I’m Christina Martin, the host of A Chat with Heart Podcast.
This podcast will strive to get to the heart of the matter, whatever the matter is, with people I admire and am curious about. When shared with compassion and the best intentions, our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.
Support the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ChristinaMartin
For more information about the podcast and my music please website: http://www.christinamartin.net
Contents of this video:
00:00 – Greetings from Christina
00:48 – Theme Song – Talk About It
01:08 – Introduction by Christina
10:49 – The Passing of the Buffalo by Buckskin
14:29 – Grand Falls Connection
16:16 – Meeting Andrew
20:19 – Big Pink
27:18 – Creating time and space to make something from nothing
40:56 – Mom, Dad, and freezer jam
44:56 – Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha
49:12 – Adrift
1:03:04 – Heartbeat Hotline 1(902)-669-4769
1:03:37 – Podcast Credits
1:04:07 – Support the Podcast on Patreon
Christina: Welcome to a Chat with Heart. I’m your host, Christina Martin. I’m a singer songwriter. I live on a dirt road with my best friend Dale in rural Nova Scotia, Canada. I chat with her is just me having chill conversations with people I want to celebrate, and topics that I’m curious about.
If you have a question or a comment for this podcast, call my heartbeat hotline 19026694769. To send this podcast even more love, visit me online at Patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. I’m so happy you’re listening. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.
Podcast Theme Song ‘Talk About It’: If we just talk about it, we could shine a light, we could break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut a way, we can make a brighter day. Christina: Oh my goodness, where do I begin? It’s been a while.
Yeah. And I’ve wondered how you’re all doing, and, uh. You know, this is season three of A chat with Hart. This is, uh, episode one, season three, and I’m. It’s been a couple of weeks now. I’ve. I’ve returned from three months of touring, uh, overseas in, uh, Central Europe.
So we started in Austria and then did a lot of shows in Germany, went over to the Netherlands and then down to Switzerland and ended, uh, ended the tour with some more Germany shows. There was a total of 36 shows and three months promoting my new album, storm, that came out September
1st. And, um, uh, it’s really hard to describe how, you know, like, how’s it going? How has it been like it’s it’s been everything. It’s been hard. It’s been rewarding. Um, it’s been great to reconnect with friends. We haven’t seen in since before the pandemic. Um, you know, like before 2020.
And it’s been great to be, uh, working. Feel like a real working musician again on tour, earning a living playing our songs and making those, you know, connections in that, like, face to face in person way. Um, there’s a lot I really missed about it.
And then also being kind of out of that game for a while, I, I will admit, I felt, um, as, as in, as much as I take care of myself, um, I felt like it was hard on my head and my body and,
Uh, I don’t know, you know what everyone thinks touring is like? Um, I think it sounds glamorous and exciting, and certainly there are parts of it, there are moments where you know it. It feels, like I said before, rewarding. And you get to see places and, and, um, be in places and meet
People and do things that you just don’t normally get to do, because, you know, a lot of the time, even I’m sitting at home in front of my computer screen working on the next thing. Um, and, uh, that takes a lot of time.
There’s a big part of choosing to at least do what I do, um, involves a lot of, like, accepting that it’s not all. It’s just not all fun. There’s going to be painful moments, and it’s going to be hard on my head and that I have a lot to work on, you know?
But I never do it alone. I mean, I have always people around me, um, I’ve been, uh, you know, actually consciously deciding to, um, choose to touch base and, you know, have mentors along the way and I’ve actually been this entire the entire tour, and I started this
Summer. I, um, I don’t know if I mentioned this on the podcast at the end of season two or not. Probably not. Um, but I started taking vocal lessons, and I’ve this is the first time I’ve really done this, uh, steadily, uh, with an incredible, uh, musician and producer and creator and human,
Uh, named Emm Gryner. I was reading her book. I hope you know what, I haven’t even asked her formally yet, so I don’t want to jinx it, but I, I do want to ask if she’ll be a guest on the podcast. Um, I’m hoping she’ll say yes. And, uh. Um. Yeah.
No pressure. Emm but, um, the other thing I, I, uh, was able to do with Emm throughout the tour, which really helped me, um, was work with Emm, she’s been career coaching basically. Yeah. Throughout that three months that I was on tour. And I really found that helpful to have that support.
Um, because, you know, during the tour, uh, it’s it’s like you’re you want to be present and, and in the moment, which is the most enjoyable thing to be. But I do find myself having to plan ahead and think about the future. And that can be I get, you know, quite, um, stressed
Out about all that. I guess this all is on the topic of, like, learning how to ask for help, uh, ongoing. You know, you’d think, oh, you get to a certain age or point in your career or your life, your business that you don’t need help anymore, and that’s just bullshit.
So shout out to Emm Gryner. I look forward to, uh, well, she’s. I just signed up for taking piano lessons. Um, so there’s that. But I hope we get to work together in, uh, more in the future. And, uh, you’ve been a great inspiration and support all that to say, folks.
I’m back home and it feels a-fucking-mazing to be home. I love, I love our home, I love what Dale and I have, um, have worked hard to continue to work hard to kind of build and maintain. And I just love coming home to a routine and a
Quiet place, and we’ve done a few hikes in the woods. It’s been lovely, and reconnecting with friends and family has been great, and the holiday seasons are coming up, and I thought it would take me longer, but I couldn’t wait. I was really looking forward to starting this podcast up again.
So here I am. And, uh, I want to I want to talk about my my guest for season three, episode one. Okay, so this is an old friend of mine, and I just love him dearly. He’s he’s a talented, uh, well, he’s a talented many things. Um, I’m going to go through.
I’m just going to go through, like, a bullet, bullet list here. Um, that I pulled from his bio. Andrew Sisk, uh, dear old friend of mine, uh, from New Brunswick, as I am as well. We both grew up in the province of New Brunswick.
