High Test + High Ai or Low Test + No Ai | DNS 212

Dave Crosland & Scott McNally TIME STAMPS BELOW High Test & More Ai or Low Test & Less Ai. Insulin Timing. Time Off Between Blasts + More

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0:00 Start

2:00 Timing Insulin and Growth

5:30 Baked Beans With Eye Balls

12:00 Fat Grips?

16:15 The singer of “As I Lay Dying”

19:45 High Test with Ai or Lower test with less Ai

30:10 Dave calls Scott out

30:40 Time off all gear between cycles

33:00 Under Construction the Film

34:05 Kuba Cielen

35:25 How long between cycles on TRT

46:20 Left Ventricle Hypertrophy

52:25 H C G for fertility while on

54:10 Insecurities even after getting into shape

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What’s up guys welcome back to the podcast with Dave Crossland I’m Scott mcnell and all of our programming is brought to you by you the people of patreon if you have any questions at patreon go ahead and ask them there we’ll get them on the shows I’ve got a

Couple from patreon today links to that below we are brought to you by true nutrition.com use our code think for additional savings on everything you can think of every bodybuilding supplement you need carb powders proteins creatin use our code think over there to help support the programming eval blood

Analysis.com you can get your lab work done by Dave Plus getting an evaluation on it he’ll tell you everything that’s going on in your body uh you can do that Dave will do it directly for you he’ll come to your house you can get your labwork done by Dave he’ll do it today

He’s got time right after the show just give him a ring go to eval blood analysis.com strong Sports Nutrition for those of you in the UK um people had been asking uh Rich about getting some uh uh free supplements Rick Foster over there at stum he didn’t like that very

Much but let me do this let me encourage you guys if you place an order with stum there’ll be like a little section that says like additional notes like tell say I love Richard Foster I’ve had a crush on him for years and uh I can’t wait

Until he is mine say something along those lines in the notes every single one of you all right I think it’ be better actually saying that Scott and Dave are a and you’re poo that’s good too did you just say a poo no your poo just your poo just Scott and

D and Richard is poo yeah that’s good okay let’s go with that that’s a good one um also we’re brought to you by supplement source.com on patreon patreon people get priority Dave we’re going to just jump right into this thing um we’re going to start with a diet question though we

Were going to kind of like ease in with some stuff questions and go from there um so question my schedule H is subject to change Monday through Friday so I cannot control my meal times as alignment now we didn’t know what aignan was I thought it was a British term Dave

Said no I think it is a person who works on a production line so they’re on a fixed schedule um but then you would think maybe it maybe it shifts maybe the shifts move I don’t know Al lineman anyway though he says but I can’t control my macros is it all right to

Just hit my oh it’s not a diet question my HGH uh 6 I use at night wake up eat high carb protein meal with Humalog and hit the gym before work he’s been running growth for 6 months and insulin for only 12 weeks at a time so it sounds like he just can’t

Control his food schedule through the day and his thought is should I take my all my growth 6 IU before bed and then wake up and do your insulin with your meal one boom yeah I mean l doin is not overly high so as long as he’s relatively consistent with

His food through the day I don’t see there being a major issue there um I get a bit wary around lantis if someone’s going to end up having like six or 7 hours of fasting periods because of work commitments for argument sake someone who was um a call out

Driver for breakdown or something like that you know they can get stuff on a job for hours and just not be able to eat so I wouldn’t be keen on lantis on someone who’s going to have big fasting periods during the day because of how

The work schedule is but as long as his macros are reasonably consistent I don’t see any issue with AE a morning lantis premeal and then going into his day I definitely think that ghpm is is the best solution for where he is with things yes um Humalog he’s using Humalog

So yeah I mean oh yeah so it’s fast yeah sorry brain not working yeah yeah you need to get that coffee in yeah Humalog I mean the key is is to around that around 4-Hour window around the Humalog you want to make sure that you have everything managed so I the only

Thing I would be concerned about would be you know you’re getting enough carbs in for the dose you’re using plus you know realistically we should be using low doses we don’t need to be like hammering that Humalog with a bunch I mean you’ll find three units of Humalog

Is going to be enough to give you a nice blast and and you’re not going to have to worry as much about carryover post-workout you know any any type of like residual issues if he’s going to use hum sorry if he’s using fast action pre-workout I would definitely look at

Some int nutrition for the workout yeah that’s a good idea uh um to maximize it otherwise I’d be more tempted to put it in post-workout as long as he knows he’s got reasonable frequency of food even though it may not be perfectly timed um but again dosing like you say I

Mean I think he’s going to be good with 34 IU I don’t think he really needs any more than that if he’s going to do it pre-workout with a meil yeah I would say wake up eat my carbs like this is all regardless of when you’re taking growth

You know what I mean like I don’t care you’re taking growth at night that’s fine but if you’re going to let’s just the question is really about using insulin in meal one before train and training after meal one so you get your carbs in meal one then insulin then

Train have that intra workout on hand pre post-workout meal right now you’ve kind of sandwiched things in and add a 3 to four unit dose you’re going to be relatively safe yeah I I think you’re going to get good doing it that that way you’re obviously going to get a a spike with

Your your morning meal anyway so eat your morning meal pre- insulin like you’ve just suggested then have your insulin with your intra and your post and that initial shot of of 4 IU is going to carry you through the workout and postmeal nutrition and comfortably sit you down

In then and then you’ve got your break before you eat your next meal at work whenever that is so yeah seems fairly slid but I just would be a little bit on the lighter side rather than the heavier side dose wise hey before we get further into this

I I kind of went add and interrupted myself from doing our questions I had a question for you um how often in the UK this is kind of like a cultural question how often in the UK do you get a can of baked beans that has an eyeball in

It oh da once a week at least yeah once a week at least guys I sent this article to Dave if I I had my own eyeballs in it if I don’t if it doesn’t come with one I sent this article to Dave and this

Guy claims that there was he he’s a UK guy that’s what made me think of Dave said there was an eyeball in his baked beans that is weird if it’s true yeah because you you even if you know even if um that is legit it’s like why would you

Have an eyeball anywhere near a vegetable product it’s not like it’s a meat processed plant yeah for baked beans oh and just bar Liam hunter from the from the from the show he said uh he wouldn’t do Richard Foster dirty like that yep so he’s B get rid of him all

