David Gillick is a former European 400 meter champion. He sits down with Anthony on The Roadman Podcast to talk about transformation, the difficult transition that all athletes face but few talk about. The loss of identity, routine and self.
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You finish and you’re trying to chase to fill that void but how would you ever get something that’s 880,000 people shouting your name again you don’t and everything comes with that yeah yes there’s one thing in the stadium where it’s Pack full of people and it’s a
World final and all the rest of it but it’s even the afterm mat of that when you come home and it’s the your nearest and dearest suddenly putting you on pedestals and stuff like that and everybody means well don’t get me wrong but it’s very hard to replace that when
It’s all gone and I think that’s why the phrase is at least I voice David gck well welcome thanks for having me in thanks for joining me no problem at all nice space you have here thank you very much it’s been a slow work in progress like anything first slowly then
Suddenly uh how are you good yeah all good yeah yeah it’s uh yeah good good the year 20123 and looking ahead to the next year and see what uh see what I’m going to do I was watching uh I was watching Yellowstone last night have you
Seen that BR yeah there’s a scene in where Kevin cner and his son are trying to teach the grandson how to oh yeah figuring out my New Year’s resolution still I actually think this is going to be my New Year resolution to kill something have you ever gone hunting no
I haven’t gone hunting I hope you’re not going to kill a human no I’m not going to kill a human no you’re sa you a big list of people you dislike you’re safe you’re safe but like yeah because I don’t know I had a few rashers and
Sisters for breakfast this morning I was like do you know what you got them the butcher who’s basically a proxy executioner a dogs were so far removed from the process of actually getting our food and I was like I don’t know if I could do this like looking at an animal
And go and choosing to take its life I don’t know if I could do it no I’d probably be in that category as well yeah um it’s kind of one of those things where I probably don’t really think about it that often do you want to come
Hunting this year we can set for hunting trip cuz you’re getting into a bit of gravel cycling this could be a new genre where we get go out gravel cycling with like a bow and arrow and hunting as well you would have B Arrow i’ say you were
On the celebrity hell week aren’t you yeah yeah yeah if you were going hunting with one of those Lads now who would it be um I’d probably Billy Holland yeah yeah Billy Holland um he’s very strategic he’s logical and um he he’s calm as well so you know I’d be probably
Like let’s get it let’s get it and he’d be like take your time take your time and I think when it comes to maybe hunting not that I I I hunt or have any experience in it but I’d imagine you got to be patient yeah I would think if you
Combined you’re kind of hell week and you’re hunting you could probably go a few weeks out in the wild and survive I love my food I’d have to have a bag of snacks with me sat was some man in the in hell week yeah like I’ll be honest
With you hell week was probably was without a shot of a doubt one of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life seriously yeah yeah honest what you see on TV is that what you get CU you know when I’m watching I’m like my Miss saying oh you should definitely do that
You’d love it and I was like no one love that looks horrible it’s yeah like what you saw on TV was probably you know the the Sunday game version you’re getting the highlights packed into whatever it is like 50 minutes on air TV but in reality for us that was our life 247
There was no stop there was no right Lads you know chill out here for an hour it’s not like Bear Grills where he’s in the hotel and no there is no Hotel like you know there’s no like all right L here’s a coffee and a cross on or
Whatever it was literally what you saw that was we had that every minute of every day like to put it in perspective out of like I thankfully got to the end I I survived it so six days Monday all the way through to Saturday and within
That time frame I got I think we added it up and even the producers and all it was about it was about 6 hours 20 odd minutes of sleep s yeah in a week okay so like you you put that in perspective and that how that then plays on your
Emotions you know your head you’re just and then foodwise as well you got very little food do you learn anything about yourself with that sort ofle deprivation yeah like again it’s kind of look it’s very physical initially and there’s a strategy I play at this like they’re
Trying and kind of wear you down fatigue you um you know don’t give you enough food so you’re not recovering don’t give you enough sleep and the sleep is the biggest thing because then you start you know you just you’re angry you’re grumpy and they’re trying to hone in and break
You down so you go in as an individual to try and build is up as a team and then they try and break down that team and what I kind of probably one of the the biggest things I learned was they and this actually didn’t really make TV
Um but they came in one day and they gave us clipboards and they said right um we want you to evaluate yourself so we don’t care who you are what you’ve won anything like that we want you to write down what makes you you who are
You and write that down in a piece of paper that’s hard even with a good night sleep yeah and you could see everyone kind of looking around going what and then furthermore you had to then evaluate yourself so there there’s a series of questions and you had to like
You know rate yourself in various kind of ways and means and then you to evaluate everybody else in the room okay and then about a day later we were like huded and brought in one by one and sat down in front of a a psychologist and she gave us back this information and
Asked us questions and that was really really really kind of insightful because suddenly you know you’re looking at yourself about how you evaluate yourself but then how everybody evaluated you so your self-awareness and that was one of the biggest things that I took away from was like my own self-awareness and
That’s probably something like it’s it’s harsh it’s it’s very truthful um and it’s given back to you and it’s probably not it’s probably something we don’t do on a regular basis so that was probably one of my biggest learnings to take away from it’s hard hearing back as we all
Have these masks we wear where we’re we have these insecurities that we try and paper over them and hearing these insecurities back from our peers is that hard yeah yeah it is yeah because like even like I remember one question I can’t remember the exact question but I
Scored myself quite quite low in it um whereas everybody else scored me quite high so when that was given back to me she asked me go like why did you score yourself down quite low and gave her the reason and then she was like actually people scored you quite high and that
Really kind of told me that my self-awareness you know why am I put myself which was wasn’t a bad thing it wasn’t a negative question but I think sometimes it’s a huge learning curve when maybe it’s the opposite side you know and you’re own self I was about to
Say you could have had it on the nice side if you seen it on the other side it’s I don’t know if it’s embarrassing as the word but it’s well it’s very eye open slap in the face it’s a slap in the face and those are probably the things
Even from like a corporate perspective how you work with people how you communicate with people how you lead people manage people all that sort of stuff um you know it’s probably something that we don’t do on a regular basis um and that was quite interest that was something that was probably
Unexpected going into hell week because you look at it on TV it’s very physical demanding you know you got to you know get through it and all that whereas there is the the kind of emotional side of it there is that mental aspect to it where you’re learning learning about
Yourself as well well it’s kind of interesting because you’ve those two versions of how you see yourself versus how other people see and there’s this Collision of these two and as an athlete which sure we get on to this later on the conversation but as an athlete that’s difficult because you have your
Identity is so much built as an athlete but if someone else doesn’t see as an athlete and you get this tricky dichotomy where it starts to play you go a little bit schizophrenic if you don’t reconcile these two almost and that’s very hard particularly when you walk
Into a room full of strangers and you’re kind of like and look I suppose as well there’s probably egos in there as well there’s people who are used to maybe doing stuff by themselves to then working in team environments working with coaches throughout their whole entire life and you know almost been
Told what to do and to just do it um and yeah like you have all of those kind of things going on where your your questioning your question your your kind of role in this space and your question your I suppose another way of looking at
Is like where you are in the pecking order it’s a little bit L of the flers type stuff like career trying to nearly establish a mini Society again absolutely and again when you’re in a pressure environment and you’re told kind of like you’re doing this you’re
Doing that you got to work as a team it’s always really interesting to see okay who’s the person that’s going to kind of you know almost try and step in and be the leader and who are the people that are maybe kind of going to hang back and maybe not contribute or who’s
Going to be in the middle and that was one of the things in hell week that they kept kind of saying who’s going to be the gray man like who’s going to just be hiding who’s not going to do you know their fair share because they’re trying
To build you up as a team um and that was quite interesting but again you know it’s it’s really kind of it was really impressive how you know whatever that was going on um how quickly it come together and quickly you have to um and these are things that probably didn’t
Really maybe come across on TV as much as they were kind of happening in the reality of day it almost reveals characters doesn’t it cuz you know if you’re a a strong character if you’re a disciplined character or if you’re someone who sherks responsibility or someone who likes to front like they’re
A strong man or disciplined yeah it shines a magnifying glass on and you’re more of whatever you are it’s like somebody talked about the pandemic and the lockdown it’s like well if you’re already created hunks drunks and chunks if you liked eating [Â __Â ] food you just at more [Â __Â ] food if you liked
Working out in your back yarden you just got more swall and it was a little bit like that a made actually it’s a funny story one tring Partners Anthony O’Brien he went into hell week and it’s a gas door he went in he said he slept
Terrible cuz he was a taxi driver and he’s triathletes and he’s trying to balance you know a mad Triathlon training chedule being a taxi driver so he figured he woke up a lot of hours the week before so he went into a real sleep the price so he went in they put him
Onto a bus he said it was chaos they drove him out to roundwood somewhere freezing cold middle of the night he jumps off this bridge and already he’s thinking what’s down here I could twist an ankle be out for the season this is stupid like what am I doing I need de
With this but he’s like no no I’m going to Fresh mindset gets back on the bus he said it’s just car it’s trying to find clothes and everything back to the barck and he’s like right I’m in a bad Minds I here I’m just going to get a good
Night’s sleep and then I’ll start fresh tomorrow with this thing and I’ll give it a proper crack he said he’s in he’s asleep about seven seconds and the lights come on the beds get flipped so he’s like [Â __Â ] that I’m out here so we call a hell day for
Him but but that’s exactly it like and you think you’re going to recover and get your rest H and then go again but you don’t get that opportunity it’s funny actually because there’s a good few triathletes over over I suppose the seasons have actually yeah J Redmond got