That’s, uh, in the Atlantic Canada for our overseas, um, Out of Canada listeners. Um, Andrew has written and performed in several touring bands in Canada. I’m going to name some here: Share, Sleepless Nights, Jenn Grant, Coco et co. Uh, he independently has released 14 albums, some of
Which you can find on his Bandcamp. I want to I want to share a story because I covered one of Andrew’s songs. It’s called Subject to Change. Um, it’s on my 2010 album I Can Too, and Blue Rodeo’s Greg Keelor came into the studio when we were recording, and he
Sang on that track with me, and he played baritone guitar, and that was a really fun, uh, experience in the studio. Uh, for me, um, I had, uh, been chatting with Dale about how great it would be if Greg would perform on this song of
Andrew’s, and Dale and I were invited to, uh, a private acoustic show with, um, Greg Keelor and Jim Cuddy at a venue called The Carlton in Halifax, Nova Scotia. And so we were backstage with, uh, Greg, um, after the show, and Greg was asking me. He’s such a nice guy.
Um, he. Dale Dale’s toured with Blue Rodeo, opening up, uh, with Cuff the Duke in that band, and and, uh, was friends with Greg. And so that’s how I was introduced to Greg. And he was just really just super down to earth and nice, very kind to me and easy to talk to.
And so we were backstage chatting and Greg was asking me, you know, what’s up, what’s going on? And I said, well, I’m actually recording, um, an album right, right now with Dale at his home studio in Dartmouth. And Greg immediately. I didn’t even have to ask.
He just said, I’d love to play on it. Yeah, I want to play on it. And I was very quick to say, well, actually, there’s a song that we have in mind that you’d be perfect for. And, uh, I went on to tell him a little bit about the song, and
He was like, yeah, sure, when do you want me in? And so he literally came in the next day and just banged out the part. So check out the song Subject to Change. Um. Yeah, that’s an Andrew Sisk song. So thanks, Andrew.
Um, Andrew’s now scoring music for film and and he loves it. And he has a new album out. It’s his most ambitious work as a composer, songwriter and arranger. It’s called Adrift. And I got to sing on it, which I love singing on Andrew’s
Songs. Andrew describes this, this album as, uh, a poetic musical experience through the journey of healing from trauma. Hey, this is right up my alley. I hope you enjoy my chat with heart with my dear friend Andrew Sisk. Andrew: All right. I’ll use my radio voice. Christina: Yeah, I love it.
Um, Andrew, I’m so excited that you’re here. Welcome to. Oh my God, welcome to a chat with heart. I thought I wasn’t going to start this up again for like maybe a year. And then as soon as I got home and I thought of you and I was
Like, no, I really I want to chat with heart with Andrew. Andrew: I’m delighted. I’m so grateful, I miss you. I haven’t spoken to you in too long. Christina: I miss you too, buddy. There’s a buffalo right behind you on the wall. Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Christina: Where’s that from?
Andrew: Like a used clothing store. That’s, you know, like a, like a they call it a frippery here. It’s like, you know, a Salvation Army kind of place. Christina: Yeah. You went to get clothes and you got it. Andrew: That’s right. I went in to get see if I could get a collared
Shirt or something. And I saw it and I was like, that speaks to me. So I got it. Christina: And why does it speak to you? Andrew: Well, uh, years ago, I did a project called The Passing of the Buffalo by Buckskin, which was based on this book that had
Been published in 1916. And I found it when I was on tour playing in bands, and it was like an old play that had been published. And when I researched it, there was like nothing. There was nothing to be found about it. And, uh, the more I dug, the more curious I got.
And it was a really beautiful is the thing. It’s like it’s a play about how, uh, the North American buffalo became extinct. Um, and it was written in 19 or published in 1916. And, uh, so it was, um. I’m going to sneeze. I’m so sorry. Christina: No, you can now like there’s.
We don’t we don’t care about Covid. Andrew: Uh. Christina: So, uh, go ahead. People won’t stop listening because you start sneezing. Andrew: So anyway, uh, the passing of the buffalo by buckskin was this book I’d found. And, um, I just decided to do something with it,
You know? And I applied for funding, but I didn’t get any funding, so I just kind of, like, made something that I could make on my own, which was like, I got together with my friend Pete Hall, who plays guitar and lap steel, and, um,
We kind of like, I crafted these, uh, with a four track, an old cassette, four track. I recorded myself reading excerpts from this play, and then I wrote little parts, and, um, and then Pete and I flushed them out, and then we recorded it at
The House of miracles, um, studio and, um, live with interacting with the dialogue. And it was a really cool experience. And it’s like this ten minute long, like, sound art piece, but, um, so it’s something I’m really proud of and ever since then, whenever I
See Buffalo’s, like, I have a little buffalo pin on my, my denim jacket and I, you know, anytime I come across Buffalo’s I feel, uh, an affinity for them. Christina: I love it. I’m going to revisit it because you sent it to me.
You sent that piece to me a long time ago, and I listened. And, uh, I think I need to get back to it, but is there a place that that people can check it out? Is it on your Bandcamp? Andrew: Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s on Bandcamp. It’s on Spotify. It’s on. Uh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it, uh, it for some reason it got put like people really resonated with it in, like, uh, the Scandinavian part of the world. And so it was like on a lot of playlists up there for some reason. Christina: Do you want to include an address so that listeners can
Send you Buffalo paraphernalia? Um, whenever. Because now that I know this, you know, I’m going to have my eye out for you to send you a hoof… That’s creepy, isn’t it? Andrew: Yeah. Is it. A hoof would be creepy. Yes. Uh, I’m a minimalist, so no need. No need for for gifts.
Christina: Uh, let’s talk about our Grand Falls connection, because I. I know our croths, our croths must have pasthed. Um, back when I was living in Grand Falls, New Brunswick, that’s one of the places I grew up, but I don’t remember you, and so I. Andrew: I really didn’t spend much time there.
I really didn’t, uh, we would maybe visit briefly. Uh, we had family there. Um, but, you know, so I didn’t know it that well until I think I was the summer I was 18, I, I worked for my uncle for a month there, washing cars and stuff, and, um, and, uh, that’s the
Only time I ever spent in Grand Falls. I’m pretty sure you weren’t there because I was hanging out with your friends. Christina: You know what? Yeah, because I was at deep River Science Academy learning how to cleanse the groundwater from toxic waste to save lives. So you were cleaning cars?
I was trying to clean the water that you were using on cleaning the cars, and. Yeah, um, but, yeah, uh, I remember some friends had some crushes on you. I remember them talking about you, but I don’t. I think I may have met you very briefly. Um, I’m not going to name names.
I saw the excitement in your face when I mentioned the crushes. Um, well, I’m sure they all had crushes, but maybe I’ll get them to call the heartbeat hotline and, uh, leave an anonymous message, or then you still wouldn’t know, but you would at least get the proof that.