Right we’ll ban him we’ll ban him straight away he also said he realized that Scott has some outrage just forarms thank you thank you for that I’ll take that boom boom Dave there take that and I never know we all we all know why that is do we hey they’re both the

Same size maybe I’m maybe I’m ous I set myself up for that one and listen uh I’ll tell you what man I I’ve never directly done forearm work you see guys that are like hey you know I I do my curls and then I do this and then I

Do my reverse curls and then I do my wrist curls and you know what I mean I’ve never done that stuff it’s just a matter of if you get strong everything’s going to grow your forums are going to grow from holding on to a heavy bar you know

Really where’s this guy from he’s from uh Plymouth Plymouth Devon oh no excuse me he’s located in Tesco in Plymouth Devon United Kingdom where’s that at Plymouth is the bottom end of the country so it’s closer to like uh like it’s below below London so it’s that Coastline okay so you’ve got

Bournemouth and then Plymouth and then it moves down into sort of Cornwall so Plymouth sort of big Naval place um sort of top edge of Cornwall really I suppose in the sense of moving up the country but it is the bottom Coastline it’s a flat bottom of England that’s where

You’re looking about four hours to get there about eight oh really see I’ve had it in my head that you can get anywhere in the UK in four hours in England it’s traffic 7 to8 from where I am geez um we have a clinic down

There we have a we have a girl called Beth down in Plymouth no we don’t we have Abby down in Plymouth Beth’s in buou oh no kidding no kidding so you guys have stuff set up like uh just at different um different gyms or how does that work 18 clinics now holy crap

Are they running like every day or how does that work like Sunday as she comes in or so yeah so it’s it’s a mix um some of them are existing establishments that do other things and do with us as well Okay so we’ve got five which does

Cosmetics and then does work for us we’ve got Glasgow which is just purely she goes in for any bookings that we have huddersfield’s fulltime Bradford’s full-time um North Wales is a room in a gym but she goes in as and when she’s got bookings South Wales is a room in a gym

But it’s run by the gym owner so it’s open whenever uh Nori is a clinic um Swindon is a bit of a mix so he’s doing it from his home but also gym stuff uh ess6 is gyms and a clinic room uh suffk is home Plymouth is a gym

But it’s a clinic in a gym so it’s a proper Clinic room in a gym uh Bournemouth is mobile London is mobile two londons are mobile uh blood B is running all around London well no they just come to your home so they just come oh you’re kidding

Me they really do so when I said da will come to your house and take your blood I kind of wasn’t wrong thing is with London is so dense population wise it’s viable to do that but in other areas the travel amounts just too much it’s that’s

Wild man all right listen we got a bunch more people don’t care about the individual hours of each location Dave they don’t they don’t but on that on the topic of uh arms what about fat grips somebody asked us on one of her like super old episodes

They commented with a question for Dave and it was like from an episode from like two years ago so I made a note and I wrote it down in the patreon so I’d remember cuz I would never see that somebody said ask Dave what he thinks

About fat grips do you even know what those are I know what fat grips are fat grip that’s why I’ve got fat hands fat grip um I’m not a fan I think they’re a bit fatty um I think that they’re actually going to be more unproductive from a

Point of view of damaging the workout you’re trying to do yeah I am a great believer that if you want big forearms and you don’t naturally have firearms that are developing with your training then train them but what I don’t what I don’t want to do and what I wouldn’t advise to do

Is let other body parts suffer because of your forearms right um so using fat grip on a biceps or fat grips on a pull down because you want to affect your forearms more is generally going to pull away from the bicep or the for or the the back work

That you’re doing so I would rather use straps Ure my back is trashed and then if I need to train my forearm separately but also it it’s that I think people are a bit they’ll come in and they’ll be doing a warm-up set of 70 80000 pound pull

Downs and they’re using straps and it’s like why you don’t need it let your arms do work until the point where it’s starting to become a restrictive problem then strap up yeah um it’s the same like I feel the same about squatting with knee wraps you know don’t wrap from the

Very first set wrap when you need them when you need that confidence booster or you need that security of a rra yeah um so I think that’s where a lot of people sometimes go wrong with the support AIDS is that they use them it’s like people

That wear a belt for every set of everything they do and it’s like well your core is just not going to be engaging and it’s not going to strengthen in line with your movement because you’re constantly restricting it because you’re constantly wearing the belt yeah um I I understand

Where people are trying to deliberately smallen their waist that that’s a different scenario but uh in general you know I put apparatus on when it’s required and I feel the same way about straps and rist for and if if fat grips is a way to improve your grip strength

Yes fat grips is something to incorporate into regular training no yeah I’m with you 100% you know I like some guys are like oh I want to have that strong grip strength like even fat grips aside they’re like oh I don’t use straps cuz I don’t you know I want

My grip strength to be strong it’s like well if you’re powerlifting or you know you’re a strong man then I I totally get that because your ability to do your work is going to depend on your grip you can’t use straps in a competition but for us in bodybuilding I mean what’s

Going to be stronger my entire back or my grip you know I mean you can develop very strong grips no no issue with that but my only argument is don’t don’t destroy a backat workout because you’re trying to overwork your grip you know if you if do

The bat workout to its Max potential and then if if your forearms are lacking do your forearms as well yeah hey remember last you see people train anymore is forearms to be honest you don’t see it you you say no I don’t I don’t think I’ve seen anyone train forarms in a very

Long time it used to be something like it was kind of part of your arm workor out years ago like in the early 90s late 80s you remember last week we talked about trt in in jail and uh we had a few people comment I guess that Dave Palumbo

Was given trt when he was inside but he had Rick Collins was his lawyer and he probably you know you’re GNA have to pay a lawyer like Rick Collins to ensure that that’s going to happen there’s that um Larry Pollock who is another guy he listens to our show he met mentioned

That he was given uh trt when he was inside but other people didn’t you ever hear of a band called As I Lay Dying no me either but the singer of As I Lay Dying went to prison off AAS and tried to sue for not being allowed to

Use serms and alleged gyno and other side effects is he a big dude I wonder let’s see I’m GNA find him out are they is everybody that’s are they all American based that have got the trt sounds like it I I mean I’m not saying it’s never happened in the UK I’m

Just not aware if it ever happening in the UK okay so I think so this is the guy in the middle uh the guy in the Middle with the sleeveless shirt not the guy in the end with the sleeveless shirt he was the one it looks like cuz here’s also here’s

