It’s easy to theorize and speculate about angels and demons. But what do you do when you actually encounter demonic activity in your home or parish? Fr. Creighton and Fr. Hayden find out by sitting with Fr. Matt Harlow, the Canon to the Ordinary in the Diocese of the Eastern United States of the Anglican Province of America, as he recounts an experience they had at his parish, Christ the Redeemer in Warner Robins, Georgia.
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Welcome to the sacramental list a podcast where the ancient Christian faith is brought to bear on issues prevalent in modern culture we’re your hosts I’m father kraton mline and I’m father Hayden Butler today we are uh recording our episode without father Wes um father Wes has had a tough week uh so
Keep him in your prayers um today though on our episode we are joined by father Matt harlo uh father Matt is the Canon to the ordinary in the dasis of the Eastern United States Anglican province of America and he is the Rector of Christ the Redeemer in Fort Valley
Georgia um he was also at St Barnabas uh where I got to know him very well um and in this episode we’re going to discuss a very interesting topic uh we’re going to discuss exorcisms um specifically father is going to tell us about an exp experience in his own Parish father
Thanks for joining us sure thank you for having me we’re we’re excited about uh jumping into this conversation I think it’s definitely going to be interesting and I know when we posted on the Discord uh that we were going to be having you on to talk about this topic there was
Definitely some interest there uh so I think the best place to start is uh just telling us what what happened at your Parish sure well um first off let me describe what the parish looks like uh we are U seven acres and it was an old uh
Pecan uh uh we had a lot of pecan trees an old pecan Farm we had a farm house and a barn and it’s about one acre wide and seven acres deep so kind of think of you know football field wide and it goes back s Acres um we’ve have since built a
Church and I’m in the church right now in the church the parking lot and the Parish Hall are kind of in the first third they’re about the first uh two acres and then we have we’ve got the field and a barn and we use the barn as
A thrift shop and in the field we’ve got uh you know playground equipment and that kind of thing it’s you know it’s about another two acres um and that’s behind the uh the Parish Hall and then behind that we have a fenced area we’ve got a gate that’s behind the barn and
We’ve got the back third which is basically uh woods and uh uh some field that’s overgrown so that’s uh kind of the layout of this parish and I’ve been here since 2015 and when I first got here of course and uh father kadon and I were talking about some of the
Challenges of first arriving at a uh parish and one of the interesting things I found when I first got here was a peor sorum and uh we I I’ve since installed a tabernacle but we all we had was an ombre at the time and in the Ombre was this peor um
Sorum and uh I think the way that my predecessor used it was kind of as a bread box because when I first saw the alter Guild doing their work and I I think I was just a guest at this point uh they were they were they would put
New fresh hosts from the uh from the Sacristy into this and then put it in the in the Ombre and so I I I just gather it’s it’s not how I uh you know learned how to to do that but uh that probably they were
Just using it as a bread box and so what I did was uh I took it out of circulation i i i cleansed it I actually consumed everything that was in it I wasn’t sure if it was consecrated or not um so I consumed all the hosts that were
In it and um and then uh took it out of circulation uh uh cleaned it in the sacy and um and I put it in my office and it was in my office for over eight years it had moved uh uh I’d moved it a
Couple of times at one point it was in my desk another point it was in uh in a CL in the closet and it’s just one of those things you have a sorum what am I going to do with it I don’t really you know I’ve brought my
Own sorum I have my own chalice and Haden uh this one you know peer wasn’t particularly attractive and I just didn’t know anything about it so um and I wanted to always knew that I I wanted to bury it at some point but you know how things go um you just uh one
Thing leads to another and eight years later you still have a sorum in your office um and so uh that is kind of the background on the sorum unknown Providence I don’t know you know where it came from I I don’t know exactly what it was used for I my suspicion was it
Was used as a bread box um but like I said I consumed all the the host and and went ahead and uh um you know properly cleaned it and took it out of circulation uh so fast forward eight years and we’re having a parish work day
And this is August 26th of 2023 having a parishwide work day and uh we have some old Pascal candles in the Sacristy and they asked me what to do with it I said well let’s just go bury them out back and then the light bulb
Went off oh hey I’ve had a sorum in my office for for you know eight years that I’ve wanted to to bury um here on the parish grounds uh let’s do that so there was uh a group of men um uh four of us all together
I I I gathered them they were uh just standing around looking like they needed something to to do type thing you know how work days go and so said grab a shovel and follow me we’re going to bury some bury these things and uh so that’s
What we did and we actually went behind the barn to that back third of of the parish back where the woods are and the overgrown field you have to actually unlock a gate to get through there um and so I I I took them back there and uh
Several of the men with with shovels uh dug a hole for uh the the Pascal candles from previous years the little Stumpy Pascal candles that uh were wonderful but you know we needed to do something with them um and uh the sorum and we actually buried them in two different
Holes the the men with the shovels dug a a wide hole for for the uh uh Pascal candles and then uh uh we had actually my assisting priest had a a a post hole digger and he dug a hole with that because that actually fit pretty well
For the sorum and so he used that and we buried the sorum about 10 feet away from where we buried the um the Pascal candles so that was uh August 26th a Saturday and um didn’t think anything else of it and uh and I did take
