In 2014, Sam Gaze was a privateering teenager from a rural farming town in New Zealand when he took the men’s title in the opening round of an eliminator World Cup in Australia. With this breakout ride, he caught the eye of Specialized Racing and relocated to Europe, where he’s gone on to claim five world titles, including U23 World Champion and Elite Marathon and Short Track World Champion. He now races for UCI team Alpecin–Deceuninck where he competes in the WorldTour as well as the World Cup.
Payson sat down with Sam in Girona to talk about breaking Nino Schurter’s record-setting winning streak in the opening round of the 2018 World Cup, being mentored by Christoph Sauser, and how winning the World Championship in 2016 with his dad at the finish was the best day of his life. But they also discuss the low points, such as the infamous moment at the 2018 Commonwealth Games when his spur-of-the-moment reaction toward an opponent sparked a media frenzy. The experience intensified his ongoing struggle with depression and caused him to take a hiatus from cycling for much of 2019. Now, after several years with Alpecin-Deceuninck, he has his sights set on the 2024 Olympics.
Chapters:
00:00:00 Living in Girona and moving to Europe at 17
00:06:32 Growing up in rural New Zealand and getting into cycling
00:12:29 His breakout ride at World Cup eliminators in 2014
00:18:21 Crashing out of first World Champs
00:23:18 Meeting mentor Christoph Sauser
00:30:37 Getting diagnosed with depression
00:33:22 Becoming U23 World Champion with his dad at the finish
00:41:07 The controversy and harassment following his 2018 Commonwealth Games win
00:49:14 Parting ways with Specialized and coming to terms with his mental health
00:56:14 Joining Alpecin–Deceuninck and Olympic goals
01:09:58 His elite world titles
01:16:46 Whiskey 50 memories and U.S. gravel goals
Cool man thanks for doing this that easy rainy day in Jona um really rainy day what have you been getting up to today rest day so just yeah sorting things out rest day is you what I say before is usually some of the busiest days so this morning uh bike maintenance oning some
Things out for the rest of the week make sure it’s close enough um yeah boring my altitude tent that I have is up in Endora at the moment so boring out of tent of a of a guy here and getting that set up and yeah just bit Groundhog Day
At the moment eh like just basically that’s what winter is just lots of work short days um lots of thinking about the next season and yeah man we happening yeah so you do you have a place in Andora yeah I got apartment up there so I’m between uh Andor and Jona so usually
The W is like it is then drone as a bit of a safe haven from the snow and stuff um and also this time of the year there’s plenty of people about and good groups to go on riding with and TRS are in much better condition and not under
Snow so yeah usually Jon is the go to over winter yeah yeah I did a is it o betet Loop yesterday where you go up to Comon oh sick and around and it was my first time like kind of getting up into the Pines properly and I was just like
Man I could definitely post up here for a while oh bro it’s unreal like camper Dawn I did a ride out there a couple years ago with some mates in the offseason it was like 5 and 1 half hour epic yeah and like the last clim we end
Up walking the last like yeah half an hour 20 minutes maybe longer that’s just my memory now so maybe it was longer at the time but got to the top and like the the cloud cover was about 100 m under the hill we’re on so it was just like a
Sea of cloud and then we bomb down on the bikes and as you’re going through the the cloud cover it’s like literally 5 or 10 m of like visibility as you’re going and we’re hauling and I was just thinking like if we catch a cow or
Livestock like we are dead me so it was sick but yeah the whole area like we’re so privileged and so blessed to be riding here like cost the Bravo on the roads drivers are really considerate in Spain um something that’s not so common in New Zealand uh and yeah just yeah the
Landscape the Mountain bik Trails everything it’s full package so pretty stoked to be living here to be honest yeah it is unreal it’s almost I mean for me I almost feel guilty for doing five Road rides in a row and not getting out on the mountain bike because I know the
Mountain biking is so good but then the road riding is so good you just it it’s almost like overload in terms of the potential yeah um how long have you been here so yeah it’s in Jona in this area since basically 2018 uh before that you
Know like I was uh I lived in Austria well I’ll go back to the start actually just my whole European cuz just chopping changing so much but so I first decided I want to come over to Europe and race mountain bikes when PO for the first
Proper campaign I did was my last year under 19 so when I 17 before that I did uh the F my first world championships in Leo gang on the XC back in 20 2012 yeah time flies time does fly um and so yeah the next year I decided like
I got 40 ccit the worlds I was like 9 minutes down but I still thought I was going to be good or thought I could still do something you I still believed in so uh a great guy Adan retif uh he was traveling as well that year in in
Europe he was a kiwi guy um and so I traveled with him and we BAS basically just lived out of a car and traveled from race to race and towards the end of and it was some of the best memories I’ve ever had to be honest like uh so
How you were 18 at this point 17 jeez yeah so actually probably my most one of my most memorable memories in life while definitely with the sport anyway I was we did the Endor and World Cup uh and yes 2013 so Endor and World Cup and we were staying with people actually become
Really important to me now uh with the salesman uh um it’s a Austrian family yodok the brother uh good friends of him and absolute Legend of nice people you ever meet um and so they offered us to stay there for a week we were going back
To the Andora from landora cup there and Adrian was the only one who was able to drive cuz I was too young I fell asleep in the car after the race and yeah I woke up 1:00 or so in the morning I was in the driver on the passenger seat and
The driver’s doors open no Adrian and I’m just like all right this is isn’t normal like let’s try to find out where Adrian is and I got out of the car and looked up and it’s like full White Cliffs and it was full moon or I
Remember being able to see a bit but it was Pitch Black basically and I could just see the White Cliffs and then I realized I was like INF finale L girl and so on the right of me I looked and there’s Adrian sleeping on one of the
Beach dishing ju no way water yeah yeah so I just remember sitting there thinking like wow this is living like I’d be in high school back in New Zealand if I wasn’t doing this and this is [ __ ] sweet so yeah it was it was cool um but then yeah towards the end of
That year I went back to the sales we went back to the salesman to hang out and they said oh what are your plans for next year and I was S I don’t know and they said all right you stay with us and it was a lot of the reason why I’ve got
To be yeah have the career that I’ve had is because of that family um and so I went there and I end up living there for two years or two seasons uh was absolutely amazing I took some adjustment like I tried to do my laundry
And I wasn’t allowed to I was trying to do dishes and I wasn’t allowed to and they just the hospitality was incredible um and so I lived in uh Doran Austria for a couple years when I was racing uh this was when you were were you on
Specialized Factory yet at this point no not yet so it was my first my last year as a privateer I lived with them um and then my first year as a pro was specialized um but no it was amazing and then I couple years on I’d s of
Specialized i’ yeah got quite close with my teammate Simon and Dron we decided to move into each other in fryberg in Germany uh we know a lot of guys from there and so yeah did a year in fryberg Germany and yeah we yeah us two youngsters trying to
Organize anything um yeah we thought we had an apartment in fryberg but we had an apartment and some small village like 25k away from fryberg yeah so we just camped out there basically and did the season uh and then yeah obviously after that we’re both wanted to do different
Things and I had a lot of mates down in Jona so I came down here mid-season break in yeah 2017 it’s a bit longer than two years I was in W yeah um decided I loved it and yeah 2018 I came down here and yeah man that’s wild yeah
I want to talk a little bit about how you got to be that 17-year-old that was sleeping in your vehicle trying to make the dream work cuz you grew up or I don’t know if you grew up but you were born in a sounds like a really small
Town in the middle of the north island of New Zealand yeah uh little farming Community kind of yeah 12,000 14,000 people right yeah yeah so I was born in a place called TOA in New Zealand um it’s it’s yeah it’s a small farming town uh to be honest I actually lived on a
Dairy farm all my well did dairy farms all my life so you know like it was in the back of nowhere but we just went to the town if we needed supplies or something like this uh and yeah just had a pretty conservative start to life
Basically he like my first I went to a school to called tou school for my first school and I was only there for a year cuz usually how it works in farming is you move on every 3 years and my dad was manag in the management role of farms
And like to keep moving every 3 years not to get too stale um and so then I went from Toot school that probably off top my head probably like 300 pupils 200 or so and I went out to place called panoi Road out back in newtoni uh and
That school had six students six yeah three of them were me and my brothers so literally gays boys took up half the the school population um and so yeah but it was free to roam bro like it was pretty sick like we had days with the the local
Motorbike shop came out and had to let us have test guys on the motorbikes repping up the school field um R my bike to school every day and had under the deck out the back literally was free to roam so it was uh yeah it was a pretty
Cool experience actually but yeah from there um I went to hamilt I went to yeah just a normal Intermediate School uh surrounding town called tiu and then to Hamilton boys which big city big High School uh pretty traditional boys only uh semi-private so that took some
Adjustment for sure uh they had a good cycling program there so was able to start getting into it from there and then yeah decided that uh well my dream to be the fastest I could be on a bike was since I can remember you know like