Stuck in and they’ve always done well and I think that’s it it’s like I think with me like there was actually another 400 meter athlete did it years ago and he messaged me one day go oh I think you should do this you know and I was like
Ah not into this he goes I’m telling you like you love it and because you’ve ran 400s which is a tough event you know you’re very much by yourself he said you’ll do well and I think that’s probably the biggest learning that I took from it was like I’m actually I’m
Actually more resilient than I gave myself credit for and all the things that I learned as an athlete really kind of helped me get through those number of days take me back your your 400 athlet you know you’re the wrong skin color for 400 athlete you’re from Orland we don’t
Have a pedigree or background like was 25 you won the gold in the Endor first 80 years from B was last um I when was btis was like 32 1932 400 m hurdles Gap yeah and like that was probably a bit of the mindset as well probably collectively in Ireland where you know
In in athletic circles that we couldn’t compete you know leave that to the Africans leave that to the Caribbean athletes and and the Americans they’re the Sprint Nations we need to find something else and again as well historically you’ve got the likes of like Sonia Sullivan Katrina mckernan
Tracy cochan all these people who had gone in middle to long distance and done quite well so that was probably where as a nation we thought we could we could we could um challenge for medals um and I can remember going like coming through and I wasn’t I don’t okay as a teenager
You know I wasn’t making any teams right I played a lot of G bit of soccer and stuff like that how you get into because it’s a bizarre like it it was never presented to me as an optional school oh you can go and Sprint and that’s the
Thing like the way it worked for me was I grew up in volunteer and at the bottom of my road was volunteer Comm commun scho and they had a big Hall and that’s where dun drum atletic Club was literally at the end of my road and
There was a couple Liz and Eddie McDona who like Le retired recently from coaching after 50 years you it’s amazing all kind of her own time and my under the youngest of four so my brother uh two brothers sister and then me and they all participated in athletics and
That’s where I got into it um my primary school I had a teacher and Mrs Horan Olive H Horan who was interested in athletics and every Springtime would get us running in the field next to school pick a team we got the come BN skull out
In sry um and run the run the primary school sports and then through that did a little bit more in the club joined the club H went to S pila’s College in um in Kil mood proud traditional cross country running did that all the way through um
So running was a kind of it was part of my Sport and lifestyle if you like and um as I got a little bit older it’s kind of no more than yourself you be you begin to kind of find what you’re good at and maybe the opportunity that
Present itself and you know soccer I enjoyed playing soccer but I was never gonna go on to a great kind of level GA I was decent at GA stayed playing that till I was 19 but I always ran um and I kind of found true running that I I
Didn’t have the out andout endurance to be competitive kind of you know as I got older say cross country I went from maybe a score on the team of six to like and also ran on the team and then I realized you know I was fast faster
Sprinting than most of these other Lads so when the spring came around it’ get on the track and that’s where I was I was actually doing pretty well so then you kind of figure out well I’m more of a a sprinter and then within that you
Kind of figure out all right well like I’m not an out andout 100 meter uh Sprinter don’t have the pace but I have endurance so suddenly you kind of find yourself going to 200s 300s and then bang 400 met I think the first time I ever became aware of you was probably
Was it 2005 when you won the the gold in the indoor that was uh in Madrid yeah Euro indoors yeah I remember R news or something covered you in the airport coming back in like the looking tracks to full and I remember thinking wow we genuinely have a world class Sprinter in
Ireland you must have been early 20s we were I was only I was I was 21 was I 21 yeah but it was interesting with that because like I just I went on a bit of a a win streak that indoor season um I won the British charms I had a couple of
Races that I was improving and I was winning races and that was the thing I wasn’t trying to run fast I was just trying to win races and then lo and behold going into those championships I I kind of remember looking at the European Rank and I was thinking I think
I was like Fifth and I was like you know I could make a final um but I it was my first Champs I didn’t really like I didn’t really expect a whole lot from it and the biggest the favorite was the Spanish guy David canal and he’ ran like
He was he was good athlete now In fairness older than me but I went to into the Championships and uh I ran the first round and I ran 461 which was a huge PB um but I was so nervous and I remember coming off that and I was
Straight into the into a final now and like I couldn’t eat I could barely sleep um remember my coach brought me out for something on the Saturday the finals on the Saturday kind of evening um early early night and he brought me over something to eat just get me out of the
Hotel I couldn’t eat I was sitting in the Spanish restaurant I can I remember vividly cutting the piece of chicken getting into my mouth getting the water to get it down it all just got too much had to get out of the restaurant and I was on the pavement outside the
Restaurant with my hands on my knees I was so so nervous I was young I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t know how to deal with all this sort of stuff you psychologists and stuff in place no not then no no nothing like even foodwise like from a nutrition perspective there wasn’t any
There was no like there was nothing there that I could I could use as a crutch or a lie on or talk to or anything like that um and I can remember Jen the only time that I kind of felt at ease was when I started my warm-up so I
Went in the stadium and then started my familiar exactly yeah that’s my routine and I can remember then kind of getting getting the race face on and begin to get into that kind of um process and and yeah I man I managed to win it wasn’t
The fastest time it was a bit of a bumpy race but um suddenly see it’s it’s funny you prepare yourself for maybe the days that don’t go well but but I didn’t prepare myself for a success that was the Mad thing so when you talk about
Coming back into Dublin and there I am the tracksuit and the the news like I was like this was all Bonkers to me like this was like hang on a second I’ve never had a welcome like this before and straight away I was thinking oh [Â __Â ] oh
[Â __Â ] now people are going to expect an awful lot from me what a catch Ro man you know how serious I take my goal setting and I know how serious you take it too so whether you’re chasing Fitness or life style goals and you’re looking for a powerful alloy to support you on
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My relationship you as being you know one as a fan from a distance looking at your results so 2005 you come on to my rider and then as just a a fan of our Sport and supporting anyone in the green jersey in any sport you know come
Watching Sonia or Sol now tune into the atletics and I’m like wonder how David Gill calls today now there’s expectation yeah now there’s pressure what’s that like does that change your relationship with the sport you’re on the way up and you’re like you’re you’re Carefree you
Know you win a race you qualify and then you get to a point like well people expect you to qualify people expect you to win a race people are tuning in just to see like my dad be saying David gck running tonight you’re coming over to
Watch it yeah I can remember there’s um like the immediate aftermath of that I went for a massage um I lot called Ken Fitzpatrick and he literally lived around the corner and I’d gone to K on for for ages H prior to this and went
Down to him and I remember his his mom was in the house and as I was leaving she comes over to me goes oh well done well done she goes just try and enjoy it don’t worry about all those other people that are going to come in and tell you
To do this and do that and I remember kind of thinking back thinking like what does she mean by that and she was so right cuz suddenly you’ve just got all these other people and voices and um the expectation and the pressure and I remember like people suddenly kind of
Like they knew me but like I remember one someone saying like oh we knew you’re good we didn’t think you were that good and then the next question when’s your next race are you going to the Olympic you going to win win the Olympics and all these sort of things
Even from my local kind of area and to the point where um it might sound a bit crazy but I didn’t I didn’t want to leave the house I didn’t want to go down to local shop because I’d bump into someone and then it would be like ah
When you’re racing again whereas prior to this nobody really gave a [Â __Â ] yeah and now suddenly you have all these kind of questions and I think internally I just got lucky maybe I just got one right lucky maybe just the Stars Al line for that one moment um and that imposter
Syndrome you know it’s like oh [Â __Â ] you know I just I just got a lucky day and you think having you know the infrastructure has obviously developed a lot worldwide in sports and definitely in Ireland as well where we have sport psychologists and you’ve you know GP J
Hussy and people like that now around Sport and the boxers poer a lot of this stuff do you think having someone in your corner then to go look look you didn’t get lucky this was process you know these events they’re not accidental success and failure doesn’t show up as a
Surprise you know I could look at your train if I knew what I was looking at back then and go look you’re tracking for this you deserve this this is what you deserve you’re at this level you didn’t just you know I couldn’t show up
For 400 want go you know what I mean so do you think if you had someone in your corner to ground that in the reality that you’re living in going you’ve done the work you’ve done the splits you are the champion 100% And I think it’s um
That goes back to that kind of relationship you have with a coach and kind of that understanding um that constant kind of feedback of like here’s what we’re aiming for here’s how we’re tracking um having a psychologist it’s someone that you can you can you can
Confi and you can trust and you can tell kind of exactly how you’re feeling how you’re dealing with all these these kind of emotions that are going through your head and and even then when success happens it’s like okay well this this was part of the plan this is all going
To you know now what’s the next phase right we’re going to manage this you’re going to do your media and stuff like this and then we’re back into training so there’s a there’s a clear timeline um so of process is just very very clear and the routine and the structure and
The strategy because I think when I I was young at the time you know I wasn’t set up for Success so when it happened it was like whoa hang on like now things have changed it’s gone from a hobby to oh hang on this is now I remember
Someone telling me Oh you’re going to have like 10 years of a career now ahead you I remember thinking really Jesus I thought this was just a bit of crackling you know and I think now we’ve gotten a lot better at preparing ourselves for success and we have the infrastructure
In place so a lot of our athletes coming through now would have access you know with say sport Ireland and The Institute to uh to psychology to uh you know all that kind of um holistic approach to to sport which is very very important and that doesn’t change it doesn’t just
