New Red Bull Pro Cycling Team and Narrow Handlebars Aren’t Faster? | The NERO Show Ep. 68

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Red Bull are dipping their toe on the world or professional cycling, we are asking the question of … why? The @LifeTimeGrandPrix releases its documentary on YouTube from the 2023 series, we take a critical look. New pedals, untouchable topics and what’s so scary about swimming parents.

Chapters
00:00 intro
00:30 Red Bull Sports Washing
11:39 Life Time GP Documentary
23:11 NorCal Handlebar Width
30:26 New Pedal System
33:45 Berm Peak and a Pay-Wall In Cycling
44:15 Untouchable Topics
54:47 Swimming Parents

Footage Courtesy Of:

@NorCalCycling
@redbull
@LifeTimeGrandPrix
@DylanJohnsonCycling

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Welcome to this week’s episode of the Nero show in today’s episode Red Bull keep sinking their teeth into the road cycling Market what are they up to burn Peak is taking some of his content behind the pay wall what do we think is that a good future we’ve got a bit of a

YouTube wrap up with norcal’s new video and the lifetime Grand Prix series of videos and Untouchable topics what can’t you talk about all right let’s get into it weird time of year sit racing started where we’ve kind of had the big equipment drops not fully back into the

Race calendar yet but there’s there’s a trickle of there’s a trickle of stuff happening I thought we might start with this this Red Bull thing yes let’s start there do you want to kick us off just with what they’ve actually done yeah well there was the rumors about how Red

Bull were going to take over the borans grow a professional men’s team and now it’s come out that the basically the Austrian Authority that controls the business ventures has has allowed this takeover to happen so there’s not really any more details on around how it’s going to work what it’s going to look

Like but essentially red will have the green light to to buy an owning stake in the management company behind Bor hands grower so we’re looking at potentially sometime this year or or next year the Bor hands grower men’s cycling team is going to be Red Bull Racing the other

Little bit of news with with Red Bull is they did add a couple of sponsored athletes one of which is a British Junior suckle cross War Champion Zoe bad amongst other things I think M’s won some time trials as well and she’s she’s riding for Canyon Shram in the Women’s

World Tour why are we suddenly doing this why are we suddenly buying half of a men’s World Tour team why are we taking punts on young upand cominging British cyclists who are entering the world tour that well they did it with pidcock I think she is she is is well in

Line or if not outperforming Pitcock oh I’m not that level I think that makes sense but yeah I’m with you it’s kind of what espe I kind of get the individual sponsorship you know they wear the helmet it’s a that kind of makes sense it’s just an individual athlete sponsor

But the I got to just on that actually I want to chat about Bora but with the Red Bull thing why do teams let the Red Bull sponsored athletes Run Red Bull gear yeah it’s it’s just it seems to be Road cycling you have to be sponsor correct down to

Your shoelaces but if Red Bull sponsor you you can run a Red Bull helmet and no one cares can anyone answer that I I mean that’s the classic one there is is Cavendish because so Cavendish has got this relationship with Oakley and so he would anytime he would move to a team he

Would basically have to move the whole team onto Oakley because whatever the sunglass provider would be would never say no no no we’re not going to just allow Cav to run Oakley while the rest of us run I don’t know Alber Optics or something whereas you’re right like when

It comes to the helmet thing it’s oh red okay yes no problem which okay maybe just let me go on this because which may I can’t I can’t work out what’s going on here because Red Bull from a marketing perspective don’t do things by half this

Has to be a a a long-term play there must be something that they’re thinking about here and all I can think about in regards to the the sponsoring the writers or or this Bor hands grow thing okay to me this is all part of it has to

Be all part of some big play they don’t just muck around with this stuff because marketing is their game like they have I hate their product like I was actually going to get on here and and totally zag to your Zig and say I hate Red Bull just

Because I hate their yeah I just really don’t like the product but anyway from the marketing perspective like I know you do just a quick Insight Jessy mostly comes in here every day before recession and has a Red Bull but anyway um so sponsor him not me uh what was I saying

So so they don’t do things by half marketing’s their game blah blah blah blah blah what what are they trying to get out of this because we kind of are both in the camp of well is a bit of a [ __ ] show like what are you doing it’s a

You just put piling money away all I can think maybe is they see a gap with the broadcasting because you look at Red Bull and what they’ve done really well is they take an event and they fully produce it yep they make it the Red Bull Downhill like jumping off a cliff

Jumping off a cliff thing the the what’s the the cliff dive thing the cliff dive thing in my mind is now Associated the whole sport is associated with Red Bull because not only have they branded it so well but from what I gather you basically just watch it on their app so

They they’ve bought out the rights to whatever the league is of cliff diving and they just Pump It Out on their on their app and they have the content so what I’m trying to say here maybe this is this is me thinking thinking a little bit outside the box is that okay they

See a gap in the market they say oh you know what this cycling stuff the rights for this is really cheap in regards to all the other site all the other sort of professional sports that are out there golf tennis the big name mainstream and just like just like lanton was saying