Another picture of him and it looks like he may be sentenced at this point here that looks like a courtroom to to me so he was the one that went to jail I mean he’s not really big there but then again there there’s I would I would have said the first picture I

Would said yes he’s seen the inside of a gym yeah then again though I think this is the same band here so that’s a little bit of a transformation if that’s the same guy hold on a second let me bring up that other picture and we can compare the tattoos

Let’s see so what’s is is this post heroin and the first one preh heroin let’s see here hold on I’m looking for a different picture that’s just a dramatic change yeah yeah that really is so let’s see here can you m line up those tattoos

Dave I mean he looks like M I’ve only got half a pair of glasses working I can’t even line up the TV greaten that’s a good point it’s a good point hey Dave how many fingers am I holding up two all right sorry guys we get a little

Distracted here sometimes um we we’re we’re very disorg this is absolute garbage this week is it any different than is that any different than normal let me ask you that well I think he’s probably probably yeah actually I think he’s worse than all well I asked you about your thing and

You spent 18 minutes I recorded 18 minutes you’re like and brzin were’re open from 10: to 3: in inth we’re open from 11: to 5: on Mondays and Wednesdays V when I can don’t give me the opportunity then don’t in Liverpool we’re available on Sundays and Mondays

You can Bill home lipol actually I need I need one in Manchester and I need one in Liverpool so if anyone’s watching and they need so they need to be like a registered what therapeutic FLOTUS type thing yeah you pay him pretty good too from what I hear and people seem to be

Happy working with you Believe It or Not guys people actually like working for Dave we’ve actually got a good team um a very good team around us I’m really happy with the people we have working for us uh and and it’s I know everyone says they make it like family and you

Don’t actually when you employ people you don’t want to make it like family because if you do they take the piss um but they they just they’re a hardworking bunch and everybody Ms in and they you know it’s great yeah I I am very blessed in that

Department all right we do have like an Ask Davey or an uncle Davey type question for the end something to deal with insecurities let’s see here what else do we have though um all right says uh Scott and Dave uh Happy bladed New Year my question is higher test Cycles

Require higher antiestrogen such as a remedex or a risin intake um would you rather have lighter test cycle but less anti-estrogen intake or would you go hard with test and take more anti-estrogens depends on my goal and the individual yeah if somebody has a problematic relationship with estrogen where they are particularly sensitive

And they particularly struggle to manage it then I would definitely be looking at a lower test based uh and and you know other compounds if somebody has a good tolerance of easen even though they may need slightly more anti-estrogen management but they’re not super sensitive to it so there’s room

For a little bit of leeway there there’s a bigger margin of where we can spill over without having any consequences then I’d probably be happier in pushing the wet drugs higher um eastren plays a significant role in growth um it plays a significant role in Health

Management and it’s always going to be a tradeoff between having good high estrogen to promote growth and health but not having it that high that it starts causing new problems and that threshold is going to be very different from person to person I mean we’ve this

I know people that when and I’m going to speak in English Rangers so I do apologize for the American fans but I know people that start getting IO isues around 200 PM for for EAS reget and what’s the range in p uh 149 I think is the upper limit okay so you’re only

Talking you know 20% above upper limit and then they’re getting very severe gyo but I know people that can tolerate 500 600 yeah and yeah they’ll have a bit of water retention but that’s it yeah and I tend to find that the people that have a

Much greater tolerance of e are the ones that can build the really really big muscle um H and more so almost in defiance of where their Total Drug dosing is so uh for argument sake I’m not going to mention his name but I know a couple of very established bodybuilders who run

Eastren very high that’s just naturally where they are it’s not deliberate it’s just how they work okay uh they don’t do particularly big Cycles but they develop very large amounts of muscle mass yeah and then I know other people who run much higher cycles and I know there’s

All sorts of other factors in this as well so I’m not for one minute trying to say this is purely down to e levels but they have to keep e much lower because they don’t tolerate the elevation and they seem to need much higher levels of anabolics to develop a similar level of

Muscle mass when they are very evenly matched when it comes to training ability strength and those sort of fact factors yeah so I do think Eastern plays an important role but uh I’ve always been the impression run it as high as you can without it causing you

Problems um but that is going to be particularly individual to each person and and that’s where it becomes more complex because there isn’t a you know one siiz fits all every single person’s going to have different factors body fat plays a level in it um clearance rate

Plays a level in it conversion rate plays a level in it you know natural metabolism plays a there’s all sorts of factors that come into this so um it isn’t that clearcut but uh for me I don’t have an issue with AI High AIS if they’re needed but I would want to be

Justifying why I’m doing it so if I know I’m going on a bit here so I’ll cut this very short now but if if I know that with somebody if I push their their test up to say 6 700 we’re going to get a pronounced increase in development and it works very well

For them but it means I have to run High AI to do it then to me that’s a fair tradeoff but if I know pushing the test up high on someone and I’m having to wrong High AIS and I’m not getting the payback for that yeah then it’s not it’s

Not a rude I would go I would look for a lower test Bas less AIS and using different compounds yeah so it it’s as long as the juice is worth the squeeze crack on you know do what you have to do to manage the drugs you’re taking the

Only way you’re going to know that though is by trying it unfortunately there’s a large element of trial and error with this but if you push your test up to say 500 and you start getting problems and you start finding it difficult and you’re getting blood pressure issues and and you’re generally

Not feeling it then there doesn’t seem to be much sense in trying to push your test higher even with better easr management yeah but if you’re in the 500 range you feel good but you’re a bit watery then I can say well look okay this looks like you’re going to tolerate

A higher test cycle much better and test is a perfectly viable compound that produces very good bang for book yeah you know it’s a very even Keel drug from a point of view of how you manage it what you have to do to manage it and the results you get out of it

Yeah a couple things Dave like you said let’s say somebody somebody gets worse side effects and estrogen gets out of control when they’re at say 750 test um and and and they’re not getting the results that we wanted then absolutely that’s where I think maybe bringing in a

Different compound Works let’s keep that test lower me personally maybe I’d throw in some EQ with that you know it’s going to be a very anabolic compound and maybe then we don’t get the same level of side effects and the same that that we don’t have the same issues with estrogen

There’s probably still going to need to be some AI level of control there the other thing I’d say though is that you know we aren’t talking about uh doing this for the rest of your life right we’re talking about this is going to be a 12-week period and um as you’ve often