Happen when a championships comes on and then it disappears it’s ongo and I think that’s really important do you think those like people in the shops the people that are passing by in the street that are like oh you’re going to win gold is it well intentioned or is there
A little bit of a hint of IRB groggery in that we build them up so we can pull them back down in it I think you know no I I think generally people people want you to to do well and I think a question like that is more like maybe it’s it’s
Probably maybe their lack of understanding you know in terms of going from say a European level to to a global world and Olympic level that there’s a step up particularly in the Sprint event yeah you know and I think for me it was like when people would say that I’d
Almost kind of go oh God yeah what about the Americans and what about the Caribbean athletes whereas I think genuinely people were a little bit more like you know brilliant you know fair play to your local ad doing well well um I never felt that there was any b
Groggery um but at the same time you know like there there may have been an element of that but I don’t think it was something that was maybe projected on to me personally yeah I think it’s I think you probably hit the on the heads lack of awareness I know when I started
Getting a few quit to ride the bike for the first time and you know you’re i’ come home from the states and i’ be down my mom’s house and you’re wearing all the matching kit the matching bikes and he ride into the house and one of the
Neighbors would see and he’d be like oh you you riding the Tour of France this year and I was like like you’re trying to explain I’m division three they one I’m not going to be riding this I’m not at that level you feel like you’re explaining yourself but that’s exactly
Sometimes people say oh what are you running for 400 and at the time you’re running like 46 seconds what’s the world record and you’re going oh well like the work okay yeah I’m not that good you know it’s almost like like you don’t have to ask me that question like the
World record is probably two seconds quicker than me over 400 you know it’s a great way of grounding isn’t it my girlfriend Sarah who you miss she on a last Mal to misen head and a lot of lads on the cycle they would have been very
Good on the Irish scene and they would have won a lot of big Races they take a lot of pride in talking about back in the day on this race or back in the day I want a stage in a Ross which are Super prestigious from a domestic level but
I’ve been do on the podcast for the past couple of years and I’ve have a few friends from cyclin who are you know genuinely world class levels for the France winners have interviewed Greg Lon and stuff on the podcast so it’s really normalized conversations with Sarah
Around oh chat to Greg Lon this morning and she just thinks that’s part of normal life W the tour three times so she’d be Ching to these Lads on M mizen head around dinner going oh how many times did you ride the tour and they’re
Like ride the tour at all like but she just thinks anyone who’s a pro cyclist has ridden the Tour all Anthony’s mates have ridden the tour like did you like being a pro loved it yeah it probably took me a while to kind of really kind
Of buy into it all like I I left Ireland in 2006 and moved over to lur University which at the time was like a a center of excellence for British u athletics and you had a lot of talent there and they’d study in the university and trained
Full-time and when I went over there um I loved it it was it was just I actually felt really probably for the first time in my life kind of comfortable within my own skin you know I was around likeminded people I wasn’t getting pulled and dragged to go out on the beer
And kind of you know you’re train the next day I should look I’ll go out and have a lot of points you’re trying to make excuses way you can’t drink yeah you know and then you go out and you’re like are you’re not drinking no I’m not
Drinking oh Jesus you you know you’re boring sit in the corner there you know and suddenly I was in an environment where people kind of spoke my language like and um I love that it was different you know if we were hanging out we might go renter someone’s house and we we’
We’d all cook and have a have a meal and stuff and because we’re all training we’re all athletes and you’re always working towards that kind of Big Goal that summer um and also as well I I bought into into Athletics a lot more I began to kind of rest better I began to
Eat better began kind of like kind of having clear goals and plans what I want to achieve how am I going to do this I had a great coach where I I could have open conversation with him like you know I could go to into his office right Nick
How we going to do this how are you going to get me to run 44 seconds and you know we talk about those things and I think from the GetGo he understood me and there’s there’s a phrase kind of in terms of coaching like you you coach the
Individual then you coach the event and I think Nick kind of understood me um and I I wasn’t a needy athlete but I like to be told I was I was doing well yeah you know I like to come off the track after a session and Nick would say
Yeah good job Gil you know and and that would give me you know the the lift you know whereas sometimes people don’t require that um that’s the beauty of a good coach though some athletes need the hammer some athletes need the Cur some need the stick like yeah and that’s
Exactly it and even in a training group people would would like a different approach and I think Nick to give give him credit understood that from the get-go in terms cuz I trained with a lad called Martin Rooney who you know multiple um European Champion you know
He made Olympic final H at as an 18yearold you know he’s extremely talented um but he was a different athlete to me and he was a different person to me and we’re still great mates um but he would he would have that a lot more self-belief let’s say open
Self-belief than maybe than than I would and I think from a coaching perspective you know you need to manage that but we worked really well together and straight away you know in terms of a training group um it was fantastic and you’re looking forward you’re going on your
Training camps you’re going away you know I remember going to La that year and been there for a month training and doing a few races in the States you know then going to South Africa and it’s so fresh coming from Orland as well because I remember you know again we’re roughly
The same vintage and you know I grew up thinking pepper was a spice like I I I was so close like and then going out to Canada and Racing for the first time and seen like these pizza chains and coffee houses and I was like I’ve only seen
This on friends on the TV and now I’m sitting in a coffee house and everything just feel so life exper that’s that’s exactly it’s exciting it’s a life experience and you know I know England wouldn’t be the most exotic place or a far flung place but it
Was I it almost empowered me you know I made the decision to go over and now you’re going and you’re cooking your own meals and you’re taking more interest in how you how you feel yourself you know you’re into bed a bit earlier because you know you’re not getting pulled and
Drag with mates and stuff like that so you feel like you’re controlling your own life a little bit better and then you’re going to South Africa and you’re going to like LA and all these places and it’s just cool it’s brilliant and you’re you’re doing this whilst you’re
Doing something that you love running what I suppose there’s two sides of that question do you like being a pro athlete there’s that what you’ve talked about there’s the routines there’s the training but that does come at a cost of expectation that does come at a cost of
Like you talked about the person down the shop are you going to this year was that something you always struggled with in those moments even away at University was there always the mental side of it that you’re like this is waying a bit heavier on me than it is on some other
Athletes yeah like if the truth be told did I ever believe I could be one of the like a top eight H for m in the world did I ever truly believe I I could run 44 seconds and I probably didn’t you know I I probably kind of thought like I
Was decent in in in an Irish level um but could have go on to the next level and I dabbled a little bit in international Athletics I’d made like teams saer on Euro under 23s like but I got smoked in the race I remember coming last like um and like it was probably
That race in 2005 well hang on a second she’s maybe maybe I am all right like you know and and that’s probably where that internal self-belief probably the seed was sound that maybe I could do something maybe I could have a career in this and like there is then that
Pressure um but the reason I went to England was off 2006 where I went to the European outdoors and I came last in my semi-final and like that was like that was probably one of the best things that could have happened to me you know because had the hype so i’ one of
Europeans suddenly oh yeah we have this young lad coming through in Sprint event blah blah blah you know and you’re on The Late Late Show and all this sort of stuff we on The Late Late Show yeah yeah and I remember people going to me a you’ve made it I remember literally
Remember a lad saying to me oh you’ve made it now you’re on the late late I’m like you don’t get paid to go on The Late Late you know and I remember people just suddenly thought like because I was facing the paper I’d won a medal I was
On The Late Lake people just almost overnight assumed that I was now loaded yeah and like Athletics is not a wealthy sport um and you have this suddenly people have this perception of you that like oh now oh now you’re up here and now you’ve done this and probably going
Back to the question like I don’t think people Grudge that but people almost maybe assume that because I had a certain level of success or you’ve changed now um and that wasn’t the case I think like I good mates good family around me that kept me well grounded and
I never got an ego um off the back of Just One race but I think with me it was always that sort of kind of maybe if I’m honest probably that battle within myself as kind of you know yeah I can do this and I can be one one of the best in
The world and you know after Guttenberg where I ran I ran so bad H in the semi-final that I can remember um I can remember just for the first time like I I was goed I I I was embarrassed and I felt I let an awful lot of people down
And I think the hard part was that was off the back of all5 going into another European championships I was like the name you know people were like oh what’s gillick doing and you know even in the media like oh gillick leading the team and stuff like like this and then I ran
So bad I bonded in a championship and um the aftermath of that was uh you know literally remember sitting down and just kind of reflecting and going what am I doing like what do I want out of this do I want to actually give this a rattler
Because I finished college that year as well so it was a little bit like you know do I get a job and just kind of like crack on with life or do I do I just throw caution the win and just give this a solid goal and that’s where I was
Like but I can’t really do it in Ireland we didn’t have the the infrastructure at the time and I said right I’m going to go over to luer went over to luer I went to London and I went to luer to view uh two different coaching setups and I
Decided ler was the plays for me and um best decision I ever made we always have you zoom out and you look at someone’s story I think we have these inflection points some people just drift down the road and they’re like get the end of the
Road this happens a lot in kind of careers and stuff people like oh I took a promotion I took a promotion I got married and they end up in a destination they’re not really sure how they got there for athletes I find that doesn’t happen that often there’s the hard turn
Points in the road injuries was definitely one of those inflection points for you if we look at 2005 was a positive inflection point injuries were definitely seem to be a negative inflection points where maybe for the first time the demons start creeping in a little bit talk to me about those
