And welcome to this excuse me this special meeting of the growth and infrastructure overview and scrutiny committee it’s 2 o’clock so we will start the meeting I’ve received councel Bingley along with Council stowman have provided apologies today so as Vice chair I will chair this meeting today we are meeting to
Undertake pred decision scrutiny in relationship to the better place program a m away scheme I think it’s important for all of us to remember this is a new decision and a new scheme and members will be expected to direct contributions and questions to this report at certain times I may seek
Guidance from my advisors should we need to adjourn I will inform the committee what is happening and there will be time for us to recommit thank you the first item on the agenda I understand Council Bingley Council stowman have provided apologies in line with Part D section 8.1 of the
Constitution this is due to their involvement in decision relating to a m way I now move on are there any apologies at this point can I uh agree to the committee um voting for my voice chair thank you um yes any any interests no thank you does anyone um I
Know move on to CH chers urgent business which I have none you’ll be relieved to know I now move on to the main agenda item the betterplace program just saw the committee is completely clear on how I expect this meeting to run today there’s been a huge amount of
Information provided within the papers and we are joined by cabinet members involved in the process who are s supported by officers I will offer as much time as is necessary for the cabinet members and officers to introduce the report then I will open it up to questions I’ll load
The speaking list and please indicate should you want to speak but there is no limit on time today so this is a scrutiny that will take as long as is necessary I will intervene if questions or off topic have already been asked answered or are repetitive we have recommendations
Before us today but I would would ask that members highlight any particular recommendations as they emerge and we will discuss them towards the end of the session in advance of the meeting I received a number of questions from members of the public whilst there is no constitutional requirement to hear
Questions at scrutiny committees I have exercised discretion given to the chair in the Constitution to allow them there will not be written responses to the questions and I have informed question questionnaires that there will be no response to the questions directly provided I ask the committee members to
Hear what their representatives and if they deem appropriate and relevant they may form part of the discussion today it’s important that everyone’s aware that committee members are have been given a copy of all these questions so they are in a position to ask those the first is from Mr killroy which
Concerns Suds Desir Mr killroy would you like to ask your question thank you chair if no detailed Suds designs and calculations have been done how can we be sure that the scheme will have sufficient capacity to handle a roof runoff of any future development in the area thank
You thank you for your question I’m sure Journey afternoon that um that will come up um second one oh hello Miss taret um the second question is from Miss Penny taret would you like to come forward and ask your question please good afternoon um my question is why was no
Cost benefit analysis done regarding the translocation of the six now four trees factoring in the chance of survival which was considered poor by organizations such as Plymouth tree people and the Woodland trust as well as the council’s own natural infrastructure offic thank you thank you Mr D um my next
Speaker was to be Mr Thomas is Mr Thomas with us well as as I said earlier um all scrutineers have been supplied with the questions so they’re aware of what he may have asked had he choose to appear before us um the next question is uh Mrs
Steer would you like to come forward and ask your question hello thank you my question is if the plans can change to accommodate two trees they can be accommodated on six trees thank you thank you for your question my our final speaker is Mr gfre oh do beg your pardon would you
Like to come forward and ask a question thank you chair um Plymouth City Center company representing the interest of all the city center businesses recognizes the value importance and utmost urgency of the significant investment planned for amard way we would like to ask the scrutiny committee if you could give the scheme
Its full support for the sake of existing businesses which has suffered Financial losses due to the delays and for future investment which we regard as vital for the Regeneration of the city of the city center and of The Wider city thank you thank you for your questions we now move on to um
Presentations um oh sorry yes presentations from the leader I believe oh sorry I do beg you pay very R of me um Paul would you like to introduce the team that’s um supporting you this afternoon thank you J um U my name is Paul Barnard I’m the service director for strategic planning and
Infrastructure and for the purposes of today I’m also the SRO the senior responsible officer for the entire transforming cities fund program um within which the Armada way scheme sits I’ll ask each of the team to identify themselves um Anthony Payne is the Strategic director for Place uh Julie Parkin is the senior
Lawyer from the city council Martin ivat is the placemaking manager and project manager for the Amad way scheme uh Ellie f is head of uh public and partner relations Communications and engagement at the city council Louise Bradley is director of uh ECF who undertook the recent consultation Adam King is managing
Director of ygs environmental Consultants Lee Ferris is director and architect at Studio agor will Hudson is principal civil engineer at JB Charles parritt is the assistant chief exac at the city council Richard Banner is the transport strategy coordinator and also the TCF program manager Richard Bara is urban designer at the city
Council Nick Carter is head of Housing and regeneration also at the city council and last but by no means least um Helen trener is the project delivery officer also at the city council thank you chair thank you Paul um it’s good to know that uh every area is covered um
I’ll now move on to um presentations and would be Begin by asking the leader to present thank you uh good afternoon everyone um thank you chair I’m sorry I can’t be there in person but as um many will know I’ve uh recently been in hospital so I’m uh
Technically I’m off sick uh but uh I wouldn’t make the miss this for the world it’s such a an important day in the in the life of Plymouth city council so can I begin by thanking you and your Committee in advance for their consideration of the vast amount of material uh before you
Today um 57 pages is a lot to get through um and so if I may say so I know you personally chair have uh a dozen years or more of uh experience in scrutiny um and have considered and examined many complex policies projects and initiatives down the years um the committee and yourselves
Have an essential role in holding us as the executive to account and have every confidence uh that you’ll be able to uh help us to improve our final decision making when we come to do that next month now I appreciate that you have already undertaken a lot of work to consider the
Results of the independent consultation our suggested changes to the scheme in response to that and all the background dependencies ahead of today’s meeting and I’m very grateful for your work on this and I want to place on record my appreciation for your time in undertaking this pred decision
Scrutiny of our new Amada way scheme I’ve said all along that we want to have an open and transparent process when it comes to aada way that is why we commissioned experienced independent experts to undertake the recent consultation and engagement exercise and that very much reflects our values in the corporate plan
It’s about us as a council being Democratic taking responsibility acting with fairness and being cooperative and these are not merely words on a page but an underlying commitment by my Administration to consult listen consider and then ultimately to make decisions that are as democratically elected members We Believe are in the best long-term
Interests of Plymouth and of local people as a local government Association Peer who gives advice to other local authorities about leadership and governance I would always advocate for pred decision scrutiny on key decisions which is why I committed very early on to present them the results of the
Consultation to scrutiny ahead of any final decision by the cabinet I made it clear the consultation exercise was not a vote Vote or a referendum and we were not starting with a blank piece of paper but I’m therefore grateful for the generally positive responses we’ve had from local people and businesses on our
Scheme which uh we work very hard on when we launched the consultation and engagement on the 17th of October last year we wanted our new scheme to recapture the scale and ground of aad away to include more trees and Greenery to include a huge and exciting new destination play Village for
Families to help wildlife and nature to be water smart to improve safety for all especially women and young girls to have more places to sit to relax and to eat to include a new cycling path for people of all all abilities and have plenty of popup spaces for retail Arts culture and
Entertainment and over the past few weeks we’ve been pouring over the consultation feedback report to ensure that we carefully considered all the views that have been submitted and I can say without hesitation that we have listened we have been able to make changes that I’ve think make our
Proposals even stronger we have also it’s fair to say had to balance some quite polarized views on certain issues such as the trees and cycling but in my view the overriding message from both residents and businesses alike has been crystal clear and that’s to just get on with
It we have thought long and hard about what we think the city center needs to bring people and life back to this vital part of the city and I believe these revised proposals will play a pivotal role in supporting new investment and new development opportunities as we
Embark on a journey to reimagine our city center for the future in conclusion chair I say this the city centers of England have gone through very challenging times in the last few years our Unique city center deserves the best for the people who live and work in Plymouth right now but
Also for future generations to come yes that comes with a price tag but the details of the costs are still to be finalized and negotiated as part of the final Construction contract and I will ensure that we get value for money but I will not dumb down the design and I will
Not sell Plymouth short we must have quality if we are to attract new investment and to create great spaces for people so can I once again thank you and the committee for your deliberations today I very much look forward to receiving your recommendations at our cabinet meeting on the 5th of February
And I’m confident that you can help us to make the right decision for Plymouth so that we can indeed get on with it thank you chair and I believe that I’m now passing on with your permission to councelor Lang thank you leader councelor Lang thank you chair and I I’ll start
With a little Health caveat of my own I’m recovering from surgery on a broken leg and so if I appear a little bit fidgety or uncomfortable it’s that’s why it’s not because I don’t want to be here because I’m very pleased to be here um so following on from councelor Evan’s
Introduction I’m going to talk a bit about the consultation um we believed it was important to not start with a blank sheet of paper in order to create the proposed scheme that’s before you one of the first things we looked at was the feedback that had been given in the previous engagement
Exercises we listened and took on board previous feedback including concerns expressed about fing of any of the existing trees and we wanted to present a revised scheme that incorporated more trees and Greenery more recreational space a large play Space improved Pathways for walking and cycling and to ensure the area has a sustainable
Lifespan we were clear from the start that we wanted what we wanted from the consultation we wanted to gain a deeper understanding of the aspirations of residents businesses and other stakeholders regarding our M way we wanted to to ensure a scheme is delivered that meets the long-term needs
Of people who work live shop eat play and travel through it to engage on what has been revised and offer true scope for influence to balance and weigh views so no one group or individual has disproportionate influence engage with a wider set of stakeholders reaching those not previously engaged
Our approach to engagement had to be legally robust and to consider the Gunning principles the localism ACT 2011 the equalities act plymouth’s own statement of community involvement and therefore we decided to work with an independent consultation and engagement specialist ECF they have vast experience in this field to offer public
Reassurance in the approach and a clear statement that the process would be different to what happened before so I’m going to talk a little bit about the approach Louise from ECF will go through that in a bit more detail and the findings but I want to run through
Some of the things we did to try to hear from as many people as possible as you know the six- week consultation was called let’s talk our M away the proposals and information was shared and feedback was gathered in the following ways a dedicated project website email and phone number and
Throughout the consultation that were available throughout the consultation there were 24,000 visitors to the site and one 1,568 subscribers a survey was hosted online in hard copy and easy read format there were onetoone interviews news with stakeholders four workshops with under represented groups including older people parents and families those with
Disabilities and young people the submission of formal written responses from groups and organizations those without access to the internet could also feedback through a dedicated phone number as well as through a hard copy survey transcrip transcripts and feedback from interviews workshops and copies of the written responses are all available in the
Report to ensure that as many people as possible knew about the consultation and how to have their say a robust publicity plan was developed which included the following social media posts by Plymouth city council and digital advertising and as the ECF report highlights there were significant views of these including
