The Shroud of Turin: Photograph of the Resurrection – Part 2: History of a Miracle (2024 Updates)

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In this special two-part lecture series, Duran Smith talks about the science and history behind the Shroud of Turin. Come and see why it’s often called a “photograph of the resurrection of Jesus.” This mysterious artifact has fascinated people for centuries. The miraculous image on the Shroud has proven to be scientifically unexplainable. Could this be the actual burial cloth of Jesus Christ in which He was resurrected? Part 1 covers exciting new scientific dating results, and Part 2 will reveal new historical insights into the Shroud’s journey from Jerusalem to Turin.

00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:04 Known History of the Shroud from 1355 to 1978
00:04:42 Summary of Miraculous Findings from STURP 1978
00:09:58 Map of Shroud History Geography
00:11:41 Jesus in the Gospels
00:12:59 The Shroud in the Gospels
00:16:05 The Shroud in the 1st Century: Jerusalem to Antioch
00:32:18 The Shroud in the 2nd-4th Centuries: Antioch and Edessa
00:44:32 Art Depicting Jesus from the 1st-4th Centuries
00:46:44 The Shroud in the 4th-6th Centuries: Antioch to Cappadocia
00:52:42 The Pantokrator
00:57:02 6th-8th Centuries: Constantinople and the Image of God Incarnate
01:04:05 The Legend of King Abgar of Edessa
01:07:54 8th-12th Centuries: Two Images Hidden in Byzantium
01:12:01 13th Century: Stolen into Legend
01:17:25 The Missing Years: The Besancon Hypothesis
01:20:10 The Missing Years: The Knights Templar Hypothesis
01:21:33 The Veil of Veronica
01:26:09 The Holy Shroud
01:29:28 1899: The First Photograph of the Shroud
01:30:46 1978: Not Made with Human Hands
01:36:09 Objections: But We Don’t Know What Jesus Looked Like
01:37:34 Maybe Rocks Emit Radiation
01:38:10 Maybe Leonardo DaVinci Did It
01:38:34 But His Beard Was Pulled Out
01:40:09 But His Face Was Beaten
01:41:20 But the Man Looks European
01:42:50 But Long Hair is a Sin for Men
01:43:57 But God Forbids Idolatry
01:45:42 But Medieval Letters Say It’s a Hoax
01:47:19 But the Gospels Mention Strips of Linen
01:50:06 The Conclusion
01:53:00 A Fading Image
01:54:00 Closing Prayer

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[Applause] Thank you everybody for being here I think you’re really in for a treat tonight is part two of the Shroud of Turin photograph of the resurrection of Jesus last time we talked about the science behind the Shroud of Turin and tonight we’re going to talk about the history

Behind the Shroud of Turin honestly we have a lot to talk about tonight if you were here last time you were probably thinking I had no idea there was so much to learn about the shroud of Turan and uh you’re justified in thinking that but you’re going to find that tonight there

Is just as much information in the history of it so I did explain to you though last time at our last meeting that the history of the Shroud of Turin the official history of it that we know is is absolutely true is absolutely connected to the to the

Shroud that we currently possess began in 1355 when the desar family began to display what they were calling the holy shroud to the public in ly France they were doing it to make some money actually because um uh Jean D’s husband had died so she was she was

Trying to make some money by displaying the Shroud but they never disclosed where they got the Shroud so that’s the beginning of the mystery is where did they get this thing and then of course a century later the Shroud was moved to shamur France a century after that that

Chapel in France almost burned down which did caused some fire damage to the corners of the Shroud where it where the way that it was folded up which is where you see some of these patches that are on it now they look kind of triangular when you look at the whole thing those

Are the burn marks from that fire in 1532 then in 1578 the Shroud was moved from France to Italy to the city of Turin into the Cathedral of Turin and that is where it has remained ever since 1578 very very rarely ever taken out of the cathedral and I don’t think it’s

Been taken out out of the cathedral now since um probably World War II there was a a a brief moment there where they hid it from the Nazis so that the Nazis wouldn’t confiscate it and then in 1899 the Shroud was photographed For the First Time by an Italian man named

Sopia and of course he realized that when he took a picture of the Shroud he saw the photo negatives of the Shroud and realized that when you look at the the photo negative of the shroud it becomes a photo positive meaning that the Shroud itself is a photo negative

And that began what we now call sindonology which is the study of the Shroud of Turin it has its own name so we have this cloth the Shroud of Turin and it for those who may not know it has a mysterious image of Christ on one side

Of it that is the front image and another mysterious image on the back of it which is the back side of Christ and it is supposedly the Shroud that Jesus Christ was buried in and wrapped vertically in in the Tomb now nobody knows how the image got onto the Shroud

For sure however in 1978 the Shroud of Turin research project was granted 120 hours to do a whole bunch of scientific experiments on the shroud what they found was absolutely remarkable they discovered and here’s a summary of what we talked about last time they discovered these 10 miraculous

Details of the Shroud and that and this is at a minimum uh the image itself is a photo negative we already learned that when sopia photographed it in 1899 which is already remarkable because in the history of art there is no such thing and then number two the image is

Composed osed of yellowed fibers that are hyper aged from radiation so the image itself is not made of blood and it’s not made of paint it’s not made of uh sweat or anything that could stain the cloth itself it is simply composed of hyper aged fibral

From the top of the Shroud which is the other remarkable thing the image is only on the topmost fibral of the topmost fibers on one side of the Shroud which is an absolute Miracle it doesn’t bleed through to the other side number four the shading of the image is accomplished

By the polistic proximity of the image fibral to each other meaning that the lightness and darkness of the image is not dependent on the lightness and darkness of the fibral that have been affected but it is dependent upon the proximity of those fibral to each other just like one of those drawings where

It’s made up of just dots the closer the dots are the darker that part of the picture seems to appear that is how the image is composed on the Shroud of Turin number five the image produces three-dimensional data when digitally analyzed in a in a computer which is actually something that a regular

Photograph does not do which means there is something unique about the properties of the Shroud that you don’t find in a regular photograph number six the image was projected vertically from the body through empty space onto the Shroud not by contact with the body the imagees weight independent so what

This means is that however the Shroud was wrapping the man there are parts of the image that could not have been touching his body at the time that the image was made which means that parts of the image were projected through empty space from the body onto the cloth itself when the

Image was made explain that number seven the image reveals that the body of the man was in rigor mortis when the image was projected onto the Shroud rig mortis is one of the beginning processes of well when when somebody dies when when a living organism dies it will sometimes

Go into R mortis Rigamortis only applies between 2 to 4 days after death so the fact that the image shows that the body was in roris and that it had stiffened uh means that it had stiffened in into the position of somebody who had been crucified except

That the arms and the legs are tied together all right number eight the blood stains are real human blood they are type AB positive with Y chromosomes which means it was a man a human man number nine the blood stains themselves contain serum fibrin and white blood

Cells from Fresh open wounds trying to clot which is only visible with ultraviolet light so this means if you’ve ever scraped your elbow or your knee by like falling off your bicycle like I did when I was a kid if you scrape it bad enough it actually

Starts to secrete this kind of gooey clear substance that’s serum that’s trying to help the blood clot because it’s such a big open wound well that only is found on open wounds that are fresh which means that the man who bled onto the Shroud had Fresh open wounds

From being tortured the blood was not just applied to the Shroud and if a medieval hoaxer did this they there’s no way that they could have known about that serum because they didn’t know about that stuff back then moreover they wouldn’t have been able to see it anyway because it’s only

Detectable with ultraviolet light so rather remarkable and number 10 the blood stains are physiologically accurate for a death by crucifixion including the nail wound which are through the wrists not the palms and the scourging that’s evident on the body the crown of thorns that was clearly around

The head and the spear piercing that Jesus received from Roman soldiers in his side so you can see that there’s extra blood on that side wound which is where a lot of the serum was found so these are the miraculous details that we discussed last time and

If you want more details about all of these big words then then you’ll have to watch part one believe me it’s it’s it’s a ride there’s a lot to it but tonight what we’re going to do is we are going to try to figure out where was the Shroud before 1354 1355 yeah

1355 where was it before then if this is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus then it had to have somehow got from Jerusalem to France and then of course to Italy but we know how it got to Italy so how did it get from Jerusalem to France geographically those things are

Kind of far away so here is a basic map of what we’re of the geography that we’re going to be exploring tonight this story that we’re going to be trying to tell about how the shroud got out of Jerusalem so here’s Jerusalem down here this is where Jesus’s entire Ministry and his death

And Resurrection occurred most of the Christians also established themselves in Antioch and this is actually mentioned in the book of Acts Antioch as the book of Acts says is where the Christians were actually first called Christians that was where the name Christian began and then you have the city of

Adessa which isn’t too far from Antioch then you have this region here of Camana that sort of spreads between adessa and Constantinople up here and inside this region is where a lot of the biblical the biblical New Testament Epistles were written so galatia which is going to be

Relevant tonight is right here in the middle and Ephesians I mean Ephesus is farther over here which is sort of where John ended up so this is where a lot of those letters were written at the time and then of course uh Athens is right here which is in Greece here’s

Rome in Italy and then here is Turin where the Shroud currently is and of course when it first popped up it popped up in ly France which was way up here then it came down to the shamur uh chapel and then came over to Turin oo is

Where the sedium of oo is which uh I will mention again later but we don’t have as much to say about the sedium tonight banun will only be relevant at one little one little portion of the presentation so this is the general map and I will come back to this map later