Look every other every other sport has its own packaged app or it’s its packaged Channel on YouTube to pump this stuff out we don’t maybe they’re going to come in and go well right well you guys are a total [ __ ] show you’ve not got your act together we’ll come in

We’ll slap our brand on it with our sugary drink and away we go and you watch cycling through the Red Bull app very interesting idea there I mean on paper that’s fact that’s a Chris Miller fact I mean it makes sense because I’m I’m kind of sitting here I was going to

Go I don’t get it I mean you sponsor a recycling team it’s not very Red Bull so having another angle that they’re playing long term would definitely would make sense and maybe it’s not I’m not saying this is a world to I think like you look at it right so there there are

Event series coming up Red Bull cliff diving World Series the FIA World Rally series The WSL Big Surf big wave surfing so that’s big wave surfing that’s not the see what SPF spinoff it’s mountain bike but it’s that downhill stuff it’s not you know cross country mountain bike yeah um the

Red Bull Hardline which is the downhill stuff and Red Bull flug tag I don’t know where that is but yeah I could get around it um yeah so you can kind of see where so so maybe they do the okay well we’re going to have four

Red Bull events next year and one of them’s in Colombia like we were talking about this during the week like you watch the Colombian Nationals yeah I watched the Colombian Nationals and it was like holy sh like this is wild this is crazy yeah it looked like the

Olympics Road Race the people like holy [ __ ] and package that up with some Red Bull branding with like crazed Spectators streaming out on their service be the same time zone as the US I don’t know I’m I’m selling myself on this where do where do I sign up for

Yeah so if you were to pick what discipline would it be though would it just be Red Bull 200 km Road Race no I I don’t see it so where would you see if you had to hypothesize what angle are they going to take the road cycling this

Could well I think this potentially gets into into a chat I want to have a little bit later but it the multidiscipline aspect of the of the writers that they seem to sign is what is what is attractive to them and maybe to to other people so it don’t

Tell me it’s going to be the GW I don’t know what they no no no no no no no I I think it’s a I think it’s the it’s the vegan cyclist event so it’s it’s got some road it’s got some some downhill and it’s got some some gravel

And it’s a who’s the best cyclist who’s the best two-wheeler person in in the world maybe maybe maybe that’s the gimmick I don’t know okay okay yeah just in terms of them sponsoring act actual team that that sort of in terms of coers blow every other team out of the water

Like what’s the closest thing to Red Bull already in professional cycling I went through the teams the closest thing I could see as a consum product would be the alperson shampoo it’s probably the closest thing and Red Bull is a thousand times cooler than shampoo so imagine Red Bull it just

Wouldn’t fit it’s kind of like Red Bull Bora racing what is cool can I ask you this question cuz I feel like I’ve just bought into this for no reason because I I hate the actual product as I’ve said M what is cool about Red Bull explain it

To me or is the fact that you’ve got to explain it to me just mean I’m never going to get it no I have to explain what’s cool about Red Bull the entire brand is cool that’s that’s their entire product is it’s cool but there’s nothing about their product that makes

Me think like there’s nothing desirable about pumping myself full of caffeine and you crack that can and it’s I could be a Formula 1 driver right now really I’m going into the zone I’m growing wings I could be jumping from space in a in a wing suit I mean that’s the isn’t

That that’s their whole branding so I mean yeah I could just go buy a can of V but it’s not a Red Bull I mean I like the taste of Red Bull personally I think it’s the best tasting energy drink um but I mean what’s cool I mean

Everything they sponsor is cool they don’t sponsor anything lame that I that comes to mind I also think they’re really good at sticking with their branding colors just the color scheme of it that that blue red and yellow they are so strict with it that it just sticks I mean you could just

Come up if you saw a helmet in the distance that just happened to be those colors the first thing you’d think of would be Red Bull and the cars do it it’s it’s they’ve just been so consistent at it but that’s kind of my point is I’m quite confused cuz why is

Red Bull cool because everything they sponsor is cool far as I’m aware in the broader scheme of things roadcycling isn’t cool so that’s why I’m just confused where they’re going with it I will put this link in the description uh have you seen the uh Instagram reel of

It’s like in a if an Australian tells his other Australian mates that he’s a cyclist have you seen this real where they all just like they’re all in tears like oh my God you’re dead to me type type thing dare us that’s that’s actually it would be like one in

10 in terms of a cyclist sort of sympathizer SL person doing it to the other nine people who would actually react like that and so yeah like if you’re in a marketing department and go yeah we went to side with that one guy who’s the person standing up for cycling

Especially if you’re in probably yeah us UK Australia that would ring true obviously Europe I’m I’m hoping that would be different but you’re 100% right like you’re dead on this literally what it is the other thing I noticed this week is that the lifetime Grom Prix released their suppose their docu series

Their drive to their version of drive to survive for last year’s uh lifetime Grand Prix series I binge watched all of it on YouTube on YouTube um did you catch any of us I watched the Unbound men’s uh one of it about 30 minutes that’s the only one I watched but I got

A good idea of what it’s about so what’s uh what did you think I enjoyed it I thought I thought it was it was really good obviously really well put together um a couple couple of things on it from from my perspective I I think what they

