Gordon Ramsay Exclusive: It’s Time To Tell My Full Story

On this episode: a rare and poignant conversation on the life, aspirations, and motivations of chef and TV icon Gordon Ramsay.

“I don’t want to stay in my lane, I want to own my lane”

Gordon Ramsay is a chef, restaurateur and television presenter, known for Kitchen Nightmares, Masterchef and Hell’s Kitchen. In this conversation, Gordon delves deep into what really drives him, how to cultivate a winning mindset and the most crucial lessons from his career so far. He shares with Jake and Damian how growing up in a challenging household, living in 15 different homes and a difficult relationship with his father, instilled in him a sense of purpose.

After suffering a career-ending football injury as a teenager, Gordon found his passion for the culinary arts. He discusses how he found the strength and resilience to pick himself back up from such a setback. Alongside his career developments, Gordon also shares the key to strong and successful family relationships. He highlights the importance of commitment and making time, even during the heights of his career. Gordon also speaks candidly about the experience of losing a child and how he and his partner have dealt with the trauma, focusing on the basis of their relationship: friendship.

Looking ahead, Gordon considers his future goals, including the pursuit of a third Michelin Star in France, which he regards as his final swan song in the culinary world. Despite his remarkable achievements across a forty-year career, Gordon and his team are far from finished.

Warning: There is swearing in this episode.

In collaboration with Mission, we’ve created an enhancement of a cultural classic.

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0:00 Trailer
2:06 Marco Pierre White
8:53 Football injury
11:17 Gordon’s dad
16:25 Inspirational chefs
22:59 Finding hope
28:03 Mission tea
29:03 Hard work
31:37 Marcus Wareing
33:45 Needing a break
38:29 Gut instincts
43:52 Television
52:45 Family
1:02:26 Quickfire questions

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Well Gordon first of all thank you so much for funing the time to join us good to see you bud and you uh what is high performance high performance for me is a double-edged sword it’s dangerous very very few make it and then when you’re on that edge you you understand the consequences

When you can’t get a high performance so certain issues with perfection is hard to sort of congregate your mind on a daily basis but high performance is about relentlessness in my mind so are you a perfectionist I’m a self-confessed perfectionist yeah I had a uh a proper

Insight to Perfection early on in my career and that’s a path that you you know there’s Lanes in life isn’t there and I’m done with that [ __ ] about H stay in your lane I I want to own my lane and that’s that’s high performance

On a daily basis I I need that shot I think it’s one of the most exciting Industries to be in uh as a restaurant a chef cook whatever you want to call it um but there’s also the [ __ ] end of the stick there’s the double shifts and defrosting frozen food and sticking [ __ ]

In a fryer that’s the that’s the lower divisions of food and I was determined to get the [ __ ] out of there early because when you start in this industry you go through those divisions I remember a chef back in stra upon aen um where I grew up was showing me how to

Make a roast potato and he was peeling the potatoes blanching them in the deep fat fryer and then sprinkling [ __ ] Bal dust over the top and that was the roast potato so that scared the [ __ ] out of me and I think you need to have both ends of the spectrum done understand

High performance but it’s about climbing that Division and and owning it so I’m interested where the understanding of what you’re capable of comes from can you remember the first time that you you saw almost saw the possibilities that life can offer if you actually go for something yeah that’s a good question I

Think when I stood alongside Marco Marco piwine you for two years side by side 16 hours a day Relentless because I was in that pursuit of perfection and this guy put food on a plate like Picasso yeah and I I I wanted to get that level of

Discipline and so um Marco was up north um with some food critic away for the weekend and um for some unknown reason I can’t remember but he couldn’t couldn’t come back to the restaurant to open it after the holidays and all of a sudden I

Was in charge and he was on the phone every two minutes explaining what to do but I knew what to do but I’d never been given the Reigns and at 22 when you’re dropped the [ __ ] like that it sink or swim so I didn’t really understand the

Amount of pressure I was under at that particular time but what I did see was empty plates coming back from the restaurant and it was a high octane two Mission star establishment and every customer was licking their lips every customer couldn’t quite believe how good

The food was and it was that moment [ __ ] Mark is not here but what he’s given me and taught me I’ve just replicated now I need to become individual I need to step away from what you show me and I need to search for my own DNA but you you already though had

Something because you don’t end up in a Marco Pier white kitchen unless you’re already grafting chasing Perfection thinking that you actually deserve to be there like even further back I know you played football as a young guy like was this mindset that Gordon was destined for something there when you were 12 13

14 15 that’s a tough one um I was I was hungry I was uh in pursuit of something to better myself um it’s interesting when you grow up with a um a disadvantage childhood at the time you don’t know it’s that bad but there is embarrassing moments at school where

You’re called out to do the sort of the photographs and you got to go with the family because I had my brother and my sister at the same school because you weren’t allowed to do it individually because your parents would never pay for that and then there was the

Embarrassment every day when you went into the refectory for lunch we had lunch and vouchers and there was a separate queue and so it was like Council house kids on the left hand side and Posh kids on the right hand side and that gave you a complex that gave you a

A sort of a Stern warning to get your [ __ ] together so I think that’s what helped shape me for that level of hunger to get focused because I wasn’t embarrassed about what my mom put on the table I was embarrassed about the way it was segregated in a way that you were

Made to feel separate from the classroom because your mom and dad couldn’t afford to give you any money for school lunch and we have many people listening to this who like you come from a a difficult upbringing and a disadvantaged background but also a lot of people will

See you as the hugely famous hugely successful Chef yeah and not maybe know that story when you when you think about how hard those days were where does your mind take you back to if you’re happy to share you know actually how difficult it was yeah I’m grateful

I’m grateful for those um moments um there was no distractions in those days so um you sort of clung on to anything that shiny and spending time with my mom at work getting into this little tiny restaurant helping her prep vegetables was a godsend that was before football

Practice that was after school but also just growing up and watching her handle three jobs Christmas morning one of the most exciting mornings for a kid uh across the year should be that moment seeing your mom and dad but I didn’t see uh my mom because she was out working so

You sort of you you then understand just how hard life can be and you don’t walk around looking for a pity party you just want to you want to better yourself you want to you want to put a new Benchmark under the name Ramsey and create something different how did you take the