So y’all can see where the movement is is going all right so we all know about Jesus I hope we all know about Jesus I hope you all know Jesus personally like I do but there is a lot to know about Jesus of course he walked on water his

Disciples saw him transfigured with Moses and Elijah he raised his friend Lazarus from the dead and he was known for arguing with the Pharisees arguing with the religious leaders of the time and uh getting in trouble with them because Jesus was claiming to be God incarnate

God In the Flesh which to the Pharisees was Blasphemous which ended up getting Jesus crucified by them and the Romans so on April 7th 30 ad J Jesus was crucified he was beaten by Roman soldiers he was wrongfully tried and convicted he was whipped with a Roman

Flagrum a crown of thorns was put on his head he was forced to carry his cross he was crucified through his hands and his feet he hung on the cross for 6 hours and he died at 3:00 p.m. and after he was dead he was pierced with a Roman

Spear through his side we all know this story this happened in 30 ad some people say 33 ad but most people say 30 and I’m in favor of 30 as well all right so what that means is that evening a bunch of Jesus’s disciples and his followers buried him they buried him

In the Tomb of Joseph of ARA who was a rich man and Nicodemus was also there who was a a a friend of Jesus’s and this is what it says about when they Buri Jesus so in in Mark 15 it says then Joseph of PHA brought bought

Fine linen took Jesus down and wrapped him in the linen and he laid him in a tomb then Matthew wrote when Joseph had taken the body he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth and laid it in his new Tomb note that it says a lenen cloth not

Linen cloths just a linen cloth in Luke it says then Joseph of artha took it down wrapped it in linen and laid it in a tomb and then in John again it says they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen cloths with the SP vies as is

The burial custom of the Jews so you can see that this burial cloth is mentioned in every single one of the gospels now we all know if you’ve read the Bible that the gospels are different in some respects but for some reason this burial cloth is mentioned in every single one of the

Gospels well on the third day something remarkable happened and the man that they buried in that that tomb was not there on that morning when they went to go find him to finish preparing his body for burial and he was seen by his disciples including Mary Magdalene and

This is one of my favorite paintings I always included in this presentation because I just I just love this painting so much not quite an accurate depiction of the Shroud or the sedium but still a really beautiful picture all right that day was April 9th 30 ad which was the resurrection of

Jesus Luke says Peter arose and ran to the tomb and stooping down he saw the linen cloths Lying by themselves and then John wrote and he stooping down and looking in saw the linen cloths lying there then Simon Peter saw the linen cloths lying there and the handkerchief

That had been around his head not lying with the linen cloths but folded together in a place by itself all right so now they have discovered these linen claws are there in the Tomb now if you continue reading the New Testament nothing else is told to us about what happened to these claws

I suppose it depends on what you might think was on them whether or not they would want to keep them if you didn’t know anything about the Shroud of Turin you might assume well they were just some bloody claws they might have just thrown it away but probably the more they came to

Understand about Jesus’s crucifixion and him dying for our sins they they may have actually kept it so you know there’s there’s a good reason to think that it kind of depends on what Jesus said to them after he resurrected after all all right so what happened to the

Burial Linens as I said we aren’t told in the Bible what happened to them so we kind of have to rely on other sources that we don’t trust as scripture but we can analyze them to see if there’s any historical validity to them so we have

To take some of these Legends with a grain of salt but what’s really interesting when you get into this is you start to find that there were a lot of Legends a lot of Legends about what happened to these burial cloths why are they so interesting what’s so interesting about

Them so keep that in your head so for example one of our early uh Gnostic Gospels the gospel of Peter says Joseph of ARA took the Lord and washed him and wrapped him in linen and brought him unto his own sepulture his own tomb which is called The Garden

Of Joseph and then in the the gospel of galel which is another you know it wasn’t actually written by galel who’s mentioned in the book of Acts it says pilate took the wrappings Pontius Pilate took the wrappings that is to say the pieces of linen with which Jesus was

Shrouded and he wept over them and embraced them with joy and what’s really interesting is that later in this story which was written sometime in the the late 200s they actually find the body of one of the thieves who was crucified with Jesus and pilate actually orders

That the thief be wrapped in the Shroud and placed in Jesus’s tomb in order to try to resurrect him and it actually works so they wrap one of those thieves in the Shroud in this burial shroud and they stick it in Jesus’s tomb supposedly supposedly it brings this

Thief back to life now obviously that doesn’t sound like a story we can put a whole lot of weight on but what’s interesting is that you’ll note that there’s something miraculous people were believing about this burial shroud it seems to have had healing healing powers at least according to these early

Legends and you’re probably wondering well if that was the case then why didn’t the the apostles and the disciples mention it anywhere well just hold on to that thought for a minute all right another really interesting reference is from a woman named St Nino who’s a highly regarded

Saint from the mid fourth Century she wrote this really interesting bit which is not like we this is not a gnostic writing we know that like this is from an actual like Orthodox Christian who was writing what she believed was history she said they they found the

Linen early in Christ’s tomb with her pilate and his wife when they found it pilate’s wife asked for the linen and went away quickly to her home in pontis and she became a believer in Christ sometime afterwards the linen came into the hands of Luke the Evangelist the

Author of The Gospel of Luke who put it in a place known only to himself so he’s hiding it now they did not find the sedium the handkerchief that had been around Jesus’s head but it is said to have been found by Peter who took it and

Kept it so Peter has the the hankerchief now but we know not if it has ever been discovered and she also says for the record that the crosses are buried in the city of Jerusalem though no man knows in what place when it shall please God they also shall appear in an

Alternative translation of this passage it says daily I learned about the dispensation of Christ Our God about how he was martyred and regarding where the winding sheets of Our Lord were pilate’s wife had requested the grave shroud and believed in Christ she went to her home

In pontis after some time it fell to the Evangelist Luke who knew what she had done they say that Peter had taken with him the veil so the veil is being referred to as the sedium the sedium and the veil are the same thing that’s going to be important later

So hang on to that y’all we are taking a uh a a very brisk jog across 1300 years of History here tonight so just just buckle up all right so according to Nino Luke ended up with the Shroud and Peter ended up with the handkerchief all right now we don’t have

Any copies of the Gospel of the Hebrews anymore it’s only quoted in a few places we know that it’s not early we know that it’s probably not authentic but it is representative of some of these late stories that are being passed around Christendom at the time so late 4th

Century probably and it says when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest he went to James and appeared to him so once Jesus had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest he went to his brother James and appeared to him who was the servant

Of the priest let’s talk about that in just a minute then in the gospel of Nicodemus it says and this is from the the mid fifth century they did what was customary for the body with white linen and placed it in the Tomb how did they know what color

The linen was I am Jesus this is Jesus appearing to Joseph of ARA according to this I am Jesus whose body you Joseph of ARA did beg from pilate and you did clothe me with clean linen and did put a napkin on my face and he carried me away

And showed me the place where I laid him and the linen cloth was lying on it and the napkin for his face and I knew that it was Jesus so this Gospel of Nicodemus is again making a big deal out of this uh white linen that was used to bury Jesus

In so lots of interesting Legends surrounding this now who is the servant of the priest that is an interesting question because in the Bible there’s only one character who’s described as the servant of the high priest and his name was malchus and he was the uh

Soldier who got his ear chopped off by Peter and then Jesus healed his ear right as he was getting arrested so according to the gospel of the Hebrews as quoted by St Jerome the servant of the priest malchus was the one who was given the Shroud now why would that be

The case well supposedly uh he would have also been one of the ones set to guard the tomb as well so uh who kept the burial Linens what can we make from all these Legends well I’m not going to go through all of this with you except to say that the best

Option it turns out is probably Luke the servant of the priest was probably malus but we really don’t have any reason to think that it was him who kept it and we do have some interesting suggestions from Christian history that pilate and his wife became Christians which

Would be really encouraging to hear but we don’t have any definitive good sources for that so it’s possible that somebody was just taking two remarkable um things that they had heard from somewhere and just put them together nevertheless out of all of these possibilities it does seem that Luke is

Probably the most likely one to have received the Shroud at the very least maybe not the the sedarian maybe not the veil but uh at the very least the Shroud and there is a reason for that and the reason is because as we’re about to see it seems like the Shroud probably made

Its way up to Antioch out of Jerusalem and Luke was from Antioch so if anybody was going to take the Shroud to Antioch it probably would have been him and Plus St Nino said that he was the one who took it and hid it so if you’re

Wondering why is the Shroud hidden well we still don’t know why it was hidden why it was being kept a secret but we do know that according to St Nino Luke was the one who had it and he was the one who put it in an unknown place all right

So let’s take a look I want to show y’all the travels of the disciples you probably thought about this while you were reading the New Testament but never really had it Illustrated to you in any specific way Peter uh right after the resurrection between between 30 to 48 ad

He probably did a lot of traveling that that seems to be the case he traveled from Jerusalem to Antioch through galatia to Corinth which is over here and then back to Jerusalem for a Time eventually he came back to Jerusalem I mean he probably came back to Jerusalem

Several times in 50 ad he seems to have at least traveled to Antioch and somewhere between 50 to 64 ad of course he traveled to Rome where he was imprisoned and martyred around 68 ad now there is a question in at least Catholic Doctrine whether

Peter went to Rome before 50 ad in these First Years between 30 to 48 ad I’m not sure about that myself I for me personally it’s still up in the air so I’m not really sure but regardless is it possible that Peter and everybody with him were taking the shroud with them and

And showing it to people secretly in some of these places they didn’t want to wave it around at everyone obviously it’s you know it’s a it’s something extremely valuable especially if you know they could see the image on it at the time which I think that they