Over 2.2 million impressions in the paid for advertising campaign emails to over 250 stakeholder contacts made up of key businesses and organizations including environmental groups encourag them to publicize via their networks and on their own channels there were briefings with stakeholders the local MP and counsellors there were vinyls on
Hoardings along Armada way there were press releases and video sharing including weekly updates and videos focusing on different areas of the proposals including a sub scheme explainer the history of arway the cultural value of regenerating arm madaway as well hard copy materials in the library indoor market and the theater
Royal over 15,000 postcards were distributed to businesses schools wellbeing centers residential areas shopping centers and to people along omada way further detail on all of this is included in the report myself and other cabinet members along with Council officers work closely with ECF throughout the consultation to
Help to answer any questions and provide clarifications and additional information for any FAQs over 1, 153 people completed the survey and that information along with the feedback from the workshops interviews and other submissions has been evaluated and that’s what’s presented in the report in front of you I’m now going
To hand over to Louise Bradley from ECF to run through a bit more about the approach and the findings in the consultation thank you chair thank you Jama thank thank you thank you councelor Al um we got the presentation okay there we go yeah okay okay I think you’ll have to move it
Forward oh there they go yeah okay technology um okay so um the consultation ran from s for six weeks from the 17th of October to the 28th of November and who took part I’ll just quickly go over this because it’s already been covered by counselor line
Uh but there were 153 responses to the survey that includes 69 paper copy surveys uh five easy read surveys were completed over 40 were distributed to um certain groups um nine stakeholder interviews were completed they were offered to over 40 different stakeholders uh the interviews that were completed were with the Chamber of
Commerce environment Plymouth Luke paard mp uh the market Traders Association Plymouth City Center Company Plymouth Civic Society Plymouth cycling campaign Plymouth tree people the theater Royal Plymouth and a representative from straw attended but chose not to feedback um there were 16 full written responses in total which are um
Summarized within the main body of the report and then um shown in full in the appendices um around 50 different respondents gave feedback through email and through the phone number uh the phone number is important because those that are not digitally Savvy could read information on the scheme on the hoing
Things on our mod way and feedback either through a hard copy survey or by phone and we conducted four workshops with um traditionally under represented groups so that included older people people with disabilities and younger people they were aged 13 to 17 we also attended two different play groups to speak to
Parents in terms of the survey demographics um it shows that virtually all were residents of Plymouth um there was a slightly older slant in terms of the age of respondence to the consultation um and it isn’t stated there but actually around 75% didn’t have children aged 17 or younger within their
Households um most respondents were female which is quite often the case within um consultations um and um majority didn’t have a health problem or disability and most identified as white in terms of eity I think what’s important to note on the approach is that obviously the main
Mechanism to feedback was the survey um it was a range of quantitative and qualitative questions that’s closed and open text questions um people had the opportunity to feedback through open text questions especially if they didn’t agree with any of the closed text options um on all of the closed text
Options there was another as well which people could choose and then State their own option which people did and that’s clearly stated within the consultation reports um we also took the decision within just less than a week into the consultation to take away the force requirement to um answer all closed
Questions so it gave people a lot more freedom to complete the survey and we accepted incomplete surveys and analyzed them just the same as all the others um the survey questions uh asked for feedback on the designed elements of the proposed scheme and we tried to split it into sort of digestible chunks
So people could understand the different D um design elements of the scheme and they could feedback um any ideas or concerns they had as well throughout um all the open text questions were then coded for themes and you’ll see within the body of the report there are thematic tables so that we can
See how many times those themes emerge um the online survey was hosted on the project website but there were also hard copy um options available at the central library and available on request either by phone number email or through um stakeholder groups um an easy read and translated version was also available on
Request in terms of the workshops we targeted those groups um to try and make sure we could reach out to those that might not um be as represented in survey um and um we held as I’ve said on one interviews with high priority um organizations and groups and they were
Also encouraged to submit a full full written response um an interview guide was followed for any of the onetoone interviews so that we could gather feedback around nature and Greenery the cycle path Etc in the play Village but they could also feedback on anything else they wanted and those interviews
Were recorded through the transcription um ability of Microsoft teams full written responses have obviously been recorded and um and included in the report and also as I’ve said we received um um feedback through the email and phone number so in terms of the main findings the first question was around nature and
Greenery and you can see that overwhelmingly people wanted Amad way to be a green space with tree shrubs and wild flowers um that was followed by being climate resilient and being able to deal with the city centers rain water smartly um then by keeping as many existing trees as possible the other
There that you you can see as 181 responses was mainly people saying that they wanted to keep all existing trees in other words they didn’t agree with translocation um and they felt it was really important that those trees were there to give canopy cover and shade when asked about translocation
Which was an open text question so people could respond however they wished um it was really quite um balanced actually between those that prefer to keep all existing trees and were really worried about the Imp ation of translocation and the success rate of survival with those that were happy for
The trees to be removed if deemed necessary and there were a small subgroup that felt that whole process was a waste of money but overall it was balance and I say balance because it’s not um a consensus building exercise but in terms of themes the number of themes are quite balanced on both
Sides um written responses from oh actually sorry I’m jumping ahead those that um said were happy for the trees to be moved if necessary um wanted it to be done with um careful conjunction with experts and a maintenance plan um and some suggested that the trees if if they
Didn’t survive then other mature trees would be planted in their place written responses from some groups felt that translocation wasn’t necessary and that the cycle path could be rooted around the trees and that um insufficient evidence have been presented to um show there was a need to move the trees to
Enable the suds um requests were made for a technical plan of the suds to show the need for the removal of the trees some also stated that a previous pledge to not translocate any trees have been renamed there were um some groups um expert groups so namely the environment
Agency in Southwest water felt that SS was essential to manage the city Center’s Rin water and deal with any potential flooding incidents um tree canopy uh obviously was put forward as a key theme in terms of being needed within an urban environment um it was also requested that
Um that it should be taken uh planting should be taken into account especially for pollinators and Wildlife so could edible plants be included um some tree species were deemed unsuitable and there were others suggested um namely the Tree of Life came through as a as a tree that was
Unsuitable within the scheme um there was a request to reduce the amount of hard and gray space as well and consider uh biodiversity and underplanting and there were requests for greater clarification on the uh biodiversity net gain calculations and how um the scheme in terms of Nature and Greenery was going
To be maintain long term and what funding would be in place we now move on to the play Village um it was a high proportion of those um asked the first question on the play Village in terms of what their relationship would be with it stated they weren’t interested in it and
Wouldn’t use it however it should be noted that as I’ve said before 75% of the people that responded to the consultation do not have children um and are also an older demographic their feedback is still taken into account which I’ll come on to in terms of their concerns but those
That said they would use it mainly stated that’s because they were parents of young children or they were grandparents or the business Community felt that it would attract more people into the city center um those that would use it also felt it would give them a place to rest
With their children um and would increase well time the most important aspects that came through quite clearly from parents was that they would want seating near to any equipment they’d want it to C uh cater for a diverse range of abilities they talked about disability access quite a lot um that it
Would use as many natural materials as possible and would give clear visibility so if for instance they had CH they were with children in the enclosed toddler play area they could see six or four year old children in another area and be able to see what they were doing there
Was a suggestion that the council speaks to make space for girls so that it could be designed with the way girls play in mind because it’s very different to how boys play quite often and that physical and mental disabilities would be considered in the design key concerns
That came through were was that it was too large um so that was for people who you know felt that they didn’t want to play Village um saying that they felt the size would make it difficult to maintain or could be intrusive for those that didn’t want that in the
Area also considering um how antisocial Behavior would be addressed in the play Village especially in sheltered spaces came up as a concern and would there be any provision for teenagers not necessarily in the play Village but just near it or around it in terms of popup spaces um what came
Through was a diverse range of um needs for live music creative performances pop-up stores for Foods maybe an EXT mention to uh flavor Fest um there were asks that um high quality Traders should be encouraged but also make provision for the local regular favorites um and the creative sector specifically said
They would want to work closely with the council um on the implementation aspects of the popup spaces to ensure that lighting power uh the ability to erect temporary structures quickly um could happen and the temporary structures part was important to shelter from the Sun and Shelter From The Rain um considering
Street art installations and and Heritage was also put forward and think about the impact on walls and seating from skateboarders or parkour users um in terms of solar pan uh canopies flexible spaces and seating um overall people were supportive of the idea of solar canopies and would use
Them for sheltered seating bik cracks or popup stools um flexible spaces they felt that there would be places that would just sit eat and relax it was picnic K was mentioned quite a lot and they’d like to see a bit more lawn on that basis rather than um just hard gray
Space um in terms of seating design sheltered seating seating with tables disability access seating in the play area high backs and armrest especially for older people and more benches and informal style of seating came forward um there was also a request to keep the flag blocks that are currently around the sunnd
Dial in terms of the cycle path a Mobility Hub um most said that they would um welcome a cycle path because they walk however also a lot said they wouldn’t use a cycle path um those that represented cyclists and the free text um responses that came through in
Regards to the psychopath their main concerns were um its width as they felt may be insufficient passing space for cyclists going in different directions uh safety factors where it crosses pedestrian paths and how that would work um how what clear way marking and education of the use of the cycle paath
Will be put in place concerns about it being misused by ebike Riders and especially delivery Riders because they cycle at speed up and down on mod way um Clear Sight lines around any planting or infrastructure the shape of the bends may be unsuitable for recumbent Cycles
Or other types of bikes and clear rights of way and how to merge at different points where it intersects um there was a desire for more bike storage as well throughout made of durable materials lighting and CCTV um lighting was welcomed um but there was consideration to be asked for light
Pollution for residents and Wildlife um the um the security by Design uh code was um put forward by the design out crime officer um it was said stated that maintenance should be essential um CCTV would help address antisocial Behavior which was seen as a benefit um and hopefully improve CCTV in
Li could improve the nighttime economy make people feel less vulnerable um and also it would be crucial that any sheltered spaces would be monitored to deter loitering or vagrance disabilities um in particular there were some um suggestions that came through throughout so um to consider appropriate service surfacing for people
With uh wheelchairs or Mobility or Vision issues um obviously the inclusion of appropriate lighting for those are sensitive to hard lights disability toilets and change facilities for adults and children with disabilities separating the psychopath and pedestrian walkway to improve um safety for people with disabilities and
When it comes to seating and chairs that you can fit wheelchairs underneath and then maintenance construction and other there were a list of statements given at the end of the survey that people could tick if they agreed with them um out of those statements um 926 respondents chose that
They they felt the scheme would make the city center more welcoming 871 felt that it would make it Greener space and 748 stated that it would help um businesses attract more customers um throughout the openex comments some of the key concerns that came through was maintenance plan and
