Piers Morgan vs Joey Barton And Pearl Davis On Female Football Commentators And ‘Tokenism’

Piers Morgan Uncensored is joined by ex-footballer Joey Barton, former Sky Sports commentator and presenter Bianca Westwood, YouTuber Pearl Davis and host of ‘The Offside Rule’ podcast Kait Borsay for an open debate on some of Barton’s recent tweets criticising the standard of female commentators in the men’s game and how they seem to be getting the role on tokenism and not merit.

Joey believes that the standard of journalism has dropped in football commentary because many ex-professional female players are being allowed to commentate Premier League games without having the experience or merit to deserve covering those games. He also adds that the female’s game is so different, that their experience cannot translate to the men’s game.

Bianca responds by saying that many pundits are not great when they first start out, using Gary Neville as an example as someone whose first time properly commentating the game on Monday Night Football as lacking quality.

Kait then questions why we don’t demand the same footballing experience from presenters such as Jake Humphrey, who have never played professional football.

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As a player Joey Barton was one of the most controversial men in football outspoken aggressive tempestuous rarely out of the headlines as a manager it wasn’t much different this week Barton stirred up a sexism Scandal by launching a furious broadside against female pundit analyzing men’s football on

Television it all began with a post saying women shouldn’t be talking with any kind of authority in the men’s game come on let’s be serious it’s a totally different game I cannot take a thing they say iy in the men’s Arena well since then he’s been called a sexist

Misogynist dinosaur but is he saying out loud what some men maybe many men are thinking as well well Joey Bon joins me live now uh Joey great to see you thank you very much for joining me P nice to see you you okay looking well you’ve had an interesting day uh

Take me back to the initial post that you put up on Twitter clearly inflammatory but that’s your way did you expect the reaction that you were going to get no well it’s it’s it’s part of the the the um you know when you say what you what sometimes you’re thinking it

Can it can obviously lead to you know a reaction it wasn’t entitled you know I didn’t do that I seen or certainly I’ve seen in my game where you know I do feel P I have enough credibility to say I’m probably a bonafied um expert um this kind of tokenism creep in especially

When it comes to you know it’s ruining certainly it’s ruining my experience of of both the game and obviously the the journalistic standards you know it it’s um It’s not nothing to do with sex sexism at all I mean what is your particular complaint is it that women have not

Played the game to the highest level and therefore they’re not qualified to talk about it P look I’m against tokenism and and I’m against um you know poor journalistic standards especially when it comes to the game I love which is football know know to everyone’s game you know but there’s two two slightly

Different uh variants obviously the men’s game and and the women’s game and all of a sudden if you speak out in favor of uh you know saying a men’s game people come to here and you know I’m getting accused of being rightwing because of I’ve said what clearly a lot

Of people are thinking about the journalistic standards of some of the you know female commentary and ccoms and punditry that that I’m seeing um in the game that I feel as I say I think I’m a Bonafide expert in I mean you said today uh I stand by

Everything I’ve said on women commenting and cooms on the men’s football like me talking about knitting or net ball way out of my comfort zone uh we’ve gone too far you can’t watch a game now without hearing the nonsense any man who says otherwise is an absolute fart parcel I

Mean do you accept that some of your language here was a little incend well well that is X or Twitter it was once known that that is what what those platforms are kind of used for as as we all use them it’s just a tool um

And it it leads to this debate or you know I don’t want to see sexism in football but if we don’t talk about this properly and debate this properly this is just going to further rise and and rise and ruin um as I say the experience of of watching

You know Elite level men’s football and and as I say every Everywhere You te now um there’s there’s for for what I would deem as an unqualified opinion um commentating pontificating about the sport I love and it’s it’s ruining my experience of it um and it’s it’s it’s

To fuel this woke agenda and if we’re not careful we’re going to in increase sexism massively because it’s it’s got to be a true meritocracy pce we have to have people who are let me ask you again you haven’t actually answer that to do those roles right but the question that I