Injuries how hard are they to deal with yeah like I like I had a good run at it like 05 06 obviously was a bad performance bounce back from that L bre 2007 2008 2009 were all really good years like I won the Europeans again in
07 went to Olympic Games didn’t go that well for me but bounced back from that probably had the biggest season that I had I came six in the world Champs ran fast and then 2010 decent year as well by this stage now I was getting consistently running fast times you know
So like like some of the fastest in the world you know um and then I made a decision right London Olympics I came six in Berlin World Champs the next Olympics London I can make Podium and that was now where the the belief was really coming true cuz I I’d been so
Consistent running 44 seconds and you know beating good athletes and you know Diamond leagues and all that sort of crack and then I was like right I can podium in London I need to get faster how do I do that I need to improve my out andout base speed so 100 200 times
So I relocated to Florida and um it just went completely wrong um ah just everything I I again you know with success you get people you get voices you get people telling you need to do this you need to do that and probably when I look back I didn’t trust my own
Gut instinct or good feeling I kind of got sidetracked 2010 I was fifth in the Europeans like I missed the goal by point two of a second missed the bronze by 0 Z2 I was got it um I fell in the world indoor Final in h in Doha a race I
Should have won like this this was the year I should have got medals and it didn’t happen so I was I was angry and um you started hanging on Little Voices right I need to make a change went to Florida and um completely different setup completely different setup I was
Very much isolated living by myself the training group came we trained we went home there was no social interaction um Florida again is a funny place like there’s no soul in the place training camp stairs well it’s just a bit Bland there’s no there’s nothing there and I
Got injured I tore my cus muscle um which I didn’t even know I had um I was like wow what’s this and then I I tried to get back I tore it three times in total then I got back on the track Achilles flared up um now was in my head
This was going into the 2011 season um the worlds were coming up I hadn’t I hadn’t um I hadn’t even raced and I remember going I race in New York and I ran so bad so bad hobbled around um 46 High um 468 or something like that it
Was poor time came back to Europe I raced around 47 this was going the wrong direction like I was getting slower and what age at this point I was I would have been what like 28 so it’s not an age it’s not an age related to client
Here well it is yeah Sprinter yeah for 400s like you’re looking at like you’re out and now kind of fastest times it probably be early 20s to mid 20s yeah and then as you get to like 28 29 um that’s when injuries particularly lower limb injuries it’s just about the
Intensity velocity you put through your body whereas you know middle to long you could kind of push that 30s even be competitive into your 40s again the intensity would be a little bit less H but sprinting tends to be around that’s so you know on paper this was the kind
Of the the time when the injuries are going to come um and I I really I got packed in that season and then uh went back to lra again this was now coming into Olympic year I hadn’t raced in 2011 um I resumed training with the group
That I I had prior to going to to Florida and I was I was so far behind and I come remember going what’s going on like I used to be ahead of these guys and now I can’t keep up with them and then on St Patrick’s say 2012 I tore my
Cus again and that was it I knew there and then not going to Olympic Games and and that was really hard because now you’ve the I suppose the business of sport became kind an issue like I I I wasn’t performing so sponsors you know um my gear contract I was getting caught
Uh my grant was now a little bit like I haven’t competed um and what’s that conversation with the sponsors like it’s hard like yeah some of them are very formal like you know where you’d have a contract and it’s like written the contract if you don’t perform you’re getting a
25% reduction blah blah blah and then other kind of sponsors will be a little bit more maybe more personal where you know they’re trying to support you but at the same time like you know you got to remember like we were just coming out of a recession there as well so there
Probably wasn’t as much money floating around um and it’s hard because like you know most people were were really good to me I was very very lucky but at the same time you’re going right I’m 28 now 29 suddenly conversations start going like you know uh what are you going to
Do when it’s all over David you know and then you’re going [Â __Â ] you know and then my mates and all would be nearly like coming into a decade some some of them in careers and I’m going like you know dir now what’s going to happen and and I
Can remember at the end of 2012 um right going to relocate um and my wife Charlotte was working girlfriend at the time we were doing long distance for like two years so she worked in kind of H she worked for the British Olympic Association so she was heavily involved
In London so we were like look let’s try and get back Under One Roof and you know do something so we went to Australia and I trained in CRA great setup loved it out there and still a c of athlete at this point um I got cut that year okay
Yeah I got cut that year um which look you know I I don’t hold the grudge that’s just the nature of high performance sport you have to perform you know in any walk of high performance if you’re not performing you know your neck is is on the Block you know do you
See that then as the end of your pro career when you st making that cash yeah you see that was costing me money yeah you know you know and you know everything’s B at the cost like rent and everything you know gear and all this sort of stuff and then you’re thinking
Oh God like you know what I mean like what I thought I might have at the end of a career to maybe troll towards a mortgage or you know posit on a house is now beginning to dwindle like you know I can remember in austral Australia is not
Cheap and you’d be going shopping like instead of buying the chicken you’re buying the the kangaroo be like just to save a couple of quid like no Peppers Peppers or capsicums they call them in in Australia are very expensive he’s like no no no don’t be getting the peppers you know get the
Frozen stuff you know simple things like that you know and then um got myself back into really good shape I I I I got into a race in Japan in early May and um I can remember there was a load of British athletes overt training uh like
400 meter atlet I knew them all and we were doing a session probably one of my best sessions I was flying I was absolutely flying and um the last rep um Tor my killes and I was now um I was 29 I was this was in about kind of like April
Time I would have been 30 that July and that was that was the Crux of it that was lit can remember the side of the track and Camera you know Sun beating down gorgeous place that was it I am done I am absolutely done with this I
Can’t keep doing this to myself and I retired that was it did you have any plan in your head did you have an idea of no even like so you seen yourself fully as David the 400 meter Sprinter but then you got a that night and you
Wake up the next morning and you look in the mirror who do you see doubt I saw a broken man I’ll be brutally honest yeah it was probably one of the hardest times um I didn’t have a plan I was very much like you know Beijing London Rio and then I’ll retire
And um I made one Olympics and uh yeah I didn’t and this is I I get asked this quite a lot like you know in terms of like did you have a plan to you know what you were doing did you have any interests um of course I had different
Interests and stuff like that but I was all in I was all in and and that’s me like I I I can be very like if I put my mind to something I stick at it and like I had yes I did College I did university
Did a masters and all that but like I went to lra as to become a full-time athlete like that was the goal you have to be all in and this is maybe a flaw in how we develop athletes you have to be all in for high performance sport I
Wasn’t all in and I never made it near your levels I was always hedging you know I came through Law School kingy and got my qualification so I started late when everyone’s like you need to go away riding the bike now I was like I’m hang
On two more years I’m going to get this qualification on me belt other people were all in Allin doesn’t guarantee you success no but it guarantees you a chance at it and if you’re not all in I don’t think you have that chance even yeah yeah and like yeah there’s a lot
Lot of Truth in that and I I think for me I would I wouldn’t have got to where I got it if I was a little bit you know I’m going to do a little bit of this and a little bit of that it was and that’s that’s me all in
And um I think I suppose in hindsight you look at it now and you kind of go very fragile you know what I mean God if something happens doesn’t go your way it could all fall apart and that’s kind of what happened now In fairness like you
Know I was 30 you know and I can remember getting the ferry you know even coming over to you today you know I’m looking at the ferry yeah I can remember going down in October um 2006 getting on the ferry with my mom driving over and
Um I can remember looking back and I don’t want to get too deep or anything but looking back at the the towers and you know Dublin Port the pigeon house and kind of thinking right you know what I was 20 22 23 at the time um I’m just
Making a promise with myself going I’m going to give this a last I’m 30 I’m going to give it a go and see what happens I was now approaching 30 injured and that for me was like right I’ve done what I wanted to do in this in in
Athletics I I made a world final I won a couple of matters i r 44 seconds you know I can be content with what I’ve done um let’s leave it there and I Tau at that moment bang this was easy to do Grant but going back to what you said
Like what happened when I woke up the next day I [Â __Â ] man I was raging I was absolutely raging like I can remember Charlotte because we were only there for a year we just bought a mattress in the apartment we live we didn’t buy a bed just rock yeah yeah
Like just like a mattress on the ground and um I remember com back in and she had did she just done all the washing and everything was neatly folded and I just had like it just all just ah the anger frustration and the mattress and clothes went up in the air and
Everything then crashes to the ground and she’s looking at me going well you’re [Â __Â ] cleaning this up you know I can remember Dan just thinking yeah what am I going to do I think because there’s a few bits to it that maybe if someone’s not an athlete they don’t
Realize like athletes are exceptionally good at setting goals so you know you have your season totally mapped out from your various indoor uh competitions your outdoor stuff but if you’re training week mapped out and to back to your training day back to each hour like each hour resting here I’m training here I’m
Sleeping here everything’s planned out and then you go to bed and you wake up the next day you’re met by the realization that you’re never going to hit those goals that you had in your head and they have no structure to your day anymore and you couple that with the
Physical decline you get from not training every day which we know the mental health benefits of exercise it’s nearly a perfect storm of stuff coming together 100% yeah yeah and that was probably the biggest thing that it took me an awful long time to grasp was like
That lack of a purpose you know that having that clarity of a goal what am I working towards and then everything works back from that like you mentioned you know our year was periodized into like four week blocks three weeks heavy training one week on of recovery and go
Again um and then every day you get up I knew what I needed to do I knew what numbers I needed to hit in training you go home done you get up the next day you go again and it’s all building towards something that keeps you ticking keeps