Did really well is they managed to grab the characters out of the whole thing which is which drove the whole story you actually started following the the characters the athletes rather than necessarily the particular events themselves I don’t know if this is particularly unique to them but they for the big ones like

Leadville um Unbound they split the men’s and the women’s uh documentaries into completely separate things and I don’t know if you’ve noticed this and I don’t want to come across like as this the wrong way but like the views are basically the same for for both of them

Which when you’re when you’re starting from the beginning of a series and you’re you’re starting it with an equal plat equal platform like this and people are able to grab the characters of both the men and the women from the very beginning that’s that’s a game changer

Like that is that is it because the whole problem we’ll go into some other day but like whole problem of building something after the the other one is already big is the big one always overshadows the little one whereas that’s not the case here which is kind

Of cool is is that a Chris economics lesson yeah the big fish the little fish um a couple little interesting things I noticed right so just Keegan obviously dominates the whole thing like in terms of like the on bike performance the whole thing suffered from the fact that

Norther him nether him nor Sophia who was who dominated the women’s series really were were interviewed that much I’m not sure why that it was a bit like the oh god I’ve already forgotten what it was called what was the Netflix one called about cyclists Unchained Unchained like that whole thing suffered

Because like yonas doesn’t wasn’t really a big player in the whole thing and that this definitely happened here like he was bits and pieces in it but it was a lot of others talking about him which was kind of a bit of a bummer and I did

Notice when it came to talking about him especially as like the series went on that a lot of the guys was saying he’s a good trainer they’re heaping compliments on him but there was this underlying thing of well he doesn’t do anything else outside training or

Racing so he’s able to put all his energy into it and that’s why he’s so good and I don’t know if I’m reading too much into it but I felt like the inference was hey we’re all trying to build this thing together you’re the best you need to be

Doing more to promote the sport like they all are absolute sour grapes oh I might be putting no okay well if you no maybe well well if that’s a Vibe you got from it then that’s the vibe you got from it yeah I mean it wouldn’t surprise me

Because there’s guys on there saying oh you know my you know my kids you know it’s hard coming the race cuz my kids and this and well like you know all the other was more than that like there were guys saying like you know I do podcasts

I do a video series I do a I do a movie thing and it’s like a lot of it’s around this series and and that’s good for the series I me I side a bit I would I side a bit with with them like yeah 100% like

Like imagine if he he was producing even just had a GoPro on or I like something like that give people a bit more insight into into this there’s clearly a massive demand for it probably but I’m sure if the guys saying that were as good as him

And had the potential to win and didn’t need to do it for for whatever financial reasons or whatever they’d throw it away in a heartbeat and go win the whole series yes I mean yep yeah I I I think he’s doing plenty of good for the series and for this by staying there

Not going and joining joining a European team and having just a freak doing freak numbers that everyone just kind of it’s adds this Mystique maybe the fact that he doesn’t do really put that much out there um to be fair like he’s been on the trainer Road podcast some of the

Ones I’ve listened to so he does do some stuff but you know maybe having him sort of tucked away and no one really knows too much about him adds to this sort of batman-esque sort of bad boy thing and and and the series are playing up to it

For the thing and now we’re talking about it and he’s kind of like the the bad boy I would like to see that next year I would I would like to see them like just even if it’s not there just totally build him up as a complete

Everyone wants to take him down but he just keeps winning and then like in the last round you know treky comes through and just just beats him on the line and perfect there’s collusion amongst the other Riders to try and to yeah I mean I think that would that would capture

Because that was that going back to the core of what actually hooked people on drive to survive it was the fighting amongst the drivers that got everyone like oh my God these guys hate each other this is awesome M like I’d kind of like to see that as well but um

Interested you mention Brendan joh I’ve got to call him Brendan joh Johnson we got this quite a few times in the past when we when we talked about it use his name Brendan Johnson I thought he came he came across as like the star of the show when it came to the athletes

Stories uh obviously following him coming across from Australia the the low points of a lot of the races and then sort of pulling it together and managing to to to get some results and it it managed to I think gather you hear a lot about athletes talk about

Sacrifice and you kind of hear professional athletes talk about sacrifice and it’s like oh they didn’t go out on the piss with their mates for a couple of months like what that’s not sacrifice I I think with this it kind of managed to gather the kind of sacrifice

Of what he had in Australia or has in Australia the risk that they took and with the they didn’t even know or they don’t know what the reward is if there even is a reward ultimately with with this thing I kind of thought that came across really well mhm

Um the last thing I’ll say about this and I realized this kind of broad chat about about the the whole thing but in every episode there was this whole thing about trying to legitimize the series in comparison to every other cycling event you would always hear them talking about

It like in the first one they’re talking about oh we’ve got all these International people are now here so you can totally tell that it’s a you know people really care about this or you might then go into they’ll try and big up the the actual performances themselves like the the power numbers

Are comparable to this or you might have World Tour Pros talking about like how good the level is and this sort of stuff and then even towards the back end of it when you had Cass cassad turn up and as the gravel world champion and she was

