In a fascinating week in European rugby, amidst Six Nations and Women’s British and Irish Lions announcements, Welsh rugby superstar Louis Rees-Zammit has announced that he is quitting rugby to pursue a dream of playing in the NFL, aged just 22.
The decision has shocked the rugby world and sparked mass debate about what it represents for the game of rugby as well as whether Rees-Zammit can succeed in one of the most competitive player pools in world sport.
Host Ollie Little and columnists Brendan Gallagher, Chris Hewett and Nick Cain are joined by fellow rugby journalist Francisco Isaac to discuss Rees-Zammit’s move, Six Nations squads and the 2024 rugby prospects of Francisco’s native Portugal.
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A pretty fascinating week in European rugby as six Nation squads are announced and Welsh Winger Louis re samit seismic move to quit the sport of rugby and hopes of pursuing a dream in the NFL joining myself and the columnist to discuss all this as well as his native
Portugal prospects for the year of 2024 is European rugby journalist Francisco Isaac right it’s been a pretty big week in European rugby actually with some six Nation squads starting to be announced I think most of them have by this point including England and Wales uh British and Irish Lions inception for the
Woman’s game and most seismically a Louis ree samit move that has sort of shaken the rubby World we’ll discuss all of that on the rubby paper podcast today all the columnists are with me alongside European rby journalists calling us from Sunny Portugal Francisco Isaac how are you Francisco I’m very good better than
You it seems like the weather here well a lot of rain but 20 degrees so I can go to the Sea if I want and just lay there we can go to the Sea if we want as well but I think most of us don’t want
To not in minus 6 weather this is the coldest day of our wind so far the heating in my house is broken as well which is really well timed so I’m nice and wrapped up um yeah so obviously we’ll talk about your native Portugal in
A little bit um the plan want to talk about that most of the episode but we had some pretty big news coming out of the Louis ree Summit uh Corner very s it sounded like the whole thing moved very quickly but he’s obviously jetted off to the NFL Francisco I’ll start with you
How did you react to it all well it’s look I like Lou Louis emit but since the first time he started playing in his first interviews I’ve always thought that he wanted to do a lot of things in the little time he has his is a top
Athlete which is like Max 20 years and it’s not strange for me because some guys here in Portugal that are are very good at playing like r or basketball or handball sometimes get called what do do you want to fancy to go to football because you might go to the fourth
Division and with a bit of luck you can go to the third and the second who and who might might know maybe the first one and it’s not strange I know for R it is a bit but zamit is one of those new type of players that wants to do
Everything he might come back to Ray because it’s NFL is so hard to get in and for to get in you should be in American System since you are like what 10 years old and so on so it’s interesting for him I think for the the rug landscape people shouldn’t do any
Bashing or worry because it’s it’s one in a million and you have a lot of good players around to to replace him I know he’s a fantastic player but no one wins by crying and do doing the bashing and I think for him is an opportunity to get be a better athlete
And to understand there’s limits to what he can do if he can go to NFL and become a great player then it’s good for RBI because RI can prepare any type of athlete to prosper in different sports if he can’t he has always a door open
But he has start from the ground zero can say first of all by the way that this probably wasn’t a shock to readers of the rugby paper because a hat tip to Neil fizzler who um sign posted this nearly two weeks ago nobody seemed to pick up on it um Warren Gatlin certainly
Didn’t seem to pick up on it but uh the Fizz was on the case there uh I think in one way it makes perfect timing um you know I think it’s a genuine ambition of his he wants to give it a go and this is probably the one window he’s going to
Have so good luck to him it’s interesting I saw you just in terms of of of the quality of athlete that he is I saw uh in one article a comparison between him and um I think a current uh running back perhaps and his he’s
Faster than you know than than uh one of the most prominent running backs in the uh in the NFL so as an athlete I don’t think that his credentials uh are in question you know we’ve seen how quick he is in rugby we’ve seen his footwork um I think that
The problem that he’s got is that he hasn’t grown up with the sport and that will um you know be a be a a significant handicap and it’s quite interesting in some ways because I was thinking my initial um reaction to it was that I don’t like the idea of Rugby Union being
Cherry-picked by the NFL or anybody else very much and I sort of see you know maybe it’s a bit too conspiracy theory is but you know Brett gosper is now um their man in the NFL’s man in Europe and it wouldn’t surprise me if there had
Been um you know perhaps a nod and a wink to uh to his bosses in in the NFL to have a look at somebody like zamit the counter point to this is is that the success rate the conversion rate of people who’ve gone players who’ve gone
Rugby Union players who’ve gone to uh uh the NFL is is is very very low I think that the most successful one may have been Hayden Smith the guy who was uh at Saron some time ago obviously Christian Wade didn’t make the cut um and nor is anybody else who’s gone so actually
Rugby Union players might be looking at it and thinking it’s not such you know such a a a yellow brick road at all you know and um I don’t know you know Reit will have to come back and pick up his career and you’re right he’s young enough to do
So and uh he may gain from the experience in you know just a in in a personal way so um Good Luck to him but um it doesn’t look like it’s it’s going to be a massive Exodus of Rugby Union players to NFL no I think the interesting thing is obviously you
Mentioned Christian Wade there and obviously he came on the podcast and he sort of said what a lonely road difficult Road it was and he spoke about it as if he didn’t succeed with the Buffalo Bills and that is the genuine narrative or the general narrative
Rather he also despite the fact that he never made a an inseason appearance for them he was earning $500,000 a year so even the road and to say that ree Amit is going to fulfill his NFL dream yes but obviously he’s also going because it is incredibly incredibly lucrative we
Speak about um rugby successes there’s an NRL player called Jordan milata I think his name is and he’s he’s an enormous guy plays a different position to what re samit with I think he’s 166 kilos he’s on a $50 million contract and he did make so to show the
Sort of two ends of the spectrum obviously to put Christian Wade right at the bottom isn’t fair because he did make Buffalo Bill Squad but whether you make it or not it does seem like it’s it’s incredibly incredibly lucrative um so I don’t know it it’ll be interesting
To see I one of the narratives is obviously brandan you spoke about the timing but is this a kick in the face so to speak to the British and Irish Lions chewy do you think no I mean Ju Just to pick up Nick’s point about Hayden Smith
Course Hayden Smith was an American who Australian it was Australian was he yeah was he yeah cut that bit out um oh no sorry I I I thought he sort of grown up with this sport more than more than others but um but clearly not did he play he didn’t play for the
Wallabies did he um no I don’t think he did no I don’t think he did no no I reckon there’s one bloke who has made it not made it he got STS in the NFL that’s a a Kenyan guy called Daniel adongo who played for Kenya and natal sharks and he played for
Indianapolis and I reckon he’s the only absolute pure rugby convert who has started for games in the NFL as a not as a as a non-kicker I I don’t think it’s a I don’t think it’s a kick in the teeth for for rugby at all I mean if he if he
If he doesn’t make it if if somebody like ream it with his natural gifts and he does have extraordinary Pace doesn’t make it then then then clearly there there aren’t too many out there who have the who have the right ingredients um look he’s 22 give the guy
A break you know I I mean it’s um I I don’t know what advice he’s taken I don’t know who he’s been speaking to I don’t know what green lights or Amber lights he’s he’s had in terms of making this decision there has been a fair bit
Of anecdotal evidence that the king home crowd sort of have fallen out of love with him a little bit that they don’t they think he’s been a bit distracted and what have you um and and if you’re playing in front of the shed then that that’s that’s the last thing you need
Because they really do throw their weight behind what they would call proper honest toilers if re samit got on the wrong side of them it may have been a little bit uncomfortable for him up there I don’t know that’s purely anecdotal stuff from a couple of glosser
Supporters I know um if he has been distracted we now know what’s been distracting him um I guess but he’s you know at 22 if he’s got a bit of a dream his dad as I understand is a big American football follower um if this has been lurking
Around in the back of his mind for a while then there is no better time for him to to try and do this and and if he succeeds fantastic for him if he comes back to rugby um he may be sort of old he’ll certainly be older by definition
He may be a bit wiser he may be a bit more of a rinded sportsman for his experience there um but it does depress me that there have been quite a few negative comments and assumptions of failure and all this kind of thing and a little bit of sort of almost glorying in
The prospective failure to um to we in the big bucks over there from some quite high-profile people and and that disappoints me slightly it’s not a I don’t think it’s a kick in the teeth of rugby at all I I I I think it’s just a a great move a great opportunity
For him and if he makes the most of it then I for one will take my hat off to him Francisco what do you make of the sort of I don’t know how your NFL or American football knowledge is it’s probably better than mine I have a passing knowledge I think listeners who
Do know it will probably be able to tell that already but by all accounts samit position would be a wide receiver and you mentioned already that American football players they they grow up around the game age 10 Christian Wade when he came on said that the training
Days were 7 AM to 9 900 pm and it was spent studying the game when you weren’t out there training obviously wide receiver is an incredibly comp competitive player pool because it’s players who are fast agile good on their feet powerful um but also have the knowledge that re Summit doesn’t where
Are the sort of signs of encouragement there for someone who obviously has raw Pace has raw power but doesn’t necessarily have the inside knowledge of the game look my knowledge of the NFL nowadays is little at once upon a time I I followed a lot of the Patriots the Packers and so
On but from the standard I remember when Wade went to the bills he he was faster than zamit was at the time if we compare the ages and he didn’t make out of the the training squads and the builds so and the NFL since then has changed it became it’s more more quick
Now and the the part of the physical contest that I think zamit is ready for it but it’s this the pure SP the pure speed I think the height might be a problem for him uh there’s a lot of of talking going on I know I think only after the four the
First four months we can start doing a narrative or building something about on an idea about what’s going to be his life in well if he has gonna have a life in the NFL because until he starts training and showing his skills or what
Can do we don’t know I look I played in Portugal with a guy that was Joe Gardner he was like I never saw anyone anybody kick as good as him in Ry he will score in Portugal uh penalty kicks from SE 70 meters distance from any position of the
