Villa Albertine presents the professional symposium Reciprocities: Making and Supporting Dance between France and the United States livestreaming on the global, commons-based, peer produced HowlRound TV network Thursday 26 October and Friday 27 October 2023.
How do we sustain a practice of global exchange in dance at a time of climate and funding crisis; a time marked by social inequities and cultural upheavals? What are the privileges and abundances, the tools and creative resources that can be shared and imagined in common? Drawing on a rich tradition of choreographic exchange and collaboration, the symposium will gather dance artists, curators, scholars, and funders working on both sides of the Atlantic to reflect upon and speculate on the models and approaches that can best guide future partnerships and cooperative action.
This two-day event features artists dialogues as well as roundtables with experts and one-on-one artists’ dialogues on topics such as choreographing residencies, pedagogy as performance, acts of transmission, and curatorial ecologies.
Curated by Noémie Solomon with the support of an Advisory Committee and the Albertine’s team.
The Professional Symposium is organized as part of the Albertine Dance Season: a year-long celebration of the art of dance from inception to performance.
Friday 27 October 2023
Roundtable IV: Curatorial Ecologies
2:15 p.m. EDT (New York, UTC -4) / 20:15 CEST (Paris, UTC +2)
What are the roles and responsibilities of dance curators today in regard to various artists, works, collectivities? How can we account for stark social inequalities, as well as the ecological challenges we face while continuing to nurture exchanges locally and internationally?
Panelists:
Tanguy Accart, Director of Development and Artistic Projects, Biennale de la Danse + Maison de la Danse, Lyon; Philip Bither, Senior Curator, Performing Arts, Walker Arts Center, Minneapolis; Rachid Ouramdane, Choreographer and Director, Chaillot-Théâtre National de la Danse, Paris; Janet Wong, Associate Artistic Director, New York Live Arts.
Moderated by Angela Mattox, Senior Manager of Awardee Engagement, Creative Capital, New York (ex-curator, PICA)
Respondent: Ali Rosa Salas, VP of Visual and Performing Arts, Abrons Arts Center, New York.
Invite everyone to come back for our very last session of this two-day symposium. So, the last session is titled Curatorial Ecologies. And I’m very grateful for you three, Tanguy Accart, Janet Wong, Rachid Ouramdane, and Angela Mattox, who will facilitate the panel to join us. I just wanna say also that Philip Bither,
Who was supposed to be with us today, also had to cancel. So, today was a, yes, an event marked by, yes, many. Yes, we were talking about that earlier. So, it is part of the room in many ways. Philip is okay. But yes, had to stay in Minneapolis, in Chicago.
So, he’s sending his warmest thoughts, is with us in spirit. And yes, so, I’ll just pass it on to Angela. Thank you. Thank you, Noemie, And thank you Villa Albertine for hosting this. We’re at our final conversation. I don’t know how you are feeling. It’s been incredibly rich and complex. And I’m just trying to take it all in and absorb. And I think, I really want to acknowledge the prompt by Noemie and Villa Albertine to be in the moment, you know? So, we’ve all taken a lot of notes.
We think deeply about this work. We are embedded in these practices, but I’m processing in this moment too of everything that was shared. And I really want to thank everyone’s candor and for this final panel, bringing in that level of urgency that I think that has been a thread,
Throughout the last two days. And maybe, continue on with themes of hope, and themes of aspiration, and themes of the future. So, again, we’re at Curatorial Ecologies. Some of the questions that were posed initially were: what is the role of the dance curator in this cultural moment?
And take into account the stark social inequalities in these political and economic times. We were asked to think about our accountability to artists, our accountability to audiences locally and globally. We’re thinking about the responsibility of the presenting field, considering these ecological challenges we face, while we can continue to nurture exchanges,
Locally and globally. Those were the initial prompts and there’s so many more prompts that have arisen in the last couple hours. Like, where do we go panel, you know? We are just sitting here talking like, “Okay, we could take this a lot of directions.” So, I ask all of you in the room as well, this is our final chance to chat. So, these wonderful panelists have been asked to prepare a few moments of insights and introductions.
We’ll have a bit of a chat. And then, I think, we might open it up a little bit earlier, also with our respondent Ali Rosa-Salas as well. Start thinking about your questions. ‘Cause, I think, again, we want to maybe have this final panel, maybe linked to future conversations
Where we can find each other and continue on. The additional questions I posed to these wonderful colleagues also were, “Why do we do this work?” And I mean, it really like, yeah, like with humor, but also, earlier today our humanity was really called to the room, you know, themes of life and loss.
And I add to that love, love, life, and loss. Why do we do the work? I do it ’cause I love it (chuckles) and the care around it, and the relational aspect, the relationships, the people. What is the imperative? What’s at stake if we don’t continue on? We’re talking about global exchange.
What’s at stake if it goes away? What’s at stake for us? We all might view that differently. And again, going back to the aspirations, where can we go? What are the aspirations around the work? Dorothée mentioned earlier, how do we reduce the distance between us? That stuck with me.
Just now, the panel was, how do we face these complexities? How do we adapt the models? I want to turn it over to our panelists. And also, just respect that in the last panel we started to talk about, again, infrastructure and institutions. We’re gonna talk about institutions.
This is maybe the dialogue to talk about what we’re doing within the institutions. And I just wanna really honor and thank these three amazing individuals that I’m sitting with, I’ve known for some time. And to say we are all three dimensional, that came up earlier today.
We are three dimensional human beings doing the work within a particular context. Where are you at? Give us some insights about what you’re doing and where we can go. So, to start us off, Janet Wong, thank you so much for kicking the dialogue off today. You are associate artistic director
At New York Live Arts and Bill T. Jones Arnie Zane Dance Company. Can you just share a bit more about your perspective and background, and of the various prompts that I gave, and have come up in the last couple days? What’s on your mind? Well… I’m a little bit nervous now, (laughs)
You know, so many thoughts in my mind, but I’m supposed to talk about myself first and how I came to sit in this position of privilege in a tiny little organization, but with a big, you know, heart. (chuckles) I want to say big dick, (all laugh) but big heart. But there’s David Thompson.
Okay, so, I was a dancer, I was a ballet dancer, you know? And I’ve been working with the Bill T. Jones Arnie Zane Company since 1996. So, I’m quite old. And just thinking about this morning, archives, I feel like I’m a walking archive of everything. And it’s constantly evolving, constantly evolving.
And I lean on that, that we are constantly evolving. Even the organization, can an organization be in perpetual evolution? So, I became the rehearsal director of Bill T. Jones Arnie Zane Company. We took the word dance out of the company, just to say we can do anything inside of a performance space, sorry.