Writing it and they kind of saying look this legitimizes us playing I honestly think just ditch that narrative and Just Go With It guys you you don’t need to prove yourself on a physiological level to anyone what the product that’s seemingly being produced is is successful I think it’s

Sustainable from a distance and it’s we’ve discussed a little bit about this I kind of feel it is it’s scalable as well like you can take it anywhere it can be a little bit more of a a thing m M um so kind of leave the whole oh yeah

We do matter because of this or yeah we do matter because of this behind and just just make yourself a big deal and don’t worry about it yeah yep yeah that’s that’s fair I mean and that’s what people people care because they’re professional athletes who desperately want to win

That’s the that’s the story whether they doing five wats per kilo for 5 hours like no one actually cares that’s watching I mean maybe a few like I do but you know people watching don’t mind so I think yeah definitely agree do you think the the timing of how they’ve

Released it is a problem it was a bit far after the events have happened and that they seemingly pulled it all out quite quickly yes and no uh it’s it’s interesting like I watch a lot of this stuff um so the Six Nations uh rugby just released their drive to survive on

Netflix um tennis breakpoint just released their second series of their drive to I should actually a swing I think it’s called a full swing or serving or something I can’t remember what it’s called they’ve just released their ones as well so there seemingly is a reason there doing it at this point

You’re right I I kind of think the the full dump was a bit of a mistake just because you you’d love to see it over you know 2 or 3 weeks or something build a bit of hype that way um the timing’s weird maybe it’s in preparation for the

Next year to try and build the hype for for as it kicks off cuz that’s why I was kind of a little confused because I’m sort of if if this is a drive to survive style it takes a lot of time to edit and put together so it’s fine that it gets

Uploaded later uh as long as it’s not intending to be like a race highlight style thing which I don’t think it is so it’s probably not it’s probably not a problem but that’s what this is this I don’t think this is the for the races to

Watch this is like kind of for me really as someone from a distance watching it like it’s a popcorn viewing type thing um and that’s why I kind of said double down on getting your race content footage somehow accessible to us as soon as this actual event happens for those

Sad people that will sit there and probably watch 3 hours of Leadville unfold like I would like to see that I don’t know how the hell you’re going to do it but yeah sing on YouTube so noral did another of his DIY at home testing videos they’re getting better and better

Just good better and better this time now first off bang it’s five and a half minutes he’s just he’s gone screw the algorithm I don’t no that’s it I’m just giving you in five minutes that’s it so fair play he hasn’t gone the 8 minutes or 20 minutes or an hour like us

Dribbling on he’s just basically showing us the results so what he’s done is he’s tested 42 CM wide handlebars against 37 CM white handle in a reaction to you criticizing him late last year I might point out oh okay hold on okay what what was this in reference because then you

You sent in a me I’m bringing this up for a reason because you sent in a message on your high horse like oh I loved watching that video Jeff you know the the narrow bars weren’t faster what am I forgetting something you ripped him for we had this

Chat um when Jeff and Tyler and Dylan were on the show last year we had a chat about I don’t know how it ended up but we ended up talking about barwidth and we went around what was using and he said he was using 42s and you laughed at

Him you legitimately laughed at him say oh you know the cool kids now are going down to 38 blah blah blah and the the conversation continued on and here we are mhm he’s he’s reacted to your reaction and it’s 4 seconds you know you don’t find 4 seconds everywhere Chris

That’s that’s that’s a 4 seconds all right let’s can we should we dig into it a little bit okay sure okay so what did you think the results were going to be before you watched it did you have a thought yeah I thought it would’ be in

The 30 second room 30 second okay so it’s pretty I mean it’s 4 seconds over 15 minutes is like nothing so can I just say the reason that I thought that it would be that big is because I have ridden 30 uh 30 sevens and I’ve ridden

40 almost measured 42s in the last 6 months both those bi widths and when I ride those wider ones I feel like I’m driving a bus I I feel like I’m on there going I’m just soaking up air everywhere and I haven’t got any data to say this but I just feel

Like I’m riding slower I feel the same you got a narrow BS you go [ __ ] can I just I think this is where you’re starting to see when you’re comparing uh aerodynamic changes this whole wind tunnel Watts verse actual reality oh here we go okay I got a

Couple of examples strap yourself in first he’s running at 22 M an hour so it’s like under 35k an hour he did a similar test about a year ago comparing kits comparing jerseys versus skinsuits so he had a Raa Jersey and bibs and then rode

In the rule 28 skin suit again for 15 minutes at the same power same speed no difference but I’m telling you you watch someone else’s video and they’ve taken it to the win Tel and they say skin suit saved me 20 watts narrow AB bars six Watts I think

Both can be true in the sense that so I don’t think this is a case of there’s no gain to running a skin suit narrow bars I mean it’s going to be faster this is more a reality of actually when you’re going between 30

And 35 km kilm an hour or 20 and 22 miles hour your aerrow drag actually isn’t that much so running narrower bars or a skin suit or buying a different bike yeah you put it in a wind tunnel and there’s no of Chris’s favorite turbulent air you’re putting into conditions designed to exaggerate

