ultimately my personal thoughts on how this relates to the charity and fundraising
Activities whilst the two are obviously completely separate and there’s nothing inherent between the two distinct events to suggest any wrongdoing it does suggest that those behind the companies had extensive experience in going through setting up and running companies and of course when things go wrong and with uh Colin being a chartered
Accountant himself obviously would have had a good idea of everything that that was going on but not withstanding I think it would be a little bit Hasty and perhaps a little bit unfair to link this news story with the charity fundraising to use one to chalk the other up in a
Bad light ultimately the charity commission is going to investigate the foundation and come to their own conclusions independently on that alone and personally while this current new story is not a great one I personally don’t think it should have too much of a bearing on what’s going on now that’s
Just my personal thought because obviously these things happened a long time ago and sometimes things just don’t work out and as I said in my black belt Barr video there was obviously a professional insolvency practitioner instructed on each of these cases and they would perform an independent and Professional Service in liquidating all
Of the assets and doing all of that fairly so if you read this in the news and you’re attempted to link the two together I would just urge a little bit of pause for thought and caution and treat each case on its own Merit and independently these are the bits that I
Think people may have their attention drawn to from those articles but obviously this spills a little bit into personal opinion which is why we’re here on black belt Secrets but I hope you found that interesting please do Bop the like button and subscribe and I’ll see you very shortly because I have
Something else to talk to you about that’s completely separate so it’ll be in a different video bye for now
43 Comments
This channel is full of salty people. Moan moan moan
Newspaper companies are in the business of selling newspapers and are probably trying to sell a few additional copies as they know a lot of the public have negative feelings towards the family. They print stories based on the political views of their owners and staff. They seem to be painting a picture of poor business acumen by the family. My dad always used to say there are two sides of a coin to most stories. A number of property companies fail when property values fall.
Although the failure of the company all those years ago cannot be directly tied to Captain Tom Moore & the Foundation in his name – I think it still could possibly be a reflection of the competency or otherwise, of the people who were running/managing that company – & it's possible that that level of competency/incompetency may have carried over into the Foundation – because the same people were involved in the establishment of the Foundation, as were involved in that failed company all those years ago.
I'm only suggesting that as a possibility though – as I do not know exactly "why" the company failed, all those years ago. But when dealing with companies, I always think it's a good idea to check who the directors are, & find out whether they were also the directors of previously failed companies – because that may give people a good idea of how competent they are when managing a company as a director.
I have own a few vans & when retired (2017). I sold my last van for £2000. It was 6 years old & at the time was market value. Now if I sold it today (van prices have gone silly), I would have sold it for at least 5k.
Quick question, do you not add the credit and his offer together? Therefore amounting to £14,248 in total for that specific vehicle…?
Yes the credit was before and the offer was after, but they surely combine if the money came from the same source.
Thus bringing the total (technically paid back) along the same lines as your search for an example to use in this case?
There was vat applied on the offer too, so in my "non-financial" "non-legal" mind, this could be the reasonable conclusion to removing that vehicle from the list of assets.
We can all go round in circles but all it boils down to is this has done so much harm to other charities that people will think twice about donating I myself would be one of them the same thing happened during lockdown with the nurses and doctors people were standing on thier doorsteps clapping while thier dancing on tic tok making fools of people
Condition of the van probably has a huge variable. But I'd say a 5 year old vab, probably with high mileage, you would struggle to get more than 2-3k for it, it doesn't sound massively unreasonable. Most people would rather get a new car on finance with a warranty period than take the risk of spending 3k on something that could be unreliable.
Opening a can of worms now…
Soon as you hear a connection its an alert. How can anyone live with them selves to owe so much money to others and continue to be able to involve themselves in charity or a life of finance as before. 😢 If you get my meaning. Same as if you got stung by a wasp would you let it do it again
My forensic accounting skills are rusty, but the main debtors of the main company talked about in the Sun were the directors themselves and a property dev company that seems be ultimately owned by a Northern Ireland registered LLP (nuff said!)
Just a point about the sale of that vehicle, did the liquidators agent have a strange hand shake!!
I've liquidated a few companies in my time as it's a tax efficient was to get money out when the company is EOL. Their are 2 high-level types of liquidation, when the company runs out of money and if effectively bankrupt or when the company has lots of money and/or assets but has reached end of life (maybe founders want to retire/died but its not salable as the company is the people…). In the latter truth be told the administrators work with the directors to help them extract as much cash as possible. I've certainly knows circumstances where a director has bough as asset at a fraction of market price, then sold it on the next day at significant profit and effectively removed that money from the company "tax free". It's an accepted practice where the only person hurt is the tax man…
Where their is a bankruptcy… Well we all know their can be back scratching, Phoenix moves and down right asset stripping but this is hard to prove.
Many small businesses go bust because of outstanding invoices that are not paid for various reasons. Small building companies employing just ten men might have to wait months before invoices are paid. That can quickly run up to many thousands of pounds. If the invoice (debt) is not paid it can result in the small business collapsing.
that family are grifters all the way
Many organisations declare bankruptcy as an easy option to get out of paying contractors, then subsequently go on to create a new company Only to carry out the same action a few years later.