Mindset of you know because anyone that has that early on there is a moment where they think why is this my life why do I have challenge how did you go about turning those negative experiences into into positive action yeah I’ve always been a solution solver I’ve never sat

There even at that age even because I got involved with sport early on and so I was super fit good at what I did and I think having a chance to get involved with football at a high level and that’s been taken away from you was a big blow

And so you don’t sit there and become bitter for the rest of your life it’s just dust yourself down mom always told me you know deal with it get get on it early get your priorities right you know focus on what you want out of life and

So those those traits still sit there daily even today what what do you want out of today what’s the what’s the solution when we get problems so um I think growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating and he taught me in many ways how to

Become a greata by doing the opposite of what he showed me and so I was desperate for that chance to get out of that mess and create something special um for myself what sort of father was he um didn’t really get on with him in a way that he um in many ways

Was maybe some fair to say a failed musician but he was into music um played with the Marty Wilds had these band did records Etc but I remember on multiple occasions we’re going in and out bars lumping gear every Saturday night and then sat watching him and it was never

Uh a fun evening cuz as the drinks got bigger the room got feistier and all of a sudden um you’re sort of rushed out in the back of a Transit van and and you’re sort of Disappearing so I never really had that connect with him we never

Really bonded we never really spent a lot of time together so you know I make up for that now having two sons You Know Jack and Oscar and so um we we learn from the defaults don’t you and mom was my mother and father cuz that’s how strong she was and that’s that’s

Admirable from a woman that was that was that was the connect that you know we I didn’t envisage because I never thought I’d be looking towards my mom for you know Dad’s incompetence and she filled that void beautifully and that’s that’s an amazing Bond when you got that with

Your mom and you mentioned football at an early age you were playing at Rangers yeah um and you said it gets taken away from you your career was ended really early on by injury right rapidly um yeah I was fit as a fiddle you know 6’2 naturally left footed um very very few

Individual got past me and so I was you know I was a steam train I remember playing uh at a testimonial uh for the first team got my first call up and of course he just broken into the first team he was playing for Scotland under

21s I was 18 at the time DAV MC ferson just got his first big call up and so all of a sudden you’re in this amazing team you’re on the sheet your name’s there number three on the back of the shirt and I went in for this 50/50

Tackle and it was it was crunch um and I I laid there in such pain tore my crucial ligament and um smash my carage then we didn’t have Private health care you didn’t get whisked off to Germany for the the latest surgeon you were you’re on the rubber sheep

You’re in the Scrapy because there’s four or five guys behind me instantly to take my place so that was devastating then I came back down to uh banry in Oxfordshire and I lived in a council flat with my sister uh and then got got into college got

Into um catering as a way of becoming independent and moving further away from the upset that was you know in my mind on a daily basis how painful was that oh [ __ ] I mean really painful but brutally painful especially when your are making it and they’re progressing and you’re seeing the

Headlines you’re purposely not watching um the news you’re purposely not finding out the scores at 5 to 5 on a Saturday afternoon because you you want to move away from that so it was that moment that my mom taught me dust yourself down pick yourself up and go again and then

That freedom with the connection with food all of a sudden started to really resonate the sort of the breadth of what you need to understand and then I got to London I I had to head to London I had to go into somewhere unique in order to

Learn unique things because if you want to be one of the best you need to work with the best and it’s not about money it’s not about hours you just need to work with the best whatever they do you need to follow suit and that’s a that’s a a short-term investment for a

Long-term gain I wonder you know whether as difficult as those early years were with your relationship with your dad and you know you said basically humiliation at school oh you’re you’re in the poor kids queue right yeah I wonder whether actually those experiences equip you for

At the end of your football career to kind of find a way forwards rather you know people get derailed for derailed for years after that kind of yeah well I had a similar parel because I could see my father not making it and breaking out in music and not being sought after

Couldn’t earn a living and look after the family fulltime he swam from Scotland at the age of 15 and so he had this incredible uh strong sort of sport background but I could see this failed you know music guy that wasn’t making it money was getting less and less the gigs

Weren’t coming in and all of a sudden you know he ended up playing in crappy bars and and and and sat there with a little pile of CDs which was embarrassing so um I witnessed him clinging on to something that was never going to happen and it was to the

Family’s detriment that they all struggled because of him hanging on to something that didn’t provide for the family and so in many ways with that shock of having the football taken away and witnessing my dad clinging on to something for too long it made me more

Decisive and in business you need to be decisive and so from an early age I was super on it to what I needed to do uh to get out the mess that I was born in it’s a good reminder isn’t it for all of us that just because something’s hard for

You doesn’t mean it isn’t actually good for you have you managed to sort of resolve that in your own head that maybe you are grateful for some of those early experiences because you wouldn’t be sitting here having this conversation super grateful and also it releases you from

That yeah but listen we haven’t been diagnosed with a horrendous disease yeah you haven’t been given six months to live so you got to sort of you got to you got to live in the real world I do that I I calibrate that on a daily basis

So um I got over that early and then I had father figures in my life Marco Pier white was like a big brother father figure Alber Ru leav Ros was another father figure um gwa in Paris all of a sudden you start going to their wings and once you’re talent in that division

Then all they do is pass you on to Absolute amazing establishments to sort of learn and I think the secret early on was every time I got to a level next time I went into another establishment I came down a level to learn even greater cuz sometimes when you jump too high the

Learning stops because they want to know what you’ve just been taught so that was [ __ ] um for me because it wasn’t making me any better and I was on that Pursuit danana all this info Intel Intel everywhere I went give me the Intel what is it how does that Salo work perfectly

How do you how do you bone out a pigeon beautifully and not waste anything on that carcass and so that that intel was this this Gathering of incredible stuff um in the prep for this interview reading the the journey and the story through the culinary establishments was probably the most interesting and

Rewarding part for me let’s talk about where it all began uh so you’ve taken the leap you’ve headed down you’ve gone to Technical College yeah you’re living in a flat yeah when you take yourself back to the the Gordon Ramy mindset at that point what was it listen there was

Um um a charity called bamry round table and I think every town has these Round Table Charities they paid for my first set of [ __ ] whites they bought my first set of knives they bought my first floppy hat and so everyone asked why do you do so much for charity you it

