The Next Big Thing in Cycling Nutrition? (Cluster Dextrin) – Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 457

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// TOPICS COVERED
(0:00) Welcome!
(00:38) What are the next innovations in pro cycling?
(07:52) Is Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin (cluster dextrin) the next big thing in cycling nutrition?
(18:55) A periodization mistake that hurts your yearly progress
(25:56) Running Cross-training tips. Is concrete more damaging than asphalt or trail?
(32:13) Why aren’t more pro road cyclists doing other disciplines like MVDP, WVA, Pidcock, and Pieterse?
(38:37) How the order of your workouts affects your fitness
(50:04) A new study that shows pairing training with studying might actually help you retain information

// RESOURCES MENTIONED
– Image showing the different molecular structures we discussed: https://www.torqfitness.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/molecules.png
– Float Set workout: https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/45262-megantic-1
– Tibial acceleration and shock attenuation while running over different surfaces in a trail environment, Garcia, 2021.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S144024402100058X
– MVDP in Sand (credit to FloBikes): https://youtu.be/Ji1CE6_9Dhc?feature=shared&t=4316
– Puck Pieterse (credit to UCI Mountain Bike World Series): https://youtu.be/RpMETGtVBvE?feature=shared&t=35
– Recess workout: https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/312044-recess-5
– Moderate-to-vigorous intensity cycling exercise immediately after visual learning enhances delayed recognition memory performance, Venezia, 2023.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S146902922300122X?fr=RR-2&ref=pdf_download&rr=84368897b84a986c

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Welcome to the podcast dedicated to making you a faster cyclist ask of cycling coach podcast presented by trainer road today we are going to answer the questions that you submitted and one of the questions actually deals with maybe we’re doing this whole thing wrong with glucose and fructose it’ll be

Interesting to look into so uh it be a good one you can submit those questions at trainer.com podcast or on Spotify you can just go to this episode right now that you’re listening to and Spotify allows you to enter your podcast question right there and then we can go

Through and get your podcast questions directly from Spotify onstop shop it’s amazing if you haven’t start listening to it on Spotify it’s fantastic or watch it on YouTube because you can watch video the whole time while you’re there it’s really great uh let’s get into the

First one this is submitted by Paul he says with Red Bull recently announcing a majority stake in Bora Hans gr that’s the cycling team that now Pros rogl rides for he just got hired for this year what changes do you think they will or should do to optimize performance

Like they’ve done in Formula 1 on their way to being the most dominant team it’s like a dream budget you know I I was going to say like it’s all about budget money but also the um the aerodynamics from F1 I wonder if there’ll be more

Like you know looking into that for the group and stuff but I feel like it’s been done so much to death like is there how many more much more gains are there left on the table there’s one that I have in mind Nate and I want your

Thought on this so the UCI I can’t let’s we’ll link down to the rule below and I may and correct me if I’m wrong on this okay so if you’re listening right now on the YouTube comments correct me let me know but I believe that the UCI issued

An up to the rules for TT bikes to make the extensions be more parallel to the ground stop them from going so high angled upward and as a result there are a lot of athletes because the whole point of if you’re imagine a bike with

Me in my mind right now and your mind uh when you’re in a TT position don’t jump into my mind that’s weird um but if you’re in a TT position and you imagine that your forearms are parallel to the ground you’ll notice that that’s not a

Position that a lot of people have these days back in the day it was more common but these days they’re raising their they’re like hinging at the elbow and raising their arms upward and the whole point behind that is that it it stops the air from rushing into your stomach

Your chest and your stomach because that’s basically like a parachute so if you can raise your arms up and get them closer to your chin then that means that you can kind of close that off and give this kind of like add a point like a

Snow plow so to speak from a truck and the air can flow around you and that’s what they’ve done years there’s some arm pads that kind of help with that I think of I’m older so like Lei leimer and you also call it turtling where you’re it’s kind of hard to look too

They’re just barely like looking over their thumbs that’s how high their thumbs are right below their ey line yeah and this has been a common approach and it seems like what they’re trying to do is is stop that from happening I I don’t know why why I have no clue

Handling maybe like I don’t think there’s ever been a crash like that way that’s not like you know wet or some budy running out right I They Don’t Really crash on TT bikes unless they’re like you slide out in the rain that’s like the common thing that happens and

Who cares where your hands are you’re going to slide out right um so they’ve changed that and part of me wonders this now what if teams so let’s assume that you can’t get your wrists higher than your elbows so to speak are so high at least maybe what you do then is you

Raise the front end of the bike so that it’s just a lot higher and then you kind of have your shoulders more Shrugged but then maybe I know that there’s a rule between like the top of the frame or the wheels and then the tips of the

Extensions and the pads so I wonder if frames will start making really tall head tube and like really tall top tube TT bikes because if you think about it you don’t really need a low top tube for a TT bike you get on the bike you swing

Your leg over it and then you go and if it’s uncomfortable to do so uh who cares because once you’re on the bike and pedaling that’s all that matters I could see a world where you have like a really short seat post so to speak because your

Seat tube is so high and your top tube is actually really high off the ground and you have this this is my dream High head tube and if you had that I wonder if that could make it more aerodynamic you kind of just lift everything up to

Get around this rule change but the drop wouldn’t be there they wouldn’t have much of a drop so like yeah so they’d be higher in general and then be less so the question then becomes like is a flatback better even if you know you get your upper your

Upper body a little bit higher but is a flatback better but I feel like Red Bull can figure it out right yeah I don’t think it’s that uh the turtling stuff isn’t that much of a difference for people maybe like to 10 watts where like a you know dropping would be more I

Think the so is it money like just getting a better Riders like how how you know how much would that like skott used to do that too right just buy really really good Riders and uh have like their lieutenants be able to like win the Tour to France know crazy but like

Instead they’re riding for the the winner yeah second and third string uh and in this case they bought 51% of the team uh reportedly so that’s an interesting like so that means that they didn’t just come in and invest but they want actual decision- making power in

The team which is interesting I wonder if that’s going to change cycling in general because what Red Bull wants is advertising and they want eyes on Red Bull so I bet I wonder if this will go through their channels more their marketing channels more cycling available in more places which would be

Amazing for all of us to watch yeah and for them to be the ones making decisions and kind of like calling shots with that is really interesting with them having that sort of major and who knows they may still be deferring to team men agement and everything else but the