Field and one day the NFL came to him uh gave him like an outstanding contract and he just moved to to North America but he didn’t play one game in NFL but they hired him to teach kids how to kick and players how to kick they wanted to
Bring him his R experience and how he deal de with pressure his technique his knowledge and so on but for and when I talked with him he said but my problem was when I went to the NFL I was like 10 years behind everyone else because they
Were there in the system they are ahead they played in The Universities in the college and schools and so on so they build up this kind of recognition zamit is big in Ry or it was becom biggish but for American fans he’s a nobody and because well it’s a country big as hell
A lot of sport Sports a lot of people playing American football and now a new guy comes to comes in and they’ll say okay it’s a it’s just uh not the new guy yeah it’s look the expression I heard from a American friend of mine he said he’s a
Tourist yeah he’s a tourist when when you say height as a wide receiver I mean zamit about 6 foot three I think so he’s not small you know I mean he’s quite a big guy it’s ex exactly is too big oh okay okay I think he’s more likly
Positioned if he makes it it will be as a a kick returner the guy who receives the kickoffs because that is the most natural position for a rugby union Wing you get the ball you’re 70 80 yards out You’ got four you know depending on how the blocking goes you got three four
Five blocks to beat so I think that is more whereas the wide receivers quite a technical position you’ve got to be plugged into exactly what your team and colleagues are doing and that will take more experience so we’ll see I mean we’ll see in the next couple of months
How it works out well as referees don’t blow up for forward passes anymore every rugby Wings there yeah I’ll tell you what though I mean we we laugh about it but it is unbelievable the stuff that’s going on is just unbelievable you’d say that you know almost 25% of passes of of tries
Are scored off off off forward passes they’re flat they’re flat they’re all flat passes Nick all flat yeah yeah backwards out the hands backwards out the hands what the biggest lie in sportting history how we ever allowed ref and the world rugby to con people about this
It’s a complete lie on on on a long floated path there is I mean it’s physics isn’t it I mean there is a drift so yeah you can still aim it backwards to negate the Drift But but it’s the it’s the little contact passes which are which which travel which travel 18
Inches yeah and and to apply the same laws of physics to something that’s gone 18 in to something that’s gone 20 yards floated over the top it’s complete nonsense and you know as well I mean as as sure as eggs is eggs they’re being coached to do it oh
Of course yeah you’re watching warmup you don’t see a legal pass in the warm-ups of course of course anyway we got we got we got diverted died particularly bad weekend for it it doesn’t really matter because most English centers don’t pass backwards or forwards they just they just they just
Crash it up and get a yard over the gain line yeah back on Manu langi Chris I heard you’re gutted that he’s injured for the start of the Six Nations yeah I’m speechless with disappointment this this is yeah we get saying he’s speechless on a t-shirt
Please doesn’t work on a podcast so does it no it doesn’t it doesn’t we just got confused listeners um just to sort of return to the course a little bit I just have one more question on Reit before we move on obviously very different incidents but you have aend Del extending his contract
Abroad foul potentially going to ring re samit obviously leaving rugby and saying you know a temp maybe temporary goodbye to Wales Lions whatever may come with that we don’t know is there are we treating these I’ll go to Brendan are we treating these are separate incidents or is there a little
Bit of a correlation between intern International rubby between World Cup Cycles not necessarily being a pinnac that’s what it is three months after World Cup is when I think you’re going to get these sort of moves because the safety net of if it doesn’t work you can
Get back and still get back into World Cup connection or you’ve got somebody who’s reached that World Cup mentally they’re they’re not quite retired but they think that might be it in terms of international career and now with r Union so now what can I do where do I
Want to play where can I earn more money where do I want to live so I think it’s a pretty natural thing I I don’t think I wouldn’t be too alarmed by it uh and they all slightly they’re all in fact they’re very different um uh case suit
You know case studies so uh you no reason for alarm but it happens after World Cups yeah also don’t don’t you think that the world is the world is just changing I mean it’s it’s it’s a it’s a real I mean not not just in rugby I mean England’s
Best football player has never played for an English Club has he or not in the Premier League Belling J Bellingham yeah he started them didn’t he yeah um um you know the the the cricket guys are are doing what doing what they do now um Japan’s going to be an Ever bigger pull
Because you you can you can almost smell the money piling into the the Japanese jaese top league and and it’s you know that the ship has the ship has sailed I don’t I don’t think that you can can close your borders so to speak to use
The phrase of the week I think it’s very very difficult um now because players are gonna pretty much look after themselves and if the pay differentials are big enough then they’re going to follow the money well speaking of England football players Harry Kane has said he’d love to play in the in the
NFL don’t know if anyone had heard that Francesco Christiano Ronaldo make the switch his body’s young enough oh God no please no no no look if if Harry Kane is so desperate to win a title go play darts or something but or snooker you might have
A a chance because look I I I WR about football and everyone is like laughing but never see laughing with the possibility of Bayern Munich not winning the the Bundesliga this year which would be horrible for Kane um to go to a new club that supposedly wins every every
Year the league and in his first year he doesn’t win it the Kane curse it’s well you start you started with the cane curse so but but Ronaldo going to the NFL please no let he finish his his tenure in football and that that that’s it I think should go I think Ronaldo
Should go to the NFL he here’s a man who needs to maximize maximize his earnings while the Going’s good EXA is completely the it’s a short it’s a short career you know you have to earn your money somewhere he’s got a family to look after to be fair and I’m not sure he’s
Set to do that yet Chris no just well just a couple of uh Nick you mentioned a wide receiver that Reit was faster than so that I think you’re talking about Tyreek Hill who is one of the biggest um names in the NFL at the moment I think he was recorded at
23.2 miles per hour and re’s been that was um on the pitch and Reit has been recorded at 24.2 I think so was it okay on Pitch stats are a decent way higher granted he’s not wearing massive um American football padding and I’m sure there’s research about how that slows
You down but there’s definitely potential there and obviously as you will at home we’ll be keeping a very very close eye on it um yeah so Francisco sorry we delayed the Portugal discussion a little bit because of bombshell but let’s get into it now um I suppose it’s best to Journey back
Because we haven’t spoken about Portugal too too much since um the Rugby World Cup let’s Journey back to that win against Fiji and just talk about the impact it had back home for us obviously Heroes welcome back to the country you had Thomas Appleton meeting Ronaldo um
Yeah just just what did it do for you guys as a rugby Nation well first thing first things first uh it brought scrutiny so and this I think is important for anyone listening is the union can’t do what it it did after 2007 our first World Cup so
Was doing a lot of shenanigans at the back door now now with the lot of the tension that the team caught after with the World Cup uh the general public uh asked questions for example why don’t we have a national coach why we don’t know
Who’s going to be on the team why is that what’s that Etc and that’s important that’s the how you build Su success without scrutiny and you being serious what you’re doing is in the part of the management um no team like imination can can grow and I think
Portugal now after this successful World Cup because we won a game for the first time ever and we were competitive from the first game to the last um there’s more pressure on the Union uh I think there’s less pressure on the players because they have shown they can do it
With the right conditions and structure they just need now there’s that the national coach and staff exists so they can still push on and well the next to fight for the next battle which is to reach georg’s level and today so today is Thursday have announced Richard Cil so it’s going to
Be massive for Portugal looking out for the next four years what what was the story with um Lis I mean pardon me if I should know this but I I mean on the face of it he did an extraordinary job uh with with with Portugal they performed as you say they were
Competitive right the way through that Pool stage um you know they had a points difference at the end of it 39 they were 39 points down on points difference which is a hell of a lot of a a tit margin than any of us would have
Expected um you didn’t go down by that much against Wales you didn’t go down by that much against the W ofies you drew against Georgia you finished about the M the table and then you and then there’s no legit what happened could have beaten could have beaten Wales yeah for sure
You know could have beaten well so so what happened what what was the story behind the leis Department was it his idea your idea well not you personally but well Chris you want me to have Pro to face problem so I but I’ll tell the story uh before the World Cup it seemed
Last G was already going to leave the union because he wanted to retire and just help like Federal four or something like that and small clubs and help new coaches and players coming through the Gap through the stages to get to Pro stage but after the World Cup and he
Start giving a lot of interviews which was not normal for L skip in this last four years so he had an great respect for the union and for the players so he kept his mouth shut and he started saying he could have stayed if the union
Just did one thing was um fire or resign or just push aside someone who is in the in the structure and because they didn’t do that L didn’t want to stay because he fought against that person for a lot for for years he didn’t want to have a a head a new
Headache for another four years and I know like SK from interviewing post matches and talking to him pre-m matches I know he is a fire a fiery person so he’s not like only educated a gentleman he is he has a lot of Boom inside of him he’s a
B yeah exactly that he’s a basque and well in some super super Cup games and I work for Ry Europe when the port the L weren doing well and the match official uh sign a penalty against L you could see L skill like going bull like a bull
Ra and you look like okay this man’s gonna eat everyone alive so best best he was a wing no yeah but a feisty one I can and after after the World Cup he just didn’t want to stay in a union who he would have to battle against someone
In the structure for four years and I get that and it was very clear in the interviews it was because of one person and if the Portuguese Union wanted to progress they needed to redefine the way of thinking the mindset U the way they work with players because at the end of
The day that effort everyone did for the last three years and especially for the last four months so between July and October um to to replicate it the unit should should change how they operate and lar fear they would wouldn’t do that so he so Francisco you’re from what you’re