Started with charity and so if it wasn’t for that incredible moment I think it was 62 quid for a set of knives two chef jackets horrendous trousers and these [ __ ] ridiculous clogs that no one could walk in and so all of a sudden these knives were your possession and

Your sort of tools and so I was polish them shot me every day and I remember nipping the end off one of them ones and I was gutted the fact and these knives were cheap these were £17 for a set of like 25 knives but you respect them and

So that moment for me was you’ve got all the tools now do something with it and then there’s that level of insecurity that can’t be apparent when you’re standing next to such talent because you want to know what they’ve got and you have to be a sponge without insecurity

Because the insecurity stops you from learning because you think you’re never going to get there and so kitchens are tempestuous boisterous environments and always you see that piston firing every day and they’re all on the make because they want to be Superstars and it’s a tough environment but I then related

Those moments back to the dressing room at I Brooks and if you think a kitchen stuff wait to see or hear some of the [ __ ] you get told and called in a dressing room where no one’s listening and you’re getting pummeled so that gave me the the armor and that coat of

Resilience to get on in the industry not fast trck but to take the blows when necessary let’s talk about the steps then yeah who was the first person that you met the first chef where you thought that is that is what I want to be truthly I’d say marip piwine when we

Came down to um London for a big exhibition in the industry it was called Hotel Olympia and um we came down for the weekend from bamry and we never got anywhere near a famous chef the closest we got was to uh a necer chief belonging to Anton mozman

That was in a glass box outside the [ __ ] doorchester hotel and we’ drive by this hotel and we were sort of told to get off the bus and go and look at Anton adelman’s white starched hat and his neckerchief and that was the closest we

Got and so think about that you know and then standing next to someone like Marco you’re you you’re grateful but you’re going to be one of the most talented sponges he’s ever had by his side so yeah you access it quickly when you’re on that drive for success and at this

Point what is the drive is the drive I want to become successful is the drive I want to escape where I’ve come from is the drive I just absolutely love food like what was the I saw a chance I saw a chance of becoming unique I think we’re

All blessed with that in our lives somewhere how did you see that though I could I could sense it because it made me ignite I could see this incredible sort of beginning of something unique and I think when we look at individuals figureheads in our lives and we want to

Aspire to become them but when they give you what they’ve got all of a sudden there’s this treasure chest of uniqueness and so that was unfolding weekly and then there’d be new kids starting in that kitchen and within 48 hours they were gone they couldn’t handle the heat how did that make you

Feel Stronger Yeah because we thrive on other people’s weaknesses in that business and that’s a selfish uh thing to admit but I’m going to be honest with you we thrive on other people’s weaknesses especially in the kitchen but that that gave you hype and it gave you the sort of you

Know the chest beating moment where you can stand stand tall and I used to laugh cuz we were short staffed we’d operate Monday to Saturday 16 17 hours a day Sunday off you’re [ __ ] I mean I used to wake up on Sunday midday and and I was [ __ ] I mean just physically

Mentally exhausted we’d live on lucazade and Mars Bars and then Marco would say hey look we got four new members of Staff starting on Monday don’t worry we’re going to cut your hours we’re going to start taking half days off during the week and we’ll get down to

Five and a half day week you think back then five and a half day week and that was the dream but these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning and we’d have bets who’d be there within 24 hours they just disappeared they

Could not stand the Heat and so it made you stronger was there ever a moment where you thought this is Relentless this is ridiculous this is not what I thought it was I can’t handle the heat I’m going to get out of the kitchen never not once [ __ ] no never I

Wanted it I absolutely wanted it because I could see this opening of Escape I could see the the sort of um the the grind the gret the determination all paying off and and I was becoming better don’t forget so you got to sort of self-reflect a little bit because all of

A sudden I’d mastered a toini I could make beautiful pasta I understood how to braze you know short ribs and so that’s the payoff and when you’re not getting that substance back and you’re not learning on that level then it’s time to quit but I was I was learning so fast I

Mean it was just it was it was incredible to what I was gaining you know um when I was a teenager I lost my grandma to Suicide right which was so difficult because we were like about as close as you can get Grandma and Grandson and I saw a and then I was

Wondering why did life change so much for me straight after that and I saw a quote not long ago saying people who’ve gone through trauma have a fire lit inside them that people who haven’t can never quite understand I’m sort of there’s a sense of that now I think yeah

There is I mean trauma is a that’s a tough word I mean I I think I put that down to experience because it it it didn’t it didn’t take me out I also had the parallel of my little brother 15 months younger than me uh as a heroin

Addict and so I had to constantly remind myself that him and I were mates him and I were sleeping in a bunk bed in a council house on multiple occasions and this kid was always underneath me and messing around and lifting up the bunk bed and literally with his feet moving

The [ __ ] thing to the left left and you know halfast 2 in the morning shaking it and so we had fun and so you have to remind yourself that if I don’t stand the straight and narrow I don’t get out of this [ __ ] mess and I don’t

Climb that ladder I don’t get good and I don’t start earning my own um keep if I can’t get my own uh property if I can’t invest in bricks and mortar that’s the result and so it’s a very fresh reminder on a daily basis between your ears get

Your [ __ ] together because close to you there’s an addict that’s on the verge of killing himself self that’s your little brother and then I I I saw mom’s frustration never having a chance to own her own house and so I think for any woman and guy you know security is in

Bricks and mortar and we were we we never they never owned anything and so and when Dad was you know incredibly drunk he turned the place over and then Mom would be left getting superlu putting all these vases together her favorite bits of you know uh China

And so at the age of 19 I bought my first flat um a tiny little one-bedroom flat in banry and that was my payoff I I I felt then that [ __ ] you know I’m proud I’ve got a mortgage I’ve got a flat and um I got a make staying there but I’m

Also progressing my career so I was I was almost in this cycle to sort of better myself too quickly because of the sort of let down I felt for my father and Brilliant that you were able to take those steps forwards which is kind of that stretch and reward thing you were

Getting stretch you were getting the rewards tiny rewards yes tiny tiny rewards that’s what you need though it’s a speckle it’s a speckle but it gives you hope it gives you confidence you’re becoming more into it and all of a sudden you’re starting to you’re starting to calculate the benefits