And then, I became the associate artistic director in 2006. And then, in 2011, ’12 season, New York Live Arts was born out of the merger between the Bill T. Jones Arnie Zane Company and this historical, very important organization called Dance Theater Workshop, which was formed in 1965,
Which I’m sure most of you know of. And at that time, we were quite separate, the company and New York Live Arts. And then, in 2016, ’17 season, I became also the associate artistic director of New York Live Arts. And I co-curate the programming at New York Live Arts
With Bill T. Jones with literally no experience. So, if I had applied for the job, I would not have gotten it, for sure. (attendees laugh) So, I’m still learning. (laughs) Judy remembers when I called her, “Please, can I have some information?” My learning still continues, right? It’s ongoing, ongoing. That’s confuses that.
Something like that to, you’re always learning, always learning. And so, we are a very small organization, like I said, with a big whatever, and we present movement-based, body-based performance work. Presentations are usually through partnerships. And most of the work that we present is actually through our residency commissioning programs.
And we work with artists, national, United States artists, and also some international artists. And we are hoping to do more of that. And of course, oftentimes, it’s with the help of Villa Albertine and partnerships with other organizations that we can do that. And so, today, like, what can I talk about?
There’s so many prompts. And I thought, maybe, I can bring it back to the idea of international exchange, and the fact that I’m sitting here in this room, French Villa Albertine, and that is part of the dance season, a year long dance season. And concurrently, there is the Dance Reflections,
Van Cleef & Arpels Festival that’s citywide running from, it started last week and it’s gonna go through December. The bulk of it is these two weeks. And I’m thinking, where are the Americans? Where is the American equivalent to this? Why are we not putting out? Where?
I mean, Van Cleef & Arpels, where’s Tiffany’s, (all laugh) I’ve been saying, right? And so, I’m gonna talk about a few my obsessions. One of them is this is, there is a lack of visibility. I’m not even gonna talk about the local problems. I’m just gonna talk about the lack of visibility
And opportunities for American artists at this moment. And this is totally not academic research. So, I mean, just scouring the recent festivals in the summer, like, Montpellier, Avignon, Lyon, that’s not in the summer, Festival de Marseille almost zero Americans, right? And (chuckles) when you look at,
If they’re not living in Europe in particular, like, Festival d’Automne right now, there is, of course, Trajal Harrell who’s the portrait, spans the whole fall. And then, there is Trisha Brown Company, I think, because of her roots, the company’s roots in France, but also Noe Soulier making her work for the company.
And then, there’s Faye Driscoll, and all of you in Paris, please go and see that work, it’s the third part of a trilogy, “Thank You For Coming: Space”. And it’s in end of November, I think. So, I’m thinking, what is this lack? Where are the Americans?
And in my capacity at New York Live Arts, we try to create a platform for the artists to share their work, especially during the January conferences, APAP, and what’s the other one? ISPA, the international version of it. So, we do this thing called live artery, where the whole building is taken over.
We have studio showings, we do fully produced performances in the theater and even started a salon in the lobby. So, the whole space is taken over. And so, please come back in January. That’s the chance to see American artists and also international artists. And we are limited by, you know, fiscal space.
We have a very small space and also time, because it’s limited, and also funding. But this next one, we’re gonna expand outside of a wall and you know, partner with organizations to create more opportunities. And you know, the way that other countries support their cultural exports, I can only be so jealous.
Like, for example, the French, of course, and also Canadians, the Germans, the Koreans, the Taiwanese, the Finnish, the, (gasps) oh, my God. If you’ve been to Cinars, I was invited for the first time to Cinars last year, last year, and which is a Canadian APAP. And there were almost no American artists present
Because you need the subsidy from your country to be there. There were maybe two or three booths from Americans. There’s a whole exhibition hall there. But then there is the Scandinavians, that whole region, (all laugh) you know what I’m saying? They came together and they supported their artists.
That was a German showcase that was like, “Damn.” Right? And people were asking me, people who run big festivals, dance festivals, they say, “What is happening in the United States?” So, I tried to invite the chairman of the NEA, (laughs) the National Endowment for the Arts, I just cold emailed her,
Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson and Michael Orloff, who’s in charge of international partnership, said, “Come to the symposium, see what’s happening. You know, see what is not happening.” And they have their annual arts council, right? Today, actually, so, they cannot be here. But gonna send them a report.
I also invited people from the Mellon Foundation, and of course, Emil is part of that arts council. So, we’re also gonna report to them. I like to cold email people. And sometimes you get a response, right? (laughs) Sometimes you get a response. So, you know, I think the Americans should really step up. Yes. Because cultural exchange is more important than ever. Look at this moment of the lack of diplomacy. Look at this moment of the lack of exchange.
We are sitting here watching this thing unfold in Gaza. Anyway, so, okay, I’ve probably used up all my time, but can I just jump in? I’ll use some of Philip’s time. So, my second obsession is about the environment. Talking about exchange, right? And I mean, do we stop this international exchange? I don’t think that’s a way to go. I know there artists that say, “Okay, I’m gonna stop making work then I’m gonna find another way. I’m gonna just send concepts across the pond
And then they can make it up.” That’s great. That’s another way. But not everyone can do it. There’s something about face-to-face. Look at all of us here today. Look at what what we talk about during lunch. So, that’s important. So, that’s my obsession. I think the United States, again, sorry,
I’m gonna be kicked out of this country, I’m an immigrant. The United States is lagging behind Europe. You know, I started with my colleagues, a few of my colleagues at New York Live Arts, a Green Initiative. And we’re like doing little things here and there.
And you know, changing all of the things we use cups. I personally take those things to the composting and then, I dump them into the bin myself. (laughs) And oh, Gisele Vienne’s set, if you’ve seen Gisele Vienne’s piece, the walls that were built at FTA Montreal, and then they were shipped to Chatham,
And then they were cut down in size a little bit more for New York Live Arts. So, they were gonna go into the trash, it’s wraparound walls and white carpeting. So, I said, “No way, I’m the head of the Green Initiative.” So, I just cold emailed a bunch of theaters in New York.
And guess what? The next day, NYU Theater department said, “We’ll take it all.” (attendees cheer) So, yes, right? So, little things… What did you say just now? If you don’t know that it’s impossible, (laughs) just go ahead and do it. (laughs) Yeah. So, we all had to do our thing.
I know we live in a place where we can turn on the air conditioner, but somebody else is dying in the global South, not even the global South, here, right? Look at all the fires and the floods that’ve been happening. And then, my final last obsession, I have a lot of obsessions,
But my final obsession is, not even aspirational, I don’t know where to go with that, Lauren said it so well, I just want to say it because I have a mic right now that, I oscillate between forgetting about what’s going on in Gaza and suddenly, remembering it,
And my body goes into this traumatic, I don’t know what. And you know, I wrote to the White House four times, and the last one was all caps. Ceasefire, ceasefire, ceasefire! It’s going to the trash. It’s probably just for my own sanity that I’m writing that, but I’m just misquoting Judith Butler saying,
(sighs) something about precarity, the lives of, you know, “What lives are worth saving? And whose death is worth are worth mourning? So, okay, I’m done. I’m sorry. (attendees cheer) Thank you, Janet. Thank you, Janet, so much. I hear you on all of those, and dealing with issues and ideas in real time
In multiple places. And it goes back to what we’re talking about today, around what’s happening here, what’s happening afar, and what’s in the body around it. Thank you for sharing that. Tanguy Accart, I’m gonna turn things over to you. Is your mic working? No. No. Maybe. Sweet, thank you. Hello. Yes. Hello.
