Canyon Aeroad vs Cervelo S5 & The Festive 500 is Toxic | The NERO Show Ep. 62

A week of riding the 1x Cervelo super bike, Jesse wants answers, and we go into depth trying to work of the language that really makes sense to riders when it comes to a review.

Who should be riding a 1X system, Alex Dowsett starts a coaching company and we review our chat with Joe from @ChinaCycling.

We hope you enjoy the show and a happy New Year to everyone!

Chapter Markers
00:00 intro
00:30 S5 First Impressions
12:50 Who Should Run 1X
23:01 Review Specs That Matter
32:19 Proposed Festive 500 Changes
41:54 China Cycling Chat
45:41 Visma Lease A Bike
48:23 Alex Dowsett Coaching
55:44 Jesse blasts Chris For Post

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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
STRAVA: https://www.strava.com/athletes/186450
Check Out Jesse’s Coaching: https://www.nero.club/coaching

Welcome to this week’s episode of the Nero show in today’s episode I’ve been drinking the one by Kool-Aid for over a week what’s it been like what’s underrated and what’s overrated everyone’s halfway through their festive 500s or are they we propose a few changes Alex stet starts a coaching

Company and we reflect on our chat with Joe from China cycling what did we all learn from that one all right let’s get into it so Chris it has been one week into new bike day can you give it to me tell me how it is I’m very curious now

You know what you’re not allowed to say so here’s the challenge explain how the new bike’s going without those classic onliners I’m very curious I’m been dreading this cuz I how do how do bike reviewers do this like seriously I I’ve had suggestions from people on like what

Terminology I can use I it’s just been yeah it’s been quite stressful to think about this why don’t I why don’t I help you out okay let’s start off with the objective so we did discuss the weight of it and what we thought would be fair what’s this thing come in at weightwise

Yeah so good question with that thumbnail we did last week that was that was accurate to the point of what we were talking about so without pedals without bottle cages and that kind of stuff so built up with pedals with bottle cages with a really crappy computer Mount which I’ll get into uh

7.57 kilos that is very respectable I think we can all say it does have one buy but I could that’s that’s really competitive I can I can say that that blew me away it didn’t seem to surprise uh the guys at the bike shop as much which I thought was interesting and

I think you mentioned the one by thing that is especially on the Shram side of side of the equation definitely a big a big weight saving thing that front d trailer in the Shram world with its battery and all its mechanics is a bit of a chunker it’s a bit of a

Clunk so what was in my brain and my mind and a lot of the discussions that I had with other S5 users is our two byy Runners and that’s where I kind of was thinking the 7.8 in that sort of that’s cuz I chatted to Edwin about this too

And he was whole going on about how good it is and run by with SH because of the battery thing cuz onam you’ve got the battery on the rear derailer battery on the front derailer so if you take the front derailer off you’re losing half your battery on

Shimano where the batter is totally separate sits in the seat tube most of the time if you lose the front aril you don’t also lose part of the battery so I did go and I did some research everyone you’ll be happy to know so take the front derailer off on its own saves

About 145 gr the battery is another about 25 G so put those two together plus the chain ring the chain ring saves about 45 G too so put that together you’re in about 200 g territory if you’re running Shram to go one by which might not sound like

A lot and you always say this and there’s people that go it’s just 200 grams you’re not going to notice that Speedways up a clim blah blah blah but how many times at the cafe have you heard you ask someone I got a marid reacto let’s say what’s it like oh it’s

A good bike you know I really like it good at speed but it’s about 8 kilos it’s it’s that I’ve heard that so many times so going to one byy taking off 200 g suddenly instead of 7.98 you’re 7.7 7.6 and when when you’re spending 10

Plus Grand on a bike going being able to remove that oh but it’s about 8 kilos makes a difference in terms of how you’re perceiving the bike so I think um look it’s it’s obviously not that heavy of frame and all the things like that to

Get it like that but I do think yeah going the one by as you said it’s the the new ceramic speed that’s where it’s making the difference in the the chat at the cafe almost tempted to do like this overr overrated and underrated thing when it comes to talking points

From one by setups or even just this change in general because so the first thing I heard well the first first chat was oh you’re really going to notice the shift increase you’re really going to notice it in terms of going from Shimano di2 12s speeed cream of the crop best

Thing that’s ever been invented dogs bollocks all the rest of it to this Shram stuff you’re really going to notice the change you’re going to hit the hit the button wait 20 minutes and then finally it’ll shift massively overrated in terms of an issue now there

Is a potential here I’ve I’ve had a few DMS from people who yeah will remain nameless I like where this is going okay who have suggested that the one by setup on a Shram group set speeds up the rear derailer shift like we’re talking we’re talking a

Little bit but there’s there is a thing in it okay because it’s not the system isn’t waiting there’s there’s less of a delay because it’s not waiting for the the antics of is this going to be a front derailer shift the red derailer the the shifters know that this is a

Rear derailer shift no matter what because it doesn’t have the double press correct it’s not waiting to see if you press other one okay the delay is less right now I I I I haven’t tested this but I will definitely say I’ve had a very very very limited

Experience riding Shram Road in the past and when I moved to Shimano 12 speed couple 0 months ago I was initially surprised with just how Snappy the shifting was coming back to Shram now onto the one by setup I was less W Blown Away by that so potentially that’s a

Thing does it know you’re running one by though does the rear derailer know there’s not a front derailer or well who sends the signal does the shifters know there’s not a front derailer is it like in the app is that a conf is it does it detect config it’s

