In this episode of the Altium OnTrack Podcast, join host Zach Peterson as he sits down with Lorenzo Conti, Founder and Managing Director of Crover. Discover how Crover is making waves in agriculture with their pioneering locomotion technology in granular materials.
From swimming through bulk solids to monitoring grain storage conditions, Lorenzo sheds light on how Crover’s robot is transforming the grain storage market. Learn about the social and environmental impact, reducing losses, preventing infestations, and improving the overall efficiency of the grain supply chain. If you’re interested in the intersection of robotics, hardware, and agritech, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to explore the future of sustainable agriculture and the exciting innovations happening at Crover.
0:00 Intro
0:59 What Crover Does
2:33 Background in Farming?
3:48 Why Pursue Robotics in This Area?
6:11 Bad Storage and Losses
7:50 Other Markets and Food Products
8:58 Huge Potential
9:26 Larger Items?
11:15 How Do Farmers Receive Data?
13:21 What the Data Attempts to Predict
15:04 How Farmers Use the Data
16:37 How Technical Do the Users Want the Data?
18:27 Smaller Farmers?
19:38 Farmers in Developing Countries?
21:36 Working with Government or Nonprofits?
22:39 Overall User and Investor Response?
24:23 Scaling Challenges
27:14 Investor Relations
30:09 Cost of Deploying in Developing Countries
32:48 Where Does Crover Go Next?
35:03 Outro
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Learn More about Lorenzo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lconti/?originalSubdomain=uk
Learn more about Crover: https://www.crover.tech/
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#AgricultureInnovation #GrainStorage #SustainableTech
– Yeah, and that’s a lot of people that could be fed with food that would otherwise just get thrown away essentially, or thrown into a landfill. – Yeah, and I mean that, that’s, you know, the social and environmental impact of, you know, helping feed a growing population, reducing the kind of impact of
The supply chain on carbon emissions as well is a big reason why we decided to start with the grain storage market rather than other less sustainable markets, let’s say, where our technology could be very well applied to. – Hello everyone and welcome to the Altium OnTrack Podcast. I’m your host, Zach Peterson. Today we’re speaking with Lorenzo Conti, Founder and CEO of Crover. Crover was just recently admitted to the Altium Startup Program, and we’re very happy to have Lorenzo here with us today to talk about his company.
Lorenzo, thank you so much for joining us. – Thank you, Zach. Delighted to be here. – So, as a startup, you’re working in an interesting area, which is agriculture. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about what your company does and what problems you’re trying to solve in the area of agriculture.
– So at Crover, we are pioneering locomotion in granular materials. So anything from sand dunes to grains stored in silos and sheds. And the latter has really been our focus so far. So we’ve been developing around our Crover robot that is able to swim through assemblies of bulk solids and powders.
We have developed a grain storage management system that checks the condition of grain as the robot is moving through it. Things like temperature, moisture, to identify hotspot and wet spots early, helping prevent infestations like molds and insects, also steering the grain, which helps maintain the quality of the grain and collecting physical samples
At depth from wheat in the bulk, which sole jobs at the moment farmers have to do primarily manually. Wheat also, the risk involved of working on those bulks, which can lead to grain entrapment or engulfment, which can be fatal. – Grain entrapment sounds like a very academic way
To describe being crushed under grain. – Yeah, there’s a few movies from back in the years where, you know, you’d have horrible deaths that way. But yeah, it’s definitely not a nice way to go. And… – So for anyone that builds a company focusing on, you know, technology solutions for farming
And agriculture, I always wonder, or I just have to ask, do you have a background in farming and is this how you became aware of some of these issues that could be solved with technology? – So, myself directly, my main background is in the field of granular materials
Or granular physics, which is what I, generically speaking, my PhD at the University of Edinburgh was on. If you wanna go way back, my grandfather used to sell German tractors in the north of Italy and had a mill in Emilia-Romagnaa. We got other people on the team with kind of, you know,
Much deeper farming background than myself. For instance, our Non-Executive Director John, who is the leading author of the HGCA Grain Storage Guide and the Safe Storage Calculator, which is the main tools that farmers in the UK follow when storing their grain. – Okay, so not directly working on a farm,
But still exposed to it enough to have an understanding of some of the challenges that are present in the field. – Yeah, definitely. – And this is interesting because, you know, you brought up robotics and among some of the agriculture startups I’ve seen,
Especially here in the US, robotics tends to be, you know, a big focus, but it’s usually around the area of like harvest and not necessarily around like monitoring of the conditions of the things that they harvest. So they kind of, you know, focus more on, you know,
Like picking apples, that kind of thing, and building robotics for that. Why did you, just from a business standpoint, why did you prefer to go into this other area where it’s like storage and management and monitoring? – Well, in our case, it’s mostly because we saw a niche where
We add technology that, you know, only we add and we could provide, you know, significant improvements over a very old style way of managing grains, which is using hand spears or static sensors. And which hasn’t really changed significantly for the last, you know, 20 or 30 years.