What ring fence budget would be put in place concerns again came through about vandalism litter antisocial behavior and how that would all be managed um there were concerns around construction timelines and phasing um especially from the business communities they were worried um about potential loss of earnings and how difficult is
Getting delivered is in and wondering how that would all be phased along our M way there were quests as well as maintenance plan for an aricultural method statement and a detailed tree plan for translocation and also um it was suggested that the council should work with groups um throughout the
Implementation phase and reach out to landlords and that’s everything thank you thank you for that very thorough representation of uh consultation which obviously plays a huge part in this report so uh it was good to hear a full report on it I now move on to councelor Mark
Ker thank you chair I will briefly cover the transport aspects of the omada way scheme members May well recall that we were awarded a total of 58.8 million grant funding for the Plymouth transforming cities fund program in 2020 the total program comprises 31 projects amounting to 117.1 million pound investment in
Plymouth these projects were originally to be completed by March 2023 the primary outcomes we are seeking to deliver from the TCF program as a whole are a step change in local public and sustainable transport connectivity improved access to jobs reduced congestion improved air quality and delivery of housing Amad away is one
Of the 14 trance 2 projects that make up the Plymouth TCF program from a TCF perspective the primary benefits for the delivery of the scheme are as follows a new cycle path to do to be provided to cater for cyclists of all abilities to a standard that Del delivers a step change
In sustainable connectivity quality infrastructure that encourages more people to walk to cycle and to shop locally which will reduce congestion reduce our carbon footprint and improve air quality when combined with other projects and initiatives for the city this project supports a step change in local public transport connectivity with
Improved access to jobs investment in our public realm directly supports our ambition to bring sustain substantial amounts of new residential development and therefore crucially more footful into our city a total of just over 4 million of transforming City’s fund Grant is being put into the Amar Way project to achieve these
Outcomes following a review of all TCF programs across the country by the government alongside a new National Assurance process the department for transport have advised that TCF funding now needs to be spent by March 2025 we have looked very carefully at the responses we have received to the
Consultation in this regard I draw members attention to paragraphs 9.29 through to 9.32 on pages 79 and 80 of your papers it has always been the case that there would be a cycle route as part of these M away proposals that is why the scheme is receiving money from the transforming
Cities Fund in order to meet the requirements of the department for transport the cycop path has to meet the detailed guidance set out in their ltn 120 throughout the development of this complex scheme we have sought the views and input from a wide range of Stak coders and Industry experts we believe
That the scheme we originally consulted upon and the proposed final scheme meets the ltn 120 design standards this has been independently verified by Acom an international transport consultant who assessed the proposed scheme and found it passed the ltn 120 cycling level of service assessment this then was cor corroborated by active travel England
The government’s executive agency responsible for walking and cycling in England who also assessed the scheme having said that we have carefully considered the detailed design comments from the plumo cycling campaign who will continue to work with and on this project and other cycling schemes across the city in response we are
Making four specific changes to the cycle route to reflect their comments and the com comments of others regarding potential cyclists and pedestrian conflicts these changes four five six and s on page 90 of your packs this further improves the cycle rout design assesses many of the concerns raised in the
Consultation while ensuring that the scheme still meets the ltn 120 design criteria the cycle route will now be more clearly delineated by removing two East West pedestrian routs at the point of interaction with the diagonal sections of cycle way this will reduce further the opportunities for pedestrian and cyclist conflict
We’ve been working with sustrans on very detailed aspects of the design to incorporate specific way marking totems and signage in the paving itself to better emphasize the cycling route finally we will be adding further cycle racks throughout a mod way in direct response to to suggestions from the consultation in conclusion chair the
Amway scheme is a key component of our TCF program and will provide significant sustainable transport benefits in relation to enhanced walking and cycling infrastructure in the City Center thank you chair thank you Mark um I we know move on to um our our final presentation from uh Tom who I know’s
Been living with this report for some time over to you Tom thank you chair um as Council Evans has already set out the scheme that was published for a m away in October was substantially different to the previous proposals we spent a lot of time looking
At what people had already said and came up with a new plan that incorporated the vast majority of the original Amway trees that scheme sought to balance various design priorities was introducing existing and exciting future facing elements such as the play Village and the solar canopies our respon to the
Comments made during the consultation on both TR and Greenery topics is set out in detail on pages 71 to 75 of your packs it’s fair to say that we had to consider many polarized views about the trees in the end we strove for a balanced compromise to achieve all of the scheme’s
Objectives our new scheme will deliver 202 trees compared to the 153 that existed before crucially these trees will be the right trees of the right species in the right place in accordance with our plan for trees the additional trees won’t be saplings they will be at
Least 3.5 to 8 m tall at the time of planting they will be planted in well prepared ground they can thrive in not postwar Rubble every tree matters whether that’s the new ones going in or the ones already there we have looked once again at every single one of the
Six trees we initially proposed for translocation we have changed the design where we can and concluded that we can retain two further trees bringing the total to 39 existing trees within the new design the two additional trees to be retained are the coxb born which is
Labeled as Tree t7 in your packs and the white beam tree t118 this now means that we only need to translocate four trees understandably we have been asked why we can’t incorporate those four final trees into the design I can’t stress this enough we’ve really tried and that was very much our starting
Point the simple answer is that they would be significantly impacted by the construction of the sustainable drainage Network which is proposed to help alleviate flooding issues in the city and remove surface water from the combined sewer keeping the trees in place would negatively impact the overall effectiveness of the sud system meaning
That attenuation volumes would be reduced and therefore increase the over overall volume of surface water entering the wider drainage Network I care deeply about trees but I care deeply about water quality and Plymouth sound too we’ve set out more detailed reasoning on this issue clearly and transparently in
Pages 51 to 54 of your packs in light of helpful comments from Food Plymouth and other organizations we’ve reviewed again the range of new tree species and made several changes I’m grateful for the time that environmental groups have spent on thoughtful feedback on this complex issue for the full details on tree
Selection please refer to Pages 50 and 51 in the pack in the right hand column you will see the in-depth consideration that has been given to the biodiversity benefits of trees whether that’s Maple Leaves love tree flowers and cherry blossoms for attracting pollinators or Juneberry berries Alder cones and
Calorie pear which can be a food source for birds nature is at the heart of our scheme the final scheme design includes new habitats for Amad way underplanting beneath the trees Reed beds in the Stream and large new areas of wild flowers we’re planning to incorporate
Bird and bat boxes as well as bee and Bug totems created from the trunks of the previously felled trees overall we aspire to achieving a biodiversity net gain of approximately 20% when the project is completed meaning meaning it will become a better habitat for wildlife than before whilst I fully
Appreciate that some will always be disappointed by the translocation of the four trees it’s important not to lose sight of The Wider environmental benefits this scheme will achieve they’ve been evaluated and compiled for the first time in a detailed climate impact assessment by this Administration so that involves improved water quality
And irrigation through the sud scheme planting for increased biodiversity encouraging active travel through a new cycle path generating renewable energy through the solar canies and reusing large amounts of materials to reduce embodied carbon chair I now turn to the 10 changes we are proposing to our scheme in response to comments made
During the consultation these are set out on pages 90 and 91 of your packs as councelor Lang has already covered our cabinet wanted a genuine consultation where people’s views were not just listened to but taken on board where possible changes 1 2 and three relate to the retention of two extra trees
Widening the diversity of tree species selection and increasing the amount of accessible Green Space changes four five six and seven refer to cycle path and bike storage improvements as councilor Koka has already outlined lastly changes 8 9 and 10 provide for the inclusion of drinking water stations increased
Seating and a fibrillator on aad way these were all constructive ideas that people suggested as other comments in the in the consultation we warmly welcome the idea of somewhere to refill bottles and I hope it will reduce single use Plastics and City Center litter also as a dad with a toddler myself I
Appreciated the need for additional seating near the play Village for safer supervision these are all sensible constructive ideas directly from local residents that we promptly Incorporated in conclusion chair whilst the journey has not always been a straightforward one we believe this new Amad scheme will deliver an exciting transformation of
The city center that residents and families Shoppers and tourists alike will value for decades to come it is one of the largest most ambitious City Center public realm projects in this country we need a shared drive to make our city center the best it can be both environmentally and economically we have
Listened to the public and made those further 10 changes which we think improves the overall design today we will gratefully listen to further feedback from your cross Party Committee then the time will soon come to move forward and deliver this major investment for our city chair myself cabinet colleagues and Council officers
Look forward to answering your committee’s questions thank you thank thank you um all those presentations were very um informative and I’m sure they help the committee and I’ll now open it up to questions but it it might be helpful if we theme the questions around the individual parts
And um it might be um the consultation might be a good place to start but I’m in the hands of the committee any questions will obviously be answered Co looko I’m sorry that’s quite all right yes this is on procedure main is only an observation but first can I
Thank E c f and Louise for all the hard work and all the council officers for those tremendous reports we are very grateful in terms of clarity after the scrutiny process today um we have recommendations before us the committee no doubt will make further recommendations or amendments then it
Goes to cabinet on the 5th of February I believe then cabinet will sign us off on the 19th of February will this go to full Council for final sign off please no is a decision of the cabinet so it would remain with the cabinet supplementary of course could you please
Explain why the previous scheme went to full went to full Council in January last year and not this one I’ll pass it on to Ross uh through you chair um the agenda right at January in uh Council in January was referenced petition which is why it was at count IL
Um the decision on a scheme is an executive function it’s not a function of council so therefore it’s not within the remit of council to be able to sign off that decision it it’ss only with cabinet oh um Alison Bronson hello there we are all sorry about that um bio diversity has been
Mentioned quite a lot but I’m actually interested in um neurodiversity um going through this kind of pack um I understand that disability has been mentioned kind of across it rather in one kind of um swell swoop essentially um can I ask what is being done for the newer diverse community
Um I’m happy to start by um answering that because some of that relates to um part of my portfolio so um it’s important to stress that um disabilities of of various types have been um considered as part of um different aspects of this scheme um whether that’s to do with accessible Green Space
Whether that’s to do with seating um and whether that’s to do with relationship with cyclists as well um but you asked specifically about neurod Divergence um and that’s something that we’ve explored um with regards to the play Village um so we’re very um aware that um different
Children um of of various abilities um play in different ways um and that also applies to to ages as well um so what we’ve um tried to do is to make sure that there is play equipment um which is accessible for for different um types of
Children um and there’s also an area of the play Village um which has been um designed specifically around um sensory benefits um which we hope will be of particular interest as well um don’t know if anybody wanted to give other examples too hello excuse me uh just to add a couple
Of points it’s about the planting as well in terms of color scent and sensory areas that we have throughout the scheme uh in particular the play equipment there’s one green zone that’s part of the play area and it’s located away from the noisy elements of where the play