Not configured yeah one by in the app please okay correct me down below if that isn’t the cas how would it be able to speed up the shifting unless it knew unless you had told it there’s no front ailer so that it’s not waiting for that

Second paddle I mean you know what I mean that’s a potential hole in my argument what YouTuber would you pick to run this test because there’s a couple of things in my head here it’s it’s it’s going okay if I just go one by and don’t change any of the settings can the

System detect it and speed the shifting up does that happen yes or no and then so if it’s no is there a is there a way to turn to to configure it as one by and then does it speed up the shifting or does it not speed up the

Shifting at all no matter what you do unless you have this supposed special Source Yambo firmware that speeds it up who would you pick who’s who’s the guy for this do you think okay so I’m really glad you asked that question because I did a little bit of digging before I

Made this shift shift and there was a guy a guy in the US he’s just not a big Channel I think it’s John Maloney cycling and he’s got this whole series where he’s got this rig jigged up with Shram red versus Shimano and he’s he’s doing full like split timing tests of

The shifts and all that kind of stuff now he’s got two or three of these um I’ve seen him do them he’s done like full slow motion verses it where he’s got like 400 frames a second broken down I’ll I’ll put the links down below but they’re great they’re just proper in

Your garage shift tests y John we need to get someone needs to get that man a one by set up and do some do some testing for us I can 100 let I can 100% see why that would speed up the shifting definitely this is whether that is

Occurring or not I’d be curious to know underrated underrated when it comes to this move was the feeling of the hoods there is so the size of those sham red hoods they they really do affect your position at least I find they do they’re bigger they’re essentially probably like

5 mil more reach at least on them the the way that you position your hands on them is is slightly different and it’s not it wasn’t for me just a simple case of taking my position from one bike to the other those hoods did make a difference the reach adjustments pretty

Good on them so I’ve made I’ve made that change but that if I was to just purely say like how it affected the brake modulation and all that kind of stuff I do think the Shimano stuff probably holds a little bit of sway in that and I

Didn’t hear that that’s the reason I say underrated I didn’t hear that chat too much like oh you’re really going to notice the hoods so how do you find the the ride of the bike much of muchness better slower what’s what’s the what’s the vibe now you’ve ridden it in

Centennial you’ve ridden it topa you’ve done a a Brooklyn bobbin head kind of hilly loop with some 8 Minute climbs is pretty similar it’s pretty similar in terms of in terms of the the actual ride quality of the bike yeah it it’s pretty simp if if you actually

Blindfolded me on the first ride and said it’s like humans are at this like we’re so bad at this those first couple of rides you get doesn’t matter what it could have been an Ali Express bike at this point you get on the thing and you just

Like new bike whoa like every just going to be dropping everyone now it’s so yeah if you’d blindfold me that first day I would have just been I would have come in here and gone why my Lads I tell you what it’s all done it’s Miller Miller

First second third for the rest of the year but um yeah look it’s taken me I talked about that reach thing it’s taken me a good week today was the first day the bike started to feel like mine if that makes sense y like I was actually

Starting to sort of throw it around a bit and it’s this is I don’t know this isn’t specific to this bike but it’s ridiculous like I just rode a 200 watt endurance ride around Sydney which is kind of hilly and bumpy and things and it’s like 32 km an

Hour average speed it’s a joke it’s an absolute joke what you can do on these things can I give two irrelevant stra segments no I won’t can I say no yeah because there are relevance driver segments if you say the times you’re making them relevant so you can’t then

Say I saw this I saw the Instagram story you did mhm and I was like why did you do that Chris you’ve you put it in there this is irrelevant because of X number of different variables but then you’ve put it up anyway and you’ve made the irrelevant relevant my my my rationale

For calling it being able to call it irrelevant was because I was going to back up that time with okay so that was a faster climb quote unquote over the Arro right and so you would say oh that’s interesting S5 is faster on the CL more I’m not sure about that that’s

Not what I heard would would be the case but the other one that I was going to use was I did my 40 minutes 300 watts Centennial Park pure just Flatline Arrow speed and it was half a kilometer and hour slower than the aod over that particular thing on completely different

Days completely different conditions but yes here we are yeah you’re in the stra rap digging through it digging through and posting it anyway absolutely yep well how come the followup where where did the follow-up story go well that was this was the followup oh the followup

Was tune in today and I I will tell you that this is going to be irrelevant I will can those on Instagram think is this thing is an absolute spaceship unless they’ve come on and can I come back to the one by theme real quick sure

So I did make the mistake last week I said 1133 it’s of course it’s a 1033 oops um and it’s a 52 front chain ring for riding around Sydney you would not want anything less than that under any circumstances like that’s that’s pushing the limits of it I

Think I had this chat to you during the week where I was saying there’s a few kind of known like slopes around here and if you’re trying to do like an endurance ride or something like that it’s borderline impossible with with that gearing so there’s like a a a slope

On the way up wur Parkway which is probably about 7% I got to do pretty much 300 something watts to get up that in the in the 33 oh don’t get me wrong like no one should be running one by Sydney I mean pretty much the only

Reason would be so that you can say your bike’s 200 g lighter at the cafe in every other way it’s more annoying no I disagree okay increased chance of dropping your chain not yet proved go on okay well Primos at the two okay every pretty much every other chain

Drop I see is one by now the different they run those aftermarket chain ring things all right okay I’m I’m I’m waiting for my first chain drop and I will I’ll post a picture of it does the Shri it’s not a clutch rator is it just