Point is they could since they are majority owners technically yeah but you look back though in 2004 when Red Bull bought Jaguar F that Jaguar F1 team nobody was like like oh this is going to revolutionize things and and in this case Paul says they’re the most dominant

Team they’ve only been the most dominant team for the past two to three years now um prior to that it’s been Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton forever and they were dominant so like we might not see changes really add up to getting to the point of dominance for a really long

Time um I would assume that it’s probably easier to make those sort of gains with a big budget in the cycling world but man uh like you said Nate just being able to afford all of the key Riders would be huge but then if they can figure stuff out with aerodynamics

If they are the ones that are like because Sky had this brand of like I mean they had like separate washing machines for every Rider’s kits they had towel or they were bringing pillows and mattresses that were unique to every single hotel and they were slicing and

Dicing every detail and that was the brand of the team and it’s kind of been lost now it’s just like anyos graders are good but they’re not dominant it doesn’t seem they don’t have that brand even if they are they don’t have the brand of like searching every detail but

I feel like this is this opens the door for it for Bora like they could be they can hire a pillow guy pillow person scary pillows yeah exactly yeah it’d be pretty impressive I’m excited to see what it looks like and also I wonder how they’ll brand the team uh I know Nate’s

Into soccer too so maybe it’s like the New York Red Bull or maybe they have everybody in Red Bull helmets and all their athletes are a big thing so could be interesting so okay Ian’s question says wait what if they all do Rampage like just kidding Big Brand

Change all you can imagine that in their contract they’re like hoping to race the tour and then they also the stipulation they have to race the tour and do Rampage so yeah that would be for those who don’t know that is the most horrific horrifying mountain bike like I don’t

Even downhill in history Street like watch Google like first person Red Bull Rampage footage and like I like shake you just see these they go down Jonathan Jonathan gets sweats which is insane go can’t imagine can’t imagine doing it you know Primos Rog glitch was a ski jumper

Though so maybe I don’t know that’s what they’re pretty much doing in P flips on dirt it’s nuts uh okay Ian’s question says what’s highly branched cyclic dextran and should I it might be cyclic I’m not sure on the pronunciation uh and should I be using it instead of mdex for

Carbohydrate in my bottles Ian answers in Canada or Ian goes on to say in Canada it’s about four times more expensive than maltodextrin uh thinks which is that’s that’s crazy um and a lot of people make their own drink mixes these days by buying something like multitran dextrose and then buying

Fructose and then you mix them together and then based on that you go some people just mix table sugar which I think is a terrible idea it’s not very well refined or cleaned doesn’t mix well at all I don’t know how you’d mix it You’ have to have like M our stomach up

Yeah you got to like make a simple syrup we tried that once and it was like Gas City oh it was terrible so um but people make their own drink mixes uh and scratch actually has their super carb mix and in that super carb mix they actually have a cluster dextrin which

Effectively cyclic dextrin highly branched cyclic dextrin another word for it would be a cluster dextrin I going to kind of like explain the inner workings of this Nate then maybe we can like Jive on on how all this works and how like it could be beneficial for us athletes but

There’s some interesting stuff here so effectively I’m going to break down carbs and I’m not a chemist so I’m probably going to screw this up y’all uh I was terrible in chemistry uh but just the same we’re going to go through it uh first all this stuff starts with

Starches and those naturally occur in in in tons of different carbohydrates and food sources um so they’re composed of two molecules amalo and Amal optin and those two thing different things have unique characters we’ll get into those in just a second here but from those different things you can break them down

In a process called hydrolysis and that’s when you get things like this cyclic dextrin that we’re talking about or maltodextrin or dextrose or even all the way down to glucose okay so it all starts with starches now like I mentioned there’s that amose thing and bring your brain back to chemistry here

And whenever we draw out elements or different things like this different compounds we see that they have this structure where different things are linked together right and in this case when you’re talking about amalo it’s like a linear chain of of of glucose that’s put together and in one respect

It allows them to like Branch out a little bit but it’s more or less a linear chain but Amal opcin the other part of starches is highly branched imagine a tree that just has branches going all over the place and at the end of every Branch starts a new branch that

Can go into a bunch of different branches so that is where this highly Cy or this this cyclic dextran or cluster Dex string comes from because what it does is it’s this complex structure that allows on that chain a ton of different little nodes where glucose can exist

Okay versus a very simple chain and the process when they’re broken down um maltodextrin is one that is is taken down through the process of it’s called partial hydrolysis and it results in shorter chains of glucose that are put together whereas hbcd I’m just going to say that instead of cyclic dexing

Because I’ll mess that up that is is just this crazy complex longer chain now what that ends up happening or what that ends up delivering for athletes is that it makes it so that it dissolves and and I guess is digested a lot slower in the

Gut and in fact it passes through the gut and then is dissolved later on and process through your body and all of the breakdown of cyclic dextrin like this happens a bit in the stomach but mostly in the small intestine okay so here’s what that would give you as an athlete

That would make it slow to digest and absorb and also theoretically mean that you would have a more consistent and slower release of energy it also has lower osmolality which basically means that it doesn’t require as much water in that process so it’s not going to bring

A ton of water to your gut and cause you to get an upset stomach all these things sound really good and it seems like a good idea but we have to sit back and ask ourselves a few key things number one think of this like a business when

Your expenses exceed your Revenue which basically your burning more than you can actually take in on the bike is it a good idea to have these like these assets that you’re getting like these slowly maturing assets like bonds no you want something that’s going to give you

Cash now right so then that way what you can do is you can pay things off and this theory of like the fact that slower release energy is more beneficial for us it all operates on this flaw flawed premise that that actually is beneficial in reality if you’re burning a ton you

Want stuff that burns pretty darn fast and you want to be taking it in very often and is this is interesting Dr Alex hutchon Hutchinson on our uh the trainer Road Forum posted a fantastic thing about this and he mentioned the fact that it’s really not better to have

Slower releasing instead increase your rate at which you’re taking in these glucose drinks and then just make sure that you’re taking in uh the fastest burning that you can and in most cases it’s actually going to lead to less stomach distress that you would have um so it’s it’s an interesting concept and

It could work but here’s why these cluster dextrin aren’t necessary and you don’t have to spend so much money on them in most cases you’re mixing mixing glucose and fructose glucose is very simple it’s broken down really quickly fructose takes longer goes through the liver and in that very system right

There in that drink you kind of have both sides covered quick energy and longer lasting energy that you could have coming through that so if you’re mixing something like cluster dextr with fructose you’re likely getting something that’s going to digest a lot slower and in some cases that’s going to cause you