Saying your your feeling about them going forward must be a little bit pessimistic you you you know you must be a little bit worried that not going to build on it yeah I’m always worried with that because I was in that generation of 207 I saw the team going and everyone was
Expecting like a new age for Portuguese Ry and what we had in the end was we went down uh in Rabia Europe Championship we went to the trophy division which was like I can say was one of the darkest days in Portuguese R suddenly we lost the World Series the
Seventh we were kicked out because we finished last and on the RAB Europe Championship We we played last like 16 years we were we got into the relegation spot and it was not normal uh four just five years after world six years after World Cup um it was massive and of course
Everyone is afraid of it I think it won’t happen the the same degree of damage because we have a lot of great players now we don’t just have four or five playing in the pr or in the National we have like almost 50 players playing between the top 14 at the
National one the so it’s there’s players there’s good stuff the problem now is how serious want the union wants to take this and larges SC interviews and being so vocal of what is wrong with the Union I think is important because it took a the you had to take that meeting and
Start to change a bit even if it’s just to to fool some some people but they have to change because investors and sponsor won’t give only the money because the team went to the World Cup they want to see a project a plan so what Portuguese R want to do I
Know this because I talked with one of the a possible future top sponsor they said we want to know what they want to do for the next 15 years so not only four years we want to know what where they want to go what they want to do
What they want to do with the men’s and women’s uh teams Etc and so right now and you see the new stuff we don’t have a national coach Danielle orat came in as an consultant with stean menzes who who coached urugai in the world cup and H who coached
Brazil and that was due because World rabies was in that Union had no idea what we were doing and they almost forced them in to help the union until they picked someone from a list that world already said okay here’s the list now you’re going to pick someone from
That list and and choose the next next head country because we can’t lose Portugal the same way we did in 2007 and I think it can be at the same times uh Dreadful but I think with a bit more attention from everyone especially from people from the tier one sides um portal
Is changing a bit this wouldn’t be the um this wouldn’t be the first instance would it of um of a national Union not keeping Pace with in in terms of its ideas and attitudes not keeping Pace with the St top strata or with the professional strata or semi-professional
Strata the top strata of of of players and coaches in the country I mean I I think Nick you probably agreed that Argentina went through a big spell of this didn’t it yeah yeah yeah they did um but I think that their you know that their situation wasn’t helped because
Um uh they co-opted Graham Henry at one stage and um he uh he sort of took a different view to scrummaging to the traditional Argentine view yeah and their great scrummaging tradition was um watered down until their just also rans in that regard now but before but before
That though Nick I mean I mean when the Argentine Union was determined basically to main amate main amateur yeah um I mean the the the conflict between between senior Union figures and D peash shot whatever you think of G but you know that generation of pumers yeah that that was that was a
That was a war you know yeah but you know it is still I mean I think that it would be fair to say that it is still you know largely uh almost an amateur sport in uh in Argentina you know and so that that those attitudes still prevail and if you
Look at it most of Argentina’s players are being funded by you know by the rest of the world yeah yeah Francisco as we’ve got you here um a couple of questions from me firstly how confident are Portugal of filling a representative side against England a in that match given that it’s the week
Before what could be a very important rugby Europe semifinal for you and also the prod teams don’t always release Portugal players for nonre weekends and secondly have you got any updates on uh some of the guys we thought had retired like Mike tajer did say he’d retired but
He’s playing again for Massie would he be available um is Samuel Marquez still G to make himself available the carrot of the South Africa match this summer so what’s the the latest gossip on player availability for the England a match and and going forward so um starting with the England
A match is going to be also a Portugal a a team so I don’t know who’s going to make another team I know it most of the players that part the national um or even Tomas hon for example but Tomas I don’t know because I
Want I know he he wanted to play but their focus is to play against Romania in the weekend before which in Bucharest which is going to be uh uh decisive match because whoever loses that that game and if they win the previous two will get to play against
Georg and tii who no one wants to play against Georg and tii uh with a full full on Georgia but I guess England a I don’t know who’s going to be on the team I know might be a combination of some of the players that were in the world cup
But with a lot of newcomers guys that want to get a place in the the next three year World Cup cycle and so on and that’s the big question we don’t know who’s going to be the staff for that game because they’re going to be in Bucharest so they’re gonna fly
Immediately after to to England we don’t know it’s as you see it’s big question about the the players being released by the pr size in top 14 and so on um that’s a very good question because I know that most of the of the clubs are forced to
Do it and I think they willingly will do it but for example Juan Nori which has one of the props that Portugal needs which is cod Tomas uh might not come because isn’t on blast on PR and they want to try to avoid relegation at all
Cost yeah so he might want get the chance to come uh but the other players they want to come they just want and from what I know so I’m not going to put anyone on S here they only want to come if there’s a project and a real uh idea
For the next four years because coming just to save Portugal they want to do it but it will give a bad example and every time the union the unit calls for come save us they have to come so we’ll see what happens with them I know Mike tajger
Might come he he couldn’t handle the retirement for two months straight it was too mucho why am I not surprised at that it was too much for him I had a laugh with him because when I saw a photo of him uh with Massi old shirt I
Said you’re going back to your your origin aren’t you and he was and he just sent an emoj laughing and said okay he’s GNA go back to to playing for at least one season but Samuel Mar I don’t believe he’s coming back Samuel wants to two years for beier and we’ll see after
It but Samuel did his time with Portugal helped Portugal to go to the World Cup help portug winning against and now I think the ma the major goal for him is to not only help beier to try to go to the top 14 but also to become
One of the top 10 uh Mo uh top 10 players to have scored more than one 1,000 points in the in the the prod which would be massive he will be one of the only 12 guys that done it and he’s very close to top 10 can you just talk
Me through the um the fixtures that you say that this this key fixture against Romania um is a week before or or just a few days before the England a game is it oh the problem is even if it was two weeks before and I’ll give you the
Schedule is Portugal is only allowed five intern five uh weekends of international calls for the prod do of 140 for the professional sides right that game against England a is sits completely outside of those five games it can happen if Portugal decides for example against Belgium or po not to put
The best players but that’s a risk so can I just ask you that that game is outside the uh the world rugby uh International release period is it it is it and it isn’t if Portugal wants to to to trade with a prodo sites that weekend for like game with Poland
They could they could do do it but imagine if Port Portugal with Poland something major happens and Portugal loses points over against Belgium in the first game of Arabia Europe championship and they don’t well for me the and for much I like England and a tier one sides
Our main focus must be the r Europe Championship it’s yeah of course when is the game if they if they beat Romania when is the game against Georgia the the game against Georgia if Portugal loses to Romania they they get to play Georgia because I don’t think Georgia this season going to lose
Against Spain or Netherlands okay in the future let’s see what happens but it it’s only in March but the game Romania Portugal is on the 17th of of of February so you know it it’s really quite interesting in some ways because we we talk about the importance of teams like Portugal getting enough
International exposure and yet on the same at the same time we’ve got this issue where OB obviously the Portuguese players are earning their living playing for you know either top 14 or prod2 um clubs and it is a conflict of interests of significant proportion for Portugal
After this world cup to beat I mean the highest profile uh game that they’ll they’ll have perhaps outside uh um if they if they do play Georgia would definitely be England a if they would to beat England a with a strong side it would it would
Rattle cages it would make it would send a real message that Portugal are picking up and going to go on so you know there are you know there are definitely issues around this aren’t there there are there are issues look if our only big picture this year would be
England a I’ll be full on board with you in that but we have the spring box in the summer also uh then I think maybe Italy and Tonga and it’s going to be the top and Port later on so the problem is for now portug there’s a lot of fixtures
We don’t know who’s we don’t have like uh a signed stuff it’s just borrowed from World Ry and we don’t know who’s the team who’s who who who retired who’s still in Project nothing and for a nation like Portugal it’s complicated look look to Georgia cockril took almost
Two months wants to be announced by the union but I get why they do that because they were deciding with the the next 10 years even if reach a c the stat only four years they want to know what is the next stages for them so they did try to
Accelerate things they don’t try to speed up the process they wanted to know what who’s going to be the players from the u20s who going to come to the seniors who’s playing the top 14 prod the primers ship wherever they are Etc so that’s a way to do it Romania is
Trying to get their their bearings again with David J and the great stuff they have also and for Portugal it’s completely the opposite we have the players so the Manpower but the rest is failing at the moment so we can have games against England Ireland South
Africa New Zealand Etc if we don’t have what is like a main platform like steady platform for the players to hold on it doesn’t matter how many fixure you have platform and that platform just isn’t there at the moment by the sound of for
Me it is I know we have now orad helping out outside of it because how they way the way they everyone announced it and I announc him as the caretaker coach because it for me is what it seems but it’s not the guy who’s going to hold the
Team for for four years just for a couple of months that doesn’t work for for a professional player and for the prod2 sides that work like the premier team when you go to them and ask okay the player has to be released for this game against England a and they say Okay um
For what reason who’s the head coach and you don’t have a head coach like lki because lki talked a lot with the the clubs in France yeah yeah that was his great yeah yeah and I know he’s sited with the clubs explain we need this guy for this weekend next weekend we don’t
Need him so he can get back to the team after the game so can play for your club and Etc at the moment we don’t have that that French Connection is it’s crucial at the moment it’s crucial and for now at the moment imagine if we win against England but we