And so it, it was mostly kind of hinging on our competitive advantage of our unique technology and, you know, where it could be applied. But I think that there’s also the fact that, you know, like you said, a lot of farming and, you know, robotics startup, they’re focused in the field
Because that’s where farmers are typically used to spending large amounts of money. But as, you know, we move towards improving efficiency across the entirety of the grain supply chain there are, you know, significant other steps of the supply chain where inefficiency become more evident as other steps like, you know,
Like cropping and so on, start having more solutions. And also there’s a lot of competition in there, right? But at the moment, if we look at the kind of midstream of the supply chain, so after harvest, before consumption, grain storage is really where, you know, it’s still the single step
With the largest losses generally. – So given that there are those losses, I think it’s natural for anyone to ask, and especially for an investor to ask how much loss does adverse storage conditions create each year? So, or I guess, what’s the potential cost savings? – Yeah, it varies a lot.
I mean, the average globally is about 20%, but that’s significantly skewed by the situation in developing countries where, you know, there’s often not proper storage present. If we look at, you know, places like the US, it usually tends to vary between like kind of 2% and 15%,
But even like the lowest end of that range, if we think about, you know, kind of the large storage infrastructure where you have multiple millions of grain in storage per shed or per silo, you know, even a one or 2% kind can often mean, you know, tens or hundreds of thousands of losses.
– Yeah, and that’s a lot of people that could be fed with food that would otherwise just get thrown away essentially, or thrown into a landfill. – Yeah, and I mean that’s, you know, the social and environmental impact of, you know, helping feed a growing population,
Reducing the kind of impact of that supply chain on carbon emissions as well is a big reason why we decided to start with the grain storage market rather than other less sustainable markets, let’s say, where our technology could be very well applied to. – Well, what are some of those other markets,
Or I guess what are other food products where the same approach towards monitoring and management could be taken? – Well, food products, I mean, anything that is, you know, granular in nature, usually we tend to focus on like kind of non-processed grain and pulses,
But it could be used also on like kind of feed pellets, or cocoa beans, you know, you name it. But technically we could apply it to most types of bulk solids and powders. So whether it is, you know, mineral bulks, chemical powder, say for the, you know, chemical or pharmaceutical industry as well.
I mean that’s probably one thing that people don’t realize a lot because it’s not a type of material that is often talked about, but bulks solids and powders represent the most traded, you know, family of commodities, let’s say worldwide. So it’s a very, a big field that just, you know,
Just one that a lot of people, I mean, you know, that are not in the sector really often hear about. – Well, if on average you’re addressing about 10% of the largest, you know, class of traded commodities worldwide, that’s gotta be a huge total addressable market value, – We think so.
I mean, we’re still a early stage start up so we are, you know, we are aware of the potential. We’re just kind of, you know, going through that journey of raising awareness and, you know, establishing our product into the market. – So how does the monitoring approach change
If you start talking about larger solids, like, you know, I understand with grain, it’s, you know, smaller granules, that makes sense. But what if you go to, let’s say nuts or maybe you even go to fruit, like, you know, apples. Could you use the same system on those types of foods?
– So with soft fruits and vegetables, we don’t deal with those because they tend to be more susceptible to damage. So even small forces can damage those kind of things. And also they tend to be stored in boxes rather than loose bulks. With our type of system, it’s, you know, usually makes sense
If you’ve got a loose bulk, let’s say. So whether it’s a loose bulk in a warehouse or a shed, in a silo, or, you know, even outdoors, I mean, for instance, in Australia they tend to use a lot bankers as they call them and just kind of tarp them on the top.