Okay. And then you had a close, uh, connection with, uh, one of my best friends growing up, Molly Nugent. And, um, that was from the Rotary Camp that you both worked at. Then you and I. I still think we met on a bus. Is that accurate? Andrew: No, I don’t think so.
I think we met at, uh, the Ecology Action Center fundraiser. Oh, that’s what I think. Yeah. Uh, and then that’s why when I saw you on the bus, that’s why I was like, here, here’s a demo or a recording of my first album, and I’m doing the show.
I think that’s how it worked. But you probably didn’t remember me before, and you were like. You were like, some guy gave me a CD. Christina: But. Right. And was it on the bus? You asked if I wanted to participate in this show? I think so, yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And that’s when I that that began my love for your music. And you, um, plutonicly. Andrew: Lucky me. Christina: Lucky me, lucky me too. Um. Andrew: I was so lucky. You know, it harkens back to not harkens. What’s that word even mean? Um.
Christina: Is that a sound that a specific kind of bird makes? I think it is a Hark! The herald angels sing. Or angels? Angels make that, angels Hark. Andrew: Yeah. Christina: Go ahead. Andrew: Well, either way, uh, it shows what a different time it was that, um.
My plan was to get people to play my release show, and I just walked around with a bag of my of burnt CDs, handing, running, running into people because I knew I would run into everyone. You know what I mean? Christina: Yeah, well, you ran into me on a bus.
Yeah, I mean, like that. I can’t remember the last time I took a bus, but, uh, I guess that might have been it, actually. Yeah. Do you think. I think you could still, I think. You could still do stuff like that.
I used to do stuff like that too, just kind of like go out there. And just the other day I was thinking, like, I really want to get rid of a bunch of CDs that are just taking up space. And, um, I feel like they’re better off in people’s
Hands. If it weren’t for the fact that a lot of people no longer have a CD player, including myself. And then the thought came up, no, you know, I’m going to creep people out if I just walk around, like handing people or ring their doorbell and give them a free CD, like that’s
Going to be creeping back back then. I mean, I think it was exciting and fun and we didn’t care. But yeah, I think we could just do stuff like that still today, don’t you? We should. Andrew: Maybe. I just think that people go out less, uh, it’s just, you
Know, like the idea that you live in a small enough community. And the music community in Halifax at that time, in the early 2000 was small enough that you could be like, well, I know where that person’s work works, and I’ll just go drop off where I’ll go see them at their workplace.
They work at the cafe, and someone works at the art supply store, and someone’s a student at mascot Art College. So I’ll go in there and I’ll find them painting, you know? And that’s literally what it was like. It was an adventure.
Christina: And now everybody works at home and nobody wants to be disturbed. And don’t you dare call somebody, like, randomly. Andrew: You have to text before you call. Christina: You have to text. Andrew: That’s where we’re at. Christina: I know I don’t I’m trying to stop doing that.
I’m trying just to. With friends with close friends with, you know, business stuff. Oh, maybe set an appointment. But, uh, I like the cold calls sometimes. Andrew: Yeah. No. Me too. I don’t mind them. I’m just. It seems to be, uh, the way now.
Christina: Yeah, I don’t I don’t ever expect anybody to answer. In fact, I expect them to listen to their voicemail, which I know a lot of people don’t even do that. Um, but I what I do kind of resent is the idea that if you
Call somebody, I don’t want people to feel they have to call me right back. Like, yeah, you know, it should be. I think the phone I still believe the phone is there for the person who has the phone for their convenience. Yeah. Um, and I mean.
I just don’t. I don’t think we should expect people to like, like with text messaging, even respond within, uh, eight hours. But that’s just me. Andrew: No. It’s true. Some people will be like, why are you texting me? And you’re like, you can answer whenever you want. There’s no rush. Yeah.
Christina: I was wondering if you could on I just want to go back to, like, uh, we’re friends. Right. Andrew: We’re definitely friends. Christina: And I know you have a lot of really good friends. And there’s a story that I would love for you to share. I’m just going to say two words.
And then if you feel like sharing the story of this adventure I don’t know. Do you know what I’m about to say? Andrew: No idea what you’re about. No idea. Christina: I’d love for you to talk about it, because it’s just a great representation of close friendships. Okay, ready? Big Pink.
Andrew: Okay. Yeah. So, um. Christina: Now he’s, you’re smiling. Listeners can’t see this. Yeah, but you’re smiling. But your reaction was like. So blasé. Andrew: No not blasé. Christina: Yeah. Okay. All right. Andrew: I’m just chill. Christina: Oh. That old oh, that old tale. Andrew: No, I’m just chill, that’s all.
I’m just a chill guy. Um, I, um, well, I have just, like, delightful, incredible friends, uh, in large numbers. And, um, I have this one, uh, little cluster of buddies. Uh, that is just two guys who, uh, they both live in Nova Scotia now, but at one point, we were spread out more.
Um, we were all three in different places, but, um, we met in Halifax when I was, like, playing in bands, uh, a lot, and, um, and I was playing. You were also playing in that band with us? Christina: Uh, yeah. Andrew: It was Prospectors Union, um, which was like a, you know, like
An alt country band. And the songwriter singer was Matt Charlton, and, um, and I had met him when I was touring with another band, and he, he had started a publicity company and, um, and so I had, he had helped me with, like, uh, press
Releases and campaigns for the first few albums I made and, uh, me too. Christina: Me too. Yeah. He’s so great. Andrew: Yeah, he just is. Christina: He still is. He’s great. Andrew: Yeah, he’s. Yeah, he’s just like, an incredible person. And, uh. And I was just couldn’t believe that he wanted
To be my friend, you know? And, uh. Christina: That’s so sweet because he’s a. Andrew: He’s a cool, amazing dude. And, uh, and then. And that’s true. And then he was good friends with Jason MacIsaac. And lots of my friends, uh, were friends with Jason MacIsaac, who is a composer, uh, songwriter, had
Been in a band called The Heavy Blinkers that were like, you know, extremely, uh, lauded and praised and, um, and accomplished and, uh, I didn’t really know Jason very well. Um, and so, but they were saying how they were starting to
Jog in the morning around the Commons, and I had just moved in to an apartment really close to there. And, uh, and I was like, oh, yeah, I used to jog all the time. Anyway, so we started jogging at like 7 a.m. together. Christina: Jog together. That’s so great.