Because you’re outsmarting the [ __ ] standing behind you and then you’re sort of you were feeling better and even at 19 20 21 no matter what happened I had more security at the age of 19 and my father did at 55 and while you were having these small

Steps forwards youve also had this I guess a star for you at the time Marco Pier white in the kitchen in guiding you challenging you probably no doubt pushing you to your limits you’ve spoken so much about him over the years yeah I’ve heard numerous times You’ said oh

Marco I just had you know it was incredible what a what a guy yeah what was it um I think we had similar backgrounds he lost his mom at a young age and his father he didn’t have a good relationship so I think you you sort of you attach yourself to similar

Circumstances and then there was an ER of confidence that he knew he was better than the field he’ worked for Nico Alber Pierre Raymond blong and all of a sudden you know he was the new kid on the Block and I knew after spending a couple of

Years with Marco that I had to come back to the fold with something different so that’s what got me into the gavros under the R Brothers because it was an area of sort of fine dining that I’d never been exposed to three star Michelin Marco was

Two and and and and Le gavros was three but even before I went to Le gavros I knew I had to go to France because I had to come back to the fold and outsmart Marco he’d never gone to France he got stopped in his tracks and he got too big

Too soon so he couldn’t disappear to France so I knew in my my engine room I had that little advantage that I’m going to [ __ ] off to France become French absorb myself in one of the most amazing countries in the world and just gather more Intel and come back uh and outsmart

Everybody in London did you love the idea of arriving green behind the gills inexperienced in Marco’s kitchen and then having in your head that one day I’m going to be a better Chef than you yeah cuz he wanted you to he pushed you to the extreme how

Did he do that because because you know he drummed it in you know if you’re going to do it do it to your best and if you don’t want to do it to your best get the [ __ ] out of here don’t waste my time and certainly don’t waste yours and I

Think there’s a lot of life lessons early on because you’re getting structured you’re getting hungry you’re getting knowledge and all of a sudden you’re becoming a beast because of the monster he created and the monster you’re working for and so I see those environments all the time and I say to

The individuals stay in that environment get what you need need and get out and when the [ __ ] hits the fan learn to dance in the storm it’s a great place to be in because somewhere down the line there’s going to be a [ __ ] storm on your

Radar and you’re going to stand tall in that storm and you’re going to get through it and when the storm would come to you in the kitchen yeah what was the best way to get out of that storm solution because I was experienced enough to handle that and I’d know there

Wasn’t any area in that kitchen restaurant bar wine seller I hadn’t tackled and so that’s what you go in search of and I knew my weaknesses and that’s why stepping into Le gavage I’d never baked before but if I’m going to have my own business I need to

Understand how to bake a pan poan a s for catch I need to understand that but I came out of Harvey under maros tener going into the gavros I was I was you know posted to get on the fish and the meat the top two sections but no I

Wanted to become a baker because it one bit that I hadn’t un the chemistry of baking so on that trajectory you’ve got to still find those weaknesses to enhance you know that platform to make sure it is solid so when that [ __ ] storm comes you are not depending on anybody

Because you’ve got it in your itinerary when you getting arrogant at any point in this period and needing to be slapped down or did you remain humble and I think I think arrogant is is the wrong word it’s called confidence right and that’s misconstrued to those that are

Lesser talented than you a look at that arrogant [ __ ] he he he doesn’t uh he doesn’t he doesn’t like being told no dude I’ve got my [ __ ] together I know my [ __ ] you you’re a dreamer and in this industry like many you know Industries there’s there’s there’s there’s dreamers

That want it but haven’t got it to commit haven’t got it with mindset haven’t got it with their broad shoulders and haven’t got it in their attitude so yeah I’m going to put that down to confidence not arrogance yeah there’s a big difference Jake so what’s arrogance then is arrogance having the

Confidence without the hard work and the ability to back it up or no arrogance is mthing off you can do it and not living up to the [ __ ] potential hey everyone it’s Jake here with some big news I am drinking our first ever high performance drink we have created an amazing partnership with

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Episode can we talk then about hard work attention to detail because everywhere you look everyone tells you I work really hard I pay great attention to detail yes um take us into those early years as a chef what what did hard work actually look like yeah hard work was that

Relentless fifth sixth gear standing in front of a tiny team and remaining as an example where you’re focusing on their weaknesses offloading everything you’ve got and then still finding gears that the team around you never thought you’d have setting examples first in last out um being more personable with the staff

In a way that you’re you’re sort of you’re shown them how good they can become but they need to commit to to being good for as long a period as you can get out of them and that takes a lot of convincing because when you’re learning it becomes

So much more crucial when that that that that teacher is inspirational so you can’t shut down so I learned to open up early on and then there’s this this level of unselfishness chefs are precious dainty little Souls that are guarded with everything they’ve got they don’t want to give much so um I

Understood the importance of opening up and talking and showing and then when the [ __ ] is the fan here’s why it went wrong this is what we’re going to do dust yourself down bounce back and that Journey on the way back is so much more rewarding than sitting on top and I said

To them the mistakes you’ve just made I’ve made a thousand of them but never the same mistake twice hard work is just that and then hard work is about beating competition it’s about being in front of the industry and in our industry you you move it or it moves you

And customers vote with their feet Jay no one Rings you up and said you know what wasn’t that good I’m not coming back they vote with their feet so as a stun indicator I used to look at the waiting list every day and see the waiting list I to make sure there’s a

Waiting list equivalent to the entire dining room so we never dropped the ball and it was just a message to every around me look we got 45 booked for dinner and there’s [ __ ] 45 on the waiting list understand the importance of making sure you got a backup plan B everyone needs a

Plan B in life and sometimes there’s a plan C in your head but you never want to talk about it but you do need it that’s interesting what a good way to keep the staff humble I want to play you a clip when you mentioned giving back

And sharing yes with um Marcus wearing has been on the podcast before okay he just spent three and a half years with Marco white at Harvey’s the rock and roll kitchen the the kitchen that was unlike no other in anywhere in this country that had ever seen anyone had