A regular Road one y have you got a chain keeper on it no none of those you cannot tell me that your chance of dropping a chain is not is the same or less than if you had a front derailer on oh it’s definitely more okay yes okay okay

That’s actually I’m not sure that is the case because I’m not shifting it and so the the likelihood of me dropping the chain during the shift is zero now so that’s that’s rational that’s a thing the with a properly set up front derailer the chain doesn’t drop from shifting every single person listening

To this show has had their chain Dro from shifting it’s just improperly set up yeah but that’s not we don’t live in that world we live in a world where we just park bike ra my bike a lot and pretty much every drop dropped chain I see is someone running one

By I don’t disagree with that I think in a in a race circumstance specifically like a crit circumstance yes you’re dead right the chances are probably higher because no one is shifting their front their front derailer in a in a criterium I I’ll give you that but on a day-to-day

Circumstance no I I don’t think in a way it can be mitigated I admit like yeah if you don’t set your front derailer up properly you drop your chain can set up your front derailer properly so it doesn’t drop the chain yes in a way that you can’t mitigate with one

Buy that natural inclination for the chain to come off which I may be totally making up and maybe God is just pulling people’s one by chains off when I when when I’m right past them I don’t know uh oh I’ve been the first person to laugh

At one by Riders on the side of the side of the track in a in a crit saying well look at you you stupid idiot like don’t get me wrong I’m being that person and I potentially will be at some point but yeah they um where we were going through

A set of pro can I just quickly say keeping this thing clean oh my God amazingly easy that you don’t realize removing all that stuff from the front derailer how nice and easy it is like I got stuck in just a proper slopfest in Centennial Park the other day on this

And it was a very easy she was a pose down and tail off pretty much at this point like very very good so that’s that’s a thing that’s that’s a little nudge in the practicality element for me try not to comment um on the hose down and tail off um so moving on

So you’ve got just just in just to not shill one by you got to ride you go up a hill you got to ride a massive gear cuz you don’t have a front you don’t have an inner ring you got arguably an increased chance of your chain coming off but your

Bike’s 200 gram lighter I mean I’m taking the double chain any oh but it’s easy to clean easy to clean easy to clean and it sounds cooler at the cafe and I’m going to wear my knee cges out pretty quickly be right and it looks cooler and it looks cooler take a pick

Take a pick I mean yeah it’s it is it’s funny writing it I I will admit in terms of like so I I’ll probably get used to this but I found myself thinking a lot about I even put it up on my garment like where I am on the cassette to give

Me give me a bit of an idea about where I am um you kind of think a little bit more about your Cadence I’m not sure that’s a good thing or a bad thing because it was I found it really easy for the first couple of rides to you

Just start to grind and you you you just grind you like just it’s almost like the death spiral on urg mode you were kind of just lazily not thinking about it and next minute you’re doing 66 Cadence and you’re hang on what what’s happened here and you

Sort of think about and you pop it down a few so there’s definitely you definitely are more engaged I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing with actually where you are on the on the cassette because you need to be yeah

Okay okay so do you set up the The Hub indicator on the unit with the gear in I’ve I’ve I’ve got it on one of my screens now yeah gosh yeah but the other the other useful thing you can’t look down check the other useful thing on the

Garment is it gives you an alert when you’re in the extremes on either end and that’s the other thing it’s kind of weird to start on what it gives you an alert yeah it gives you you’ll get a beep if you’re in the 10 or the 33 once

You shift into that that um gear it will give you a little what beeps the head unit or the shifters the head unit head unit beeps mhm oh my God try and catch up I just this is modern day cycling Jessie Jesus where are you very this is that’s

Cool that’s very I I that’s a great feature I really love that that’s not a Shram thing by the way that’s on every group you can set it up to do that yeah okay what is how is that useful in case accidentally pressed the button one more

Time and the you’re there all right in the 33 all right in the 10 H good to know nice to know yep okay okay now so what’s going on with this headunit Mount thing you’re going on about no good oh so that was that’s just like a general rant

Because in the last few years the like the essentially the super bikes that I’ve had a chance to ride the proprietary bike computer head units that come with these things are absolute slop the canyon one was like this piece of plastic that sort of shoved your

Garment at like a 90° level and you’re like what we’ve just spent multi-million dollars worth of research and development and we’re slapping our garments at like a 45 Dee level like what is happening here and the the I remember that you came I was laughing at

You came to the park in the garms like that what is going you you properly bik shamed me on that one yeah I was like and then the sella one it’s it’s kind of not much better it’s it’s it’s over engineered it’s like this weird two-part

System where you sort of attach one part and it’s backs onto the other part ultimately it just has all these fail points so there’s lots of there’s lots of um hinges on it so if not if all the hinges aren’t screwed to the right torque setting of course what ends up

Happening is the computer starts coming loose anyway and me with the the 1040 it’s already kind of in the heavy Bigg bigger side of it so I’ve already had two situations where I basically had take the Ted unit off put it in my back pocket cuz the bloody mounting system’s

Bobbling away so I don’t know I it’s just that’s just a general it’s like inner sols with $700 shoes they’re always trash black computer mounts on $20,000 bikes for some reason a trash so aftermarket one I’ll put a link down to a guy in wa who does one he’s a

Good man so he’s going to send me one to use so I’ll get on board there’s another guy headunit Mount guy 3D printing guy well he’s he’s also my varia my varia uh seat post proprietary printing man he does them for all specific bikes so like