Said that you took from bradrick there’s a tool for a job you know and if if this job is to get you incredibly big in say the next 12 weeks and you’re going to be using some AI with that personally man I don’t think that AI is just such a

Terrible thing that we need to like not put the size on to avoid you know taking it are there other ways you could go about it you know absolutely I mean now everybody’s using mask to help control estrogen maybe it’s going to be masked in a smaller amount of AI but I don’t

Think that if you’re going to play with big boy doses there’s going to be some level of estrogen control that needs to happen with that that’s just going to be part of the game you know if you and here’s the thing you know do you use lower doses well it’s like okay if

You’re okay with you know maybe you’re not going to make as much progress that way obviously there is an amount of like the more you take the more you grow there is some serious truth to that um but obviously more side effects there’s a lot to it so it’s not that simple but

Yeah I just I don’t think that and we’ve said it before I don’t think the AI is necessarily is evil you know when now if you were to say to me oh I’m going to have to use a high level of AI in order

To run my trt for the rest of my life now to me then a flag goes off and I say oh we got to do something else you know yeah I mean you don’t buy a VA and then complain about the fuel bill you it’s that sort of thing you know um

If you think I mean the way I see it I would rather run um a substantial but not ridiculous cycle of something like test and Decker and wet drugs and deal with the estrogen if that’s going to get me the muscular gains I’m looking for in that period of

Time rather than do test and Primo or test and mass and end up having to do two or more Cycles to replicate that level of growth because my total exposure to anabolics is going to be less yeah yes i’ I’ve got a harsher from a physical effects I’ve got a harsher

Setup with the test and deca yeah but I’m only going to be uring that for 12 weeks whereas if I go the say test and Primo route I could be enduring that for a total of 30 weeks 35 weeks absolutely and it’s still anabolics you know it’s

There’s still effects in there that you can’t avoid so it is a balanc thing uh um you know about how much exposure you give yourself to these drugs in order to achieve your goal and don’t don’t get swept up in this oh well Primo safe so

At the end of the day a grammar Primo is a grammar Primo it’s still still a thousand milligrams of an anabolic yeah um so so don’t get too swept up in this it’s about picking the which we I’ve yeah it’s a broken record of this but it’s about picking the optimum drugs for

What you’re trying to achieve and if you can minimize your overall exposure crack on there there’s always going to be a tradeoff but that trade-offs personal to you as well so you have to decide on the risk and reward scale how much you’re willing to play with for the perceived rewards you

Think you’re going to get but physically I mean both test and decer are actually quite relative well tolerated by the body from a point of view of those compounds it’s just the estrogen management side that becomes an issue well and the progesterone simulation as well but uh so that’s where you really

Need to to to to keep your eyes but yeah there’s uh I don’t think there’s a right answer to that one to be honest I think it’s just a case of what fits I’m with you all right how about this one um is there any value yeah have you noticed that since someone’s

Compilated Scot’s forearms there’s a lot of this going on oh yeah I always lean forward so otherwise I’m back here and I don’t feel like I fill the screen up right so I always I’m always right here I got another question for you guys yeah here I got another question let me

Just yeah what’s that what’s that over there yeah all right let’s see um is there value in taking four to eight weeks off after a 12 to 16 week cycle um before starting trt he says he’s been cycling for eight plus years and not trying to establish natural

Levels so I’m not talking about PCT um but basically a period of time to let your blood markers test and estrogen come back down um before going to a PCT especially to speed up the process of getting back to Baseline I would say there’s definitely argument for a period of no anabolic

Introduction post cycle the period would depend on the doses you were using so if you were using 500 Mega test a couple of weeks he’s going to see you getting pretty close to Natural ranges if you were using to grammar test then that window is going to be a little

Bit longer um he’s probably going to be four weeks maybe even five before you’re back into natural ranges so it all depends on where you were in your cycle with your levels as to how long you need post cycle to let things drop back down but I would always recommend post cycle

Nothing for a few weeks again based on what you’ve been doing and then pick up your te trt or your PCT or whatever it is you are then going to do moving forward yeah yeah inde depending on compound too so like somebody who’s running EQ um in fact I I work with a

Guy right now who’s coming off of that and we discontinued the EQ a week earlier and we’re going to continue on the test for another week then we’re going to discontinue the test and then we’re going to continue without anything for a twoe period of time and and then

From there then we’re going to start trt back up yeah it’s if it’s surprising how long your levels will stay elevated if you go straight onto trt post cycle yeah I’ve I have literally seen test levels double natural up a limit six seven weeks post termination of cycle because

They went straight back on trt yeah um so it is surprising how long they’ll stay elevated uh and the problem is then obviously a lot of people get to week eight and they’re starting to look about going back on whereas in hormon you’ve never actually been off you’ve always been on an escalated

Level I love this every once in a while we get somebody who just saw the under construction film she says just checked out under construction and man I thought my training was intense turn out turns out I had no idea what intensity was very cool that this insane cycle is

Documented how jealous I am of that medicine cabinet and super impressed and super impressed by the art a man of many talents uh no I don’t know about that man of master of none um yeah well if you want to learn how to train come to my training seminar on the 4th of

February there oh yeah yeah you still have some slots left for it I I assume got a few left yeah it’s only going to be like okay so but you’re limiting it though it’s only going to be like 10 people right and what’s the date on that

Again fourth of Feb and where’s that at uh ult Flex in rum okay okay and that’s ku’s yeah it starts about 9: in the morning finishes about 5: in the evening okay you might even get a chance to say hi to Kuba then I do Kuba and I are GNA do a

Podcast together coming up here real soon he uh people really connect to his talk about training he’s a very passionate man about training he he he Kuba puts a a lot of effort into everything he does um yeah whether I mean I’m actually not that up to speed

On Cuba’s current training philosophy to be fair so I’ve not actually discussed training with him I know he’s drugs and I know it’s helpful because I work with his Bloods but I’m not actually up to speed on his current training philosophy but I believe it it’s sensible and

Decent there’s nothing in there that’s ridiculous or anything he is highly influenced by JP but he uh he puts a lot of effort into everything he does yeah uh puts a lot of effort into his coaching he offers his clients huge amounts of support they’ve got like Saturday