Ever seen before and so he came into gavros with that training that tasting that attention to detail that Perfection on The Cutting of the fish that brilliant supporting food on the plate taste taste taste you look around the kitchen people weren’t tasting food they would just go through a process and

That’s the one thing that was a point of difference so that was when as I focused on him I added that into my Arsenal just kept adding and adding and adding and just love and mimic it because he was mimicking Marco but Marco was I never had the chance to work with

Marco how yeah interesting yeah mimicking was a good word I mean I suppose I was I was I was I was grateful and fortunate that I was given that uniqueness from him and that’s going back to what he said earlier about the arrogance that’s why it is in many ways

It looks oh my God how cocky is he no trust me there’s a price to pay for Success you can’t buy it but you can be taught it and I’m done with all that [ __ ] but well it’s got to be your DNA you need a nono your grand Grandma

Needs to be a great chef that is absolute [ __ ] [ __ ] but like anything is successful you can work at it and and I can I can prove that on multiple occasions I have a different technique with young chefs today I teach them how to taste first before I teach

Them how to cook because they don’t understand how it tastes to Perfection they shouldn’t be cooking it so let’s talk about the taste Factor let’s close your eyes uh tell me what that tastes of and so then there’s multiple taste tests that is called an education on the

Pallet and then we go to cook so they understand what it tastes like at its absolute moment of perfection then we’re going to cook it and too many chefs cook first and then they start tasting no taste the [ __ ] thing first register where we’re going with it and then go

Back it’s the opposite way around but it works brilliantly and I think when we when we discuss this story of relentlessness and attention to detail and focus and drive you you started this podcast by saying high performance is actually a double-edged sword yeah and I’m I right thinking that there was a

Moment where you had to did you take time out and go and work on a boat yeah I sort of crammed this sort of sixe uh incredible Cy sort of uniqueness um two star three star three star two star establishments uh I was being to a pulp and um I was [ __ ] um

And there’s that moment in your mind right time out and I was 25 years of age didn’t have a pot to piss him by the way I had to reverse charges calling my mom which was always embarrassing and she was this amazing woman that you know worked for the Social Security and she

On the back of the way that she was abused in her marriage she then went and worked in these incredible um homes for battered women and so she was connected to all the sort of local police stations and she worked for women’s Aid and it was this incredible sort of job she had

Mentoring these young women and so I remember phoning her and reversing the charges and I felt so [ __ ] bad but I said Mom I’m reversing the charges because I’m skinned so what are you doing I said I’m going to go and work on a boat said what why are you going on a

Boat I said I just need some time out so I got down to uh Monaco and there’s a sort of a yachty world down there um and it’s it’s a beautiful thing to do providing it doesn’t suck you in and it’s a little bit like the Raw below

Deck if you thought the below deck today you should have seen it [ __ ] 20 years ago it was it was W it was ridiculous and I got into this amazing boat with this wonderful uh owner a private man incredibly private beautiful man called reg Grundy at the time he had s of the

Century and neighbors as his big hits Australian and he was based in Bermuda and he wanted a personal chef so it was the most glorious 12 [ __ ] months of my entire life because you know what I was doing in this tiny Galley two hours

A day was a fraction of what I was doing but all this knowledge was going back to him and he wasn’t didn’t want to find IR he just wanted really good food cook beautifully so we met the boat in Monaco went down to Sardinia Sicily did all the south of

France and then um October we crossed the Atlantic and went over to Antiga and did the cariban it was a taxfree salary uh had an amazing cabin beautiful life I was doing three tank Dives a day scuba diving and then uh my batteries were charging and it’s an amazing world to be

In but there’s no governing body you can do what you want and no one’s going to tell you off and so here I was in this situation you know cash positive but it wasn’t enough on this glorious yacht working for this amazing owner I wanted

Then to you know be put to the test I needed to be uh under the spotlight and that’s where I came back and um I I I opened my first restaurant OBU at the age of 27 and that was set up through Marco’s contacts he had these Italian

Partners uh and um I got given 25% of a restaurant I knew jack [ __ ] about a p I didn’t understand how to run a business but I could certainly cook and so it turned out I’d been given 25% of debt because this R had failed massively and

So you you learn quickly but man this tiny little beastro at the back of Beyond of Fulham Road went from this little [ __ ] hole to this two star Michelin 6 months fully booked an advanced restaurant that was just a little Powerhouse and then I started pissing people off the big wigs in the

Two and three star Mission establishments in these hotels because this tiny little restaurant with a basement kitchen was like a [ __ ] hell hole half the size of this thing but nowhere near as glamorous as this and it was it was powerful we went from zero to

Two stars in three years what was the secret the secret was the lightness I had garnered this technique of cooking OD Cuisine with very little cream very little butter but delivered something unique and nobody was doing food like that no one was no one was along that style we we we were

Uniquely individual because it was you were using beautiful uh poaching methods and then grilling them after we were arting sources and it was just it was light it was unique and uh it was it it was attractive really attractive there’s a recurring theme as well here though about um following your instincts

Following your gut you know you the football doesn’t work out and you go down and you enroll in Technical College and you sort of follow your gut there and then you go and do various culinary jobs meet Marco and your gut tells you there’s something this guy can teach me

You knew when to take a step away and go walk on a boat you knew when to come back to London to do this and you also very cleverly understood what people wanted on their plates at that point and you also have to follow your gut when

Obene ended right uh yeah I mean I wanted security for myself I was you know we couldn’t be any more successful with two star Michelin on the verge of getting three but I had no ownership and then I realized that uh I’m [ __ ] done working for other people I got to I got

To commit and I want to work for myself and then you you risk it all again T and I bought our first flat together and I had to convince her that I need the money the equity to give the bank security because there’s only a three-year lease at Laton Clair the

Resturant we were buying for Resturant Gord Ramsey and the banks told us to [ __ ] off there’s no way we got Security on that there’s no there’s no head lease there’s no validity in this thing so it doesn’t make sense I said it will do because I’ve got all this knowledge I’m

Going to get three stars no no you’re unproven so that really got me riled to come back with an answer [ __ ] it I’m going to put everything I’ve got into this business and it will work so that was the moment where I asked for patience from Tana we just had our first