Pictures of that because I you know uh amongst the many hats of course I’m the editor of our Parish newsletter and and I like getting pictures of everything that we’re doing around the parish on workday and so I had a a handful of uh you know pictures from that day and I
Took pictures of uh uh of us bearing those items didn’t didn’t think about it again uh let’s fast forward um to a month later uh to September 26 and this was a Tuesday morning and uh I our schedule here our typical schedule around the parish is Tuesday morning we have a 9:00 am
Morning prayer and then we have a Bible study so I get here about 8 before uh anyone else arrives at the parish and so I got here about 8 and I I was uh I I come into the parish first I put my cassic on then I go to the Parish Hall
And uh uh that’s my routine so uh and I take my books and everything and get all set up for for Bible study I come in I I get my cassic on and I go outside and I hear uh what sounds like someone whistling at me the the
Whistle I’m not a good whistler but the whistle is the type that if you’re trying to get somebody attention or get someone to come over here you know just a pretty basic um sorry about that sorry about my whistling skills um never a great Whistler but uh I heard that right and
If you hear that I mean that’s pretty distinctive that’s someone trying to get your attention and so you know okay you know someone around here and uh it kept it kept occurring and it seemed to be changing location like I couldn’t pinpoint it uh where it was coming from
And uh and so that was that was odd and I spent uh probably about five minutes walking around because I I was sure that that you know wasn’t it didn’t sound like I mean a mocking bird can do whatever it wants but it didn’t sound i’
Never heard a mocking bird do that and then you know move around and and and whatnot so I was again I was outside I was between the church and our Parish Hall and that’s about a a 30 foot uh uh span and uh you know just kind of going
Back and forth trying to figure out you know someone whistling at me I don’t think anybody’s around here um but we have you know and I’ve been here about nine years and we’re right on Highway 41 uh if you’re an Almond Brothers fan you’d recognize that uh we’re right on
Highway 41 and so we have a lot of transients we do have a lot of people that you know are riding a bike down to Florida or leaving Florida and you know just going up and down um uh the highway and uh we H I have seen uh evidence
Before of people who have who have camped out um I’ve you know found uh litter I found you know uh bars of soap and an old towel next to next to a hose um we have yeah uh we have exterior uh Outlets which uh is popular because they
Can recharge their their their phones while they’re uh on their Journey so it’s it’s not something I’ve seen a lot of but probably half a dozen over the last you know eight nine years uh of evidence of of you know someone had been you know probably stayed the night on
Our ground Seven Acres off of Highway 41 and um so I I you know I thought when I was looking around that that’s a possibility that there’s somebody you know who had who had you know uh stayed overnight um and might be in distress or something although I didn’t think it
Sounded like a distress call it sounded like trying to get my attention and it varied in in in Pitch but the ESS the essential sound was you know a a call to get to get my attention and I I certainly thought it was odd uh and I I’ve never spent five minutes walking
Around my Parish trying to find somebody because I I’m hearing you know uh whistling to to get my attention uh but you know the the the work of the parish priest must go on I had morning prayer uh in in a half an hour and I had Bible
Study after that so um after I felt like I had done all I could to to trace down the the source of that whistling I uh uh went into to the Parish Hall got set up went about the rest of my day uh no other occurrences nothing else odd
Happening so that’s the the Tuesday the 26th I believe uh the next Wednesday the 27th our Parish schedule is we have an evening mass at 6 PM so I usually come in after after launch um and so this is the 27th Wednesday and I do that I come
In uh about one and I’m working in my office you know just doing everything bulletins or whatnot and uh uh again I I hadn’t really much thought about the the whistling episode um but I look at my back window so I can see from my window
In the parish my back window uh in the Parish Hall I can I can see uh that someone’s at the barn uh and I recognize them my old Junior Warden and uh he and his wife you know work in the in the uh thrift shop in there and so it’s not
Uncommon I uh I saw that they were back there knew they were you know doing something for the thrift shop getting it uh you know ready it’s open on Fridays and Saturdays and uh so I saw them I wanted to take a break you know from from
Bulletins uh and and thought I’d go back there and and and just uh you know say hi and so I did and I I saw my my old Junior Warden and and uh and when I saw him I it it it just kind of popped in my
Mind because he and I had had before seen evidence of of you know transients uh you know um uh around the the parish ground and uh and so when I saw him I kind of thought oh yeah yesterday that was so odd and so I asked him I said did
You see any evidence around the Parish of someone uh having stayed here and camped out here and uh uh knowing that he would know essentially what I was talking about because we’ve seen that kind of evidence before he said no but you know that thing you buried I said uh
You know it took me a second you know that thing you buried out back I said you mean the sorum it looks kind of like the Chalice sorum he said he said yeah he said that that got dug up and thrown on the
Ground and uh and I said uh and I just I immediately actually in my mind kind of connected it to the day before I thought that’s not right um because uh you know just really quickly uh you know kind of going through all of the possibilities
None of the possibilities made a lot of sense to me of how that could have occurred um so I I I said well I want to go back go back there and I and look and see you know what this is and he he told me that it had happened between because he’d
Been back there the on Sunday afternoon and hadn’t seen it at least uh and if you go through the gate it’s actually it was fairly obvious if you go through the gate so he didn’t see it on Sunday but he did uh he he had seen it uh earlier