Area has been designed so it’s particularly designed with neurod Divergent children in play at the Forefront and the player equipment that has been specially selected are items that create sound create movement uh in particular for for certain needs thank you happy and I’ll Now call on um
Allison uh thank you uh Ian this is about um Sou if I can pursue that please um Mr Kilroy at the beginning expressed some concerns about calculations on runoff for the future um I’m sure there were similar problems that Mr Basel jet was struggling with when he he built Big SE
Around around London um however having read the report it does appear to me that um a great deal of thought on future capacity has been put in to this um looking at figures for rainfall um over a number of decades and and the projections going forward this clearly should um
Improve reduce the number of events that of water actually discharging um from the sewers could could um somebody over there please address Mr Kilroy’s question about the assessment Rec capacity in the future so so the sustainable Urban drainage system is a really important part of of the scheme um that’s true of
Our scheme and that was is true of the previous one um the reason why it’s so important um is it’s one of the issues which which many of us hear from from residents and are very passionate about being next to to Plymouth sound um so
Part of that is to do with um water quality issues um which come from a very outdated combined sewage system um which gets which overflows in in moments of extreme rainfall um which because of the the realities of the climate emergency those those extrem weather events are happening more and more frequently as
We’ve seen again with with recent storms the other aspect of that as well is um flooding resilience um because of the um significant amount um of hard Landscaping in the city center when those storm events happen um the water is is moving across those hard surfaces
So the way in which this um s system has been designed is to be able to accommodate a huge amount of of rainfall um and look ahead um towards the the likely Direction um of what that that rainfall might look like in the future as well um we’ve also tried to
Incorporate other aspects as part of that um so making sure that water is being used to irrigate the trees um and also making sure that the the solar um canopies which are added as part of this new design um will help to um cover a significant proportion of the new
Electricity from that as well don’t know if Will wanted to add any more on that uh I don’t know whether there’s much more to add to that um as you say the the the system is designed for the one in a 100 Year return event with a 40% increase allowance for climate
Change as we know there is a climate emergency and we have to design that so capacity has been designed within the system we’ve Incorporated uh measures such as rain Gardens which help uh filter the water improve water quality because Suds is not just about um reducing the amount of water it’s
Impr it’s about improving water quality reducing the quantity of water that enters into the sewer system and also improving biodiversity and um immedi space which obviously we are working with on this on this scheme um in terms of calculations we are at a stage where we’re developing the calculations obviously detailed calculations were
Carried out on the previous scheme and the new scheme is at a stage where we are um detailing those up as we speak um and so we know that there is capacity and the system is being designed to ensure there is capacity is is the other
Way to look at it um but yeah I don’t think there’s anything else to add from perspective thanks could I could I ask a supplementary based on that please CH of course um very interesting obviously to read about the the Water Gardens and various other measures in in the
Document I don’t think I picked up anything about the the surface materials um whether or not they would in in Patches at least be more of a more porous material which would allow Waters to sink through rather than just simply sit on the surface yes of course um yeah perable
Surfacing is proposed throughout the scheme um where appropriate there’s obviously areas where vehicle traffic suggests that it’s not suitable um but where we can in cooperation with with Lee in terms of the the specification of the hard Landscaping we are using permeable surfacing there’s also an increase in in um soft landscape areas
That we can utilize as drainage areas and the rain Gardens themselves so rather than rain water landing on hard surfaces and draining straight into gullies which then go direct into the sewer the Rainwater will land on the hard surfaces but drain off into rain Gardens into soft Landscaping which the
Water then actually in smaller rainfall events may not even enter the sewer because it will be used by the planting um so we are maximizing that as where we can next I’ve got um CER Gilmore thank you chair um I’ve got a question they’re both about Finance one’s about
Cost and one is about potential income so just to warn everybody um so I’m thinking about the the cost of this I’ve had residents already expressed to me won’t be any surprise sorry car Gilmer could you move Mike a little bit closer yeah thinking about the cost of the
Projects I’ve had residents Express to me I’m sure it won’t be any surprise that um the 37 million is is seed as a very big number um I can’t see anything here and I may be missing it about cost overruns um big Civil Works like this tend to go over often
Um that may be a misunderstanding on my part that may be a perception um apart from a brief statement at the bottom of page eight I’m not seeing anything about contingency plans or where additional money will come from if there is an overrun could I get reassurance on that
Please and then I’ll come to my part two thank you chair you okay for me to respond thank you so thank you uh councelor Gilmore if um in headline terms the costs and the increases associated with the project can be put under about five different categories um and I’ll I’ll just give
You the headlines and then or if you want further detail I can go into that um firstly over the last 12 months construction inflation cost has been running nationally between 15 and 20% on all construction projects in the UK and certain elements um actually are going above
20% um that’s on the back of issues such as uh unfortunate world affairs such as the Ukraine war Gaza and also still after math of things like brexit are still having an impact on Supply chains um that brings in uh an inflationary element of about three to
Three and a half million pounds in our estimates as our cost Consultants have currently set out so that’s one big chunk um scope enhancements you’ve heard throughout all the presentations uh today there’s been significant change in scope uh and enhancements across the whole of the scheme uh the larger
Playground the solar panels uh additional seating additional CCTV coverage uh additional below Ground Engineering Works uh and so on and additional Jets water jets in the scheme and play areas and so on um the scope enhancements are currently estimated at 4.7 million pound um preliminary works that have already been undertaken including um
Site management costs design changes and and also the program lengthening of the scheme it will take longer to deliver than initially uh estimated will add cost you mention contingency there is a there is an element in there actually around the risk elements of this which is actually the contingency element you
Could use either term to to be honest and we’ve set aside a significant amount of risk money um I can go into the detail of that a bit later but that risk money sits around uh the potential for contamination it’s uh we know there were former industrial
Works in this part of town many many uh years ago um voids uh there’s a concrete Clint which was put down postwar which we are not sure of the depth and the the state of it and a number of other unknowns um you’ll have seen unfortunately through the works that
Have taken place in Oldtown in new George Street significant um underground activity and underground elements were identified once work started and so all those risks have been factored in um we’ve also got additional development costs both internal and external Staffing costs uh due to the length and and the overrun of the
Project and then finally there’s some other costs which are uh obviously we’ve got additional legal costs which are being borne by the project both direct and indirect Associated uh with the scheme and then we got Associated costs which have been aligned to uh standown to prolong prolongation of of the
Contract um contract management inflation and so on and when you put all that together uh unfortunately the numbers increased significantly um what we will be doing as part of the next stage and once we’ve got the final design we’ll be entering into detail contract negotiations and value engineering exercises through our
Cost Consultants working directly with Morgan Syle to look to reduce those costs I think it’s fair to say that in terms of the numbers we’ve put forward to scrutiny we’ve gone to we’ve tried to include every potential eventuality and look to try and reduce those costs as we
Go through further work once we’ve got the final design approved thank You thank you I have a supplementary I do have a supplementary it’s coming from a different direction this time there’s a small reference a couple of times to uh tourism and I wonder if based on experience of similar schemes in other cities does something like this improve
Tourism could we expect to see a boost and do we have any idea what that might look like specifically in relation to tourism I can’t give you a direct answer but I can give you anecdotal uh evidence of investment in public realm in other parts of the country acts as an initial
Phase for Levering in further investment into spaces and places um I’ve been involved in many public realm schemes uh throughout a number of years in other parts of the country and it was used in those places to lever in that additional public and private sector investment and in consultation and discussions we’re
Having with a number of national agencies the fact that the city council is prepared to put this upfront investment into the public spaces and the public realm wellbeing of our city center is an encouragement to them to bring their money forward for future schemes and we hope on the back of that
The private sector to come alongside as well um what it will hopefully also do is lead to increased footfall in the city center and that increased footfall will lead to a wider uh re benefit for the retail sector and other sectors that we hope to attract and change the city
Center from a a monal use current retail space to a multiple use space for for residents um businesses and visitors alike chair if I could just add that the destination Plymouth homes England and as you heard earlier the cities and Company have all indicated that investment in public realm uh as we see
From other major English cities uh investment uh uh can and should generate additional footfall which obviously will support um the uh the tourist industry and uh some representations that effect have been made in the past have you finished thank you um I now move on to um my voice chair councelor
Sumon thank you counselor um I’m not 100% sure who this is directed to I think as SRO Paul it’s to yourself it’s in relation to the recommendations um on pages six and seven specifically number eight uh and I’m looking at the coordination and monitoring of all existing public Realms Revenue maintenance and
Budgets um obviously this will come under the orices of the uh required City Center public realm board which is going to be set up and I notice it’s from city city council departments obviously City Center company obviously but I would like to recommend that uh the elected counselors who collectively cross party
Represent every resident in this city to be incorporated uh as um as a portion on the public realm board uh thank you for the question yes uh the uh and I’m happy to speak about uh maintenance in more detail later um should members want to raise that point
Um which came out from the consultation but yes recommendation 8 is specifically to create a city center public realm board um which would uh as an instruction to uh the Strategic director for place to uh to put put in place arrangements to better coordinate um public realm um works in the city center
Uh and as you would have gather we’ve not yet specified the uh membership of that so if it was the view of the uh of the scrutiny panel that they wish to make a recommendation as to uh the membership of that um obviously that would be something for the cabinet to
Consider in due course um it may well be that for example other parties like the police for instance might also be part of of that board uh in the future so um obviously a matter for for the uh for this committee to decide if they wish to make that a
Recommendation supplementary please um the original estimate from the past scheme was around about 14 million and we’re looking to do another 22 million um can you tell me where the additional money is coming from is it capital from the local taxpayers money thank you well just just to make the point
That um the 14 million which was the revised budget that was in the capital program was a budget figure not a tendered cost figure and there’s an obviously important distinction there because the scheme the previous scheme had not got to that point um in terms of bringing forward a tendered cost figure
Um uh in Rel as as the recommendations make clear the uh additional funding um is to come from the um existing um Capital program within the existing envelope so clearly a phasing and prioritization exercise would need to occur but what I can also say is that we will continue um as we as
We always do with these projects to look at other sources of income um for the project um as we as we move forward to finalizing those costs because clearly those costs have yet to be finalized we’ve yet to conclude the uh the tender process and we’ve yet to agree an actual
Contract for a final scheme obviously subject to cabinet’s decision on the 14th of February I hope that helps Anthony wants to add a think thank you just for information uh next I’ve got councel Partridge we sure I’ll call in a minute then councel mlay and then councel CER
Partridge thank you chair um again I’m not sure what who this is aimed at but wrapped up within um your suds document currently page 43 if people want to reference it there are some ongoing costs to maintenance um while I haven’t seen much of a plan there is a plan here um there
Is a mention of UV lights um uh solar panels uh there’s going to be a pump there to pump water back up because it’s gravity Fed so it’s going to drop down um the equipment that’s being fitted or proposed is is that off the shelf that’s commercially available