Probably could so this is the area where the Shroud would have been seen by certain select Christians probably now John’s travels were very similar uh except that after 70 AD John because 70 AD is when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans John fled to Ephesus so he came

Over here which is probably where he wrote his gospel because it was written later than than the other gospels and it’s also probably where he wrote his other Epistles and then of course he was exiled to the island of Patmos which is right off the coast of Ephesus here uh

And he probably wrote Revelation around the year 95 ad so that was where the disciples ended up so however the Shroud is getting is getting around it’s it’s in the hands of someone who is making these rounds all right so it is possible that Peter and maybe John they possible that

They Carried the Shroud up to Antioch where Paul later disputed with Peter over the Gentiles in 50 ad and that’s in Galatians Chapter 2 I think so they he would have at least got over to galatia but Peter would not have taken the Shroud with him to Corinth or to Rome

Because there was a lot of unrest in those places so it’s very unlikely that it would have ended up going that far west however if they did take it up to galatia there’s a clue to this that’s kind of interesting which is that in Galatians 3:1 unbelievably there might

Be a veiled reference to the Shroud in this verse Paul is rebuking the Galatians for starting to lose their faith and he refers back to something that was shown to them at a previous time before Paul got to them so what he says is oh foolish Galatians who has

Bewitched you that you should not obey the truth before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified now you’ve probably just read right over that that verse every single time but if you start digging into the Greek the Greek word for portrayed is prog grafo and in this verse it

Indicates a kind of marking not a kind of writing but a kind of marking there are other words for writing and Paul says that the Galatians saw this with their eyes among them so that doesn’t sound like a mere letter that sounds like something that was picked up and

Shown to a group of people which is not something you do with a you don’t show a letter to a group of people everybody has to read it on their own right so it’s a possibility it’s not specific but if they were trying to keep the Shroud a

Secret this is probably the way that they maybe would have talked about it that it was a prograph it was some kind of marking some kind of inscription not just a letter and galatia is close to Antioch and it was along Peter’s missionary route to Corinth and then over to Rome

So when was it in galatia when would the Galatians have seen it it would have been before Paul got to them which would have been in those early years when Peter was there so we have this possibility here this this is just dealing with first century who who’s got

It maybe Peter took it up there at some point but then somehow it ends up in the hands of Luke at some point as well and of course Luke was a traveling companion of Paul’s but Paul and Peter were martyred between 64 to 68 ad so by 68 ad

Unfortunately the two giants of the church Peter and Paul were were gone and I’m sure sure that the church was probably was probably a little scared well we have another reference from this time period that comes from St aanus who was the bishop of Alexandria in the 4th

Century he says that in the year 68 ad and we don’t know exactly where he got this information but he says that in the year 68 ad an image of our Lord and savior at full length was taken from Jerusalem to Syria Syria is where Antioch is

And the reason why was because there were growing hostilities between the Jewish zealots and the Romans in Jerusalem so Antioch was a safe haven for the Christians that makes perfect sense that if everything was wrong in Jerusalem that it needs to go to Antioch right so again we don’t know where

Athanasius got this information but he says it was an image of our Lord and savior at full length that is what the shroud of Turan is it is an image of our Lord and savior at full length both sides of him in fact his front and his back so who is the one

Who carried it in 68 ad from Jerusalem to Antioch well it could have been John but Again Luke seems the most likely person to transport the Shroud to Antioch because it was his hometown but then Luke was martyred in 93 ad so it couldn’t have stayed with him

For very long then of course in 70 AD Rome sacked Jerusalem so there’s absolutely no going back to Jerusalem at that point perhaps for some Christians a little later but but definitely not for the Shroud it would not have been safe all right so that’s our rough estimates about what happened to the

Shroud in the first century as you can tell there are some pretty interesting details here and we can make some really interesting inferences but I promise you it is going to get better so the Christians have been scattered now out of Jerusalem and they’re mostly scattering up here to

Antioch note that Antioch is uh close to Essa here and again it’s close to Galia over here so all of this makes sense that it was would have been very easy for the Christians to travel along these routes to show the Shroud of Turin to certain people but still keep it under wraps

Probably all right well in 135 ad the emperor desecrated All the known holy sites in Jerusalem unfortunately including golgatha and Christ’s tomb which is why to this day we’re still not entirely sure where those landmarks are I mean we have some good Clues but we just genuinely can’t say for sure

Because they were completely desecrated right there at the beginning of the 2 Century well the Shroud was still likely safe in Antioch though and we have this really interesting inscription from the late 2nd Century what happened was the king of adessa now remember adessa is very close to Antioch he converted to

Christianity between 177 and 189 ad well he then transformed adessa into a Christian City and he requested permission from the pope at the time Pope itharius he requested permission to be baptized well the bishop of hieropolis at the time his name was aerius he was

The one who was probably well he he was the one who was sent to King abgar in adessa probably to baptize him and in this inscription of aerus which is attributed to him by his hand although this is a cast of it this is not the actual thing but this is attributed to

Be to have been written by aerus himself it records his travels of when he was traveling from Antioch to adessa now what we have to keep in mind here is that the Christians were being persecuted quite heavily so they had to use code and we’ve come to call this

Code the discipline of the secret what this means is that the Christians were using imagery and metaphors to discuss the things that they believed and we all were’re all already aware of one of the symbols that they used at that time which was the fish symbol in order to identify each other

One Christian would draw one half of the fish symbol and then the other Christian would draw the other half and that way they would both know that they were both Christians so the fish came to symbolize Christ also the word ichus in Greek which is the Greek word for fish has a

Uh an acronym in Greek that spells out something like uh Jesus Christ’s Lord and savior of the Earth or humankind or something like that have that on in some other presentation so that’s why the fish represented Christ so with that in mind mind when you read the inscription

Of aerus here what he says is that he was given probably in Antioch a fish of exceedingly great size which possessed wine of great virtue that was mingled with bread now again this is vague but they’re speaking in code obviously he was not given a giant fish that was

Covered in wine and covered in bread that’s a little weird so this is a symbol for something could it be the Shroud the wine would be the blood stains and mingled with bread would be the image of the body well it’s very possible that he

Took the Shroud with him on his trip to adessa uh and he probably showed it to King abgar which is going to play into a legend that we’re going to talk about a little later on so keep that in mind so it seems like people had the shroud and it seems like

They were toing it around and showing it to people but only to certain people well uh not long after that from the year 220 ad around the year 220 ad we have a a a poem that was written called The Hymn of the Pearl and this this poem was written in

Adessa and it was likely written by a gnostic named bardan and he wrote this hymn from the perspective of Thomas the Apostle and you can find it in the Gnostic book the acts of Thomas but what he ends up describing here is that in in in the

Poem The Apostle Thomas is describing a cloth that was shown to him in a vision and he’s describing this cloth uh in a very peculiar way so these are excerpts from that poem where he says I saw my image on my burial garment like in a mirror myself facing outward and myself facing

Inward as though divided yet one likeness to be two and yet one likeness for one sign of the King was written on them both and the image of the king of kings was embroidered and depicted in full all over it all right so at first you think well

That doesn’t sound like shroud but then you get to the end and you’re like oh yeah actually that does kind of sound like the Shroud it has the image of the king of kings embroidered and depicted in full all over it now again the the reference here is a bit veiled because

They’re still discussing it in terms of their in in terms of the discipline of the secret but you can see that you might have references here to the image on the Shroud the front image uh the back image the fact that it’s on a single cloth and that it’s a double

Image and it is an image of the king of kings so very interesting evidence there you can actually read it’s not it’s not very long you can read the entire Hymn of the Pearl on Wikipedia probably best to look up alternative translations too so um but yeah it’s not it’s not very

Long all right so that’s from 220 ad well from the end of the second Century into the beginning of the 4th century Christian persecution intensifies unfortunately and also what starts happening during this time is that iconography becomes extremely prohibited so in other words Christians started to believe that it was sinful to have

Images of God around images of Jesus as well because Jesus is God so a lot of Christians started tossing out the art and the the illustrations and things like that so obviously if somebody found the Shroud they would probably think that this thing shouldn’t exist which

Means that what ends up happening is it seems like the Aryans who were considered Heretics it seems like they were the ones who were probably guarding the Shroud during this time and Antioch was where the was where the Aryans were uh taking precedence at that time they embraced iconography they

Didn’t have any problem with it and we won’t go into what the Aryans believed and you know why Aras was exiled from Antioch for this uh heresy that he invented but uh I will say I mean the idea is not compatible with Orthodox Christianity so these people were were definitely uh theologically speaking

Heretics but yeah so there’s a lot of war going on here we do have a detail from this time period this was when the church historian uus was writing and he has this really interesting detail about Peter he says that Peter fortified with Divine armor bore the costly merchandise of the light of

Understanding from the East to those in the west announcing the light itself an alternative translation is the precious merchandise of the light that had been made manifest I’ve tried to do a little more digging into this quote here to me it’s it’s it’s up in the air whether or not

This could potentially be a reference to the shroud from this period of history but it’s possible it’s possible because they were speaking so secretively at that time what did what did ucbs know well we don’t really know for sure uh as far as we know there aren’t any other

Possible references to the Shroud in his writings at least not that I’ve seen so yeah so what’s interesting is that the Aryans are probably the ones who end up guarding the Shroud at this time in Antioch so the Shroud doesn’t even have to go anywhere it just so happens that

The Shroud ended up in the one place where where uh iconography was accepted when the rest of Christendom was starting to reject iconography during this period so you can probably already see that the history of the Shroud is just as miraculous as the science of it because the very fact that the Shroud

