Oksana Markarova on Ukraine’s counteroffensive against Russia and U.S. aid

The United States has committed $44 billion to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia, but concerns are growing in Kyiv as disagreements in Congress have held up further U.S. assistance. Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States Oksana Markarova joins The Post’s David Ignatius to discuss the uncertainty around U.S. aid, the counteroffensive against Russia and the future of her country.

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The yays are 86 the Nays are 11 and the bill is passed Ukrainian ambassador to the United States is here tonight sitting with the first lady Let each of us if you’re able to stand stand and send an unmistakable signal to the world Ukraine thank You we cannot afford to lose focus in one place or another that’s why in order to be able to stop not only Russia but other terroristic regimes we also have to win in Ukraine good morning and welcome to Washington Post Live I’m David ignacius a colonist for the Post we’re honored to be joined today by Ukraine’s ambassador to Washington Oxana marova she’ll give us an assessment of this terrible War nearly 700 days into the conflict Ambassador thank you so much for joining

Washington Post live again it’s good to see you thank you David I’m honored to be here it’s always uh a great conversation for me and hopefully will be great conversation for our audience so we can share a little bit about one by almost two years into the

Full-fledged phase of the war it’s still important for all of us to win so Ambassador let’s begin with the situation in Congress where the assistance needed to help Ukraine continue in this war is still under debate Senator Chris Coons who’s been a strong supporter of Ukraine told NBC

This week that if the US Congress doesn’t pass aid for Ukraine they can’t can’t hang on for months without it in other words in his view this could be a matter of of weeks so let’s begin by talking worst case if Congress fails to act and approve this Aid how long has

Ukraine Got uh that it can continue in this fight well David that’s a very difficult uh an question to answer but I think it’s the right question to ask as we’re waiting for this support from the US and from all of our friends and allies right

Now now because we now have to stay the course and despite the fact that Ukraine has achieved so much during the past two years that we have been able to prove Putin and Russia R we have been liberated uh we have liberated more than 50% of what they have taken we are

Defending Ukraine everywhere on the front line and in in everywhere in Ukraine and today is one of these days when again a huge barrage of missiles and drones uh was shelled on Peaceful cities including Kev uh but you know uh we will stand as long as we will be able

To fight and ukrainians will fight uh you know regardless of the fact whether we will have weapons or we will not have weapons uh but of course in order to win we have we we need all the weapons and uh every time I’m asked this question

You know how long can you stand without support uh obviously it’s going to be very difficult and even though we have started producing our own weapons we have started co-producing we still rely heavily on support from our friends and allies especially from the US and um I I

Do have hope talking to so many people uh from both parties uh that uh there will be help now so the time is of the essence Ambassador let’s just focus on the situation on cap capit Hill right now I’m sure you’ve got uh the best contacts in town and are watching this

Debate it’s a matter of life and death for your country what do what do you hear do you think that it’s likely first that uh the the bipartisan package that would include Ukraine Aid and and Border assistance will will be enacted by the Senate and that it’ll have enough

Support in the house to get through what do you think well the bipartisan support for Ukraine is there both on the House and Senate side and uh uh for during the past almost 10 uh two two months the discussion was not about Ukraine so if when in November October I have been

Answering a lot of questions providing a lot of information about different uh parts of Ukrainian support when President zalinski was here in December uh he also share it with both senators and people on the in in in in the house uh what is the plan what are the priorities for

2024 how well we’re doing the accountability transparency and Reporting on everything we’re receiving uh during all January we hear the mostly debates about something that is not related to Ukraine but is in the package which is American internal issue on immigration and and border control and

Again I cannot comment on it but I can only hope that the solution there will be found as soon as possible so we can move ahead with the whole package because I know both Ukraine and Israel and other friends are counting on it uh it looks like there is progress in the

Discussions and we hear it from both sides but again you know uh in a democracy discussions could be lensy and progress is great but we need results so um talking to all the friends and allies again explaining why it is so critical for Ukraine but not only for Ukraine not

It it’s critical for all of us to stop decisively Putin and show that democracies even though we need all this discussions we still can be United and decisive like Russia Iran North Korea are very United and decited in their mign plans so we have to of course discuss of course engage all the