Andrew: It didn’t, and it didn’t last long. But we did it for a while, and then we just started going out for breakfast and lunch together all the time. And we just became fast friends. And it was just so much fun because I was learning so much
From them. I was learning so much about music and the music industry and about all sorts of stuff I had no idea about. And. This became an incredible close friends, uh, with a shared sense of humor and interests and stuff. And, uh, so for like years, maybe decades at this point,
We’ve had, like, a text chain that we’ve maintained. We text all the time, like, I don’t feel a need for social media because I have this text chain where, you know, where, uh, I get all the feedback or giggles I want. And, um, and so it, uh, we became this really close friend
Group and one year, maybe six years ago or so, um, one of the shared interests and loves is the band of, you know, Rick Danko and Robbie Robertson, Garth Hudson and Levon Helm. And, uh, who did I miss? Uh, Richard Manuel. And so, um, they were Bob Dylan’s backing band.
Uh, you know, they’re, you know, one of the most legendary classic rock bands. And, um, grew up loving them. Obsessed. You know, I’ve read so many biographies about them and all that stuff, and we would often talk about them. And, um, it was one spring where Matt, uh, reached out to
Us about going to a friend’s cottage in New York State, is what he said. And so I thought I was going to meet them out because I live in Montreal. I thought I was going to meet them, and we were going to go to this friend’s cottage.
And I, I’m pretty sure in the preamble, like I was clueless. I was like, you know, that where we’re going is pretty close to Big Pink, is what I remember saying. Oh yeah, maybe we can go see it, you know, um, and, uh, Big
Pink is the house that the band had lived in. Uh, and Bob Dylan lived nearby and they had made recordings in the basement is this legendary place. And and unbeknownst to me, uh, it had been turned into, like, an Airbnb, and, uh, Matt had secretly booked it.
Jason, I think, knew what was going on. At some point I was clueless. And um, anyway, so we met up and, uh, and we were in two different cars. I was in my car and they were in theirs. Uh, and I remember we just drove up and we were driving
Down this road, and I remember thinking like, oh, man, this looks like because I had seen a documentary about it. And, um, I was like, it looks like we’re in that zone. Like, imagine if we could go find Big Pink. Imagine that. Yeah.
And, um, and we pulled up to the house and I was just like, this looks exactly like Big Pink. Christina: But you weren’t, were you did. Were you like, this is it? You were. Yeah. Andrew: I was in total shock. I rolled down my window because I didn’t understand what was happening.
Matt said we had to stop somewhere before we were going to the cottage. And then Matt started talking to the guy who came out of the house, and I was just like, what is happening right now? And I got out of the car and I was like, what’s going
On? And he was like, do you know where we are? And I was like, Big Pink! And I was in total shock and I just spent like hours in shock. And then I would like telling I was telling the owners, like every nuanced detail of the history that I’d ever learned.
It was embarrassing. But, uh, I nerd it out so hard. And we stayed there for two days and it was so much fun. I love like, yeah. Christina: Have you guys gotten in any big fights since that experience? And would this would the big would the Big Pink experience
Just override any fight that you might have with, uh, Jason and and Matt? Andrew: No, I would never I would do anything for them. They’re, uh. They’re the best. They’ve saved my life so many times. They’re so. They’re so incredible. They’re both incredible men and, uh, great people, great humans. And, uh.
Yeah, I love them so much. Christina: Yeah, I love them, too. Andrew: They’ve enriched my life and enriched my artistic experience and my human experience. Uh, enormously. I have grown so much because of both of them. Christina: Do you think they’ll listen to this? Andrew: I certainly hope so.
If they’re as good as friends as I say they are. Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to I want to touch on, um. Because you’re somebody who I’ve always, um, really admired because of. I know, I know how much it takes to, uh, what goes
Into, you know, writing a song, recording it, releasing it, um, just, you know, kind of managing that all. And, uh, I know for myself, I really when I have other things going on in my life, like work or, you know, stress and all
That. It’s just I find it really hard to to do the, the art. So, um, here’s somebody who’s managed an enormous amount of responsibilities in your work, your family, you know, personal life, and and you have committed. You’ve just committed to, you know, continue making art on a
Regular basis and you have this, um, curiosity, as you mentioned earlier. Um, and you, you listen to that and you kind of let it lead you and the work you do. Is it really artistic merit comes to mind. Like whenever I think of the work that you’re doing, what do
You think it is that keeps you making art? And I’m just curious about what you think keeps you going. And what are some helpful tips? Andrew: No, I think that that’s part of, um, the human condition for people who, who feel the desire to create, uh, or they just feel
Like there’s something missing in their life. I think usually that thing that is missing is a creative element, because I think that. Like for me. I grew up in a very small village, and I didn’t have anything in common with the people I was growing up with.
I felt, and, um, like, I didn’t play hockey. I didn’t do those things. Uh, and I was a kid who was lived in his imaginative world and, and I knew I liked creating things, and I, I dreamt of being a painter, but whenever I painted, I found it so unfulfilling.
Um, and I, you know, my skill wasn’t where I wanted it to be. And, um. And so when I was like 13, I started playing guitar. And it was one of those things that, you know, and my dad. Uh, played guitar and he every Sunday he would like go upstairs
And like play Gordon Lightfoot and Neil Young and Bob Dylan songs and that kind of thing. And, um, and he’d even written a couple songs, you know, when he was younger and, uh, and so that was kind of a template that was there for me.
And, um, I ended up taking some guitar lessons, and I, like, quickly surpassed him in guitar ability. And he was shocked. And I was shocked. Yeah. Um, yeah. And, uh, you know, that’s the beauty of a young, uh, plastic mind, you know, you can learn so quickly and and also, I had
So much free time. I was like a pre-teen, you know, essentially. Um, you have so much time. I would just go home from school and play, be in my room playing guitar for hours and hours, and, uh, and I just quickly started writing songs.