Always just happens to be in the one place where it could survive some how uh really is just astonishing it is certainly nothing short of a miracle if if what I’m presenting here tonight is actually the truth so between 337 to 361 ad aryanism is

Back in style again and uh the Shroud is probably remarkably being used during the Eucharist and we know this from What’s called the catechesis of of Theodore of mopsuestia and he was a native of Antioch well he wrote about the deacons there in Antioch spreading linen cloths on the altar during their Eucharistic

Ceremonies and the ceremony was designed to imitate burying the dead by waving fans over a body uh so in accord with the discipline of the secret which would have still been in use at this time uh the claws are never fully described but they do seem to Bear an image of the

Crucified Jesus so this is what Theodore wrote he said this ministry of the sacrament contains an image of the ineffable economy of Christ Our Lord an image in which we receive the vision and the Shadows of the happenings that took place which was the crucifixion it is the deacons who bring

Out this oblation which they arrange and place on the all inspiring altar which in its Vision as represented in the imagination is an all- inspiring event to the onlookers we must also think of Christ being at one time LED and brought to his passion and at another time stretched on

The altar to be sacrificed for us so he’s giving this image of Christ being stretched out on the altar to be sacrificed for them because the tradition of the Eucharist is that you are sacrificing Christ again that’s that’s what Catholics and orthodox believe about the Eucharist and so their ceremony would

Include this image of Christ that was laid out on the Altar and they described it as a inspiring and ineffable an ineffable image ineffable means undescribable so in other words how is it there what is it we can’t describe it we can’t explain it it’s an it’s an ineffable unexplainable image of Christ

Our Lord so really interesting see if you didn’t know about the Shroud of Turin you would probably read this and go well it was just they just had a picture of Jesus right but now that we do know about the Shroud of Turin now we can say well we actually do

Have this incredibly mysterious image of Christ we actually have it and scientists have looked over it and even they can’t explain it so if it came from Jesus then surely somebody else would have noticed it throughout history well you know this is that moment in history it’s in Antioch and they’re describing

It being as secretive about it as they can because they want to protect it now let’s uh switch gears a little bit here we are now in the fourth Century trying to get to the 14th century now I want you to look at another line of evidence in history that

Is going to blow your mind I guarantee the his history of art of Jesus people have been drawing pictures of Jesus since the first century well what you’re going to see is that there’s a peculiar moment in time where the pictures of Jesus suddenly change and they suddenly start to look

Like you guessed it the Shroud of Turin when does that change happen well it’s going to happen in the 6th Century coming up here real soon but first let me show you what the what the paintings of Jesus looked like up until this point in history so here’s a

Very faded picture from the first century from the Copic Egyptians uh what we know from this is that he’s Jesus is clean shaven and he does have long hair but he’s clean shaven so he doesn’t have a beard here’s another one between the first and third centuries this is a

Romanized Jesus he has short hair and no beard this is from Rome this is from the third Century same kind of thing the Good Shepherd Motif a short hair no beard that is also from Rome here’s the third Century Fresco of Jesus with his disciples this is also in

Rome he’s got a little longer shaggy hair but still no beard in fact none of the disciples have beards in the beginning of the 4th Century we have Jesus uh healing the bleeding woman here he has short hair no beard from the 4th Century in Italy we

Have Jesus with longer hair but no beard then the early 4th Century we’ve got Jesus with somewhat longer hair but no beard so you can tell they’re really dedicated to um romanizing him right so all this is very interesting keep those images in your mind real

Quick well in 362 a fire burns down the Temple of Apollo in Antioch and the emperor Julian he blames the Christians and he orders the cathedral in Antioch to be closed and for all of its Treasures to be confiscated well in aryion because they’re still being guarded by the arens

At this time an ariam named theodoris who is not the same as Theodore that we looked at before but theodoris he hid those treasures and when he was asked where he hid them he was executed because he would not say where he hid them so now it seems that the Shroud is

If if the Shroud was one of those Treasures it’s now hidden somewhere in Antioch probably in a jar now we do have evidence from the Shroud itself we have crease lines showing how it’s been folded and rolled up over the centuries and we can tell where some of the stains

On it came from because obviously there are some stains that line up when you fold it up a certain way well we know that it was rolled up a certain way at some point because it has water stains on that one side from where it would

Have been at the bottom probably in a jar or a vase of some sort so is this when that happened well we can’t say for sure but the fact that this is how it was hidden and we have those water stains that indicate that that’s probably what was going on it just it

Just so happens to line up scientifically all right so now the Shroud is hidden in Antioch here at the end of the 4th Century now during this period uh we start to see sculptures of Christ popping up in Antioch from this very specific period of time the

Theodosian period from 370 to 410 AD and it just so happens that at this very moment in time we start getting a Jesus that looks like this with longer hair and with a beard also with a noticeably longer nose and um a certain kind of facial expression here for sure so

That’s already very interesting but wait there’s more in the middle of the 6th Century between 528 to 538 ad Antioch starts going under some Renovations the Shroud was probably uncovered near The City Gate something was found near that City Gate and a monk named John moscos wrote that an awesome

Image of Christ which was an object of particular veneration was found by The City Gate read that again an awesome image of Christ which was an object of particular veneration they were incredibly excited to find this thing it was a thing they had probably heard about before man we used to have this

Incredible picture of Christ we used it in our Eucharist ceremonies and we don’t know what happened to it ever since the emperor uh raided the cathedral we don’t we don’t know what happened to it but now we have found it we found it so it immediately becomes an object of particular

Veneration well in 540 right after that Persia sacks Antioch because that’s how history Works history is just a series of sackings and the bishop of Antioch at the time his name was arrus he actually made a deal with the Persian king that the church not be destroyed this time

Please don’t destroy the church this time but you can take the treasures however unusually we know that ephus fled the city anyway we don’t know why he ran away because he would have been safe he became friends with the King well where did he go well he went to

Cissa which was very close to kulana so he went up into this region right here well he died in 545 not long after he left Antioch he probably intended if he took the Shroud with him he probably intended to bring it back to Antioch because it had been there for quite a

Few centuries now and they would have wanted to keep it but what we do know is that about 10 years after that in 554 ad some Orthodox priests start parading an image of Christ through the streets in celissia and caposa which is the area here around chamana

And they were calling it in Greek Aira pooton that word in Greek means not made by human hands you imagine what it would take to call something not made by human hands and they were also calling it the image of God incarnate now I want you to

Call to mind from part one of the Shroud presentation that I did that when the sturp research team went in in 1978 they expected to walk in and scrape the paint off of the Shroud and call call it day but they didn’t find any paint on it the

Image is not made of paint well people in the 6th century were not stupid okay they also tried to scrape the paint off of it and they couldn’t do it because it’s not made of paint and they had no idea how the image got on there CU they

Couldn’t do Mass spectrometry tests on it okay they couldn’t take microscopic photographs of the fibral on the Shroud all they knew is that there’s an image on this thing and we don’t know why it’s there so that’s why they started calling it a kop pooton not made by human hands

And wouldn’t you know the very moment in history that the Shroud probably for the first time is being paraded around in public and shown to anyone and everyone who wants to see it what happens the paintings of Jesus completely change and you start getting this this extremely common icon called the

Pantocrator which means ruler of all which was painted we know in 550 ad now it’s in Egypt which is a little far away from capid doia however at this very specific moment in history between the years 527 to 565 the Byzantine empire under Justinian the Inc this entire region of Asia Minor

Right here in the north of Africa including Egypt the monastery of St Catherine Sinai Egypt is down here in the uh Arabian peninsula here but it’s inside the Kingdom so it just so happens at this specific moment of time as soon as the Shroud starts getting paraded through the streets in

Public everybody starts to see it it’s being paraded through the streets in the major transportation region of the area it just so happens that all the art surrounding Jesus completely changes anybody in everybody could see it and just so there’s not any more doubt about this the renowned art

Historian Han’s belting he argued that the pantocrator was based on a Model he said it couldn’t have just been painted freehand he said it had to have been based on a Model while shroud researchers Mary and Allen Wanger they identified 150 points of congruence between the Shroud and the

Paner and to put that in context only 45 to 60 points of congruence are standard in modern forensic photograph matches so if you’re trying to match what somebody looks like in a photograph in a court of law you need 45 to 60 points of congruence but the panacor matches the Shroud at 150

Points so there are many similarities between the penter and the Shroud just a few is the wide space between between the cheeks and the hair which the artist is filled in with the ear the beard is displaced slightly sideways the mustache is non-symmetrical and the face is

Asymmetric and the face is is swollen the cheeks are swollen uh let me show you the whole the whole one here you see how it’s asymmetrical like this now what’s interesting is the artist for the pantocrator has used this to his Advantage because this side of Jesus is

Peaceful and gracious and merciful while this side he’s holding probably the book of the law or The Book of Life and he’s more he’s more judgmental here he is after all he is the judge of us all so that that asymmetry ends up being used for artistic purposes but the fact that

It perfectly matches the Shroud just goes to show that if the panto was based on a model and if the Shroud was being put on public display at this very specific time in history in a very small window then it makes perfect sense that the Shroud would be the model for the pantocrator

Furthermore just to clarify a little bit and I did mention this in the previous presentation there are actually drops of paint on the Shroud but we know that those little drops don’t make up the image what it appears like is that people would try to trace the Shroud

Image they would put something over it and would try to paint the IM they would try to get the dimensions right with it and it would it ended up getting a few little drops of paint on the uh on the image and it’s possible that some of

