‘I live off £30 a month’: Nearly 4 million people in UK experienced ‘destitution’ last year

Destitution – it’s a word almost from another age, conjuring visions of desperate, grinding poverty. But it is a fact of life right now , for increasing numbers of people, according to new research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation thinktank.

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In a joint study with Heriot-Watt University, they found that 3.8 million people – a million of them children – experienced destitution last year defined as being unable to meet some of the most basic needs – staying dry, clean, warm and fed.

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I’ve been a bus driver I’ve uh driven Lor’s Paul is 57 and lives in Western supermare even this morning he went to the local food bank in desperation today we picked up these cans so you’ve got what baked beans baked beans soup soup tomato soup uh chopped tomato are back there as well

He’s had no money for days and what little food he’s had he’s had to russan to one meal a day have you been hungry I’ve been starving I’ve been really hungry the last three days so what did you eat yesterday uh I had fish fingers and beans what what else did you have

That’s it that’s all I had was fish fingers and beans from me evening meal what about lunch no no I just fill up on tea he lives alone and in this the flats only are room room Keeps the Lights Off as much as possible vehicle repair diplomas Adorn mostly bare walls from a

Career ended prematurely by ill health I I think I just get scared of going out and seeing other people living their lives you know I kind of walk past a p and everybody sat outside at lunchtime having a drink I don’t drink but it’s the fact that how can you afford that

That was for September Paul receives £843 a month on Universal Credit he’s due to get more on health grounds but right now he’s reeling from a recent hike in Rent Now costing £620 a month leaving him after paying bills and insurance with on average £30 for the month that’s for

Food washing because I have to use a laund to do me washing and that’s expensive no so 30 yeah I have started washing in the sink the amount you’ve got in your bank account currently 11 P that’s it today’s report by the Joseph rantry Foundation estimates the number of

People experiencing destitution in the UK has more than doubled in The Last 5 Years such severe hardship they say is no longer a rare occurrence do you want some extra milk glove oh yes please yes got loads of milk Gareth who’s 55 finds himself at the same food bank as Paul a

Welder fabricator until he says a spinal issue affecting his hands made that too difficult I need a new pair of boots yeah I’ve struggle to buy a postcard with a pair of boots on it do you know what I mean it’s like I can’t afford anything

You know sometimes I have to sometimes I have to share a can ofuna with a cat cuz we’re without skin you get to the stage where you just think what’s the point you know this is not living this is not even surviving everything I own de in

The last year since I’ve been signed off has gone really his application for disability benefits he says is proving long and arduous a common theme says today’s report do you like salami another as this food bank tells us is that many simply can’t afford essential items with the Universal Credit Income

They get sometimes we actually count it and in a session where we did 32 Parcels 30 people asked for toilet paper some people it’s the first thing that when you say you know just ask them for their voucher number and their name and the first thing they say is I need toilet

Paper more than anything else and it’s just yeah it is says today’s report a social security system now so full of holes that it falls to Charities to intervene but adds the task is too great for them it’s finding of a Sharp rise in destitute migrant households chimes with

What Bristol’s Borderlands charity has seen there’s barely a spare seat at this their weekly lunch for refugees and Asylum Seekers while the numbers queuing for a handout of fruit and veg grow ever larger thank you very much okay are people asking you for more food more

Than you can give them absolutely uh I think with the food we give every week we canot cover a week for a family and every week there is people asking for different uh items we just can’t provide is there always a big queue like this yes yes absolutely like it’s growing every

Week warnings grow around the impact destitution can have particularly on children with as many as a million in the UK affected last year so claims today’s report back in Western supermare we meet Jasmine a single parent to Henry good boy she’s in paid work a part-time cleaner and receptionist training to be

A counselor she receives Universal Credit but has debt has needed the food bank and has skipped meals she says so Henry has enough toast she is only just managing to avoid what the Joseph rantry Foundation would Define as destitution jeez yeah I now know these next few months

Are going to be really hard because at the moment I can only just afford my gas and electric and I know my gas is now about to Triple I think last last winter I think so January time it was minus 2 it was freezing like I had him wrapped

In everything and my gas cut off um I’d gone over the emergency credit how are you feeling generally at the moment in all honesty um I mean there’s there’s good days and bad days I feel I feel at the moment guilty and frustrated because it’s his birthday

In the weekend and I haven’t been able to afford to get them anything um I’ve only just covered the bills this month um my mom had to do a food shop for me last week um so I I just don’t feel good as a person I just feel like I’m not

Doing enough even though I probably actually am turning the tide on destitution said the charity behind today’s report is an urgent moral Mission the circumstances that you find yourself in would in in line with this report um characterize you as destitute yes it’s it’s not a word that I’ve ever

Used in my life never thought I’d have to use it but that’s scary the think that I I am destitute even though I’ve tried not to be well Channel 4 News did ask to speak to somebody from the government about this but no one was available earlier the work and pension secretary Mel

Stride was speaking to reporters and was asked about the report so I think we have a strong record on poverty since 20110 we have 1.7 fewer uh people in absolute poverty 400,000 of those our children but there’s always more to do and that’s why my department has been