Tanguy, welcome. It’s great to have you. Thank you. Thank you for your word and it’s inspiring, and this energy you have to put in. I am Tanguy Accart. And I’m the Deputy Director of Maison de la Danse and Director of Development of Maison de la Danse.
It’s my first trip overseas since 21. Yeah, 21. I spent four years in Chicago. I had the pleasure to live in that extraordinary city. I felt in love with the city and I had the position of cultural attache, so I know a bit about the United States,
Especially the Midwest that no one from France knows. So, that was an exciting experience for me to meet this extraordinary territory. And I think, it’s interesting because it gives you another story of the United States, also. So, maybe, I have later some time to tell about some experiences
And thoughts through my work in Chicago. But for now, I will be more serious. And I took some notes that I wrote during the night I would say. So, I’ve been working at La Maison de la Danse and La Biennale de la Danse since ’21, so it’s recent.
And I arrived with Tiago Guedes, the new director of both institutions. Maison de la Danse and Biennale de la Danse are two very distinct cultural organizations, but they have that specificity to have a common direction. And when Tiago applied, we had to present a project for the two organizations thinking the complementarity,
The common spaces between them in order to, I like a kind of unique model for dance, for creation, for artists, and for the audience in Lyon and abroad. The principle missions of both institutions to be fast is to promote access for all true culture and especially, dance.
And to support and make visible the work of artists. More specifically, Biennale de la Danse programs, a large diversity of dances and aesthetics from local to international. We do ballet, neo-classic, contemporary, very established or emerging artists, traditional of German dance, but also cabaret or circus. We have a theater with 1,100 seats
And one studio of 100 seats. And Biennale de la Danse, whose last edition just took place last September, is more about inviting a local audience, but also professional, because it’s also a professional platform, to explore the actuality of dance at the international level. There was about 15 countries presented
Through the performances that invited the last edition. And is much more involved in the new forms of creation, seeing that about 40% of our program were creations, and French premieres, this year. At Maison de la Danse, we program about 50 shows during the season for about 140 representations,
Which make about more than 100,000 tickets and spectators. At la Biennale, we presented last September 48 shows in Lyon, the Lyon Metropolite, but also in the region in 50 different venues. And we have a total about 50,000 tickets. I mentioned all that because I think it’s important also to know about practical question.
And I wanted to mention the number of tickets because contrary to received ideas, and assumptions that I’ve heard sometimes from the US side, box office is a very important and crucial thing in France too. And it’s a lot of work and communication and work of outreach to get people
And potential audience into our theater. So, as an example, the financial equilibrium at Maison de la Danse is based on 60% of own resources and 50% from box office. And we need also to raise money. And in terms of fundraising, I would say that if, Maison de la Danse plus Biennale,
We have to raise about 1.5 million euros of private funds to implement the project that we want to develop. Saying that we receive of course a lot of support from our public partners, national, local, not only financial, but I can say that we have with most of them
A pretty constant and constructive dialogue. Maison and Biennale have nine associated artists, three local, three national, and three international. We have the mission to support the development of artists and creation through co-productions, different kind of mentoring, especially for the local artists, and a residency program. We’re talking yesterday about residencies.
And I think that we will increase the number of places for residency in France because in three years we’ll have a new space very next to the Maison de la Danse named Les Ateliers de la Danse, with a big creation theater of 400 seats, a studio with a 120 seats.
Both totally equipped to finalize and create work, a big studio for research and workshop, and an open air space on the rooftop to work on form of public space. So, it’ll transform totally our mission and especially, how we can have the artist all the time with us,
And to dialogue with the community, the people, the artists, et cetera, et cetera. And we want of course to design that space for local, national, but also international artists. We develop also a lot of outreach in the community program. Yesterday, Elsa, when we were talking about the residency,
It was difficult to find the exact word when we talk about mediation, actions culturelles, education, artistic, I think I talked with Will yesterday and he said, “Yeah, it’s with the outreach program and community engagement program.” So, and we do it a lot. And it’s really, really part of our mission like
Rachid’s doing at and his team and many, many other theaters. I would say that in this global environment, we work in constant dialogue between local and international, from local to international, from international to local. And in same way, the different missions and activities that we’re doing are very, very connected
To different layers of collaboration. I would even say that our practices are immersed in collaboration, first at the local level. The question of collaborating, which other theaters, with artists, with agencies, with control of different cultural organization is not, yeah, I think it’s not a possibility, it’s a necessity.
Even an injunction from our public partners, founders, each at its own level of responsibility of competence, which responds to questions and issues that we all need to resolve if we want to work better and have a better future for art, and culture in France, in ecological, economic, and also social level.
So, we’ve been asked where, of course, on the ecological issues. And it’s more and more important like to calculate our carbon footprint looking, for instance at issues of mobility, mobility of artists, but mainly pre-mobility of the audience, how do they come to our theater, of professionals? We organize a lot…
We are part of a lot of a working groups to think together how to decarbonize culture in France at the level of the City, of the Metropole. We work a lot to organize what we call green tours, which means organize rational tour of performance in order to reduce the travel.
We will today never invite international projects without having at least three, maybe four partners in France. We work a lot with Chaillot discussing constantly about our interest in order to agree on the companies and the work that we’d like to invite. For the performing arts sector.
I think it’s interesting also to say few words about the ministry of culture. They put recently a kind of a priority in their agenda that they call (speaks in foreign language) producing better and touring or disseminating better. You must hear: limiting other productions and encouraging touring
To extend the life of performances and creations. Again, Will, yesterday, was pointing that he had to wait until 25, I think, to find the fifth venue of his last creation. I don’t know if you are here, Will. Maybe he left. Yes, it’s what you say, right? Something like that. You have to wait for two years to have the chance to do… Okay, so, we have the… Yeah, it’s about the same question and if we take a look on the numbers in France, I think, it’s also a very bad situation. There is a lot of companies much more than here.
But we really have the problem of the average of number of representation per work. I don’t remember, but it’s very, very bad, two, maybe, or three, something like that. So, the ministry of culture really asked us to work more actively, much more actively of that crucial question.