Not only is this totally unfair, but it is an abuse of the system. I would welcome your thoughts on this, how can it be stopped and is there any plans on behalf of the government to try and curtail this practice?
@BBB What I find interesting about this, is the (potential) fraud against the creditors and the conduct of the liquidator.
Is it not a wrong going for a liquidator to accept low, signicant undervaluing assets?
What are the reasonable professional standards in terms of selling assests in practice must they uphold?
I would question your pronouncement that liquidators conduct themselves fairly or professional. Whilst many do, their funding basis, means that they are placed in a situation (to maximise their profits) to be expedient (cut corners).
Seems like a good business opportunity buying up under valued assets of liquidated companies. Do liquidators need to declare their associations with such practices or activity?
Your views please.
Whenevet I see anything on the Wapping Liar, I know that whatever it is, it just ain't so.
With aplogies to Mark Twain.
From the very beginning this was a staged event to push an agenda imo.
They disgraced Major Tom’s good name
I don't give money to charities they can't be trusted
I worked for a company that went into recievership & was made redundant . The company in question changed its CEO to the previous ones wife & changed its name then hey presto its back in business ! A new foreign work force at cut price wages , I along with many others had worked there for over 25 years so a few grand redundancy was an insult . How can these scumbags get away with this & still come out of it smelling like roses while playing the pity card ?
Sometimes I do think you go on a bit.
Maybe it’s the nature of the job
There all utter scum
All depends if vehicle was advertised, I would imagine a 5 year van should be worth at lest 30 % of purchase cost. Although the does seem to be issues with the charity these people are small scale compared to the big boys who regularly have huge companies go bust leaving many owed money .
Cost new in 2008 £19k. Not £30k which i suspect is today's new price. Given it was a 2006 van it would have been a bit cheaper. Remember that the Sun, like all newspapers is not going to give you facts that are fully truthful and honest. They will give you facts that allow you to draw the conclusion they want you to draw. A sensational one!
Please don't get drawn into this kind of tawdry argument. It doesn't do you any favours and without presenting the proper facts you are simply exacerbating the problem.
I hate seeing sensationalist values in the press, I have recently seen some dire reporting in the Financial Times and the BBC where the reporters clearly do not understand the difference between Retail and Wholesale values. In both cases this was in terms of art and antiques at auction. In this case it would appear to me to be an entirely false value to to sensationalise the story. Inflation appears to have been left out of the equation, which is particularly acute post pandemic, and the key factor that no-one sells a second hand car for a retail price (which includes a guarantee) has been ommitted due to ignorance or intent.
as i understand it, businesses can appoint a liquidator themselves, ie, voluntary liquidation and when this is the case, they can and often do choose a 'friendly' one that 'helps' them gain some benefits from the liquidation.
MY GOD
you dont mean to tell me That you belive that what THE SUN and the rest of gutter press prints is the truth do you
None of them have a very good track record with the concept of telling the truth do they
( apparently all this bumph happened at least 7 or 8 years ago so pre captain tom fiasco )
So Lets just wait and see what happens and transpires
Take my word for it another lot of lawyers and solicitors are gonna make another fortune out this debacle
If the money was paid in quickly, and advice had been obtained – that might be the best option for the liquidators, makes for an easy life. If the cost of obtaining a higher amount, given the time it might take to do so, is high (and liquidators charges are substantial), then selling the van to a willing buyer may well be the best outcome.
It probably just shows they’re as bent as 9 bob notes
Well, I know that used vehicle prices have risen somewhat recently but £2250 for a 2006 Vivaro van even now is fairly low and only seems to get you a grubby shed with 150k+ on the clock. Having been on the loser's (ie unsecured creditor) end of liquidations a few times I don't have a very high opinion of receivers.
In any event, they would have to pay me to take a Vivaro away – it will be its own punishment.
THEY ARE CROOKS
This transaction was in 2011, 12 years ago. They weren't £33k in 2006 and £2500 for a 5 year old well used van in 2011 was about right. Post pandemic used van prices went through the roof but back in 2011 coming off the back of the financial crisis they were worth very little. Typically biased and dishonest reporting by the SUN. Scum bag tabloid owned by a scumbag, run by scumbags and read by morons.
Think of all the unaccountable cash that they must’ve received via the postie.
3 customers gone under in a year. Lost 1000ps and almost sent under and still struggling to solve it
My 2009 Vivaro is worth £5500.
It's disgusting what this family have done to captain Tom's name and memory. My only hope is that they get fully investigated.
5-star hotels charged to charity?
I have no doubt that the very honest Ingram-More family will be found to have done absolutely nothing wrong, because the usual powers that be will be Masons or rancid torys or a combination of both, bit odd that the liquidator did not put the van up for auction, and them saying they received no other offers is because of this reason allegedly
Lol. They have to knock down the spa. Nae luck.
I have a feeling this family manipulated the situation for their own ends
Sounds dodgy to me😮
The whole thing was arranged, the ingrams new exactly what they were doing and the press pounced on Captin Tom's wee walks around his sprawling mansion as a welcoming distraction for the whole Covid fiasco.