You hungry keeps you alive you get the nerves you get the adrenaline buz stuff that just motivates you and inspires you um and then suddenly it’s all gone and that was something that um I I really struggled with you know I never even thought it was going to be an issue
Because what actually happened was I went back to the apartment you know grumpy and all the rest of it went to bed got up the next day and had an email to do uh um asking me what I do celebrity Master Chef and you know this
Is the Mad thing and I was like sure [Â __Â ] it I’m doing nothing else I might as well do it so I ended up coming back to doubling solely to do that this was in the summer of 2003 I wasn’t racing um career was over I hadn’t like come out
And said all and retiring I just I was injured and came back and I did Master Chef and that filled a void um just keeps you busy as it it kept me busy yeah and then like even the hardest part in that year was September because that’s when you’d resume training that’s
When the leaves began to change and Autumn um kind of descended that’s when I would kind of get the furry back over to L I’d resume training right what’s the goal ready to go again Nick what are we up to what’s the plan looking like
Right what we going to do you map about your year from a high level and then you go right ready to go that didn’t happen and I woke up in the Box room I grew up in with my mom and dad’s house and just thought what am I going to do with the
Rest of my life and that was that was when things really became um reality in terms of I’m not I’m not a runner anymore and I like the identity everything that defined me as a person was suddenly gone the goal set is really powerful I went bike packing last year
Have you ever gone bike packing bike packing I’ve over the summer I’ll get you packing in so it’s exactly the same right so you’re getting up in the morning on your bike and youve your bag strapped to your bike so everything you need is strapped to your bikes you know
You’re not carrying shorts flip flops we went across Spain so it’s like shorts flip flops t-shirt and one change of cycling kit so you just get up in the morning and you kind of look at a place on a map have a look at the wind and
Look at the weather and you go right we can do 200k today we’ve nothing else to do we can do 200k so you just go up on your Ro from point A to point B and you do this every day we’ve done 10 days 250k a day started in
Rode up to beitz then across the Pines finished in Jona went in the piss and Geron and then got a fly home but brilliant fun but I was looking back on it and going like why was I so happy doing that like and yeah I was with
Great friends and we great laughs along the way but when I sat and I tried to really analyze it I actually think it was the goal setting part I think it was the getting up in the morning and something almost Hunter G or Primal about it where I could think back to
When we were just these wild beasts and you only had one job in the morning to get up in the morning get to where you were going and eat when you got there yeah and that’s all I have to do you get up you set a goal you complete the goal
And it’s like goal complet Loop closed simplistic ease for award do it all again I was like yeah I can rarely remember a time where I’ve been happier than doing something that simple and it definitely highlight for me yeah goal set super important but also how little
We need to be happy we’re really simple creatures and I think you’re absolutely now on the headge yeah it’s we we we over complicate things we kind of we think about what we might want and what we might need but in reality it’s it’s the simple things but even reflecting
And actually kind of analyzing that for yourself and going what made me happy even that sense of awareness that you are happy yeah you know is is probably one of the fundamental things you can take from that and again in my experience that was probably something that I probably didn’t realize when I
Was training what was making I do I enjoy this like what is it that uh that motivates me in this space why do you think you did enjoy it that I did enjoy it yeah I I I just loved I loved having that purpose I loved getting up um
Training working hard and uh hitting the numbers I I love that Mo inspired me and empowered me um and that’s what I loved working towards that greater goal do you think you needed to be International class would you have been just as happy if you were setting a goal
You were achieving that goal but it was at a much lower level did you need that public Acclaim that attention I don’t think so right I I don’t think I need needed my ego stroke um I like there might have been other people in in my kind of space that would
Have like that recognition more um for me I didn’t crave like Fame you know I didn’t go into races thinking I need this because I want to be on the late L I want my face in the paper that never really kind of came into it um and that’s me being
Honest I think that was probably something I maybe had to deal with more when my career was over over where you’re kind of thinking all right where’s my relevance in in the world now hang on you know people don’t care that I ever ran you know um but when I was
Competing I I loved the battle I absolutely love I loved the moment when you wake up on race day you’re nervous you’re anxious you know you get yourself prepped you go down to the train and track to warm up you know you’re looking at the stadium you’re looking at your
Competitors I loved that fight and that do you think we’re do you think we’re actually as as a species even do you think we’re designed for that much attention like you’ve 80,000 people in these stadiums all eyes on you and you know I often wonder this with rock stars
When they finish like you know you look at you two and stuff perform how’ you go back do to sitting on a laptop in your house on your own and lock down or something and you’re like how do you have that contrast it really really difficult very difficult but it’s not
Normal it’s not you know and and and what I find with that as well is like there’s only very few people in the world that experienced that and when you’re talking to someone who’s never experienced that they’ll never understand it it even goes back to hell
Week and we were told this going to hell week they’re like when you finish this nobody will understand what you’ve gone through so that’s why you need to stick together so a WhatsApp group and stuff like that because when we’d come off that people were like oh I say that was
Hard and you’re like hard you have no idea how hard it was and how can I articulate to you you know how difficult that was likewise you know when you’re racing you know those emotions that you get and I don’t understand condescending or patronizing but an awful lot of
People won’t experience that high of going into a stadium or the Euphoria you get from like running a personal bet never mind winning a race but running a personal best bettering your your your your performance your best ever performance and it’s really difficult and that’s the void that people talk
About that’s the hole that suddenly is is is vacant when it’s all over um and you can never get that back now for me personally I tried to get that back I was constantly searching for something that going to fill that void for the years that you know that came
After my retirement and then I realized David you can’t it’s not out there and I think for people who rock stars musicians when they’re in 880,000 people and you know all eyes on you like it’s a very surreal unique experience that very hard to to replicate Christy Moore has a song
Uh I’m struggling to think of the name of it it’s about an Irish lad who went abroad and I don’t even know the year he’s 18800 I’ll send you on a link after the show to a brilliant song it’s an Irish ballot but this lad goes abroad
And he he’s fighting on the Ducks and Cork and he’s gotting a reputation as a great fighter and he’s the strongest lad in the Ducks so he goes over to the states and he starts fighting and he works his way up and he gets a shot in Madison Square Garden at the World
Heavyweight tile fight and he shows up drunk and he gets boxed around and then is true story you make a movie on this and then you know they wrote him off and then he works his way back up and he gets another shot in Madison Square
Garden and he botles it again shows up drunk gets box around but he I always think of this lad as someone who just craved that attention because after that he went away and he reinvented himself and he became an opera singer and he was filling cigie Hall as an opera singer
And he was dating the the you know the predominant or the preeminent actresses at the time and stuff like this but he died homeless and pennes on the streets in London wow and it’s just such a tragic story but I often think about that with athletes where we you
Finish and you’re trying to chase to fill that void but how would you ever get something that’s 880,000 people shouting your name again it’s you don’t you don’t and everything comes with that yeah yes there’s one thing in the stadium where there it’s Pack full of
People and it’s a world final and all the rest of it but it’s even the aftermath of that when you come home and it’s the your nearest and dearest suddenly putting you on pedestals and stuff like that and everybody means well don’t get me wrong but like it’s very
Hard to replace that when it’s all gone and I think that’s why the phrase is atlet di tce you know um and there’s a lot of research into this and it’s kind of you know the the kuer Ross bereavement cycle is now or transition curve as they call it now um change
Curve has really come to the four because you go through a bement you lose part of you or you you lose a certain way of life and again I can relate to that because it took me a while to actually accept that that way of life
That career who I was is no longer there um and it’s almost accepting that that phase of my life that chapter of my life is now over um we go again have you seen Michael Phelps the documentary narat W gold yeah it’s brilliant yeah brilliant it’s totally eye opening though I we
Spoke off her a little bit I came back after kind of return from Cy came back good buddy of M Peter ry’s visually impaired and he wanted to Pilot WR a few worlds and try and qualify for the Olympics and I went back pil with him and you know immediately plugged into
The Cy Ireland high performance or sport Ireland high performance setup where you’re getting carded and you’re up in the Institute and it’s great access to physios and sports psychologist come on an awful lot yeah what an unbelievable but you’re up there and so the Olympics gets the third for a year
For Tokyo for the pandemic so it goes from 2020 to 2021 Peter Rings me he’s like here look I’m not too forced on hanging around the extra year cuz I have kind of career plans and so I’m like yeah look I’m not too bothered either but what I was struck by was
I got a phone call from the manager like yeah Peter’s pulling the plug I’m like yeah and he’s like well look it’s been a pleasure thanks very much that was it zero now look at that time my identity wasn’t hung up on being an athlete anymore well Peter had been in that
System for two Olympic Cycles you know we’d been in Rio and I thought like the system to make these Champions like a sport psychologist you know ringing you all the time just like leave me alone I just want to train I don’t need the chat to the sport psychologist but then at
The time you need them it’s like the phone’s not ringing anymore yeah nobody’s talking to you the transition out of sport cuz the system to make these athletes it ends when the athletes life cycle ends there’s no there’s no after care system to it and this is a big kind
Of big area and it’s an area that probably there was no um there was nothing in place to support the athletes coming back down so exactly what you said you’re building up the athletes to for their kind of arguably one of their biggest moments in their life H and
Olympic or par Olympic Games and then it’s all over and you leave fine like heading into Paris this year like it’ll this will be the end of of people’s career some of them because they’re they’re fine by Olympics um now In fairness to the like The Institute I