Lose against Romania Spain South Africa by 100 points Tonga by 40 points and against Italy five 50 points what have we won from that sure no I mean when I when I said that England a game just in terms of publicity and obviously going forward those other games
Are all extremely important Italy and South Africa huge games for Portugal you know um but uh yeah it doesn’t sound it sounds as if uh you probably need a very well-connected new French coach Bernard laort man he’s got he’s got connections all over the place no no
Merc for much respect I have for the man I wanted in was patri and after it the guy they picked was Sebastian that everyone didn’t know who was but who who was a man but he was very well connected in France with a lot of clubs with a lot of people he already
Had he had a already a list of 25 ESP players that were coming to the top 14 sides that could play for Portugal and he was fired two weeks after it because well I’m not going to announce it but it wasn’t be for the reasons that the union
Says and and he chose to be the a gentleman and said okay let the union say their story I will hel hold until the end of my life with mine but I C and that’s a problem for Portugal after the World Cup we had the world everyone
Everyone watching us and after one month we fired the new coach PL starting to give interviews with all the stories of the last four years um and you can see that players were worried the Lanos franchise didn’t do well this season and I had I had a lot of calls and messages
Asking why isn’t dtin n David Costa and other players that were in the World Cup playing for the team and I couldn’t answer it I know they they didn’t play because they were tired and they want a project from the union and the union didn’t present to them so at the moment
Now it’s they had must have to to show a project to the players so they can give their bodies to to the national team because playing against playing against Belgium and Poland to the nowadays is even if Portugal wins by 80 points it it hurts Belgium and Poland hurt playing
Like in the scums and tackling against Romania the new Romania is going to be very complicated Spain is all already growing back Georgia is what is every time and even Netherlands are showing signs that it can go big in the next 10 years so Portugal can just sit on this
The merits of having 40 players playing abroad because it at the end of the day it won’t save them in at at the long term and I give you example Tomas applon which is for me one of the best players in the team after the World Cup he should have
Rested but he continued to play it was his decision but you could see he was not the same player and I’ve told him this uh I think they should have rested because there are no not pro players in Portugal they see me Pro at Best But
Like guys from Appleton the rest of the play the most majority of players in portug are amateur and no resting in our with rap Europe championship and a travel to Africa which is never simple it’s going to be hetic everyone wants to talk to them to
See them they have to do trainings they have to do sessions and so on and get play against spring BS which are which is going not going to be fun because of spring BS don’t know how to have fun they just just know how to
Win and big I don’t know it’s up to them because I look at I I I’ve been writing about Georgia and Romania for the past two weeks and I can see they are trying to think professionally at least the staff tries to think professionally we have to do this this this
This year zero year one year two year three four lki fought like this it was his mindset and now there’s no Lis and that’s Francisco it all sounds a bit fraught at the moment and I’m also thinking I mean it’s only 15 months ago that you were having a huge effort for
The qualifying tournament in Dubai uh which was kind of out out of the um International window big big dedication from the players then you had the incredible effort to get fit to improve the Fitness in the fitness camps which seem to go on all summer then you had
The World Cup itself then the guys are straight back playing in prod dur six days later five days later a lot of these guys could could be running on empty a bit and and then sudden you’ve got all these playing challenges so it’s it’s quite a fraud time it feels like to
Me it is but it’s the same thing for the fijians or Georgian Romanians I’ve talked with some guys from Georgia and after it was like Sam Marks two days after the World Cup they were already on practice getting ready for a game for the top 14 of the and it I asked them
Were they said to me we weren forc it was our option but but because the club have a help have which which stood with us for the last four months we were away we have to say this our way to say thank you we have to be professional at this
Point of course when the r Europe championship starts I don’t know how they’re going to handle it because they have to come back and forth back and forth and that takes a beating out of their bodies and the first time they were trying to rest which is this one there’s no rest you’re
Going to to Africa or Georg is going to play against uh Ur Uruguay and other teams so it’s difficult and at some point you could see you could see that some players don’t come for some games like for example vashan it’s not going to play for Georgia in in the pool stage
This year he’s going to play for to long he’s going to focus only his because he wants to win a contract and but everyone was honest about it I want to stay in t long for the F for until March after March I can help Georg in the
Semi-finals and finals if you want me but I’ve known the history in Portugal and every time I play player does this some people spin it the story and say this play isn’t a grateful for his country he doesn’t want to play for us he must be scrapped and I’ve seen
This happen in in the past and it happened with players like Mike tajger and Samuel marus and that tells the reason why for a long time they didn’t play for for Portugal because the way they were treated and that’s a problem with Portuguese Reby or some of the
Unions there’s a way they treat players because they don’t think them as as uh their money making thing they only look to them as like Expendable so after after it we can change another player and he he’ll do the same it’s it’s it’s never the
Same H how did you guys react to um I think I might know the answer to this question but I’ll ask it anyway how how did you guys react to the sort of reshaping of the international calendar and the um what we what we used to call in um
What we used to calling Trade union circles in this country the closed shop which is pretty closed anyway and now it’s really really closed and slammed and locked tight I mean there’s no access for any non-tier one nation into any tier one tournaments for for forever as far as I can
See well until it it stops making money after it stops making money we must create another Bonkers idea about it um you want to start fires let’s start fires I think most of the players didn’t understand what was going to happen when the decision was made after two months
They start to understand that after 2026 the the chance to play against England the Wales or South Africa is going to narrow to 0 one% and they that that got the the players worried because if we don’t play major games we only played the W and then played teams like like like us
After some years nobody’s going to watch us or follow us and Etc and that tells the story of Ry for me because people should watch these teams even if it is a Portugal Uruguay Portugal Fiji Fiji Romania Fiji whatever but the the sport has a has a problem in its in its core
And I think the only way to change that problem was to play England once once a year even if Portugal took a beating of 60 points one year in next year we lose by just 40 whatever it happens it’s part of sport to lose to learn and and to do
And to do better the next time and I think people like me who understood the proposition took it badly players only after some time understood it like guys like storyy or mad or Nicholas Martin because the youngest so they’re gonna they’re gonna have to endure a long time without
Playing against a top size guys like Mike T and S marks their time is almost over for the national team so yeah but but the people who make this decision Francisco are the very people who expect you to rock up at the next World Cup and play the house
Down again Chris look after when the voting come came out and we saw that Georgia voted in favor of the world league everyone I knew it before it and everyone was shocked how could George do this and like one month after it the CEO one of the CEOs explained that well
Because we can’t change the how the world works so they talked with us they’re going to give some games for our u18 and u20 team and maybe our French our Union franchise might play in a comp in a higher competition with Etc I think the
Unions the t2 unions are not a group and that’s a problem they’re SP you know because one year they’re very good friends the year after if they can trade blows in the back to get uh an advantage they will do it you could see I give you a small example um
Spain have been talking about doing a World Cup for like the last five years quietly but you could see in the in the news in the news there’s some every there was always a journalist I do you want to host a World Cup and someone from said oh maybe one one year because
We have the infrastructure we are close to France so we can borrow some of one of two stay in the boss country maybe do it with Italy last year one of the vice presidents of the F of the Spanish Union gave an interview they said it’s on our
Plans to do a RAB World Cup in the future we don’t know when but we want to do it and the Portuguese president of the unit who if he hears this podcast going to try to send me a message I I like mad with it but he he said in public
Interview the idea to do a World Cup in Portugal Spain was from Portugal and mine the Spanish never thought of it it’s my idea we have to do it in Portugal Spain has to come along if they want to of course the Spanish W happy
Would you be happy you had the idea you were already projecting the stadiums if venues the cities and then came another Union who was like boosted by a World Cup saying it was our the idea is ours if Spain wants to come along they should come along it doesn’t this is the problem
With the t2 size I think they don’t work as one they work separately and with that type of of thinking when you go against the home Nations it’s impossible you’re going to crack at some point it was happen with Georgia they crack and well yeah well that that’s politics
Francisco I mean I mean I mean the the the powerful the powerful Nations will always throw enough people enough bones to get stuff through they will always they would I mean that’s just that happens in every Walk of Life I guess it’s just depressing to to see it in a
In a in a game you love and you sort of think well hey where are these guys going to go they’ve been fantastic at this world cup they’ve played miles above expectations they’ve you know they’ve achieved this that and something else and they captured imaginations you know they’ve captured you know Spirit
Ambition everything you know oh I mean it’s it’s just it’s a stunning I mean let’s let’s be fair the Portuguese performance at the World Cup was stunning it really I mean I mean to to come out of a a group of Wales Australia Fiji and and Georgia with a with a
Points difference of minus 39 a draw and a in and not finish Bing with that pool was a staggering effort and to play some of the most attractive easy on the ey rugby of the entire tournament oh I mean best triers of the entire tournament they had a number 10
For a start what’s he where’s where’s he gonna be playing in the in the in the near future I mean he wants to stay in Portugal he wants to stay in Portugal this one you have some players that have I had opportunity to go to England and
To France I can say to this you I can tell you this and they refused they want to stay in Portugal because they have a good job uh they’re married already Jon is very young but already married and with the kids so very old-fashioned guy and he doesn’t want to leave Portugal