Those uh drops also got into the blood stains which caused a a huge fuss when one of the Skeptics discovered a drop of paint in the blood stains so uh that doesn’t negate the serum that has that was found though that’s only visible under ultraviolet light so don’t worry about that

Point is is we know that people were trying to paint the Shroud and it’s very possible that something like this is the result and as you’ll see moving forward in history all the paintings remain the same from there on well in 574 obviously if you’re going to parade your precious Relic through

The streets and show it to anybody and everybody who wants to see it the Byzantine emperor is going to come get it so the Byzantine emperor in 574 comes and he seizes the IM of God incarnate from the village of Camana and he brings it up to Constantinople well this means that only

Select high ranking church leaders were going to be able to see it because now it’s not out in the public anymore so it’s very possible that this man the bishop Leander of Seville he was likely one of the privileged people who got to to view it at its full length uh once it

Was in Constantinople at that time and he wrote this about it he well what he did was was he he modified the Liturgy that they were using at that time and he modified it to say that on the morning of Jesus’s resurrection Peter and John ran to the tomb and saw the recent

Imprints of the dead and risen one on the claws recent imprints on the claws so it just so happens that this bishop of Seville writing around 582 ad at the very moment that we know that the image of God incarnate was taken from Camana into Constantinople and Constantinople

Is where Leander was he adjust the Liturgy to say recent imprints on the cloths I hope yall are amazed as I am because I I I just well from then on they did start to recognize that the Shroud was very special so on a few occasions like in

586 and in 626 ad the image of God incarnate as it was being called called was being used as a Palladium as a as a banner to Rally troops and Inspire courage but only the face was shown so they would show it to the Troops in order to work up their courage before

They went off into battle okay and they believed that it was a protective image that would that would grant them blessings and protection now there are seams on the Shroud where we can tell that it has been folded in certain places so that you know if you fold it

Four ways you can fold it such that only the only the head is visible which is probably how it was folded at this time also remember that the Shroud itself remarkably is only just a little over 5 lbs it’s not very heavy at all it’s definitely more like a veil than a than

A blanket uh so it wouldn’t have been difficult to carry around although it probably used it did probably used to be a little heavier than it is now all right so we have made it from Jerusalem to Antioch a a brief little visit in adessa back to Antioch up through uh

Caposa and then it was seized the image of God incarnate was seized in Camana and it was taken straight to Constantinople so now it is in Constantinople well at that time the emperor started minting gold coins that was used to pay the military and it would had they had this image of

Jesus on them and it has been calculated that this image on these coins matches the Shroud to 99.99% accuracy in fact it’s so accurate that even this this one particular crease that’s on the Shroud that’s actually from folding was made into one of the the hymns of the robe that Jesus is

Wearing now why would they do that well because it was folded so that they could only see the head they didn’t know that if you look at the rest of the image the man is actually not wearing any clothes so they Mook that crease in the cloth

For an image of a hymn on a garment the edge of the Garment so very interesting and we have these coins well the art starts following suit in the 7th Century right after this here’s the from the catacombs of Rome I actually just found this one the other

Day so this is brand new I’m still I’m still pretty amazed look at this look look at this the mustache is asymmetrical the beard is displaced sideways the face is asymmetrical this side is slightly higher up it’s slightly more swollen there’s a space between the cheek and the cheeks and the

Hair here’s another one here’s the first guy to have a picture of himself painted with Jesus it’s from the seventh century but you can see same idea and this is monk Abbott say hello now in the 8th Century in the 700s remember that’s how it worked if it’s

The 700s it’s the 8th Century the century number is always one ahead of anyway anyway so in the 700s here Constantine V uh he’s reigning over Byzantium the the Byzantine Empire iconography once again becomes Blasphemous so back and forth back and forth yet again the Christians have

Decided that icons are not good so Constantine is left trying to figure out well what am I going to do with this miraculous image of God incarnate you know in order to keep it from these iconic clasts right well he orders that it be locked up in the temple

Forever that was the decree it shall be locked up in the temple forever and only the emperor would ever be allowed to see it in its golden casing it was kept in a gold case uh there’s currently a paper I need to follow up on that I found the other day

That was uh trying to detect traces of gold on the Shroud itself but uh I didn’t have time to to catch up with it well fast forward another century and iconography is back it’s back in style just like Bell Bottom Jeans but the Shroud has been forgotten

Well it hasn’t been forgotten but nobody knows where it is it’s still locked up in the temple it’s been kept secret still for centuries and at this point who can blame them I mean it’s like iconography is here then it’s gone then it’s here then it’s gone it’s like you

Might as well just keep this thing locked up nevertheless the artwork keeps coming here’s one from Greece from the 11th century which is a little after this same sort of thing you got a split in the beard uh which is particular to the Shroud and the dimensions are just

Completely spoted on also another interesting one in this one is that you have this like strand of hair that’s come down right here which might be an attempt to account for the prominent blood stain on the forehead of the Shroud that is either an e or a three

Depending on how you look at it I know we’ve made a lot of progress into history so far but now we have to rewind a little unfortunately two steps forward one step back because now we need to go over a particular legend that started emerging around this time this

Is the legend of King abgar the 5th of adessa now we already mentioned him actually in history right we already mentioned that he requested to be baptized from the pope remember that and then aerius went and baptized him and probably showed the Shroud to him which means other people in Essa probably saw

It too well what ended up happening is this this story sort of blew up it became a it became an exaggerated Legend the way the legend started to go is that King abgar actually wrote to Jesus himself during Jesus’s Ministry and abgar was requesting that Jesus come

Heal him of a sickness and Jesus apparently wrote back to him saying I can’t make it right now I’ve got a lot going on but in a few years I’m going to send one of my disciples to you to heal you himself and so abgar goes okay well

A few years later one of the disciples shows up I for I forget who it’s supposed to it was either Thomas or I think it was Thomas shows up with the Shroud the barrial cloth of Christ and heals King abgar using that using that cloth and as the legend goes King abgar

Got to keep it well then The Legend Continues that in 525 in the 6th Century a flood struck adessa and a lot of people were killed and a lot of buildings were destroyed but while they were repairing a section of the city wall uh there was

A cloth discovered in the wall and it seemed to have an image of Jesus on it and uh they believed that that image had come from 57 ad which is when abgar got healed so maybe it had been hidden in the wall since then due to persecution

Of the Christians so from then on that Legend came to be called the image of adessa that was what it was called now based on what I’ve already told you about the history of the Shroud you can probably see some parallels between this story and what actually happened in Antioch where it

Was hidden away in Antioch and then they found it by The City Gate in Antioch and then they started showing it around and parading it around to everyone well it seems like there was kind of a mixup going on here that the the people in adessa thought that that was something

That happened in adessa so they started calling it the image of adessa but then there was this other cloth that was actually in Antioch and had been taken up to Constantinople and it was being called the image of God incarnate well that would be easy to explain

Except that we know from this time period from 800 to 942 suddenly we start getting records of two different cloths that are in Constantinople like they’re actually writing that we have we have two cloths here that are miraculous one they’re calling the of Essa or the mandilion is

Another term for it which came from Essa and then the image of God incarnate came from Constantinople so what the heck is the image of adessa then what is this other cloth that’s being passed around I’m going to go ahead and spoil it for you it’s not the sedium of Oo we know

Where the sedium of oo is right now it’s uh probably somewhere in North Africa yeah we know where it is and it’s not the image of Essa so what is the the image of adessa well I have to leave you hanging on that one for a moment but the

Point is is that the art surrounding Jesus continues to be based on this Motif in fact it becomes What’s called the epitaphios icon and the epitaphios icon is an image that’s repeated over and over within Orthodoxy so it’s it’s the same kind of image with the same

Motif Jesus is being buried by Mary and John and his burial linen is is always is included in these in these icons so here’s one from 1164 and here’s one from 1172 that would that is part of what a document that we have called the Hungarian pre

Manuscript and uh we know that this manuscript W was actually commissioned by the king of Hungary uh who had formerly been engaged to the Byzantine Emperor’s daughter which is a lot of historical drama that’s how that’s how historical love affairs always work it’s always the King’s Daughter and you know the king

Whatever Emperor are point is that the guy who wrote the uh Hungarian manuscript probably had access to the Byzantine Temple where the image was being kept so he created the you know he was creating these epaphus icons that included details from the Shroud and some work has been done into analyzing

How much these images can be uh related to the Shroud for one thing the pattern that’s on this cloth right here seems to resemble the Herring bone weave that the Shroud is actually woven in so that’s already interesting and of itself but it also has this incredible detail right

Here which are what these poker holes this is where we believe on the Shroud uh some of the hot incense from the Eucharistic ceremonies had accidentally been dripped onto the shroud which to them they probably felt really bad about that and somebody probably got fired for

It but today we look at it and go thank you because it’s actually a very prominent feature of the Shroud that was also matched in this painting this sort of seven pattern from these poker holes so the fact that that matches up uh seems to be quite improbable all right in the year

1200 Emperor Alexis I third he broke the Covenant with God to keep the image of God incarnate hidden he broke the Covenant then it was sent the image of God incarnate was sent to the pharaoh’s Chapel in Constantinople so it’s no longer in the king’s Temple now it’s in

The pharaoh’s chapel and it was inventoried by a man named Nicholas mesites and he was the overseer of the Imperial Relic collection which is quite quite a thing to put on your resume I am the overseer of the Imperial Relic collection and what he wrote about these

Things that they had he he inventoried two cloths one is the burial synon the burial claws of Christ these are of linen he said they are of cheap and easy to find material and defying destruction since they wrapped The uncircumscribed Fragrant with mer naked body after the