Morning webinars they can join and all sorts of stuff he puts events on for him he he’s he’s really structured what he does as a very efficient and big business you know what I mean he really goes to town on trying to deliver a great experience for his

Clients and his customers um I got a lot of respect for Kuba he’s he’s come a long way in a short time that’s cool that’s good to hear too um how about this one question for the next episode um how long will I need to be on trt

Before I can start a cycle considering that my Bloods have been fine throughout my cycle okay so I think he’s like going from how long does he need yeah how long does he need to break in between yeah yeah 1,700 days that’s a long time Dave it’s years don’t do drugs just stay

Natural like me uh Ron partlo told this funny story and it’s just bodybuilding when he was because when he was a teenager he was really strong by the time he was 17 he was like benching 315 and he was a big kid too like over like you over six foot

One of those guys and I think he was like 17 years old and he was he was pretty big at the time and some guy was like hey when are you going to hop on the juice and at the time Ron had no intentions of running gear and he said

He said some qu some statement back to him like I’d rather be the biggest guy in the gym and the biggest guy in the whole world I’m never touching that stuff he was like and the guy literally just busted out laughing just like couldn’t un uncontrollably started

Laughing in his face and he said you come back to me in a couple years kid you realize how stupid you sound um I would say irrespective of blood markers I would be uncomfortable at anything less than 8 weeks I would want to see damn good reasoning as to

Why and us usually it’s a comp schedule yeah um because even though blood markers may be correct you’re not going to see the stress factors created by a cycle okay and that just takes time um and what I’ve seen both in clients and experience personally is that I’ve I’ve

Finished Cycles I’ve felt good blood markers have been good and I’ve jumped on six weeks five weeks later um because everything looked great only to experience a real crappy cycle and very high toxicity very very quickly and the bottom line is your body just needs some time to chill um very

Unscientific I know but uh it just needs some downtime and if you don’t give it downtime what you’ll find is that drug fatigue is going to bite you in the ass halfway through the next cycle you do so a few extra weeks in that bridge point just to make sure that everything

Calm down will mean that your following cycle is going to be more productive and you’re not going to get tied up with toxicity and stress halfway through it which is going to start to hamper your progress yeah and there there was a reason you had to end that cycle too you

Know what I mean it’s that usually generally when people end a cycle it’s because they were ready to come off that things weren’t working as well anymore we we get to that point where we realize hey I think I I tapped out my progress here here’s a good time to reset so I

Would also use that time as reflection like okay well how what did I achieve in this last run you know where what kind of progress did I make even if you don’t have a coach I’m hoping that you’re taking pictures of yourself along the way you can compare those pictures and

Say okay so I see my back improved but my my legs they don’t look like they grew any better than they normally would have so what can I do to maybe adjust my training now you know and now you’ve got a period of time where hey now we’re

Going to adjust your training we can get into a good Groove with those new adjustments and then give yourself a reason then like you know what I mean now when you’re finally ready that eight weeks or whatever down the road to get back on now you’ve got kind of like a a

New stimulus that you’re getting to experiment with in the gym right I I think the problem with a lot of people is they come off cycle and and as a result they they mentally switch off to progress because their automatic assumption is I’m not going to progress

Yeah whereas I always used to come off cycle and have the mindset right I’m going to try and maintain my progress as much as I possibly can I know I’m not going to be able to I know the chemical addition is gone but that made me be hyperfocused on the quality of my

Training and everything else and the more you can maintain natural progress even if it’s minute in the sense of I’m getting half a rep extra every week or you’re seeing something that’s progressing either in your training or or or in your physique then when you do return to drugs your progress is going

To be so much greater but it’s so easy to we we focus so much around the cycle and then we come off and it’s almost like a post show effect where it’s like right I’m just going to eat [ __ ] now and I’m just going to take my foot off the gas and

It’s like no this is the point where you should really be nailing everything because this is what’s going to carry you forward maintain what you’ve made and actually set you up for the next push that you’re going to do yeah my first cycle I was terrified of

Losing the progress that I made like that was a huge driving force for me to make sure that I was even like more strict that I didn’t miss any meals that I still trained my butt off cuz I was terrified like my biggest fear was I’m

Going to do this cycle it’s going to be awesome like I’m going to gain all this muscle and then it’s all going to go away like I had a fear of people you know basically laughing at me for doing something that wasn’t like now you see

It wasn’t real muscle that was kind of a thought in the back of my head and at least it drove me though to do my best yeah i’ I’ve always really knuckled down post cycles because I didn’t want to step backwards yeah you know I wanted to

Maintain and I generally used to get a little bit of a strength boom two three weeks post cycle uh you mentioned that and so have other people that I podcast with and it it was where I I didn’t have a degradation of anything that had progressed but I had

To drop off the stress from the drugs yeah so now my body is much less stressed it’s much fitter and healthier in a way of it can perform and I’ve still got the chemical advantage in that I’ve still got that chemical strength active yeah so all of a sudden boom

Things would move uh and and that was always a good bonus and a good motivation to try and and keep but I also I very much had an attitude that um my training would always be very comparative so it was very similar week to week to week to week to week yeah so

I knew where my weights were I knew where my reps were but I also knew how they felt what the feel was when I was doing those sets H and I would be very conscious of trying to maintain that as much as possible where I think a lot of

People they don’t fight to keep that game that they will be very much like well I’m off cycle now so I’m not going to push my top end stuff or I’m going to do a load week or I’m going to I’m going to drop me calories a little bit and

It’s like who hang on a minute you need of those calories to build that muscle you need those calories to keep it yeah don’t worry about getting a little bit soft those first three four weeks post cycle because that’s going to help you hold what you’ve made yep and then then

Once you’ve established we can tidy up a little bit but don’t be scared to to get a little bit soft three four weeks post cycle um just to make sure that the calories are there to maintain what you’ve built the amount of times I see people pulling calories back pretty much

Immediately and it’s like whoa what the [ __ ] are you doing yeah it’s a good place to have a coach because they’re not going to let you know a good coach isn’t going to let you do that because in your head you are feeling okay so here’s the thing you’re not as full as

You were before uh body fat if you’re in an offseason like bulk pushup then you’re probably holding more body fat than you were now on cycle that’s great because you’re bigger and rounder and Fuller you’re stretching your shirts out you got veins all over your arms right