Exactly the thing you’re trying to isolate but you get on the road and you go it’s marginally faster I mean aren’t we back to square one of what we originally said which was at the speeds that you’re riding at most of the time for the average person aerodynamics are

A marginal gain MH not this giant 20 watts here 30 Watts there I mean I said this from day one oh it’s 20 watts faster have you ever ridden with a power meter it’s not 20 wats faster so I think this is this more again another good

Test is at a real world speed and it’s it’s slightly faster hard to kind of tell so is this you coming out of the rabbit hole or have you fallen into the rabbit hole that was already in the rabbit hole because well because this is where you’re right this is where it all

Started potentially on this show no no no I don’t I feel like I never actually fully went into the r oh you were in there you were in there you fell in because this is what this I mean we’ve said this don’t buy a defy don’t buy an aob bike

You’re not riding that fast I mean isn’t that pretty much what we’ve been saying this entire time yes and then you get on with your magazines or Dylan Johnson and they’re frothing over wind tunnel tests and stuff but I this was a nice reminder refresher thanks NorCal of actually the

Speeds you’re writing at these are marginal if you’re well to Pro only 60k an hour they’re not but yeah that’s I think a good reminder of that ly timed as well because it was like a week or two after the tire test which showed actual results that’s big and that’s

That was my biggest takeaway from this was was more along the lines of well hang on so there’s 33 seconds in the the literally the amount of air in my tires compared to an entire rebuilt bike I I’ll take the the rubber anytime yeah

Yep yep so I think um yeah uh fair fair play I I honestly I thought it would be more what do you want to see next cuz clearly okay I’m sick of the aot test you’re not riding that fast the aerodynamics of everything besides your position isn’t that much so the aot

Test I don’t care that much um what else could he test get into the supplements get into the get in there get on that’s what I want to see and it’s just so hard to control though but get on do do a ghetto C test do

Um yeah do that sort of thing uh really high do caffeine um beter alanine I reckon i’ what I’d like to see it’s probably the next could [ __ ] no no not interested what would you like to see I’d like to see The Soloist versus the R5 versus the

S5 on that track so comments on that video someone says do shorter cranks couldn’t give a [ __ ] I don’t know lubed vers waxed chains does anyone does anyone ride a waxed chain for a performance Advantage aren’t we all just riding wax chains cuz they’re so easy to keep clean and it’s

Just a pure Logistics like it’s a win everywhere and the fact that maybe it’s a little bit faster or the same or a bit less does not bother me in any way shape or form I just love how easy it keep clean um all right you know what you

Know I’d see I want to see mhm segue coming segue coming pedal systems yes I’d like to see I’d like to see some pedal systems tested because the reason I bring this up is e Ki which is pronounced eoy eoy eoy uh there’s some little drops around the place of a new

Pedal system being released by them and it’s not normally something I’d get particularly excited about except that actually looks legitimately very different to what’s out on the market at the moment so so this is something that Rona M glin picked out it’s a new prototype pedal system called the

Pw8 P standing for pedal Jesse W standing for watts and 8 standing for an 8 mil axle which okay sounds particularly uninteresting but if you actually look at the images of it it’s like a almost like a skeleton of an actual pedal very very minimal and the cleat there’s there’s no proper images

Of this cleat at the moment you can see the guys standing there in their shoes and it honestly looks like they’re running Mountain bik cleats that are like what’s yeah not incensed recessed recessed that are recessed into their into their shoes so so I don’t know I

Mean that actually does look like it would take quite a big chunk from underneath your foot and potentially be of interest climing 8 watts here that doesn’t actually surprise me like if you look at the shoe there you talk about how much they go on about bers and

Things slowing you down by bits and pieces and maybe that’s eight Watts being four time 4 Watts or sorry four time 2 would be the other thing eight wats of Arrow savings Okay so your cleat recessed so it’s more Arrow lower stack height so you can

Lower your saddle so you a bit more Arrow uh okay sure I mean we’ve on we’ve been on the same freaking pedals for for for God knows how long I’m yeah let’s go I’m in it does sort of feel like that’s the next component you know what I mean like we’ve had bars

Stems yep uh cranks we’ve kind of helmet saddles got cut out we’re all done that y what’s been left alone for ages the pedal the poor old pedaling it’s waiting it’s waiting for the I’m interested get one out to Jeff test it is Jeff this the

New go out there none of these none of these wind tunnel none of this just get it to Jeff get out there Jeff’s circuit in his backyard y I do want to talk about biane at some point though because people did send me on the pictures of that there they finally realized or

They’ve listened to us and they painted up the new bianes in a really nice Celeste colorway and I got sent that by almost everyone yeah and they sent that on to me and I must admit I did see that and go oh yeah I could totally get around

That that’s kind of what I was saying is you got an ugly frame will you burn Peak burn Peak uh who’s Seth Seth did a video this week um this’s a kind of whole thing on YouTube at the moment about like it is isn’t it people quitting

YouTube Feel sorry for people with 2 million subscribers um yeah like that that’s a thing that people are burning out blah blah blah and he did as usual a very articulately well-presented video about his own content his own channel because he’s kind of in that he’s at