On Wednesday um so sometime between Sunday and Wednesday this this had occurred and so I I open the gate I go through and I look at the hole and I look at the where the sorum is and um and then I get down on my hands and
Knees and I the the hole is probably uh 24 in deep 36 Ines deep but um I’m looking to see if if there’s any evidence of of how this this hole was dug um either some sort of uh claw marks like a like a dog would leave um or you know the
Straight edged you know cutting of a of a shovel or a spade or something like that and I don’t see either one and the other odd thing is I don’t see any residual dirt it’s just a hole there’s no um loose dirt so you know if a dog
Does it he kicks it up behind him and you’ll have a little pile of of loose dirt or even if you’re using a shovel you’re going to have you know loose dirt somewhere but uh I couldn’t uh I couldn’t tell uh how that hole was made and uh
And I go to the sorum and and I start taking pictures because I’m immediately concerned um and the sorum has has been wrenched it’s peer it’s soft it wouldn’t take a lot of pressure but it is in fact uh wrenched and and bent um at at an odd
Angle one of the things I I I looked at immediately when I picked up the sorum was if the lid was still intact and interestingly enough uh a crucifix on it had been peeled back but was still on but the lid had the lid was was closed and
No evidence of it being opened and reclosed I it it it was sealed and and um uh because I had to actually you know get you know how you kind of get your fingernails underneath and to to pop it open and uh I was able to do that but it
Took some Force so I I I assumed that the the lid had not been opened um so what I do is I take this aoran back to my office and I uh I think I text the bishop that uh I I want to talk to him this e this evening
After Mass because I’ve got a six o’clock mass and uh and so I I leave the sorum now that’s been exhumed uh in my in my office and so what I do is I after Mass I go home I talk to the bishop and the Bishops we we talk through you know
The Providence of that item and uh the I I say I I just don’t know and then we start talking interestingly about uh the consecration of this ground and I say I don’t know you know if we have um had any sort of a uh a a blessing or you
Know beating of the bound s back back there back past that gate we don’t use that you know we own that property but we don’t we don’t use it for anything i’ I’d love to at some point you know uh uh um expand to back there but we’re we’re
Just not there yet um and so we we talk through those things and um and we we agree that uh that this could be uh you know something infernal um that this could be uh um some sort of demonic activity either associated with the sorum itself but as I told the
Bishop and I I never felt anything with that and it was in my office for eight years I never uh um I never felt that you know there was anything attached to to that item and I been in close proximity with it for for for a long time um or perhaps with this
Property and maybe that property you know back there um that that there was something attached to to to that um so uh I actually uh after the bishop and I I I asked the bishop if I could uh speak with a with a deacon who I knew
Has a lot of experience with this and has been experienced in a Deliverance Ministry um and so I asked the bishop for permission uh a mutual friend of ours if I could speak with that Deacon about this and he the bishop uh thought that that was a good idea and so um when
I got off the phone with the bishop this is still Wednesday night um the day that I have that I found the sorum um I text uh some of those pictures uh to the to the Deacon and he’s uh he uh called me immediately um without hardly any
Context or anything just from looking at the pictures of what had occurred and uh he he thought that um that this was demonic activity uh possibly um and and it’s certainly how I felt because I I couldn’t uh I I couldn’t rationalize how that uh sorum
Was exhumed uh I don’t know of a of an animal in Middle Georgia that’s attracted to peor um there was no smells about it that would have had meat or something I mean it it had been out of circulation for eight years and it had been you know properly cleansed and it
At at most it ever held was a was you know host um so there’s nothing to the smell that an animal would know exactly where to dig and to pull this up and the location of it as far as like having somebody I’ve I’ve never seen the the
Whole you know sometimes we we see homeless people around here I’ve never seen anyone back way back there um it’s always up around here where all the the lights are the water is the electricity there’s nothing back there but woods and uh uh so i’ I’d never seen anybody back there
And no one would know where to dig I I actually went and looked at where we had buried the Pascal candles just to see the P that area had been completely undisturbed and it was hard to tell maybe not uh impossible to tell if you knew exactly where to look that that
Because it it was a month later right so um that that area had been dug up but it was you know pretty uh difficult to tell even though I knew where where the Pascal candles were were dug so uh if if a person were to do it they would
Have had to have known where that was and I mean nobody in my Parish uh you know even has the time to do that or the desire or especially you know the handful of people that that had uh you know knowledge of of where that was that
Just doesn’t make any sense um so I spoke with the bishop I spoke with this Deacon and it was agreed that uh an exorcism around the parish grounds would be appropriate uh using the the the leonine uh minor exorcism and uh and I I felt you know I
Felt good about that and and you know it’s one of those things it’s it’s a great prayer It’s a Wonderful prayer and if there is something of a demonic activity um it it’s great to to pray this EX ex ISM around the grounds of the parish um and even if it’s not there’s
Nothing wrong with walking around your parish and praying and uh so it’s kind of win-win um so that was Wednesday night that was uh the the plan of the plan of action uh my my first thought was to wait till the weekend let’s you know it’s going to