Passion in this place he WR es again so pretty high talk for the burial shroud of Christ he also inventoried the image of Essa uh he called it a smaller towel like cloth with an image of Jesus on it as if by some art of drawing not wrought

By hand so that’s kind of interesting it’s like wait there’s another cloth that has the face of Jesus on it a drawing not rot by hand so what is what is that thing cuz you if you were at the the previous presentation you know the

Sud arum doesn’t have an image on it it just has blood stains so what is this other what is this image of adessa that has that has some drawing of miraculous drawing of Jesus on it I have to leave you hanging there on that one again we’re getting there all right well as

History goes in 1204 France sacks Constantinople so the Shroud has had a good run in Constantinople but now France has sacked it and part of that sacking was done by The Crusade Knights one of these Knights his name was Robert declar and he reported that during the siege of Constantinople in

1204 a cloth displaying an image of Christ was put on display every Friday for public exhibition near the city’s wall so they found this thing in the chapel in Constantinople and every Friday they would put it on public exhibition so now that France is running

The show they get to make the rules he said there was another of the churches which they called my lady St Mary of bler where was kept the synon in which our Lord had been wrapped which stood up straight every Friday so that the features of Our Lord could be plainly

Seen there and no one either Greek or French ever knew what became of the side ons after the city was taken so after the city was taken nobody knows where they went and then in 1205 another guy named Theodore who was the nephew of the emperor at time he wrote to Pope Innocent

III he’s a he has he has a complaint he said during the sack of Constantinople troops of Venice and France looted even the holy sanctuaries the venetians partitioned the treasures of gold silver and ivory while the French did the same with the relics of the Saints and most sacred of

All the linen in which our Lord Jesus Christ was wrapped after his death and before the resurrection we know that the sacred objects are preserved by their predators in Venice in France and in other places and the sacred Linen in Athens so now this guy is complaining that these things were

Inappropriately taken out of Constantinople especially the linen in which the Lord Jesus Christ was wrapped and it was taken to Athens this is what Theodore Angelo said one other interesting thing about this he says he was wrapped in it after his death but before the resurrection that seems really

Interesting and but what’s interesting is the Shroud matches that description because the image of the man on the Shroud is an image of a of a dead man so clearly it was before the resurrection now we know from studying the science of it that it was probably more like like

The moment of Resurrection but still basically the image you’re looking at is that of a dead man so a very interesting detail there and you can see we’re in 1205 now so we’re very close now to 1355 when the Shroud first becomes public so at this point it’s kind of hard to think

That this is not the same shroud that popped up in the 1300s cuz we’re only 150 years out but but but but think now how did it get there well we know that it was taken out of chamana and we know that the reason it was in

Chamana was because it had been taken out of there from from Antioch or adessa one of those two places I can’t remember exactly so we can trace this thing a pretty long way almost completely down to like the second century that’s pretty amazing pretty remarkable

So now it’s in Athens it was taken when Constantinople was sacked the image of God incarnate was down here in Athens all right well the image of adessa at this point in history this this other thing whatever it is this other cloth starts getting mixed up with the image of God

Incarnate so now people are referring to the image of God incarnate as the image of adessa and the image of adessa as the image of God incarnate there’s a lot of ing up going on now so you’ll see something like this that was painted in the medieval times and they’ll call it

The image of adessa even though we know from that one Temple record that the image of adesso was not the full image it was a face but the image of God incarnate was the full image was the full length image so obviously they were getting they were getting things mixed

Up which just goes to show that not everybody had access to these things here’s an 8th Century uh picture picture of the image of Essa just the face as you can see here’s a 10th Century painting of The Legend of King abgar as I told it to

You and he’s holding the image of adessa which is just the face of Christ now as you can see from this painting I mean if that isn’t the shroud of Turan then I don’t know what it is I mean they did get some things wrong they have the the Stigmata uh through the

Palms instead of the wrists and also for the record they have the arms crossed the wrong way but you know depending on how close cerelli was now from here we have what are called The Missing Years we don’t know what happened between the year 1205 to the year 13 this should be

1355 when the Shroud went public so there are two different hypotheses for what happened to it I mean there there are more hypotheses but there’s two main ones the the first one is called the banon hypothesis banon is a city in France so this Theory goes that in

124 there was a man named orthon de ro and he was promoted to be the Duke of Athens he had been one of the Crusaders who was in Constantinople so we know he was in Constantinople when the image of God incarnate was on display and he was

Eventually promoted to be the Duke of Athens and we know that it was taken to Athens thanks to that one little note from uh Theodore what’s his name and uh we know that the pope who Theodore had wrote to the pope also wrote a letter of disapproval to the

Venetians he said we pass over in Silence the many iniquities which you perpetrated at Constantinople despoiling ecclesiastical treasures and sacking Church possessions you wished to acquire as if subject to the law of hereditary ownership the Lord’s sacred Goods so he’s complaining to the venetians that they have the Lord’s sacred goods and it

Doesn’t really belong to them well in 12:15 the same Pope he made it illegal to sell or exhibit relics without Church approval so he’s trying to get control back of these of these relics that were taken out of Constantinople well the bottom line is is that arund Del

Ro or Oran Del Ro he eventually retired back home to banon France which is where he was from so if he had the Shroud he may have just brought it back with him just just as a I don’t know just like maybe a middle finger to the pope or

Something like that just like no you’re not I’m not I’m not going to give this thing back to you well as it turns out orthon de ro was the great great grandfather of Jee dveri who was the wife of Jeffrey desar and jeene dveri is the one who ends up putting the Shroud

On display to make some money in the 1300s so there you go that’s where the connection is so did did de ro bring the Shroud to France with him when he retired out of Athens possibility very strong possibility I think in fact this is the best theory now the second theory sounds

Good at first but then I’m going to tell you why it’s probably not this is the knight’s Templar hypothesis the Knight Templar hypothesis say of course the Knights Templar they were a famous French group of knights and they were very secretive they were kind of like a

Christian cult well they Rose to power and they ended up coming into possession of a lot of these Christian relics it was known that in order to be initiated into their order that they were actually shown an image of the head of the Lord during these rituals and we have a we

Actually have paintings uh especially one that was found in 1951 that was found in England that shows them kneeling before this uh before this image of Christ’s face so all very interesting well in the year 1307 the king of France he suppressed the order of the Knights Templar he declared them

Heretics he said you’re you can’t you can’t you guys can’t do this anymore uh you guys are no good for whatever reason and then they raided the knight’s headquarters in Paris but they failed to find this image that they had been uh essentially praying to and and bowing before and swearing

Before so presumably that image had been taken out of Constantinople so again this was just the face of Christ so what so what was this thing all right well now let’s talk about what what was this thing because there’s another Catholic tradition called Veronica’s veil Veronica’s veil the way this Legend

Goes is that when Jesus was carrying his cross to gol gotha a woman named Veronica stopped him and wiped the blood off of his face using a handkerchief a cloth of some kind and then supposedly when the blood was washed off a miraculous image of Christ’s face was

Left on this cloth that’s how the legend goes and sometimes people have mistakenly referred to Veronica’s veil as perhaps being the Shroud of Turin in fact this very mistake was made in Mel Gibson’s film The Passion of the Christ he shows Veronica wiping the blood off

Of Jesus’s face and you end up with the face of Jesus on the cloth the camera backs out and it shows that face on the cloth which is created by the blood impression but the face on the cloth is the face from the Shroud of Turin but it’s just the face and it’s

Made of blood not of the other things that we know the image is made of so it’s easy to see how these Legends if you didn’t have actually have access to these clots how they could get mixed up like this so what was Veronica’s veil

Obviously we know it was a thing it was a thing because this image of adessa remember the people from adessa thought they had they thought they had the image of God incarnate but really had they had this other thing it was just the face of Christ that’s how it’s always referred

To so what was it is it really a miraculous image left on this cloth thanks to uh Jesus and Veronica probably not now we have these things we have I mean we have these relics there’s there’s uh two or three of them that we have preserved and the truth is is that

They’re not really that miraculous what it appears happened is that it appears like somebody tried to trace the face on the Shroud of Turin by putting something over it and painting over it to to match the dimensions and the look of the Shroud but obviously to create a living face

Not not a a dead face so so what is it at best we can probably say that the veil of Veronica whether it’s this one or this one or this one can it was probably a very very very old tracing of the face on the Shroud that’s

Probably what it was and it was so old and worn that it probably started to make people think that it was a miraculous image because it would be very striking to you after all if you just saw the the face on the cloth and then you heard the

Story that goes along with it I was like oh this this cloth was pressed onto the face of Christ as he was carrying the cross up to golgatha like yeah that’s pretty persuasive story there and you don’t know how this picture got on there but obviously you know as far as we can

Tell this this is most likely a painting and it matches the the painting matches the style of the periods when it was probably done probably between the fifth and seventh centuries at some point so it matches um which by the way is also when the Shroud went public right remember in the 6th

Century so that’s probably when it was done and then people got a hold of it and they started referring back to the legend of abgar that story and they got it all mixed up so the Knights Templar if they actually had anything at all they probably just had this they

Probably just had Veronica’s veil so what that means is that the image of Essa is not the Shroud the image of God incarnate is the Shroud and it’s most likely that the banon hypothesis is better which means it ended up with orthon Del Ro who was the great great grandfather of Jee dii

Who started putting the Shroud on display in 1355 that’s what was probably going on so we have successfully traced the Shroud all the way from Jerusalem up to Antioch one little stop in adessa that caused a bunch of historical problems for us today up through Camana to Constantinople lots of sacking to