Literally my first memory is 3 years old crash in a motorbike that I got for the first time so yeah I’ve always wanted to do it but then when I went to Hamilton boys I actually had a bit more of a pathway and a bit more idea of how I was
Going to do it you know yeah was there a role model model that made you dream of being a pro cyclist or how did that even make it onto your radar I mean in New Zealand there’s certainly some amazing cyclist that have come there does George
Bennett still live in Jona by the way yeah he’s mostly up in Endor now I think the moment yeah so I mean there’s plenty of kiwis that have made it big but um I wouldn’t call it a national sport from what I can tell like that’ obviously be
Rugby why do you think the bike was the thing that that Drew you in um my dad you know planning simple uh my dad was my hero still is um and yeah so when I started I we started at Motocross I was got my first motor yeah just 3 years old
Like I said and we got into Motocross as a family and went along there uh it got too expensive for the family and so we turned the push bikes little do we know it’s going to be even more expensive yeah so true and yeah dad used to he’s a
King uh amateur sist from New Zealand and you know to be honest I think he could have been quite good if he picked it up young but you know he got into it late 20s uh in effort to stop smoking uh which actually was a yeah a bit of a
Healthy hobby for him which turned into a bit of an obsessive one so yeah eventually you know I got into the domestic scene and I started yeah racing the mountain bike just the national cups and so forth from under 17 under 15 age group but then you know the school boy
Racing on the road was quite an easy pathway and you know two of my best mates Well my two best mates were both racing back then at the same time um and so we did that a lot together and that was the easiest way and then so basically the mountain bike was just
More of a a fun part of it and the road racing was really serious for me in school boys and then uh yeah the more I got on I actually I went to yeah my first ever time representing the country was this road stage race in uh Australia
And I won the king of the mountains Jersey wouldn’t catch me doing that now 20 kid but then I actually realized then that I’m not going to be good enough to go professional on the road um huh and so yeah I was what do you mean you you
Realized like what was there a moment where you just got frustrated and yeah I mean it was on the mountain bike if you’re good you’re good you know and like let’s say you’re with one or two Riders if you’re the strongest you can get away from it you know uh on the road
It’s just such a dense field and there’s so much quantity of good bike riders um and so I really struggled to have the confidence in myself to be able to make a difference in that and so I thought the mountain bike was going to be it um
Cuz yeah I mean there were some great Riders back then that I used to race like there’s a guy called Jack Edwards he wasn’t racing anymore but he was around the same age as I was his Australian guy but this guy was incredible and I remember doing like
This race called yure it’s like this it’s like the junior tour of southin and tour of southin is like the biggest race in New Zealand every they call it the fourth Grand Tour down there you know and I was doing y tour and Jack we’re coming to a bunch Sprint and I watched
There a massive Australian kid and I I watched him weave his way through like 20 guys and then win the spring going up the Middle with a bunch and I just like I’d never be able to do that so then like things like this just like a yeah
I’m not making it so then I turned back to the mountain bike and yeah I had some great battles in New Zealand with some guys like you know kyl Jones uh he was one of the top writers in the country uh had some great battles with him he was a
Few years older than me um and then obviously Anton we raced quite a lot as uh youth category back there and then yeah came up to Europe and here we are yeah so the first memory I have of you the first time I became familiar with
Your name uh I don’t remember what year it was it had to have been a world Champs cuz I remember you were in a a New Zealand kit uh and it was an Eliminator race and it was it was back in the day I guess it would have been I
Don’t think it was free Caster days that would have been before your time a little bit must have been early days of redb TV Rob Warner was announcing um and you you were this like rain pretty skinny like gangly New Zealand kid that was just not getting knocked
Out you just kept coming through the rounds kept coming through the rounds and I just remember thinking who is this kid cuz there were pretty well-known Riders doing eliminators at that point and uh you were just kind of like this dark horse that at least for me as
Someone that was a fan of the sport like I wasn’t familiar with their with your name I was just like who is this kid and you I think you had to have been like 18 19 do you remember what this was 18 it’s the king xcc and like yeah just I had no
Idea what I was doing I was just yeah basically I was still privateering it and uh yodok uh myself uh Matt waghorn old mate um and a bunch of guys went over to kin to this world cup and The Eliminator was on I I give it a go so it
Was a World Cup yeah it was World Cup you were in National national team Ki cuz you didn’t have a team no basic got it okay that makes more sense yeah I was actually borrowing my ex-girlfriend’s little brothers New Zealand skin suit which was like four times too small for
Me so that’s amazing that amazing but yeah dude so that was when I met Beno Willet who’s the manager of specialized racing great guy um and yeah I was there by myself it was hosing down rain um I had no support I don’t know what I was
Doing um and he decided to take pity on me and just hang out with me and do the race and qualifying I don’t remember what I got but I was in the rounds and yeah just like you said I just wasn’t getting knocked out somehow um and every
Round you get more more Ben I could see Ben I get more and more excited and I don’t know this guy from bars hope at the time and I could just see he’s getting super excited and I was like also getting a bit excited I never
Thought I could actually do it but I was like I’m getting close and close and then don’t know mate just in the final something came over me I just went Harry hard nuts out of the gate didn’t look back and yeah somehow I managed to pull
It off so yeah it was it was sick um and for those that don’t know so this is pre xcc era so before short tracks in the World Cup there were eliminators which are it’s B it’s like four cross uh but instead of jumps and downhill it’s sort
Of like a mini cross country version so there’s rounds of four Riders top two move on bottom two get eliminated and you have these Heats until there’s just a final four left yeah it’s like a minute long race so it’s basically like it’s a minute long or you can go on
Super painful like kind of a screwy format but really exciting yeah and just remember you being this like super rangy it seemed like you were almost a little bit uncoordinated at the time but you could just see like the pure talent just like kind of oozing out of you in a
Way I was like who is this guy you you just kept beating people I was like wow this is amazing yeah I mean I still don’t Rough Around the Edges but I was definitely rough around the edges back then you know like yeah it’s it’s a good
Memory but yeah somehow it worked out and I remember that’s the first time I had champagne on a podum got on my eyes and I was so pissed I forgot my helmet and shoes and the and the doping control really so the manager of the team f I had to bring back my
Shoes and helmet the next day um but yeah I remember getting the prize money I spent it straight on Oaky um that is so yeah got some new specs uh and yeah it was just the beginning of the beginning of it all I so what happened so what happened right after that cuz
Beno kind of had to be like oh my God who is this kid that I just stumbled across did conversations start immediately or how did how did the next handful of months play out so he was open arms like obvious I didn’t signed that season but you know he offered his
Support all the races and all of a sudden they’re helping out with the Tech Zone and looking after my bike and stuff um and it was great like he was Beno was a massive part to it that season and we had a lot of conversations throughout the season and you know actually
Bringing it back a little bit actually long time ago now I did know Beno before Ken cuz I under 19 I was a little grommet hanging out the front of the tent trying to get a contract so since that’s how it works kids that’s not how it works that’s not
How it works um but yeah um so I snapped my frame or broke out the bottom uh the bottom bracket of the specialized bik that I paid for uh through the national importer and so they gave me an old frame in under 19 so I was already was
Familiar you know um but then yeah 2014 he just that was the first time that he actually really uh had won this degre separation with my racing was actually able to be there and support it and so then I think hopefully one I’m over with
That short with the X MH um but then yeah he was looking after me throughout the under 23 season and that was my first year as under 23 um and it just went really well like I was still riding my hardtail and I went to the Nova mest
World Cup and somehow got third um where which if I try to do that on a hard tale these days i’ break my back honestly yeah I mean rudest track there is pretty much yeah it’s rough as gots that one um but then yeah just keept supporting and
Then ended up uh com games was that year com games my first com games in Glasgow I got Silva uh this is in U23 this my first year U23 yeah first year and then we had uh the world championships in hefo in Norway that year and I don’t
Know I’ve had it a few times in my my career where just something’s different you know like just the legs don’t hurt and I can go as hard as I like and that well that was one of those days um the first one I actually had and I remember
Getting to that event and I still had my hard tail and it was a rough course and Beno whs out this epic and I said oh can I use it for the I was thought I was just going to use it for the race and
Give it back go no this is yours that was the first free bike I got no way and I couldn’t believe believe it I was like are you sure cuzz I knew like I knew the value of these things cuz I had my bike back paid that I need to pay off the