Baby Megan and it was [ __ ] or bust and there’s that moment again but I’ve been there several times in my life how did you know it would work because I’ve been there several times in my life I had bounced back from adversity uh as a youngster I was faced with [ __ ] and

Embarrassment going to see uh my parents I was protecting my mom and the known to my father and so all these little caveats make this big meaningful purpose that I knew I was going to make it to walk away from that restaurant to risk your flat with your wife with your

Newborn child yeah there’s a lot on your shoulders at that point I’m interested in where the little dissenting voice the doubt the impostor syndrome the fear what what what role were they playing success needs an underlining level of Jeopardy and there’s no success anywhere on the world world that hasn’t got

Jeopardy I I strive to Perfection my life is about high performance and when I haven’t got that high performance I need to up the Jeopardy because that’s what creates and when I go into these situations and it’s all safe and easy and uh a piece of cake I’ll turn it

Upside down purposely to create a little bit more drama a little bit more Jeopardy to keep me on my toes so that’s self-perpetuated so you’ll never see that because you won’t know what level I’m turning it up or dialing it in or dialing it down but and you you know though there a

Conscious decision like I need to put something in my life here uh I want that because I don’t want it all playing sailing I think that’s the bit that I was never in doubt I had five years success at obene so rollos Road was definitely going to work I didn’t take

Things for granted I just wanted to prove the point because I had disg grumped backers that were screwing me at the time I had 25% of the success that I created that was getting sort of trodden on and I had I had nothing to show for

It so again you you turn it up dial it in and I remember going to the bank I think it was the Bank of Scotland and I said look we’re going to be operating Monday to Friday just like Lon Clair and these four guys and two women said

You’re closing Saturday Sunday is your busiest days I said no [ __ ] off Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday you’re going to be my busiest days no no but there’s no restaurant that will ever succeed unless it’s open for Saturday and Sunday lunch I’m like Sunday [ __ ] lunch who’s cooking Sunday lunch I’m

Going to be off so that’s why they literally ignored the business plan didn’t want to invest in it didn’t want to give me I think it was only asking for like half a million pound um I’d saved something like £350,000 which doesn’t seem a lot but back then it was

[ __ ] huge but Pier Koffman this amazing Frenchman and it’s very hard when French are very tough to deal with and they are incredible and so he let me pay half the money on year one and the second half of the money year two out of cash flow one of the most generous

Strokes I’ve ever seen uh by a Frenchman and so I never forget that moment no because they’re tight bastards and they are tough there that mentorship thing again that someone stepping up for you incredible and had he not done that I would have been [ __ ] I would never

Have made it so there was the Double H sort of you know pain back and not him getting access to the lease again and so there was so much Jeopardy I’ll go back to the point about I enjoyed the Jeopardy cuz I needed that level of

[ __ ] it’s it’s got to work so that propels you even more with the velocity of Jeopardy and it’s really important in our lives to keep that Jeopardy because it really does make you perform automatically and very few businesses understand the word jeopardy is that why TV was attractive

Because it was another challenge oh [ __ ] H hold on minute TV for me back then it was boiling point that was not that was not TV that was that was brutal that was a documentary you know um following the pursuit of trying to stand

On your two feet by the way I decided to watch that before this [ __ ] no Jake Jesus Christ you got too much time when you have was there anywh you didn’t let the cameras Go I mean well listen you know that was proper reality TV but I

Mean I got I mean it was ironic because amazing lady called Pat lellan who founded you know the Naked Chef and two fat ladies and Kitchen Nightmares she said look you know what what what do you want me to do with you there’s boiling point and there’s the Naked Chef we got

This S6 kid sliding down a [ __ ] banister lovely jubly throw in the tray and [ __ ] off for a game of golf come back and stuff your face and you got you running around like a [ __ ] idiot with your head cut off uh screaming at everybody I said yeah but I’m searching

For three stars said you need to stick to what you good at and that’s Perfection and so it was in interesting cuz I was so naive I had no idea what that [ __ ] microphone meant because I forgot the cameras I and people say why do you get so upset because no that’s the

Same when we’re on or off camera that’s me so don’t don’t I’m not going to play up for the sake of it I’m passionate about what I do did you need that to get the three stars or if you did sit and watch it back now would you be going I

Didn’t need to act like that to be successful like ITV called me in to a doing a week before boiling point was going out and it was on channel 4 then it was the ITV were making it ITV St was making it for Channel 4 and I sat in

This it was like the little [ __ ] mini Cinema there was like teas coffees biscuits I had a packet of fig [ __ ] this is amazing and then uh I turn around I’m in the room on my own there’s a booth with a glass wall and I could see a

Couple of execs back there so I [ __ ] sat back in this chair [ __ ] screen opened up and then [ __ ] the opening credits went I went went oh my God that’s enough thank you very much indeed I’m out of here and I yeah I I think I shat an egg

Roll I literally shat my pants I sit back there now and I look back sometimes and I was like sh no no but I I I couldn’t quite believe just how raw that thing was and I was naive I was you know half stupid but I was in pursuit of something

I’d strive for and there was nothing that was getting in my way zero and I mean zero because everything was depending on it we were in temporary uh lodgings we had a a tiny little Studio T of had stopped working then because of Megan we couldn’t afford any

Home help and so every dish I was sending I was focusing on that Jeopardy again it’s the Jeopardy that keeps me buoyant to creating a high perform performance mechanism some may say that’s a little bit too far but I didn’t know any different I’m not blaming anybody because that was all my own

Self-d doing but yeah boiling point Jesus Christ right what a moment and it led to what is now an outstanding media career with my background I find it particularly interesting I remember you bursting on the scene and as you say not just very different to Jamie Oliver right you were different to everybody

And I wonder as it started to go and producers started talking to you about formats and personalities and having an impact like how how much did you think about your TV Persona or I didn’t not at all I I I didn’t give a [ __ ] so even when you were

Going on track shows and like saying outrageous stuff or dropping the odd swear word that wasn’t I just that you weren’t thinking how could I have the most impact in this next 10 minutes on this CH I never had those preconceived ideas Jake you don’t go in there with

That I mean my first breakthrough was uh Kitchen Nightmares and I’d go into these restaurants and they’d let me off the lead at the front of the door like a [ __ ] sniffer dog I’d go in there and there’s the cameraman a sound and a producer I turned that place upside down