To take in too much because you’re trying to get that hit of energy and then you might get to the point where it’s like shoot now my gut is blown up because I’ve taken in 120 grams and I’m not used to that or you’ll be taking it

In slowly and you’ll just have a slow burn but you’ll lack that faster hitting energy so ingredients do matter um you could say that like cluster dextrin is no different than a lot of different other things and effectively it’s probably not going to make some massive difference for you it’s uh very similar

To what you’d find but in for in my case I’ve tried cluster dextrum before I found that it gave me personally really low amounts of energy I didn’t feel like I got a good hit from it and I always got an upset stomach from it versus glucose which you’d think might give you

More of an upset stomach and I just use pure glucose for my stuff but it’s kind of interesting right Nate like this whole concept of slower energy is better or slower release but in theory you know yeah I think it’s a people who are concerned about like the like the

Insulin model of like if your insulin spikes too much you’re going to get fat uh which I think it’s been proven um wrong and I’m going to get hate for that and please just put all the comments in the YouTube so there’s an argument we’ll

Get a lot of a lot of stuff um people were showing but it so I think another idea is that it’s not going to upset your stomach as much that’s what I think and yeah um I saw that that alone maybe try it but I looked here too I’m looking

At studies for it and this is so key it was one article that I was reading on a Sports Nutrition like they’re selling the drink said that it improv performance then you read the actual article and uh there were no significally difference between the trials there’s like like one was

Slightly increased but it was not cic statistically significant and then on the page though if you didn’t if you didn’t jump in it says that it actually uh it actually helped um which are I they even they measure like speed in this they just measured like markers

Yeah so be I mean I don’t know I’m I should I am one to try everything new and I do try everything new and uh Placebo does work too and melto dextran if you buy it in bulk it’s like 10 bucks for a few pounds right like it can last

You months and months and months and if it’s 40 bucks that’s going to last you months to months maybe I don’t know I don’t see any harm in trying it but I wouldn’t break the bank or think that I’m not doing well if I don’t have it too yeah I could see

This I could see this working if you don’t have a high carb intake rate like think back to back in the day when people would take in like 20 gram of like from a gel and they would take that in once an hour and then that would be

It in this case this might give you like longer lasting you might experience a bit less Peak and Valley with energy um but you’re taking yeah that could work too yeah like during the day to drink some so you get kind of like sustained throughout the day it’d be better than

Just sipping on glucose right which is likely going to spike and and cause that sort of thing and really if but if you’re taking in 90 or 120 grams an hour it’s kind of like a hi traffic scenario anyway so you really want that stuff the cars to get through the freeway quickly

You don’t want it to go slow on the freeway like you want it to pass through and and give you that energy fast you know but I’ve never tried scratch’s mix to be fair I haven’t tried their mix and I’d be interested to try that because they partner it with

Fructose and it’d be cool to see how it works um but I’ve just purchased it in bulk before and yeah I found the best result for me is just pure glucose it’s expensive it’s not like um the whole process that we were talking about earlier here where we were talking about

Hydrolysis like hydris the process to create glucose it has to be really pure and really refined and after it goes through hydrolysis they have to clean it again and then you get like a really refined and pure um substance that you’re putting into your body sounds like you’re talking about drugs I know

It does right someone’s cooking here yeah narcos yeah um but when you look at something like maltodextrin it doesn’t have to go through such a thorough process and that’s why it’s cheaper now when you create this hbcd stuff it’s like a very unique process it’s very

Costly it’s hard to get right that’s why it costs so much more like so much more money even though it’s goes through less refining processes that something like glucose does it’s a propri or it’s like a a unique process that it goes through that’s that’s much more difficult to

Manage and create its scale whereas multi is pretty darn easy to create and that’s why it’s so cheap you know you might get just as much benefit from taking in maltodextrin than you would get from something like this and it’s just way cheaper and just a more an easy

Get like you can get dextrose at Walmart right it’s just Gatorade powder it’s like really easy easy so um accessibility can be super important for athletes too but in the end I’m I swear by pure glucose and then pure fructose it mixes the easiest too which is

Something cool that I found like it I just put it in and I shake my bottle like three times and it’s done and um it’s mixed and I never have to worry about it and it’s amazing I’m not having to put in like a little blender into my

Bottle or put it in a blender bottle then pour it back into something else it’s so easy it’s like um all those little details add up and when it’s pain to ride your bike because you have to mix things and do all that every time G sometimes it’s enough to stop me from

Training so yeah anyways that’s the that’s the skinny right now on that and actually go on to the Forum I’m going to link to that Forum thread because somebody actually asked about this also on the Forum thread and Dr Alex huton you you provide fantastic information on

The Forum always great um so go check that out and I really appreciate all of your input on the form is really good so okay freya’s question says my question is around training plans for people that don’t race how necessary is the specialty phase of the plan if I

Don’t race and will the specialty phase help make me faster or am I better off just going back into base and build again I used plan builder for my training plan um some background on Freya love trainer Road and I’ve been using it for the past year after

Following a training plan I found on training Peaks I use trainer road to get fitter and faster on the road and I love feeling and being fast as I’m always underestimated while out cycling thanks for the podcast uh for trainer Road survey and all that you do um so yeah

That’s the that’s the question there from Freya about specialty phase Nate um well yeah if you plan not to race you might want to do like the gravel plan or something like that and that is probably how you’re writing like gravel um Sentry uh Grand Fondo you’re just kind of

Riding without spikes and stuff like that but the it’s I remember that study where they took people and they did like it was just threshold or V2 Max intervals and they did it like almost every day for like 6 weeks and they had incredible amount of like 30 Watts

Gained FTP but zero people wanted to continue again and the nice thing about no they they said who wants to try it again and everyone said no and the cool thing about specialty is it adds more um variety to your training where um very interesting the the intervals change and

They’re usually like a lot shorter besides maybe like I just said Grand Fondo um even like going to crit it can it can help prevent burnout and raise interest and also that like um hitting those that VO2 max just a little bit differently in anerobic could actually make you faster also um yeah

Just building you know stronger legs and stuff like that so I would just I would do it and not be concerned about going back and forth unless you say I don’t like specialty this is I hate this kind of training then I would just skip it

Yeah yeah and Freya mentions that I love feeling and being fast and I never feel faster than in the specialty phase because what’s happening Freya is you have this chronic training load adding up adding up adding up and over time you just continue from base to build to