Be hard to get anyone here to help me with an exorcism to to do these prayers to use to do everything that we wanted to do with incense and and holy water and and and uh and these things uh I didn’t want to you know drag people out
You know on a on a Thursday night uh you know all all of my parishioners work and and and everything so that was kind of in the back of my mind I’m going to try to see if people are available maybe Saturday morning and we’ll we’ll do this
We’ll walk around the parish we’ll we’ll say our prayers and we’ll we’ll have a little uh you know beating of the bounds uh type thing um uh A procession with prayer and incense uh but I didn’t really want to like super inconvenience anybody so I I
Uh Thursday morning I get to the I I get here to the parish and with that in mind you know I’m G to start this process start reaching out to to people and and uh uh telling them you know asking them if they could come and and participate I
Wanted my assisting priest uh I wanted my Deacon and I wanted my senior Warden especially well he’s a friend but he is a an Outdoorsman and I really wanted him to take a look at the whole because he he uh you know hunts animals with with a
Bow and arrows and he goes out and he stalks them you know so he’s a real Outdoorsman I I I I’m not I mean you know I that hole didn’t look like anything I had seen before but uh I wanted I wanted my my senior Warden to
Take a look at it too um so get here Thursday morning the same routine I go into uh the sacy put my cassic on I’m the only person here at the parish and then I head uh across the sidewalk to the um to the Parish Hall where my
Office is uh I start hearing uh the sound of wood cracking kind of like when uh you know Timber when you hear uh a tree fall or or crack in the middle or you know a big Branch um I start hearing these wood sounds from that exact area
From from behind the the the thrift shop there you’ve got the gate and then you’ve got kind of the woods and from there I start hearing that and uh you know okay this that’s odd and so I actually go and start walking in that direction and it starts getting really
Loud and um to the point that uh the noises weren’t corresponding to what I was visually seeing uh it sounded like the trees right in front of me and in fact it sounded to me like the beams in the barn were were busting and that’s kind of orally what I was
Hearing but visually I wasn’t seeing anything um and I you know in my spirit I felt that that was antagonistic I felt this is uh purposeful and um and I don’t want to wait till this weekend I want to see if if these men are available and I want to
Do this exorcism now because I I feel like this is um you know a a challenge Ing and menacing and so uh so I do I I get I get on the phone and I mean you know we’ve never done anything like this and so I I you know kind of self-consciously I
Suppose uh uh preface each phone call okay you might think this is crazy but I want to do an exorcism tonight and this is why um and to a man all of them said yes you know let’s do this let’s do this and so uh What uh had been recommended by uh
The bishop and the Deacon was to do this exorcism first um to use incense to use holy uh water blessed salt to go through each of the to go through the church every room in the church Parish Hall Thrift Shop uh first praying these prayers and procession and then to uh go
Along the boundaries of the parish outside and and uh and to do uh say these prayers while processing and with the crucifix um with a thoral and uh with an asperellum and a a basin for holy water and so that’s what the four of us uh did and um we also uh
Had well I should go back and and say that the sorum was in my office that night uh Wednesday night to Thursday I did bring it back into the church Thursday morning after uh after you know uh experiencing you know these odd sounds outside um and uh the bishop wanted me
To uh to uh use whole oil to crism made it and to uh uh have have that kind of re uh you know he gave me permission to reconsecrate it basically um and so I did that I and I I put a I put a veil over it and left it in our
Chapel and uh I went to the local the local uh Roman uh Parish they have a a bookstore and I I got 16 St Benedict medals from them and I brought them back and so now I guess uh at this point and I’d already called uh
The Men Who all agreed to come later on that evening at 5:30 and so now we’re probably about lunchtime about noon 1 and I’m here at the parish Again by by myself and um and I start preparing for for the exorcism uh by uh blessing and exercising the the water
And the salt so we have a a a a big container of of water and uh and some some blessed salt so I begin you know using you know the priest manual and going through all of that doing all that in in in the chapel and blessing the the
The metals the St Benedict medals um that we’re going to use after the exorcism and so I’m doing all this in my chapel and I do uh here at the doors of of the parish I’m I’m here in the church and actually I’m uh facing my Chapel
Right now it’s um and uh and I’m in here and the doors of the church start rattling like someone’s you know seeing if they can get in uh to the the church I’m the only only one here and I can even though it’s stinged Glass by shadows and whatnot I can usually tell
When someone has driven and parked in the parking lot I you know see the Shadows through the stain glass windows um and I was pretty sure that nobody was here and nobody had driven up and and I I thought this was you know a part of
What is going on is we’re preparing for this exercism and um the doors of the parish are are are rattling and and um and you know I I just felt like it was a purposeful distraction and so I I kept going about my business of preparing for
The exorcism the the the men uh showed up and we uh we met in the in the chapel I had everything prepared we did the confidor uh together and with Absolution and my assisting priest uh uh gave me Absolution and we we set we set out and
We we went through the buildings we went through uh the uh through the parish grounds um with this uh Leo the 13th right um of minor exorcism uh after that we went to uh the corners of each building into the corners of the parish grounds themselves and uh we prayed
And we uh we buried the the uh bless Medals of St Benedict um throughout the parish uh then we uh dug a deeper hole in a more secure place around the parish um and we reburied the sorum and that was the eve of molus and and one of the really