That level like he’s yeah he’s he’s he’s like almost I think he’s second behind gcn yeah yep he’d be the yeah the biggest mountain bike content creator in the world so yeah that’s that’s him basically saying he’s not quitting YouTube however he is um I’m not going to laugh but he’s creating a

Blog basically get a throwback a throwback uh it’s a substack which is yeah essentially a place where he’ll put up his YouTube videos couple of weeks early uh there’ll be some written content on there written reviews um travel type stuff but it will be behind a payall so it’ll be a members

Only subscription based thing okay now yeah well you you’ve also joined a subscription payall service haven’t you can we talk about that mhm can we go into that what have you signed up for so I signed up for escape Collective okay uh two weeks ago okaye trial okay free trial how long as

The trial go for one week oh so you’ve paid for a week uh yes okay so what was that is there something going on there I’m just doing the MTH in my head I was actually thinking like if I’m going to quit this have they given you a free

Week and you’re like trying to pretend I can tell you one I can tell you one company that’s not giving Chris a free anything it was a onee trial and you’re two weeks in so you paid for a week no that was that was Chris doing the math

In his head I think yeah anyway okay um we we’ve talked about them in the past we’re not going to go back over crap like that so let’s just let’s just move on so you’ve paid for a subscription on how’s it how’s it going you getting what you’ve what you’ve paid

For where’s the like I don’t I don’t know Jesse like I don’t I don’t know what and this is what I I didn’t even know how to talk about this because ultimately the reason I signed up for this in the first place was I I really value Rona

Mclin’s content that he does some of the Articles a lot of the content we end up talking about can sometimes be something that he’s written or it can be it can be something that we disagree with which I think was the case with um the time tral

One yeah the time TR one last year but anyway it’s normally good stuff to talk about and so I I’m I’m happy to to follow that yes am I getting value for paying for ronan’s articles probably I mean I I I don’t know okay so here’s my problem right so

Burn Peak s of go all right we want struggling to get enough income we’re going to do it payward service you get your videos two weeks early and you get a Blog Escape Collective similar thing we don’t want to have ads so we’re going to do we’re going to do a payward

Service and my problem with the whole thing is that on a caseby casee basis sounds good what five bucks a week and you get access to all the Articles and your podcast and it’s all good and that’s awesome burn Peak pay oh I get access to the sub stack and I can see

The videos early into community and that’s awesome that is just not a sustainable option for for media as a whole because what’s going to happen you’re on YouTube what if NorCal pay walls this stuff and then Chris Miller pay alls his stuff and then B ba

And then it’s five bucks it’s nothing oh it’s five bucks I want to watch him that’s five suddenly then you’re paying $200 a month to access all the stuff you used to access for free so and that’s why I don’t like it because it’s it’s this case

Of if everyone did it it’s not going to work it only works if a few people do it so that everyone only has a couple of subscriptions and then the other people find a different way to to keep their content coming out and keep it sustainable so that’s why I don’t like

It I mean in theory it sounds great we produce content pay us a small fee and you support us directly independent unbiased but it’s entirely unsustainable because how imagine if everyone you watched on YouTube you you paid $3 to watch a video you’d go broke so I

Thought about this and I was actually was almost tempted to message Ronan about this and say hey look like your content’s great like why can’t why can’t you go at a why can’t you be Ronin mlin YouTube channel why can’t you do what Ben Delaney’s done and and be a quote unquote freelance

Cycling journalist content creator and and take on board that yourself open it up to to in front of the paywall is that what you do you break the payall down you get in front of it you know what I’m saying right why can’t you do that and so I’m

Thinking like well I know why he can’t do that because he’s probably got a mortgage Bill to P he’s got bills to pay and he’s got a family and like as much as maybe in 5 10 years he might be able to build up enough cach a to do a

Relationship with it but that’s not that’s not realistic like who’s how’s he going to get to the tour Down Under And do Pit walks if it’s just off the bat of I don’t know ad revenue from YouTube it’s it’s not going to happen so I totally hear what you’re saying that and

I do agree with you that you know if Cade all of a sudden turned around and had a pay wall on it then great well what’s what’s next we all person I just sto watching I I cannot think of anything that if it was only accessible behind the pay

Wall that I’d be paying to watch or listen to and I know this this comes across sometimes as like in bit inside baseb when we talk about this stuff but I do genuinely think this this matters because this is the way we consume like we’ve already basically lost racing as

Such to The Ether certainly in this country and in the US that we’re not going to be able to see and if you then lose the content creators behind pay walls and that’s another thing that that steps away I do I I mean I would say the

The the pay wall stuff or paying for something I’m not against it if it’s offering something that you’re you weren’t getting before so let’s say uh uh Lantern Rouge do a do a pay wall but it’s not just you get the video early and you know you’re not getting anything

You just getting a video week ear well just wait a week and I’ll watch it the normal time but if they produced extra content and you were paying for that then that I don’t have a problem with if they had a once a fortnite had a Subs paid only

Episode that wasn’t going out to everyone else I don’t have a problem with that at all the problem is that’s also not sustainable because everyone is is kind of spending all their time already just producing the stuff that they’re already putting out to then create a whole other product which are