Asked you which you haven’t answered yet what is it about the women that you think is is inappropriate is it because they have not played the game at the highest level of men’s football no p p as you know with me I’ll never not answer the question um no it’s

Absolutely not that it’s about as I say you have to be there on Merit like you can’t you can’t be there to to fit this woke agenda that we’ve currently got going on in society um you know there you don’t have to have played the game you know lots of managers haven’t played

The game at a at a high level lots of good commentary people haven’t played the game at a high high level kind of Mark Chapman Rory Smiths are this world um but they’ve earned the right via you know hard work and over a prolonged period to get into that space obviously

It helps talk about the men’s game if you’ve played that men’s game the higher the level arguably the better because it gives you a unique experience there’s a lot of similarities between both Sports peers absolutely no danger in that but the men’s game has just played at a completely different speed

With a completely different skill set needed you know and for someone to stand there and say I would have done this in this situation or he’s made a mistake there who have no experience of that um and and it’s not just one or two it’s it’s been taken over um you know and

Ruins the experience for for most men and it’s the men’s game and I feel I don’t I don’t want to come across a sex absolutely not I’ve got a wonderful daughter wonderful wife my grandmother big matriarch I want women at Men’s games you know at Bristol Rovers we had

Hair game to and it was a great initiative to get women in the stadiums but if we’re going to talk about the technical nuances of of elite level football and we want to educate the audience which is the punditry co- commentary role then we we must do that

With the most credible people not people who tick boxers or fill quoters and I do feel that at this moment in time okay but let me let me put two names to you you know let me put two names to you or three names right you’ve got someone

Like Alex Scott who won a World Cup as a women’s player right which is eluded eluded our men’s team I’m sorry I’m being told she didn’t win the World Cup but she certainly competed at a very high level for England for a very long time you’ve got

Laura Woods who’s one of the best I think one of the best football presenters in the game she’s a woman she’s been Furious today about what you said um you know what why should people like that be excluded from the men’s game no I’m absolutely not saying that

I’m saying if you’ve V the right to be there with with credibility and and and Hardware over a long period you should absolutely be there I’ve got a daughter I wondered if she would would like to Peter to to have the opportunity to commentate or co- commentate on a men’s

Game if that what she the men’s football game if that’s what you chooses but she should be there because she’s worked incredibly hard over over aolong period has got a great skill set not be just because she’s a woman and to fill a quota and this woke agenda this tokenism

We we have to be very very careful look look at what it’s doing to other sports and um you know I don’t want to see the sport that I love um ruined and and my experience as as a man it’s ruining I can’t what to tell you now for and and

And a lot of the information is technically incorrect that that these so-called experts women experts are saying about the men’s game it the factually incorrect but but someone but but Joey someone like Alex Scott right who has had tremendous success as a player been very successful as television presenter is she not

Qualified does she not meet your criteria to talk about the men’s game to talk about the men’s game yeah yeah well she she hasn’t played any she hasn’t played in in any any games I’ve played in and been involved as a manager in 657 professional men’s games now the

Women’s games are fantastic game at the minute thriving I’ve never seen as many opportunities you know the England team wins stuff at that in in the women’s game I think sander vman’s done a great job raising the awareness for the women’s game it’s phenomenal but the

Men’s game and the women’s game in this country are different one’s about 20 years old and ones about 30 40 years old if you go back to kind of dcast the Bells and and the inception for women I’ve lived through it I’ve played football with women have no problem but

Joe here’s my here’s my problem with the argument right if you look at people like mson greatest commentator I’ve ever seen Barry Davis right up there Clive tilsley Dez ler right none of them ever play professional football by your criteria why are they more qualified than someone like Alex Scott who is at

Least played for her country many times why are they more qualified having not played professional football in the end the rules of football are the same whether you’re male or foot or female they’re exactly the same rules they’re the same rules but it’s a complete football’s about a lot more than rules P