Know they they’ve set up like atlete life skills where they’re trying to prepare atlet for the aftermath uh and even now they’re kind of looking at um withholding a proportion a certain percent of their Grant yeah it is yeah so par payment parachute payment um because you’re not paying any um any
Prsi or any kind of um uh social welfare so you can’t Avail of anything post career which again in my experience was like I can’t even claim the do you know what I mean like oh how am I going to pay the bills um but that is one of the
Key things is like yes we’re we’re building for success we’re kind of working with all the holistic kind of services in relation to Performance but we have to remember that there’s human beings involved here and some people will be great they’ll have exit plans they’ll have a kind of strategy in place
For you know the day to they retire but what I have found in my experience is that the athletes who kind of are able to make that decision I’m going to retire will have a better plan whereas the athlete who might have to retire due in true injury um that’s the difficult
One yeah and and I think it’s kind of looking at okay and it go goes back to what we were saying there about like you know you know you’re all in and Allin is fantastic okay and in hindsight yeah I was all in and I got my rewards from
That but maybe I should have had other things going on maybe and not other things going on like side hustles stuff like that but maybe just other interests or things that maybe okay yeah work on this um as a bit of a side gig that might kind of like turn into something
When the day comes that you do retire it’s nearly like the higher to high the lower to low big time yeah like I look at I’ve mentioned as an example a few times in the podcast like Bradley Wiggins in a cycling context you can’t achieve anymore you know we won the Tour
To France and you won the Olympics six days later in London as home Olympics a million people on the time trial course but if you fast forward forward if you’re to believe reports I don’t know Bradley personally but if you to believe reports he’s struggling with addiction broken family difficult mental health
Situation it’s like the very system that made this great Champion is also maybe a byproduct of making these great Champions it breaks the person it’s the the massive Heise it’s very hard to replace that and it’s also the way of life do you know I mean there was a
Certain way of life that he probably got not just him but a lot of athletes at that high level get accustom too and then suddenly it’s all it’s all it’s all gone and you chase those highs it goes back to that void and again I was very similar like you know you’re you’re
Constantly tring to oh this is the thing that’s going to fix me I’ll jump into this oh no that doesn’t work so you get quite erratic you know and your behavior is a bit erratic and there’s lack of clarity you know so for someone like me who had a clear routine strategy purpose
Goals all that sort of stuff then waking up one day going like I don’t need to do anything today I remember waking up on a Saturday and and turning to Charlotte going like what do normal people do on a Saturday because for like I don’t know
Like my whole entire life I trained on a Saturday morning go to the farmers market go to the farmers but absolutely you know um do a park run um but all you know it’s just that way of life was very different and look your identity and you
Know I can remember I panicked I took a job um and I was in the office over over in h Warrington in England and you know and maybe this is where the ego kind of came in a bit where I kind of probably for the first time nobody gave a [Â __Â ]
How fast I run a 400 is it just in this is right here listen just do your job and get it done like you know and I found that very different and very strange and very weird I can remember in the office like people would come in a
Half eight they’d sit at the desk they wouldn’t leave their desk until half hour they literally eat at the desk drink at the desk um and then get up and leave and then come back the following day and again I don’t mean to be sound condescending but this was just really
Different to the lifestyle I was used to and and you know that kind of I suppose um transition into the real world was uh was hard yeah it was difficult how long did that sort of it’s like a analogy of a boat drifting without a destination how
Long’s that period last a like yeah for me like like the initial like I retired um 2013 um uh I’d say three years even even yeah yeah like I I took the first job um cuz I focus on money I was like I need money I need money give me more money um
And then off the back of Master Chef I was getting a couple of gigs to do this that and the other before I knew it I was like basically working seven days a week because I was saying yes to everything yeah I can’t turn this down this could be an opportunity I’ll do
That was it helping um no put it off like I wasn’t wasn’t doing any sort of training um was eating crap food I was always tired um I suddenly kind of found myself s propelled into a weird environment where off the back of Master Chef you’re doing a bit more TV stuff
And you know I was I was doing food demos and all this sort of crack things that like I never thought I’d ever be doing and probably you know put myself way out of my comfort zone which yeah isn’t a bad thing but anxiety was beginning to come into it um and then
Kind of that that I I began like like I I began Comfort eating as well um like just the anxiety the nerves um that knot in my stomach kind of questioning who am I why am I here what what’s going on like um that went on for it was quite
Bad for one year and then I packed in the job I got a new job where I was kind of working in in the kind of corporates where I was in a lot of like high performance I working for a high performance company and that was a bit
Strange as well because now I’m talking about all the stuff that I used to do and I used to do this and I used to do that and inside I was like I’m falling apart here like and that went on for another year and then we got married in
2014 um Charlotte was pregnant um 2015 and then late it just got worse and worse and it got to a point where I began having panic attacks and I dreaded Mondays like what’s a panic attack like just well your whole world the like the whole world the roof the walls is all
Begin to cave in on you you just feel completely UT overwhelmed your chest Titans um your body Titans you’re just anxious you’re rigid um you’re frustrated you’re angry you you just you want to you want to hurt yourself um and you just lose control you just completely lose control and these began
To become a little bit more regular um I dreaded Monday mornings because it was just Saturday I was okay Sunday I was anxious about Monday and you could feel yourself tensing up I could feel my skin beginning to almost it felt like it was bubbling I came out and like soras says
I couldn’t sleep I had insomnia um literally couldn’t I get it I’d be so tired compounding all compounding yeah and I get into bed and just the arguments in my head you know you’ve got those two voices and one just brighten you briting you’re an idiot why did you
Do this why did you ever go to America if you didn’t go to America this wouldn’t have happened and um I can remember one day and i’ I’ve told the story openly as well like um like Charlotte’s pregnant you know heavily pregnant probably seven months eight months pregnant and um she’s sitting at
The kitchen table on on a Sunday and I storm in and I have like I’m ranting and raving and stuff like that and having a complete another panic attack and I can remember I was trying to you know I think I was trying to go out on my bike
And I couldn’t find sunglasses you know and I had a complete and utter meltdown couldn’t find her I couldn’t change the lens or something trivial and I just set me off and I remember throwing the the bike shoe against the wall um thrown all the clothes out of the Wardrobe I go
Downstairs she’s at the kitchen table I’m ranting I’m raving um she gets upset and I can remember just just literally split seconds almost coming up for air and going [Â __Â ] I I need help this isn’t right I need help and that was that was
Late I think 2015 and um I packed in the second job so I had no job baby Jew and February of that year and um I just I got help that was that was to start that was that was um I remember ringing and it’s funny because like I I’d gone to
Various talks and stuff like that and I me to talk where this gu got up and spoke about mental health um I actually knew him he was two years ahead of me in my own school um played football at a very high level had to retire H through
Injury grew up my area like I I knew him you know and I never knew this about him and he spoke and I remember sitting in the audience going he’s he’s talking to me here like everything he said resonates and had his phone uh number in
My phone and I rang him and that was that was day one that was late uh 2015 they say you need to his Rock Bottom before you get help but from what I’ve seen there’s actually two Rock bottoms there’s the Dark one and then there’s an even darker one like
Addiction is a tread that runs through my family it runs through a lot of ourish families and regrettably it runs through mine as well and I’ve seen family members slide from The Dark One to the darker one the dark like bottom that you don’t back from yeah how do you
Stop yourself sliding from a dark place to a place you don’t come back from yeah like like again I was going through that I I can I can understand why people would would end up in those Dark Places um I don’t know what it was for me that
I never really I never took to the drink um or anything kind of harder than that like I can remember one weekend going out and just literally going a complete another Bend there and like Charlotte was ringing me and stuff like that and you know you’re just canceling the phone
Canceling the phone and you know literally a roll over go again the next day but it never it never really grabbed a hold of me and I don’t know why to be brutally honest I I don’t know what was what stopped me um like yeah it’s but I can understand
It’s to again going back to maybe your reference Bradley Wiggins there like looking for that high looking for that reason that you just get away from the world you know maybe whatever’s going on you can kind of mute that by going on the beer or doing whatever it might be
Um just to quieten down that voice inside your head and like I think maybe maybe with me I I don’t really know but maybe it was a case that I I yeah I can’t really answer I don’t really know why what was what why didn’t I go that
Direction you were talking about you contemplated physical harm was that a line you ever crossed where you started self Haring or you taught of you know maybe you’ll just be better off not in this world um yeah I thought about it an awful lot yeah yeah
Um yeah like a lot of dark talk um thoughts to be honest with you um even to the point of like right this what I’m going to do you know but the anger and frustration I like I don’t know to find self harm um would I
Hit myself yeah I’d hit myself um like moments where even in front of Charlotte like sometimes it would just get too much and I I’d like you’d punch yourself you know what I mean you’d slap yourself you’d hit yourself you’d and what is that like rationalize that for me or is there any
Rationalizing you just again I can only speak of my kind of experience but I was just I hated myself I felt I put myself in this position and I couldn’t get past that I blamed myself for the decisions I made why didn’t I back myself why didn’t I
Trust my Goin why didn’t I get on get on that stupid plane to America and these were the talk you know I was in a bathroom at Manchester Airport and floods of tears and after saying goodbye to Charlotte when I went to America and I’m like I
Knew there and then I shouldn’t have gone why did I go why did I go and this was always the recurring kind of battle inside my head so I blamed myself um I was angry I was frustrated so it’s still all about that athletic career you can’t