And I know that a team from top 14 asked him hey you want to come in and to do some tests because I think you’re going to do well here and he he said okay no no thank you I don’t want to and how about our favorite little fullback gues
Susz is he still injured no he’s he he’s he’s playing already he played for the lucanos uh starting November um and he’s back for the r Europe Championship but nun doesn’t want to leave Al it’s too nice a country to live in I suppose yeah which which begs the
Question the lucanos what did their um how how many of the uh of the national side actually play for them at at the moment and what are their prospects I mean I mean if if if Portugal are going to be blocked one way or the other along with other tier 2
Nations in terms of aspiration and ambition for the moment there may be another route which is obviously through European um uh Cup competitions and so on and so forth where where where does where where do they sit at the moment well that’s one of the things I appla from the current Administration in
Portuguese bra is I know they want to try to reshape L to be a full on franchise that can and not only promote players to play at a better level but to give them a career for that we need a competition we have the super the re re
Europe super cup but the unions didn’t well treat it very well so we don’t know what it what it its future of course the dream is to play in a league like the United Ry Championship I know the black Li what they did with the Scarlets and
Against cast they lost by 20 22 points but he should promise so everyone now is think thinking okay maybe these F National franchise from these two T2 countries might deserve a shot because they have they might have what it’s needed of course they need investment to
Have it so you have your local you have your local League playing into the franchise effectively yeah it it was a problem for this was a discussion for like two long decades because the clubs were fearful of having a union franchise to play some some some fixers during the
Year that was not Portugal because they thought okay this could steal our our players the players could change teams to another team and then we we would suffer the consequences but the luos did well in the first two seasons this one after the World Cup was a bad one they fish finish in
Fifth but for for example in the World Cup we had like 15 16 players came from the L Portugal and the and the other 17 were playing in France it work because of how with worked as a staff for the team so I know they they practiced very early
In the morning they went to their jobs came back at lunchtime for for gym and in afternoon a new session and they work and it worked fine because they had a goal to go to the next World Cup and they and they did with that luck that
Spain uh placed an El player in two games against Netherlands and they had that tiny bit of luck to then go to the World Cup and now it’s it’s a matter to know if the super cup continues because if it doesn’t what you do with the Lanos
You don’t have a league to play s in and if if you want to play in a league like URC we need at least three million four million to support traveling expenses lodging foods and of course payment for the players and for the staff so that’s
The but if they play in the league like in New USC I think they’re going to get investment because it’s a T1 competition it’s not a t only T2 uh tournament but that’s that’s a major question for now it’s the future that’s the main problem
With the t2 side that you don’t know the future future I mean the black the black lion side you’re quite right and so I mean they they done very well in the challenge cup they almost beat Gloucester in the first round I think they lost by a point then they gave
Scarlet’s a bit of a toweling um they went to cast and lost well that’s that’s easy that’s easily done um in in in any kind of competitive tournament but they’re only in the tournament because three English clubs went Pop I mean they were invited in to make
Numbers it’s not part of a grand plan no it’s not it’s not part it’s not part of a plan Grand or otherwise but it worked and when and look I’ve seen I’ve said this a lot as if I have been a rugby fan as long as I’ve been a football one and football
Has something that R doesn’t football looks to every continent and every nation as a new market to explore yeah so and did are not there’s no no fear and I’ve I’ve written a tweet about how many games Christian Ronaldo played against let’s say smaller Nations football-wise and he played against Finland Albania
Armenia Zambia Angola Etc so and how many times did John Johnny seon play against Portugal in his career zero and if you the teams come to Portugal to Spain to Georgia the market is go over overflow every time you go to Bucharest to play against Romania this the stadium AR D
Completely gets bunkers it’s like go goes bunkers with it and it’s rugby City but it’s overshadowed and and forgotten by by everyone because the T1 Nations don’t want to let go their power and well a game in Portugal in Spain what we would be the problem I I I couldn’t agree with
You more I mean if if you went to any of the rfu top brasset wicking them now and said Portugal were pretty damn good at the World Cup they played some really attractive rugby they call LOL the rugby imagination why aren’t we playing them well they wouldn’t s like twicken them
Okay well play it somewhere else then play it at Ashton gate I mean I know I know there are there are player release difficulties I mean the these I mean look if it was simple it would be being done probably or or it’ be a lot closer to be being
Done um but I just I simply don’t think in the tier one Nations the protectionism is extraordinary the level of protectionism is absolutely off the scale I give you an example the Portuguese handball team for between the two the early 2000s and 2015 was 14 was
Poor very poor we were playing badly the national team didn’t didn’t go to World Cups or or european competitions and after some time um they start the union started to a plan to okay let’s let’s go restart the project everything from zero and it did the team
Started I remember going to see games in Portugal Portugal versus Greece no one was on stand Stadium no one like 10 people 20 after two years 200 after more two years 5,000 and after two years I couldn’t get tickets because it was completely uh overbooked and and everybody had already booked place and
Now Portugal is doing well in World Cups and European competitions my father who never played handball in his life and only played rby and a bit of of uh U field hockey uh called me you see Portugal beat Norway yesterday what a game it was my my father never play
Handball never saw handball in his life but because Portugal is doing well and it’s always on the news the handball team it changed and the the problem with the Portuguese reg is between September and December there was a lot of rby on the TVs a lot I can say to you not only
Portugal England Wales which is not normal for Portuguese uh uh Sports culture nor normally we are football football and football that’s up to it but you had on the second Channel some games old games between Wales and England from the five nations uh yeah they were yeah because they were
Remembering because it was a time the public television uh broadcasted this five Nation games and we had a a Portuguese commentator that loved it and did awesome commentary to it and they were showing also clips from the Lobos and clips from from Fiji and other teams
And Etc and now if Portugal doesn’t do well for the next two years the the attention will going to drop and you and that’s the main problem with Portugal the Georgia does doesn’t have that problem because Ry is a national sport every I’ve talked with Becca goraz
And Lasha xani and they’ve told me since kids since we are kids or it’s basketball or rugby and some kids are like this waiting for a cach coach to come to them you want to play rby come to my team and you bring and the difference is in
Portugal that doesn’t happen because we are a football nation and after football there’s handball basketball we now have a port a Portuguese player playing playing in an NBA so it makes massive difference because every little kid wants to go to the NBA now but of course
Of the World Cup I know a lot of like uh uh sons of friends of mine want to play Ry because they saw the Portuguese team winning and and U and playing it was amazing Etc but if Portugal doesn’t play high high noticed games or doesn’t do
Well of course no one was going to play a sport that doesn’t do well so will the game against um will will the game against Romania for example will that be televised live yes yeah okay the RAB Championship is the rights are bought and broadcasted by sport TV
Which a closed channel sports channel in Portugal but the public television also broadcasts the Portuguese games so it’s good and people go to the stadi and watch it it’s quite good you obviously write about football as much as you write about rugby you mentioned that Spain and Portugal their rugby federations don’t exactly
Collaborate and they’re not particularly on on the same page what differences do you notice between the Portugal and Spain equivalents for football obviously difference is is Portugal and Spain are very much tier one Nations for football and they absolute powerhouses in the European and Global game where in rugby that’s not the
Case there was a time that we hated much more than we hate now because as Ronaldo is not playing anymore in Spain and there’s not that war between Barcelona and Ronaldo because Messi Argentina but the Spanish adopted him as his son so it’s like it was always like Portugal
Against Spain every time Ronaldo fac Messi or ronal is 33 goals oh Messi scored now 34 he’s always winning it’s something like that but there the there’s a rivalry but it’s not that much nowadays because as football is so big not I’m not saying it’s as the league is
As big as the Spanish one but because the teams did well in repeating competitions we have been in World Cups Etc there’s not that much of a rivalry it is a rivalry but it’s not like die hard rivalry to the point that we don’t talk it it’s just struck me Francisco is
I’ I’ve I’ve had a blinding flash of inspiration you guys are looking at a CO looking for a coach in rugby and Jose Mourinho is looking for a job no I want Jose Mourinho to go to the Portuguese national job a football not rugby because I love morning I’m I’m very big
Fan I went to a Roma game to watch the team play and but for r no no no after after one month I think the players will try to kill him and with the tackle they might do it so yeah well I I I I would
Pay a month’s wages to see Jose Mourinho in a scrum in a scrum in a scrum I don’t know but at the back of a scrum is a scrumhalf I would pay good money to see J Marine is a scrumhalf because with is shouting and so on will
Be very incredible but look a good example and a contrast is Portugal and Spain are trying to do a World Cup in football which they going to do they just don’t know if it’s going to do with Morocco or Ukraine uh well we are going
To do it but the free first gam is going to be hosted in South America it’s a it’s completely uh crazy idea but okay but Portugal and Spain are doing a World Cup we have the venues everything sorted right we can’t even do a project together maybe they they’re doing in the
Backdrop I I hope they doing it but I know that speaking with Spanish fans and people who work in clubs they were pissed when the Portuguese president said my the idea was mine because let’s be honest it it’s we don’t like it when someone takes credit for a job we are
Doing and in rby it seems in rby every time and this happens not only Portugal but every every nation every time there’s someone doing something special someone comes and say the idea was mine it’s like we are always trying to kill each other for a bit of of attention and
We we shouldn’t because there’s there’s a lot of platform for everyone very very interesting um just one final question on Portugal and I’m just going to ask you to put your uh take out your crystal ball obviously no head coach going into recc Georgia correct me if I remember they haven’t officially announced