Stakeholders of course explain it to people of course address all the concerns that uh the critics and Skeptics have but we also have to be able to do it fast enough not to lose and this is what is at take now we have a a question uh Madame ambassador from a

Member of the audience Moren in Colorado who has a very practical political question what can President Biden do in these remaining days of of this crucial debate to make the case to to voters and to and to members of Congress that this is crucial for the United States

Interest what what thoughts do you have about how that basic point that Americans have a lot at stake in this can become clear well let me instead of like giving advice to President Biden because I think he has made this case when he submitted the package and when uh Administration especially secretary

Austin secretary yell and secretary raymon the secretary blink and everyone went uh to Congress and gave their position on why it is important uh but let me also share why I think it’s important for all of us now uh Putin has been very clear what he’s fighting

Against it’s not only Ukraine which he dreams of destroying and occupying again but it’s against everyone who believes in the same same values he threatens other NATO members he threatens other Democratic countries he says that he’s fighting for his way of living so to say

And and it’s important for all of us to show that we can support our way of living now 10 to two years uh into the full fleshed phase of this war and soon it’s going to be 10 years after Putin attacked us for the first time never

Ukraine asked our friends and allies to send soldiers to fight for us we still can do it ourselves we can fight an enemy that threatens all of us threatens Black Sea security threatens Euro Atlantic security threatens all countries of uh that value freedom and democracy we can do it with our own

Soldiers and our people are ready to do that all we are asking is to send us the tools help us with support defense budget and others so we can decisively win and go back to the prosperity and peace which all of our countries need in order to deliver better to our people so

In a strange way providing more Military Support more support to us now will result in less support and more money than be available to uh every country for their own citizens but in order to prevent American soldiers European soldiers from fighting Putin which will happen unfortunately if God forbid

Ukraine Falls we have to support Ukraine and stop it while it’s still in Ukraine I’m I’m reminded of what Winston Churchill told Franklin Roosevelt uh in 1939 give us the tools and we will finish the job uh so can finish the job I want to ask you ambassador to help our

Viewers understand what it feels like to be in Ukraine today you mentioned that today was an especially difficult day because of a barrage of missiles I have an app on my phone that lights up every time there’s an air alert over ke from my visits there dur during the war it lights up

Two or three times a day give give us a sense of what it’s like for people in this cold winter cold January uh and and wave after wave of of rockets and drones strikes the capital what’s that like for the for the people of Ukraine well David I have the same app

And it’s very difficult you know like today one of those days when not only uh dozens of missiles and drones and everything that Russia can gather together was sent to KV harv Kon also pavad they attacked residential areas and they have destroyed just high-rise buildings or the private houses of the

People we have more than 60 people injured uh as as the result of this horrible night we already have seven that confirmed dead it’s horrible you know just imagine uh Ordinary People this is one of the days when unfortunately you know I I have to call

My mom and be worried if she’s not responding because you know uh and and you don’t know whether it’s it’s because something happened or because she’s in the basement uh everyone have to wake up their kids during the night and go to the shelter uh or or go it’s it it’s

Just unbelievable you know a bit surreal I have to I have to share that in in 21st century in the middle of Europe we have attacks after attacks after attacks uh from absolutely aggressive war criminals in Kremlin who are just sending missiles into residential areas and just killing people for no reason

Other than some sick person uh imperialistic fantasies you know and uh of course because of the air defense thanks to the US and all of our friends and partners we are destroying the majority of missiles but not all of them and frankly this is why support is so

Important now because we will be running out of the interceptors of the missiles that we need to protect life not to mention all the weapons that we need in order to liberate still our territories because while people are suffering in Kev in L in other places from these

Rocket attacks on a regular basis there are also millions of ukrainians who suffer under occupation and that we don’t see it on TV we don’t hear sometimes about it but it’s millions of people who have been killed raped tortured literally as we speak so it’s a genocide which has been committed for

Two years now uh and we have to stop it and we have to stop it for the sake of ukrainians of course we have to save our lives together because this is who we are as humans but we also have to stop it to prevent other genocides like this