Next 2 years you know so I knew that it was a big thing that was getting given to me he just gave it to me Willy nly it was actually Todd Wales Old World Cup FR from that no way so I was like sick um so then the race itself I just things
Connected and I was in the leading group and oh I was like C little follow so I had like my gloves that I was siing lap in and I felt so good but I wanted to press the manager s racing so there I am going through T Zone like hands off the
Bars taking my glove off on finger at a time and stuff you know looking back I’m like oh my god um and so then I I attacked with like two and a half laps to go and I was a s Jordan suu Victor kuritzky Michelle Vander Heiden I was in
The leading group and I looked back and I had clear CH uh track and I was leading the world champion of first year in the 23 like two and a half laps to go I’m thinking I’ve done this but in my head I was feeling so good I was just
Like just Sprint everywhere I’d go like screw it why not and then I was throwing down on the jumps like just young Sam in full flight mode um and you had this jump line and then there’s this fast left-handed Corner some rocks on it and I was sprinting through the thing and I
Clipped my ped one of those rocks went over the handlebars and broke my wrist and I was out of the race I don’t remember this that’s crazy yeah it was yeah it was it was a quick change of mentality and so like I tried to get
Back on the bike and get moving Jordan came flying by and I was like oh no I’ve got my bike’s broken try stra my bars I was like on my wrist like I looked at my wrist I was like oh that’s definitely gone you could see that it was broken
Couldn’t see it was puffing up and I could I could feel it was gone um and then yeah I went into the Tech Zone which was literally a minute away and put a tail over my head and cribbed my eyes out and that was that so but then a
Week after that I got my contract from specialized racing um jeez Absol roller coaster yeah absolute roller coaster and yeah to be honest I’m really glad I had it cuz you know my my parents my dad was funding my campaign and my family was funding my campaign but yeah we
Struggling to get by with it and it was literally my last chance before I go get a day job and give up on the dream so if I didn’t get the contract that year I probably would be complete different person right now um really wow yeah so it’s it worked
Out how it did and yeah the next J came over and you know those first that first season 2015 I really adjusting to being a professional athlete cuz yeah you know I was just some Farm Boy From the Bottom of the world who was you rough diamond
And just yeah like I said Rough Around the Edges like I had a lot to learn about being a professional athlete and I learned a lot in 2015 but you know I wasn’t but doing the extraordinary things I was doing in 2014 and it didn’t all really start clicking until 2016 huh
Why do you think why do you think 2015 was a little bit of a harder year cuz it seems like to that point obviously things weren’t coming easily but you found yourself with very little experience in these amazing positions in the middle of races what was it about
2015 that was kind of more challenging I think it was more just getting used to my reality of Life at that point because until then it was a complete different reality of what I had you know like and also yeah I had a lot of stuff going on
When I was in high school and as a kid so I was sort of trying to digest that or start working my way through that as well as being a professional athlete and I was fooled while the rooms I was in were suddenly filled with the world’s
Best athletes yeah and coming into that there was bit of impostor syndrome there was bunch of confidence that I needed to gain and you know externally I think I was quite a confident young guy but internally it was quite the opposite I think so getting used to that was
Definitely a hurdle um and just how how the business structure of professional cycling works you know cuz until then like yeah when you grow up on a farm with six people in your school mate like everyone’s your mate you know where going into the professional bike industry it’s the relationships are
Completely different and different Dynamics there so getting used to that but yeah I had a lot of good times in 2015 but I definitely you know also that yeah 2015 is the year they met Kristoff saler and Kristoff saler has done an incredible amount for me in my career
And a lot of things that I do these days and habits that I have with my training and racing come from Kristoff saler uh he’s my you know he was he started coached me when I was in the team there um basically mentoring me and that was
Really the the beginning of turning me into a professional athlete in a way um and yeah 2016 with him was a lot of fun too so yeah yeah yeah so to race the World Cup full-time obviously you grad your life has to gradually kind of become more European spend more time
Here basee here here you just mentioned that you know your your coach is European a lot of your teammates obviously are based in Europe most of the races are in Europe what was it like to transition away from kind of back country New Zealand humble beginnings farming family all that sort of thing
And um did you kind of have one eye looking back over your shoulder ever or was it so exciting that you were just kind of eyes forward and and and Cha in Chase mode the whole time no I mean that’s probably the biggest challenge one of the biggest challenges I’ve had as a
Professional cyclist is is the where I am and like what I’m doing in Europe and moving my life over here you know like it was definitely something which I didn’t at the time you know it was all exciting and all new and I was off to do this great adventure and beats yeah
Going to high school going to UNI um I did high school but my last year of high school I got my University entrance and left so you know like I was missing out on some things but then it was really exciting what I was doing and you know
Actually as time went on I yeah it was definitely a struggle and it still is a bit of a struggle you know like my family’s back there um my big brother has his family now of has three daughters and amazing wife and parents are getting on and you know like the
Sacrifices that you have to make from New Zealand or other continents to come to Europe sometimes can be pretty big that people don’t necessarily understand um but no I mean it’s definitely hard like friendships for instance uh relationships and a bunch of things like that whole dynamic changes when you’re
On the other side of the world the whole time you know and I’m really lucky I have a really great group of friends and great group of people in my life you know and like a lot of my my close mates back home in New Zealand completely
Understand it these days and I’d like to think they’re quite proud that I’m chasing something which I am um which means a lot and you know family uh relationships that whole dynamic changed and so yeah it’s definitely been interesting um but then you weigh it off with the fact that
Like you know my perspective of life living on the other side and seeing so many different corners of this world and yeah you know that changes also how you think about it and person you are so I’m really grateful for the that perspective it’s given me um of course you know the
Ultimate goal was to go as fast as I can on two wheels but collectively what I’ve gained as an individual throughout this journey has been probably the thing that I remember the most longest you know yeah yeah I want to keep kind of rolling through the the chronology of your
Career a little bit but one question that comes to mind that’s maybe a little bit out of left field is um you know you’re you’re at this phase in your career where you’ve won a whole bunch of races how many world titles do you have now between you 23 and everything
Between you 23 and Elites I got five five so that’s a lot that’s most people don’t ever win one you’ve got five pretty a awesome but you’re chasing this Elite World title obviously which you’ve been this past year closer to than ever before but I also at least for me I
Don’t know that everyone goes through this but I’ve talked to some of my my buddies that race professionally as well about this once you start getting a little bit closer to 30 or you turn 30 different people kind of start uh you’re obviously you’re still very focused on your goals but you maybe
Start having some thoughts about what you’re going to do Post career or maybe it’s not even post career but other other ways you kind of want to carve out a little bit of extra time just to experience the world a little bit more broadly because at this point you’ve
Been fully focused on this dream for a decade right um and clearly you think about like you just mentioned the relationships the sacrifices you have to make all that sort of thing and I think when you’re in your early 20s when you’re a U23 you’re just in full Chase
Mode like you were talking about figuring out the business side you know winning bonus onuses winning jerseys salaries are looking better and better all these different things that’s super exciting but there’s also the human component too of like what am I missing out on um that I think naturally comes
Into any athletes life at some point um you’re I think you’re 28 now yeah so you’ve got plenty of time left as Nino and a few other guys are showing us if you want it um but do you have anything else that’s kind of like and this isn’t
A trick question in any way but do you have any any other interests that are like kind of creeping into your life a little bit or do you find at 28 you’re still able to just be 100% like laser beam focused on on your race goals yeah that’s really good question um yeah
Personally with me right now like I’m like think I’m probably the most focused I’ve ever been in my life with when it comes to it you know like we’re in the yeah the beginning of 2024 and Olympics is coming around and there’s a few
Things I want to do um but yeah I me I mean as far as it goes as life after cycling like I’m not sure exactly what I want to do yet but I’m very conscious of the fact that what I do is a very selfish job you know like professional
Athlete like you’re pretty consumed about yourself and putting yourself first and you know like sometimes you H in the sand and get to work and you don’t think twice about it and the people around you are the ones to pick up the pieces a little bit but you know