Specialty through base and build you’re adding up a lot of that chronic training load intentionally you’re you’re dosing yourself with a little bit more every week you offset it with a recovery week here and there but as a whole you start to accumulate more if you look at like a

Time scale of how much training load did I do over the past four months you’ll see that the the past four months are probably higher than the 4 months previous because you were in base and build so what specialty does is it starts to drop that down

And when it drops that down it allows your body to feel like it’s refreshed like wakes up on a sunny morning it doesn’t have this cloud of fatigue hanging over it and then you’re able to express a lot of the fitness that you have it’s interesting a lot of the time

You might actually have like all the fitness and all the theoretical capability to be able to do something but just because you don’t you’re you’re constantly training and you’re carrying this level of fatigue you can’t express it yep exactly and that’s what’s cool about the specialty phase and it also

That that decrease again in training load that you experienced during the specialty phase makes it so that you can start another base or build and and move on in your training with a little bit less training load on you recently in your training and so it makes it so you

Can kind of stair step your way up so I I feel like for everybody it’s like Nate set for novelty and fun it’s cool to do something different and then it also just gives you a better chance at being able to get more Improvement after that

You know it’s like the reward you know like you’ve worked all this time and then you get to like get out there and uh going on the especially r with friends those little short like one or two minute Hills that people kick you know and then you’re in specialty you’re

Just like Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam you get to drop people that’s fun I did that once to Jonathan I remember that day it was a good day I mean for you yeah not for me um uh Freya something else too if other people are listening to this and they’re

In freya’s position let’s say that you don’t have like an event you’re training for you can do the weirdest specialty phas right like if you’re a gravel sort of athlete but you want to do cyclocross not because you’re going to cycle across race but because you want to feel what

It’s like to be able to punch over and over and over do it right like you don’t have anything to lose it’s not like you have a race result that’s depending on it and it’s really fun to if you don’t have race events to go through and maybe

This time you’re going to do 40 ktt and you’re just going to work on being a stable power beast and then next time you’re going to work on Criterium or CrossCountry short track or something totally unique it’s kind of fun to be able to play around with your Fitness

Like that and experience something different if you don’t have goals you might as well um and the cool part about that too is I found that some things tend to kind of stick with you I don’t know if you found that Nate but from our time when we focused on time trials for

A while that really helped me learn how to put out stable power and how to manage that effort mentally and that’s stuck with me like even though I haven’t been training like a time trialist I can do steady efforts really well and I used

To not be able to so it’s kind of cool way to like you know put something broaden yourself out teach you can suffer a lot more too I’m thinking of VO2 max float sets where you go like 120 for like 15 seconds then you are at like

88 or something for 15 seconds and you’re just like no I can’t do another I can’t to another but somehow 3 seconds before you could you’re okay um and that’s that’s great when especially when riding with groups too a group ride where you don’t think you can hang on

Because they always they always slow down like 100 feet after you you stop and then you can’t catch them because you’re still like not there you know and if or there’s a draft or something like that that’s the worst the dangle the dangle is the worst yeah yeah absolutely

Ely so Freya again recapping it’s not necessarily better to go into Bas and build again in fact if you’re just looking at like where will you be at the end of the year and you have the opportunity to skip a specialty phase and instead just do Bas and build and

Repeat that until the end of the year or have specialty I actually bet you would get faster if you had a specialty phase in there by the end of the year because it would allow you to shed that fatigue make training more interesting and allow you to be more consistent with it too

That’s like a that’s an interesting point Nate on novelty can we talk about that for a little bit cuz when we design our training plans um and any any good coach I mean a coach that’s like really going through and analyzing and picking and creating specific workouts for you

As an athlete that sort of thing they are taking novelty into account I think there’s a lot of people that um might feel bad about the fact that like uh like oh they’re just making it fun and entertaining for me you should not feel bad about that if you’re higher or more

Highly motivated in your training my goodness you’re going to perform those workouts so much better you’re going to look forward to your next workout after that there’s a huge part in it like the psychological aspect of this is just huge so that’s something we consider in our training and um workout alternates

Too man if you feel like you’re lacking novelty just use alternates and you can pick a different type of stimulus within that zone it’s just amazing for it so yeah so we have 4500 structured workouts on our site yeah it’s crazy huh yeah it’s a lot okay Grant says

I’m on the high volume full distance Tron plan and build phase is due to begin that’s a lot of work high volume full distance Tron I did like low volume for a half distance Tron Grant’s impressive I can’t I can’t imagine like it’s just so hard like cyclist listening to this training for

Three different sports like that it’s really really really tough so uh I’ve had success throughout the base phase and on a recent outdoor long group ride I’m happy to say I was flying up the long climbs without really pushing myself never Le the base phase gave me

Some long two-hour runs which I enjoyed but the build build phase steps up to over two hour runs and I wondered if doing these on the trails would prove more beneficial than pounding on the road thanks from Preston Lancashire UK from Grant n did you do this when you

When you did try training Nate yeah the thing you got to be careful with on trail is is it like hilly at all because it’s the downhills that are kill your knees but in the UK it’s like pretty flat there so I don’t know if I mean

Definitely if if you have a choice between uh asphalt and concrete around the asphalt I mean some get hit by a car and then if you have a choice between that and like dirt around the dirt because it’s just going to be a little bit softer and I don’t know if there’s a

Um this is like what’s it called a conventional wisdom with Runners pass down I don’t know if it’s actually true but uh it’s I like to run on I don’t know it feels good to run on dirt and you get like run in nature rather than

On the road I looked into yeah I looked into this with studies because I’ve always heard the same thing but then find myself Nate like running on these Super Shoes with like two and a half inches of foam and I’m like is there really any difference between concrete yeah you’re totally right soft

Sand right uh prob carb plate that’s bouncing you up like yeah exactly yeah what’s the difference with modern shoes there’s probably no difference and I looked at different uh and actually research they don’t indicate that they were running with Super Shoes they just indicate that they were running so I

Have no clue if they were using them or not but there are some studies that have said yes that have pointed to the fact that yes there is more impact and they’ve measured impact and strain on The Tib on the tibia typically is where they measure it in these studies but

Then there’s effectively like the same study carried out by different people and there are multiple instances of this one that I can give out I’ll put a link down below is Garcia from 2021 and colleagues they put one out where they found no difference between running on