Interesting things about this and of course the melus you know uh epistle uh begins you know there’s war in heaven and uh you know Michael and his Archangel fought against the dragon and his Angel and you know the dragon prevailed not um is I heard from other
Priests uh that they had seen an uptick you know leading up to melus of uh of maybe spiritual activity um I don’t know I don’t know if anyone else has experienced that but I certainly it certainly wasn’t lost on me that we did we had the exorcism on ML mive and
Um from that moment on it it was peaceful uh one really interesting witness in testimony uh I told you the the thrift shop is open on Fridays and and uh Saturdays and they were open on you know melus on that Friday and uh a a woman came in and I I wasn’t back
There I was in my office but uh one of the ladies who a parishioner who works back there told me uh about this and she you know wasn’t aware of you know the exorcism I I didn’t you know it wasn’t something I broadcast or anything and it
Happened pretty quickly you know from a Tuesday to a Thursday but she came and told me that my parishioner who was working in the barn that a lady had come in that she hadn’t uh seen before and the lady had you know kind of looked around you know the parish grounds and
It was a it was a beautiful day that melus uh here in Middle Georgia and uh the woman commented uh that uh that it’s peaceful around here now um and uh and so my parishioner you know I you know it’s a nice compliment uh you know told me and I just thought
That was uh an interesting phrasing all things uh that had been occurring uh you know I could see you know saying it’s a nice day isn’t it or you know uh sure is a blue sky this morning but uh making an observation it was just you know another
One of those kind of uh odd things of um uh that that you know she would just feel the peace there um um the very next day uh so that’s kind of been that was that’s what happened and uh and again yes so since then that was melus
2023 uh since then uh no none of those incidents you know that occurred uh have been there and I’ll admit I mean I’ve been pretty hyper sensitive at times especially when I’m by my myself on the parish and it’s you know it’s night time maybe I’m you know closing up and it’s
After the evening mass or something I’m the only one here uh I never felt scared but I did feel I don’t know antagonized challenged um and uh and I have been hyper sensitive like the sounds you know what is what what is this what is this
And I haven’t I haven’t heard you know anything that that would make me you know there was the same pattern uh same you know kind of purposefulness I guess of of of what happened during that time um so uh I did write a report for
The bishop I wanted it to be on the dasis and file I mean after speaking with them because I I think it’s very uh possible that that other uh priests might encounter this uh might encounter something similar so I wanted to at least document uh uh you know while I
Was fresh in my mind what occurred and what we did and what the outcome was and so it could be a resource um for others uh and so so I did uh document everything sent in you know all the pictures that that I had taken uh uh for that
So in the final analysis I tried to you know it’s one of those interesting things everything that occurred could have a Perfectly Natural not Supernatural but Perfectly Natural explanation uh you could say something you know dog or you know dug that up it certainly didn’t look like it um it
Certainly doesn’t make sense that a dog would dig that up drag it 10 yards away Wrench It um and uh and leave it there that doesn’t make a lot of sense but you know it it’s possible the The Sounds you know the the whistling you know maybe a escaped uh you know uh
Parrot or something or mocking bird or something but it it didn’t it I don’t think so I um and again with with the the the crashing sounds in the woods and and the breaking of beam sounds you know when you’re in in an area with with buildings and a forest
You can get Echoes you can hear things that are occurring you know a long distance away uh so you certainly could you know see these things but uh you know for all of them to happen bam bam bam bam that I’d never experienced around my Parish at all and I’ve been here you
Know uh you know most days over the last nine years years but over those three days to experience things that I’d never experienced before uh was was um interesting so I um I it what I believe happened um you know there’s there’s um certainly different uh takes on it that would be
Possible I I believe that that um that back portion of our property which had never been which was fenced off never used for anything with the church um had not been blessed um or consecrated prior to me um and I I believe that when we buried that
Sorum and I I asked the bishop you know I was did I do something wrong here um I believe when we buried the sorum back there that something noticed that um this is a holy item again I didn’t know much about the Providence before but I I I treated it
As if it had been a consecrated sorum and I my intention was to bury it on graded ground um but I you know and it’s interesting you go back and you read you know the scripture especially I think of uh you know job one you know Satan you know
Comes up into the Heavenly courts and you know what have you been doing well I’ve just been walk you know going to and fro on the earth and so you know I certainly believe in you know demonic entities and these spiritual Powers um and I I think I think I think one of
Them came across this and it was an opportunity kind of crime of opportunity that for you know and you know we don’t know the the spiritual realm you know you see this in in in in in scripture and you see this in tobat you see it in uh Daniel uh you know you
See it in job there’s rules to the spiritual realm we don’t know know them we don’t we know some of them we know a part of them and of course the church has been given the sacraments and the sacramentals and and these tools and these prayers but we don’t know you know
The ins and outs of the rules but there you know there there’s there’s rules in the spiritual realm and I think that you know for whatever reason this uh this sorum you know attracted uh uh something uh a a a demonic uh entity and it was exhumed and then uh
You know kind of in a mocking fashion uh you know it was desecrated and uh and then I was kind of antagonized as the priest of the of the parish um that’s how I felt about it I told my wife about it wedes Wednesday night you know when I talked to the