So, you know, but if it’s kind of smaller containers, then, you know, our robot robot cannot jump from one box to the other really. It’s mostly made to move through granular materials, which is where also other technologies don’t really work. So I think there’s other solutions more suitable
If you’ve got boxes or bags, but if you’ve got a loose bulk, other things wouldn’t really be able to move in there and we can. – Well, I mean, you bring up jumping between boxes for fruits. What if you, you know, attach some rotors to it,
Made it a quadcopter, it could fly between different boxes. – Yeah, I mean, a hybrid in the future would be an interesting idea. We’ve, you know, it’s definitely something that we’ve thought of before, but I think right now the focus is on, you know, continuing to improve,
You know, our our core type of robot. – So I’m gonna assume this robot is going around, it’s gathering data, it’s sending that data out to farmers somehow. How does the data get back to the farmers so that they can make some sort of meaningful decision about whether to modify storage conditions,
Dispose of some of the material, maybe move it, I don’t know what they would do, but how do they then take that data and make some decision based on it? Are they getting it through like a phone app? Are they getting it off of a website?
– So we usually provide a little data transfer SIM card that is kind of, you know, in the robo control, which then sends that data to our secure cloud hosted on AWS as most people. And then all of that data can be visualized through our web app.
So through, you know, which can be accessed through an internet connected device is, you know, can be viewed on mobile, tablet, or desktop. And there they can see, you know, like kind of the maps or conditions for each time step or day where the data was taken, how it’s varied over time
And also notifications for the various storage units and sites that they have, in case any measurement that is taken exceeds a safe threshold, meaning that, you know, it’s usually an indication of either a problem being present or an early onset of a potential infestation.
So a big thing of what we’re doing is trying to enable accurate integrated pest management, which means accurately controlling the temperature and the moisture of that grain and keeping those parameters, wheat in safe thresholds with which pests cannot grow. So if you identify those problems early,
You can, you know, manage things in a way that means that infestations will not grow, will not develop and so your grain, you know, the quality of your grain will be maintained. – So really you’re looking at, I guess a few different things, right? One of them is pests, which you just mentioned.
It sounds like the consequence of moisture would be mold. And then I would imagine there’s also a possibly a third route, which is just spoilage over time. Is there anything else specifically that you’re looking at or trying to predict through all this data that you’re capturing?
– Yeah, that’s one of the things, I mean, we’re still in the early stages of like kind of building more, you know, prediction algorithms and so on, which is one of the big plans that we’ve got at the moment. In that sense, the system is quite, basically we collect the data
And then if temperature, moisture values are too high or too low, then we give a warning. But there’s more, you know, analytics and recommendations that could be provided. We, you know, we’ve been focusing on the core functionality so far. But yes, I mean both temperature and moisture,
Usually if you’ve got the wrong combination of those two, then things can go wrong. Like, you know, if like it’s about making sure that you don’t create the kind of environment where, you know, ’cause pest are biological entities in the end, you know? They’ll come from the field with some amount of eggs
Or spored and if it’s both too hot and too wet, these things will grow. You know, at a, you know, at a certain temperature you might, you know, if the temperature is high, you’ll need a lower moisture before these things can grow. If the temperature is lower,
The moisture will need to be added before they can grow. Like it is usually a correlation between those two. It’s not just one parameter. – I see, I see. Okay. So you’re actually doing all of this prediction on the backend in your AWS instance, serving that to farmers. I’m gonna imagine that
That what they’re looking at on screen is something that’s simple enough to where they can say, “Yeah, I’m gonna ignore this”, or “I agree, this makes sense, I need to adjust my humidity in the storage container, or I need to adjust temperature by X amount”
And then they can continue on their day as normal. – Yeah, we’ve experienced that different people tend to like kind of different levels of complexity and detail, let’s say. So they can go as top level or as in detail into our platform as they like in the end.