It’s really about the future of dance and how we can preserve, it’s also about ecological practice, I mean, to produce a piece to have just three representations, it’s totally a problem today. So, and of course, that means we are constantly working, and calling, and discussing with colleagues from France,
From the regions, from the city to get more chance for the artists to tour as much as they can. It works pretty well. We have the chance to have, of course, as some of you know, a very structured and strong ecosystem, but it needs a lot of work
Because we are very vastly focused on our own structures, organization, work. And so, I think, we need to stay alive to oblige ourself, to always being in connection and in relation with other colleagues. We are also working in term of fostering exchange, increase the visibility of artworks to the professional sectors,
And facilitate the dialogue between artists and presenters. This is why we organize during the Biennale, the focus danse. Some of you were there this year at this platform that we organize in partnership, still about partnership and in collaboration with Onda, the Institut francais, and also in close relation with the different cultural services
Of the French embassies in the world. And we have this year 300 presenters from many country, I don’t remember. But it’s just to say the importance of this moment also to engage collaboration in New York City how many project were born during January, during APAP in international collaboration,
I’m sure there were a lot. And I was happy to read about the rebirth of the Under The Radar, not only for under other radar, but I know that that kind of festival can give an impulse to bring people from abroad and engage dialogue. And I’m not sure,
I don’t know what it was from since the end of COVID to now, but I know it was pretty bad in New York. So, I really hope that that kind of encounter will be very positive for all of you and all of us, actually. Collaboration was pretty strong also at the European level,
And we have also the chance to develop a cooperation project thanks to the European Union, and through the Creative Europe program to encourage cooperation with central questions of innovation, solidarity, equity. We are part of few European program. And I have to say that it’s an extraordinary way to think together,
And to have a moment and time to reflect about our practices from Serbia to France, from Norway to Portugal. Thinking now about extra European exchanges. The question asks, in this panel, resonates a lot with another meeting that we organized during the Biennale, which title was “Building together what form of cultural cooperation
To cope with social change.” So, we do a lot of meetings like that. And I think it’s important, but it’s not the only one. And this title has be transformed by the sentence, a very beautiful sentence from a group of artists and cultural workers that I read in the book named “Reshape.”
Name of a European project that aimed to imagine new ways of transnational exchange. And the name of this was building a dream of the generosity, solidarity shelter, rethinking transnational collaboration in a changing world. So, this meeting was led by my dear friend Milica Ilic. She’s an expert on international cultural cooperation.
And this meeting started with this observation. I think it’s good to recycle also meetings in order to have, I mean, it was very interesting. And so, she started by observing a contradiction, which is in one hand that the practices in the art world are immersed in a collaboration defined by collaboration.
International exchange are pretty much very deeply presenting in our sector, sorry. But in the other hand, collaborations are deeply influenced by neoliberal market logic and the majority of the models of the exchange in art is still fostering other production, extraction, power relation. Highlighting also that the question of visibility,
Access to mobility, to resources is dependent also on where the artists are based. So, the main question where we discuss a lot about how to collaborate across different context considering the difference and how the context, the history, culture, social realities can define our practice as an impact in our practice.
And also, to highlight the specificity, also the inequality in working conditions. So, from this, there was a lot of keyword that appeared to engage international exchange, and the three most important words was care, solidarity, and context. And I will have that, this question of context is very important
If you want to work on collaboration and artistic exchange. As a creators and cultural workers, I think, this is our responsibility to understand and dig into the context in which artists are working and develop their practice, especially if you want reciprocities. When we wrote the project for Biennale de la Danse,
We discussed a lot about how to engage ourself at the global and extra European level, considering that the Biennale is an international event. And as a response, we created a project named the Forum, a space for gathering at international level and focusing on the practice, and not necessarily the project.
It was also the idea to engage a relation of trust with curators from different parts of the world with whom we share the same values. And on ecological aspects to know about the states of world’s creation without having necessarily to travel constantly. So, this program is co-created with five non-European curators
From five different regions of the world. The United States. And we are very honored, and happy, and proud to have as the first curator, Angela Mattox. Here, present. (attendees applaud) So, we had a lot of Zoom exchanges this last month. So, there are: United States, Taiwan,
A curator from Australia, from Brazil, and from Mozambique. And each curator, we asked to each curator to initiate and to accompany a local artistic project and gathering with five artists from their respective geography. So, we are not at the point we selected the artist and it’s still very in process.
And the following regular online, and face-to-face meeting in the five continents, and also a work of documentation. The results and the artistic projects resulting from this forum will be presented during the Biennale 2025. So, it’s a long-term process. And I wanted to highlight this example because I think it’s important for organizations
That are deeply rooted in international exchanges to experiment a new way of cooperation. And maybe, to ask this question of how we want to be engaged in the global society? Especially, from our very privileged position. To conclude from now about the question of responsibility of creator,
I take also some small time of Philip. Our main responsibility, I think, is really to create a positive environment to engage a dialogue between artists, between artists and professionals, between artists and the audience, between artists themselves. And I think this question of creating a positive environment,
It’s the main question and the most important thing to me. And I finished with this quote from Qudus Onikeku; he was invited during this meeting that I mentioned in Lyon. And he said something, I think is very relevant and important, about international exchange and reciprocities,
He say about inviting projects and artists from abroad that, “It’s not about giving opportunity but creating a space where community opportunities can happen.” And I really like this distinction about not to extract the project, to give the opportunity to that project to be presented abroad in another context,
Like, a gift that you would give to an artist, but create a context where just things can happen. And I think it’s beautiful. ANGELA: That was beautiful. Thank you, Tanguy. Sorry, Where you ended on that reminded me of, you know, yesterday, we’re talking about, it came up in the room artists’ partnership with institutions. I think it was in the pedagogical conversation, but I think that is very much as part of this panel too.
Artists and partnership, how we’re meeting the artists. One thing, Tanguy, really, before I turn things over to Rachid, you mentioned the keywords that were coming up in your work, was it care, context and? And solidarity, of course. And solidarity. Perhaps we can expand upon that once we open it all the way
To the full discussion. Rachid Ouramdane, we are going to continue, I think, with you, you are starting to already foreground, I think so many really poignant approaches with your new role at Chaillot. I wonder if you can continue to dive into the ways that you talked about play,
You talked about being in service too, and you started to talk about hospitality. I know you prepared some notes, but I’m looking forward to hearing a continuation of some of those thematics. So, Rachid, floor is yours. Thank you. I suppose I have no Philip’s time left. (all laugh)
And yeah, I even wondering if I still have some time. No, yeah, of course, I’ve said things before, I might repeat myself a little bit, but I will try to get some issue that start to rise up. But yeah, just a little bit to go back to Chaillot, a bit of a history.
And maybe, to understand what I said before, and why this position of this theater that when you come to Chaillot you don’t come with your project, you don’t come as a person. You are facing 100 years of democratization of art and culture. This institution had been built for a world here
For a moment where people believed that scientific knowledge and artistic knowledge could be the base for common culture. That from the beginning, the purpose of that structure was to gather the city, was to gather different fields of knowledge, different actions. And after very important figures like Jean Vilar,
Firmin Gemier, the other director, really made revolution. You know, Jean Vilar create what we call in French, (Rachid speaks in French) national popular theater. And after, he create the Avignon Festival and this heritage of, at that time popular, I think the world today would be inclusion, to democratize.