It’s time and space and velocity and impact and challenges and and and the games are at two different speeds it’s almost like if if I decide Sunday I’m going to um go to Formula One and I start saying listen I would have done this if I was Lewis Hamilton in this

Corner and i’ have done that and and rightly kard or or Damon Hill or you know Eddie Jordan Jordan or whatever would rightly turn down and say what you on about say well I drive a car I’ve got a driving license yeah but one’s going

To 200 mph and one’s going to maybe 80 70 mph tops in this country you know the different speed so to stand there and pontificate with authority and and actually when it’s factually incorrect it’s infuriating because I love hijack journalistic standards and I think we’re compromising it with this tokenism and

If if the girls let me ask you question good enough to get there it should be on a meritocracy it shouldn’t be on this tokenism because they’re filling the quote and we need to get um someone in there because it that will lead even further to to the sexism that we all

Want to avoid we want it to be diverse and inclusive but it has to be credible we’re talking about the best product we output is in this country is Premier League football the elite level football okay but Joey let me ask you got protect you’ve never played to my

Knowledge and correct me if I’m wrong you’ve never played Champions League or or World Cup football so does that qualify you yeah to talk not withstanding you’re a very good professional footballer does that qualify you by your yard stick to comment on Champions League football or World Cup football P everybody’s entitled to

Comment every you know I can talk about Premier League football can talk about Taekwondo but it’s about credibility and journalistic standards rather than this as I said this tokenism should be there on Merit not for quotas and if and there’s loads of you know women managers

You know m is fantastic CA vman we’ve spoken about if they come across and managing the men’s game I have no problem with that if they’re the best the best candidate similar with you know there is some female pundits out there who are capable and and and Avent

Credibility over a long period but also there’s lots at this moment there’s there’s a well I don’t want to name names I’m not here to name names there’s lots of good people um but also the majority are poor and the standards are poor and it’s factually incorrect information well I heard the comments

From the Liverpool uh Fulham game about you know the endo the the Japanese boy Endo scores and the commentator was female coom’s female and she talks about Endo scores with his laces now anyone who watched that who had any knowledge of football seen that Endo scored with

The side of his foot but no one because it was female ccoms and and and female uh commentator no one said I’m going a minute that didn’t happen so if you’re a young impressionable person who doesn’t know and you’re coming for high journalistic standards and content to

Educate and inform which is what we’re meant to do if we’re in those spots then then then we have to correct those mistakes and if and if it goes unchecked it it it it pulls the standard down and and we can’t allow that to happen for this woke agenda over

Everything did you think that Alan Hanson was a good commentator he’s he was fantastic right so when he said they’ll never win kids about Manchester United and they won it with kids he made a terrible mistake I mean does that discredit him who who hasn’t made a mistake we all

Make mistakes but over a prolonged period you have to have more successes than failures so to get the opportunity and this what we have to be careful of all those great commentators you mentioned before mty got rest a soul brilliant of what he did their opportunities are going to be restricted

Because female ex- female players are getting those opportunities so we got to be careful here because you know I want a healthy game where women can go to the football and enjoy it which they are I’ve never seen more women PS out football matches than what I currently see or women’s opportunities within

Football and that’s fantastic and long may that continue we need to be incredibly inclusive right across the board but it has to be for people who are good enough who who’ve eared the right to be there I don’t care where you’re from how many games you’ve played

But you have to have a body of work that’s credible to get you there not just you get an opportunity because you fill a quoted or you tick a box and we’ve got we’ve got to say it call it for what it is and the world’s gone

Crazy all right let’s take a short break when we come back I’ve got three women lined up who will be responding to you Joey but you’ve agreed to stay and listen to what they have to say and I’ll get your response to that as well well welcome back to P when uncensored uh

Joey Barton’s given a defense of his views about female pundits in football so are female pundits qualified to talk about the men’s game well I’ve got some women here who would like to respond uh and they are Bianca Westwood who was the first ever female football reporter for soccer