Producing content for only the people that are paying most people don’t have enough time to do that anyway so that’s also not a good option um so yeah that’s my um that’s my thing I mean like the burn Peak example they get the videos two weeks early and the only thing that

You’re getting if you pay for from what I saw that you wouldn’t get otherwise is the blog post the substack which that’s fair enough it’s something extra that you’re getting um so yeah that’s that’s what I think yeah just on the burn Peak thing and I would I would very much um

Aren’t you surprised he made a video like that most people even just discussing that like most people are already work their jobs they just watch a burn Peak video because he’s reviewing 10 Cool Tools I bought on on um freaking AliExpress and it’s entertaining 10 minutes it’s like they

Don’t care about like the the minations of your media business and like have you watched any of these I’m quitting YouTube videos I watched them because I’m I’m interested in but I I’m not I wouldn’t expect that like you know someone that’s not producing content would be in any way

Interested in it or even buy into like a some sort of pity story yeah but cynically the reason he’s doing that is to set up the move so he I mean if he’d just suddenly set up this substack in in two weeks time and going I everyone pay

Over here everyone I imagine his audience would just go what’s this yes so he did need to set the criteria for it um and why it happened and like I would definitely suggest people go and watch that video I just don’t agree so what he was what what he said was that

The YouTube algorithm now really likes long form videos anything over about 20 minutes I just don’t think that’s the case I mean I go on to my homepage uh it’s full of stuff that’s 10 minutes 6 minutes 8 minutes 5 minutes I I just don’t even think

That’s true maybe with the ad revenue from the actual videos it would be because you’re listening for longer but I I mean I I mostly get recommended videos that are under 10 minutes all right guys let us know your thoughts um yeah the future of this sort of content

Behind pay walls in front of pay walls let us know I I’m interested to see what people think I reckon it’s going to be really split they’ll be I think there will be a big contingent of people well in the comments on this video just watching the video that don’t have a

Problem with it and kind of and don’t mind it um I feel like that’s going to be actually probably a a majority of people that don’t mind the payward stuff um yeah that’s that’s that’s what I think I feel like it’s there definitely are like no you you do you like support

Yourself like you do that yeah but it’s like yeah but not everyone like it doesn’t work anyway I’m not going to go on that rabbit hole again but this brings on to another thing another topic I got is the Untouchable topic ah so just like I said there where there’s

Going to be this majority of people that are probably really supportive of like you you you know like go independent and we’ll support you and and this and that right there’s other similar topics like that which are just we’re going to call them the Untouchable cycling topics Untouchable in the sense that you

If you say anything against them you’ll just get berad on or they just get such overwhelming support uh that it’s it’s just you know you don’t dare say anything different let’s go through they’re more annoying than this okay because the these are also topics that sound controversial or sound

Like uh anti-establishment but they’re not actually they’re actually what everyone’s thinking and you know the reaction’s going to be yeah you go man you stand up for us you’re not actually standing up for us all right the first one is and we’ve seen this and I stand by this is the

Most militant group of cyclists out there it is the do-it-all bike oh I mean heaven forbid you have two bikes and they both perform better in their individual categories you get I mean you get absolutely roasted I will direct anyone who wants to go have a look at

These comments to the Instagram real that we did with GC that I think I put up about 6 months ago now it’s a real whatever it’s clickbait that’s what they do but the comments are it’s you know when when people disagree with us normally they just disagree with us and

Give us the alternate version yes when they disagree with us on the Do-it all bike we are the scourge of humanity for suggesting someone actually gets a bike that they that suits their exact criteria and exact needs we are elitist we are Gatekeepers we are everything that is wrong

With clicky cycling groups basically so the so the flip side so there’s always a flip side of these so the flip side of this is if you want to make a video that people are just going to go yes come on is just make a video saying the one bike

That does it all the quiver killer you will just everyone will just get all around it and that’s so that’s why say anything bad against a Do-it or bike is the Untouchable topic that’s that’s the first one 100% oh even and even the one person that stands up for you like

That might go oh I don’t actually want to ride that at my local crit and be go yeah but you haven’t it’s not all about the bike it’s all about the legs you’ve got so it doesn’t even matter yeah even the person defending that comment it’s

It’s not even worth it I realized it’s probably our bread and butter but MH suggesting marginal gains matter I don’t know yep like yeah we okay this one’s maybe not as Global as the others because it depends what crowd you’re in but there’s a definite

Side of YouTube where if we yeah if if you discuss how you know you went from a 40 to a 60 mil deep wheel and you really felt that you were going2 km hour faster that you just it’s just it doesn’t matter it’s about the legs I’ve got a

1996 rally that fits 21s and it’s it’s within 2K an hour so just shut up that so marginal gains definitely Untouchable topic but from the sense that you can’t say that yeah saying that they matter what’s way more YouTube friendly is to sort of shoot down a marginal game yep like that’s yep

That’s and that’s what I kind of mean about like sometimes you get this stuff where I feel like okay they’re standing up for the little guy or it’s you know oh you you you tell the industry man that ceramic speed jockey Wheels aren’t worth it like no one actually really thinks