You know, the most basic level is just getting the notification and you know, focusing on those early only. And the other one is kind of going into the more detail maps, starting with like the 2D maps that we provide. And then, you know, kind of the cooler feature on the app
Is more the 3D maps that we can show. So you can like kind of navigate through the bulk and say, “Okay, I’ve got a hotspot here, a wet spot there.” But we realize that, you know, 3D maps, they tend to be a little bit, you know,
Some people find them a little bit complicated even though they’re not for us as engineers, but you know, we totally understand the kind of user side, which is why we’re providing these various levels of complexity. – Yeah, see that’s what I was wondering is really how technically deep the users like to get
For that reason you just mentioned, right? For us, as, you know, people who deal with technical things all the time, I think it’s easy to understand what’s going on when you look at a 3D map, but you know, maybe a farmer who doesn’t have the kind of, you know,
Technical background dealing with data like that, they may look at that and say, “What the heck is this? What am I supposed to do with this?” – Yeah, I mean that’s actually something that I realized recently while, you know, we were going around
Some sites in the US with some people that you know, didn’t fully come from an agriculture background, that I think like a lot of people don’t realize that grain storage sites, you know, at least the the larger ones, they tend to be the kind of industrial site where they’ve got, you know, dashboards,
You know, some of them might be quite outdated, but you know, they’ve got dashboards with a lot of data around and they tend to be used with like, you know, dealing with, with data and kind of, you know, processes. I mean they often tend to have like SCADA systems
Controlling, you know, different parts of the process, especially if they’re doing processing on site as well. So it’s not always like kind of the, you know, farmer not used to data type of situation. Like more often than not the type of size
That would adopt our type of solution are the kind of places that if anything, they’ve got too many platforms, and they wanna kind of converge them all into one. Which is also why we’ve got a beta version of our API whereby people can feed the data from our system into their existing system.
– Okay. So I mean, is there a solution here also for the smaller farmer, maybe the family farmer that has to handle storage for a short amount of time before they ship off to a larger processor? – It depends how much screen they have in the end.
You know, it’s a kind of cost versus benefit and rise analysis I think in the end. If they’ve got, you know, a significant amount of grain in storage, say, usually we recommend, I mean, where it really start getting like big arrow eyes is if they’ve got like 20,000 tons, you know,
Metric tons of grain in storage or more than it’s almost a definite yes if they got less, usually between like kind of 3000 to 20,000 tons. It depends on the specific situation. So yeah, so in the US and North America typically, you know,
A lot of farms will be at that kind of levels where we are based, So we’re based in Edinburgh and Scotland. You know, in the UK and Europe, it tends to be more centralized storage operators like green merchants, comparatives and port operators. – So you mentioned earlier that the losses
That are experienced during storage tend to be skewed towards developing countries. Did I have that right? – Well, they’re higher in developing countries, yes. – Right. So what are some of the challenges that farmers in developing countries face when they’re trying to adopt a system like this?
Or do they even see a system like this as something that is number one, valuable for them, or number two, that they can really access and use and understand? – Yeah, probably the, you know, big challenge there is the access to capital to make the large upfront capital investment
That it takes to set up a proper storage infrastructure. You know, whether it is a proper, you know, side of facility or something else. And yeah, so, you know, the prevalence of proper storage in those areas is just much, much lower. Also there, there’s a lot of geographies like India
Where, you know, they’re not a developing country, but there’s significant losses because they are historically more used to storing grain or rice in bags. So you put them in bags, you leave them in storage, you’ll still be in a warehouse, but you, you pack the bags on top of each other
And next to each other, you leave them in there for several months and you have no, not really any way of accessing, you know, what’s going on in there. So, you know, it is also about kind of sometimes, you know, like making systemic changes towards better and more modern practices.
Sometimes people are just used to doing things in a certain way and getting them to change, it takes time, – You know, usually when there’s a problem with technology adoption in a developing country and that adoption is related to an issue with access to capital, usually the government steps up
Or a nonprofit steps up and tries to do something to encourage investment or apply or provide the investment directly. Have you considered working with governments or nonprofits to try and solve that problem? – Yes, we have, I mean, because of our stage at the moment, we don’t wanna stretch ourselves too thin.
So we’re, you know, we’re focusing on the local markets and kind of more profitable markets, but because of the, you know, potential for even greater social benefit in those areas, we love to be able to start something there. So if the right opportunity comes along, you know,
Whether it’s the right NGO or government, we love to partner to do some work there. – So what has been the overall response, positive or negative from users? And then what has been the overall response, positive or negative from potential investors? – From users?, you know, very positive.