The the factor had one and he mounts it’s like a proper sits perfectly with the Tre SE post yeah good solution like that thank you Road poers no mention about shout shout to papers well done you got around for another year that’s a noded to the negative when it comes to practicality I

Will say the seat po the saddle solution they’ve got is one of the better ones I’ve seen for Arrow bikes so it’s just a one of those nice little bezel ones so you can set the level on it set the location of it and then tighten the bezel using your fingers before

Tightening tightening up I don’t know about you but I’ve had plenty of situations with AR bikes or any kind of high-end bike where the actual positioning of your saddle and getting the level is like some encyclopedia balance between the two torque settings of the two bolts the one

Of my TCR is like that like you got to yeah yeah this just was like set the level set the location tighten them up we’re done yeah it was really good actually MH I know it’s weird like little practical things like that make a difference like it’s just one one of

Those like yeah one of those little things is annoying I mean with this saddle you know maybe not cuz you’re not adjusting it that much but that stuff all adds up what do you want to know about it like is there an Ultimate test or an ultimate bit of feedback I can give

You because I’m only here to to make you happy Jesse all right I’m I’m I’m terrified of you at this point like you’ve threatened to walk out if I mention a phrase so I’m I’m I’m very conscious of this so I’m not sure whether you want like scientific like really detailed

Stuff or you just want Vibe cuz I can sit here and talk Vibe all day while you’re thinking if anyone’s got an idea for a top tube bag on this S5 please help me out because my current top tube bag doesn’t work and I thought maybe there’s like a

Proprietary one that works in the little bum crack I don’t know that would be really useful if there is one of those um but yeah my current top tube bag doesn’t work so Vibe Vibes on hold and I’ll also add that the maximum tie clearance is 32 mil

Thank you to the 300 people who dm’d me after that and I will be mounting 30 MS in the words of Joe from China cycling great question good question it was really nice having an interview and every time you ask go good question I went oh was it really oh

Thanks I can to start doing that now uh so great question uh the answer I really want is in comparison to the other bikes you’ve rode I don’t want high in the sky Vibe calls about speed because I could just go look up testing data I want to

Hear how it rides compared to yeah the previous bikes you’ve ridden so your Canyon a road your chapter 2 and also if you can try and remember back to your old your Rim brake bikes that’s what I want from you yeah as it relates to that I’m happy what specific things as it

Relates to that fair game it feels faster cool sure it feels lighter it’s a better ride smoother ride handles better twitchier go for gold but compared to X not compared to whatever make Bel stat yep I just think that’s important because especially from reviewers that’s really the only that’s really the only

Uh kind of opinion they have that’s based in anything is I used to ride this bike now I ride this bike and it feels X and you can’t unless they’re lying you can’t really argue with that and so if you can go to 10 different YouTubers and hear how xbike compares to

ABC other bikes and then do that across your 10 favorite YouTubers well you you can then start to get a pretty good idea of how the bike’s going to go uh and if as I said if everyone is just comparing comping this to some idealistic image of

How a bike should ride and feel you don’t you have no comparison points I’d love to really yeah get you dialed into that that’s where I think cam Nichols is good in that he generally refers to bikes from what I’ve seen in reference to other bikes he’s ridden he’s not off

With the fairies and that’s why it helps because you can then make better comparisons I do hate the fact that I put those St or that ST segment up right but so the almost the not the reason I did but the reason I started going down

That rabbit hole was because when I rode that climb it felt slow and I was like I was doing the oh I’m bit worried about this like that’s that’s a and then I see the time I’m like it’s like the fastest time I done out there in two years what do you that’s

What I mean what do you mean it feels slow when I put a bit more power out I would prefer to Fe have felt the bike move faster so it’s not okay yeah so perhaps if you were more specific would you say it’s not as Twitchy it’s not

As stiff even well I could I could I could go into the rabbit hole of it’s not as reactive okay but then the problem with that was when I was doing but then but then compared to it’s not as insert adjective compared to the air you don’t like it don’t like that

Kind I I know because the first so the the first ride that I did on the bike uh Dan gave me a set of like 302s or no it was 303s actually and so that’s essentially a reactive feeling like Vibe right and I did that session I

Was like holy crap this is nothing like all the warnings people were giving me about oh it’s slow to get started blah blah blah blah I felt like snap I was moving okay and I loved it but that’s that’s important that’s better than so in from my point of view that’s better

Than the bike was 30 seconds faster up Bob and head in false conditions right like I’d rather your totally potentially incorrect but subjective feeling compared to fewer data which is just junk because of the all the other considerations cuz you’re kind of in your head you’re waiting that more

Because it’s faster but it’s potentially totally wrong whereas it felt slow yeah it felt slow I mean do you want to ride a bike that feels slow I don’t now you could then compare more objective things to see what the actual speed would be but how that feels is

Still important in buying a bike I want to ride a bike that feels fast now I also want to ride a bike that is fast but how can but how can a bike that felt Snappy and reactive when I’m doing short more intense power profile things how can that

Bike feel slower to get started at at a at a lower do you know what I mean this is where I’m in but that’s on you so that’s the skill of the reviewer is to write it in all those different sessions and different terrains and try and sort through some of that

Noise I guess and really give a true feeling of how the bike feels like I would actually say that’s on you to to 100% to kind of cut through 100% but it doesn’t mean it’s not worth yeah it’s that doesn’t mean that’s that’s less valuable than you know a random time up

A pretty much random condition segment yeah but that’s also me because I would just never buy a bike because because someone on YouTube said it went 30 seconds quicker up a random segment but I I’m I would be influenced in my purchasing decisions to buy a bike because someone said the ride