That it’s bling whatever and now I’m going to say on this one people will probably point out that we’ve done the exact opposite of this in this exact chat by saying well nal’s thing that the you know Arrow at that speed doesn’t matter I I’m what I’m going to say is

What we’re kind of getting at is if you’re having a conversation about you know the giant Propel is you know the SLA it’s actually six wats lower than an S5 right in in that context it’s just then when that person comes in and then kind of shrouds it over with oh but I’ve

Got to you know that sort of thing it’s the reason why I think it’s an Untouchable topic is it breaks the context barrier and you’ll just no matter what context you’re saying it in it’s just it’s it’s it’s much more friendly to just go Mar

Oh no just you know ride what you got and it’s good enough the only other one I was going to say and again this is one of these context ones MH is Untouchable topic is to suggest that money being spent on research and development on a bike frame

Or something technology wise is worth it oh okay so because the comeback is just so easy and so lame and so standing up for the little guy of no professional cyclists are so out of our world why do we need a bike that’s two Watts faster at 45 km an hour blah

Blah blah blah which is cheaper make them cheaper it’s so true it is yeah but it doesn’t it doesn’t negate the fact that someone writing in the world to a needs the R&D I but yes you you are you were right so what what I’ll say is if let’s throw

Out some channels here if you want to if you’re kind like guys what the hell are you talking about do yourselves a favor go to Dylan Johnson and read his comment comment section then go to Cade the the Cade media podcast and read their comment section and it is like you’re

Doing a different it’s you’re doing a different sport on one hand you’ve got I I would say the the the comments in that sort of UK scene with the Cade media thing is more like they’re kind of feeding into these Untouchable topics where like oh did you see they talked

About that oh that doesn’t matter I think like that that crowd eat it up with a spoon and a knife and a fork um and then yeah then the the Dylan Johnson crowd are just like so far down the rabbit hole um whether they realize it or not we

Don’t know but I think that’s where you see that audience difference I think on our show I honestly think we get both like you go through the comments if we talk about tech stuff and it’s like we’ll get like you can tell where they come from it’s like that’s a Dylan

Johnson comment next they’ve somehow come over here from Cade and it’s literally comment after comment are just Polar Opposites and so I think we kind of seem to catch both a little bit I would say if anything what side do you think we sit on if you had to pick towards Dylan

Johnson or towards Cade I read all the comments I don’t reply obviously to many of them because a lot of the time it’s a statement and it’s like okay cool you’ve said your statement awesome thumbs up and reading them I I I always feel that’s about 6040 60 being leaning more towards

Performance I want to know a bit more about it I check out this wind tunnel result here that was interesting that was interesting and then there’s the 40 who are probably a bit more like just ride your bike faster don’t worry about it type thing like oh my bike from 10 years

Ago is as good as yours shut up mhm cool yep but yeah you’re probably more that person okay yeah I think that’s probably fair I like that we’ve got an even split I think the point of this show is to to capture just to kind of comment on both

And not really go either way so I I feel that’s fair which out of the two of us are we are we both in the same place or are you more I would say well you let me know I think at heart I’m more Cade 100% but I just for entertainment purpose

Will dabble with the Dylan Johnson for just for you know for fun no what do what I what are you what H I’m very I think I flip-flop from week to week I just I go with the flow on it um okay I reckon I’m I’m performance but without the actual

Data that’s that’s how I see myself all the effort like yeah a wax chain would be nice but I’m not getting a crock and putting wax in there you go yeah yeah y yeah so want the aerrow bike cuz it makes it holds its speed faster yeah yeah like that’s that’s kind

Of I spend six hours on the forums going through it no like yeah yeah yep all right what do you got coming up this week you back on the bike or where are we where are we at H coming up this week um it’s my mom’s birthday Thursday so

We’re doing a family dinner um and then Saturday I got to take the dog for a walk um and I might clean I’ll probably do a clean of the house we got to do a tidy up so Thursday morning is that what you wanted to know yeah well I see I see

This comment every now and again like guys you should you know start with some personal banter be great to hear I don’t care what you’re doing whatever I’ve got no interest in what you’re up to now the kids Chris yeah actually kids go back to school tomorrow there you go there’s

There’s an update there’s an update and Catherine is going to start some swimming so here’s the thing this is an update uh so we’re dumping AFL from next um so we’re not going to do AFL AFL well we’re just we’re just AFL at this age um

But she’s going to start swim Squad mhm this is a danger i’ because I know a few swimming swimmers and I know a few swimming parents and if she I’m fingers crossed she’s not any good I mean I know she’s can swim and she’s like pretty capable

But hopefully she’s not good why not well that’s a total you think cycling parents are a thing wait till get into swimming parents that’s a whole are they as bad as tennis parents they’re in the same ballpark but swimming parents you could the stuff starts at like 5 a.m.

And things like this so Squad training all that so that’s going to kick off and actually after we record today we go to taekwondo or mixed martial arts oh okay cool oh thanks that was really I really enjoyed this segment show yeah thanks for that and on that note we will uh see

You next week J see you Then