Because what the popular practices in the ’20s are different from the ’60s, from the ’80s, because since then we received all those multicultural knowledge, we are dealing with genders issues. We have integrated the revolution of the digital world, then what make popular and what federate is totally different today than before.
But just to say that because leading Chaillot means to try to federate all those fields and to bring culture where culture is not. The idea is not to make people come to culture, it’s to bring culture where there is no culture. Sorry, there is always culture everywhere.
Where there is no certain art practices or where art practices and culture are damaged. And I want to take a precaution because, often, that could give the a kind of vertical vision of culture, which was, and I’m totally agree with you Tanguy when you say many theaters are doing,
What is the English word? Education. (panelists speak faintly) outreach et cetera. But I think that what is important, again, referring to what I said before, it’s to not be vertical, to make emerge everything which had been invisibilized, and to not have a messianic approach of culture life. I bring you the light.
And then, that’s it. I just wanted to precise that because yeah, when you think of the programmation in Chaillot, that’s through this filter. And well, I said thanks already, an artwork on the scale of the city, et cetera. But that’s this heritage I was mentioning before. To go straight to international collaboration
Beyond the regular, what I call the regular programmation, which is to invite project, international project, how you say it? Now, with this duty, we have to make it in collaboration to not make fly people from all over the world alone know we have to optimize economically and ecologically.
And to optimize economically, it is an ecological act, then, well, we worked through networks, but then there is these regular activities. But what I also try to share, and maybe to hear a bit what you said about giving a space at the end of your presentation, Tanguy.
Every month there is an invitation to a territory, and we call that Chaillot Experience. We invite projects, choreography or, those kinds of project. But during those Chaillot Experiences, which is a kind of mini festival, mini focus, we try to share the scene, an ecosystem, a total environment.
Then, the next one will be about Algeria. Then, we are going to have Algerian choreographers, but also press drawers, concert, debate, programmation of films, documentary, sharing practices, (murmurs) immaterial UNESCO Patrimonial, Immaterial Patrimonial from the humanity project with kind of music practices. Then, what we try to… And a lot of workshop,
A lot of initiative from associations from Algeria or from the immigration, Algerian immigration. And we try to have those moment of popular sharing practices. And because, I think, it’s really important to not only show an art piece, but to try to bring a fragment of this ecosystem, a fragment of the environment
Where all these pieces are done. Then, we’re going to have one this season about Rwanda. I always think that – she’s gone – Dorothée, she’s as a associated artist will be co-curating the thing. But that’s it. We work with local artists from Rwanda, but also all the collaborations
That exist already between the country. And that’s a way to still maintain an international connection. And every time when we are doing that, the partners are different because sometime you have some countries who have a cultural institute who could be a partner or where there is a culture of fundraising, sometime nothing.
Every time we have to invent a new economical model to make that possible. But by the fact how I said before, you work with different partners, you find different partners from different sectors in the countries. And Algeria, we’re going to, sorry, we’re going to have one about the transatlantic relation
With Villa Albertine in December. But yeah, that’s an approach, and which I think it’s, well, many of you are professionally traveling. You know how it looks like countries when we don’t have those international cooperations, I suppose. I mean, I worked in Vietnam, I worked in Russia, I mean, you know, how sometime
Things could be much more tense when there is this absence of intercultural practices. And that’s why we all have to think how to reduce our carbon footprint, et cetera, if there is many diverse approaches. But I think that we should never consider the cultural object as a manufactured object.
The value of a cultural object traveling is not the new Nike shoes. And it’s not a way to say, “Oh, we are artists.” We should not consider all those ecological issue, we are considering it in a transition project, but we should assume that maybe we still have to make travel
Cultural object because they create a certain tolerance all over the world, a certain knowledge all over the world. And that’s it. Just to refill to the carbon print the same way we make travel cars et cetera. Sorry, it’s naive. It’s to have an economical approach and not to political approach.
And that’s, maybe, where we will end up. I will go to that because United States have a lot of money. It’s probably one of the countries. The economy of the United States is one of the stronger one. And often, we hear that there is a problem in the country
To support art comparing countries who have not so strong economical. But I would go that to the end. (attendees laugh faintly) And then, that’s it. And also, what we try to do, again, just to give an example of how to say nourished cooperation, we developed this program of artist holiday camp
Because we have to focus on supporting the artists, but I think that if we don’t create citizen who have a taste for art or taste for cultural practices, then it’s a kind of a empty basket every time. Like, because we have to federate the strengths for creation
But to also construct the people that will appreciate and enjoy the creation. Then, we have different program like those holiday camp inspired by what Alvin Foundation have done during many years. Then, during two weeks, the kids, especially vulnerable kids that we’re working with have dance movement practices.
We try to also mix sports and dance practices because we know the potential that sports have to federate the youths. And they just realized that through sport they can start to reach other, yeah, they can approach arts. Dance is everywhere, dance is in fashion, dance is in sport,
Dance is in cinema, dance is on the social network, dance is on the, I need my list in English, wellbeing, cinema, research, in the music industry. And all those domains are doors to reach dance, but not only in a mainstream culture. And that’s after the work we have to do.
But I would totally assume to use sometimes those very popular keys to introduce dance. I have an associate artist, he’s a rap-singer. You can see his movie in Netflix. He’s a really nice and interesting person, really well-known, Kery James in France. And the way he has to federate people when he’s doing something,
He open the door to audience that you never see in our institutions. Because often, I’m going to theater and say, “Yeah, you see! We did a show. And we made come like 20 people from the neighborhood. And they are… Yeah, but it’s like if it’s complex
And we always have to be in a very small scale. It is a way, it is important. But I also do believe that we have to always try to use the tool that allow us to act in a very wide scale. Often, no, I… Yeah, I like because sometimes
People from different queer community, it’s not, but I like to remember that when David Bowie did Ziggy Starters, that was a world phenomenon. It was not only something for, that’s people reduced to my community minority. Then, that’s it. I think it’s always interesting to try to think in terms of scale,
And which domain can open the door to a wide art practice. Neighborhood. Yeah, too a little bit provocative. I think, that we are facing the market world, how it works so far, I really think that we are facing a wall co-producing, and just presenting the show.
I think that the end of this model. I’m really, really ready to speak about it, but it’s what’s going on in France at the moment. When an artist have no job, as a dancer, the only way he has to go on is to create his own company.