Felt really smooth and it was a great bike to ride and they loved the way it handled like that would impact how I purchase I guess it’s it’s also individual depending on what someone what information someone wants to absorb when they’re looking at was so much I

Mean that’s the kind of little nuances of the performance thing what really me this is this is a highend super bike and I’ve essentially got it slammed at the moment and I’m suffering no body aches and pains and things like that that to me is something and again that was I

Remember I remember who warned me on that was like oh you’re going to you’re going to feel beaten up with this bike and I’m almost waiting for it you know and again maybe it’s just time and that that sort of thing but that’s been and that’s a that’s a factor that’s an

Interesting thing to me that I’m I’m able to ride in a position like that and not be suffering what I would have thought would be the consequences of that yep you know I mean I know that can yeah but then as a good reviewer that comes and

You to then be like okay well is the is the position similar to what it was on the air road is it you’re trying in your due diligence is to try and remove all of the other potential factors to make sure that what you’re feeling is from

Yeah from that sounds like you know you’re Pur you’ve ridden a lot you know what the you’ve ridden for so so much you know if the bike’s in a different position all right guys you are you with Jesse do you want to see specific ride style rhetoric around this or you’re

More interested in the the data side of it how’s your festive 500 gone JC uh not good it went downhill quick cuz I missed the first day you were talking a big game coming into this you were talking come on well I missed the Christmas Eve ride I didn’t have time

And then you behind the eightball then it’s Christmas Day and if you’re you ride on Christmas day oh I could piss like well okay if you part of me thinks it’s really sad to ride on Christmas day cuz it’s a it’s a family day you just you should be with your

Friends and family loving life you can ride every other day of the year but in defense of everyone that rides on Christmas day maybe if you don’t have the big family thing to do and to go to it’s nice to get out and enjoy the quiet roads as someone who rode on Christmas

Day for the first time in a long long time I felt very self-conscious about it because I was with you I am I am I would see the uploads on Christmas day and I’m a bit like how dare you how dare you ruin our agreement that that is just a a day for

As you said family and that kind of thing but beyond that beyond that right again as someone who wrote on Christmas Day I think it’s against the spirit of the festive 500 to ride on that day it’s it’s a it’s it’s like it’s like the rest

Day at the Test match not that means anything to you but it’s it’s off limits and I firmly believe that your kilometers that you you secure on that day don’t either don’t count or should be minused off your off your ultimate off your ultimate total I don’t like it

Now I enjoyed my ride mhm circumstances of us being being up with Santa at when we were meant by 9:00 a.m. there was there was a couple hours so the circumstances allowed for it and yes there’s no traffic on the roads i r roads that I never get to ride on so

That was cool but yes self-conscious about it for that reason I think the festive 500 should move go Jan 1st to Jan 8th because there is because having the festive 500 on over Christmas you get the guilt because then Christmas Day I’m going well I it’s Christmas I should not be

Riding my bike but I’m losing ground to the F 500 a sad loser Miller out on Christmas day and every other loser is out ring on Christmas Day and then you’re be and then so it’s not it’s not a nice feeling so if if it was and the other

Thing is if you do your big festive 500 and then you cooked for the first couple days of the year okay you feel good your festive 500’s done but then you’re kind of behind the eightball on the the January tally cuz that’s a big thing is kind of

Get up and it’s Jan 1st you knock out 100K and you’re up you’re up ahead but if you’re tired cuz you’ve been cranking the kilometers you are totally out of touch coil out of touch here we go all right it’s all about cooking yourself it’s all about creeping your way to New

Year’s Eve absolutely flogged not wanting to see a bike ever again that’s that’s the whole ethos of of the thing now the the other part of this is a lot of it’s a time off thing the the the majority of people get that time between boxing for between Christmas Eve and New

Year’s Eve as you’re going to go with that roof rolls in on his high horse we have jobs you know it’s all well and good this but it becomes where I do agree with you that maybe I do agree with you I don’t know I’m just I’m just I’m talking

Out loud here okay because the actual location of the festive 500 becomes this logistic challenge of balancing the writing with family stuff probably so it’s it’s it’s going to be impacting potentially on the one part of the year which you do you would have got to spent 100% of the time with the

Family it’s what I don’t like and if you if you’re probably exercise addicted like I am it plays on the back of your it’s in there and because you’re probably eating more food than usually would and you’re like oh it be good to go and burn some calories and stay

Active and then that’s the whole toxic you know Road cyclist thing um whereas if it’s the festive would would be go the it’ be like the New Year 500 just hit January and just start cranking it Jan first and because Rec cyclist we we don’t really do anything no one’s out you know

Pumping New Year’s Eve really so so is it is it doesn’t matter is it what’s more disrespectful to ride on New Year’s Day or Christmas day oh ride on New Year’s Day is is is is is like everyone should be out there riding New Year’s Day most most Road

Cyclists you know probably not going to be drinking too much probably won’t be staying up to 3:00 a.m. so get out January 1st and get into it where is Christmas day it’s just it’s not on so that’s why I’d like to I’m I’m I’m I’m just moving

I’m not going to do it but I would potentially just move my 500 to the first week of the year I like it there’s there’s there’s room around it we could we could brand it as a I mean we’ve said this before like that the actual concept

This is slight this is all tongue and Shake I might add like the actual concept of the festive 500 has to be the most inclusive best social media SL influencer Ambassador thing in cycling yep full stop it is it like I look forward this is probably going to be the first year I