We often find like kind of we’ve got a bit managed expectations ’cause we’ve had over time a lot of people that wanna have the system with them. And we don’t have the, the capacity to make too many robots yet. So we’ve just been working with kind of few selected partners,
But we’re, you know, we are getting ready to, you know, fill in some months be able to offer robots to some of the people that have been asking us for them. In terms of investors, I mean we, you know, we focus mostly on kind of the product and the market.
We’ve sort of half bootstrapped in a wave until we raised via equity crowd funding and angel money. But yeah, we haven’t gone down the VC route so far. From what we’ve seen, I mean, the investment in the agriculture sector is a little bit kind of older style.
It’d be great if there was more, you know, more funds kind of ready to take big leaps at a early stage like there is for software or biotech. So I think, yeah, that’s probably one of the kind of slowing down forces in agriculture innovation. Just the absence of kind of, you know,
Strong forward thinking funds. – You know, my understanding of agriculture and at least on the farming side is that, you know, the margins are pretty thin. And so I think that perception that it’s maybe not a big money, high margin type of business or industry might dissuade the typical software or tech VC
From being willing to invest in this space. The prior startups that I’ve been seeing, at least with like harvesting robotics, they have all gone through the equity crowdfunding route to try and, you know, go through series A after some, you know, and they get started through,
You know, an an angel or they bootstrap it. And I think it’s hard for them to overcome those perceptions and get money from VCs, especially when VCs, you know, are so focused on stuff like social media, Facebook, it’s just a web platform. It’s easy to scale, there’s no hardware.
Eventually you get it big enough to where the margin is so huge that they can make 10X, 100X. I mean, for them a 10X day is not a good day and they still made out like bandits. So, you know, what do you… I think that underscores the challenge
That a company like yours has trying to convince investors to come into this space. Would you agree? – Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think it’s just that the, you know, leading VC model is, like you said, more crafted around things that move really fast in the early stages
And then, you know, either continue scaling or fail, or you know, or anything in between. I think in terms of scaling, you know, there’s definitely a big opportunity but in the kind of at the intersection of hardware, robotics and agritech, which is where we’re in,
But it requires a bit more patience, you know, just to get to like the scale and the potential is there, it’s just obviously VCs, they wanna see like kind of big numbers soon and you need probably like kind of funds that understand more the space
And know how it moves and know what the cycle looks like that don’t expect like a cycle that resembles a kind of softer one. So, you know, obviously the fund needs to be kind of crafted a bit differently around that. And I think hopefully we can start a bit more
The cycle of, you know, money being made in the space, which hopefully will then create more and more funds in the space. And I think just historically we haven’t had enough of that happening as much as there has been in other sectors. And I think that that’s really what is needed
To, you know, for that to happen. – Well, related to funding, one thing I’ve also been seeing recently is not just equity crowdfunding focusing on things like ESG, but also there are some funds popping up that are focused on ESG, doing right by the planet. Those kinds of themes.
I just don’t think that they’re, you know, Sequoia capital or any of these, you know, huge names that have, you know, funded Facebook and those kinds of companies. Have you tried talking to them and, you know, is the ESG environmental angle, you know, working for you guys
To get both user interest as well as investor interest? – Yeah, I mean, we haven’t kind of actively been, you know, to focus on the investment play, let’s say. I mean we’ve, you know, we’ve mostly just spoken to people that reached out to us and I think that kind of continuous flow
Of like kind of inbound requests has really been our main driving factor. You know, mostly from a market perspective but also from an investment perspective. So even the equity crowdfunding route came up because we had a kind of initial group of kind of, let’s say corner store investors that wanted to invest.
We knew we needed a little bit more money and we realized okay, or other people made us realize that okay, the crowdfunding investment route was a way to expand up on that, you know, that investment base. But yeah, I think it’s just one of those things that like,
You know, we’ve got a team of 13 people, which seems like a lot now. It’s taken quite a bit of time to get to the point, but like kind of leading all the kind of operations and commercial side is really just myself and another team member.