Putting out millions of cost of living payments over the last year to 800 low-income families exactly the ones you’re describing uh on Universal Credit 6 million disabled people also support for those who are pension as well the national living wage going up by 99.7% uh in April but most importantly

Of all continuing to Bear Down inflation because that is really what has been eating up people people’s savings are making the cost of living that much more difficult well I’m joined Now by Katie Schmucker from the Joseph rry foundation and by beex Wilson who set up a charity

Here in Leeds helping to support some of those children in greatest needs thanks both of you for joining us beex Wilson I mean we saw Andy asked Paul in the piece Paul a grown man he had been in work would you say you’ve been hungry and he stands there and says I’ve been

Starving does anything in that report surprise you given what you’ve seen it’s still shocking to hear um especially towards the end sort of saying I never thought I’d have to use those words to describe myself I think that’s something we see a lot in our work families that

Just never envisaged having to access the support that we offer um but you know 2017 teaching a little boy saying that he you know just didn’t have a bed um and then not being able to to find him a bed without sort of going out and

And doing something about it um I was shocked then and I’m still shock now and I think that’s part of our mission to end bed poverty um through S not having a bed not having the basics yet many people don’t buy the idea of destitution it’s real and it’s everywhere and I

Would say from the messages that we get from schools from professionals working on the front line with children day in day out it is only on the increase I mean Katie schmuck it’s fair to say probably that the government don’t actually by your measure of of destitution they’ve told us that there

Are 1.7 million fur are people in absolute poverty we heard Mel stride l a whole raft of policies cost of living payments increasing to the National living wage he says that we’re trying to tackle inflation and that will make all of these people better off will it well

I think the the questions that he’s answering there are different ones I mean he’s talking about absolute poverty a single person in absolute poverty if they have less than 157 per week what we’re talking about here is a far more severe form of hardship destitution a

Single person who has less than 95s per week we’re talking about people who are unable to meet their most basic physical needs to be warm dry clean and fed this is the most severe form of um hardship and deprivation in our country and it has doubled in the space of five years

And so that is what we want to see the government talking about that very sharpest end of hardship and we want to know both from the government but also from the opposition parties as well what is it that they are going to do about this where is I mean the government says

It focuses on tackling inflation and it will ease some of these well burdens for people when we look at the um what’s happened over time we’ve seen between 2017 and 2019 destitution was rising in that period as well it’s risen again since so yes definitely the cost of

Living the very sharp increases to food and to energy has played a part here but actually the roots of this are much deeper and they go down they go to the very threadbear social security system that we now have the cuts and freezes to Universal Credit to Social Security that

Is a big driver of what we are seeing here I mean there seems to be a disconnect often between what the government says and what people are seeing on the ground what we see on the ground when we report on these issues I mean do you see that disconnect

Absolutely we’ve been um petitioning for a while now to have a response from central government about what what are we going to do to tackle bed poverty we know it’s an issue affecting hundreds of thousands of children their one shot at education is being limited their attempt

To get out of poverty through education is being limited through not having a bed not turning up to school with their basic needs met ready to learn so what what are we going to do to tackle that we believe that there’s a a a a thirst

Out there from the the bed industry to do something and to to to help but that needs to be coordinated from the top I mean your report uh today talks about how you know Social Security needs to be more generous you know that’s an incredibly controversial political idea

That neither party may be looking at I don’t think it is that controversial an idea when we talk to the public when we do opinion polling when we go out and speak to people what we find is that people very much support the idea that our social security system should be

There for us when we fall on Hard Times any life can come at you fast sometimes any one of us can lose our jobs can be sick get sick need to care for a disabled family member you know things happen in life and when they do social

Security should be there to help us get back on our feet and move on with our lives and our system is currently failing to I mean the government’s stated aim of Universal Credit is that it will provide a basic in income for people which covers a range of needs to

Both of you either of you think that is true no I mean seven and 10 people who are experiencing destitution were in receipt of Social Security payments so Universal Credit or other benefits it’s clearly not actually helping people to meet their needs and that’s why we’ve been arguing for an Essentials guarantee

To be built into Universal Credit so that is always enough for people to meet life’s Basic Essentials but do you think that you know it’s that idea of what is enough and that the government with the benefit system may have an idea of what is enough but this destitution report

Suggests that’s not right well it’s never our social security system the basic rate of Social Security of Universal Credit is £85 per week to cover food utility bills clothes travel all sorts of things that it’s clearly not enough and it has never never actually been related to a basket a

Costed basket of Essentials it’s just a sort of historical accident and a series of decisions about how to operate it so it’s completely disconnected from the realities of what it costs to meet your meet your needs and through my experience as a deput head teacher of a large primary school and also working

With with professionals working in schools across the country um through zarak parents are not choosing for their children to not have a bed they are not choosing for the chaos that is in their house when there can be no bedtime routine where they are worrying about

How to put food on the table where they are they are living in houses without carpets without um curtains and not knowing when they’re going to be able to wash their clothes next or you know have their be top up for electricity and and their utility bills paid they’re not

Choosing to live with that that pressure that Str and that chaos that’s what they find themselves in it’s such an important point though because the the choice here lies with government government can choose to do going out to end it there and I’m really sorry there’s so much more to talk about but

Thank you both of you for coming in