I took those things incredibly personal and so we’d spend 10 days in this business turning the chef around redecorating the place launching it and then I’d go back a [ __ ] month later this is for somebody else’s business that’s the point like because I understand why you care about your why

Did you care about their business but because it wasn’t a format for me it wasn’t about IP or format or success remember the first program it was 5.8 million viewers you on channel four [ __ ] Kitchen Nightmares and so then all the intrusion started then everyone wanted to know who you were what was

Your background what what makes this guy tick I’m like I’m the same on or off that there’s no and I always say there’s this seley Chef moment that we’re not and we’re a real Chef that works on TV and so these restaurants then get put back on the map they go out

Viewers flock to them these rests get so successful but then when when they don’t work uh you get blamed when the Meg successful you don’t get you don’t get any thanks and so yeah Kitchen Nightmares was an important one for me because I think it’s you got to see the

Sort of nuts and bolts of the industry on how how stupid some of these owners are and I just called it out I I literally called it out but yeah and so that that’s me by the way but then I think back to the bollins I got with

Marco or Alber GE sair Joe Roberson they taught me well they taught me really well and loads of chefs have done the TV thing no Chef has done it to the level and the sustained level that you have does that also come back to the competitive nature as well H God it’s a

Tough one isn’t it um you know that’s a really good question that’s a tough one to yeah I we we’ve just finished Season 22 of house kitchen yeah and um it’s airing next week and now you can’t do it for that long without loving and you loved cooking you

Loved I suppose I’m trying to say I run a restaurant Fox run a show and so so it’s a so you’re still the chef [ __ ] right I am because I don’t do that on a daily basis so when I get a chance to do it and run a

Restaurant I love it because it’s me it’s live the curtains are up and there’s real bookings there’s there’s there’s individuals cooking and if the lamb is raw it’s [ __ ] raw but they’re on this show for quar million dollars to lift their career but if you’ve been cooking for 10 years you can’t [ __ ]

Cook a rack a lamb what the [ __ ] are you doing in here how do you deserve a quarter of million dollars when you you you you you’re not fit for purpose and so I can’t then turn around say oh [ __ ] the camera’s watching oh can you hear me

Uh I’m going to give it to them I’m I’m going to absolutely let rip and maybe that’s just the way I am that’s the way I’m taught so I don’t want to go in there would you be so kind to pass me the raw lamb I’ll

Serve it to the [ __ ] dog for dinner I I just no your Muppet get your [ __ ] together or [ __ ] off and coming back to the double-edged sword the TV career goes amazing things are flying you’ve popped in the states which as we all know every broadcaster in the UK would

Love to do and very few manage it but then at the same time some of the reviews are tricky it hardens that had some of your restaurants in the most disappointing country experiences there was huge profit drop loss of a star at clares I’m very interested in how Gordon

Ramsey dealt with that I don’t think it’s any different to a Critic critiquing Man City winning the treble or man united finishing fourth you got to put up with that [ __ ] yeah what you do need to learn in life uh anyone in high performance is that you’re judged

By individuals that know less about food than you do and so it’s the nature of the Beast cuz I don’t give a [ __ ] never have done never will do but when it starts getting personal and they’re launching these guides on the back of your name because they want to nominate the most disappointing

Meal that’s that’s easy mud throwing have you taken Your Eye Off the Ball do you think or was it just no do do you were there to be shut down maybe but do you buy the Harden’s guide no is it still printed now I wouldn’t know I’ve

Never looked it nor would I makes two of us but this Mission star would have had we’re talking about a complete different caliber of recognition here yeah a global iconic guy that visits these restaurants Incognito so Jake I sleep at night with both eyes closed don’t you [ __ ] worry

About that and 23 years at three Michigan Stars trust me I I’m I’m a happy boy good let’s talk about happiness then yes where does where does family fit in to that happiness for you the balance yeah this industry is an absolute [ __ ] if you don’t control it

Because it’s lost too many good chefs to depression suicide it’s lost too many phenomenal individuals because they’ve been sucked in and beaten by the industry they can’t let go the minute I won my third missionary star I I learned to delegate I learned to offload and I learned to become unselfish and get

Those individuals to share the success that we were building to create thorough breads a breeding stable a Manchester United of kitchens that can go on and win and lose on a weekly basis but still be renowned as one of the best in the world and as we sit here today what do

You still feel you have to achieve what do I have to achieve that’s a tough one anything that I’ve strived for from a colonary perspective um there’s one little clink in the armor I won two stars in France uh in Bordeaux Russian G Ramsey at

Le and I love the French I love the the the sort of the the glamour of O Cuisine and I think that would really sort of confirm that final notch on my sort of deathbed the fact that we won three stars in France and we’re one star away

From that so if it happens brilliant if it doesn’t so what but that would be the final the final swan song cuz growing up on a counsil state living in 15 different shitty homes and being taught how to cook to go back to France the sort of the birthplace award Cuisine and

Win three stars but I’m so [ __ ] close you have no idea um and yeah that’s that’s the one little clink yeah so we’re not done yet I’ll be raising a glass to you in nor when I read that news um thank you I think that is really interesting to talk

About the fact that you’re chasing us St how old are you now 84 how old you feel I don’t feel 84 56 when you say chasing um it’s it’s it’s a sort of it’s the confirmation how good that is we are so close we are so close

So yeah 56 um going back to the uh importance of the delegation and not getting sucked into it you know when you’re in the orchestra yeah you’re focusing on those fine tunes and that that high octane Perfection when you’re conducting you’ve got 55 of you in the

Orchestra and you’ve got to then and that’s exactly same with the position we’re in now so coming from playing to conducting it’s a very difficult transition really difficult transition um and that’s what we’re we’re we’re we’re sort of harmonizing you know on a daily basis in a beautiful way by the

Way and how old are you when you won your first star uh 28 27 2 so this is something I just want to touch on over more than 20 years since you’re first star yeah you’re close to getting another one the one that you know as you say would give that ultimate

Confirmation yes this is the power of consistency this is the joy of longevity this is the thing that so few people manage what do you think the secret is um brutal honesty with the team we don’t sit on laurels and um we we stay in front of the competition russan Gord Ramsey today