And then you come off that cycle you still have that extra body fat but without that you know that assisted fullness so yeah people start feeling a lot flabbier and then they make that mistake the the thing is as well I mean it’s like people will be like oh yeah

But I’m sick of eating well it’s hang on toit mate this isn’t uh this isn’t these calories you’re consuming aren’t optional yeah this is what your body now needs so this isn’t um oh push the calories up for this is it this is where your calories have to be you know if you

Want to walk around at 300 you need to consume enough calories to maintain 300 pound I don’t care how full you are I don’t care how Fed Up you are of eating this is what you have to do if you want to maintain that mass yep so if you’re

Suddenly going to go yeah I’ve done a 12we push I’m sick of eating now so I’m going to P my calories back well fine but expect the the physique to go back with it hold it four to six weeks then look at tidying up your body fat levels that’s

The thing people don’t get they blame the gear they’re like oh look at that guy’s 300 lb you know because they they think that it’s all because of the assistance but the the gear just allows you to make the use out of that food so food is by far the biggest challenge

When you start getting big yeah um it’s it’s a noose around your neck it really is cuz it never leaves you it’s something you have to maintain day in day out and that becomes the chore much more than anything else yeah and I can’t relate to it on your level obviously I

Understand it on my own level but to have been like a real solid 365 385 it’s some it’s some serious food you had to put down to stay there H it is and and that’s a lot of people are like I want to be big and then when they actually

Realize how much food it’s going to take to feed that big it then be [ __ ] oh [ __ ] hell you know this this just never goes this this is this is just like this I’ve just finished one meal I finally feel like I’m just about normal and it’s like I’ve got to eat another

One now oh Jesus yeah man I guess that guy that that rock singer that we were talking about uh he tried to uh kill his wife that’s what he went to jail for and Dana Lyn Bailey had a video with him and then she took it down once he went to

Prison so little little bit of uh side notes H that’s wild we got enough time for maybe one or two more here um oh how about this one I asked him for a little more details I didn’t hear back um do you guys have some tips uh let’s see do

You guys have tips for someone who just learned that they have LV H in the last 6 months thanks guys uh always great content are my PE day peed days over besides trt so left ventricle hypertrophy a lot deep so a lot depends on to the extent what what’s his um ejection

Percentage looking like how well is that left side working um we’re going to see a little bit of LVH just from training alone yeah so is is that all it is you know there’s a big sliding scale here um you know as long as you’re 50% or above you’re generally

Regarded as being in an okay Zone and and obviously improving that function through cardio will help when you start getting below 50 that’s when you have to start looking at choices a little bit more um but I think you know even non-users have LVH when they’re regular trainers so it’s like that

That that diagnosis covers a very wide range of effects and severities so it’s like are you at the mild end where it would have happened anyway just from the point of view of your exercising or are you at the other end where you’ve got an ejection of 35% and and your heart is

Really struggling to provide what you need for your body yeah and interestingly so um I was first diagnosed with left ventricle hypertrophy in my 30s and as a bodybuilder and of course I was scared the second I heard it and but thankfully I had a doctor that understood Athletics

And she said you know this is this is because you’re an an athlete because you’re a bodybuilder it’s called an athletic heart uh but then from there she said the key is is that we just want to keep monitoring it to watch how fast

It grows um so I always had that in my head you know all this time and then when I went to go see a a heart specialist to get uh my testing done this last year um he had said yeah you know you have some left ventrical

Hypertrophies and I said yeah I know you know athletic heart and all that he said well we stop calling it an athletic heart after you turn 40 just so you know after you’re 40 it’s just left ventricle hypertrophy yeah so um if your rejection gets below 30% I believe you are classed

As disabled oh really because your heart function is so compromised huh that’s interesting man that stress test was intense never done a stress test despite having all the problems with my heart but I think that’s because they don’t freaking need to no we don’t even need to do a test we

Know he’s snacked they had this treadmill uh and it was a unique treadmill and um they they’ve got you all wired up right and I’m walking on the treadmill and she’s every I think 30 seconds or every minute she’s increasing the incline and increasing the incline and increasing the incline and when

You’re pushing pushing pushing for everything you’ve got they’re like okay keep going and then they want you to just really go to the Max and when you think you’re done it’s like it’s like hit training man they’re like all right let’s do 30 more seconds you can do it

Cuz the higher you can get your heart the better and then from there you run over and you lay on a table and then they get the um the ultrasound out and your heart’s just going like you could hear it on the thing you know it’s kind of scary and they’re

Taking pictures and trying to move really quickly to get you while your heart rate’s moving as fast as it can that sounds like one of my cardio sessions in the morning I’m on the bikeing doing hit and hills and and then the instructor’s like right we’re just

Going to put resistance of I’m like yeah [ __ ] I just hang on his ass dang so hey with that uh the p does it just change those things automatically okay so yeah you can set it uh basically when the instructor says right we’re going to go up to a higher

Cadence or we’re going to do like they might do a speed push then the Cadence you obviously you have to provide yourself you can’t but the resistance will Auto change yeah okay I can see how that could be fun you don’t have to think about it you just follow the plan

It it’s on the harder more challenging stuff you you’re very focused on just getting through that that challenge at that point so you tend not to think about the actual workout and its full extent toy um but um they they some of them are pretty brutal yeah um I mean

I’m I’m not fit by anyone’s standards but um I’ve I don’t know what this would relate to in real world but I’m some of the workouts I’m doing now we’re hitting 75% 75 on Resistance it only goes up to 100 okay and I’m and I’m proper having

To power down to get that thing to move at that really um yeah and I do 20 minutes hitting Hills every day as much as I can OD one I’ll have to do a lighter one because I’m just don’t feel it or I’m struggling a bit but yeah um

And I I come off and I’m soaked and I’m blowing like an old car horse but I do feel much better for it I hate CIO just I don’t like it but I I have to admit I feel better for it and that’s what’s forcing me to keep doing it good I’m I’m

Glad to hear that man I I know that you you struggled to get into like a consistent plan with stuff you years back and you you’ve been at this for a while now yeah that’s come back of holiday and I dropped into it and I’ve pretty much done every day bar two nice

Okay um this morning I I sat out to do a hit and hills and within five minutes it was I’m I can’t even [ __ ] move this anymore so I dropped out and into a a gentless session but still made sure I did a session uh real quick real quick one uh HCG for