Haven’t done it in like a really long time I look forward to the festive 500 during the festive 500 if I’m doing it I will often put that on striver like you’re kind of naming it festive 500 day one you put your screenshots of the raer

Thing with like the how many KS you did as a coach quite often that’ll be part of the training I prescribed literally like I I’m if if it’s appropriate for that person maybe they don’t have any big events coming up it’s a part of their pre-season training is just do the

Festive 500 like you’ll try and fit that in so I I I it’s um I’m a I’m all for it just with me now it’s it’s not fitting so I’ve soured one of the like the joys of it that I find and you you’ll hear it pretty often so we live in Sydney

Metropolitan busy busy City the traffic at this time of year is is less okay so it’s it’s really it’s really good and what that means in reality so for it means so basically to to do a lot of the the longer rides for us we would

Normally have to leave very early so you would be probably meeting at 6 6:30 that kind of thing to get in a group to ride out of town to go and do these things where at this time of year you can legitimately leave at 9: MH 9:30 and get

Magic carpet runs up some of these main main passes and main roads to to do that so there’s I suppose that’s a long way of me saying like the the freedom that that allows me personally makes this a really enjoyable time to write and I will probably do

This just for that particular reason did you get any uh you look at Christmas presents what’s the deal yeah yeah anything cycling related uh well Joe sent me Joe sent me a panda Podium hat oh yeah and you got a panda behind you there oh you’re going to put it on

Yeah oh hold on is this is isn’t this like really racist no just a racist it’s a panda hat what’s with a panda hat imagine if you came on with like some Russian hat thing all right Panda Podium support Panda Podium got Panda Podium socks thank you Joe appreciate that uh what

Was the word for the uh your bikes your your layups what’s that a a CH chin J put your go do that do oh come on come on you said it wasn’t racist no put your Mone mouth it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck [Laughter]

J oh dear well that was is that going to make the edit that’s did you get any cycling presents oh sorry um I well no I was a bit light on present this year but I did get um I have a new set of wheels that I’m

Testing for a brand so that was kind of fun that came a couple of days before Christmas um and it is I I don’t usually get new gear like cycling gear I’m not that into it but I can’t deny just a new piece of something it it’s it’s like

Okay I’m going on the road bike instead of my usual he’s getting on the gravel bike again he’s Z can do his Zone to it’s I was purposefully getting out on the road bike cuz I had a new set of wheels it was really nice enjoyed it

Speaking of the chat with Joe yep what’s the have you got any takeaways this time six months six months on uh I’ve got my take away is I’ve I’ve fully cool on this Chinese direct from not from direct from China they all any of the direct from Asia

Stuff cuz the wheels is it’s it’s saturated it’s kind of done it’s still yeah still still good deals but it’s not exciting getting you know the wheels are sort of cool uh you still can’t buy a complete bike so you can buy frames and you got to go through all the headache

Of building them up until they’re doing really good group sets or you can buy complete bikes I’m just I’m not that doesn’t have the same spark it did probably two years ago where it was really exciting I thought I thought it was I mean we asked obviously that question if

You haven’t seen that video go and have a look at it it’s I I personally actually think it’s a it’s more interesting than the first time we had him on I I I think the chat that he was talking about with some of the counterfeit frames the molding stuff

Like that to me I leared a heap about that I did I thought was interesting what he was saying about the the mentality about these Chinese Brands and obviously got they’ve got their domestic market and that sort of is is a thing that they’re they’re thinking about but

It’s a very different way of thinking for these Brands because it’s not like I get the sense right it’s not like Sensa or L2 their their end goal is to be the next Shram or be the next Shimano I thought he was inferring that it’s that

They get bought by one of them or sort of morph into something that becomes the third one it’s like and that was that was the moment I was like oh yeah this is this is a decade away you can see it play out too CU I

I’m pretty sure we had this we might have had this discussion or we had it off on the phone call one day because we were talking about um Canyon and how um or giant even and you buy your giant helmet and your shoes and the bike and

It’s kind of what’s next well if giant just buy a group set license and then suddenly you’re buying a TCR with the group group set and they get the whole everything it’s um that’s where the prices could really come down if Canyon get in there and then suddenly

You’re buying Canyon aoad with a canyon power meter with a canyon group set oh if it works well that’s going to be a game changer 100% And then you you bring in all their distribution you bring in their research and development you bring in their factories I totally I totally

See that being the the way potentially but I mean when I when I when he said that and I started thinking about that my gut thing was oh it’s a decade like I that that thing of here we are we’re on the cusp kind of left me at that moment like yeah

So that was my biggest takeaway from it again I really enjoyed it um super interesting chat U with Joe um best wishes to to him and and the panda team I think he was also on with P he’s been busy man he’s on with Peak talk P talk

In the fat yep um they talked about us by the way oh we got a shout out we got a shout out very very positive seemingly sadly I don’t know um and also hambini gave us a shout out is kind of super cool we got like his in his version of

Some awards is up and coming or it’s doing good sticker stick at it Lads thanks that very cool appreciate that you’ve got a Vima Lisa bike thing in the notes Here can I just start off that this visma kit with the oh it is it just me or is that thing just

Disgusting what have they done I mean it on paper it’s similar it’s yellow and black but with the black band and it’s too much yellow I think you’re carrying on about nothing yeah kind of just it’s got looks a lot like the last few things they’re just leaning further into the