Bishop and I spoke with the Deacon and I said I was telling her at that point it was the day before uh I was telling her you know about the whistling um and you know it hadn’t gotten to Thursday yet where I heard you know the the the crashing and
All of this and the shaking of the parish doors but so so far all I’d seen is the sorum exed and and the whistling I was I was telling I I couldn’t put my finger on it she she did the best job I said it you know was it was coming from
Different angles and I was walking around and kind of chasing my tail and but I I said it it seemed like there was an intelligence behind it and it seemed like it was trying to get my attention and she said she put it into better words than than I did she said it
Was like someone was saying I can see you but you can’t see me and I said that’s how I felt that morning um when I had uh you know when I was walking around my Parish going why who’s whistling at me so uh I I think um in in hindsight I think
You know uh that bearing that sorum um in that area that that area perhaps had not been uh properly blessed um even though you know according to the county it’s our property uh perhaps it it hadn’t been blessed uh I I I I just don’t know
Um but uh having you know done the exorcism it took about an hour and a half two hours to do to you know walk the entire all of the buildings to walk the the the parish grounds to um you know to walk then after the exorcism to to bury these
Um blessed Medals of St Benedict and to say prayers along the boundaries and borders of our Parish going all the way back all seven acres uh we went you know we tromped through the woods um uh you know H having done that and then reburied the the the sorum um you know
It’s been peaceful just like just like our visitor on Friday uh on mlus said this it’s peaceful here now and I agree uh it’s been peaceful here now uh since then so that uh that I think to the best of my memory which you know isn’t what it all what it used to
Be uh is is what occurred um so I hope I hope that covered I hope that covered it I hope that um brought everybody up to speed no I I think I think it did it’s a it’s a it’s a fascinating situation I mean one of the things I always like to
Point out is there’s there’s no such thing as neutral ground uh and in the case of your Parish I mean think we could think of that literally right there’s literally no neutral ground here that um what the church does is consecrate and set aside um you know the Kingdom of Heaven
In the world and the enemy does not want that to happen and I think uh you know we can see this like uh one of the things from TV and movies we we tend to associate sort of demonic activity with that very overt possession that we see in say like the
Exorcist um or movies like that um that’s not the only thing that happens right there’s there’s possession there’s oppression there’s infestation you can have a demonic fixation or Obsession that can lead you to uh greater engagement with those spiritual entities um demons can be associated with places and things and you know
Um we we encounter these sorts of realities in the world and maybe in the Western World we’re a little bit more just generally desensitized and so we kind of don’t see how significant the spiritual world is around us um but you know I I think the idea
That you know you went out to to um properly sort of you know retire a a consecrated item which is what we do with holy things they don’t they don’t go back into um sort of temporal or um you know uh mundane service after they have been used um in the
Church and yeah I think I think you doing that something responded and wanted to push back against the fact that you know the church the church is this um refuge and this the this place where Holiness is supposed to kind of radiate from um which is why we set aside the
Church consecrate it it’s Hallowed Ground U it’s an embassy of Heaven kind of here now it’s interesting it’s an interesting story and uh just to go back you know I talked about my uh my senior Warden I did have you know the other three men I
Wanted them all to to to get down and look at that hole and uh to a man and uh they’re all very you know Hunter you know we’re all from the south here uh you know hunters and everything to a man they they couldn’t uh explain uh how
That hole was made um or or what had made it and had ever seen a hole quite you know that was just no no residual dirt no markings one way or the other man nor Beast um uh they agreed so it wasn’t just you know F father Matt who doesn’t you know
Spend a whole lot of time Outdoors another thing that stood out as I was hearing your story father Matt is um just the kind of The Ordering of things and the and the situ ating you know your your process your method really I think is exemplary um when it comes to this you
Know first of all you know there’s I think there’s there’s a tendency to either um you know to say oh well those things don’t really happen anymore you know those things don’t really aren’t really those categories of the spiritual world don’t really obtain but then the opposite is to sensationalize and to you
Know say like oh there’s something hiding around every corner every Creek in the building is actually this thing and and it’s what what I what I observed in your account is a really is a remarkably measured response to this that um even in the course of a decisive
Action and conducting an exorcism um still left room like you just said I had every man to a man check out the hole to see if there was you know to see what they thought about this and subjecting it to second opinion subjecting this to Natural
Explanation um you know while not at the same time you know doing so in order to deny the existence of the the possibility that this was what was happening the the other dimension of that that stood out in your story was um you know something that that I think you
Know doesn’t get talked about enough when it comes to spiritual warfare or exorcism which is um you know the authority of your Bishop under which you placed yourself um and that’s a significant thing you know you you got on you got on the on the phone with your
Bishop right away and um asked his permission and set yourself under his author Authority and you know took his direction and you didn’t take this upon your shoulders um as a as a as an as an independent agent your you know our Ministries as priests you know they are