Richard cooch today crail is being announced today so we’re recording this on a Thursday 18th of January is today is being I think it’s now breaking news yeah he’s just spent a week he’s just spent a week learning how to say hello in Georgian I
Mean it took him 45 years to learn how to say it in English well it’s it’s going to be very interesting to see cockell with the Georgian side because everyone said that he is bit of a bully Etc and yeah cor and the Georgians are not don’t like to be bullied but they
Like someone who tells them exactly what to do Milton hag did beautifully that lean mases did also great in it the World Cup didn’t end the way he wanted and I think Cil has all the tools and the players to do an excellent job with them I think I think the Georgians and
Richard cochu will speak the same body language I think it’s a great comb those two think so my only problem and I’ve talked this and I’m writing something about it is what’s left for Georgia after beating Wales in Italy and going to World Cups and I know their great
Objective is to qualify for quarterfinal in World Cup but between that now and the World Cup there’s nothing to achieve because they have done everything so that’s a problem they won the all the RS they won against T1 sides they’ve done well they have players playing in
The Premiership in top 14 so what’s left and the problem is is it that after 2026 they are barred from playing against T T1 sides yeah yeah it’s a brick W so I I want to understand what Richard Cil sees in the Georgia Union if it’s a platform
For him to go back to a Premiership or to the England camp or if he wants to change things in Georgia and try to show the world that Georgia should be on the main stage but you’ve got obviously Georgia have more stability and that they’ve got a head coach who by well blueprint
Accounts would be a very good match with them very different to um the Portuguese situation who do you think is going to win the recc oh that’s that’s easy uh Georgia is GNA win it okay all right so you’re sticking sticking with Georgia p Portugal final
Though uh sorry do you think it’ll be a Georgia Portugal final I I look for me it would be the perfect team because it’s in Paris and the Portuguese Community would lose their heads if it’s a final between Portugal and Georgia um I don’t know I think I’m going to bet on
PO and Romania versus Georgia this season really wow okay okay that’s very very interesting just be yeah so not necessarily feeling too too optimistic at the moment about the state of flux in Portuguese rugby no in if if the team if the old team comes and Ste Manz is in BR
You with the help of orad can while figure a plan and have storyy Mara Appleton Martin tger and everyone playing at the top level I think Portugal can go to the final yeah that’s now if Portugal doesn’t have all the team the staff doesn’t do does can’t
Create a good conditions for for the players and so on it’s difficult no I I’ve played for 15 years Ry and every time we had a caretaker coach I remember that we didn’t play as a team we played individuality because we wanted to show that to the next coach to the president
See we are one of the top I am a top player and without me the team doesn’t well so when a new coach comes tell him that I’m a good player and that’s a problem with the Portuguese side I think the players need stability to shine and
Ly deliver that so I think that’s a blue PR for the future for any to look Anie Robson was doing a good job with Romania he well his story is we we’ll never know until the day that Andy Robson shares what happened but after he left you
Could see that the Roman team did this cracked open open Andy Robson was essential for the work and how they they played and so on so without lki my fear is that Portugal cracks down and until a new head coach comes in and say okay let’s rebuild on what L and the staff
Did between in those four years and after it we’ll see what happens but at the moment it’s always uh orad is the new head coach oh no he isn’t he’s just a consultant but he was already consultant for Portugal and Spain how can he be a two-time consultant doing
Two two type of jobs and Ste M and R are here but are here to stay or here just to be oh just for three months okay and if you ask any professional player if they think this is serious ask them ask ask a player like
Joe Marler or Mari toi if they think this a serious who who who made the decision about lisk’s appointment was it World rugby or was it the Portuguese Union so you you want to hear a story I can tell you I can tell you the story
Now because L made it public so I don’t care you can do so okay so four years ago our president Carl Amad Silva was looking for a coach and he didn’t have he had some options but he wanted a French coach because he knew that the the perfect guy would be someone from
France that knew the players that could bring them in and show confidence talk to them because talking in English is it’s it’s cool but you lose something in Translation and with the French guys and I know some well marketing Mike T can speak Portuguese and they and they do
But when you speak French quickly with them it’s better especially when you’re trying to bash them and saying stop with this the shenanigans please and I knew that he was looking for it at the same time L du who was one of L right men in Portugal was having a dinner with a
Former uh Spanish uh Union president and they were told walking and he said um Portugal is looking for a head coach and the DU said okay lki might want to come back to the big leagues because he’s done play being in the federal six maybe
He might want get to go on it and he said okay here’s the number give to LK and he and he can call the Portuguese president okay L gave to lki lki picked up the phone with no problem whatsoever and called caramal Silva and said okay
My name is Pat I know Portugal is is looking for a head coach I’m very keen on working with you if you want I we can uh do a meeting to set up things and if if you if you want me to come in and carada Silva might he was in the middle
Of a lot of things because the union was re in the m in the middle of a restructure moment said okay uh but send your CV please so we know so we can know who you are and so on and was like um okay I’ll send you my CV
But uh I’m patri you know me from I know no yes yes yes uh I send it and car Silva when the light came to his head and said okay I know who is Patrice Las we’re going to sign him on the moment and they sign him I can see Patrice Las
Was winning a low wage because he want he just wanted to work with Portugal he didn’t want he was not looking for money or exposure he just wanted a last job that he could say he was happy with r because the last one he had was with
France in the 25 World Cup yeah and ended in the worst possible Manner and he was a bit distraught and it took almost four years who him to he said again okay let’s go back to to the game and Portugal opened the door lki well lki came through the door without asking
Nothing to anybody and that’s the story about it and I can tell you something the first it was nothing to do with World rugby it was to do no okay now now I know it’s to do World R is now on the job to H to get the Portuguese coach the
One that Portugal want and so on but at the time it was nothing to do world world world R because L SK was not did asked for that much money and the unit could pay that the amount he asked for uh and expenses and I know that the
First training he had with the players and he had like with 40 players that were only playing in Portugal and he said uh look with me is going to be serious for the start I’m going to give you the conditions to do well so going to practice early but we trying to find
The money to pay you Etc but you’re going to be serious if you don’t want to be play like a pro with me and to hear me out and to be focused on this you can leave there’s no problem but with me it’s going to be 100% until the last
Moment and we and we’re going to do well of course they failed to qualify for the World Cup at the first moment but then there was a miracle well I call it a miracle the Spanish call it the worst the second day worst day ever but it
Happened and well the story of the World Cup was written and I think well last I think the game against spring boss would be would have been perfect for him but it’s what it is and I think he left in the best possible manner for me okay
Well look I think I speak on behalf of not just um all of us on the podcast but everyone in European rugby because Portugal kind of became everyone’s second teams barring maybe Fiji but in the European landscape we all want to see your brand of rugby um very much in
In the thick of it we’re really looking forward to the England a game um so yeah hopefully they put up put put on a a good show in the recc and that continues um you know the old cliche of continuing momentum into the summer hopefully that very much keeps going um Francisco we’re
Going to talk about the England squad for 20 minutes or so I’m not going to condemn you to being bored by our discussions there um but thank you so so much for joining us and yeah we look forward to keeping closeup we’ve got Thomas Appleton coming on the podcast in
A few weeks actually uh just after the England a game so we look forward to speaking to him and well we’ll say hi on your half oh and and just to say Francisco that um that I’ve just heard from Wales that they’re interested to know if portella has any Welsh Grand
Parents well I don’t I don’t know portella is a very Portuguese name but I can I can ask him if he wants to play for Wales let’s let’s see with Appleton you can do a question to to him to make him laugh a bit is who who is the best
Player at it at their Peak if him or his brother Francisco who lives in London so okay okay because they played in the national team together they some years apart but they played together and it’s an interesting question to do to Tomas he G say Francisco does Francisco still
Play Then in London or is he retired no he he he retired he’s an old boy now is he he’s an old boy now amazing list Francisco thanks a million for you know dropping in today it’s been brilliant here and we know what a great job you do
With the AR and T you know tier 2 rugby in Europe we rely on guys like you to keep us informed and know what’s happening 100% thank you very much brilliant speaking to you great fun very good to speak to you right take care take care Francisco cheers thank you bye bye
By right um Chewy’s walked off I don’t really know why the door the dog went for a piss I thought you’d had enough discussion as well uh we’ll talk about the England squad for 15 15 minutes or so um it was announced God I lose track
Of days at the moment yesterday I think it was yesterday yeah Wednesday Jamie George captaincy so probably quite a conservative Choice uh very different to whale the the route Wales have opted for um Nick any well you usually have some things to pick apart with it so I won’t
Say any surprises but what did you make of it well um he he Jamie George wouldn’t have been my Choice as Captain I’ve um I’ve backed marot toi’s credentials all the way um I’m a little bit concerned that uh he might George might end up given it you know an age
Profile of 33 in the same boat as Harley um with young guy like Theo Dan breathing down his neck and Luke C and Dicky coming back into uh into the frame and fitness so that that’s one thing um I um look o overall I sort of think that
There’s I’m quite surprised by you know by um some of the uh players uh brought in there are very few one of the things I noticed is just how few uh Wings there are um you know I mean Freeman’s obviously a utility but other than Freeman I think that there’s um there’s
You know there’s just Tom robach and um uh Emanuel F woso and that’s that’s that’s virtually it um so I think that there’s there are there are issues with the backline some of the new forwards I like um uh Chandler Cunningham South I don’t know enough about Ethan Roots um I
Think he’s he’s certainly rugged I don’t know whether he’s got the the uh the pace um for for for the international game I was quite surprised when um I heard that borwick had it was Richard Hill who sort of was looking at a a clip