And we also help out on the technical side. So if we had to spend, you know, if we had to go and focus on the investment, you know, seeking investment, it’d probably set us back on a lot of other things. We probably lose other opportunities
And you know, we just wanna kind of ensure we’ve got a good balance. So if the right investors come along, you know, we’re always happy to speak with people. But, you know, so far we haven’t felt like it was worthwhile just really focusing on that and also, you know,
We’ve been in a way trying to make it happen like kind of more the bootstrapping way ’cause we feel that that leaves us with a bit more freedom and flexibility. – Well, I think that’s understandable and I like that you’re focusing on the product first instead of the money first.
– Well, (indistinct) get to other things. Yes. – Well, that’s fair, that’s fair. (chuckles) One thing I wanna go back to briefly is just about deployment in developing countries. The cost point for your system, the cost point for technology, you know, it can vary but it’s seen as an investment, right?
The whole point of investing in a system like this is to see positive ROI through reduction in losses, right? Pretty simple model. Does the cost point for your system make the technology attractive for use in developing countries? I mean, I ask that because if they have trouble getting capital,
Building a facility that where just the facility itself could reduce loss, how can they justify getting technology that’s also gonna reduce loss? – Yeah, I mean the way we’ve set our pricing model at the moment, it’s almost too cheap for a lot of geographies.
But for, you know, a lot of developing areas like you said, you know, where the batches are not the same, it’s, you know, it would be a significant investment for them. Potentially one that, you know, most people there can make, which is, you know,
Also one of the reasons why we’ve been focusing on kind of, you know, more profitable markets let’s say. So that’s a bit of a barrier for us as well in terms of doing more work there ’cause we as early stage company, you know, we’ve been putting a lot of our own resources
Into what we’re doing as well. You know, we, unfortunately don’t have enough funds to go and give robots at a loss. But, you know, we’ve got some plans to make that happen. I mean one, one plan that we’ve got is kind of more aligned with like, kind of the circular economy is to,
Because we are focusing also on a subscription model where we sort of lease the hardware. One plan that we’ve got is to, you know, after X number of years with the robots being in the field, once they come back, you know, and clients get upgraded to a new one,
To refurbish those and offer them for a much lower price to, you know, to customers like those in developing countries where, you know, where their ability to pay is lower. And we think that, you know, that’s probably kind of the primary way in which we think
We could make it much more affordable for them and, you know, bring a more social benefit. – I’m gonna ask you one last question, just kind of looking to the future for the company. Where do you guys go next? Because you’re doing robotics, you’re doing data capture, delivering that to farmers.
Where do you go next with the technology and what are some of the other areas that you’re targeting with this approach? – I mean there’s a lot that could said. – And if you can’t tell me, that’s okay, because we don’t wanna, you know, reveal secret sauce before it’s ready.
– Yeah, I wouldn’t even know where to start ’cause there’s a lot that could be said there. I mean, the focus right now is really kind of making the old system more robust and ready and ready to scale, including kind of getting more and more certifications completed so that we can sell
In more markets and to more types of customers. But yeah, from the technology side, we have quite a significant amount of staff in the pipeline. Adding more sensing capabilities. I mean, we were talking about temperature, moisture, there’s some other obvious ones that we’re planning to add in the short term like CO2 measurements.
And we’ve got a bit of like longer term projects that we’ve been working on, for instance, try to detect mycotoxin and, you know, well, different types of mycotoxins, like kind of low pars per billion and protein content. But those, you know, those are a lower TRL
And so they’re gonna need a bit more time. Yeah, we talked about kind of data analytics and, you know, providing recommendations and so on. I mean obviously, you know, we’re talking about Altium and there’s a lot on the electronic side that we’re trying to improve as well. We’ve got five custom design boards
On the system that, you know, we kind of developed from scratch using the software. And we’ve got a lot of ideas for the next iterations of those and new ones. So there’s, you know, we’re lucky enough to have a really smart team that is always thinking ahead,
But we gotta make sure we, you know, we prioritize on the most important features. – Sure, sure. Well, I do wish you the best of luck and as all of this stuff rolls out, we’d love to have you come back on to discuss the progress you’re making.
– Thank you, Zach. – Thank you very much. To everyone out there listening, we’ve been talking with Lorenzo Conti, Founder and CEO of Crover. If you’re watching on YouTube, make sure to hit the like button and hit the Subscribe button. You’ll be able to keep up with all of our tutorials
And episodes as they come out. And last but not least, don’t stop learning, stay on track, and we’ll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.