After S I definitely want to do something bit more selfless um I always said that after Cy I don’t want anything to do I want to do something else completely different and there’s an element of that because I don’t want my Identity or me to just be the cyclist am
You know like I’d like to try offer more uh to the world and to my friends and family than just the athlete but you know at the same time like it brings me a lot of Joy giving back and seeing younger riters do well you know um and
Maybe that’s something which I would have a lot of passion on enough to cycling uh and yeah maybe that’s something I can step into or help I think definitely I want it to be in New Zealand I interes yeah you know like one of the things that I probably struggle
With the most at the moment is the lack of time I actually get down in New Zealand um you know I I did that because I already started struggling with living on two sides of the world at once almost you know you jump back into one life and
A few months later you’re off again and then every time you get little Snippets of things you know and so from my head and from my mental space it was better for me just to be situated one place and you know it’s a big sacrifice but you
Know after cycling I definitely want to go home and and make a difference to yeah I don’t know 12-year-old Sam uh he’s given it a go for the first time yeah yeah no that totally makes sense um so 20 16 you get that U23 World title right
And then was it 17 you won again back toback years yeah yeah um and so you’re on this pretty amazing trajectory like for someone in your shoes like the best possible trajectory really I it’s it sounds bad man but I I looked up your results and you you won way more racist
Than I even realized I don’t know why I why I missed some of that but just like you know you have the obviously New Zealand national championships you have the Commonwealth Games plenty of medals there all that sort of thing um but one thing that I looking at your results I
Did get a really clear picture of is you’re on this crazy crazy build and then 19 happened and pretty much everything from what I can tell like everything changed um team changed uh trajectory changed really um and you did your course didn’t or your your career didn’t
Change course but it almost like forked a little bit like there became kind of these two pieces so can you kind of describe for us like that the build build build maybe what it was like to kind of be on that curve and then what happened in 2019 at Cape epic yeah okay
Uh yeah I haven’t actually spoken like I’ve given like I wanted to do something back at comw games in Birmingham so I really pushed and made my my performance there on my my race there uh and wanted to push men’s mental health um with that and you know it’s something which you
Know friends and people some people know I’ve I’m quite open about I struggled a lot with it um what do you mean what do you mean for those that don’t know like tell me more about that like what aspects so yeah basically yeah July I’ll explain the
Whole lot but okay July 2019 I was diagnosed with depression um I was actually hearing drona when it happened um but yeah basically when I was yeah I wasn’t having the best time when I was coming up for the u23s and you know L luckily I
Was winning by races and for me that was medicine you know as long as I was winning then it was all good um and I had some great times along the way but I could feel something wild at the time I didn’t know what I was feeling but like
I knew in hindsight now looking back at it I wasn’t feeling right and I was coming to a boiling point but luckily I was still winning and that was masking me a little bit um and 2018 was you know blessing in a curse in a way um you know
I came off you know I had my first world title when 2016 which is the best day of my life um Dad there that was I have to tell that story at some point throughout this podcast cuz that was sick um Go Tell it now and yeah okay we’ll start
There we’ll start tangents are great so yeah so I was yeah back in 2014 or whenever it was my dad said to me hey Sam when I want to come watch your bike race I’m going to have to save for a year or two where do you want me to be
And I was no M World Championship so I got third there on a hard Tower so I was like okay Live to Tell the T yeah I was like come there that’s the place and so 26 I was very motivated the whole season knowing that my dad was coming to watch
Worlds and year started amazing when the first two opening World Cups and was definitely ripping um and about two weeks before my dad arrived I got food poisoning in Doran and lost a whole bunch of weights and couldn’t train I was [ __ ] I was beside myself I actually remember being in
Uh family Family Restaurant of uh the salesman um and Doan there and I was crying over my food thinking that I’d let my dad down you know spend all his money to come over and watch worlds I’m not going to be able to do it for him
And this massive sense of Duty that I need to do it and you know when they got in they went and stayed in Prague for a few days before they went up to no Mesto and I decided I was probably best my head to go spend some time with them um
So I was there in prag my in the center of Prague staying there with Dad and Amanda my my dad’s partner um and one morning I woke up and I told myself I I care if I can go do these one minute Sprints of the SI power I have a chance
H when went out did dens it worked and from that moment forth it was just Mission get this title um and it was just it was electric from then and forth and went out with Dad and Amanda uh to Nova misto and I was just like yeah [ __ ]
Just been in the family like Mana didn’t want to drive and caught the train we got off the wrong train stop it was family drama usually stuff um and yeah got more and more nervous as the day came through got more more healthier but I was still super skinny and just on the
On the limit a bit um and yeah that morning you know like I woke up and it was just like being woken up by an ice buff it was just my lights were on straight away um and I remember sitting in the apartment with Dad and
Amanda there and I had my C my backpack ready to go and I was so nervous I was already crying before I left the hotel room before the race and big hug um Simon my teammate he was standing at the doorway wondering what the [ __ ] going
On and went out to the race and from that moment forth it was just like something came over me you know I was an autopilot I was ready to go and and told Dad that okay on the wall um long straight climbing no mist a lap and a
Half to go I’m going to I’m going to go and not look back and if it’s meant to be it’s going to happen and I was count in the race I was just counting down my Finish Line was that climb and I was count down the laps to that climb and
Who was in the lead group then it was Simon and Dron tan kage Victor kitki and Mar gini was in the front and Simon actually what a legend he was pulling for me straight away from the start and yeah yeah like he keep the speed high
For me and that’s unusual in I mean obviously you guys were on the same team but and I know you’re you’re good good friends but why do you think he was willing to do that just cuz he’s a legend I think he he also wanted to keep
The Pace High and we quite young too I mean I did ask him to so he was D an absolute solid but yeah the race was fast than the start and there was that group of us that was standing together and I still felt electric all way through and I was just
Waiting counting it down times and I went and looked back and I had clear track behind me and it was a lap and a half to go World Championships obviously what happened in Norway as the first down 23d that the back we had little bits and I was going a bit scattery and
You know there’s 20,000 people wrapped around there course that day and the only spot where there’s no one there’s Dad and Amanda parked up there no way and it’s like I’m 12 years old in New Zealand again yeah and I just remember dad got saying to me Karm is anything be
In the moment and that’s all he said and then from that moment forth I was fixed in I don’t know where I was what I was doing it was just tree roote Rock go um and it was like that for the remainder of the race and I remember heading the t
Ma with yeah 200 me to go go over this little bridge and to straight the finish and it was literally like having a heart attack I was almost hyperventilating on the bike you know like realizing what it had done and coming across the line and all like think about was Finding dad and
You know it’s a bit quy but you know there movies when someone’s looking for their lover in a crowd and lock eyes it was literally like that my dad yeah you know it was just he brought over him and the Mana brought over a gift uh greenstone necklace for the uh for the
Sal family and we had dinner together that night the first time theyve met and the S had done so much for me to that point and it was just it was amazing um huh and so yeah it was just that’s yeah that’s it people it’s
My best day of my life oh that’s crazy it’s interesting that you wanted so badly to to win for for him and I mean I I get it based on everything you’ve said thus far in terms of your upbringing and uh the inspiration that he was for you
But because a lot of Young Writers obviously they want to win for themselves they’re chasing the glory the you know especially when there’s a bunch of fans you know it’s amazing to perform in front of thousands of people but the fact that you were that zeroed in on
Doing it for just this one other person is pretty interesting yeah I mean Dad did a hell of a lot and he went through a tough time to support me coming up so I mean it’s the less I can do um and I’m a bit like that you know like obviously
I really like to win for myself and I’m a very competitive individual but you know I actually operate best when I’m feel like I’m riding with someone else almost you know if I believe who I’m writing for what I’m doing then that’s where I probably come out the best and
Well one of the things that really motivated me so it was definitely yeah I was definitely a very special day um so how do you I mean that sounds like an absolute life highlight Beyond almost anything else um how do you come back the next year and and still won it yeah
I raced Elite World Cups since my last year on the 23 and it was pretty inconsistent I mean I made a podium in Andor as U23 on the elites but it was not the most consistent season but you know it was complete different mentality