They’re United to the ministries of our Bishop and we are we you know we’re subject to them and and and we are submitted to them in in that way and um you know I think I think that there is a a it’s a case study in um making
Decisions of a grave matter um as a parish priest is is is letting the charism of our Bishop’s consecrations uh you know you know illuminate us and and and and to direct us in in all Godly matters and to be obedient to them in that I and then to seek out advice from
Someone who has experience in this it’s um it’s not often how I see I’ve seen in the past uh you know people treat the spiritual realm sometimes it’s just you know I went to I went to a Bible College where at the moment I was there there
Was a real fixation on the Demonic um and it was too often that um you know a sophomore undergraduate would just be like well let’s get some buddies from our dorm together and go do an exorcism on someone and it’s like um this is a really serious thing if we if we confess
That these things are real then we have to treat them um as real and Grave things um and they they demand that kind of serious treatment and that methodical treatment and I just that stood out and I I just I find it commendable so and and I think that our listeners could
Probably you know meditate on on that um and and consider that they participate in this economy of Grace and uh in their in their place in the church and uh and that those are real relations that come to Bear when it comes to credential decision making like this so I
Appreciated that about your story well thank you um well you’re you’re exactly uh right as far as you know it can be a preoccupation um I you know in my ministry as a priest you know you come uh of course uh you come across people uh who you know uh have you know
Concerns you know my my house haunted or or or or or this or that um and and some are you know serious concerns um we do have a chain of command and just like we were saying there’s uh rules to the spiritual world that we’re not 100% aware of uh you know
The church has tools and we have the sacraments and sacramentals and we have uh you know of course yes the bishop the diis and Bishop is you know the Exorcist of his dasis and he can delegate that he can have a a diis and you know Exorcist
Or but uh he is the the Supreme Exorcist of his own dasis um I I wanted to you know I didn’t want to sensationalize this I I I never um you know made a if anyone in my Parish asked or if it you know would come up
Naturally we talk about it but it’s nothing that I you know wanted to um you know get people you know um worked up or excited about uh that is one of the things I think about a spiritual warfare if if you will that um I I think the Demonic wants to
Distract um you know the the the ministry of a parish priest is to visit the sick and to care for you know the the Cure of Souls of of your parishioners and that involves going to the hospital that involves going to their homes that involves studying scripture that involves you know
Everything that a parish priest involves and and I think the Demonic sometimes uh would you know want to distract you and let’s you know let’s go off on this fanciful you know and just chase Your Tail um and uh so I’ve impressed I you know I’ve had uh you know uh men who
Have wanted to look into holy orders uh you know to perhaps uh you know uh become an aspirant or postulant and but you know H have something of a of a preoccupation with this and it’s like you know it’s it’s not as father kadon was saying you know the parish priest
It’s not the movies we’re not you know going and and you know Linda Blair and PE soup and all of this um it is it is going to the hospital and visiting the you know your your your 80-year-old parishioner who just had a HP replacement it is you know bulletins newsletters uh
Um it’s it’s those mundane things but that’s that’s the uh you know where we’re called and it’s not you know shouldn’t undersell it it’s just not you know uh the the sensationalistic you know uh things it’s it’s the it’s the trench work of of of the priest which is
You know to care for your parishioners and if in the care of your parishioners you have to uh you know do uh an exorcism or something like that again the church has you know the means and and the tools to do that but but uh um yes let’s not get distracted from from
Uh the daily uh uh you know Ministry that we’re called to it seems like in that too there’s um you know an analogy for um the parishioner as well you know sometimes I get asked in Parish Ministry you know okay how do I you know how do I prevent
You know oppression or fixation or possession from happening and generally you know the answer is you know be a be a proficient ordinary Christian you know um be regular in your receiving of the sacrament you know be regular in confession be regular in prayer um you know be you know self-examining we live
Live live a proficient Christian Life um and that is you know our baptisms are those is is really that that Exorcism of our lives and living out of that baptismal Grace uh in an ordinary way is that is the you know that that is the
Best and and and that covers most of the stuff right and um but I think you know your in your description of the priesthood it’s it’s similar it’s you know our ministry is is what is you know the and then Christian vocation is what
It is and when we are when we’re in that that’s that’s the place where life is and that’s the place where you know uh the the service of Our Lord who who gives us you know security and freedom is and um that’s a that’s a good word for all of
Us well father thanks so much for joining us this was a this was a really interesting um discussion I think um but this also leads us um maybe on a on a on a lighter note I guess than Parish exorcism this kind of takes us to our favorite section which is what we’re
Into um father Matt what have you been into you could it could be anything a board game movie TV show doing something with your family hiking whatever what are you into let’s see um boy I’d like to think of just something really super holy uh uh
I have been uh in the evenings I’ve I I’ve been uh binging uh uh Reacher on on Amazon that’s uh uh kind of interesting uh he he takes care of business I guess against the bad guys and so that’s that’s uh that’s interesting and um and