Like uh gravel like a dirt path and then running on Pavements and running on different surfaces so but here’s the interesting thing is that when you run and actually this is kind of counterintuitive but when you run on a softer surface we actually tend to land

Harder or we stiffen up our our legs more and that’s because we’re landing on a more unstable surface so we actually stiffen up our legs more is what they found there’s greater muscle contraction and less movement in the joint when you run on a softer surface whereas on the

Road our body kind of adapts to that and it’s like oh this is not changing this is not giving underneath me therefore I will adjust how I and I’ll actually land a bit softer when I run but that doesn’t necessarily mean that one is more or

Less damaging on your body the big thing is when you run on Pavements or on asphalt cement it’s almost always the same stroke you never have to change the way that you’re stepping you never have to change the angle at which you’re Landing so there’s a theory out there

Amongst a lot of people that if you do if you are going to run running on trail can be beneficial just because it has you landing and stepping different in every step versus doing the same thing over and over and over and if your soft tissue isn’t prepared or even your bones

They’re not prepared for something like that theoretically it could be easier to get an overuse injury if you’re doing the same exact thing over and over versus having different stride lengths different lateral moves different push off points all that stuff that you would get with a trail that squishy thing I’d

Like to see with like treadmill because treadmill has a really easy to have a whole bunch of like squish on it and out of my experience treadmill has been much easier not to be injured this is anecdotal it doesn’t mean anything at all so yeah don’t me that but

Yeah Grant yeah Trail and also cyclists are probably listening to this and I think that trail running the tricky part is you have to like Nate said you have to watch out for steep hills rolling your ankle and chances are for your cyclist you have super weak feet and

Ankles which means you’re probably going to roll your ankle pretty easily but I think that it’s probably going to be a lot more beneficial than just running on a road because we totally lack all of that lateral support and the movement that we get when we are trail running

When you’re on a bike you’re just operating in that single plane and when you run you also operate in that single plane it’s more Dynamic but still that single plane but trail running it works you way way better so I think it’d be better for most people if they did Trail

Stuff you know I think of like in the UK in the winter just running on like wet leaves and through mud on the trail like yeah terrifying there are those Trails like you know in parks that are kind of flat then there’s like Trail Trail where

You are like up and down I would not have that be your unless you’re exterior athlete I would not have that replace your your two-hour run especially for two hours Nate said this like Nate said this could be conventional wisdom but um I know Paula Finley and Eric lrom

They’re friends of mine professional triathletes uh very famous professional triathletes they they are they run on trail a ton so and they like to do it because of the fact that it’s softer but I think it’s also a bit more just Dynamic and interesting to them because

They train so much they’re always doing running and everything else and trails are a whole lot more interesting for them but they do a lot of it um certain athletes I’d be surprised to see and maybe if you’re a triathlete listening to this we can put a poll up right now

On Spotify if you go to that and you can fill out the poll maybe really interesting to see if you do run triathlete or not if you do run do you spend more time on the road or more time on the trails because I bet it’s more

Time on the road for the majority of us but Trails I think if it’s especially it’s cross training would actually be more beneficial for us so so yeah it’d be interesting yeah anyways that the the myth is kind of debunked by science that and especially these darn Super Shoes I

Can’t tell if I’m landing on a pebble or or a rock you know you can’t feel a rock yeah no you can’t it’s all squished so it’s amazing uh okay johanes says while watching the World Cup cyc cross events I’m noticing how much more dominant these athletes are who are

Multidisciplinary why are we not seeing more Road cyclists try cycle across or mountain biking it seems very effective for puck petery and for those that don’t know Puck uh she is the overall World Cup mountain bike champion last year which is super impressive but she’s primarily a cyclocross racer and she

Also races on the road and she does great in all disciplines but she does all of them then Matthew Vanderpool biner and Tom pig coock and most of us know who they are um so and how dominant they are and especially this year vanderpool’s just like a step above

Absolutely everybody and it seems like he could be riding with his breaks on and still win so yeah why are we not seeing more Road cyclist triy cyc Cross or Mountain this pretty easy that’s because it’s like technical skills you don’t have it as a road cyclist you go

The other way cyc cross to mountain bike to uh road but not road to mountain bike or cycle cross yeah like at all no you see and we see that too some Road Racers try cyclocross and stuff and despite the bad callup positions that they have they

Move backward they do not move up even though they have huge thresholds and that sort of thing it’s also really easy to get hurt um doing training for something like this like you you crash a lot on cyclocross granted the crashes don’t hurt uh relatively speaking compared to Road you’re less likely to

Get damaged per a crash but you still crash a lot and if you’re a cyclist with just roie with bird bones you know tipping over and hitting your shoulder can cause a shoulder separation or a collar bone break and then that’s in the middle of the winter so then you’re not

Going to hit Peak form again for these athletes until late in the summer it’s a it’s a huge amount riding on them but all that said I guarantee you they would be better for it if they worked on more of their skills you know I think part of

It too is the like the Survivor bias ship bias Survivor bias is that you see the top athletes in cyclocross move over because there’s more money and so you focus on those people but imagine if there was less money on road and the top and skills didn’t matter right because

Skills don’t matter going cycl the road like it’s not as they matter a little bit but they’re not as impactful the other way that you just took the top four Road cyclists and moved them over to cyclocross and see they had equal skills you’d be like oh my gosh everyone

Should be Road cycling cuz they’re like cleaning up this is crazy uh cuz that’s all you have too right it’s just the top contenders cuz the lower contenders can’t make that move or they don’t make that move because they know they’re you know it’s not going to be a good move at

All um I think that’s what you might be seeing here too although you have like mvdp like be Matthew Vanderpool amazing and you know like generational that’s yeah gu’s amazing that’s a little different yeah did you notice that you were a better road racer or after doing cyclocross

No no no no yeah I don’t think cyclocross had yeah helped at all on anything it was just fun fun and scary at the same time I think that’s like we’re looking at like really rare athletes like Puck is also like generational and wow and Tom they’re all

Like we’re looking at the tip of the spear like Nate said so these athletes can go over and do something like this and it is fun for them because they’re so comfortable doing it and they they have that sort of level of SK most people probably wouldn’t get that much

Benefit from it the other reason that we should talk about is Matthew and wow and Tom have all said and I I’m not sure I haven’t seen it from Puck but I would assume that she would they say it’s really hard to get that level of