In Kins it was more you know I had this first time I’ve had this overwhelming feeling of like all I can do now is lose yeah exactly you know like it’s it’s a bit on me but yeah I it’s in good form and everything worked out well in the
Day of the race I mean to be completely honest I was half the rider that I was during the year before huh for me to win if you put no Mesto 2016 Sam in front of me and Ken I would have dusted myself you know like there’s no way I was
Betting what I was the year before but like why is that why do you think you were at a lower level uh I think it was just where I was at I don’t know what it was I mean was definitely very inspired from 2016 and 2017 was more trying to
Get it done um it was definitely good experience for other reasons the first time trying to defend the title uh our title which was came useful in later career um but you know like I definitely remember being on my bed before the race and had a duffel bag with all my worlds
Kit and I put it in a duffle bag and put in the closet I told my team manager at the time like if I don’t win take that out I don’t want to see it you know cuz I was just really there was quite a lot
To take on but it worked out well and mom was there too which was really nice um and yeah it was definitely interesting but then it just LED you know after that it was what else can I do you know cuz obviously it’s quite a lot to back-to-back world champions at
E23 and already podiums e23 Elite World Cups and I Came Out Swinging in 2018 and I won the first Elite World Cup in stallin Bosch uh which was also a very special day and but at that point I was a boiling point like I was not happy um
In my honest opinion I was acting like a bit of an idiot um and then com games and go Coast happened and I had a bit of a slip up there and you know acted actually in a way that was contradictory to how I actually see myself as a person
Um basically yeah what are you good talking about that briefly yeah sure I mean yeah it’s a while ago now and basically is just I was and this is nothing on like yeah to be honest there like nothing to do with Anton in the end
Of the day like a lot of it was just myself trying to be the best I possibly can and Anton was always a bit better than me growing up this is Anton Cooper who’s also from New Zealand yeah long long time uh top World Cup guy yeah yeah
Um really good B rer and yeah like there was we had a few scuffles like as racing and we super competitive with each other and I felt in myself that I lost Glasgow through an Australian Dan McConnell not sprinting um yeah it was second we behind Anton and just didn’t Flinch and
Anton Sprint away one and I had to get around Dan and went till it opened up and so I definitely wasn’t stoked on that um and so coming back to Gold Coast like I in my had at my head like I just come off winning a World Cup and I I
Wanted to show to myself and to everyone my young hothead age that I was the best um and I was racing the road race as well so my hit in the race I was trying to conserve as much as I could while winning the race and getting ready for
The road race um and I was just riding nervous and I made a mistake and got a flat tire and I just remember a lap and a half to go riding around 10 PS I’m a re tire and Anton’s with me and I’m just thinking I’ve just screwed this up again
And I remember going through the Finish Line I was thinking okay do I change the flat and try to come back or do I just ride this and I’m guaranteed bronze mhm and so like last second a change flat went in and then as I went in Anton saw
Slam down some gears and sprinted off and then that was just enough to turn me over the edge but I was also you know it wasn’t even just the race I was dealing with a lot at the time uh outside of the competition and you know I think it just
Overflowed in the wrong way and you know on one side it was definitely yeah something I really don’t like and then the other side it’s probably the reason why I still won cuz I was just enraged and closed down like 27 seconds or so half a lap and managed
To come back and win so that’s so cra i’ actually I never had a power meter on for that race but I honestly believe that’s probably one of the best files we had that last lap um but no I mean I definitely paid for that I mean it was
Definitely I cuz then you basically like flipped him the bird as you were yeah I mean AC it a good to to finish the story yeah to finish the story The I didn’t want to tell the cont I’m sorry but they’re going to people be people they’re like what’s wrong with closing
Down 30 seconds that sounds bad yeah um someone got a really good photo actually cuz if you see the video it was just me from my hand up like a like an angry Italian or something like this um but yeah my finger was just cured just right and someone got the photo and
There you go um so that came out but yeah I didn’t even register that I did it to be honest um and then I came across the line and you know something didn’t really sit right no didn’t sit right in me of how I was acting at the
Time anyway um and so I actually one thing that I’m always going to be glad I did is I rang my dad after the podium and told him that I think I did that and I feel awful for it and I screwed it up and I at this point I didn’t know anyone
Knew anything I was just like and I remember riding back to the Village had the gold medal in my backpack and just felt awful and then sure enough I get back into the village everyone’s stoked go to my bed phone goes ding goes thing again starts going off I check my
Phone and there’s the photo yeah and I just broke down the tears and I was cooked um and it was actually it was a bit of a storm in the teacup a little bit you know like I think New Media really grabbed on to it and yeah it felt
Like the whole world is against me and like I don’t in my opinion like I don’t yeah obviously it wasn’t ideal what I did and I apologize at the time for it um but it was actually really unhealthy how much Flack I caught
As a 22y old you know like my M my mom was getting harassed I was getting sent differents the whole media was killing me you know like I had like an hour’s sleep after the race the next day to do the Recon for the road race and then go
To New Zealand media I apologized to a room of like 200 people which I wanted to do um and then the media came and I had one guy come to me goes all right let’s do the interview I said yes feet and I was just [ __ ] I was trying not to
Run off and spew in the bathroom and he goes he he’s sorry he should goes all right let’s go put the camera face he goes are you sorry I know he goes is Anon Cooper a bad sport and I was like no he’s not I just like trying to give
Him a good answer and you just repeats the question again and I gave my answer repeats it again and then uh in hipsh the actually I don’t know if I should be saying this not but here we are um and help show the the media support from New
Zealand was being great told next question and he goes are you sorry and I came answer he goes how sorry are you and starts foll me with the microphone on my face how sorry are you how I’m a 22-year old kid mate yeah like it was
Crazy it was like I murdered someone um and then yeah I ran off to the bathroom had a spew uh apologized more went back tried to sleep and then got up and went to the road race and so after that like that was a massive H for me cuz
Yeah I just couldn’t like for sure I deserved some fck what I did was stupid um and I took shine away from where New Zealand mountain biking was at but at the same time it just seemed pretty wild you know like even you know people in the New Zealand Community New
Zealand like making assumptions like I saw some of the Articles making assumptions about how my background was my family and financially and what I’m like and I just read this stuff and I’m like this I feel like I’m so misunderstood for sure I did something
Dumb like I said but it was just really a lot to take on as a 22y old and so here I am half overseas I’m the best mountain biker in the world at 22 years old has won the opening World Cup and B Nino had a perfect season year before
And then back home um you know Public Enemy Number One it felt like I wasn’t the reality was I wasn’t and it was just but it feels like it when when your entire world is shooting arrows at you you think it’s the whole world yeah yeah
Yeah for sure and it did but it was it was intense and then I came back and I tried to race throughout the season and I won uh I got second in the outst short track St problems in the XO one the no Mesto short track um and then crashed
Out in the XO I had problems throughout the whole year but I was just [ __ ] I was surviving and then I came back to a reasonably good level for monsan World Cup before the worlds had a a bad crash again um broke some bones and did some
Damage and then went back to New Zealand from there and still trying to process what happened processing myself and my stuff I couldn’t really do it so well but I was just keeping it going you know like and then yeah I came over to I came
Into 2019 trying to prove a point to myself and just get my career back on track you know it was a lot of pressure I felt like on myself at that point and you had K epic that I was want to be it um and yeah just 2 weeks before K I was
Supposed to leave I found out my mom was diagnosed of breast cancer stage two and they still wanted me to race um I still down to race I went along and raced got to the first stage and had I was just with 20K from the Finish there was Scott
Shram Canyon canal and yof and myself left in the race and I was just going down a Jeep track trying to look at the kilometers left to go on my my headmount and then the branch caught my hand flicked me over and hit the back of my
Head at 40 can hour or so and then knocked me silly um and then from then yeah that was done uh and then yeah you give what how old was I there 23 or so were 23y old living by himself and Jona with massive concussion of all this
Going on didn’t really have closed myself off a little bit for a few months and then the downward SPL happened uh and it keept going didn’t stop yeah and I thought yeah okay it can’t get much worse than this keep getting worse um and yeah to be hon I I haven’t spoken
Openly about this before publicly I just been obviously my people know about it but I think it’s I’m okay with doing it now but you know like I was out training on hours and I was doing training rides and I was just bur in the T Train Ride
Couldn’t ride my bike yeah and it got to the point where uh really important person in my life now Dr David spinler as a neuroscientist and we’re super close still uh he basically said to me Sam you’re not you’re not R any bik it’s not anymore it’s not good for you um