Because it’s it’s not just Putin other dictators are watching other terroristic regimes are watching and as I said it’s the North Korean missiles that are flowing into Ukraine right now it’s Iranian drones that are used against our civilians so thank you for making that personal um imagine members of our

Audience what would we like to have to call your your mom and make sure she’s alive uh in today in the middle as you say in the middle of Europe so Ambassador I want to ask you about ways to deal with the terrible attacks that

Ukraine is is facing and I want to start with something that’s not military but Financial 300 billion in in Russian Central Bank assets have been frozen and there’s an argument that that money which is Russia’s should be taken and given to Ukraine to Finance the rebuilding of Ukrainian territory that’s

Been destroyed what make the argument for doing that and then please in in doing so respond to the worries that people have that that would H have a very destructive uh effect on the Integrity reliability of of central banks and the International Financial system so tell us tell us why to do it

And why concerns about it are misplaced thank you David it’s a very important question which you Ukraine started raising from the day one of this horrible Invasion uh first because Russia invaded Us in 2014 and we and they have destroyed so much already in 2014 2015 uh second when they restarted this

Full-fledged War uh during the first uh full year of uh War the total Destruction as assessed by the World Bank was equal to 411 billion US Dollars and it’s just scratch of the surface it’s just the physical D destruction of the buildings so um of course we need to

Repair everything now and of course we need to reconstruct in the future and it’s just fair that aggressor has to pay for it so it’s Russian money that belongs to the Russian State it’s the Sovereign money of the country they have been frozen in a number of jurisdictions

And we’re working very hard and Ukraine is advocating uh for this money not only to be frozen but to be confiscated and provided to to Ukraine now a number of countries including us already are doing that with a private money so as you know the changes into the legislation have

Been made in the US and since the beginning of 2023 doj is doing excellent job going after the sanctioned individuals their frozen assets and through the Court decisions here confiscating them and through the Department of State providing it to Ukraine and the first amount maybe not huge but it’s very

Important that it already happened that belong to Russian oligarch Mala already was confiscated and provided to the veterans uh projects in Ukraine now the same should and could be done with the Sovereign funds and as the former minister of finance of course we all used to say that the Sovereign assets

Have the immunity and there is no way you can touch it on the other hand this is is such an extraordinary circumstances where an aggressor uh deliberately attacked a sovereign country Russia is destroying uh the the everything in Ukraine not to mention killing the people uh there is

Solid proof of not only their actions but also the results of their action destruction the dam destruction the flooding everything that they have done in Ukraine it’s not only the war crimes it’s also something they have to compensate for now you can wait until

The end of the war and the end and and going through the court system or we can go ahead and and uh work on confiscating these funds now and I’m sure it will not have any effect on uh the the broader uh system and it will not scare the normal

Countries and it will not um seed their uh distrust in in any jurisdictions that are holding this Mone money unless of course these are people who intend to attack their neighbors unjustifiably and and with without any provocation so uh this war has already and Russian’s actions has have already uh shuttered

The global system as which was built after the World War II and uh we have to also be I wouldn’t say flexible but very proactive in addressing this new challenge and this is one of the areas where I think we have to move decisively and Ukraine’s position has been uh on this

Russian assets from the day one and we’re very glad that this year we see not only the willingness but very active discussions among G7 ministers uh on not whether to do it but how to do it in the proper and legally sound way so um it’s it’s very important

To do so and I just want to also say that it’s not actually a plan B you know like I I I saw some discussions where people are saying you know instead of the support to Ukraine these assets could be used it’s it’s a it’s a part of

The plan a we do need all the support that our friends can provide to us now in order to be able to sustain the effort but we need to actively work on this confiscation so that we will have this money to compensate to people to to

Rebuild uh and it will take some time but in order to make it faster we have to work on it already now thank you Ambassador for for making the case some prominent economists including former treasur treasury secretary Larry Summers have argued that this step is appropriate and and

Urgently necessary so Ambassador I want to ask you about the the military situation we’ve seen uh Ukraine even with all its difficulties trying to take this war for home to Russia to make an impact on on Russia and Russian occupied territory in new ways over the weekend