And I had been like, you know, secretly writing poetry before that. Um. And it just became really naturally, to be honest, like it was one of those things where I just knew that you could put words onto music and you could just like make up melodies, and
I just knew you could do that. And so I started doing it, and I did it right away. And there was I was bad. It was not good. But, uh, but I loved it. Like the the sense of catharsis that I felt after I wrote a
Song. I would feel like a natural endorphin high for 24 to 48 hours. I was like, high on life. And I felt like I had, uh, a sense of accomplishment that I don’t really feel when I do anything else. And, um, and that has just stayed with me, um, as because
You really are creating something from nothing. And that is, um, and when you’re in that space, that flow state that people talk about, you do feel like you’re communing with something like out of body, something, uh, deeper than the mundane world.
Christina: Yeah. You know how I know that, too, is because sometimes I I’ll if I’m listening to a song that I’ve written or recorded and I’m just my thought in the moment is, how the fuck did I do that? Like, yeah, I couldn’t, I couldn’t have written that
Today. I’m not in the zone, of course, but that’s why I, I feel I agree with that, that it’s. Yeah. Um, it’s like a. Unworldly experience at times. Not always, but at times it is. Sometimes it. Yeah. Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Sometimes it’s like accounting, you know, um,
Or editing. You’re like editing an essay or something. Yeah. I was writing songs for maybe ten years before I started showing anyone. Wow. And, um, and then. And I was definitely. It was definitely like, maybe 12 or 14 years before I dared record something.
Mhm. Uh, and, uh, you know, because I valued music so highly and I had so much respect for recording artists and recordings. Like I’m still like live music is an amazing experience. But for me, I love the art form of recorded music. I just love what you can do with recorded music.
Um, and I love cherishing specific recordings. Um, and that’s just, it took me a long time to realize, like, that is an art form. Yeah. And that you can pursue it as an art form and perceive it as an art form, and that it’s not just like I’m trying to
Make, like long ago, I let go of any kind of, um, desire to, like, make something that has any kind of like, um. Uh, designed outcome, and is very much an internal journey of exploring words and sounds that, uh. Achieve what I that resonates with me because it ends up being
This mirror for your own conscious experience. And I don’t know if you’ve ever had that experience, especially with writing lyrics where you’ve written a song. Um, and maybe you’ve, like, improvised over the chords with a melody and you’ve improvised words, and then you go back and
You find some keywords, and then you, like, reverse engineer a song. I do that a lot. And when I do, I often find that what ends up coming out is something I didn’t know I was feeling that had been like a suppressed thought or emotion.
And, um, and so it becomes this weird, like essential process in my life. And that was like in my 20s that I realized that. And, you know, when I became a father and I was, uh, I had been playing in bands and I just knew that it wasn’t sustainable
For me to, like, live the lifestyle that I think the industry expected of me. And I knew I was unhappy as a touring musician. I was unhappy as, uh, running, you know, an entrepreneurial band venture. Um, I knew it wasn’t what I wanted to do.
I knew I had other skills and talents, and, um, but I still wanted to keep this sacred act of songwriting in my life. And I just realized that, like, um, I could still do that, and I can do other things for money and make a living and and have a
Lifestyle that I feel is healthier for me, uh, mentally and spiritually and emotionally and physically. And, um, and that was me. And I know that I have limitations that other people don’t. And, um, and so I just once I committed to that because at first I thought, I’m just gonna quit.
I’m just gonna quit music and I’ll start writing novels, you know? And I started trying to write, and, uh, it’s so unfulfilling for me. Christina: Yeah. Well, the I love, I love that I love all you all you just said, um, so.
Andrew: But you had sorry. You had asked, like, advice for other people. And I just think that, like, the things that we hear, the cliches that we hear about, like not giving up and, and and like staying curious. Yeah. And um, that, you know, and like the idea of, like, uh,
Having a space and a place in your, in your home or, or studio, whatever it is. But having that space set up so that you can sit down and create when you, when you do have the time or energy, like all of that stuff is essential.
Like there’s it’s a it’s not a simple answer. It’s a, it’s a complicated path. But um, and I think that like anything can be that it can be cooking, it can be gardening, it can be anything knitting. Christina: Knitting. Andrew: Only those three things. Those three things. Christina: Okay. All right.
So basically I mean yeah, I think we’re all each different. Like there are things about your what you’ve talked about that resonate 100%. Well, most of it does resonates with me. Um, and I know routine is important, but my routine changes constantly. But there is always, at least in my mind,
I got to have a routine, even though, you know, maybe the exercise happens at the end of the day for six months, and then I switch it to the beginning of the day because it’s no longer working for me. Or, um, um, but I love what you said about just,
Um, when you make a space, when you dedicate, like, carve out a space in where you live or a place that you go to during the day. I remember when I was younger, living in Austin, Texas, and I worked at a middle school, and they had rehearsal rooms for the music department.
And so for my hour lunch break, I would go and have my lunch alone and then practice my songs in just in a tiny room by myself. Um, and that became my routine at that time, you know, and, uh, or I would just write in that hour in solitude kind of
Thing. Um, but just I think one of the. One of the things that commonly I’ve said to myself and I know other people say is I don’t have time. People want to. They say, I don’t have time, and I know that. You just have to make the time like you just.
Yeah. That’s true. You know, you’re. I think sometimes I like that cliche, you know, you want something done, you give it to a busy person. I think some, you know, um, there’s always somebody busier than me that’s that’s somehow able to manifest far
More. Um, you know, than I, than I and at certain times of my life and I and I think, well, okay, I just need to be honest. Like, what’s the real truth of my day, am I, am I scrolling on social media for an hour, spread out across the
Day? Well, what could I do with that hour instead? And then work towards changing those habits? You know? Um, but, uh. Andrew: I think that’s very true. I think that, like, we in the modern world, we have so many temptations and habits that we
Just think that like our, um, normal or, you know, that we’re expected of us or and that we need them. And I just know that, like, when I was in my 20s and I was writing all the time, I just didn’t watch TV, like I hardly ever watched anything.
And, um, same, you know, and TV is a real it’s a real like, life suck, you know what I mean? Christina: I’m working on that now, actually stopping streaming shows that like making it a treat again, to watch a movie on a Friday night, like I love shows.
But for years after reading the the book flow and I was a teenager, I remember like, being like, I’m not watching television. I’ll watch movies occasionally, or if I’m babysitting at night, I’ll watch, uh, you know, reruns of Oprah and Ellen DeGeneres or something fun. But, um, but yeah, it’s, uh.