Let that go couldn’t let it go so I blame myself for like the losses I blame myself for the defeats why didn’t I win that Europeans in 2010 why did I mess up in that world final in 2010 you know um why did I listen to that person you know
And I I felt like I let myself down and that was the hardest part you know you let yourself down and this was the the the narrative that was going in my head the internal dialogue and it was constant and I couldn’t shut it up so I
Like I remember one day trying to go for a run and I got about probably a k and a half from the house and just stuffed and walked home I was like what the [Â __Â ] am I doing this for this is a joke and then
I’d like I’d binge eat you know um you be you’d be amazed about what I used to put away like I could just eat and neat and eat and then I’d I’d wallow and self-pity you know and then I I just hate the world what stopped you crossing the
Line I think to be honest with you Charlotte got pregnant um and I kind of realized like this isn’t just about me anymore like you know um we’re having a baby like and like I think that was the Catalyst for Change and didn’t happen straight away I go back to that that
Sunday when she’s had the kitchen table in tears and you know she’s pregnant big bump and you’re thinking [Â __Â ] like how am I how am I going to be a good dad I’m going to be a good husband and that was just that Split Second that I kind of I
Realized I needed help I needed I can’t I can’t live like this I needed help whereas prior to that I like nobody knew what was going on you know I used to hide it all I wouldn’t talk about it um I didn’t know how to articulate it and I
Kept saying nobody will understand me nobody will understand my journey so so I’ll just I’ll just shut up and the other side of that was then I I felt I had to be that person so you put the mask on you be that jovial person I I
Was working for a sports brand looking after accounts around Ireland you know he’d walk into a sports shop people might recognize me so I felt I had to be a certain way so that was very um that that kind of absorbed an awful lot of
Energy you know um and then you get back in the car and you’d be like you’re a [Â __Â ] idiot you know you’re a fraud you’re a fake this is again how I talked to myself and that’s things will bubble up and then you you’d be pounding the
The the uh steering wheel and all this you know um and then you like The Mask would come off i’ go home and then Charlotte would see the person you know me for me you know whereas when I leave the house you put the mask on and you be
That person and I think that like probably yeah when when when she was pregnant that was when I realized I can’t I can’t leave her I can’t leave a baby like you know I need to I need to do something have you forgiven yourself for those decisions
As in the decisions I said the decisions that you spent a lot of time regretting getting on the plane not trusting your ghost yeah you I have now but like I’m retired 10 years like it’s you know that question of like how long does it take
Like you know do I still work through it yeah do I still go to counsel yeah I still go I go every second week now in 2016 I went every week you know it’s it’s still something that um will always be a part of I i’ I’ve forgiven myself
Um and I look back now and I kind of go you know initially they regrets regrets whereas now I’m like I gave it a go I gave it a rattle you know you have to try these things you have to you have to sometimes just just jump and see what
Happens I did that when I went to ler at work well I did it when I went to America it didn’t but like that’s life and I think I’ve accepted that you know I’m I’m glad I tried these things because if you don’t shoot you don’t
Score um and I think it’s taken it’s taken a bit of a process to allow myself to actually kind of look back with fondness of my career I hated my career for a long time like I wouldn’t I wouldn’t go back there I wouldn’t go back look at medals renting you know
Because I’d always failed there was an element of failure in it all whereas now I look back and I I go gez you know what fair play to me like and I gave it a goal um I went to Beijing didn’t run that well didn’t feel I deserved the
Olympic tattoo the Olympic rings you know I said I’ll go to London and then I’ll get them never made London and it was only in 20 17 on my birthday Charlotte got me a voucher to go and get the Rings she’s like you you should do
This for yourself and she was right you know and I think it’s a process it’s about understanding you it’s um and that was probably the the the greatest thing about going to going to counsel and actually talking about it you know by talking I was able to process it I was
Able to understand as to why always was feeling a certain way why I always thinking a certain way um but also getting back to like what’s important to me like what are the things that I enjoy doing and one of those was running you know I’ve been running since I was a
Little kid and then suddenly I literally stopped overnight and I think those thoughts and those feelings the dark ones they might sound extreme but they’re very rational like in the context of oh I had all my reasons as to why you know all the reasons you know
Like this is why I’m going to do this yeah you know I questioned what what I was on this planet for like you know because before it was defined I was a runner I was working towards this that and the other and now suddenly I’m kind of like why am
I here you didn’t have a vocabulary to express that you didn’t come that’s changed so much in 10 years and for people listening that might sound weird now but literally 10 years ago you couldn’t from the time you were on playground in school shown weakness was
Not something you ever done or you were the kid that got picked on and nobody wanted to be the kid that got picked on and then you move into sport where you actually any sign weakness is an advantage to competitors you’re a gladiator you go to the arena you
Portray this image of invincibility but it’s the mindset of faster fitter stronger show no weakness that that was it like you’re standing in a on a like the start line in the world final against seven other Lads you know you’ve got to be you’ve got to be tough you’ve
Got to be mentally strong you’ve got to go through your own process and forget about everybody else you know and like that’s what’s bread into you and that comes with the training and the environment and all the rest of it so for me when I exited that kind of world
It was like you don’t really talk about these things and so how could I right and this sounds Bonkers right but like I did Master Chef and suddenly like I was getting a bit of profile and you know you’re on this that and the other and
You know I I did a cookbook and I was endorsing certain products I was on the side of buses and bus shelters and like people were coming to me go Jesus get like fair play to you’re flying it fair play here got the world of your feet
Well done well done whereas inside it was a complete opposite so how in my mind can I turn around to you after you going jeez well done David to turn around go oh actually I’m struggling you know you it just it’s it’s strange it’s weird I didn’t have the words the vocab
So you just go oh yeah cheers thanks and that you just move on so you hide it an easiest thing to hide I would have never taught and I don’t know why because there’s not a stereotype although we like to think there’s a stereotype of someone who’s
Suffering with mental health if the last five 10 years of thought us an there’s not a stereotype like I would have looked at you and thought exactly like you’re saying well there’s a lot of the World At His Feet he’s a good looking lad he’s in it athlete he’s won gos he’s
Represented Ireland he’s gone to the Olympics he’s lived the dream now it’s time to you know just brow down you know enjoy the fruits here heard but it’s hard to do that cuz you’re always on the go and the other side of it as well I
Think in the last 10 years like so much has changed with social media now you go on social media and it’s all about like oh you got to go get it you know get a high performance let’s go let’s go let’s go whereas like a mundane lifestyle is
Like oh you failed yeah and that’s not right you know I think you know we have to accept who we are and where we’re at and be comfortable with that instead of always looking for more and more more and I did that I used to compare myself
On social media to a whole range of other athletes who had retired and moved on and you see oh they’re starting a business or they’re doing this TV and you’re thinking why am doing that oh you’re an idiot you’ve missed a boat you failed why you need more you need more
And you know even going in and kind of working with a high performance company you know who was doing these programs in the corporate world where it was like yeah go get it this this this I got sucked into that and I was constantly kind of look at myself going I need to
Do more I need to do more I need to do more and that was just Relentless but it’s hard isn’t it you need to the stoics call that the honic treadmill I’m not sure if you’re reading his stoicism but you’re on this treadmill basically with a carrot on a stick and you’ll
Never reach that car like you happy when I get the car I’d be happy when I get the house i’ be happy when I get the sponsorship there i’ be happy when I hit these download figures it doesn’t from what I can see I’m definitely not a
Mental health expert so take this with a pinch of Sal but what makes me happy when I sleep well when I eat well when I train when I set goals when I spend time with friends and family I’m happy and I don’t think that’s a prescription but
It’s a [Â __Â ] starting points do that stuff and then see how you’re feeling but you know what like I now realize that and I now completely 100% agree with you but it’s taken me a long time to get to that point so the initial couple of years I was yes yes yes do
This do this yeah got to do it opportunity this going to lead to something that’s going to fill the void it didn’t work I was always chasing that carrot and then through counsil and talking about it began to understand about the me I was actually like looking
Under the Bonnet going okay I’m talking about this it’s beginning to make sense and that’s where sport began to come back into my life um I began cycling a little bit I began up around the hills around kind of double mountains stuff like that out out where I live and then
You know you know lockdown came I got involved with the cycl Ireland the zift thing um theft League loved that um then did a little bit of cycle across realized that I I wasn’t fit I need to get back fit started running again I hate running I need a goal I’ll do
Double maritan and that was where things began to change a little bit where I had a bit of routine I got a coach bit of accountability I started actually enjoying running because again coming from like a Sprint background going up to endurance completely different different sport I had to start at like
Zero even minus five if you like and build from there and it completely changed my mindset in terms of what exercise is started doing the basic kind of things out running enjoying my running not killing myself routine and that was a huge um just a massive
Benefit to me and again I can relate to what you’re saying there what makes what makes me happy is when I’m exercised I feel good about myself it’s like the instruction book for a human should say that like you need to be outside you need to be moving you need to be putting
Good fuel in you need to be resting yeah all of us not just Elite athletes yeah but I can go back a couple of years and again I’ve often told this story where I I and the thing is I knew what I I knew what I should have been doing but
Then ego began to came into it a little bit where like you know my local park run H up in Marley Park I’ll go up and I’ll do a 5K and I I get to Wednesday Thursday do it do it and then it was like Friday I’m not going up there
Tomorrow no way you know because again I was fearful of what other people might think about me and compare me oh you should be doing this you should be doing that and long story short one day I eventually got up there and they gave me the big welcome local Olympia and I