Intensity in an hour in training is what they say they like in a race environment it’s easier for them to go super deep for that 45 minutes to an hour and they feel like that’s beneficial for their training um that’s another aspect of it too right um whereas I bet you put a

Roads listen to that situation they might not be able to push that hard because they’re so panicked and just trying to figure out their skills too they might not get the same benefit yeah your heart rate gets just as high you’re just you’re not going as fast not getting the fitness appointment too

Right but aside from all this if you look at these athletes and you look at everything that they’re putting into it we we’ve talked about racing in the bass phase before and how it’s good like don’t feel like you can’t race in the base phase and you want to make sure

That you’re planning it and giving padding around that so if you mark it as like a b race in your calendar adaptive training is going to adjust for that um working on some new features right now that are really exciting that are going to look at efforts like this and make

Additional adjustments even more adjustments and improve your training even further than what it is right now at trainer road which will be really cool but uh you want to make sure that you’re spacing it out but these athletes are racing relatively early on in their year and it isn’t burning them out it

Isn’t blowing them up that really old thought process that you like can’t break Z2 for the whole entire base phase and then later on you can is disproven by these athletes and by tons of other athletes um I think that they’re showing that you can go super deep and have fun

In these sort of races and do that sort of thing and as long as you’re not doing too much of it and as long as you are planning space around that sort of thing then it can be really beneficial you know so don’t worry about racing in the

Bas face I guess is the message the other message that I get from it so Nate have you watched any cross races this year I don’t know if you have no I haven’t Vanderpool it’s weird seeing how much better he is this year and it just looks like and I

Would be so curious to see what his FTP is this year like uh I know he’s used trainer Ro before we don’t Snoop accounts we don’t do that sort of thing so uh but I’d be really curious to see what his FTP is this year because it

Just looks like he’s got 50 Watts on everybody and the reason that I say that as he goes through the sand he isn’t laboring like he has had to in previous years compared to and compared to everybody else he looks calm like he’s able to make it up certain obstacles

That other people simply can’t and it’s because he’s able to carry and hold momentum through it like I’ve never seen his surges out of Corners he’s staying seated more often than he was before and he’s still gapping everybody when he’s surging out of turns it’s like it’s different he almost looks bigger too

Like maybe not as lean um like he has like more to him maybe more muscle mass I don’t know it’s quite interesting but he’s it’s an entirely different level this year that could be uh that could have a higher FTP because of that and be better through sand would make sense a

Little heavier Rider higher F raw Watts yeah yeah yeah good example of being heavier being better off so uh Tim says when you set up your plan does it make much difference to the adaptations you’ll get if you move the days around and don’t do them as set up by the plan

For example if you have threshold Monday and endurance Wednesday but you weren’t feeling it on Monday so you did the endurance and moved the threshold to Wednesday instead I’ve always wondered if that will change the adaptations if you move them about um or if you move them around

As there might be sweet spot on Friday so having Endurance on Wednesday all this is confusing to read out but he’s basically asking if I move around my workouts is that going to give me different adaptations throughout the week not at the moment but I was in

Something today that it will uh in the future do that so that’s that’s something we’re working on but at the moment it won’t update your adaptations and then talking about training adaptations in terms of like maybe that and you could be asking about adaptations it sounds like with trainer

Ro but on the training adaptation side of doing your threshold earlier in the week and then doing something else like that it really depends right Nate we’ve talked about stacking before and because if you don’t have yeah if you not the the endurance WR is there so you can

Partially recover uh before your so you can hit your threshold right hard and I should have said that too it will impact your adaptations if you then don’t hit the workout like you are um it was prescribed and it will and so yeah that mean if you had all the intense days on

In a row and then all the uh the endurance days on other days of I think we could all know that it would impact your training in a negative manner that’s what we have days between hard days uh that’s but but at at the moment it won’t unless you perform differently it

Won’t change the next week but then like I said we’re have we’re working on it this is purely anecdotal but it’s from people that I see like on the Forum if there’s an athlete that says that like I’m burnt out trainer row burnt me out

Or something like that on Forum I go on there and our our we have an awesome team on there Cado Eddie and Zach and they’re always looking into this stuff it’s quite common in situations like that almost always these athletes are doing too much that’s almost always like

Like there’s the plan but the plan is like 20 to 30% of what they’re doing it’s all the other 70% of the stuff that’s driving what’s going on yet they focus on the 20 to 30% but in these situations it’s very common to see them Doing backtack Hard workouts meaning

Like on Monday I do my hard workout on Tuesday I do a hard workout on Wednesday I do a race and then in man you’ve had three days in a row where you do that and maybe to add a visual to this you want to go into a workout with like your

Batteries at at a sort of level where you can get a lot of drain out of those batteries right if you go in there with already depleted because you’ve drained your batteries of the previous day’s workout you’re simply not going to be able to go deep enough in that workout

To make the sort of potential adapt training adaptations that could happen to your body like the training only happens when you go to where your limits are or around your limits right and you spend time there to go past those limits that’s the whole point of like

Progressive overload is that it gets a little bit more tough if you’re nerfing Yourself by giving by making yourself fatigued every time you come into those hard workouts you can’t do Progressive overload because you can’t progressively load yourself with more you have to actually like progressively load

Yourself with less every single time you go into a workout so I try to space them out as much as possible in terms of harder days that might be something that you know whatever it might be you know threshold V2 Max Anor robic or whatever

Else it might be just try to space them out as much as you can in your week um and if you can between those if you have like a day off really try to make sure that you schedule a day off in between those hard workouts if you’re doing a

High volume plan that might be tough but if you’re doing mid or low volume it’s certainly possible that’s like what I found to be the best most helpful the other thing I see from that feedback is um people will be doing like two or 250 TSS rides like in the weekend or maybe

Two in a row and they’ve always done that looking back at the career but then when you add actual structure to that also it needs to to something needs to move um or you need to adapt to that over time and for Red Light Green Light we’re like doing the the bugging and

We’re looking at people have complained that like trainer has burnt them out if this would have like gave them a notice um and I’m not saying in this case too that we burnt them out I’m saying it’s the adding of the this the combining of the outside huge rides with this

Structure training um those outside huge rides can you know sometimes count for double a normal ride even though they’re not intense just the amount of TSS and strain they put on you um you need to recover from that before you can start a hard ride again which as you said your

Battery has to fill up again so you can drain it um and so far it has so that would be I was like oh that would prevent as long as they listen to it but at least you could see on the calendar of like oh there’s some yellow and and