And that really gave me so much more time than a lot of people had, to do things outside of my day jobs, you know? Andrew: Yeah, I think creative work is always, creative. work is always time spent with yourself. And if you’re always distracted by other things, then, uh, you
Have to, like, reintroduce yourself to yourself, like reacquaint yourself with what’s going on. And it’s in that space that you can create and and you can create without being in that space. But when you do create in that space, you feel the benefit of it.
There’s an energy that you’re transitioning into this art form, whether it be cooking or whatever. Yeah. And um, and I think that, uh, that’s, I think the modern condition is like our smartphones, which are so sinisterly designed to, uh. Christina: To rape us of our life? Andrew: Well, no, just, like, harsh.
But but they are they are designed to hijack our natural, like, bio, uh, rhythms and and our hormonal cycles and the dopamine and all of the things that that kind of drive our behavior. It kind of hijacks that, and it makes it so addictive. And everyone struggles with that.
I struggle with that. Everyone I think is struggling with that. And, um, and you have to, like, intentionally take time away and turn it off and um, and make space and time for it. And I think that anyone who wants to be more creative, they
Have to realize, like, it’s a momentum thing where you have to to push that boulder at the very start. You have to, like, make yourself sit down with the journal and the pen in your hand or at the typewriter or whatever it is you want to do.
You have to, like, force yourself to do that first step, because with momentum is everything in life I feel like. Christina: Yeah. I want to go back to. You said that your dad had written some songs. Did do you have a recording or written material from from that,
And have you ever done anything with it or thought of? I say this because my dad, um, I think my dad would have liked to have, you know, been an artist. Um, and he had written some poems when he was younger. I have, I have them typed up.
Um, and the other thing I have of his is, um, cassette tape recordings of his voice, uh, that he used to mail me when, when I was a teenager. That’s how we corresponded, and I was. Oh, not. I’ve thought sometimes it might be interesting to spend
Some time with those and, you know, just see what comes up. But what about you for your dad and his letter or his songs? Andrew: Yeah, we have a lot of, um, recordings. And, you know, when he was dying, um, of cancer, he, uh, I
Went back and, uh, and we recorded two new songs he had written. He had written this political song, you know, against Trump, you know. Christina: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Andrew: Yeah. He was just, you know, he was so pure, uh, in that way. He was like a child in some ways.
He was so innocent and, uh, idealistic and, um. Yeah, he was a good man. And, um, but, yeah, I haven’t done anything with them. Um, you know, I, I think that that day will come, I’m sure. Um, but, yeah.
Christina: I think you have, uh, I don’t think of you as a child, but I think you. I think you still maintain that child, childlike curiosity and energy. I mean, whenever I’m around you, like, I feel like I can be myself in that way and just be free.
Like, in the way you move your body, um, and aren’t afraid to dance around and be goofball because, you know, I, I love being around people like that because I think, I wish I could be that way more often. And I and oftentimes I maybe I still stifle myself or something
Around people, but I love that about you. And maybe that’s something that you inherited from your dad. I don’t know, or maybe it’s just your own. Andrew: Yeah. My dad was so serious and formal. Oh, really? Um, yeah. So most of the time. But when he would get silly, he would get
Really goofy and silly. And he. And he loved entertaining children. Like, he thought it was. So like he loved making kids laugh. And I definitely inherited all those qualities. Christina: Yeah. What do you think you, do you think you inherited anything from your mom? Andrew: Oh, yeah. Christina: Well, obviously you did, but.
Your mom has a great beard. Andrew: Yeah, yeah. No, but, um. Yeah. Like, I just, uh. I was just visiting her this past summer, and a photographer friend was with me. Uh, Scott. Scott. Oh, yeah. Who’s a film director? Uh, documentary documentarian, film director and photographer.
Scott munn yeah. Anyway, he he just impromptu, uh, I was standing beside my mom. He said, let me get a picture of you guys. And he took a couple of pictures, and, uh, I should send them to you. But, yeah, it’s, uh, you know, growing up,
I. People always told me I looked like my mom, but, like, in these two pictures were smiling the same. Even though no one told us how to smile, where our heads are tilted and we’re both smiling the exact same way. Christina: Oh. That’s that’s adorable.
Do you make the same freezer jam as your mom? Andrew: Oh, I wish no. Not yet. I’ve never tried that. I need to try that. Christina: Your mom’s got some great freezer jam. Andrew: Oh my God, yeah, it was crazy. It was my dad’s mom taught her how to make that, and.
Oh, so that’s great. Oh, yeah. It’s it is amazing. That’s the nectar of the gods. That stuff. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t eat a lot of jam, but I devoured your mama’s jam. That’s what we’re gonna call this episode. Your mama’s jam. Andrew: Yo mama’s jam.
Christina: I have a number of books that I’ve noticed over, I’d say the last 20 years or so. I’ve always had. And I, you know, I’ve maybe gifted some to people, and they’re just always in my bookshelf. I go back to them, I’ll reread them.
It’s as if sometimes I’ve my brain is completely wiped them out and it’s starting fresh and I haven’t learned anything. Is there a book? Um. That’s that’s, uh, always sort of been in your. In your toolkit. I guess that you keep going back to it can be recent, but
Maybe there’s an older one, like the Bible just. Andrew: Well, in all seriousness, uh, when I was in, you know, 17, I started university and way too young. Yeah. To, like, comprehend a lot of what you’re learning at that time. But we read Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Christina: Okay wow.
Andrew: Um, and I had read I read it at the time, and I remember, uh, being impacted by it in one way, and then, uh, maybe like 4 or 5 years later, I traveled on an exchange program to Sri Lanka, and I brought a copy with me, and I read it again,
And I got totally different, you know, uh, inspiration and insight that then and then at some point, um, after, I think probably in my late 20s or early 30s, I read it again and it was the same experience of being like, whoa, this book is, I perceive everything that’s happening totally differently.
And, and. Um, for some reason, it stays with me. I’ve been working on for over ten years this idea that it’s essentially like not a musical, it’s not a musical, but it’s, uh, like an album. But the idea is that it would contain dialogue. Um, Christina: It’s a musical.
Andrew: But it’s a musical. Christina: It’s a musical. So you say it. And people, love most people love musicals. Yes, they made fun of. But I think underneath most people. Andrew: It’s not a musical. I mean, it’s on a stage. There is dance choreography.