And, and, and, and that’s saturate the network, and the infrastructure are not enough. And if we don’t create the possibility for choreographic art to exist in a wider scale, in different domain, if we don’t use all the potential of this discipline and if we just focus on the economical aspect of this model,
Which was relevant for a moment, but now, this model doesn’t work and we are just fitting. And then, that’s those perverse reactions that some models had so far. Then, I think, the international collaboration we could have are to this other kind of cooperation. The one I was mentioning before with Faustin Linyekula,
About his place, this one with those holiday camps that we are having already in abroad in Republic Democratic of Congo. And then, yeah, just this and about ecology. The chain of collaboration is very important, and you remember it, Tanguy. Because at the moment, it’s what is hard.
Because it’s very easy to say (speaks in French) in French, which means to produce better to (speaks in French) disseminate better. Actually, the thing which is behind it means then you have to cut the head. Because it’s what it means, it means to give more money to certain people
And to show longer certain people doing that. I mean, you don’t have to be very good in mathematics. It means you have just to limit the people you want to support. And that’s why I say this model if, or we’ll create a kind of diet for the profession or we’ll just create, yeah,
Poverty for a lot of our artists. Then, our mission, it’s again, to find all the alternative we can create. And our structures again, yours, everything you are doing, you say, (speaks in French) “We are working as well.” It’s to emphasize the choreographic practices to absorb, to still absorb, and to find the possibility.
Thank you. And just one last thing. (attendees laugh) Because it’s true because he’s not here, because non of it, yeah. You mentioned Van Cleef & Arpels, and it’s true that we need those partners, and in a long term process, and that’s where I want it to come.
‘Cause, I think that the support should be political first, not economical, but political first because there is money in different countries, but if there is not the political choice to put it on promoting art and to support art in the long term, we are going nowhere.
And that was a bit the where I wanted to go, speaking about the economy of United States. But it’s true that for example, Van Cleef & Arpels, and you say that, Janet, really, really bring support because they believe in this society with art practices, with fine art. And lucky we are for that.
I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I end up with that. I think that might be the theme of this panel is to maybe, again, echo some of the themes that have happened in the last two days, and raise a lot of questions, and opportunity around it.
We’re not obviously going to get to all the answers in this panel and appreciate the expansiveness of each of your comments. I’m mindful of our respondent, but I want to give both of you a chance to respond to, was there something that either one of you said
That you want to jump in on before I jump in with a different question? ‘Cause, I could go a lot of directions here. Can I ask these two gentlemen, do you have problem bringing in audiences? I know you talk about a lot of outreach and all of that. Because you know, yeah,
Also, training the audience at a young age to come in like, we have a problem of arts education in this country. You know, art is the first thing to go, highways and hospitals are always more important, the defense’s budget is more important. So, art is suffering.
So, you have children coming out of school. By the time we reach them in our theater, they’re already adults. Maybe that’s too late. And then, you wonder why do we have a population that cannot have nuanced thinking or critical thinking, or have the patience to look at something,
And the audience for the kind of art form that we do, the more, I know you say, “Let’s do also all kinds of work.” And we do various kinds of work, but for the experimental work, for lack of a better word, that audience is I think is small. It’s relatively small, right?
I have peers in this room, it’s relatively small. And then, I have people in my organization, I’ll probably lose my job after this, that say, “No one wants to pay for experimental work.” And then, you look at BAM, sorry, sorry, BAM, that there are Next Wave Festival.
That’s where I got my art education from when I first moved to New York. It’s so beloved. It made Brooklyn what it is. And now, you’re performing tonight. At the height of it, there were what? 30 shows at the Next Wave Festival. This fall, there are six or seven
(sighs) and there are three theaters. So, like, what is going on? What is going on? And under the radar, you mentioned, right? Okay, I’m making a lot of enemies today. But the article that announced the season for the public theater, and the very beginning of the article is, “We are producing
The most expensive musical ever with Alicia Keys.” And then, it’s all sold out and you know, and extended already before it even opened. And then, at the very last paragraph is, “Oh, by the way, we are canceling Under The Radar.” You go, “Oh.” Sorry, I have a question.
When we are talking about decrease of the number of shows for instance, is it first linked to economical, even if it, I know it’s connected, of course? Is it about because of the audience that you cannot have in your theaters or it’s simply a financial question?
Well, for us, we don’t do that many shows. I actually only have 15 weeks out of the year for my department, and then, the rest of the weeks we rent the theater out to independent producers who wants to do their own work or to universities.
And then, if we’re lucky, we get a Broadway show in there that pays us, you know, commercial rates. So, but we work very hard to bring in the audience. We also partner with, you know, multiple universities around the city. We also work with the James Baldwin School
And we have a dance program in there. But I can’t answer for BAM. I know it has to do with budget. But perhaps to pull back a little bit, just again, around looking at curatorial ecologies, and looking at, you know, the thread of, you were starting to talk about, you know,
Again, the relationship to audience, but also who we’re serving. You brought the notion of service. Who are we serving? How are we serving the audience? How are you serving the artists from earlier today and yesterday? How are institutions adapting to be in better service to? I want to open up to Ali,
But before I do, is there a comment around that notion of how are we serving our artists? How are the institutions changing and adapting to be in service? How are we meeting them? Is there anything? I’m mindful that this is the final discussion,
So I want to end us on a moment of maybe, abundance and possibility if that’s possible. Are there comments around those notions? No, but I think it’s interesting about the notion of audience because we have many, many questions about that. But we need to remind that Rachid told, since Malraux,
We have a huge history with culture and we work on public mission. And that make a big difference. The question of audience connected to that question of democratization of culture as a tool to emancipate any citizen is at the center of where we are now.
It’s difficult to, especially for with the young people, and young audience, and we have to develop a lot of things to reach this new generation of spectators. But I think that years after years, we’ve also developed probably to speak very concretely special skills when probably you have in your theater
A big team to fundraise. We have probably big team in what we call public relation and people who are really doing the job in that. Yeah, thank you for. (laughs) So, that’s also, it’s really, really difficult. I don’t know what, yesterday, I was saying that to someone.
The thing that I’ve learned the most after my experience in Chicago is that France and the US are incredibly different. (all laugh) And it’s probably more different than France and Cambodia or France and Brazil, and really. That question is a typical example of we could discuss
For many, many hours about how to deconstruct our story and to know why are we there today, so. Thank you for bringing up those differences. I’m mindful Ali Rosa-Salas is here as our respondent. Thank you for being here from Abrons Arts Center.