Saturday Paul Davis is a youtubing antifeminist and Kate B is a co-founder and presenter of the offside Rule and football 365 all right let me start with you Bianca I’d imagine that you were going slightly nuts as you heard that but maybe I I I don’t want to speak for

You what is your response yeah absolutely I mean usually I wouldn’t give those kinds of opinions any particular Credence but the way in which he tweeted especially calling out the young girl the vlogger from Manchester City I just thought it was out of order because I’ve been on the

The wrong end of dogs abuse when I very first started reporting and it it it it didn’t sit well with me this is a young girl she’s on social media she’s not presenting news night she’s not saying she’s an expert in football she’s there because viewers of football are changing

We’re getting more stream we’re getting more influences and and that’s that’s a different argument entirely so that’s particularly the reason why I didn’t like what he said but who is qualified to speak on football then because I’ve been watching the game for over 40 years my first game

At West Ham was before Joey Barton was even born um I’ve been watching the game the whole time I’ve watched hours and hours and hours of football I worked behind the scenes at Sky for 10 years before I was even given a shot on camera watching many of my male colleagues who

Were probably not always as good as I was getting chances that I was never given so I don’t really understand exactly what you need to know how long do we need to work in the game behind the scenes before we’re allowed on on camera to be a pundit you know the laws

Are the same I can read a game of football Emma Hayes Serena vman can both read games of football are you saying that they can’t provide Insight it sounds to me like Joey’s got a problem with particular female pundits who to his knowledge haven’t done enough in the

Game but how does he know and and how do do we quantify and qualify that because there are efl players who are commenting cooms being pundits on Champions League games what level do you have to get to before you’re allowed as far as Joey Barton is concerned to be able to be a

Pundit on the men’s game well that’s a that’s a yeah that’s a good question let me bring in Kate Kate what is your response to Joey B I think it’s really clear that Joey doesn’t appreciate that women can study journalism too and they can study Sports journalism and if

You’re Bianca Westwood you can watch thousands of hours of football and commentate and Report into a Sky Sports Studio as she did for decades on the men’s game and be very informed there has to be something more to this I think look let’s take Alex Scott okay she’s

Got a degree in sports writing and broadcasting she’s played for England 140 times times she played for her Club career over two decades how is she not qualified to talk about the game just like any other pundit whether you’re talking about Mark Chapman Jake Humphries none of them have played the

Game but they’ve done the same as the rest of us they’ve studied journalism they love the game and they’re expressing their learned opinion and assessment on the game I don’t understand why that’s so tricky well Pearl I can see you rolling your eyes there you clearly don’t

Agree well I keep seeing women given special handouts and special treatment I’m seeing the same thing that he’s seeing you know um one thing you didn’t put in in my bio is I’m actually a semi-pro athlete I’ve been involved in athletics for 20 years um and no men and

Women’s sports are not the same men jump higher they run faster so I I see where he’s coming from when I was listening to him talk he was talking about the best person for the job should be the one that gets it I I didn’t see anything

Wrong with what he said but some of the women who are getting these jobs are the best women I mean I at I’ve looked at their Instagrams they look like influencers I mean I mean come on I don’t understand why you is an influence the one the one girl you guys

Brought up earlier I I didn’t know her but I’ve seen women’s soccer um or sorry football here I’m in the UK um but women’s football they they make it into an agenda and it becomes a political agenda and I hate it it ruins the sanctity of women’s sports then it just

Becomes all about this woke nonsense I I agree with him I think it needs to be the best person for the job I think it is the best person for the job and I don’t know what kind of problem Joey’s got is this a woman’s problem s effectively Jo is saying Joe

Is saying that his eight nyear old daughter can never grow up to be a football commentator yes why do you guys put words well how is she different how is she different if she goes stud journalism let about the game let me bring joy back just like Kelly Kat how’s that

Different all right let’s Joey’s been listening to all this Joy well said I take on board every you know I’ve known I’ve known Bianca being in around the game for as long as she has and she’s worked incredibly hard and does a fantastic job she I wouldn’t say Bianca’s there on token