There was Heavy shelling of the Russian occupied city of donet in the east of your country at least 25 people were killed reportedly in in that shelling Russia issued a statement calling this a brutal terrorist attack given Russian attacks on your own cities and civilians

Um that didn’t ring true uh to me but I want to ask you for your response and should we expect more attacks like the donet attack in in coming weeks and months well on dones that question should be asked from Russians because there was a Russian provocation yes

Ukraine has the right to defend itself by striking into military targets and that’s what we are doing and we will do of course more more of it uh in including uh where the Russia is uh using you know this uh uh ammo dumps and everything else but as our military

Swiftly said after Russian provocation in donet that we didn’t shell and and and those people were killed by the Russian shelling and they specifically created that provocation before the uh Ramstein meeting today before the UN meeting uh and this is frankly coming from the Playbook how to uh kill

Innocent civilians and attack innocent civilians uh rather than even when they’re fighting a very unfair unjustified unprovoked War but even War they cannot fight within the the rules of the engagement of the war they simply fight with the civilians so um you know this is one of the war crimes which uh

Ukraine will be investigating as well it’s done on our territory by the Russian forces and um you know Ukraine is developing drones and this is the one of the area where we have been successful and the range of this drones is getting bigger and bigger so that we

Can have a reach and again destroy this Ammunition Depot and Military targets everywhere on our territory and Beyond but Ukraine has never targeted civilian population and even when we are liberating our cities you can see during this two years when we liberated h on when we liberated other towns and cities

Our armed forces are making it in a very responsible way even though it actually more difficult for them and cause them uh sometimes more of their military personnel lives but trying to liberate cities so that we can protect um our civilian population that is there so this is the situation with that thank

You for for clar clarifying that there was another uh striking development over the last week and and that was two attacks on Russian uh energy loading facilities near St Petersburg far from Ukraine strategically very important um the KE post quoted unnamed Ukrainian Security Service sources as talking about how this move hampers the

Occupiers ability to sustain their forces by striking at energy the source of of Russian Revenue could you comment on um on on that attack if you can but more generally on Ukraine’s Readiness to strike Targets in Russia to make this war more costly to to Putin David I can only comment on what

Is confirmed by the Ukrainian military of course but more broadly again just to say the UN Charter allows us to defend ourself by including strikes into uh Russia’s territory on the military targets which are used against us so uh as uh more capabilities are developed by

Ukrainians we do have now uh drones that uh can reach hundreds of kilometers um you know we will do everything possible in order to defend ourselves now it’s very easy for Russia to stop all of it because this is their war of choice uh they can end it very

Quickly they can just decide to stop the aggression withdraw from our territory and that will be the end of the war uh but until then when they are targeting us when they killing us when they are uh messing all the troops and and and uh fighting and trying to occupy more and

And killing our people and torturing our people and stealing our children and doing all the war crimes against us we are left with no choice but to defend defend ourselves but even doing so again we’re doing everything according with all the international rules contrary to what Russians are doing so Ambassador in

The in the few minutes that we have left I want to ask you to step back and look at the state of this war as we near the twoyear anniversary you’re Commanding General jalni said in a remarkable interview with the economist in October that uh this war has in his words

Reached uh a level of stal bait and he warned that it could drag on for years and wear down the Ukrainian state so I want to ask you as Ukraine’s ambassador to to Washington is that accurate is is this war now in a stalemate and is there

A danger of a war of attrition that will just become bloodier and blood a I think you know both all of us from from president zansky to our chairman zi to every soldier on the front line and every Ukrainian everywhere we know that first of all we

Witness this war on a daily basis and this is a very hot War whether you look at the uh front line which is a very long active front line even during the winter or everywhere in Ukraine like today where the missiles are flying into your city and destroying lives and and

Disrupting lives for so many people people now in order to not to allow it to be a stalemate in order not to get into the situation which unfortunately Ukraine was forced to get into in 2015 the recipe is very simple on the one hand it’s weapons and support to

Ukraine more of it and sanctions and isolation to Russia and if we move not only stay the course but move actively double down in both of these directions we we can liberate our country we have shown how we liberated 50% in 2022 we have shown how we liberated literally the Black Sea in