It’s not safe so then I went and got uh checked up got diagnosed properly and part of way specialized uh I actually was speaking to much earlier uh about hster some I think was amst 31 and told situation and Philip Rolph messaged me and wanted me to come by of the team
Went to alerson and started to get back training again and as I was getting back into work and training I was excited for 2020 I still wasn’t recovered I was still on anti-depressants and really unhealthy but I still was in my head I wanted to race my bike and then Co
Happened and so just as I started didn’t even do a bike race Co happened and then yeah I was back home in New Zealand I went back there for it and I was yeah 2 or 3 months whatever it was not knowing what I was doing to my life with all
This going on it was definitely interesting but you know I just yeah when I was back there I was don’t know whether I wanted to carry on or not I was really a bit of a stuck point and I remember having a conversation with my dad on the on the
Terrace outside the house just trying to I was literally having the conversation like yeah that’s it like this is curtain closed you know like it’s good way I lasted still did it right you know um and then with that conversation and a few more I decided no like I’m going to
Give it another go um and so yeah when I left I I promised dad that I’ll be work Champion by tomx again and yeah I saw him after I won worlds again so yeah um I want to rewind quickly so when you we glossed over it super
Quickly but you won the opening round of the 2018 World Cup beat Nino snapped his streak he was he was unbeaten in 2017 which is just still hard to around but to be you know knowing knowing your personality at that time um to be the one that snaps that
Streak combined with like these other factors that are going on where it seemed like you weren’t the healthiest um emotionally mentally all that sort of thing yeah um what was that like CU you just said you were unhappy when you won which is a crazy I mean you just beat Nino shter in
An epic Sprint finish like people can go pull it up on YouTube it was amazing to watch um you were unhappy at the time though yeah like don’t get me wrong like I was stoked to win that race um but I guess best way I can describe it as just sheto
You had you know everything’s a bit more dimmer and back then I thought it was normal when it just wasn’t you know um so I was stoked still I mean it was amazing um that was a crazy old race and you know it was yeah it was weird um I
Don’t want to sound like too much of a Looney right now but you know I even had a not the dream of night too long ago but I had a dream that I was walking through the field with the World Cups leaders jersey on the day before the
Race crazy yeah and I was yeah no I couldn’t believe it gave me the shakes even think about now and woke up that day and you know jamanji my mechanic still together it specialized as well we I was quite nervous before the race and he looked at me and goes you’re the
Fastest guy in the world there’s no one better than you riding a bike right now look after material no punctures be smooth and you’ll do what you want and then again it was just lock me in just those are the right words and that was from that moment forth I was on a
Mission you know and everything worked out well during the race and I put a bit of pressure on N doing a bit more work and sort of yeah tried to to pound some of the responsibility onto him for pushing the speed and waited and you know the last
Lap I was definitely on my last legs going up the first climb first half of the last lap and I was sort of poking like poker facing it through but I was yeah on the limit um and then I knew that whoever was leading going into the
Finish would control or dictate the way the Sprint turned out um so I just literally any chance opened up I sprinted and when it was closed I cruised and justed to control that way and then yeah the Sprint happened how it did um yeah I guess what I’m what I was
Getting at with that is it’s interesting how cuz earlier you mentioned you weren’t necessarily always the happiest um outside of the races off the bike maybe even during training but the winning was helping and it was almost like this Band-Aid but eventually like that wasn’t even enough like you
Won in this insane fashion snapping Nino streak um and it does didn’t necessarily give you the same fix so to speak I mean it definitely did I think there pre and post comom games oh gotcha y yeah like cell Marshals before commies and so I was definitely Sky High coming in to com
Games um but then afterwards obviously that happened and I didn’t yeah it changed a lot it changed a lot um and then obviously 2019 I didn’t get opportunity to win I just crash happen pretty early in the season kep epic and then yeah then it all really got going why do you think
Alerson wanted to bring you on other than the like you amazing talent great results but um why do you think that match ended up happening obviously it’s been a great fit but at the time why do you think it happened I think yeah like
Mat and I we got on uh we get on and you know we’re racing each other quite a lot in 2018 um him and I came to a Sprint finish for the short track World Cup and N M where I bit him and then stellos she
Was fourth in the World Cup race uh so we knew each other quite well um well professionally quite well um and then obviously he’s yeah he has ERS in theic team he’s been yeah one of the longest me the longest member of that team um
Rider of that team and I think you know Philip and Kristoff are really good at Talent identification and sort of being nurturing or bringing Riders to a really high level from a young age and I think they saw some potential to bring me back on track and you know it was it was
Definitely a lot they offered me the tools to be able to do it and it was up to me whether I wanted to come back or not you know like I still had to get out and do the training and and work hard and M turn myself into a full
Professional riter you know like a lot of things I was doing was wrong still specialized um it’s actually funny now I’m trying to do everything right I look back at some of the races I won when I wasn’t doing everything right I’m how the [ __ ] do I do that what were some of
The mistakes you made do you think a dude just with diets and just yeah sleeping properly and just the normal stuff the 1 percenters um and so definitely ERS theic taught me to be professional at actually I think Kristoff deagle who’s my coach now um he
Has been since I’ve been at alerson he’s a massive figure in my career and you know he he’s taught me an incredible amount and he has a lot of belief in me which more than myself at some points and you know between him and the brothers and the whole program there
They really brought me into being a full professional and climbed on back and they gave me the space and the freedom to be able to do so you know like there was no pressure um they’re really quite good about me taking my time and trying
My best to get back into good form and yeah I probably would have been a bit of a handful that first year cuz I was still quite ill um and it was definitely pretty challenging for me at times and you know but then yeah just I think a
Lot of the reason why I am well why I’ve been lucky to be so successful the past two seasons um has oppos to tr thanful yeah were you excited to get the opportunity to race on the road some again because you mentioned earlier you know that that Junior kiddo who was like
I don’t think I’m cut off for the road I don’t think I’m good enough for this and ultimately you went back towards mountain bike for that reason and then all of a sudden you kind of kind of went full circle yeah um what was it like did
You know right off the bat that you’re going to be doing a good bit of road was that part of the offer yeah so actually I was stageing for quickstep in 2019 still so an effort to keep me racing and to keep me uh moving I had a went and
Did some testing with quickstep and I like what they saw and they gave me a guest ride um so that was fun but yeah I was a shadow myself I mean I was had some good rides there for sure but I was just a a shadow um and so I always
Wanted to come back to the road at some point or try the road again um you know when I went to the m bik somehow I grw a bunch of muscle from doing all explosive stuff and got more stronger so I thought there was that my weakness that I didn’t
Have on the road in the early days I gained from doing full mountain bike um and so in new 23 like I tried to go to the worlds and I went and did some clear Mees in Belgium and won one and I never really for some reason didn’t get
Selected for U23 worlds um when they in Norway I really wanted to go there and then yeah Al sudden they saw potential I see potential me on the road as well and we sort of adapted the program to that and you know the road really helps with
The performance of the mountain bike too and sort of that engine building so uh side and you know my biggest hand up and so pre opening my my biggest weakness in racing is my consistency and yeah the road definitely helps with that and teaches you pretty quickly that you can
Be suffering and still push on so yeah it’s been really good and it’s been a massive opportunity like I’ve been involved now with yeah some pretty big road races and you know definitely I think the most memorable one would be my first Turner um I mean we had a bit of a
Unfortunately it didn’t work out in the final with timer but you know to be in a final of a big classic like that and become a F50 around the last corner and to be right there and in the thick of it and that was pretty cool you know and I
Actually probably remember yeah I remember we did like a final circuit so you come and you do one and a half laps of this local Loop in the final Turner and it’s a long finish straight slight downhill um and you can see the the Finish Line the people from 700 me away
And I remember flying down there of a lap to go all lined out hearing the helicopters above you seeing the people go past like you’re in a car and it was just it was surreal it was like yeah we made it yeah like we’re doing it you
Know um and so yeah it’s been really quite nice and I did the wilda after the M Mar worlds this year I got viral infection on day two so didn’t really last long but still was there and part of a few stage wins or a couple stage