Or like the pumps that were fitted for the now defunct water course five or six years down the line is the council going to find itself with a multi multi 100,000 pound bill for something that we can no longer maintain or afford my question wrapped up in that
I guess is this going to present value for money for the taxpayer going forward if it’s going to come out the capital budget or indeed is it cheap enough to come out of the normal maintenance budgets for this city thank you chair for you chair um thank you
Councelor Partridge um totally um valid question and I can quite understand um why you’re asking it so um one of the things which um came up very clearly um from the consultation exercise um was a healthy dose of skepticism amongst residents around maintenance and and I
Can quite appreciate that so um one of the things um that we’ve been talking about length as part of our longer term planning of this um is a very clear maintenance plan um which outlines um the funding and management of maintenance for the next five years and
Which partly relates to some of the aspects we discussed earlier the sustainable Urban change scheme has been considered as part of that um Martin did you want to add anything more on that yeah it’s um it just referen to your to the previous water course as you as you mentioned there counselor um
Obviously that was switched off more than 15 years ago and that was a very complex um piece of equipment with multiple pumps and it had many grills and um different chambers of which litter and the like used to get trapped in so a really key um key part of the
Design for the new scheme is that is the water course element the suds element is as low maintenance as possible in terms of reducing the number of those elements like traps and grills um that require daily checking or you know especially during the winter and when when Leaf Lis
Is is falling um but uh yeah as I said we’ve been clear that we need it to be as low maintenance as possible we’re working with um a specialist water feature manufacturer who have done a lot of nationally very significant uh water feature projects um and and they will
Form part of the five-year initial um maintenance program so they’ll be taking over that that during that 5year period to make sure that everything that is replace that needs replacing um and um as we’ll be checking as part of the tender process in terms of the actual
Equipment itself as you can imagine a lot of the pumps have come on quite significantly since the mid 80s when the original stream was put in so they were a lot more easy to maintain um the previous system was based on pumps being in very large tanks that you used to
Have to climb down into um these will be totally separate so that they’ll be much more easy to access and maintain so I think it’s it’s a point that yeah we we’ll make sure if we to tender process that we have all that information ready may I have a supplementary
Chair thank you for that detailed answer um I appreciate the information um I guess going forward outside that fiveyear plan um for that that when we tender we go to the most cost effective company that can maintain our infrastructure um other than that I must give credit a bit of credit towards what
What is here um regarding the SS plan I I really do quite like it thank you thank you chair right and my next speaker is carish MC thank you chair um I want to start off by thanking all of the cabinet officers sorry all the cabinet officers consultants and everyone who has been
Involved in preparing for today it is a huge amount of work and I’ve heard some of it was carried out on Christmas Day and boxing day so thank you for spending that time to put this together for us it has been a delight to go through all of
It um I do also want to Echo councelor Evans earlier statement we do deserve a first class City Center and it’s really important that we’re doing the work to get there um for benefits for nature residents businesses and to ensure it’s fit for future residential use I also
Recognize this plan is more ambitious and comes with a range of new features that ambition comes with additional cost so this question is based around Finance um appreciating the considerations uh to commercially sensitive information why haven’t this committee been furnished with the financial details in order to allow us to sufficiently and adequately
Scrutinize this scheme will cabinet receive this full information before their decision is made uh and also with money is now coming uh from the climate change resilience fund amongst others what impact does this have on projects across the city um if if May I’ll start with the climate emergency investment fund that
You’ referred to and then um I’ll leave um director of place to to explore their financing in a little bit more detail so um the solar panel canopy um was a new element of the scheme um which wasn’t um put forward under the previous administration um it’s really important
To us as a Cabinet um to incorporate renewable energy um as part of this um not only just to cover the the additional electricity need of the sustainable Urban drainage system but also to make a very clear message of putting um very visible canopies right
At the heart of our city center if we’re going to encourage more residents and businesses to be um considering renewable energy I hope that will um Inspire some of that behavior change in terms of the financing of it um that particular aspect um is purely a renewable energy project um and so we
Thought it would be appropriate to do within um the the remit of the climate emergency investment fund um as you’ll remember um those of you who also sit on the budget scrutiny panel um we made the decision ision um this year to increase the investment going into that um after
It had previously been cut um slightly under the previous administration um increasing the ratchet for that um which has allowed us um some added flexibility for additional projects to come directly from that particular fund um Anthony did you want to have anything else to say around the word Paul thanks on the
Climate investment uh fund uh clearly there are other projects that we’re still uh confident we can bring forward and those have been discussed with um councelor Tom Bri Del recently so I’m confident that other initiatives that support the Net Zero action plan will still be able to take be taken forward
Um in addition to support for that uh um the inclusion of solar panels as part of the funding mix for a m away in relation to your first question clearly that’s been one of the difficulties in presenting um the report both to scrutiny and uh and it may well be the
Case um to cabinet in the sense that we have yet to get the final detail costings um that have been uh and a detailed cost report from our cost consultants and uh clearly we will also enter into a negotiation with the with the contractor um to finalize uh the
Contract cost before we sign that contract so what we’ve in essence presented is is as as the Strategic director indicated uh previously the range of additional pressures that have come to bear on this project and I would say every single project in the capital program given the inflationary pressures and the
Uncertainty in which contractors are operating at the moment they are pricing in significant amounts of risk uh and of course um ultimately that will rise uh raise the the overall cost of projects uh and it may well be the case that that that projects go to a certain level that
They’re no longer affordable or value for money which is why I suspect the leader mentioned the value for money point in his in his opening remarks so we will clearly present the um the over over all figures when we’re able to to do that um uh but we wanted to be open
And transparent in terms of the scale of the figures now um as opposed to the budget provision that I mentioned earlier that had been the subject of the previous scheme and you’ve got you’ve got the headlines of that in the in the report itself any supplementary thank you I now move
On thank you chair this question is in two parts well actually one is a question another is a request we would like to propose a a recommendation which will be a variation of recommendation eight which might not be appropriate to do at this point of the committee
Meeting happily do it at the latter part yeah would prefer to do at the latter part when we have an uh opportunity to discuss it as a a committee thank you that’s perfectly great so the question I’ve got then follows on from what councelor Gilmore was saying um we do
Have great concerns about costs on this I mean we’re asking to find another 22.8 million pound and when we first spoke to officers prior to the consultation exercise we were given an assurance that there would be um by using the workers already employed a very marginal
Increase in costs but can we have some sort of assurance with regard to recommendation six which states subject to confirmation of the final Construction contract which Paul Bernard’s very kindly alluded to well clearly we can’t have an open checkbook can we have an assurance that there will
Be no further hike as a result of this contract negotiation which would take us over the 36.7 million pound spend thank you um clearly the project has to be funded within the existing approved Capital program envelope that’s what that recommendation effectively says obviously I can’t give any guarantees as
To the overall final figure because that is subject to one a detailed cost consultant uh working to us um in challenging the figures that we’ve received from the contractor and then two finalizing those costs and obviously uh agreeing those um for entering into the contract itself and the reason I’d
Be loed to give such a guarantee is simply because of the volatile nature of the market I indicated uh uh earlier that um there are so many moving Parts is probably the best way I’d phrase it that I’m not in a position to make that statement now but clearly in order to
Let a contract ultimately you have to finalize a design and you then have to by consequence of doing that finalize a contract figure and clearly we will do that um before um we obviously uh implement the scheme if that’s what uh the cabinet wished to do I hope that helps a bit any
Anyway supplimentary one yeah thank you for that I fully understand the nature of budget and how we get to a final figure so are we for the record to advise the people of Plymouth that we could have spend over 36.8 million pounds um it’s been very clear in this
Report um that that is um an estimate um based on a likely maximum um and that we’re hoping to bring that figure down um there’s been a couple comparisons um to the um previous figures um around the 12 million pound Mark um it’s really important that we
Recall that that was a 2017 figure based on on the first initial um addition to the capital program um and and both councilors and officers were very aware that the the previous previous iteration of the Amway scheme would would come in at more than that um and what we’ve
Tried to be is to make sure that we are transparent around the level ambition that’s being talked about to Anthony do you want to answer that yeah thank you counselor um just’s two or three points uh councelor Lego I just like to raise the first is within those numbers I and I I
Stated it earlier at the moment there’s an allocation of 6.7 million pound from risk effectively one of the things that we will be doing is a number of trial pits or the contractors will be doing to try and get a better understanding of the underground characteristics um 24 trial pits are
Proposed that in them those in themselves should give us a better understanding of whether those numbers are actually as bad as they think they may be so that will be something that will happen soon and in doing so that should give us a greater handle on whether those risks are actually as big
As they potentially are on paper so the Hope from that would be more detail will reduce that risk so that’s the first point um I think the second point to make in terms of um Paul’s comment in terms of our Capital envelope we will accommodate this within the existing
Capital envelope of of the of the council and every year our Capital program unders spends by a degree between 10 to 20% as an average um we will also be looking at other opportunities for funding if other funding opportunities arise we’ll also be looking at ways we
Can capitalize as many costs as we can to reduce the pressure on Revenue budget so I think there’ll be a number of things we will be looking at in the weeks coming to try and minimize the impact of cost um our Paul’s right we cannot say for sure that it won’t be
Above but based upon the work we plan to do I suspect we will be below that number which I see at the moment as being the high number um so we will do what we can we will go through a value engineering exercise we will go through uh assessments of information through
Trial pits which our cost Consultants will look at with the contractors and a number of other areas of work to try and minimize all those costs to the minimum that’s required to deliver the scheme as proposed and as eventually will be agreed thank you counc Lang I understand
You want to come in on this um I wanted to add that um obviously we’ve we’ve tried to be very transparent about what we think the most might be but it’s not the figure isn’t out of keeping with such significant ambitious public realm schemes in cities abedine for instance
Um has has done a a very ambitious scheme it’s a a a city more or less the same size population wise as ours um and their scheme cost around 30 million pounds so I just think that’s a bit of context around what um ambitious big important schemes like this are costing now thank
You thank you coun Luger you happy thank you I now call on councel goling thank you chair um just like to offer my congratulations to the team uh on the on such a I say wide reaching and meaningful consultation over this new scheme um just a small question on the
Number of responses um page 56 item 7.17 says the council receiv received 2274 responses of which 1,925 were on the online portal does that include the responses that were made from the let’s talker Mar away consultation who received 1500 responses so is it 2,22 sorry 2274 responses received by
The council and 1500 responses respon received by the consultation firm or is one included in the other Could you um repeat the reference to the page number yeah page says page 56 of 85 and item the it’s uh numbered 7.17 under the meaningful engagement event February
2023 and it says the council received a total of two 2,274 responses of which 1,925 were received by the the online portal later on in the report on page um summary of reach it says item 8.12 page 60 of 85 this says 1 151 responses who responded to a post code