Do you have some kind of, you know, coming to a close, some words there that are in your mind from today’s conversation? And let’s get you a mic too. Thank you. Good afternoon. Oh, ooh. Thank you so much for having me. I’ve been thinking, Janet, a lot about what you’re saying,
Just about what’s happening right now in Gaza. It’s not something I cannot speak about, especially in relationship to the subject matter of this conversation. So, thank you for amplifying that. And Lauren too, it’s impossible to not think about, and it’s made me return to a question
That’s been in the tumbler cycle of my brain, I think since I’ve started this curatorial work is around institutionality, and the fact that, institutions are people. And I think perhaps the more one ascends in their professional trajectory, in some ways it feels like the more dehumanizing
Because you become more like a building, (chuckles) and less like a person. But I always try to hold to the fact that institutions are people, and people have subjectivities, right? And so subjectivities are defined by lived experience, which shape values. And then, because people make up institutions, they’re making decisions that are value-driven,
And distributing resources and making decisions based on those values, right? And so one of the many things that keeps me up at night is how this conversation around values and subjectivity relates to curatorial practice. And my deep dissatisfaction with, I think, the depersonalization of the curator, in the sense of the reason why
Curators are interested in this work is because of their point of view that is deeply political and is deeply context driven, and is rooted in time, and place, and identity, and all the things that we need to be talking about, right? And so, blah, blah, blah. Preamble brings me to thinking about
In this particular moment, I think the art form letter was brought up. We live in a culture of statements. And I’m thinking a lot about the role of cultural institutions in this particular, I mean, always. I mean, that’s why Angela, to your point, why I do this work is because I deeply believe
That arts and culture shifts the paradigm, the capacity to think creatively is what will save us. But I think about integrity, right? As it relates to curatorial practice, as it relates to values, as it relates to subjectivity, especially in a time like this. Like, what is the role of cultural institutions
In this really historic moment that we’re all facing in horror? If you have a brain and a heart. And how does integrity in curatorial practice sort of factor in? Like, how is that word sort of sitting with each of you as we navigate this moment,
And the future of what it is that we’re endeavoring to do in this work. So, that’s my question. Thank you so much for entertaining it. Thank you. Does someone want to take that on in terms of, Rachid, Tanguy? Yeah, I hope I was clear. Like, I think, that’s all the…
You speak about integrity and I heard empathy. At the moment, and maybe, referring to what we are trying to say from before with this word of service. It is through this lens to be sure that our function is, say, enough well informed to have enough empathy for all the problematic that the diversity
We are having confront us. Complex word to say. But that’s what lead us as a curator, as a programmer. I don’t like curator because it gives the feeling that the active position that I really see myself as a person who gives space and hospitality in term of giving space,
Not hospitality in term of, we’re going to, well, receive the audience, the artist. No, to be sure that’s, for example, we use Yousef’s concert to be sure that they gonna come, they have the power to, they will have the budget, they can propose manifestation to gather people,
And we try to work with them. When we work with the community of vogging, we say, “Okay, then what could be the next step for the ballroom?” Like, et cetera, et cetera. Then, it’s more by giving spaces and to be sure to try because, how I said before?
The strengths to repeat models is always here and sometime it’s totally unconscious. But I would say that’s what I’m trying to have every day when I’m receiving a proposal, when I’m speaking with someone. I’m just trying to understand deeply the project and to make the efforts, to find the resources,
To find the places of expression of all those different projects. And that’s why I said before the expression of this project could be to go to knock to what we call the, (speaks in French) the development French agency to help to build a school
Because they think that the priority is to build a school. It is to work with people from minister of education because they decide recently to have 30-minute practices every day in the school. Which then, dialoguing with a teenager to see if we can make a video tutorial, where those people are with artists.
And then, we try to, I don’t know, just to emphasize the artistic practice. And sometime, it is just by receiving someone for a proposal on stage and to keep going. And I don’t know if that’s answering the question, but I would say that’s what is the thing that lead Chaillot everyday.
Janet, did you have a response as well? Well, Ali, thank you for saying that institutions are people also, and that we are values. A very dear old friend of mine who passed away in 2020, during the pandemic, she was 90 years old.
We asked her, she’s one of my favorite people in the world. We asked her, “So, how do you teach young children morals?” And she said, “You don’t, you teach them integrity, you show them integrity. You instill that in them.” So, integrity is so central. And I also like to think of institutions
As related to people, not just that they are run by people, but that an institution can also embody values that, but it starts with the individual, and it’s then, the family, then, the village, then, that’s Confucius. Then, the city, but you have to take care of this part first.
Sometimes I don’t know how to move because my thoughts may not represent the organizations. And then, I have to step back and be humble, and think, “Okay, who am I harming in thinking these thoughts?” But right now, in this moment, I don’t know. We have not discussed this moment
Within the organization, just privately. And I’m (sniffs) very, very troubled by that, by this country. I am kind of ashamed at this moment of this country and other western countries too. But yes, I don’t know if that answers your question at all. ALI: I was listening to a talk
That Fred Moton was giving. And he was speaking so beautifully to the complexity. Speaking specifically around statements and institutions, sort of making statements on what’s happening in the world. And he was like, I signed the art form letter, but I don’t want anyone to speak on my behalf, you know?
And I really valued how he was able to hold the complexity of what it means to be a person, you know? And the contradictions that we all embody and inhabit from moment to moment. And I think, yeah, I just appreciate your honesty in sort of wrestling,
And not necessarily being, yeah, being in that sort of curatorial like leadership, and being someone to have to have a vision in moments that are so emotionally and psychically charged. I think that we just all have to be more honest about the complexity, and about the contradictions, and multiplicities that we all inhabit.
So, thank you. Thank you for that. Ali, I’m looking at Noemie, ’cause I know we’re at time. I know Rachid has a production schedule at BAM. But I just wanna encourage the honesty and encourage the generosity, the curiosity, the transparency, the new models that we’re hinted at today.
Noemie, I’m going to pass it over to you in terms of time to guide us around further questions or if we need to close. I want to thank the four of you, Angela, for, yes, steering the conversation in such, yes, beautiful, rich ways. And also, to the three of you
For your thoughts, provocations. So, we’re going to just pause here because Rachid has to go. Thank you so much, Rachid. (attendees applaud) I hope we are all going to see the performance tonight or tomorrow at BAM. And then, I don’t know if you want to stay here
As we take a moment to wrap up together or you know, it’s also a way perhaps to open for questions. And yes, I can also start by offering a few thoughts. We also had a little statement from Philip. I was wondering if maybe we can just,
I would just read a few sentences, put these in the room. Philip is bringing to attention how fraught this global moment is, and yet, wants to call for greater international exchange, why it matters, maybe, especially, at this time. And I’ll just read you the last part, perhaps,
Saying hope lies in new models emerging in longer, deeper, residencies. In multiple modes of new digital exchange in collaborative, and this diversified curation systems, and local global exchange rooted in the specifics of distant localities. And ecologically, minded reinvention of touring in new global alliances and shared research systems.