Red days that’s saying watch out uh maybe I should skip this day or gives an adaptation to give a rest so if you do do those long rides um it would for this it would impact the structured rides right or it could warn you ahead of time

Uh on that long ride of day like hey this is a caution day you might want to do something short not a not a big long uh ride today yeah yeah it’s almost like red light green light it protects us from ourselves right Nate like us like protects the athlete from themsel

Because MH the we more often think that like our eyes are bigger than our stomachs and we bite off more than we can chew and we think that it’s totally fine and we think it’s totally fine and we don’t find out that it’s a problem until we’ve gotten ourselves into a hole

And this proactively handles that I had that video of uh that I looked at your account and like you got sick afterwards the same thing happened in my account like I had red days and it’s sick or it’s like getting tired from training in my notes and then it’s like yellow red

And I’m like training through it and then it’s like have a sinus infection again it would be cool to like use yeah if everyone had notes it’s a lot of people don’t put notes in like that but it’d be cool to be able to like correlate those

Two of uh how often do people say something they’re overtraining they keep going and then they stop training like suddenly and to it’s motivated sometimes you don’t get sick you just are like I don’t want to train this week you suddenly get too busy yeah you know one

Other way that’ll be cool that I think athletes will be using red light green light is when they have a red day or something else to your point in this question here what you might do is you might decide to push Tuesday’s hard workout to Thursday you can just drag

And drop it on your calendar if you want you can move it around like we give you all those tools so that you can make those adjustments too if you need to but that might be cool like if you’re like oh I’m on a yellow day so I’m gonna just

Decide that today is I’m going to swap that endurance workout for something my harder scheduled workout I’m going to move that a little further away from this yellow day and it’s going to make it a little bit easier well and we’ll suggest it too if you’re on a trainer

Road plan we’ll suggest changing those um I don’t know if I remember I said this but I’ll say it here too Rel green light uses workout levels V2 in the back end I think I said this but I’ll just say it again so it explaining yeah yeah

So workout levels V2 instead of just having one level um scored in a workout indoors only it scores all your training zones and it does it for outdoor rides too and that’s we use that to order to um uh calculate how hard this ride is and how much it’s harder it’s SP from

Other rides cuz um TSS doesn’t unfortunately tell the whole story um we can have an hour at uh threshold or you can have um you know uh what six 10 minute intervals at threshold and they’re pretty much going to be the same um TSS which is crazy to think about

One’s a lot easier to recover from from the other um and then relative to where your Fitness is one could be the hour could still be pretty easy if you did it before or it could be the hardest effort you’ve ever done and the recovery time

On that will be different too uh so that’s why we’re using that um that’s a really good sign for the future that it’s um being used for this but also it’s not fine grain enough to be able to use for um scheduling your next workout then of should you get a 4.2 threshold

Or 4.4 threshold um which can be a a good RP difference between those two they can they can you can really feel that uh but it is big enough to know that um it’s kind of like a more macro approach and more um we have a wider

Target to hit so it doesn’t have to be as accurate as we make that more refined and work better yeah uh Nate I leaked actually workout levels V2 via Instagram last week and I didn’t realize I shared a screenshot of a ride and then I went

To bed and then woke up the next morning a lot of people like what’s that you know because they saw I took it down which I guess probably didn’t have to we talk about it on here too but the biggest thing that I’ve noticed with

That is that when I go out and do those urance rides just big rides with friends Nate MH everyone thinks they’re doing an endurance ride and it shows the fact that you’re actually not doing an endurance ride um that’s the most like common thing that I show like turns out

That I’m spending too much time in tempo right when I should be riding easier than that like I think it’s going to be really informative for a ton of athletes and help them turn down the intensity on those days so then that way it allows them to push harder in the days that

Really matter um and make sure that they aren’t cooking themselves coming into it but it’s super informative it’s going to change how people train you might think like time and zone is enough for that maybe Tempo is the wrong one for it maybe like threshold cuz over like a

Two-hour ride you’re like I got 25 minutes in threshold on all these little you can get them different ways and it might feel like you didn’t do any threshold or maybe you sprinted up the hills a few times with your friends that can really bump up your level in that

Zone and thus cause more recovery time especially if you’re pushing yourself past your limits combine that with the big endurance um you got to combine those two things and that then impacts what your training is going to be and that’s that’s I think that’s the secret little little things that you do the

Whole ride um and we get the question too if I do that will it ruin my endurance ride uh it it won’t but it will impact if you keep doing enough it will impact and this is just a way to measure it which is the cool part yeah

That compounding part is what this does unique it’s not just time and Zone it’s it understands the the relative context of okay so they did these little threshold efforts but they did it amidst this huge ride and as a result this is the actual toll right this is the actual

Training effect from it and the fatigue that they have needs some adjustment needs to be made so it’s super exciting um I’m excited for our athletes to to use it I know I’m sorry it’s taking so long but the first you’ll see red light green light first hopefully soon I we

It’s on my calendar we’re checking people’s stuff uh we’re making adjustments to it but you know it’s that get to the very final part and you you try to fix something and something else moves but this is we really are this is not like we’re like or um where L V2

This is very close and the front end I think is done on it we actually released it accidentally for a second in the desktop half yeah so somebody saw it for a little bit um and then we rolled it back that’s how close um that’s how close it is yeah exactly some somebody

Probably looked at it and saw how many yellow and red days they had right so yeah um yeah uh okay this is the last question from Mark that we’re going to cover this week it’s going to be a shorter episode than normal if you’ve appreciated this episode Nate and I are

Covering a bunch if you appreciate it go to trainer Road and sign up that’s the best way that you can show appreciation for this share the podcast with your friends if you’ve already signed up share train the road with your friends uh you can review the podcast on Spotify

And you can submit your questions on Spotify it’s super easy or you can do it at trainer.com podcast uh okay Mark says big podcast fan and trainer Road subscriber five stars on every platform by default thank you Mark uh if you also if you haven’t raid recently on Spotify I had somebody

Tell me this week that they find that they rate Spotify and then like a month later they can rate it again I mean it’d be great if you could help us because it looks like a rolling average of how many reviews you you’ve gotten recently in

Terms of when it suggests our podcast to somebody when they’re searching for recycling podcast so a steady flow is great so if you haven’t done it recently go check to see if you can do it again I’ve recently returned to school to obtain a graduate degree at the age of