Bees type thing okay maybe it’s just me if I just popped up and it just went oh God it’s just no good anyway who makes it it’s still that ag ag there’s another one there’s another one have you seen an kit not allow to talk about this okay no but we

Seriously have you seen anyone in an agu kit not one person not one person but I tell you what’s going to happen is I will get 100 DMS from AG you wearers and they’ll all be telling me just like sportful and just like pissy they all

Got in contact with me and they were not happy Jesse we how dare we say that their kit doesn’t exist in Sydney well it doesn’t and yeah it’s it was like people were saying yeah it’s in all the bike shops it’s on all everyone buys it online it’s just sportful and pissy and

Those things predominantly in Germany and in the Vulcans and these countries so fair play to you so maybe AG you were kicking goals in Holland and Belgium but no that’s that reference that’s a good throwback a throwback it’s a part of the world so if I wanted to just quickly if

I wanted to buy AG kit right if I type agu kit cycling sale okay pul are we in a James Bond moveie I’m sorry that’s trash how can that how can someone legitimately say that that website is anything other than a Shopify website like that’s basically

The Nero kit freaking Channel mhm how is that in the same ballpark as Rafer and ateka and map like what are you talking about that this stuff’s the same that’s not so there yes so big okay so Europe the website loaded by default in Euros Europe EU was the default so quick

Bit of coaching chat so Alex daet has announced that he’s a well coach he’s starting a coaching company of of types there’s various different packages that you can do six different packages going all the way up to sort of £450 a month um interesting from my perspective

Because I I sort of have a bit of a struggle when it comes to former pros and the legitimacy that that seems to Warrant you in cycling it doesn’t go it goes beyond cycling for me because it goes into The Branding the marketing building bikes and stuff they all seem

To you carry this like former pro thing around with you so my I suppose my question is do you think that Alex would be a good coach would oh there’s so much here I could I could really be here for hours I could let this one run and can I

Just quickly say like okay I’m using him and his example but there’s like there thousands of these former Pros yeah that are now coaches or not even Pros just someone was relatively fast and then they just I’m a coach okay so pops up um okay well let let’s break it down so I’m

Just going through the coaching thing here so it is one to one coaching it’s like on private coaching now first thing off the bat he’s Char this might sound weird but he he’s charging enough which is the first thing because there are look Road cycling coaching for what is a

Pretty big industry because there’s a lot of riders that have coaches is on know from a business point of view from a professional point of view is a bit of a dumpster fire there’s all kinds of stuff so the first thing I like to see is that a coach is charging enough

Because there there are quite a few coaches that come in and if they’re charging you know if they’re charging sub $150 a month to make that a sustainable career at out of University or if you’ve finished racing or whatever as a career as an adult when you’re 30 when you’re

50 it’s very difficult to do if you’re still charging people 100 bucks a month I mean it’s not it’s not so I just like to see people charging a decent amount because it means that well then you’re earning decent money so you’re more likely to stick around it and view it as

A career you then get with better you become better Coach and then you stick around you don’t go and get some random corporate job like most other coaches do so I just like to see that off the bat that he’s charging a decent amount um

He’s been an XPR now as far as I way he doesn’t have any sort of sport Science degree or or science undergrad um but he has a big experience being coached and as a professional athlete so he’s been through teamgb then he’s been through World Tour teams so

He’s Alex would have had at least 10 coaches over his career more likely more some of them were probably good based on the stories he’s told some of them are probably quite bad so he terms in of experience that’s a lot of knowledge to draw on um so that’s valuable having that he

Was also what he’s got going for him he wasn’t just a super talented Rider who kind of got through he was obviously relatively talented but it sounds like from his career he always had to work quite hard and try different things so he would

Have learned a lot along the way so I do think that has value the I mean the only thing that would be that gives you the only thing is that gives you one aspect The Experience um without the Sports Science Background does he have an ability to pull the good all the

Good bits out of that filter out all the bad bits he would have learned over the decades with here at teamgb as a junior who’s coaching you they’re probably they’re probably not that good so has he been able to filter out a lot of that

That’s what I I’m not sure um but I mean he’s miles ahead of if in the coaching industry he he’s already miles ahead of plenty of other coaches that have no experience no qualifications so he’s he’s he’s ahead there it’s kind of interesting what you said about the the

Professionalism of this cycling coaching industry and that was sort of where I was headed with it because you know is he a good coach I don’t know like who do I how how do I ask this like where’s the where’s the choice.com or you know some sort of um accreditation is not the

Right word because you can you know ultim go and get the the levels and that sort of stuff but but does a level three coach therefore make you better than the level two coach well maybe I I’m not sure but yeah that’s that’s that’s a real challenge for that

Industry is to give it almost give it some legitimacy it needs a needs a like a framework like a governing body or something that actually certifies you yeah yeah I mean they I mean o but o cycling has a has an a qualification process which is is it better than

Nothing not really I would say because really anyone can pass it you’ve got it’s not the standards are so low that it really doesn’t mean anything if you’re qualified by British cycling or o cycling so that exists but it’s not really worth anything there’s got to be majorly talented Juniors who have

Just had a bad coach who never fully reached I mean whatever that happen got to be you can see we can we know you can I can name people if want um that’s the thing though with coaches you don’t unless they’re putting information out you’re not going to know really if they’re any

Good or not even based on who they’ve coached it’s not really um the only thing Alex has one of the things Alex has going from is he has put out he has a YouTube channel he’s public so he’s public facing so you he’s chatted about