Celebrates 25 years rans have a shelf life 72% of them Clos in the first three years we’re 20 four years next year at three star Michelin so so far so good because of the systems in place and there’s not one plate one Diner one member of the team ever taken from

Granted stay close to the action that’s what we do and stay close to the people that are most important to you I think before we wrap this up I’ve read and watched and listened to a lot of stuff and I just want to talk about Tana for a moment um there right when

You were at the center the epicenter of your seriously busy life uh still there today I know you went through a personal trauma losing a child a few years ago um I’d love you just to tell us the secret to a long-term marriage which has its highs and its lows yeah

The the amount of time you don’t see uh is hard and so we worked it out very early on in life that the time we’re going to have is make make it quality so I committed to those two days off Saturday Sunday and she knew I was exhausted and shattered but

Um you need to work in harmony you need to get that level of support you need to be on the same page so the secret of that relationship is communication and then dealing with the trauma of losing you know an amazing tiny little baby and just watching that Devastation unfold and everything

Happening you know live and you’re there you you you value each other we started off as best mates and we um we were we were young we were stupid and we we were we were skin I remember going to ask her father if I could borrow 20 grand for

The deposit for a flat that we fell in love with and I thought this is all going well lunch is good I’ll pay for lunch and I said oh by the way um Chris you know about that uh deposit you know T and I we’ve got half of what we need

The other 20 grand I’ll pay you back in a year is it okay yeah uh here’s what I’ll do uh I’ll have another lunch with you when you sell your Porsche I thought you [ __ ] but you clever [ __ ] here I am driving around in a Flash [ __ ]

Night 911 911 turbo conversion and T and I loved the car and we didn’t even have a [ __ ] house didn’t have a flat we didn’t have a roof over our heads it’s the best advice you ever gave me sell your [ __ ] Porsche I did sell

It and 10 years later I went and bought it back same car same [ __ ] car yes how did that feel it felt amazing I get embarrassed with the toys because I used to be embarrassed with my father dropping us off at school with his box all Viva there’s more [ __ ]

Rust on the inside than there was on the outside and so you start getting into sort of 10 11 12 years of age and because three of us were in the same school we asked to be dropped off way before because this this beaten up [ __ ] car was barely working

So we’ constantly go to car auctions and buy all [ __ ] cars and start a most from their alternates from their seats from this one and this thing looked like a [ __ ] scrapyard going to school so um I get embarrassed with what I’ve invested in now as a collection of

Amazing Super Cutters because it makes me feel oh God you shouldn’t so that’s why I track those cars but it’s amazing when you can’t stop thinking about the the sort of the beginning of this journey and then you sort of you don’t want to indulge but you want to enjoy

The sort of fruits of your labor and before I quick five questions that’s actually where I where I want to end you know having those cars is a real clear message for people who are maybe listen to this and maybe they are in the same place that Gordon

Ramsey was when he was 12 13 years of age there is so many toxic messages out there telling people that they can’t do certain things this idea of learned helplessness what would your message be to those young people that feel that life has dealt the cards in such a way

That they’re never going to be sitting in the chair that you’re sitting in right now yeah you’ve got every chance of success it’s never around money there’s a level of success you can get just by getting out of a tiny situation you’re in and then you climb that ladder one

Week one month one year at a time and you you pat yourself down that you’ve done well don’t look for other people to do that for you and so there is a strong chance to do well it it depends on you and it’s finding gears that you never

Felt you had in your wheelhouse and self motivation is critical and somewhere down the line we’re all going to get dealt a dysfunctional card in life just by situations and the earlier you get dealt a dysfunctional card in life the [ __ ] better because it gives you a

Much stronger hand when you come to play it beautiful quick fire questions Gordon please the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you should buy into three non-negotiable behaviors um first one is you need to be a sponge yeah the best listening device is you

Sponge the second one is take it professionally not personally really important I can’t stress how important that is getting told off is [ __ ] good really healthy but take it professionally don’t take it personally and the third one is thick skin you’re never going to please everyone stop worrying about keeping everybody happy

In the room [ __ ] it it doesn’t exist remember that your advice to a young Gordon just starting out my advice to a young Gordon Ramsey stay hungry stay hungry and stay fit if you go back to One Moment in your life where would you go and why if I had one moment to go back in life uh and why God it’s a tough [ __ ] question um poof yeah um would probably

Be um God that’s a tough one in terms of [ __ ] hell Jake one moment I’ve got 25 how long have you got come on you know the one wa one one one moment um if I had one moment in life that I could go back to it would be yeah never employ

Family we Haven even touched on that subject have we don’t need to nah the pr the Press did that for us beautifully and I mean that and and I I I can say that open honestly because we have five kids and I never want to put the owners on my team ah it’s

[ __ ] Ramsey’s daughter oh it’s Ramsey’s son five amazing kids and what I learned uh back from 2010 was you know don’t mix family and business stay independent look after the family but don’t mix it I saw Meg go to work this morning and she took her degree from Oxford Brooks

And she’s now uh in the Met police and she’s putting a stab vest on and you think God you know everything I’ve done and created it’s too easy to say hey Meg go and run one a Daddy’s restaurant there’s no [ __ ] way she wants anything to do she loves the restaurants

She’s a great chef but she’s now a police officer and that gives me such amount of Happiness to see that individuality Jack is a RW Marine Commando and training and just just where where he is now four years into the Marines Holly into the fashion and Tilly into her University her final year

We’re going to have two of the kids that have got degree we we didn’t get a level we didn’t get University wasn’t even on our agenda so you you you have to you have to understand how hard it is for those kids because it’s too easy just to

Fall onto your parents radar and pick them up and stick them in a restaurant because they can’t be [ __ ] bothered and no and that’s the strength of tana and I communicating together and feeding off each other’s strengths and supporting our weaknesses love that and the final question you’re your one final

Message really to the people that have listened to this fascinating conversation and thank you for sharing so much with us your one Golden Rule if you like to living a high performance life my one Golden Rule to living a high performance life is um never fear a

Storm learn to dance in the rain it’s got me through so much [ __ ] in my life I’m so happy when people tell me be careful it’s stormy out there I [ __ ] love it