Remember just je get me out of here and I’d never ran a 5k this is the amazing thing I was a 400 meter Runner like that was I was specialized 5K different sport didn’t need to do it and the bell went to the buzzer and I took off you know
Again ego pinged it for the first K got up through the forest hit 2K I was buckling Wheels were com a like I was like oh my God this is horrific and then a fell past me pushing a boogy um and I remember he kind of glancing he looks
Back at me and I knew what he was thinking I was dying everyone went past me but I finished it and Charlotte was with me Saturday morning out in the open Marley Park Green Space and I remember kind of going like Charlotte I actually kind of I actually kind of enjoyed that
Even though it was pure hell I enjoyed it and that became a bit of a go-to so every Saturday I began going up doing Park runs um and it’s funny like I can remember finishing one time and I was improving it wasn’t running that quick I
Don’t even know if it broke 20 but his stage and I remember fella kind of turned to me goes oh what did you run and I was like oh 20 minutes or whatever and he was like really I thought you’d run about 16 minutes and he walked off
And I remember thinking [Â __Â ] you you know um but it just it began it it started something I began to feel better about myself I was going to counseling at the time you know on a weekly basis I began eating a little bit better I was resting a little bit better I looked
Forward to Saturdays you know I looked forward to going up in the morning kicking off the weekend and kind of the right way um you know little market there grabbing a coffee just chilling out just calming things down slow start to the day and that became a go too and
Over a couple of weeks I began to do that improve a little bit and then eventually I was like oh maybe maybe I’ll go down to the local track jumped in with a couple of uh junior athletes and knew the coach in tala Tuesday Thursday park run Saturday my week at
Structure and that’s what I loved you know what’s really interesting you went to lub and you found your people yeah you found you know you’re coming from the peer pressure of Dublin or you come for a drink and you’re like that’s not who I am this is not me I’m not happy
Then you get there and you’re around your people then you retire and you’re not around your people again you’re in corporates and I can remember sitting in was a legal event when I went briefly after finishing last school I was like will I go c will I not I hadn’t decided
If I was gone out offers going away to France ring for a team but I hadn’t decided if I was going to take them and I’m sitting in a function in one of these I’m not sure if you ever been to them super pretentious gentleman’s clubs
At the top of Steven’s green no not me look so I’m sitting there at one of these Kings in legal dinners and the RTE News anchor Brian Dobson is there and there’s all these politicians and judges and you know up and come EMB barrers and they’re all drinking wine and eating you
Know four or five courses probably 5,000 calories or something in the meal and I’m going out to the bathroom like I don’t even need to go to the toilet I’m just getting out to the bathroom to just get out of there I’m sitting there and I’m texting me misses and going like I
Need to get out here this just this isn’t me like my skin is crawling these aren’t my people like and then just getting across to a Cy team and everyone’s broke and just feeling like is my people like it seems like when you got into that corporate environment again it’s like I’m back
With a group that aren’t my people and now you’re back to the park run and you’ve gone full circle you’re back to your people yeah exactly that and even uh like someone recently asked me like oh how was your transition back into uh to home and like I had to stop myself
And go actually you know what like it’s probably something I’m still kind of dealing with you know what I mean because everyone’s got different kind of ways to their lives and things that they’re interested in and for me to kind of move away and find kind of as you say
My people over in lbrand that kind of environment that ecosystem which I loved to then come back and kind of reintegrate into the real world and maybe kind of the area I grew up in and the people I grew up in it takes time and you know throwing myself into the
Corporate world and kind of trying to trying to navigate that and it was very different and very very just a bit like constraint you know and that again it took an off lot of time but all it took a lot of awareness to kind of go
Actually how am I feeling about all this like this is all a bit like this is all a bit fast this is all a bit like new um and it’s probably again it’s taken me an aw long time to kind of grasp that and actually understand how I feel in this
Environment um and when I when I when I do that and even talking about it now you kind of go back to well what makes me happy where do I feel that I’m getting the oxygen where do I feel like I’m getting the air and that goes back
To like getting out and exercising like and I know it sounds really basic and I’m not saying oh exercise is the is the be Orlando but for me that’s my space um and even going back and doing kind of like the park runs and like just that
Sense of community when you you rock up there like in what I find is nobody nobody really cares nobody cares who I am it’s like everyone’s doing it for their own their own reasons and even with hell week like you know there’s easier ways of getting yourself on TV
And what struck me about winning streak yeah like what struck me about getting involved in that was like straight away in day one when you begin to kind of chat to these people before it all kicked off we were in a hotel for the night before and on that morning before
It all kicked off some of these people had never met some of these people had watched on TV but they were all doing it for their own reasons they weren’t doing it to get their the mugs on TV they had their own personal uh reasons as to why
And I love that and I think that’s the core of it all is getting back to what makes you you and what are the things that kind of really work for you and through counseling I began to understand the little triggers the little things that suddenly if I wasn’t doing them I
Could feel I could feel it getting close I could feel the skin begin to bubble and the voice begin to come into the head what can I do and you manage that so you build up your own little toolbox and you know the best thing I’ve done
Over the last couple of years is is getting back and exercis on a regular basis by far I think you’re quite uniquely positioned because you’ve lived through experiences that very few humans have lived through You’ve Won gold medals you’ve been to Olympics you’ve been in stadiums with 880,000 people all
Focused on you and there is there is a chunk of athletes that have experienced that but then there’s also athletes that can articulate themselves and you’re kind of in that V diagram where you have a great story to tell and you’re very able to tell that story do you feel
Because you’re maybe a little bit uniquely positioned do you feel you have a calling to channel this into a a challenge or a cause now do you feel that calling um yeah I suppose over the last couple of years what I found is um like I’ve got very comfortable been open
And honest and just saying it how it is um and you need so much confidence to do that yeah and it’s t this H this hasn’t happened overnight like you know what I mean it’s I can remember I wrote it in a blog like I
Didn’t talk about it and then I wrote it and I got huge kind of interaction off the back of that where I got an awful lot of people what really struck me was the amount of people that said I can relate to that and particularly men and
I had one guy in particular that said to me he goes like I played G my whole entire life he was 35 and he said um I’ve played GA my whole entire life played a bit of Intercounty um but played my club and I’ve now retired and
He said I’m struggling he said I didn’t realize how how much that was involved in my life everything socially mates all that came from that area and now he was retiring from that and he really struggled and that struck Accord with me because it really highlighted that as
Men we don’t talk about these things it’s like you know that that armor is on us and we just we just shut up about it and you don’t talk about those things and it also kind of highlighted how many people are like me because what I found
When I started talking to people that I wasn’t the only person so how many people are out there suffering and silent and that’s the calling now if I can Inspire one person to just tell it how it is or make a phone call or check in with a counsel whatever it might be
That’s a massive positive and all it takes is for one person and that’s that’s what I get a kick out of I don’t know how many people are going to listen to this and actually you know do something off the back of it and hopefully people positively will do
Something and that that’s a win um and I think is it a calling um maybe it is yeah yeah um I like to motivate people I like to inspire people I like to I like to keep things very simple as well there’s no secret source to all of this
I think it’s it’s trying to kind of accept who you are and find out who you are and what are the things and you hit the nail in the head what makes you happy you know when do you feel comfortable in your own skin or are you
Always trying to be someone else you always trying to fit a narrative and like slot in it’s not a life’s not a jigsaw you you kind of find things as you go and I think with me been open and honest um and checking in myself and particularly like you know going to
Council but also you know very lucky to have a very supportive wife that’s that’s gone through it all with me sounds like a saint she is and you know the hard thing for her was like people would always go to her and go how’s David how’s David but they never go
Charot how are you you know cuz she’s dealing with all this she she like she would wake up in the morning and wouldn’t know what David she’s going to get is it going to be the person that like you know she first met and over in
England and you know or is she going to meet David who is just down the dumps doesn’t want to do anything is angry you know volatile all of that like it that’s not very comfortable for her and I I think you know I did double am maritan
And last year so 2022 and um Charlotte turned around to me after that and she goes you going to do another one and I was kind of going like well how do I answer this like a lot of time involved with am maritan and before I answer he
Goes you should do it because you’re a better person when when you exercise and that’s the blessing we started the podcast and we talked about who you see yourself as versus how the world see you and I think it’s actually a nice place to finish it because with how vulnerable
You’ve been on the podcast and your struggles coming out and talking about these in Securities you may be interpreted yourself as I’m weaker for telling these stories but how the world actually seen and how I actually see after this podcast it’s actually a stronger version of you so David thank
You very much no problem thanks for having me on so blast yeah it’s good good chat enjoyed it everybody thanks for tuning in to today’s interview if you like this interview I’m going to put another interview up here which I know you’re really going to enjoy and please
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6 Comments
If you enjoyed this, its worth checking out my chat with Irish marathon runner Mick Clohisey about the mindset required to run a 2:13 marathon https://youtu.be/bb5XY5kdvxM
Start with a bang!…..
What an interview!
Just goes to show. Doesn’t matter who you are everybody is just trying to figure it out.
Up to this, your LeMond interview was my favourite, but this one trumps it for sure. Your questions, and David's honesty; just blew me away. Maybe it's because I can relate to this story. What an interview. Thank you Anthony and thank you David.
I’d completely forgotten about this guy and how good he was, super strong..
This is so good. David thank you for answering with such candor. What a fantastic podcast!