Wins while I was there and it was super fun and yeah I definitely think maybe it’s something that could suit my capabilities and I really want to it’ be a dream to be in the final with Landers or Ru one day that would be pretty special to be able to be rubbing
Shoulders among the Titans and able to you know say I contributed to a rice like that yeah yeah yeah and I mean this is as we started the conversation with this is kind of the time of year when you’re Day Dreaming falling asleep at the night think falling asleep at night
Thinking about these things um so what gets you the most fired up right now this winter is it imagining yourself in that scenario in the final of one of the big Classics or is it the fact that you were 19 seconds off X World title with
An imperfect day all of the above 29th of July is what gets me out of bed at the moment you know that’s the Olympics is the biggest thing right now for me um you know the worlds was great last year I came up short and had a bit of unlucky
Start Loop and you know I was traveling at good speed at that race and I definitely believe that I could do something at Olympics you know like I’m not going to for myself into thinking I’m like one of these Titans you know like a vandero or
A pig coock or one of these top top top Legends of the sport yeah but I mean in a way though like as I was going through your results it’s funny I I hope I don’t get lit up on the internet for this but cuz sometimes I’ll say I’ll say stuff
That’s maybe like 1% too far but if you if you go down your results and you look at the people that were in the race um I guess kind of the only other than the road success which is significant but you have the opportunity to do that if you can
Find um like on paper you have the capability to be one of those guys right you have a closet full of world titles jerseys you beat Nino at his absolute Peak uh um and right now the sport is like as a whole we’re kind of infatuated with
These Swiss Army knives of of Vanderpool of pitcock right but you know on paper like you’re you’re one of those guys do you find yourself how much do you compare yourself to them can you can you like stay somewhat levelheaded and realize that you still have to prove that
Consistency like find find a level on the road to to really be one of those guys do you dream about it or is it just kind of like I’m going to do my own thing I’m going to focus on Olympic mountain bike and not bite off more than
Yeah well I can CH I don’t know whether that’s just my confidence these days or what but I do not see myself as the same level as these guys like you know I when it comes to comparing you know like obviously being on the same team as Mau
And seeing him in training I obviously want to be as best as possibly can but I also see that as The Benchmark as the best rider in the world and that’s what the very best can do and you know these guys are I don’t know so much about you
Know your pig Cox or your poers or your vent arts or anything like this but you know like matu is it’s not even just about the results of that guy like the way he turns himself inside out in training how means we hear that like is that hyperbole or is it actually
Something more no no it’s a legit thing man this guy is what do you like can you describe for people like on a just paint us a picture like on any given day you’re in team camp what is Vander Paul doing that the other guys aren’t well
Put I hope he doesn’t I hope he doesn’t mind me saying this um you can shoot him a text and we’ll cut it out um probably one of the most memorable things we’re in a plunger at altitude camp and there’s like an hour climb to the hotel every day and he
Loves the race like the first get to descend down the hill and after 5 minutes he’s gone for most of day um racing no there’s like a couple guys on the team that want to race with them um a couple teammates and we’re all really
Tired this one day and we’re going up we had an hourong climb back to the hotel and he looks at the group and he goes pain is only between years and then he just takes off and goes for a straw temp up an hour long
Clim like that’s the guy that he is you know and it’s admirable for sure um and so yeah I don’t compare myself to guys like that cuz he’s just he’s never breed and it’s awesome to witness it I’m really grateful to be in this era of
Cycling and really you know like I think honestly one of the things which I think I’m really grateful for is you know like you can always sit there and be like I could do more I could make it I haven’t made it yet I haven’t made it yet and
That’s I’m pretty guilty of that sometimes too I never feel like I’ve done enough um but then to be in the same team and to be able to the same bike races of these guys that is a household name around the world like it’s it’s quite an opportunity I’m quite
Grateful to be able to even see it you know like that’s how that’s probably one of my measures of knowing that I’ve had a good career MH um so yeah but like in saying that as well like you know for 29th of July it’s no secret uh I don’t
Know M might be racing or not not be um Tom said that he’ll be racing uh you know like I don’t see myself as great as these guys but the great thing I love about Championship events is yeah there’s no status there’s no nothing minutes exactly and that will
Figure a lot of things out and I believe for one day I can do it and so that’s my goal and that’s what I’m that’s what I’m rful yeah fair enough yeah it is interesting I guess I bring up the comparison to those guys just because you know physiologically you do kind of
Strike me as like a like a lot of your strengths are sort of like Vanderpool strengths where you’re just super explosive you can cross over um and basically just a dollar shop mat Vandero vandero light yeah vandero light um yeah I mean and then you will pop off these things like that world’s ride where you were 19 seconds off pitcock like that is amazing that is really amazing um that’s cool man if there’s so spending one more minute on kind of
These uh these folks that are crossing over and and uh like redefining what it means to be a a top athlete top psychist is there anyone that’s totally focused on the road now um that you think would cross over well onto the dirt whether it’s XC I guess just XO or short
Track I have to say like there’s so many young talents these days like the young Rider that won the stage of tour Down Under that was incredible what yeah I saw that highlight and I was just like oh my God yeah when you see the Y in for
It you see the speed difference deloro that’s his name Delo um yeah I mean it’s hard to say like I think it’s quite cool in modern sing that young athletes woman or male can choose a discipline and have their freedom over what they want to do
Um I think it’s really quite cool for the sport and cool for them as well just to have the fre like to have the the freedom and be able to follow their passion on whether it’s 2.4 tires or 28 mil ties you know um but it’s hard to
Say I mean Adrien bosi is a young French Rider um U23 I think he’s going to be very exceptional when he’s older and he’s Bo he’s already really quite the strong Rider he’s progressing well I think he’s going to be one of the future stars at mountain bike um as as far as
It goes to the road like yeah I actually don’t know enough Young Riders to be able to have a educate opinion on that I mean whoever it is just stay away for another four or five years so do then you can come it’s getting crowded yeah
CU once a bit by the time I do get good enough to win a elite World title then there’ll be some young guy just beats me anyway fair enough fair enough cool man that was great um trying to think what else what is your schedule this year so yeah I start
Pretty soon I’m doing a small marathon Race um PL didn’t even talk about Marathon worlds or two short track Elite short treack World Champs took the Jersey off our beloved Chris bv’s back yeah that was bastard yeah sorry mate I mean Chris was he was committed that
Race tried to put his bike where there was no room but yeah I mean yeah it’s actually funny like when we talk about the elite what title like you know this year obviously on paper I got pretty close I was 19 seconds off and after a
Bad start Loop but if you ask me which one I’ve thrown away it’s 2022 like the XO World title race there I yeah I threw that one away um which was pretty hard to take and that still was a bit raw of me um and so Marathon worlds yeah two
Weeks later or 2 and a half weeks later and I actually out of not spite but out of being pissed at myself I managed to make that one work um didn’t you break your collar bone right before that Yeah I broke my collar burn in two ribs and
Then rest Marathon between the two and they were two weeks apart two and a half weeks apart and you broke it after xco before Marathon worlds Yeah I broke my Carone ribs two weeks before wow yeah I mean I drove poor Amy uh my girlfriend up the wall basically yeah just
Everything was going so swimmingly on the X race like to be honest I mean it’s a hindsight now so I can say but like I was too concerned over where Tom pitock was you know like he was we started on the same road but I made it to the front
A lot quicker than he did and I was sort of waiting for him to come then I knew the race was probably going to get faster from then on out um and then I was just you like just trying to see how Nina was feeling Jordan s was also in
The front so I wanted to see how he was feeling and just sort of trying to pick everything I can all the small details I can put together and you know I was like a step up step down little bik Park section and we’re going pretty quick so
I just wanted to scrub the bike um a lot of people actually thought I was trying to a whip and crashed so just disclaim my I was not trying to do that I was but I was just trying to roll the bike over the lip just to keep it lower to the
Ground just scrubbing it and as I went off that lip my back wheel had a rock funny and just flipped me over and I just couldn’t do anything about it I just remember it happening and be like Oh and then just obviously the crash happened so that was really hard to take
Cuz you know I felt really good and we’re at the 20 minute Mark 25 minute Mark and usually you know if you paste it wrong after 15 minutes you find out um I still felt really good so I knew I was on for a good day and then that
Happened so yeah I I had to drive overnight I got ear lifted to a French hospital uh the team wanted to do the surgery in Belgium with the doctors so then I drove overnight in a van colan out of place to here Ines how long was that drive 10 hours oh