Christina: I think it’s a musical, checks a lot of boxes. Andrew: A big choruses, a lot of costumes. Christina: All right. Is there glitter? Andrew: No. But I have been like trying. I have this this idea and I don’t know about you, but like,
I’ll just get ideas that nag at me that they won’t go away. And this has been one. And I’ve written there’s like 5 or 6 songs I’ve written for this thing and I’ve just it’s the other parts of it that just seem so daunting that when I, I
Have like, you know, outlines and like ideas written down and I’m constantly changing and working how the narrative will work. And yeah, but it’s been going on forever and it’s kind of, um, and now that I think about it, it’s about it’s inspired by the the life of the Buddha.
Okay. Um, but, um, but I so that book Siddhartha, I think has it’s something that like, it’s still on my bookshelf and, um. Christina: Uh, you keep going back to it. Andrew: And. Yeah, it’s, it’s the one thing that is like, of all of
The books I’ve read, it’s the one that keeps coming back. Christina: Okay. Thank you for answering my question. And, um, my next question is, is there a small role for me, uh, in this musical? And I don’t mean behind the scenes. I mean, I want to be. Andrew: One of the main characters.
Christina: I don’t know, like delivering a loaf of bread to somebody or, um. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, are there female characters? Andrew: Yeah. Yes. It’s not Lord of the rings. It’s not Lord of the rings where there’s no female characters. Um. Uh, no.
Yeah. No. Uh, I am toying with the idea of, like, making it like, an art sound art series of some kind that contains songs within it, but it is, uh, like a narrative podcast kind of thing. Audiobook, I don’t know. So yes, I will. I’ll need you to work for free.
Christina: Yeah. That’s fine. Like sign me up. Um, I mean, you know, if there’s a role that you feel I can nail. Of course. Andrew: Okay, great. Christina: Before I let you go, I want to talk about, uh, the work you’re focused on right now.
Um, because you you’ve put out a new album in 2023, and, uh, it’s called Adrift, and it’s beautiful. And of course, we’ll point people to your Bandcamp and your website so they can check it out more. And by the way, I want to mention the two recent videos, um, Adrift.
There’s a video that Jenn Grant did, I saw it, it’s beautiful. And then there’s a recent one for Day by Day that Scott Munn, uh, directed. Andrew: Yeah. He like, well. He he he filmed it all, and then I just chopped it together. Christina: Yeah. It’s beautiful.
And where was that? And it’s on the beach somewhere. Yeah. Andrew: Yeah, it’s outside of Shediac. Um, it was. That was literally. We went for a walk on the beach and he was like, hey, I thought he was taking photos, literally. And he was like, filming.
And, uh, and he was like, I got a bunch. He was like, I got a bunch of, uh, great shots. And I was like, okay. That’s awesome. Yeah, it was. And it really was a beautiful day. It was in, uh, just outside of Shediac or in Shediac, I guess.
And, um, New Brunswick and, uh, because he had directed a, a documentary called, uh, Freeman Patterson The Universe Is Unfolding, and he had asked me to score that, and that was like a that was like a three year long process. Um, and so it was being released and, um, we were he had
Asked me to perform at the, at the screenings in Saint John and Fredericton and, uh, they were in really beautiful places like the, the, uh, the theaters that we were in and the art gallery that we performed in was, um, was really beautiful.
And so I just played like two songs, and then they played the film and, um, and so I was back for that. And, uh, and that’s why, uh, and I played songs from adrift because obviously it came the adrift came out the same day as that documentary, which was not by design.
It was literally happened by accident. Uh, you know, I, I’ve always written albums where I have a few songs and then I’m like, oh, these songs go together thematically, somehow lyrically. And, um, and then I flush out, I start writing to expand on
That idea, and that’s pretty much every album I’ve ever made. And, um, there’s only a few. There’s only like one exception where I didn’t do that. And, uh, and this was one where, um, I wanted to try something, you know, I was just, I was kind of bored with what I was
Writing, and I, I wanted to do something different and more challenging. And I had written this song called adrift that very much captured, um, what it was like to go through something very, very difficult, like one of, you know, like when you go through a life tragedy and, and, uh, or tragedies clustered
Together and you’re in a low point and then it is that rising up experience from the lowest point of your life that, um, I wanted to try to capture and and I wanted to try to capture some of the, like, the honest, uh, spiritual growth or the
Outcomes, um, that I could share with people that would like, ideally, uh, inspire someone who felt lost or hopeless or alone. And, uh, I really felt a strong desire to help people who had been through what I was going through. And, um, and when I, I literally was like, researching,
How do I become a therapist or how do I become a count, you know, and, and everything was like a 2 or 3 year master’s program. And, um, and I was like, how can I help people with what I already know how to do and can do?
And I’ve I’ve always written songs and I just thought, like, what if? What if I could write songs that if someone heard them and they felt that way, that there would be like a line in the song that would stick out to them and it would give them
Hope, or a sense of light or a sense of promise for a better future. And, um, and so I had never done something that and to me that like. That feels all awfully vulnerable. And I was very scared, very scared to write in that vein, honestly and vulnerably.
Um. And so I was terrified to do it. And that’s how I, I knew I had to do it as soon as I realized I was scared. And so I did. And so the challenge I decided to do is that I had written a
Drift, which is like, uh, there’s a lot of, like major minor seventh chords and like these kind of and I and it’s a song that’s like full of different parts. And I thought to myself, I’m going to deconstruct that one song and tell different aspects of the story.
So I would like take an element of the chord progression and reuse it in a different way for a different song, take an element of a melody and use that melody to build a new chord progression, you know? And like I was doing that with every song on the album is
Connected musically and lyrically and in a way I had never tried to do. And so it very much is like a song cycle of, uh, intertwined, interwoven narratives that kind of drag someone through the process of, uh. Realizing where they are in a bad state.
Revisiting the trauma and then the process of going through the disorientation and the sense of, um, hopelessness and, and then how light comes in and how you rise up and how you have to deal with shame and you have to deal with all of those things. And so this was my best attempt.
Um, and thanks to the Canada Council for the Arts. Um, I applied for a research and design. Um, and so that allowed me to, um, like, not just like, research, uh, trauma and PTSD, but also to research, like arranging, uh, because I wanted to elevate.
I wanted the music to be very powerful musically. Um, and so I mentored with Dave Christiansen, who is the writer arranger for Symphony Nova Scotia and who I had been a former band mate of mine many years ago when I played in Jenn
Grant’s band. And, um, and we always got along and he agreed to mentor me. And so we would just have like sessions and I would show him my work and he would give me feedback. And it was really like I felt so much growth musically.