Question so at the top 8.11 1 153 survey responses from from the what’s known as the let’s talk a m away consultation uh two different consultations two different consultations the the um the February 23 um consultation was the consultation that followed the full Council debate on
The 30th of November um and uh then the other references I think I’ll just check are the um are from the let’s talk about way consultation okay thank you can I ask supplementary um so that’s in total 3,700 responses from this public consultation how does that compare with
The original contri consultation on the original scheme because if I move uh up to section 7.14 the only indication of how many responses were received in the consultation of the scheme as introduced by the previous administration was 17 was that the grand total of responses received on that previous consultation on the old
Scheme I I think it’s important for us to understand we this report although it does um talk about the history of the um where we how we got here at this particular scrutiny meeting I I don’t think we should be considering the old scheme because that’s still a subject of
Um of the high court um sorry chair this is this is not I’m not really talking about the old scheme at all in its substantive manner really trying to understand whether the public can have confidence in the consultation of the current scheme as they it appeared they did not
In the old scheme by comparing the number of P responses made by the public in one scheme and the other I I know the question but I I don’t want a elongated answer because I I have some fear that it’s it’s going away from this particular report um yeah I think there’s two
Things here so we can’t combine the response rates because one was on a previous consultation in February for the previous scheme and then now um the response rate to this consultation is on the new scheme put forward so this discussion today is on the response rate to this consultation on the new scheme
Put forward thank you for that King you happy with that well not happy but it’ll do so if what I don’t understand is why if we’re only considering consultation on this scheme why there is actually section 7.11 to 7.14 in the report in the pack
If um we’re only why why bring up the old scheme consultation at all anyway we can we can continue Ker pel thank you chair uh can I just ask uh through you the transport money that that we’ve got has to be spent by uh March 25 I’m
Led to believe uh and we’re still awaiting for a court decision on whether the scheme can proceed or not or or parts of the scheme can proceed or not how likelihood or what is the likelihood that we may be able to do part of the scheme and spend that
Money or are we is is there likelihood that we may lose it and and go back to the drawing board there is a process as I mentioned before and I’m sure as part of the previous administration councelor Patel uh you we are working under the same
Aaces as you did we have permission to go to D DF uh and put a change request in we’re not in that position at the moment um government are very keen to get transforming cities funding spent so we will look at all options that we’ve got does that answer your question yes thank
You thank you I now move on to um counc Partridge thank you chair um again I’m not sure who this question is directed to so my apologies um I’m all for a sustainable build no matter what gets built can someone tell me um the amount of uh a planned amount of recycled
Aggregates that this city is going to use to uh re re for the project modway project if it isn’t can I have a answer to why it’s not being considered um on the back of that recycled Aggregates um not only environmentally friendly they are also a lot cheaper than new newly
Mined Aggregates thank you chair sorry chair through you um would you mind repeating the question councilor PD again I do apologize so for the whole plan um in in in terms of sustainability um do we plan to use recycled Aggregates um sand type 803 crushed rock or are we using newly mined stuff
Recycled Aggregates are a lot cheaper and also being recycled they uh was a bit more carbon friendly um thank you for your question Council of Partridge um if you’re interested in the sustainability aspects of the scheme um I would suggest you had a little look um at the climate impact
Assessment um which is around page um 111 to page um 117 um as part of that what we’ve done with this scheme is to um do a full um climate impact assessment on eight different environmental aspects um of this scheme um this wasn’t done um under the previous administration’s approach um we
Wanted to make sure um that all key decisions um go through this process so that includes um everything from um biodiversity and climate change adaptation um to air quality and the ocean it also includes um what you’ve referred to there which is materials and waste um so there’s a um detailed
Assessment um of the materials that are being used um as part of that um which includes um recycling existing materials where possible um did you want to explain any more about that Martin yeah just put um little bit more information associated with that counselor so there is a quite a large
Amount of uh of material in our M way that we can look to reuse which as you said will bring down the the carbon footprint uh a lot of those include the um the former Granite curbs so in the in the pre-war City a lot of the the
Highways that used to exist in that area they dug up and retained the curbs um and those curbs were reused in our M way to form the edges of the stream that used to exist there so we’re going to be reusing those curbs um as part of the
New R um to line both sides of that and the base of it as well there’s also um quite a lot of um fairly decent quality slabs and sets that we’re going to look to reuse in some of the um some of the public realm areas uh and we’re also
Looking a little bit wider as well into for example at Colin Campbell Court with the CR the crushed aggregate that exists there um using that to to form some of the levels um that we need in order to create the new Topography of of the new
Scheme so there there is a fair amount of material that’s being reused that will reduce the amount that we have to import very quick chair thank you thank you for that so on the back of that the stuff we import where possible um I do understand the need for new materials
Where possible will we be using a high degree of recycled materials from the local suppliers in the area or will that be um have to be shipped in from outside the area um again this is all on sustainability thank you yeah I mean we’re still in the process of identifying exactly where the
Materials are going to come from for each particular aspect of the scheme and that’s going to be coming out through through the tendering process um obviously we have to look internationally for the likes of the Granite um you know that’s that’s um that’s just the basis of they usually
Come from from China India which is the more affordable elements but also more more locally but yeah I think um we are going to be keeping that under top of our minds to make sure that we’ll be sourcing as locally as we possibly can where we can thank you for your answer
Thank you um I’ll now come to councelor rainford thank you chair um thank you all very much for this report I should should have thanked you earlier and I didn’t it it is huge and it’s taken an a of time effort and commitment um my my question sort of is
Following on from visits that I’m sure we’ve all done to cities and towns where money hasn’t been spent where shops and um are empty it’s looking unloved it’s not lived in um to compare that with places where we we know investment has gone in and as as a
Result the local local economy starts to to benefit we see money coming into the local Authority which is hugely important and that in a sense offsets some of the the cost concerns not all of them but some of them um so my question is actually about the residential potential element that could be
Encouraged as a result of this Amway Improvement um to ask whether not there’s any way of quantifying the level of interest there is at this stage from people who know that we are looking to make these improvements who see the benefits of uh in town living um is is
Somebody able to answer that please uh yes thank you for the question um and it goes to the heart of the point that the report does touch upon uh in a couple of places about the Amway scheme um and indeed The Wider better places program themselves being part of a wider
Game plan for the city center uh and the leader spoke about the challenges facing um uh English cities uh and we have a unique um City Center um uh which I think people uh now realize the the quality of what was built after the war
Um uh was very high and is now obviously reflected in the fact that part of the city center is a conservation area the report makes uh reference to uh a desire to bring forward uh many more homes in the city center um clearly um to meet our um challenges around affordable and
Social housing but also our general housing needs I think the city center is going to play a key role in the future it is already playing a key role uh with some planning consents that have been been granted for example the conversion of the deams block and I can say
Although I can’t actually name them for commercial confidentiality reasons but again the report does touch upon the fact that we have been in discussions with investors um who have referred to the Amad way scheme and the importance of the Amad way scheme um to their future potential investment and it is
Obviously only potential investment but those conversations are being had lastly um we uh the chief exec um uh the director of place and others in both the economic development department and uh my my department are working with homes England who see a real opportunity um for a significant amount of housing to
Be brought forward in the city center which itself of course if realized uh would um create significant footfall for the businesses um in the in that area so I think we have um calls to be optimistic about as the leader put it reimagining the city center for the
Future um and the Amway scheme’s key role in uh moving towards that um different vision for what it is um it can be in the future thank thank you um no councelor Gilmore thank you chair um I would like to ask Council Bri Del question about the tree planting I
Appreciate before starting that you’ve spoken at length about this as part of your presentation and that there’s also detail in the report but I have two things that again come from residents one is simple question um the Plymouth pair is a very rare tree which is associated with this city historically
And as far as I can tell is not in the plan anywhere and I’d like to have a a reason there is that why that isn’t the case and secondly um reading the report there’s references early on I’m looking at page 35 to creating a Vista a clear
View down uh to the hope and there’s also references throughout the report about creating clear ey lines for safety reasons uh there are accusations in the public uh Arena as I’m sure you’re aware that the trees that are being put in are lollipop trees that they’re not not good
Enough not diverse enough not interesting enough not large enough um although the report does talk about tree Heights so can you help me to understand please the balance between this Vista these clear eyelines and yet at the same time this plan for large and diverse trees as opposed to if you can
Directly address please the accusation of lollipop trees thank you very much thank you councelor really interesting question question and actually that for me has been one of the the most interesting parts of this process actually is is the the really complex topic of of tree selection it’s is one
That um different groups have had um different opinions on um and and that we’ve really tried to to listen to so um specifically your your first question about the the Plymouth pet um we’re really interested in the Plymouth pet as a species because of that historic link
With with our city um obviously um it’s unusual across the country as a tree species in that it’s the only tree species I’m aware of that requires a license in order to be um planted so there are some complications around it um and it was decided that it wasn’t
Appropriate for this particular scheme um but what I would say on on pair in particular is that we do have um six calorie pairs um as part of that um which we know um creat um small edible fruits which are of interest to to birds
So um there will be that element to this particular scheme um and just to to reassure your resident on the Plymouth pair um the Plymouth pair has been been um planted um in the fairly recent past by P city council including in fora Valley so um there have been other
Locations where where that has been done um you asked about lollipop trees as well and um it’s it’s a tricky one because obviously a lot of the the coverage um around the Amad way scheme has been done through the the very impressive 3D designs and you know a lot
Of people have looked at those visuals um as opposed and quite understandably reading this very detailed 500 page document but if I was to have one favorite page on on that um 500 Page Plus um set of AR um appendixes it would be page 50 so um it’s worth taking a
Little look at that one um and that goes through um the different trees that have been selected for this you get a sense of of quite how many varieties have been chosen um we as part of one of our 10 changes um what we wanted to do based on
The feedback of of Food Plymouth um and other local environmental groups was to have a greater diversity of tree species um both to help with climate resilience and resilience to um potential diseases we know what an issue Ash di back has been both locally and nationally recently but also that diversity for
Other factors too so diversity for biodiversity benefits diversity in terms of appearance um some of the trees here um are smaller in nature um some of them will have um imp impressive canopy cover so you know if you just quickly flick through we’ve got the the London Plane
Um which create quickly establishes a taery roof form we’ve got the calorie pair which I mentioned which has a dense Branch structure um we’ve got the rounded canopy of the the New Horizon Alm um so there will be a range of of canopies offered by um the trees which
Have been selected um and in some cases um specific environmental groups gave us very detailed feedback so there was originally going to be a tree of Heaven um and um a particular Environmental Group um suggested that that wouldn’t be the best species selection and and laid
Out a clear argument why they felt that way um and we replaced that with a London Plane um in this so um you can see in detail the exact reasons um that we’ve chosen for that um I don’t know if any of our other officers wanted to give specific views on