Building greater trust between artists and curators, audiences, and organizations, founders, and institutions, and between diverse global partners will help point the way forward. Finding new ways to sustain the power of the collective live art experience is the essential work of our time. And so, I want to say, I want to thank, everyone,
You know, the panelists, but everyone in the audience also to have been willing to engage, you know, in this experiment, I would say. I know we’ve covered, I mean, or it feels like we’ve branched out in so many areas. And yeah, I feel very grateful for the kind of time
And labor to engage in the different works, you know, that you do. You know, hearing from perspectives from curators, and dancers, and archivists, and you know, makers, it feels very valuable at this time. And I just want to maybe, to go back to, you know, this idea for reciprocity,
Which, you know, as I mentioned yesterday in opening, you know, just as I’ve been thinking about it, I find very striking in this idea that, you know, it is a kind of moving back and forth, right? There’s a practice to it, it seems to me, right? It never can be just a given,
But it’s something that we have to revisit, and sustain over time. And surely, time has been a word that recurred for the last two days, right? Yesterday was very present in regard to the residencies, but also about pedagogy, right? To be reminded that, yeah, dancers are maybe not just available as, you know,
Noé suggested and also Josh reminded us. So, this idea of creating partnerships or relations, right? Over time with dancers. But also I think across institutions and borders is, yeah, very meaningful. And so, yes, I wonder if we have thoughts or questions. you know, it’s not easy to…
But maybe just to save time and bring back Dorothée you know, from this morning then, the gathering of the dispersed, right? The gathering of the dispersed as a kind of collective practice, right? That I feel like many of you are doing already. You know, the respective practices.
Yeah, it feels like a beautiful, yes. and actually, quite potent way of thinking of the work. Yeah. Questions? Ah, thoughts. Yeah, I wanted to share a story stemming from what Rachid Ouramdane shared about the history of Chaillot. I just completed a long research project around
That era in France, at which time, my grandfather was the equivalent of the minister of culture. And he was actually responsible for building the Palais de Chaillot, as we know it today. And the year it opened was 1937, which, obviously, was two years before the second World War broke.
It was one year after France passed the law for the Congés Payés giving vacation for all workers in France. And the project of Chaillot was very much coming out of this political mindset. It was a point in France at which the political body, the largest political body in France headed
By the President and the Assemblée Nationale really believed that democracy could only happen through the arts, and through arts education, and through culture, and through the sharing of culture. What’s important to note also as we stand all here today is that in 1938, the year after Chaillot opened,
A year before the war broke, France introduced l’AFAA, which is the reason that there is a cultural ambassador in New York and anywhere in the world. This is the institutional body that created cultural diplomacy in France. And so, as we, you know, stand in this historical moment,
Am it’s all these global crises, I think to be reminded of, you know, that utopian government maybe, you know, like, there dictators called it utopian because of course, the war happened nonetheless. But to note that, you know, that that’s a political project. Arts education and bridging these worlds,
And creating spaces where arts can be disseminated for all is a political project amidst the global crisis that we’re facing. Thank you all for that wonderful panel and Ali for the response. And I just also wanna thank you, Noemie, for bringing us together. I don’t know if we’ve had that been. Really. (attendees applaud) And thinking about that work and the curating ecologies, I thought I’d just throw something in there which I started to wonder, like, can you curate an ecology? And what happens when we try to curate ecologies? And then, we have like Central Park right outside, which is such a curated ecology.
And we’ve done so much destruction trying to curate ecologies rather than trying to attend to the ways in which they thrive and they live. And just to the comment then about institutions being people, it made me think of one of my favorite quotes from Wilfred Bion psychoanalyst.
‘Cause, I often thought like, institutions are people, and like somehow now being in an institution, running an institution that like still hurts to say that. So, I started to turn to this quote where Bion says, “The problem with all institutions is that they are dead, but the people inside them are not.”
And there’s something about that that feels just in this room to say that like, constantly looking for what is alive in these institutions we inherit. Not to lambast institutions, but to say we’re always in some ways working against the forms we’ve inherited. That makes me wonder, like, you know,
When we’re curating, are we curating towards? This is a conversation I’ve had with Noemie, which is why made me, just full circle, wanna thank you is like, what would it be to curate towards something other than the performance than the event? And so, I just enter that as a sort
Of open-ended question into the space. Hi, no, I just wanna say thank you so much and how moving it is to be in the room with you all. And the question of ecology reminded me of this great French thinker, when asked the question, “What should we do?” You know, after like an hour long podcast about
The state of the ecology and the planet. And he said, very seriously, “People should dance and people should sing.” And I think that there’s this level of empathy that happens when we’re connected to oneself, to others, and to the world around us. And just seeing Emmanuel do her gesture earlier today, I’ll keep it in this body that is also the archive of having seen so much work over the years and being this living library, and the impact that we all had on each other’s life that we’ll never be able, or I will never be able to put words to it
Because it’s this kind of transmission even as a audience member. And so, I just wanted to remind myself, and maybe others also just of the importance of small gestures in the context of the complexity of our world. So, thank you. I’ll want to thank everybody, Noemie, and Villa Albertine, and staff.
Amazing, and this amazing community of creators, thinkers, great sense of solidarity. I just want to bring it back to the incredible, wonderful comment and enlightened reminder to us about what arts do for cohesion, for democracy, and especially, relevant to us in New York in an American system where as Janet
And many others pointed out, how much we benefit from European support and it’s bringing productions that have been created with European taxpayers money and European state support. And what do we do to disseminate our own work? At what prices? What kind of access we create for our audiences
Where American taxpayers also support the system of tax exempt institutions? However, very few people percentage-wise benefit from access As Janet reminded me, I also remember the times when for $7 I could go and see Pina Bausch at BAM in the ’90s. And check out the prices now
For any international production that come to BAM and many other institutions, and how little access actually people have. For us presenters. And I’m one of the presenters, I run PS21, upstate New York. It has direct relevance because we do not cultivate our audiences. We don’t throw these kinds of systems of exclusion,
Of economic exclusion, we don’t cultivate our audiences. So, it’s just more maybe an appeal to solidarity, to pay attention to this that we have to really also, as individuals, make an effort to work for our institutions, and encourage our institutions not only to disseminate the work through accessible pricing, but also, more importantly,
Reach out to communities, very wide communities, and make a special effort to engage those communities in residencies and participatory work, and also in attending those institutions. And lastly, the generosity of French Embassy and Villa Albertine. Also, why not guys joining us in this efforts of actually requesting that the prices for the productions
That you so generously fund are also accessible to the widest populations in this city and elsewhere. So, thank you so, so much, everybody, again. Good afternoon. So, I’m here at the beginning and at the end. (laughs) And for those of you that I didn’t meet yesterday, I am Judith Roze, director,
Acting director of Villa Albertine. Pleasure to see you again. I’d like to thank you all for attending these two days of exchanges. We hope you found this event to be both informative and enjoyable. Of course, I’d particularly, like to thank our speakers, our moderators, and Noemie for leading your discussion so effectively.
And because, the day is not quite finished. And because we have a few more announcements to make, we’d like to invite you all to celebrate in the next room with a glass of champagne. Thank you.