Training so you can kind of get an idea at least to some level there there are a lot of coaches out there where it’s they’re basically entirely Anonymous yeah um so he’s got that going for him I the only thing I guess from a business

Point of view which I look at um a lot of these things is is this just a a flash in the pan popup thing or is this something he’s looking at as a career to do you know after being pro is he really want to lock into this others have done

It like Tom Danielson runs a a coaching business um there’s other Pros out there that do it and they stick with it which I like um so yeah we yet to be seen with this I just don’t really like the if they if they pop up and then they just

They’re doing a bunch six other things and then it just disappears just back to this new bike thing I just don’t understand you Chris okay you had the factor you posted about the factor or photos with the factor then got annoyed that people were mess you messaging you

About the factor asking if it was any good now you got sell which okay they’re letting you ride the frame so they’re giving you a bit of a hand but now it’s kind of a groundhog day now people are asking you about the cello why do you what’s the deal here

Isn’t this just the same thing over again you called me out Jesse yes uh so the I put a photo up on Instagram yeah it’s it’s funny because so my I hadn’t thought about it like that but when I got sent that picture by Cas after they

Built the bike and I thought it’s like this dorky picture it’s like normally you see like new bikee day pictures it’s the bike in this this beautiful surrounding and I just sort of s saw this photo and I was dressed like a dorky dad and I was standing next to

This super bike and I thought it was kind of funny and so I put that up but then the reaction so there’s two reactions so there’s our audience which is amazing which is like this it’s like everyone’s just taking the piss out of me with in jokes from the show that

Have been going on for the last 18 months so ref who it’s like who can reference the most um historical in joke that we’ve had on the show is like an Instagram comment somewhere down the somewhere down the line you know holding its speed all this kind of stuff so it’s

Just sort of kind of funny but clearly it then sort of those sort of posts go out of those bubbles and they go into the new bike day Bubbles and so then you get the people with you know fire emojis and and all this kind of stuff and it’s

A bit embarrassing like it actually is I I actually ultimately was kind of embarrassed by that yeah not not our audience which is just yeah it’s just so funny it’s brilliant out of curiosity if you went and bought this at a local bike shop what’s this retailing for this

Setup you would not be coming away with much change from 17 18,000 Australian dolls or okay so this is where I I find interesting that well mainly that you posted the the photo really I want to know how you feel because you are now an ambassador for an $188,000 bike

Which already has the most successful World Tour a team riding it how do you sleep at night you degenerate shill uh it’s embarrassing yeah it actually is no you you you I I was embarrassed by I I I would not no I I do feel that way actually um I shouldn’t I

Don’t feel like I should have I was not just that picture like we get on here and we talk about it and we we take apart I feel like I feel more comfortable doing that with an 18,000 I could do that with a $40,000 bike I

Don’t care we can we can go into the nuances of it but you’re dead right like buying into the the the frothy Instagram froth it’s it’s a look I agree and the photo that particular photo which I thought was just like funny like he’s a do standing next to a hot bike but

But yeah I I and I I I’ve just broke the table I’m totally jealous of you in this I said this the other day you have this I don’t want I don’t care no just going to and ride my old bike and you a little

Part of you it’s okay a lot of it’s just you can’t be bothered whatever but a little part of you is is doing it because you feel that there is a consumerism to all this that is disgusting like it is it isn’t it’s bad for humans it’s bad for the environment

It’s it’s all that kind of stuff and I’m very jealous of your attitude in that and when you call me out on it and I remember you called me after I put that photo up I was like ah he’s proba I was surprised you po I’m like wow suddenly Chris is the S5

Guy look at um no you’re dead right and especially because it’s not like they paid you I’d feel way more comfortable if they did pay me yeah be like yep here it is just it’s just my job and I just got paid to do it yep and yeah they put

Up the most cash and go for it I mean p talk and Joe when they were talking about the show they were like Jesse just calls it as it is and Chris is like obsessed with Brands and gets over the top hey he’s totally just called me out

And I’ve just lived up to that you know so he’s got that Dynamic dead R shout peek Merry Christmas but I will say just to finish this off oh it is cool to ride an S5 though the one thing that made me feel made me feel one one thing that sort of

Tempered that again is this like the piss of our audience in those comments just ripping me made me feel much better about the whole thing that our audience are on in in on the joke as opposed to that it wasn’t just flame emojis oh yeah it’s like I can’t

Wait to can’t wait to see how that holds the SP like that that audience like I just love that like keep taking the piss out of me every time I post something about it all right Jesse I think that’s us done this week do you want to mention

Anything about a potential guest show coming up do you want to give any insight into that do we want to I think you should I think is all right I think this is um it was it was a we won’t spoil too much you’re going to have a

Bit of work to do in the edit because the the guest we had that we already recorded but will be coming up uh English was was his first language and was quite technical we will say so we’ll take a bit of editing and sort of cleaning up to get things to flow well

Magic Jes right crystal do is Magic um but I I am I’m just excited for this guest particularly because it helps push back against one of the main strings of criticism that the show gets which is that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you always get things wrong blah blah blah

So we have a guest on that contributes to the space for the all the all the P talk people that watch us that are into your technological measurements and your analytics and things you’re going to enjoy the next guest so we are yeah doing something in that space too it’s

Not all this banter and talk I’m excited yeah I am too I’m excited all right well uh until then and then so the week so that’ll be next week when we do our regular show I got so much to get into based on the guest episode that’s

Coming up so this is now going to span about three three weeks of stuff because there’s a whole bunch to get into all righty until then see you next week Al feed is Inen