44 and in an effort to maintain Fitness but not compromised study time I’ve been doing easy rides while studying case studies and research papers most of the material is business focus and as a business owner it’s quite interesting and engaging for me so perhaps that’s the difference but I’ve noticed it is

Much easier to retain knowledge for me in this recent re-entry into college than it was in my undergrad maybe it was the partying and stuff in the undergrad times who knows but Mark says acknowledging that I may just be much more interested in this Sub in this focused subject of study and

That I’m older and hope much wiser I still find myself wondering if it’s the training that’s making the difference and the reason for this is that I find my mind wandering whenever I am studying while not doing recess and recess he’s talking about is a train a road ride

Where it’s just an easy low inity spin you could lock into urg mode on that and just like you know boom take care of it so Mark says can you look into research on this topic and explain what’s happening in my body while doing low intensity exercise that could potentially improve my information

Retention U we’ve covered in the past this topic in terms of what happens in your body and how you’re signaling certain portions of your body to be aware and as a result that can help but there’s a really interesting study that just came out it’s a 2023 study from

Vansia and colleagues and this is really cool I want to read basically I’m just going to kind of like give you the cliff notes from this but I’ll link to this study down below so you can see it so effectively what they did is they had 72 participants and they had them go

Through this test this memory test where they looked at 90 images and they were shown for three seconds each followed by a 3 to four second break between the images and then what they did is they split them up into groups and they had a exercise before group an exercise after

Group and then a control group that did no exercise whatsoever and the exercise they did was a 24-minute hard cycling exercise and looking at the RP scale it looks like they were supposed to ride around threshold for 20 minutes with a two-minute warmup and a two-minute cool

Down on either side so pretty hard hard uh effort and remember they had they gave them this test where they looked at those 90 images for three seconds each and then they had a group then go through and they had them either exercise before that or exercise after

That or do no exercise then they did a followup uh test with them where they had them look at 180 images so they doubled the amount of images they were shown them for 3 seconds with those 3 to 4 second breaks but during this test

They had to ask which images they saw in the previous test and the interesting thing is that and they noted this across the board with the subjects they saw a substantial increase in the memory recall of the people that did the Hard Exercise after that first memory test so

Basically you study something then you exercise really hard it can help improve memory retention the researchers don’t they said we have no clue why this is the case because they looked at the people that exercised before and they had no significant Improvement compared to the control groups and this is around

25 people in each group so it’s a decent size it’s not like we’re dealing with a handful of people on each but it’s pretty interesting to see that doing studying and then exercising right after and it’s right after in this case effectively the same has this huge

Impact on your ability to or potentially a huge impact on on being able to retain information I feel like it’s you you’re exercising without any music or anything and like your brain just has something to think about right so you you kind of think about those things that you saw

And also Mark like um man uh maybe ADHD of like if you are interested in like you said those business um those business material business focus like case studies and now you actually understand it to more I remember in college I did not get good grades at all

Until I found information systems which was the thing that I was hyper like I was I liked it and I was hyper focused and I got straight a um it just I was interested in it so I could I I wanted to do the stuff I’d pay attention to

Class i’ go to class and same thing uh with I’ve also had the same thing too of reading studies about business when I was in college which I was interested in but now when I look at them I can like I pick them apart and like you know I see

Everything and I think I know the answer and it’s because I have that experience that’s so much easier to understand same thing like someone listen to this podcast there was no cycling experience versus someone who does imagine how your brain would drift if you didn’t know

Anything where FTP and BO2 and all that sort of thing cyclocross it’ be really hard to pay attention where if you have a lot of experience um it’d be good I mean you you it is good if you lot just leave it at that yeah five stars

Everyone the way well done the way I’m thinking on this one too I always need to be fidgeting like physically doing something in order for my mind to be able to focus on the subject like that’s how fny that’s how my mom is too it’s how I’ve

Been moving yeah sing ADHD yeah yeah stimming like stimulation yeah and that’s a common thing common thing with with ADHD in particular right Nate um Y and i’ like you know anything that I can fidget with I’ll just have like a Rubik’s Cube and I’m not solving it or

Anything but I’m just like spinning it around in my fingers while I’m thinking through something or I’m tapping I’m always doing something and that process of pedaling sometimes that metronomic effort it passes me into almost like a Trans State a lot of the time if I’m doing my easier workouts that’s when I

Get like Clarity that’s when I remember everything that I forgot to wrot write down in my notes that’s when I can have Clarity on my calendar and I can know what’s going on the next day all that stuff like that’s when I get the most

Clarity that I get so to Nate’s Point um you know there there’s probably a lot of different reasons behind it but at the very least it seems like this pairing of exercise and memory recall there is actually science or scientific evidence and in terms of experiments to back up

That it does work in terms of why exactly man there’s a lot going on um it helps too with your um this isn’t related to mark But the decline uh cognitive function decline as you age people who exercise don’t have as big a decline so everyone here is doing amaz

There’s so many things that like cycling helps um in exercise in general in your life so everyone should applaud themselves uh especially when you’re upset that you skipped your you know you skipped your Thursday threshold workout and you you’re Harding yourself but you’re really ahead of 99.99% of all

Humans uh if you were to compare that with which you shouldn’t but if you did uh in terms of health outcome and uh the benefit that you’re doing to your body oh yeah yeah it’s huge Nate sorry one quick thing on that note I was looking

At or I saw a study the other day that was looking at I believe it was can’t remember if it was Dementia or Alzheimer’s patients but it was looking at them and then it was having them do choreograph dance uh classes and it was showing that when they were doing the

Choreograph dance classes where they had movement paired with some sort of like recall of a pattern or instruction that they were following that it actually slowed the the progression of symptoms for those people and in some cases reversed for some subjects some aspects of the symptoms that they were having um

And that’s a a big thing that I think about I wonder even with structured training of just knowing that like all right I have this workout and I’m supposed to follow this workout and I’m I’m going to have six V2 intervals and those V2 intervals are going to be float

Sets like you talked about before 15 seconds on all those sort of things connecting in those different parts of your brain and your body you know it’s it’s cool to see that it’s beneficial for us in a lot of different ways so exciting stuff completely agree yeah if

You again if you’ve listened to this thanks so much we appreciate all of you you’re awesome you can give this video a thumbs up on YouTube you can share it with different people and that would just mean the world to us we don’t charge for this podcast we don’t do

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You faster uh we’ll giveing you your money back so go sign up for it give it a shot we’ll talk to you next week thanks everybody byebye