That yeah not not for me um personally but I passed on to um to Adam King uh who’ll be able to give you more of a detailed explanation on the trees but certainly the the Plymouth pair was something that we did look at following the feedback um and um I did you know
Spoke with Adam personally about the opportunities that existed for that um I think he’ll he’ll be able to give a better answer that’s right thanks Martin yeah I mean on the on the Plymouth pair yeah great great to include it in the scheme if we could but they’re commercially very very difficult
To get a hold of uh we tried to get um some Incorporated on the fora Valley Link Road scheme um but that it was impossible we couldn’t find a local grower who could Supply them it may change but again you also need licenses to plant them and also the form is not
Particularly great for City Center um you talked about the lollipop tree well the form of that is is a clear stem and the reason for that is to provide surveillance which is why they’ve been selected um with regards to the species selection there I think there’s about 30
Trees now or 29 tree species that are going in to the scheme including the existing trees that are being retained so there’s a huge diversity of trees there they’ve been selected to be able to deal with climate change the very harsh Urban environment that we get we
Get a lot more reflective light in in urban environments the soil compaction can be greater um so they much harsher conditions so we’ve selected trees that are going to be really robust and able to cope with that but also provide all the the uh the benefits so shade shade
In the winter uh and the summer we’ve also got the um the bark textures so the ornamental features flour pollen you name it we’ve we’ve included them all in there so it’s really diverse um so all those things will be accommodated thank you councelor McCay uh thank you so much chair picking
Up on the point about trees I have several on trees um but my first is on translocation I think it’s really important that this is brought out onto the floor um picking up the questions of Miss tarant Mr Thomas and Miss steer who are with us today the reservations of
The Woodland trust environment Plymouth Plymouth tree people and the majority of respondents to the survey I really want to dig into translocation so translocation was previously deemed not viable what’s changed we’ve also seen a number of trees Incorporated constantly change why is it impossible to not incorporate the final
Four really important question um and you’re right it’s been a theme of the the feedback um it’s worth noting that that was a polarized aspect to the consultation and if you look at the um particular data um in terms of the the the themes that came from um the
Translocation question which we included um very explicitly as a question because we wanted to hear people’s views on it um the the most um popular theme that came up from this and feel free to correct me um if I’m wrong from an ECF perspective but my recollection of that
Is that the most um popular individual theme of the um feedback on translocation was actually that there was an acceptance um amongst about half of the respondents to that particular question um if translocation was deemed necessary for the different priorities of the scheme um then that’s something
That could be um considered there were other responses who wanted to keep um all of the trees um there were also some people who asked about the financial implications of of translocation so you mentioned um that the other views had been expressed um from counselors about translocation previously um the the
Previous conservative Administration decided um that translocation wasn’t viable so so that particular Administration said that translocation wasn’t viable for them um when trudder Evans um became leader of this new Administration he made it very clear to to officers um that he wanted them to look at retaining every
Single tree as part of the scheme that was the the starting point of some of our um design conversations um what we’ve tried to do is balance that across different environmental aspects and so um as part of the consultation some people said they wanted to see the suds
Design um because we mentioned that Suds was one of the reasons that complicates that as part of your pack we’ve we’ve published the whole schematic um for the um s Basin and where they’ll be going um and as you can very clearly see from that um the proximity of the trees to
That s um is prohibitive um the reason why we’ve considered translocation is that um quite understandably there’s been a huge frustration up and down the country and in fact globally um about how Amad way has been dealt with um under previous administration um and we’ve been very clear that we’re trying
To do everything we can to save those trees so first Port of cool was to retain as many of them um in place as possible the second was to think are there any other options available to us so we’re now in a situation where we’re proposing to translocate four of those
Um if you look at page 53 in the pack um there’s detailed information about every single one of those in terms of their location in terms of their category um in terms of the the quality of the tree there’s also information there about the condition and health of those trees as
Well so all of that has been taken into account um it hasn’t been an easy decision um you know there’s been very strong views expressed on this um it’s something that all of us as a Cabinet are very passionate about getting right um but on the balance of the different
Environmental aspects of the scheme including the psychopath including the suds making sure we’re reducing emissions ractive travel and improving water quality and flooding resilience that was the Compromise that we we’ve had to strike in order to bring that forward and follow that’s okay um so
There is a little bit of a quick step in semantics there um Council exact words where modications must be made to incorporate the remaining trees which to me doesn’t relate to translocation but that is not my follow-up Point um can you please detail the cost associated with translocating the four remaining
Trees and we are expecting per outcomes for the trees that will be uh translocated and only looking to replace those on a onetoone basis um that one to1 basis doesn’t recognize the benefit that these mature trees are bringing as opposed to two new ones so why are they
Only going to be replaced on a one to one basis should they fail and not a one to two to three um I don’t have the exact figure of the cost off the top of my head I believe the cost of the translocation will be approximately
£100,000 um that will depend on on finer details as we get closer to it um in terms of the emissions benefits of it you’re correct of course that um mature trees um have a greater carbon sequestration benefit um and so some of the consideration um in terms of The Wider emissions
Impact of the scheme have taken that into account um but we’ve also got to take into account um the likely life of of those trees as well if they were um retained versus new trees in terms of the the decades that we’d expect um for them to thrive in a more um appropriate
Location as well so so all of those aspects have been considered councel rord please thank you chair um I’m jumping across to cycling if I may and Council cona um when you gave your presentation um you talked about um signage which is welcome in addition to
The change in the work surf in the in the the road surface as well as the changes to the Crossovers um I’d been contacted personally by a large number of people who had concerns S as pedestrians as well as cyclists about the risks um that were there um you emphasized signage in
Relation to the cycling route signs on the ground this is a very small point but pedestrians have a habit of wandering I certainly do are you also going to have signage for pedestrians um just just just to keep it crystal clear because if somebody who’s hearing impaired and who
Can get caught out if a comes behind me um you know I don’t want to have any accidents happening in our City Center thank you councelor anford um if you read ltn 120 um all the points that you’ve raised have to be addressed in that before both the department for transport and active
Travel will actually sign it off um also we’ve gone that one step further with signage with differential Paving different colors um we’ve run we also ran it through padan and asked them for their opinions on what we needed to to do um so I think we have we have pushed
This scheme as far as any scheme has been pushed to rectify and encourage greater use of walking and cycling facilities that’s a very quick supplementary um which is once the scheme’s in place um I I personally hope that we’ll have a review of how pedestrians and how how the center is
Working for cyclists and pedestrians uh absolutely um what is key to the Future um we we’re living in an age of um climate emergency we’re living an age of having to look at all schemes differently into how we promote sustainable transport our promotion team do house-to-house visits to talk about
That every scheme that we do whether it be a walking and cycling scheme or a road scheme always have two audits after for learning curve to make sure that we’ve got it right as we did in the uh mayfl Street Junction um which proved that we amended it after it was
Implemented just from concerns from residents so yes um thank you for that I I’ve actually got no more speakers at this point unless someone wishes to speak carry on comes sorry I actually I have lots more questions it was just um at that point a bit of a lull um so I
Guess I’ll pick up on uh the plant plaques at the base of the trees um will these be kept visible and accessible uh with regards to underplanting I’m also just wondering if there is any capacity to have Braille on those um plaques as well to increase accessibility yes thank you counselor uh
Yeah I think the uh the idea for the idea for the plaques in the first instance is that they’ll be located immediately adjacent to um where the trees planted so they’ll be probably on the edge of the foot Wass um which will keep them clear but then you know that’s
A detail point when we come to looking at the ones that are internal we have to make sure that obviously they are kept um they are kept clear um and sorry the second point was uh asking if it’s possible to add Braille to those plaques for increased accessibility yeah yeah absolutely I
Think that is something we can look at I don’t think that would be too much of a big ask to put in one into the pl thanks right thank you um at this point just particularly for the Public’s uh information um I’ll be I’ll be asking
For a comfort break for 10 minutes but then we’ll be moving on to recommendations from our scrutiny committee um so you know you’re welcome to um stay if you wish to um at this point will take a t will there be no more capacity for questions following the Comfort break
Will there be any more capacity for questions following the Break um yes wonderful thank you yes if you um I believe we had some more questions please carry on counselor thank you I’m going to try and nip through these as quickly as possible so first of all starting with the
Consultation I really want to acknowledge the breadth and depth of the consultation process uh and want to note with uh all the considerations given to accessibility especially the easy read version I was really pleased to see that I think it’s fantastic um I want to ask what has the council learned from this
Process that will be carried into future projects and I also wanted to um pick up on the poor stakeholder interview take up I believe it was 9 out of 40 that took you up on the offer of that interview um why was that uptake so low
And I also wondered if we had any data on um I actually expected respondents to have like to have more and I wondered if why would we think sorry trying to trying to formulate in my brain do we have any information on how many uh surveys were started versus completed do
Did we have a high abandonment uh number for example thank you okay I’ll take the last two questions first um so on the interviews um we reached out to uh high priority stakeholders we considered high priority in terms of out of 250 contacts on a database they were very active um with
Regards to the previous scheme and the previous consultation um so we proactively reached out to them to see if they wanted a onetoone interview we conducted those prior to the consultation um to gain information and feedback on how they might want to be involved during the consultation as well
And any help they could give with Distributing information across their networks um and then when it came to the consultation we got in touch with them again to see if they wanted an interview um just not everybody did they just felt they could respond through the survey or
Through a formal written response it was up to them um so I know as you’ll see in the report no greater waiting was given towards an interview or a written response or a survey response so it’s purely up to the individual representative of the organization how
They wanted to respond um in terms of the survey I don’t have data in terms of any um the number of incompletes I know the number of incompletes were low um and um as I’ve said we re we realized that um not everybody would want to respond to all the closed questions so
We rectified that as quickly as as we could um and made that clear on the online survey that it wasn’t enforced anymore so people could skip questions if they wanted to and we took all those incompletes into account um on the hard copy surveys obviously they’d already
Been printed um and we didn’t want to waste paper in terms of printing more hard copy surveys um but there were a few that came back incomplete um and we accepted those so just on the issue of Lessons Learned I mean clearly will be um reflecting as
A team on uh the um uh way in which the consultation was undertaken um uh obviously under ef’s leadership and we’ll be talking to ECF in some detail who obviously also provide um services in relation to some statut planning and other processes so we’ll certainly be talking to ECF and and reflecting on
What lessons we think we can take from how this consultation was undertaken great thank you uh my next question relates to cycling so I’m really um boyed by all of the improvements to the cycling infrastructure I think is going to be a really great addition to the city center
Um the conclusion of the ltn 120 uh cycling uh notes that it does pass the test but it also notes some recommendations for further improvements will these be implemented that will be we we’ve we’ve done some changes as you can see in direct response to that um as
We’re going forward we will need to look at the cycling and walking infrastructure in the city um because the ultimate goal is to have a walking and cycling route throughout the city so this is in my opinion phase one of that um and I can assure you that this