Athens and then retiring to banun one-way ticket to banun and then it pops up 150 years later right there in ly France so we’ve done it we have traced the the movement of the Shroud from Jerusalem to France and of course by the time the desies probably realized what they had

Or maybe they didn’t didn’t really realize what they had the Knights Templar were still considered Heretics so they would not have advertised where they got it from I mean maybe jein knew that it was her great great-grandfather Oran de Rose who brought this thing up from Athens but he did that because he

Was one of the Knights Templar so it’s like no no no no no xay on the I nay don’t talk about that so that’s probably why she never brought it up it’s a pretty good cover story for why we don’t exactly know where the Shroud was hanging out for 150 years and then

Unfortunately uh Jeffrey desney died in battle in 1356 so we don’t have his side of the story and in 1357 was when Jean started putting it on display to make money and she started selling these gift shop medallions to people which is obviously the Shroud so there you have it then of

Course uh they started calling it The Holy shroud instead of the image of God incarnate it was moved to the chapel in France where the chapel only almost burned down the Shroud got burned in a silver box and then the Holland cloth was sewn onto

The back of it which is the thing if you recall that caused a bunch of problems for the 1988 carbon dating and then in 1578 the house of seavoy which is kind of like the you know the powerful rich people in Italy they obtained the Shroud and they moved

It to turn Italy where it has stayed to this day in 1983 King Umberto seavoy II who was the last king of England willed the Shroud to the Vatican when he died so it is currently housed in the Cathedral of Turin in Italy where it has remained for for many

Many years uh and it is owned by the Vatican although it is worth noting that before 1983 during the 1978 sturp investigations which was you know the 120 hour scientific analysis and all that was it was still privately owned then so when the 1978 party was held it was privately

Owned it was not the Catholic church that agreed to that it was the Catholic Church all they’ve all they’ve done is agreed to the 1988 sample being taken for the carbon dating and that was very brief so other than that the Vatican has not agreed to anything else since then

Except pouring money into preserving it of course which obviously they ought to do now clearly during this time in history the Shroud becomes known for what it is I mean these paintings are from the 16th and 17th centuries there’s no doubt that people knew about the Shroud but obviously they couldn’t take

Pictures of it because photography had not been invented yet so they had to paint paintings like this to explain what is this thing I mean it’s hard enough to explain to people without a photograph can’t imagine how they were trying to describe it to each other without these paintings it’s like yeah

It’s an image of Christ the front and the back wrapped vertically around him at the moment of his resurrection it’s like it’s a very strange thing but we have this thing and it’s in Italy you got to come see it all right and then of course in 1899

Was when the first photographs of the Shroud were taken by sopia I told you his story last time he is the one who discovered that when you that the Shroud image itself is a photographic negative so that when you look at a photographic negative of the Shroud the image on the

Shroud is rendered as a photographic positive which reveals incredible details of it as it is I just want to pause right here and point out y’all have been listening to me now for something like an hour and a half talking about this mysterious shroud that has being passed around through

History and I know history gets long and complicated and maybe a little boring but this thing that I’ve been talking about that people have been passing around for centuries the image of of God incarnate the image of adessa the mandilon the Aira poon the holy shroud that’s

It that’s the thing that’s the thing that people were looking at and saying what is this it’s not made with human hands it’s all inspiring it’s ineffable that was the way they described it this is the thing it’s the burial shroud of Christ then of course in 1978 the shroud of

Turan research project was held where they made all these remarkable scientific discoveries again they discovered the image is only on the topmost fibral of the topmost fibers of the linen that those fibral are not made of paint they’re they’re not painted they’re not stained they’re hyper aged and the only

Thing that could have hyper aged those fibral without otherwise affecting their their consistency is a sudden burst of concentrated radiation emitted from the body inside the Shroud can you imagine what these medieval knights would have thought of this they probably would have started a war over this thing if they had known

This stuff back then they would have hunted each other down to the death we know that the image was projected vertically from the body onto the Shroud because the image is only on that one side side and we know that the Shroud image was not composed by contact

With the cloth which means that the image was projected through space onto the cloth we know that the blood stains are all in anatomically correct places they correspond with important arteries and there are tons of them we know that the crucifixion wounds are accurately through the wrists instead of

The Palms we know that the image itself is Not underneath the blood stains which indicates that the blood STS were on the Shroud before the image was formed we know that the blood is type AB positive with Y chromosomes we can tell that this man who was inside this cloth suffered

Severely and that the wounds that he suffered came from a roban flagrum on the back I forget how many of these they’ve numbered but it’s it’s a it’s like a hundred of these markings all over this man’s body is the scourging that he endured he has a crown his wounds from a

Crown of thorns on his head wound from being pierced in the side where they found serum and white blood cells from the blood trying to clot which means that when the blood got on the Shroud it was coming out of fresh wounds which means that this man

Suffered terribly keep in mind this is what all these people through the centuries were looking at this was the image they were seeing covered in blood that’s why it’s all inspiring is because it just goes to show you how much this man suffered and if it’s the man we think it

Is how much he suffered on our behalf we also know from more recent dating uh techniques not the 1988 carbon dating which was botch but we know from more recent techniques that the Shroud does date to 2,000 years ago with x-ray scattering tests and with fienile

Tests so the Shroud does date to the first century we do have the sedium of OVO which didn’t take long to get to OVO France but it has the same kind of blood on it as the Shroud it has type AB positive with Y chromosomes and the blood stains on it match the

Shroud to the point to the point where researchers have said that it’s absurd to suggest that by happen stance all the wounds coincide on both claws logic requires that we conclude that we are speaking of the same person and this would correspond to the handkerchief that was around Jesus’s

Head now it doesn’t have an image on it as I explained last time because it has these diagonal folds on it where it was probably rolled up after they used it to soak up some blood they folded it up they rolled it up diagonally and then

You probably used it to tie around his head under his chin to keep the mouth closed during burial and since the image was projected vertically from the body that’s why there was no image projected onto the sedium so we have this thing as well this remarkable artifact that is still kept in oovo

Spain and we know that the sedium of oo the way it got here it actually came the other way it came out of Jerusalem and we know that it slowly made its way along the North coast of Africa and then it eventually crossed the straight here and came up to oov

Spain so it was never never in the line of fire the way that the Shroud was but uh remarkably if the sedium covered the same man as the Shroud then the Shroud cannot be a hoax from the 1300s or the 1200s it just can’t because the known

History of the sedium goes back to the 7th Century that’s 500 years prior to when the Shroud first pops up publicly so the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that the blood that’s on the Shroud of Turin is the blood that bought your

Sin and I don’t know any other way around it now really fast I want to go very very fast through part three of this entire series which is Skeptics objections now we’ve already gone over the dating objections okay we’ve already gone over the carbon dating so I’m not going to do that again

Because that’s a long detailed thing and we did that last time but these are other kinds of suggestions historical and Theological and all that well one of the ones I hear a lot is well we can’t know for sure that it’s Jesus we don’t know what Jesus looked

Like and you know here’s the thing we don’t know what Jesus looked like that’s true okay know we don’t have a photograph of Jesus to compare to the shroud of tur and say yep that’s him uh but here’s the thing if the Shroud was created by an artist it was

Definitely created to look like Jesus okay there’s just no doubt about that with all the blood stains that correspond with the wounds that are described from the gospels that Jesus endured it’s clearly meant to look like Jesus he’s the same size he’s the same shape and he’s the same age roughly and

All of that so this objection is really just ignoring all of the evidence it it it has no merit at all okay all of the shrouds features match descriptions of Jesus there’s no denying that so you know if it’s not Jesus then it’s someone who might as well be

Jesus all right some other people have suggested that the radiation was emitted from the rocks of the Tomb that caused the image but the answer to this is no first of all because Rocks Don’t emit radiation like that and second of all the image is only on the inside of the

Shroud not the outside if it was emitted from coming outside of the Shroud then the image would have likely been created on the outside of the Shroud as well but it’s not so it’s a pretty bad objection it’s a pretty bad objection yeah another bad objection is that the

Shroud was a genius move from Leonardo da Vinci well the problem is is Leonardo Da Vinci wasn’t born until 1452 100 years after the Shroud was being used to make money I put the I put all of these in here because I’ve heard them from people because I personally

Have heard these from people uh so yeah at least Google it first said Da Vinci all right here’s one that comes from Christians a lot it’s said they say well G the Bible says that Jesus was actually ugly and the guy on the Shroud is actually kind of good-look and it

Says that they pulled out his beard well okay number one number one the Bible does not say that Jesus was ugly they’re what they’re use they’re using Isaiah 532 here he it says he has no form or Splendor when we observe him nor appearance that we desire him well this

Passage is speaking poetically about man’s rejection of the Messiah that what the point is that he didn’t present himself in splendor as the Son of God he presented himself as a humble man okay so he presented himself humbly in this way furthermore the Bible does not say

That they pulled out all of his beard it says in Isaiah I gave my back to those who struck me and my cheeks to those who plucked out the beard that does not mean they pulled out the whole beard okay it means they at at most just plucked out some of it and

That is probably why there is this split in the in the beard on the Shroud it looks like it could have been probably pulled out which would have been incredibly excruciatingly painful but that is what Jesus was enduring it also kind of looks like they took a chunk out

Of the mustache too so I mean this matches and it’s and it it’s it’s grueling to think about honestly well the Bible says Jesus was beaten beyond recognition so how could you Poss L tell what he looked like well that’s just a it’s just a misconception from Isaiah