That I had not felt since the early days of, like, learning music. And, um, and that’s really like I feel elevated musically in ways that I had, I hadn’t experienced before. And, uh, and so that album was actually supposed to be demos,
But in the end, um, it was like good enough that Mike Feuerstack, who is a good friend of mine here, he mixed it and we were like, this is the album. I guess. Yeah. Christina: If you’re even just curious, don’t really understand, you know, what you’re going through. I mean, maybe there’s
Something in Adrift that, um, you might might resonate and you can go from there, you know? Andrew: Well, that was my hope, at least. And I. And I know that, um. I know that uh, I wanted to lyrically write from a point of view of, um, being on the other side of it.
Uh, that because people, when they’re in it, it’s, it’s hard to see sometimes that things will get better. Christina: Mhm. Andrew: Mhm. And um, and so I wanted to always have that in every song, an element of by the end of the song there’s a resolution of like. Yeah.
And ideally some, some kind of mantra of uh that you can hold on to, to uh, navigate, you know, and when you’re in, you’re in your 20s and you’re, and you’re making art or you’re in a band or whatever it is. And, um, or you just in your 20s, you don’t necessarily, you
Know, it’s there’s, there’s, um, you know, lots of unlucky people who have, you know, all sorts of traumas that they experience at that age. But, um, a lot of people. I know that I. I should speak for myself. I know that I didn’t consider all of, um, the. Yeah, the normal.
Like no one escapes the loss of loved ones or a separation of some kind, or, uh, the loss of material wealth or possessions or opportunities, um, failure of some kind, um, you know, illness, uh, to you or someone you love, like, uh, those things
Happen to you can’t get through life without running into those things. And, um, and that’s, you know, that poem Desiderata. It has that line that says foster strength of spirit. Uh, so that when you, you know, I can’t remember the exact line, but so that when you encounter hardship, uh, that you’re prepared.
Christina: Mhm. Andrew: Yeah. Christina: I don’t remember that in there but I’m just kidding. Andrew: I think it’s in there. Maybe I’m thinking of a Van Halen song. Christina: I think you are. No, I, my, my brother sent me that poem and I
Remember having it taped in one of my journals years and years ago. I don’t remember, but I, uh, I don’t remember what it says, but. No, it very may well be. I trust your memory, uh, far above my own. Um, okay. So, um.
Mhm. Maybe nothing’s next for you, but what’s next for you? Andrew: Well, I’ve been composing music for film is something I’m really interested in. Uh, right now. It was a really good experience. Um, it’s a totally different challenge. And it’s the same kind. It’s like using the same muscles and skills to do
Something completely different. And, um, that’s it’s fun. And, um, and so that’s something that’s coming up and, um. Christina: Is it easier for for you? Is it easier sometimes? Because sometimes Dale and I will write music for, um, a film and TV, and we don’t.
They don’t want lyrics and sometimes I, I really appreciate that. Andrew: Yeah, I agree, uh, lyrics are the. Absolutely. If you’re going to write authentic like lyrics that you have to sing yourself, that is the most that is one of the most demanding things to ask a person to do.
Um, especially after so much has been written. You know, we’re in this era to to have a lyrical voice that is your own. That’s a real challenge. And I think that, um, uh, yeah, just writing music is so, so much easier and so much more playful and fun.
And I think that’s when I teach a songwriting workshop at Shivering Songs Festival. Um, I’ve done it for the last 3 or 4 years. Um, that’s one of the things I always say is that, you know, when people want to write something musically, they’ll be
Fun and experimental when it comes to the musical part. But when it comes to the lyrical part, they they never apply it with the same approach or idea. It’s not it’s very rarely playful and it’s very rarely experimental. Mhm. Um, and I think that’s why people get stuck. Um, lyrically.
Christina: Thats a good point. Yeah. I should actually I’m going to take that as an advice for whatever the fuck I’m going to do. I love you, Andrew. I think you’re a wonderful friend and human and a gem. And, uh, thank you for taking my calls sometimes.
And, uh, your wisdom and sharing so much of yourself, you know, in our friendship. And I know, you know, you’re like that in life with, I think, the people that you care about. But I just really appreciate you. And, uh, I hope you know that you’ve had a big impact on my life.
Andrew: Thank you so much. Uh, you as well. You have been such an incredible friend and have been such a wonderful. Christina: Go on. Andrew: Is this the part of the podcast. Christina: We’re gonna cut out? The part that I. That I just said and go right to. Yes. Yes. No.
Andrew: Uh, I cherish our friendship. And we’ve had so many amazing, uh, times together. And I just think that, um, I’m really grateful, uh, to have our conversations. You know, not everyone’s interested in talking about the things that we talk about. And so it’s a joy to have
Someone like that in our lives. You know, we, um, we as a community, uh, we’re lucky. We’re we’re so lucky. We have so many good people in our in our lives. Uh, I am so grateful. Um, and that’s, you know, that’s one of the reasons I.
When I make music, I try to involve my friends because we don’t get to see our friends a lot, and we don’t get to interact a lot. And it’s like it motivates us to interact in a in a beautiful way. And I feel like it.
It leaves a trail uh, for the older versions of ourselves to look back and say like, look, look at how our lives are intertwined creatively and because we knew socially, but but to see it. Uh, and here it it’s I think it’s magical.
Christina: I do too. Did you enjoy your Chat with Heart? Andrew: This better not be how the podcast starts. Song ‘I Don’t Want to Say Goodbye to You’: I don’t want to say goodbye to you. I don’t want to say goodbye to you. Heartbeat Hotline: Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline 1-902-669-4769.
I’m the host of a Chat with Heart Podcast, Christina Martin. And I’m so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you’re calling from,
And it’s also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day! Christina: Thanks for listening to a chat with Heart podcast, produced by me, Christina Martin. Co-produced and engineered by my husband, Dale Murray. Dale is a stellar singer, songwriter and music producer,
So check out his website dalemurray.ca, The podcast theme song Talk About It and I Don’t Want to Say Goodbye to You were written by me and recorded by Dale. Visit my bandcamp to find CDs, vinyl, digital music and fun merch like custom made puzzles and temporary tattoo packs.
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