I’ve been looking to see uh you know now that we’re septo aasa uh looking to see see what uh I want to uh recommend to others and for myself or for Holy reading and so uh I’ve been looking at uh Dorothy Karen the living touch um and
Uh I uh I commend that to to to people um again the tools of the church the sacrament that healed her um and so I’ve got that on my desk right now just reread it for the first time in a few years just a little little book um and so that’s what I’m
Into nothing wrong with the TV show here or there um I think half the time when we say what we’re into it typically is something very like mundane and ordinary uh father Hayden what are you into yeah I I’ll follow father Matt’s uh template there and uh say first that um
I’ve been rewatching um the old um show from the mids uh house um which is Hu Lor um I never really watched the entire series straight through and had only seen sporadic episodes but uh watching it uh it’s it’s funny to kind of look back at the mids and particularly this show has
A recurring um visit to religious figures religious characters that come on the show and generally their props for uh hil’s um very skeptical um character to just smash to Pieces um I I do find it interesting to to think back to that era and to the um anxiety around
Rationalism and like and and scientism um that that I kind of I I heard you know in the Christian sphere um and and it made me sort of long for those days because uh it seems like what we’re kind of confronting in a in a cultural moment
Right now is a lot of the opposite of that it’s it’s not really like the the questions of Science and Faith so much as it’s like it’s like the faith versus a kind of recursive inward experience uh and and it’s difficult to pin down and I
I just thought about like oh wow this this this feels dated now even though it’s only been about 15 years since it came out and uh this kind of conflict on display kind of rang with a little bit of a dated Vibe it’s been it’s been fun
It’s it’s well scripted and H Lor is a great actor so uh it was was fun it’s been fun to be in that uh and then like Father Matt I have been thinking about you know kind of what to focus on during uh lent and to recommend and I’ve been
Re revisiting um Bishop Jeremy Taylor’s writings uh lately and um and that’s been a real um a real wonderful Journey um the one that I’m I’ve been rereading through in this last couple weeks has been wholly dying um and I think I might recommend that one to a few people for
Lent uh this year here um but it’s just a beautiful um meditation on on the Christian Liturgy of dying uh and so and what you know how to prepare for a good death um in Christ so those are some things on my my plate I’ll I’ll stick with the
Theme um so TV show and then a book um I’ve mentioned this before on the podcast um but Margaret an and I are watching the newest season of all creatures great and small um I have a really deep love and and sort of nostalgia for the older version of All
Creatures um also the books and things I my mother and I both really love those stories and so we connect with them and I grew up watching them so when the new season or the new series came out I was really excited and it has not disappointed it is fantastic start to finish
Um it’s it’s like a fun funny wholesome sort of experience um but it also deals with some really interesting questions and some really heavy um social cultural personal issues and I think they do it a in a really uh interesting way sort of like Call the Midwife um sort of engages
With something very heavy but it’s also very uh posit POS and kind of shows like like that have a have a soft spot in my heart so um been watching that and enjoying it a lot and then um it’s sort of a similar way I I wasn’t doing it
Specifically for the purpose of figuring out like Linton reading or anything um but it’s kind of turned turned into that uh I I regularly go back to imitation of Christ it’s sort of like a yearly read for me um so Thomas kass’s imitation of Christ and
This year I was sort of reading through it and decided that I wanted to go back and read uh St Francis the sales introduction to The Devout life uh which I haven’t picked up since maybe my first year in seminary um one of one of my favorite books it’s really really good
But I just haven’t picked it up in a while and so picked that back up and I think that is now going to become my sort of Linton book um so I’m I’m taking it little pieces at a time because I know my my impulse is to just
Like sit down and try to blast through the whole thing and finish it and I’m like no no I need to kind of take this in small mouthfuls rather than um sort of gorging myself on it uh but yeah so that’s that’s kind of where that’s what we’ve been up to and
We’re we’re sort of patient ly waiting the arrival of uh little baby mline to the fold which could be any day now um so I think in some ways that’s what’s occupying most of my thought right now is uh getting ready for that and kind of how things are going to change
But if you think if you think it’s occupying you now just wait like a freight train right this is this is the Calm before the storm but a blessing of course but uh we uh I tell you I tell you what we we we we we timed it
Perfectly uh by you know Ash Wednesday in the beginning of lint being like the due date so here you go for Easter here’s a baby didn’t didn’t really think about that one well congratulations in advance you’re in my prayers that’s that’s wonderful just thank you yeah we’re we’re excited we’re
Excited well listeners um thank you for listening and watching our episodes if you would like to follow us on Facebook or Twitter you can uh like And subscribe on YouTube uh we’re very close to a thousand subscribers there so think we’re only 150 some OD away so if you’re
Interested please do uh subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave us a rating and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts and if you’d like to join our Discord or uh get some access to some additional content um like during the Summers and things uh you can join
The communion of patreon saints for just $5 a month father Matt will you give us a blessing to close yes the Lord be with you and with thy spirit let us pray the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you
The Lord lift his countenance upon you and give you peace both now and ever more amen amen
3 Comments
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Wow Fathers this was amazing- I’m praying for you all❤️
Which prayer did he use?