My god dude yeah oh it was a long night of staring at the highway take that for free I got to the hospital in Belgium and did the surgery and got home and I think that afternoon or the next morning I was on the turbo already so w yeah and
Then yeah it was just all in for Marathon worlds to write my wrongs a little bit and that worked out um actually it was a hard race that was um I sort of to in my head I was training like there’s going to be a moment where
You’re going to want a break and that’s where you get the proof or that’s when I can get out what I want to get out um and somehow I just jumped into a single Trail and there was a rider who wasn’t going so quick there so I jumped in
Front of him and got like a 10-sec gap pretty quickly was like an hour to go and was quite like drafty course and I was like I got to go um so basically just had a drag race with four people chasing me down and me 20 seconds up the
Road for an hour oh and yeah I was I was fulling into bits cuz every time I got to the saddle like my collarbone was fine cuz it was plated yeah it was my ribs that was doing the damage you know like and the collarbone was always all
Good um as it can be for being broken but then like you you know like I remember waking up in the middle of the night before the week after I got back from hospital and like I had muscle cramps in between my broken ribs yeah
And it’s was like I what I felt like it would be to be 90 years old getting out of Bard is how I felt and so yeah I went to the race and like that last hour I could feel everything and it was really starting to get tender and Andre SE wild
Came back to me in like 20 minutes too and I managed to yes we didn’t even do the Sprint he set up before the Sprint so I just rolled across the line which was really the strangest footage ever had for a world title um but then yeah I woke up the next morning
And I could not move I tried to do I wanted to do seot classic the local R and Jon here cuz I always loved doing it um but I couldn’t ride a bike anymore like I was broken so yeah that was definitely put some stuff to bed for me
The end of 2022 yeah wow that’s impressive um all right we should wrap this up with your uh your schedule for the year I think people would be curious to hear other than what’ you say is it July 29th yeah 29th of July yeah what what are you doing to uh keep yourself
Occupied until then um yeah turny my butt off basically no I mean I’ll do yeah at the moment I’ll do a bunch of races in February I’ll do like a small two-day Marathon uh run by they call vcat it’s quite local um which be nice and then I’ll do lusia
Uh C1 I’ll do sha and then Bolis which are all quite big Spanish early spring races so I’ll do that on the mountain bike I’ll go directly into altitude Camp again uh um after Bolis and then prepare do some road races uh and work towards the Brazil the First World Cups in
Brazil so what road races are you doing uh still to be confirmed uh but it’s looking like something quite local in Spain and maybe W the race in Belgium so right on yeah yeah I forgot we can’t teams are funny with that we can’t really Shout It Out publicly per se well
Yeah people can probably put two and two together yeah I mean it’s just it hasn’t been confirmed yet out of you know there’s a lot of guys trying to get into races um and so yeah we’ll see but everything going well I’ll be doing some road racing too uh which I’m looking
Forward to and then yeah I really want to show up in in Brazil in April cuz you know I’ve had a I’ve been really grateful for the success I have had but I still haven’t won a World Cup out from stallin bos MH and that’s been alluding
Me a while and I actually would love love to win a World Cup again so that’s one of the goals for my season as well um along with like their consistency and of course the Olympics so just that and you know for me the two things which left a mountain biking that I
Really want to do as the elite World XO World title and the Olympics and if I can one day touch wood check those two off then I’ll be a very happy man and this year is a good opportunity for it so yeah no doubt yeah yeah it’s funny
Before we started recording you also mentioned uh I would not have expected this but you like yeah Miss whiskey 50 and seot classic is I mean obviously you like testing testing yourself against the best in the world and and those races are not quite the same level but
They seem to hold a a special place in your heart they’re so sick like I love them like why why is that well it’s just so when I was back in as young growing up we had this race called the Koval connection and it was just this
Basically now you’d call it a gravel race 100% it would be a gravel race but it was just around the peninsula of carand of up top of car mandal um but it was a really local feel to the race and Community Based and we used to we used
To tint in Camp for the race and the year that I finally beat my dad when I was 16 I was using his old bike and the seat was forcing him was to low for me cuz the frame was too small and you know there was so many good memories in that
Style of racing and so when I come to Whiskey 50 I remember again there after SE we all going for a walk around priset and there was this dog sitting in a passenger seat of a car and no one was in the car and I thought that was
Awesome cuz that reminds me back of being in New Zealand and so we’re looking at the dog I’m there like yeah just not cheering a dog or what am I calling it pampering the dog um and the guy comes out and that’s that’s where the guy runs the event yeah Todd Todd
Yeah and so I was like this is sick and then we did the uh my first ever professional win was there at the short track was it yep first time ever won a professional bers that’s cool um as a pro nasty short track that one huh it
Was it um all paved but at 1900 M maybe maybe more 2100 it is basically is just hill repeats yeah and 1900 M altitude and it is ruthless um but anyway so that was a sick race and then but the thing I love the most about it was so the the
Marathon Race you go up the Skull Valley I think it’s called turn left do U-turn climb your ass back up and then go down to half an out descent yeah as I was going down this half an out descent I had 20 seconds or 30 seconds on Howe who
Was behind me um and I come around this corner and there’s no one in the middle there’s no one there like it’s middle of nowhere come around the corner like 200 people in this one rock garden screaming and I was like where did you all you
People come from like how’d you get out of here and I just thought it was the coolest thing ever mountain people mountain people no just people that make the races worth it you know there people coming out and having a good time which I I loved um but then yeah got to the
Finish line and the whole atmosphere was amazing we went and did a whiskey shot and local pub um and it was it was sick so you know like events like these like I haven’t done Leadville yet I would really love to do one day yeah yeah I
Don’t know who has a record now but I know suie was close to it if not had it Keegan has a Nast I have news for you dude Keegan did an absolutely stupid ride last year he did a St he went uh 17 minutes faster than Al Lata 17
Five I think it’s 543 you should go I’ll I don’t know if he still has the file up I’ll send you the file it it’s it’s really insane did he do it on mountain or did he do mountain yeah hard tail but he did a bunch of funky stuff like he
Ran ran like a big one by road kind of crank uh crank set just bigger chain ring uh kind of I think he cut his bars down he ran like gravel wheels and narrowed tires kind anyway he went the 4 n yards worth it and seven okay maybe
That’s not going to happen for me then yeah it’ be cool to be a part of it though you know and like oh one thing I forgot too is the dude letting off the shotgun to announce the start of whiskey 50 oh yeah that was sick we used to have
That back in like we black stump was the name of the event and it was like this on some cocky Farm cheap and beef Farm used to do like laps of this farm and yeah same thing shotgun on the back of the you boom off you go I I find that so
Cool so dude us gravel if you love that stuff once you uh check these last couple of boxes on the global stage us gravel’s waiting for you yeah be sick I mean I always thought it would be a cool idea to like me one of my best mates
Have talked about it just renting a motor home and just driving around and doing all the crits and all the stuff in America and just yeah living up for one year before we properly let go of it you know so lawren tendam style yeah I mean
It seems like such a good idea right and like you know I definitely think that it’s it’s really qu a nice fun way and you can take it as competitive as you like or just get out there and do it and you know like I
Think it’s just a yeah I like to do it one day let’s see cool man thanks for the time this is awesome no happy to be here and thanks a lot and yeah look forward to well I probably won’t listen this back but Amy Amy will and you let
Me know if it’s good or not so oh yeah shout out to your your girlfriend what’s her podcast uh woman cycling weekly women cycling weekly yeah yeah so she’s just doing her thing um um yeah she’s been a journalist of woman cycling now for a few years
And has a big passion in it and follows it we have a good friend to the price is not doing the podcast of her anymore told is now with gcn so but no she’s uh yeah Keen following the woman’s side of the sport uh she actually follows the
Woman’s side not so much the men’s side I think she has passion in the men’s side now that I’m doing it but I think it’s quite cool so yeah it’s uh that’s nice you know like she’s not a professional cyclist by any means um but
She knows enough to have an idea of how to handle it you know and yeah we been to Giver long enough she knows how to deal with my wacky ass so she just yeah she does a great job with that good stuff man all right well uh
Best of luck we’ll be following sweet until next time
4 Comments
So funny he mentions Jack Edwards @11:35. I raced him as a Junior as well. He was an absolute beast! There was a few guys like that absolutely dominating the field, most of them gave up. A lot of the guys in my age category that didn't give up went professional. Sam Welsford and Jai Hindley to mention a couple. The field back then was crazy good.
Awesome podcast, listened to it this morning whilst out on my gravel bike. Sam is a great Kiwi who is open about everything and is a great inspiration.
Great to see episodes on YouTube!
Such an awesome interview. I have followed Sam’s progress since doing mtnbike races as an age grouper when Sam was just a grommet racing up at the front.