Fertility um while on so while on cycle uh what do you say 250 to 500 units twice a week something like that yeah yeah it would be 25300 U three times a week okay um the the serat cells that produce sperm can be stimulated by testosterone which is

Why you hear a guy actually you know getting a misses pregnant weather on cycle yeah okay uh the idea of HG is that it increases what’s known know as it which is inter testicular testosterone it doesn’t affect circulating levels but it will affect the stimulus within the testes

Themselves um and that in turn can increase cator cell stimulation uh there is also an element of a lack of lad cell degradation if you’ve got some HG stimulus in there as well so it can not completely but it can offset lady cell degreg to some

Extent all right and then I this one I thought was kind of like maybe a a question for our Good Old Uncle Dave um he says uh big fan of the show had a question for the next one uh what advice would you give guys uh to what would excuse me

What advice would you guys give to someone who has been out of shape with a lot of insecurities um to better to to to being in better shape sorry my brain’s not working today apparently sometimes with my with the way my brain works I can read better than others

Today I have literally been struggling like I just start putting words before others I could read it to myself but trying to [ __ ] read it out loud is a whole other thing basically though he’s saying um okay so he being out of shape with a lot of insecurities to being in a

Lot better shape but mentally he still feels like a busted can of biscuits I love that I love that phrase that’s a good one is that a British thing I no I don’t think so I think I’ve heard you say that before busted can of biscuits bag of Spanish maybe yeah

Um it’s a difficult one um is the simple answer um we all have so the first thing is you’re not unusual we all have insecurities and they can range and it is perfectly normal to have insecurities around the way you look that is very normal very standard a lot of people oh

I’ve got body dysmorphia not really body dysmorphia starts when the way you look would stop you from going to work or stop you from going to a social event or stop you from having friends that’s true body dysmorphia but that’s not to say that there’s a sliding scale here and we

You know we can have insecurities at any sort of levels um you recognize you’ve made improvements so there is definitely a positive there that you’re not blind to the fact that you’ve made improvements because you’ve stated I’ve made improvements but you’ve just not convinced yourself that those improvements are worth anything I suppose

Really um the thing is your physical appearance has no quantity on on your worth you know it it it matters jack [ __ ] what you look like from a point of view of what your worth is as a person yeah your worth as a person comes from your

Deeds for one of a better word your soul you know the type of person you are having said that I appreciate and understand that how we physically look can have a big impact on how we feel from our own confidence point of view for sure because Society does judge us

On the way we look and within this community it is absolutely effing brutal you know I can for people that don’t know me if I talk generally my words will be discounted because I don’t represent my knowledge physically people that know my history it’s a different scenario but if

I go and speak say say I want to speak at a college yeah the the the the vast majority of students at a college would not listen to a word I said why because I don’t physically represent what I’m talking about so we do live in a a

Society where image is important I I think the first thing is to try and accept who you are and I know it sounds corny but you’ve got to try and do it without judgment um so a prime example is I’m fat I know I’m fat I’m probably 70 pounds heavier than

I really should be if not more okay I’m not motivated visually to change that but I know I need to do it for health and performance point of view and I mean performance from a point of view of just living everyday life so I use that as the way to keep me

On the track H because I don’t give a [ __ ] about what I look like because I have been where I’ve been on my journey so it’s like who the hell do I have to prove anything to yeah um and it’s difficult to then find balance in looking after

Yourself now you’re at the opposite end of this where you feel your visual is is very very important about your selfworth and and it’s playing a massive factor in in how you feel about your quality as a human being and and trust me we all have qualities do matter how

Crap you think you are we have qualities you can use that insecurity as motivation to improve your physical IAL yeah but you have to be careful that you don’t become reliant on your physical as your identity yeah oh yeah because the most boring miserable [ __ ] bag of people

I’ve ever met are in the bodybuilding Community yeah you could be in freaking awesome shape like you can be one of the best people and you’ll still discount it when somebody else gives you you know any any type of compliment you know what I mean like you can be radically great

And somebody’s like oh man you look so awesome you literally you don’t hear it you’re just like oh yeah but then you think of who else looks better than you and it’ll keep doing that if you’re not if if you don’t like basically get in touch with understanding and really Dave

I think it’s even bigger it’s like looking for something outside of yourself to make you feel happy be it the physique that you’re building be it the car that you drive right all those things it all kind of falls into like trying to keep up like some sort of if I

Have this appearance then I’m going to feel happy you know and you never are it’s never ending you have to accept you for you in order to achieve happiness you will never be happy if you’re chasing the ideal body or you’re chasing the ideal lifestyle because as soon as you get there the

Goalposts have moved yeah and it’s now further away plus within this community there’s so much Fess from the way of the images that are posted online with Engles and angles and everything else that comes with it you’re working against an unrealistic ideal as well yeah so there’s nothing wrong with

Taking pride in the way you look there’s nothing wrong with wanting to build a good physique be careful you don’t allow that to become your sole purpose though because you are so much more than what you physically look like so many people in bodybuilding get so obsessed with the

Way they look they become so onedimensional as a person that they [ __ ] to be around because they’ve got nothing else and and I don’t want to talk bodybuilding 247 to somebody I want to talk to somebody who’s interesting who has life experiences who lives a life

Yeah and it’s balance you know some of these sacrifices in in other aspects of your life towards your physique are arguably worth it if you’re getting something off the end of that that’s very rewarding but you’ll find that physique congratulations are fleeting and the the warm feeling you feel when somebody

Compliments the way you look is shortlived and if you try and fill that void by developing a better physique you’re going to go down a road of of disaster fill that void by being confident and happy in who you are as a person and then use the physique as the icing on the

Top um yeah say I know loads of people with great physiques and they’re [ __ ] of people yeah and I know people that are great people and they’ve got crap physique so you don’t need a good physique to be a good person but I understand that you want to look good

And that’s fine and but just don’t make it your priority because it’s going to be a never ending task that you’re never going to be satisfied with and you may well actually end up injuring yourself in the process of oh sure man easier to justify using higher Doses and doing

Dumb stuff um let me ask you this then how how can one go up up upon that you know I I think what we’re seeing here too is is like it’s okay to still try to look your absolute best just like look at what are you actually expecting to

Get out of it CU I know that like for me I’ll get it in my head that like oh if I buy this item if I start obsessing on something I want to buy I start feeling like oh it’ll make me really happy to have that you know and the physique is