52:14 the literal translation of this verse says as many as were astonished at thee his appearance being so spoiled for man and his form from the sons of men so some English translations will see things like his uh like his form was marred which causes people to think that like his

Face it’s like it’s like they’re imagining that he was like mauled by a bear or something like his face was just like ripped off off which I’m sorry to use that example but that’s that’s the kind of thing that they’re imagining when they make this when they make this

Objection and you know the Bible just isn’t that specific that’s not what it says but we do know that the Shroud depicts distinct wounds To The Head and the face including lacerations and swelling okay he was cut on the face and his face was beaten and his face is

Swelling and you know that’s just that’s just the way that it is so the Shroud does not actually contradict this verse here other people say well the image looks more European not Jewish well the reason they say this and I and I I really think that the reason that people

Say this is because when you look at the negative the photo negative that makes it all white makes it like a black and white image yeah when you look at the white hair like that it looks like a looks like a European Crusader Knight in fact

It looks a lot like the Crusader night at the end of uh Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade you know the Knight who’s guarding the the Holy Grail but the truth is is that you they’ve done plenty of computer analysis on the Shroud and as long as you color

The hair brown and you give him brown eyes he looks distinctly Middle Eastern there’s nothing about his countenance that that contradicts a a middle eastern look so I think that’s where that coming from and I think the people who make this objection again just haven’t looked

At enough evidence yet in fact this one right here came from a guy who was commissioned by the History Channel so even the History Channel you know they’re always doing their their absolute worst to disprove the Bible and even they couldn’t uh disprove the Shroud actually I recommend you watch

That documentary it’s on YouTube it’s called the real face of Jesus I think it’s from 2012 really terrific it’s amazing the History Channel couldn’t even they couldn’t explain the Shroud all right another serious objection that Christians raises Jesus didn’t have long hair and they use this verse from 1 Corinthians 11 where it’s

Where Paul says does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a dishonor to him well okay that this is a valid objection that’s fine the trouble is that in verse 13 Paul had said judge among yourselves and in verse 16 he says

We have no such custom nor do the Churches of God so what this means is that this long hair versus short hair issue was really just a custom thing and Paul was trying to tell them you know you need to do what is beneficial to the conscience of the people who are there

With you so don’t just don’t go trying to offend these people or be mindful of offending these people because that’s not how you spread the gospel so that’s what Paul is talking about he is not saying that it’s a sin to have long hair so that’s it’s just a bad exegesis of 1

Corinthians 11 also what counts his long hair how long is long hair how long does it have to be all right here’s another one that sounds compelling at first God forbids images of himself so here we’re back at the uh iconic clasts right they’re going

To say no you can’t have images of God so the Shroud is an idol and if the shroud’s an idol then you that’s not a good thing we ought to just destroy the thing well yeah God did forbid graven images but he actually never he actually never forbid images of himself he forbid

Images of other things now it is a custom in Judaism never to portray the father as as a as a painting or whatever and that’s remained pretty consistent through Christianity actually you very very rarely see paintings that are meant to depict the father and even in the

Bible there aren’t there are no images in the Bible there’s only one brief one in the Book of Daniel where it’s the Ancient of Days sitting on the throne but some people even dispute if that’s meant to be the father it could just be

Uh the angel of the Lord or now we call we refer to him as the son but all of this is kind of beside the point anyway because if God made the Shroud then it’s probably all right okay no matter no matter what he said about

Making other images if he gave us a picture of himself it’s probably okay to keep it around okay now that being said the Shroud is not so holy that it’s holier than Christ himself obviously one day I think the Shroud will probably go away I think it will

Probably you know be destroyed in some way and that’ll be a sad day I hope it’s not anytime soon I hope they don’t let one of these environmentalist nuts get at it and throw paint on it you know so yeah this is really not a good objection

All right one one serious one that historians have had to contend with is that there is a letter there it’s two drafts of one letter from 1389 that claims that the Shroud was made by a cunning artist however there’s really nothing else said if you really dig into the

Issue what it looks like is that there was a lot of drama going on between Bishop pier dearis and uh whoever he was uh another Bishop there’s a lot of drama going on and the Shroud was being passed around and they didn’t like they didn’t like that this thing was being passed

Around that they were making such bold claims about it so for some reason a letter was written saying that this thing is is a fake that it was made by an artist but they don’t say how and besides that we know scientifically that the Shroud could not have been created

By an artist because all the duplication attempts have completely failed so these people seem to have been clearly lying for some kind of political Advantage between each other because we know that paint does not make up the image so this is pretty easy for a skeptic to latch on to on the internet

Because you’ll see this this detail pop up in a lot of Articles as like evidence against the Shroud but compared to the rest of the historical evidence that I’ve shown you tonight are you really going to let this one get stuck in your head compared with all the rest of the

History plus the scientific evidence I mean I don’t see any re there’s no reason to trust this at all all right the Shroud doesn’t match descriptions of the burial claws in the gospel now here’s one that has caused a little bit of trouble for some shroud researchers um I pointed out to you

Before at the beginning that in Matthew it’s described as a clean linen cloth okay however in other places like in John it says it was bound in strips of linen with as the custom of the Jews is to bury so the trouble has been in trying to determine what actually were

The first century burial customs of the Jews well you know it from all of the research that been done it doesn’t really seem that there’s much of a contradiction in the way that burials were done and besides all of that the burial of Jesus was very unusual they

Had to do it very quickly it involved rich people who had access to Peculiar resources which would be Joseph a Vera buying that clean white linen which would have been and we know that the Herring bone weave would have been rare so it was expensive so it

Wouldn’t have been usual for a first century burial plus they didn’t get to finish with Jesus’s body they rushed it and they were trying to come back days later to finish the process so the Shroud probably was never meant to be part of the permanent process anyway it

Was probably there as just a a temporary uh measure but regardless as it turns out in the Greek this word aonian that’s used to translate as linen and linen cloth is very broad it’s very generic uh there are many ways you could translate it it could cover anything from strips

Of linen to uh one big piece of linen like just a clean linen cloth and besides that we do know that the hands and the feet were probably bound with strips because the body was in Rigamortis they would have done that and there is a strip of linen that is sewn

Onto the side of the Shroud and nobody knows when it was sewn onto that side it wasn’t sewn on at the same time as the Holland cloth in the 1500s that strip seems to be just as old as the Shroud itself so it’s very possible that it was

Either cut off of the Shroud at the time of the burial and then used to bind used to bind Jesus’s hands perhaps perhaps or his feet but then sewn back on at some time we we don’t know so either way I mean there had to have been strips of linen

Involved but they would have either been they would have either bound the hands and the feet inside the Shroud or they would have bound them outside of the Shroud somehow and for the record the the sedium was probably on the outside as well that’s the end of the objections there aren’t any other

Objections so again all of this leads me to conclude that what we know as the Shroud of Turin is the very burial cloth that covered Jesus at the moment of his resurrection and I don’t see any other historical way around it or scientific way around it I think it’s

Authentically this is what this is why I always tell people when when I’m when I talk about apologetics I live in the real world I don’t know where you guys live I live in the real world where we have these art facts that we can actually scientifically and historically Trace we

Can logically Trace back to these points in history and it all makes sense the story makes sense I live in a world that Jesus Christ created and he died for our sins and he resurrected from the dead and we will live on after this life in Resurrection bodies just like him

Because that’s what he has promised us that’s the real world as incredible as it sounds compared to our mundane lives sitting in you know metal folding chairs this is the real world the the burial shroud that wrapped Jesus in the Tomb in which he came back to life is currently in

Italy you can go see it well you can’t really you’ll get arrested but it’s there the rationale of why the Vatican would choose to keep it in Turin instead of Vatican City where they have all of their other archives I don’t know actually I don’t know why they would why they continue to

Keep an in turn I guess it’s just been safe there for so long that why move it also also I mean for the record the Vatican is hesitant they have never outright declared that it is the actual burial shroud of Christ they will call it a relic uh but they will not declare

That it’s the real thing for fear that they might get it wrong and you know I don’t blame them and that’s also why a lot of shroud researchers are very careful about not saying yeah this is definitely it 100% it’s because you know I get it they have their credentials

Writing on these sorts of things I however have no credentials and I think the TR the truth is plain and clear that this is the actual burial shroud of Christ that Jesus Christ really did die for our sins so that we can be forgiven and that we also can be raised

From the dead just like him the end or is it to be continued are there any other pressing questions that I have somehow failed to already address the naked eye like how earlier in the sixth and sth Century illustrations and the painting The it was so much more vibrant the

Yeah we yeah it is obvious that the Shroud is fading the image is fading and part of the reason is because if you go back and look at like some of these old paintings of the Shroud like this one like yeah it’s way more obvious and there seem to be other

Details available there that are not obvious to us today okay so what it appears like is because the image is made of hyper aged fibral it seems like the rest of the cloth is catching up an age to those fibral now so it’s slowly being erased just sort of like a fading

Fading Polaroid photograph so um yeah uh any other questions thanks Duran serious all right well let me pray us out real quick um Lord Jesus we place our trust in you our trust is not in science our trust is not in history our trust is in Your Love

Your Grace your mercy but we thank you Lord we thank you that you have left evidences of yourself all through history through science that point us to you that point us to your face Lord I pray that you would help us all to draw closer to you and to know

You better to see you more clearly working in our lives and working in our hearts Lord I pray that you you would uh draw us all closer together in your love bring Unity to your church Lord I pray that you would uh draw us closer to you always through the

Power of your Holy Spirit in us this I pray in Jesus name amen amen