2023 and created a grain Corridor of our own without even uh negotiating through the UN with Russia we are seeing how we are ramping up our production we we have started co-production with the US with Great Britain and others we just have to do a little bit more and stay the course

And not to allow Putin to for all of us to get tired or get uh dissuaded or think that uh uh you know it’s it’s too hard and actually it’s a very winnable war and it’s winnable soon you know we have a saying and you probably have the

Same that the it’s the darkest right before the uh the dawn uh so it’s difficult it’s cold people are losing a lot but every time I call home to ask how are they they usually asking whether I’m okay they’re very a bit and they all

Say don’t worry we can we can handle it we’ll stay the course we have to win just make sure we have more weapons and support so that’s that’s a tough and inspiring Ambassador I take it from what you said that the talk that you hear in Washington even from people who are

Friends great friends of Ukraine that maybe Ukraine should think about a kind of South Korea solution where it has strong defensible lines and the can protect the territory it holds and that territory can become part of Europe and NATO I take it that that you’re not ready for

That kind of solution you would argue that we’re that it’s not a don’t think about South Korea think about liberating all of it I don’t think I will tell you a secret but most importantly the aggressor is not ready for that kind of solution there is no such option on the

Table even to start with the intent of Putin and Russia did not change they want to occupy all Ukraine or destroy all Ukraine and uh until we deny them this possibility they will not be able to even discuss anything the only plausible peace plan is President zelinsky’s peace formula and it’s based

On the UN decisions that already have been supported in some instances by more than 100 54 countries so if we want to get to peace to just and Lasting peace we just have to double down on the battlefield and sanctions and hopefully that together with active work on the

Peace formula which as you know in Davos was attended by more than 80 countries now will all converged in one place where we could pair the battles uh wins with sanctions that will finally stop the production in Russia stop their income that they’re turning into the missiles with the Diplomatic efforts and

Solutions and we can get to peace and nobody wants peace more than ukrainians but it has to be just and Lasting peace ambass I have a last question before before we leave uh and it’s one that’s just a special outrage in this war numbers that that I’ve seen suggest

That 20,000 Ukrainian children have been separated from their families and taken to Russia and that of those 20,000 only 380 or so have been reunited with their families uh I think every parent can imagine what a nightmare that is what is Ukraine doing to try to get these children back and together with

Their families again we are doing everything we can and we asking everyone to help us the situation is even worse worse than that 20,000 is the registered cases it’s the children we have identify and we know that Russians have stolen them and trying to put for uh Speedy

Adoptions relocating them to far uh parts of Russia changing their last name so that they will never be able to return even but unless we liberate all Ukraine we will not even know how many it could be hundreds of thousands uh because we don’t know the fate of so

Many unfortunately of our Ukrainian whether they are on the occupied territories they killed they abducted into Russia and of course the largest problem is the biggest problem is with children it’s even difficult to to understand how human beings even as evil as Russians can do something like this

How can you take orphans or children or separate children from their parents and then just simply uh put them into you know in other families or put them them into what they call the re-education camps uh this is horrible that’s why the first crime for which Putin already is

Indicted and there is arrest warrant for him and for his so-called Ombudsman is exactly this the kidnapping of Ukrainian children uh so we have the initiative which is called bring uh kids back UA we are uh Gathering all the people and I’m so glad US is an active participant of

That this is the area where again we have to Pro actively develop policies because uh something like this have not done uh by by evil people since uh literally Nazi we’re doing this during the World War II so we have to locate them we have to identify them we have to

Get the all of them back and of course the chances of doing so are going to be much higher when we win that’s why you know the fate of our children is so much related with our ability to defend ourselves and winning this war our children also civilians and our

Prisoners of War which still are held in Russia in horrible conditions contrary to how we are treating their prisoners uh Ambassador thank you for a moving conversation about this terrible War as it approaches year two um we want you to come back hopefully to talk about uh better news from Ukraine thank you

For joining us today thank you very much and good day to everyone so thanks to everyone for for watching uh this edition of Washington Post Live to learn more about the upcoming programs that we have please go to Washington Post live.com thank you for joining us today to listen to

Ukraine’s Ambassador talk about this very very painful conflict