The same thing right like oh if I could get those 18inch arms I will be happy now you’ll be the same guy you’ll just have bigger arms so what look give us one tip on on it’s easy for us to say like okay so you know don’t just focus

On that what can we what can we do what’s one thing we can do to overcome that I think you have to be honest about yourself and you have to be honest about where you are and there has to be an acceptance of that so you can accept who

You are doesn’t mean you have to put up with that so effectively what you do is you go right this is me I’m XY Z I don’t like that element about myself so okay well I’m going to make a positive plan to change that for the

Better what does it take me to change that are the rewards I’m going to get from changing that worth what I have to do to achieve it and you yeah you just got to be a cons decision like yourself just mention I have purchased things in my life

Thinking that when I have them I be a better person and rarely has any of those things ever lived up to the expectation of what I thought they were going to bring me it just goes to the next thing you know and I’ve I’ve realized that happiness is actually a state of

Mind you don’t achieve happiness in the sense of you get it from achieving something you don’t get it from being somebody or making something you can make you happy but you don’t achieve happiness and there is a difference happiness comes from a contentment and acceptance of who you

Are but achievements can make you happy but they’re never going to be a long-standing happiness so what’s one what’s one thing that makes you happy like I mean genuinely happy nature I appreciate nature I appreciate the The Outdoor World um I I enjoy driving one of my cars um but there’s an element

Of anticlimax with that as well sure especially when it breaks you know well which it does more it’s 50 years old It generally breaks down more than it runs um so that that gives me moments of happy but it doesn’t give me happiness yeah but I enjoy I enjoy it I do enjoy

It otherwise I’d get rid of it I feel like for me family is one and and I genuinely get happiness from helping others whether it be like us helping people on the show coaching I to to know that like our lives are short and that if I can do something positive that

Makes the world a better place that gives me like true contentment yeah and and I mean I wouldn’t run eval I don’t think particularly from the financial angle yeah um if there wasn’t an element of reward from doing what we do which the genuinely is it gets frustrating at

Times and I said a couple of weeks ago I think it was I said that you know when i’ been away I’d realized the privilege I have in my life yeah and I need to be more appreciative of that and less complaining because actually it is a

Great privilege where I am and what I’ve got I’m not the richest man far from it most of my Social Circle is far more wealthier than me financially but I feel I’m very rich in other ways um I can’t stand me kids so I can’t say that family is a bonus because

They’re all [ __ ] but I I love my wife dearly um and and she I am gen I work with her I live with her you know we do everything together you don’t have that type of setup if you don’t enjoy being with each other yeah you know we

Don’t spend a great deal of time apart um Victor I regard myself as as being quite happy and quite content and as a result I could die tomorrow and have no regrets apart from the pain that would cause of a people yeah I feel very completed I I I

Feel very completed in life uh I don’t have any big yearnings to do this at or the other and as I’ve got older though it’s nice to be comfortable and it’s nice to be able to afford your bills and to be able to have nice materialistic things around they

Don’t have the level of importance they once did and financial achievement doesn’t have the level of importance once did and to be fair there’s something about not being well off and the Simplicity of that that has actually a bit of niceness around it uh you say that until you

Can’t keep the heat turned down you know what I mean there’s a li there’s a balance right there is a balance yeah but I mean it something my daughter said to me the other night she was going to go up in the car and sit on a

Hilltop and watch a movie on a phone in the snow and the cold okay because she found it really enjoyable and it reminded her of a time when she had no money and things were much simpler H okay so yeah I mean don’t get me wrong I’d rather be miserable and Rich than

Miserable and poor that’s why being miserable much more tolerable but at the same time financial success makes life easier but it doesn’t necessarily make life happier and my my my enjoyment comes from a lot of really the the simple things like just looking at scenery and stuff like that that don’t cost a

[ __ ] penny yeah oh watch the YouTube short the other day and this guy just interviewed this woman who was just like random uh 90 something year old lady sitting in a park and then she said they said like what did you what have you learned about life you know that you

You’ve realized with your age and she said that you know like material things aren’t important she’s like I have a house full of things that I’ve collected over my life and it my kids don’t really want these things like things that were important to her she’s like my kids

Don’t want these things um they live in small houses they don’t have the space for them at one time they were really important to me and I really felt you know like they were doing something for me but now I realize that they’re not important um and trying to make other

People happy and trying to stay in fashion all that stuff she’s like I realized that you just don’t need to worry about what other people think and it took her being that age you know I feel like the the quicker we can catch up with her the better we can live some

Really good years ahead of us and hopefully we don’t have to get to b95 to to figure it out you know I I I do think that that a lot of it is where we are mentally in in you can look at events like I can look at the 20 odd

Reports I’ve now got to write when I finish the show where oh [ __ ] I’ve got 20 odd reports I’m going to be here till 8 o’clock tonight or I can look at it as yeah I’ve got 20 we’re busy I’ve got 20 reports that’s great yeah you know and

And and I think it’s sometimes difficult to put that positive spin on it particularly with wonky glasses and only one lens working being half blind but at the same time I it is so much mindset oh yeah you you will be happy when you realize that your happiness is already

There you just have to open the tin and enjoy it yeah um and and yeah I mean I I do get to experience nice things but I’ve been dirt poor living on the street as well I’ve had both ends of this scale H and there was enjoyment just in the

Simple things in that as well you know so happiness can be found at all levels it isn’t financially motivated that’s not to say that removing the worries of finances don’t make it more comfortable because they do but um you know true happiness I think comes from self-acceptance that’s my honest opinion when you’re

Comfortable with yourself [ __ ] don’t matter anymore all right let’s wrap this thing up Dave do you have anything else you want to share I need a pee okay that sounds good I may have wet myself slightly guys check out eval blood analysis you can go

To Plymouth from 9: to 3: on Mondays and Wednesdays you go to Liverpool from 11 to 7 some dick will message now go Scott says I can go to Liverpool guys we appreciate you watching Dave appreciate you being here as always uh for real go to eval blood analysis.com St Sports Nutrition for

Those of you in the UK supplement source.com use our code think for you guys here in the US and of course thank you to everybody from patreon you guys are helping to make this thing happen for another episode of the podcast with Dave Crossland I’m Scott McNelly and oh

Sign up for Dave’s class I’ve got his uh social media in the description below uh reach out to him there we’ll see you soon guys bye