Administration is and I think I have a track record in the fact that walking cycling and other forms of sustainable transport are high on our agenda and that will be looked at over the coming years that’s what I’d love to hear thank you councelor ker uh my next question is
On the carbon impact report um I’m really pleased to see that included in here I did want to pick up on um um how it has been assessed how those numbers came to be why was a score of five out of five I four out of five because I
Don’t see any metrics for waiting um and also was equal waiting giving to each piece of the pie per se uh was any considered over another yeah um really important question so the um climate impact assessment is um a new policy that we introduced quite recently
Um we as an Administration want to make sure that in every single key decision um so that’s every um major decision and those that require um a business case um are assessed on eight different climate impact um grounds um in terms of waiting um there’s there’s no um set priority in
Terms of how this is laid out in terms of one or more being more important than the other um it’s designed in such a way that people can get a snapshot of the evaluation as well as being able to do a deeper dive um through the calculations
That have been done um Lucinda Brooke um in pool team in s spni i um has done some really important work in terms of setting this up um and I’m sure if you want a general briefing in terms of um how the the particular ratings um are
Organized that should be happy to do that um I think it’s it’s a really important way of of not just making sure that what we do is transparent um but also trying to encourage um both climate and nature to be um earlier on in the decision- making too because every
Officer and every Department working on a major project will know this is coming up um and so the important thing for me is I think this will make sure that’s at the heart of more projects including very much a m way sorry uh public toilets I want to
Pick up on this point as well so I note that uh works are being undertaken to the exterior of our public toilets but not the interior I think it will be a bit of a shame to have a lovely shiny new High Street but with um old public
Toilets that are in desperate need of some refreshment um I know that you there is an intention to update these at later point and I wondered uh whether that work could be brought forward and implemented as part of the armad way that replaces scheme uh well obviously that is going
To add to the overall cost of the scheme is the first point to make um and the um uh in discussions with um Council Larry The View was taken that we needed to look at the refurbishment of the interior of the toilets as a separate project uh and look for um funing for
That um uh as as a separate scheme uh it was considered as part of this scheme but obviously there are other pressures on the budget that we’ve highlighted so the exterior will be enhanced um but consideration will be given to um to that as part of a separate project that
Will need to be developed in the future thank you um actually think the rest of mine fall under recommendations so I’ll I’ll save you my voice for now thank you thanks yeah um question if I may for councelor Lang and it’s a bit of a trying to bring everything together from
My my perspective I followed the the debate from the um from the beginning from the uh the first scheme and that’s as far as my mention of that will go today right the way through to to today and we’ve heard understandably a lot of questions about the detail um sustainability Finance the interaction
Between pedestrians and uh uh cyclists and so forth but as as Deputy leader what would you want to be the the vision going forward because this is something that we’re looking to spend a lot of money on for the city and that the city is going to have to interact with and
Coexist with for hopefully generations to come so what’s your your vision going forward what would you say to people of Plymouth in those terms um thank you through you chair I I suppose it’s about being ambitious isn’t it it’s about being ambitious for our city and I think it’s I understand
Why the questions have come up around the money of course this is public money and we we need to justify um why we’re proposing to spend what we’re proposing but I think it’s really important to say that we’re not being proplate we’re being realistic about what a first class
Scheme will cost and I think deserves it you know plymouth’s really beginning to get noticed we we appear in those you know Hidden Gem um articles in National newspapers um and we want a city center that really reflects our ambition Paul mentioned around destination Plymouth they’ve got really ambitious plans about
Increasing the number of cruise ships that come to our city don’t we want to be taking them to an incredible City Center um I I think you know things are really looking up in the city center I can just go through a few um projects you know we’re nearing the end of the
Work to transform Civic Square we’re working with historic England on that project and a cleanup project that we’ve seen and we’ve actually seen um if we can use social media as a measure of how much residents appreciate that kind of thing those those do and Ellie will back
Me up those do enormous numbers on our social media because people like us doing things that show that we’re taking pride in our city um there’s so much going on and and I think Al way deserves a a first class regeneration which matches the height of what we’re aiming
To do for the city I mentioned abedine earlier um the George Street project in Edinburgh in 2021 cost around 32 million pounds um so I would say you know if it’s good enough abedine if it’s good enough Edinburgh then it it’s good enough for Plymouth thank you have I no more
Speakers we now move on uh to recommendations um I well have you picked up any on the way or is there any recommendations you want to make from the floor at this point please through you chair I think there was just one counselor lugger refer to two well in
That case chair I think it’s we should just hear from members yes Council lugger first please thank you two recommendations so we deal with each one in turn presumably so we can deliberate the first one is to recommendation eight an amendment to the already established recommendation 8 where we add the
Words um bear with me one second so after the words City Center company we add the words and cross-party political representation I take on board what Paul Bernard said that other consules may join in the equation but I think the recommendation at this scrutiny level is that we have cross-party representation on that
Board yes um um the time honored method of uh recommendations is normal that Ross will write them out and email them and you sorry well no no not today but we’ll do it in the coming week um um or you want today now um so um you
Know the time on way is U we’ve we’ve always finalized them by you know so hope you’re happy with that um Carry On thank you chair uh my first recommendation um I was really pleased to see that drink drinking water fans will be implemented as part of the
Design as one of the recommendations really pleased that was been listened to I was also wondering if the council can commit to making all of the bins with the exception of dog waste bins have recycling facilities I did note a lack of recycling facilities at um our
Christmas fair and I think it’d be good to um set that standard right from the I with our M way yes Tom you want to respond to that um I completely respect for the committee to to make any recommendations they feel necessary but if it helps for the deliberations of the committee that
Is is a point I’ve already raised with the team um that for every um Refuge bin um we need to have commensurate recycling facilities as part of that but that doesn’t mean to say you shouldn’t put it in for recommendation as well but just as a point of clarity thank
You yes I I um I’m I’m sure all members are aware that um recommendations are exactly that recommendations and um the cabinet in the position to accept or reject them are there any more carry on thank you chair um I would also like to see consideration be given
To outdoor gym equipment within the plans for play I think it’s really good to have uh facilities from Toddlers right through to um oaps um and I think an outdoor gym would add to that are they already included in the plan if I missed it no
Um also in relation to uh bird boxes and Bug hotels I think it’s really important to help um create Community cohesion after really divisive process with our Mada way so I’d love to see some Community painting events uh for those facilities thank you um okay K ler thank you chair um take on
Board exactly what Paul Bernard said about putting a final figure on the overall spend of the project in the terms of public accountability and also from a sort of audit point of view could we suggest a small wording at the end I fully understand all the ramifications
Of what was said this afternoon that we add the words at the end of recommendation six provided always that best Endeavors will be applied to keeping the project within the maximum spend allocation if I’m honest I would take that as a given anyway but by all means include it comes with
Gilmore thank you um I’m still thinking about uh tourism and this is a big amount of money and of course we need to make Plymouth fabulous because we want it to be fabulous because we live here and because it may bring in more tourist revenue is some way of finding out after
A financial effect that this Improvement had I don’t know I’m thinking of I you you know better than I do how to track it is there some way to track the increase that we see I I guess um most of this will come back to scrutiny to review all these
Decisions at some time in the future so would you accept that that’s covered by scrutiny reviewing it um I want to agree with you to be nice but at the same time I’m thinking there must be some formal way of finding out what Financial increases were a result of a
Project there must be I don’t know it’s quite clear that I don’t know what the answer to this question is that I’m raising but nonetheless okay thank you for that you’ve made so far well thank you chair it’s just in addition to recommendation eight uh concerning the city center
Public ground board to add cross party membership that uh Bin facilities are uh have the recycling facilities alongside or as part uh consideration to be given to outdoor gym equipment in the play areas um now this one is where I got a little bit lost so I do apologize uh counselor
Consideration of community painting events engagement we’ll come up with some words on that part chair um um councelor luggers um mentioned uh best Endeavors to keep within the maximum spend of course we always try to do that counselor but uh we’ll add it to the list um and
Um considerations to the way we review the impact of the scheme down the line um now I think that could be done both at cabinet and here in the future um but we’ll make that recommendation to Cabinet uh I think it might come out in the response to or at least the final
Decision in in on the 19th um chair that’s what we’ gathered there’s another one counc M thank you Ross and thank you so much for sifting through those there was two of mine from earlier um one of which relates to improving the one: one ratio for filed translocated trees and another
One to consider adding Braille to the tree um pla thank youson thank you um I just wanted to ask about appropriate signage on other kind of um attractions within the city are we going to have signage that’s going to direct to uh this area or vice versa
Um no it’s a question but can I can I have um signage that will workmen of course can um can also um reply to that via email rather than go back to questions at this point that would be part of the refresh we always do of our wayfinding strategy anyway so that’ be
Taken outside of this yeah okay thank you uh three chair not seeing any more hands um so just to um go back then recommendation eight concerning uh cross party membership of the city center public round board bins to have recycling facilities consideration to be given outdoor gym equipment consideration of Community engagement
Style events best Endeavors to keep within the maximum spend uh consider a way to review the impact and I think report back to scrutiny uh improve one: one ratios for fail translocated trees uh Braille plaques are the specific recommendations uh that I’ve captured following that uh I wonder chair though
If there’s a general uh position the committee wanted to take either on the consultation or The Wider scheme um assum you’ll tidy them up and we’ll have a run Rob and of emails so that committee members are absolutely clear about that oh yeah yeah I’m going to do that
Um and um I guess it’s time for the committee to um commit to this because we’ve had a really full and inclusive report and I think I would be asking the committee now to actually with a show of hands vote on their full support for this scheme going forward to the
Cabinet thank you any against abstentions one exstension thank you just for the rec we need it for the minutes is there any comments are there any comments on the consultation that you wish to make at this point right thank you okay that’s um that’s sorry will could we could we thank all the
Members of the public and that helped um you know feed in there’s lots lots into the consultation there’s lots of good information there lots of I have I read this using a a reader and there been lots of interesting um things I’ve learn not necessarily about things that I’ve
Are my for a um it’s been very so I thank all the people that Taken part in some of the groups I think did workshops and all sorts um to talk about elements um that we of the design so justk thank you for that reminder will thank you um
Yes of course uh we thank the public and without the public this report would be rather empty I suspect and what I would like to do is thank um all the officers who have contributed to this report which is really um quite difficult for a scrutiny committee because you answered most of
The questions before they were asked in this report so I’d commend that as a an example of best practice exactly I’d like to take this opportunity now to thank all the people that’s contributed to this this afternoon I think it’s been a really good scrutiny you know we’ve
Had questions from the public which all of you in incorporate in your questions and we’ve had a a a fine present presentation from our cabinet colleagues um in in response to this report so I think by and large I would commend this kind of exercise is best practice and I appreciate all the
Contributions from the members can I say it’s been reasonably well chaired as well so thank you thank you for your stewardship in um and at this point I at that point I’ll draw it to a close