Of um of Ethan roots and said come and have a look at this guy and uh he seems now to have you know have burst into the firan there’s so much um to be proved after the World Cup you know they’ve got to change the way that they play they’ve
Got to produce a a style of rugby that you know that that gets England supporters infused by the way that they’re playing and that didn’t happen at the World Cup and the argument that they are not the third best team in the world will no doubt trickle trickle
Onwards but they definitely aren’t yeah yeah so um yeah that’s my my initial take on it and um lots of you know lots of conundrums you know I mean Ford or or Marcus Smith or Finn Smith for that matter um just we have Maggie Smith yeah
No no Maggie Smith I mean the big the bigger mission is surely Joe cck and a singer um although immediately having said that I can see possibly he had a very poor game defensively and didn’t in the first half against rassling but then as he does he came back with some big
Plays so I can possibly see why he hasn’t gone from him there I mean I the thing is as Nick says the hard work Starts Now really you know the selection issues haven’t gone away they’re still the same so what do you do with something like I mean George furbank is
The formed player in the Premiership this year you could play him at 15 you could play him at 10 where he’s played for Northampton obviously that’s not going to happen you could play him at 12 to me he’s Nick Tomkins he’s England’s Nick Tomkins given that England can’t
Have Nick Tomkins even though he’s English I mean George furbank could play anywhere and I was amazed to see him absolutely obliterate Andre EST house and when they played quins he buried him three or four times you know he’s that very tough tackler I think England are
Gonna have to find room for him somewhere now whether it’s a straight shootout between him and Freddy Stewart at fullback or something really radical as you know I think Freddy Stewart could be a 12 I think George furbank could be a 12 but got Henry slay in form uh they
Absolutely mustn’t pick oie Lawrence at 12 he has to pick it play at 13 and the other player I’m delighted who is in and I’ve only really picked up on him in the last couple of months and every time I watch him now he’s the player of the
Match and that’s Alex Kohl’s for Northampton he is a young Courtney Lords he’s got it all he’s got line out he’s got tackling he’s got strength he gets around the park he’s got attitude um so again that’s going to complicate things for England I don’t think they really
Thought thought of him as a starter two or three months ago I definitely think he’s in the mix now as a starter somewhere um so I think it’s a pretty sound selection uh but the hard work Starts Now chewy any names to add to that list about well names you’re excited about or
Emissions th and a singer was my big one I’m disappointed not to see Mercer in there um uh I mean I know he had like a public shrugging off from Alex dbrand in the big game but I can’t believe that any intelligent coaches based decisions around one incident he also made about
4,000 carries in that game for Gloucester so um so I mean something’s gone on there for sure I mean you know I’m not saying there’s there’s like a personal falling out between him and borwick but they clearly don’t see I to ey or borwick doesn’t see M’s style as
Something which is going to add value to his England selection besides that I completely agree with with Brendan I think had close has had Sensational few weeks as of Northampton and and Quinn are playing some terrific rugby and there are a lot of players in both clubs
From those two clubs in in in the shakeup which is good from that point of view it’s an intelligently selected evidencebased you know um um Squad I don’t have a problem with it at all my my issue will be how do you create an environment or a style
Play which which gets the most from a Northampton and Harley Quinn’s contingent who play at a very high Tempo and they playing a lot of counterattacking stuff from all over the field in fact they’re doing loads and loads of stuff that England haven’t done for God knows how long and you know
Richard W Wigglesworth for whom I have great admiration I had great admiration as a player very intelligent player um but he’s you know he’s the guy running the attacking game supposedly and I I don’t quite see much of Nick Evans or Sam vesty in Richard Wigglesworth not just not in the
Mindset um you know Wigglesworth was a brilliant percentage scrum half who did all the right things in all the right places to maximize any advantage that you were exerting up front um that’s not the way Northampton L quins play particularly they do other things so if you’re going to pick their players are
You going to say come in and do what you do at Club level in so far as you know you can do it within a single structure or are you going to have to shift focus and do some other things that we want you to do because we want you to play
This sty of rugby so as ever you know they might have the right players but would playing the right game for them I don’t know just on Jamie George I I slightly disagree with Nick I I can see his point but I think I think Jamie George
Is a Feelgood individual I mean he’s a world’s nicest blo Jamie I mean and that’s not disparaging in a rugby sense he is a really good bloke he is exceptionally popular as far as I understand it he certainly was it’s sarson’s uh you know when I was in the
Front line of doing the the day-to-day stuff you know no one ever had a bad word to say for Jamie he is pretty vocal I think he can encourage people and press the right buttons in the right way I’m sure he’ll be absolutely brilliant at um at at playing that link between
The players and the coaching staff um and he’s a very very good player still he might be a yard past his best now Jamie actually but he he he’s a very good player and he’s still the best line out thrower um you know so as far as I’m
Concerned I don’t have a problem with with with the captaincy decision I just hope that England look into player style which is going to maximize the talents of the people in the squad it toi’s dropped off a little bit um over a period he came back um during the World
Cup he’s been playing well in a Saron side that isn’t playing very well in terms of the player the England player over the last six years there is one guy who stands out as a world class forward and that is itogi and that is why I
Would have picked him I don’t I don’t I don’t I I mean if you’re going to make the judgment on on on for form and ability and sort of achievement and all the rest of it I mean he has been England Stand Out player and he’s an
Articulate man as well for for quite he’s a very articulate bloke what I don’t know and and and I mean I really it I’m not raising this because I sort of have my suspicions what I don’t know is how popular a figure how cohes of a
Figure he is behind the scenes with his you know with his teammates is he a sort of man of the people type guy I I mean he he he he may he may be in that environment a rather patrici figure he’s a highly intelligent bloky toj and I you
Say extremely articulate it may be that he could be one of those captains who’s got a bit of separation from from the players that he’s as I say a rather patrici type Jamie George wouldn’t be that Jamie George would be right in the thick of the Common People kind of thing
Um so I I don’t know I don’t know whether they think that Ito carries enough of a load given his preeminence as an England player in recent years not to Chuck something else on his shoulders that may that I mean that’s perfectly reasonable if if if that’s a reason I
Don’t know why he’s not Captain but there must be a reason and um because if you were just doing it on you know we’re g to give our best player to Reigns then Mariot to is the best player in England as well and I I I guess there must be a
Reason around you know [Â __Â ] a singer and Mercer as well you know there are aspects of it where you could see that players that they didn’t quite uh sort of catch light if you like with Eddie Jones coconut Seager were certainly one and um so was Ben Earl yeah so was
That’s that is a difference you know Earl has come on uh with with bwick but um you know I mean I I I don’t know about about what yourself and Brendan think but I don’t really want to see him playing number eight um you know in this
Six Nations I don’t think that it’s ultimately he’s a very very good number seven that’s where a good chance now for him to play seven with Tom Curry absent yeah yeah I mean I mean Sam Sam under Hill you know when he plays for bath is’s playing exceptionally well and I
Mean and Richard Hill going back to your comments about Richard uh and and and and and Ethan Roots I mean Richard Hill was the first blow to clap eyes on Underhill when he was playing down in down in the depths of Wales know what an English rugby much heard of him and
Richard said here’s your here’s your bloke and and of course Tom Curry then emerged quite quickly afterwards and and you know they they were they they they played as two open sides in the 2019 World Cup and and were very influential in getting to the final so I mean they
Do have options there but yes I agree with you I I I think her brilliant though he played during the World Cup might lose a couple of percentage points from his Optimum position by playing at number eight you know he’s he’s probably he is a seven really isn’t when it comes
To flick you know flicking the switch in attack that’s going to be the the key issue for England I think going into the into this Six Nations and the person that we haven’t talked about is Felix Jones now Felix Jones is known as an attack coach primarily and it’s very
Interesting that England have shoehorned him into their setup as defense coach um so you know my feeling is is that Jones will act as one of those coaches who who a little bit like Wayne Smith did will do both because almost like a transition coach yeah absolutely because the two
Are are linked and and Wigglesworth on the on the showing you know Wigglesworth is still very very inexperienced as a coach and you know the from from the evidence of what we saw during the World Cup he needs support in you know in terms of the England attack and how the England
Attack is built and that is going to be the key thing I think during this uh during this Six Nations I think I think transition is the key thing in rugby all R isn’t it I mean the All Blacks have been Sensational at it for ever in a day
Now what sha Edwards does sha Edwards says that defense is the first phase of attack I he gets HED everywhere as a defense coach but he has as much input on attack as anybody and if you look at the way the French sides played last
Week I mean to lose bordo and lell in a slightly different way but their transition their their attacking their attack from transition situations was absolutely Sensational sensation those th th those people who were trumpeting the demise of the uh of the top 14 a couple of weeks ago or three or four
Weeks ago couldn’t have been further Off the Mark when you look at what Bordeaux produced with a team who who a lot of them I mean outside um uh you know uh jalar and penno I’m not sure that the rest are our household names they were phenomenal against
Sarens who were extraordinarily poor and Owen Farrell appeared to have the weight of the world on his shoulder despite having um you know apparently sloughed it off by retiring from the international game for a bit um larell destroyed leester and um you know and although it
Wasn’t a French side um Bristol were put to the sword by by the Bulls uh at Ashton gate so you know the idea that the Premiership is you know flying high Northampton are certainly playing very good brand of rugby um Quinns were destroyed when they played too who did a number on
Ster uh at Raven Hill which doesn’t happen or uh which doesn’t happen very often at the kingspan so you know um yeah I I I it sort of tells you in a way where we are with uh with England with England as a team as well you know it’s
It’s they’re they’re very definitely in a TR transition and it is going to be fascinating to see how bwick negotiates it I mean go going back to that England sty and does it is it is it in any way sort of contradictory in terms of of some of the players they’re asking to