That’s not what you know she’s worked incredibly hard and has AED that recognition and reward within the industry but that’s not everybody that’s in the game on the female commentary side that’s not and as the as the lady rightly points out there she’s seeing exactly what I’ve said this is not

Sexism this is saying the best person for the opportunity should get that role we’ve seen when when an inch has been given in other sports you know I think you know maybe in your collegate swimming we’ve seen huge problems with um L Thomas and Riley Gaines and I don’t

Want to even go into that but we got to be careful that we we promote the best person for for the job who’s worked the hardest to get there and for for me in the in the com the sport that I believe I’m a Bonafide expert the women haven’t

Reached the level in the commentating and punditry of the men you know and and and they getting opportunities that we strict the men’s opportunities and that’s wrong we shouldn’t create we should create a meritocracy the best who work the hardest with the most ability get get on and and get better and get

Rewarded let me let me just say something come to I’ll come to wait a minute wait a minute time out everybody I want to just readback Joey’s own words with that first tweet it wasn’t a question of meritocracy you said women shouldn’t be talking with any kind of authority in

The men’s game come on let’s be serious it’s a completely different game Bianca there was no there was no meritocracy there it was all women okay no no no listen Bianca do you think the Bianca can I just ask you a question question and I respect your opinion massively I respect your opinion

Massively do you think the women’s game and the men’s game is the same game the laws of the game are exactly the same the same rules apply you know whether it’s yellow card red card offside you can read the game it’s still exactly the same there’s two goals and

11 players play can BR have you ever been tackled at full speed it’s about that have you ever been tackled at full speed by a fully grown man Andes CH op to do with it you seem to have changed your opinion Joey when you were earlier you had a problem with

Women who waly to talk about the game around to talk about the game and now you’re saying the game’s different what you have a problem with he’s changing his mind he’s changing his mind all the time have you got a problem with the journalistic coverage or have you

Got a problem with the playing of the game please don’t all talk over each other you’re just shouting at me I can’t hear you being a top player doesn’t mean you’re serious conversation this is becoming a fast but not all the men’s game I’m here to talk about giving these

Women a chance Joey you’re not get CH by you to have a sensible conversation not everybody is a consumate broadcaster when they very first start did you ever see Gary Neville when he was first on Monday Night Football he said himself he wasn’t brilliant you have to learn on the job when you’re

Live you can’t learn live television anywhere but live television that doesn’t mean they don’t know anything about the game maybe they’re just not brilliant at broadcasting yet when I start is that women keep getting absolutely terrorized she’s not than anyone else you’ve not done you’ve not done this either I got absolutely

Terrorized when I first started live reporting because people said I knew nothing about football that wasn’t the case I’ve been watching football since I was we’re not talking about you I wasn’t a great broadcaster at maybe these female pundits have to be given a chance now I get men coming up

To me she talking foring how great I am i’ like to know I’d like to know from Joey Bart which which women are not qualified to do this because I see some very talented you give one name some really good job and I’d like to know

Which ones do not deserve it’s a one name Jo before Man City so he should tell us is are you guys let me ask Joy one name Joey is someone you don’t think is up to it one name Bianca would you like one name one name one name I’m not even I’m

Not I’m not even going there I’m I don’t have to give his anything I’ve come on sensibility debate and you just want to shout the problem is Jo when you talk about all right i’ got to leave it there when you talk about this I’m going to

Leave it there all I would say listen Everyone’s entitled their opinion all I listen we got to leave it there all I would say is I I do think think Joey I do think Joey’s being a bit unfair if you talk about all women in your Tweet

And then you won’t name a single woman you actually personally object to but think it should be a meritocracy that is a confusing message but look I will say also as I end this I will say this I will say now we’ve ended the debate I

Will say this there are a lot of men who I saw replying to Joey and they’ve replied to us who agree with him so this is a debate that probably ought to be aired and we’ve had it and I appreciate you all joining me so thank you very much entitled