Joe Rogan: “I Wasn’t Afraid of AI Until I Learned This”

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Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin are the co-founders of the Center for Humane Technology and the hosts of its podcast, “Your Undivided Attention.” Watch the Center’s new film “The A.I. Dilemma” on YouTube.

Clip taken from JRE #2076 w/ Aza Raskin & Tristan Harris

Host: Joe Rogan
Guests: Aza Raskin & Tristan Harris
Producer: Jamie Vernon

#jre #joerogan #ai #chatgpt

There’s something that changed in the field of AI in 2017 that everyone needs to know because I was not freaked out about AI at all at all um until this big change in 2017 it’s really important to know this because we’ve heard about AI for the longest time and you’re like yep Google

Maps still mispronounces like the street name and like Siri just doesn’t work um and this thing happened in 2017 it’s actually the exact same thing that said all right now it’s time to start translating animal language and swear underneath the hood the engine got swapped out and it was a thing called

Transformers um and the interesting thing about this new model C Transformers is the more data you pump into it and the more like computers you let it run on the more superpowers it gets but you haven’t done anything differently you just give more data and run it on more computers like it’s

Running it’s reading more of the internet and it’s just throwing more computers at the stuff that it’s read on the internet outs out sudden knows how to expl jokes you’re likeit where did that come from or now it knows how to play chess and all it’s done is predict all you’ve

Asked us to do is let me predict the next character or the next word give the Amazon example oh yeah this is interesting so this is 2017 um open AI releases a paper where they treat uh where they train this AI it’s one of these Transformers a GPT to predict the

Next character of an Amazon review pretty simple but then they’re looking inside the brain of this Ai and they discover that there’s one neuron that does best in the world sentiment analysis like understanding whether the human is feeling like good or bad about the product you’re like that’s so

Strange you ask to just to predict the next character why is it learning about how a human being is feeling and it’s strange Until you realize oh I see why is because to predict the next character really well I have to understand how the human being is feeling to know whether

Like the word is going to be like a positive word or a negative word and this wasn’t programmed this no it was emergent behavior um and it’s really interesting that like um gpt3 had been out um to for I think a couple years until a researcher thought to ask oh I

Wonder if it knows chemistry and it turned out it can do research grade chemistry at the level and sometimes better than models that were explicitly trained to do chem there was these other AI systems that were trained explicitly on chemistry and it turned out gpt3 which is just pumped with more you know

Reading more and more of the internet and just like thrown with more computers and gpus at it suddenly it knows how to do research grade chemistry so you could say how do I make VX nerve gas and suddenly that capability is in there and what’s scary about it is that we didn’t

Know that it had that capability until years after it had already been deployed to everyone and in fact there is no way to know what abilities it has another example is um you know theory of mind like the my ability to sit here and sort of like model what you’re thinking sort

Of like the basis for able to do strategic thinking um so like when you’re nodding your head right now we’re like testing like are you how well are we exp right right uh no one thought to test any of these you know Transformer based models these gpts on whether they

Could model what somebody else was thinking um and it turns out like gbd3 was not very good at it um GPD 3.5 was like at the level I don’t remember the exact details now but it’s like at the level like a four-year-old or 5-year-old and gp4 like was able to pass these sort

Of theory of Mind tests up near like a human adult um and so it’s like it’s growing really fast you’re like why is it learning how to model how other people think and then it all of a sudden makes sense if you are predicting the next word for the entirety of the

Internet then well it’s going to read every novel and for novels to work the characters have to be able to understand how all the other characters are working and what they’re thinking and what they’re uh strategizing about it has to understand how French people think and how they think differently than German

People it’s read all the internet so it’s read lots and lots of chess games so now it’s learned how to model chess and play chess it’s read all the textbooks on chemistry so it’s learned how to predict the next characters of text in a chemistry book which means it

Has to learn chemistry so you feed in all of the data of the internet and ends up having to learn a model of the world in some way because like language is sort of like a shadow of the world it’s like you imagine like casting lights

From the world and like and it creates Shadows which we talk about as language and the AI is learning to go from like that flattened language and like reconstitute like make the the model of the world and so that’s why these things the more data and the more compute the

More computers you throw at them the better and better it’s able to understand all of the world that is accessible via text and now video and image do that do that make sense yes it does make sense now what is the leap between these emergent behaviors or

These emergent abilities that AI has and artificial general intelligence and when when is it when do we know or do we know like this is the the speculation all over the Internet when um uh Sam Altman was removed as the CEO and then brought back was that they had not been

Forthcoming about the actual capabilities of whether it’s chat gbt 5 or artificial general intelligence that some large leap had occurred that’s some of the reporting about it um obviously the the board had a different statement which was about Sam the quote was I think not consistently being candid with the board

So funny way of saying lying yeah um so basically the board was accusing Sam of of lying there was this story specifically about what’s that specifically they didn’t say in I mean I think that one of the failures of the board was they didn’t communicate nearly

Enough for us to know that’s why going on which is why I think a lot of people then think well was there this big crazy jumping capabilities and that’s the thing and qar and qar went viral ironically it goes viral because the algorithms of social media pickup at

Qstar which has this Mystique to it sort of must be really powerful and this breakthrough and then that’s kind of a theory on its own so it kind of blows up but we don’t currently have any evidence and we know a lot of people you know who

Are around the companies in the area I can’t say for certain but my sense is that it the board acted based on what they communicated and that there was not a major breakthrough that led to or had anything to do with this happening but to your question though you’re asking

About what is Agi artificial general intelligence and what’s spooky about that yeah um because um so just to sort of Define it uh I just say before before you get there I as as we start talking about AGI because that’s what of course open AI is like said that they’re trying

To build their mission statement their mission statement and they’re like but we have to build an aligned AGI meaning that it like does like what human being say it should do and also like take care not to like do catastrophic things um you can’t have a deceptively aligned

Operator or building an aligned AGI and so I think it’s really critical um because we don’t know what happened with Sam and the board that the independent investigation that they that they say they’re they’re going to be doing like that they do that that they make the report public that it’s actually

Independent because like either we need to have Sam’s name cleared or there need to be consequences we need to know just what what’s going on because you you can’t have something this powerful and have a problem with who’s like the person who’s running it or something like or they’re not not honesty about

What’s what’s there