Play it it it does seem to me that Alex I know International Rugby’s meant to be a big step up from Club rugby your Premiership rugby or Champions Cup rugby but take somebody like Alex Mitchell he he doesn’t he doesn’t play for England quite with the
Fizz and the imagination and the and and the sort of risk-taking almost a sort of almost that he shows with Northampton he’s not kicking the kicking the skin off the ball well well you you You’ you’ve just ended one of my more rambling sentences um and and been very
Succinct thank you Nick you you you brought everything to a logical conclusion um but but you know what I’m saying he’s he he he does seem to be just slightly straight jacketed by the England environment going back to the captaincy debate obviously with Jeff proen a couple of weeks ago we were talking
About Ellis geng or having a front row as Captain and obviously one of the issues that was cited was okay Pros don’t play a full 80 minutes anymore it leaves you with a sort of pseudo Captain for 20 of those one does this mean that Jamie George like he did in the
Quarterfinal semi-final plays whole game if not most of the game leaving someone like Theo Dan in the wings without getting much game time or apart from it toj there’s not really an obvious candidate Ford’s not a guaranteed starter with Smith to be captain and take over the Reigns once
George goes off at 55 60 minutes that’s a really good point actually I mean Jamie George is one of those guys who can easily play at he I don’t think he has um Fitness issues at all he just chugs along for 180 minutes but the ridiculous thing is Theo Dan is a
Brilliant guy to bring Off the Bench if you if you want the best 80-minute performance by your number two player there’s a strong argument to have Jamie George off after about 55 now and bring Theo down on because he really is an impact player and I hate using that
Expression uh but he is a proper impact player Off the Bench so again that’s why England have got to work out there well of course Ford of course they may use Ford is is another is the other Captain thinking he’s going to play the last
Quarter of an hour or so of a of a big proportion of games I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if if George for came off the bench as Captain um in some of those six nations and one one of the issues around around Ellis geneng is obviously you know I
Mean um Singler has been dropped from this uh from this squad uh genj is still there but Genji’s scrummaging credentials uh you know were not um in the in the test uh you know test level when it came to the last knockings of the of the World Cup or actually I’d
Argue during the course of the World Cup England have still got issues at the scrum um you know I you when you see Joe Hayes and will Stewart as the backup at tight head to the 30 how how old’s danle now 3 72 37 you know I mean you realize that that
There are still issues that and um at loose head obviously the number of injuries they’ve got that I’m thankful that Beno abano has come through pretty strongly this season um and hopefully if Joe Mara is not uh there to pick up where he left off um at
The start of France in the uh in the semifinal you know then um abano will get uh will get his chance but England really need to to address their scrum issues because it’s very clear from the last round of the European Cup and the way that the uh you know sarens and
Lester were dusted that if if they can’t you know if they cannot get good ball from the scrummage and if they are not do not provide a stable base everything else that they’re trying to do is on skates I I saw a piece somewhere saying that that g could I
Mean I mean I mean genuinely could pick a pack of forwards the first pack of forwards I think in history that will be a thousand kilograms I mean I mean it depend I think the whole thing is contingent on them dropping walkie which I think is unlikely because he’s he’s
Bring some and picking Mayu and T fua yeah in the second R if they do that and and and old yueni is still it tight head that pack of French fors will be a th000 kilograms plus yeah ridiculous that’s quite a lot and then you can p solo to
Langi at six in a couple of years as well whato P solo to yeah that that that could be the first 1100 kilo pack ever yeah and that’s just that’s just from three players I see that as he hasn’t got his passport and isn’t eligible uh he’s
Likely to play in the under 20 World Cup again this summer isn’t eligible for Le blur so that’s a something to look forward to for our under 20 chaps yeah it is it is I I still look back on that under 20s and this is why I think I mean
It may not be this year because obviously they’ve lost dupon and and you you don’t shrug that off I mean he just reaffirmed in Belfast last weekend I mean the bl’s borderline genius uh I mean in rugby terms he he might he may well getting May well be the best I’ve ever seen
Yeah I mean I mean people of our age always said Gareth didn’t we you know I mean if you were naming your your your sort of your your 15 of you know anyone you’ve ever seen Play It Was Always Gareth was pretty quickly on the on the
On the team sheet for most people I mean Nick looks though he’s about to disagree which is fair enough because because he weird but I just remember how much Edward won during his career and how inspirational he was prepared to the snap judgment that Dupont what I would
Say is that Dupont not only is brilliant for France but he’s been brilliant in 191 matches whatever it is is for castra and to lose now Gareth Edward wasn’t always brilliant for Cardiff and in fact he played fairly sparingly to Cardiff on occasions and some Seasons he always had
A Christmas hamstring didn’t he so I would say I you know I they are two of the three or four greatest players ever but I actually put jupon ahead of Edwards at the moment he’s he’s anyway what what I was going to say about the French is that under
20 1974 lines God knows how many Wells grand grand slams I’m sorry not there let’s save this for another program French and the 20 side going forward they are I mean that whole back roow that they had the halfbacks they had um old um Aro cost kid in Midfield
And what have you I mean they that was an extraordinary team you know extraordinary team and a lot of those are being fed into top 14 rugby now gazo’s playing Baptist shano’s playing for Claremore and might it’s not going to be long before that new generation is
You know sort of in the The Wider French test Squad and they they’ve got a tremendous I think it was ler one of them or not no no in the last one but he’s a good player yeah he is a very good player I mean I mean we know we know the French
Generally have scrum ass don’t they I mean by and large um and and they’re gonna have a whole Fistful of them going forward because um he’s very good I’m looking forward to seeing him play in the Six Nations I think he’s a good player they’ve just brought in another
One as well deporter uh him I don’t Center Bordeaux Bordeaux Center yeah he’s a good player and he’s obviously been tearing up in that backline so well obviously we we’ve got Jerry guscott for the the traditional Six Nations preview we’ll be talking about France then and how and it’s
Perfectly possible on last week’s evidence that jalar is going to make entak an irrelevance well that’s quite scary can we find unac an English passport he wants to go and play Super Rugby does he I think I was reading I mean I’ve always thought Jal B was a
Better all around player than unak unak was brilliant in bit but jalar has always been the more complete 10 but again that we can say that for next week but J who was it who scored a brilliant try in the uh in the top four F yeah and he had an absolute
Dog of a match until that moment that was G Edwards that isn’t Tam one genius moment but he nearly lost in the match as well yeah I think it’s always been Jal be defensively has been a has been the question mark um or that’s my take on it
From the outs side but no let’s let’s sort of save the how each Nation but this is the English disease ol isn’t it there you are you see you’ve fallen for it your your default position is how well does he tackle yeah ask Evan Beth how well he tackles
Yeah they’re lucky to have them both aren’t they oh no seriously they really really are no uh the form of all the top 14 sides is a very very scary Prospect and I think well I’m sort of nailing my col not by on mate not by on right well we’ll we’ll ignore
Them um look there’s I think the only other thing to mention is dafid Jenkins being I think he’s the youngest Welsh Captain ever I think is the stat um I that’s just worth a a fleet a fleeting mention after all the sort of the Reit stuff has over overshadowed it um well Gat
Gatlin’s got a track record on this you know I mean he picked wton out of nowhere yeah well exactly I mean I mean you could say that Jeff Cook picked caring almost out of nowhere his Skipper but I I mean a couple of times during that first long spell in Wales
Gutland picked you know he put his faith in some very unfamiliar players some young players and he sort of gave him a shot whether it works for him again this time who knows but he’s um you know he’s he’s not the worst at seeing captain see
Material as Ro back to knows his onions and he’s been singing Jenkins PR throughout three years now he made him Captain this year um I think he’s the real deal and he’s a hardcore prop he’s Alan wi Jones he’s gonna win 150 caps and all that he’s he’s a dog of
A player there’s no question about that he’s got um he he’s got a lot of grit and a big ticker um and he’s he’s gonna need it with that Squad isn’t he he’s athletic yeah he will need it he will need it yeah I mean it does look paper
Thin I mean look you know I mean we’re not I mean I’m I’m not on the inside track here I don’t go to training I don’t I don’t see what what what the coaches are seeing from from some of these relatively unfamiliar players and we all know what a what a state the
Worsh domestic game is is is in um but on the face of it that looks that looks a very thin Squad I slide as well in that from what I’ve heard Gatlin didn’t even speak to him before the decision was made and obviously he wasn’t to know that ree
Samit was jump [Â __Â ] but it would seem like if if he had managed to persuade him to play for Wales they had the perfect replacement locked and loaded yeah well well the way I heard it is ream it tried to get through several times but Gatlin was dictating his Telegraph
Column go back to the World Cup Wales didn’t look um Wales really didn’t look any worse than England no no they look better since then they’ve lost a couple man I mean and Jack Morgan’s a big Miss for them yeah I agree with that and he was obviously a Warren
Gatlin picker Captain as well so yeah I mean just going back to the captaincy fromont Chris you’re right Warren Gatlin does have a track record yeah R marrow toj like captains and what we’ve said should have been done with the toj from the start from an early age um so that
Could be a very very good pick but you’re right Wales are looking slightly scant let’s save the Six Nations preview for a couple of weeks time with Jerry guscott we’ve sort of um slightly turned over the leaf there but we will do so in more more detailed um in the lead up to
That first fixture but yeah as Brendan said the hard work Starts Now um thanks so much for joining me again guys I’ll see you in a couple of weeks and from a couple of weeks onwards just for listeners we’ll be going back to weekly episode so we got a jam-pack schedule
Every single guest already lined up uh for a very exciting Six Nations period so we look forward to seeing you all then after a dramatic Rugby World Cup all eyes are now on the Guinness 6 Nations make it a special day with friends family teammates colleagues or clients by booking an exceptional
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2 Comments
Nick is incorrect on LRZ being faster. Thats the running backs speeds padded up LRZ isnt padded up.
Hayden Smith played Union, for Saracens….
He went to the USA for university on a Basketball scholarship, played rugby in the off season, ended up playing for USA at union on residency. Then he switched to NFL, he made an active roster briefly.