Welcome to episode 7 of Next Level Finance. Over the course of this series, Zee Razaq, (MD of Certax Accounting St Albans district) will be talking to some of the most influential entrepreneurs in the market right now. They’ll be giving the deep-dive into their stories, how they came to success, and what tips they would give to anyone pursuing their dreams. By the end of this series you should have a clear vision of how YOU can achieve financial freedom. And we mean true financial freedom.
In this episode we talked with John Howard, who needs no introduction to those of you in the property world. He’s been working with property since the age of 18 and has a vast amount of knowledge in the area.
Today we’ll be diving deep into John’s story – from childhood all the way up to current day. This is an episode you won’t want to miss.
You can learn more about John here:
www.johnhowardproperty.com
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And I was bottom of the class and uh there’s no no way get around that you know you have to accept the fact that people are brighter than you um but that Spurs you on as well because you think Christ how am I going to make any money
I can’t go to university I’m I’m not I’m virtually unemployable I need to yeah I need to kick on Hi everyone my name is z razac and we’ve got a special episode seven if I get this right oh did six there you’re an accountant you should get it right I love that that’s what I’m talking about even in the intro the audience are going to get involved because of John um this
Is going to be a special edition around our next level Finance podcast and we’re going to give an intro into what this is going to be giving us huge value and we’ve got the legendary John Howard who loves me calling him that he only calls me that because I’m old no it’s because
He’s wise and this is what’s going to be a difference in this one get ready for the huge value thank you so much for watching thank you for making it John it’s a pleasure it’s you always humble us uh with your presence and the knowledge that you give and I always
Like meeting people like John who are one of the industry uh leaders experts in property there’s not many of them running around and everyone watches me knows that I don’t blow smoke up someone’s you know where for no reason so we are here to make sure we add value
Illustrate John’s Journey which is going to be hugely valuable and I love listening to entrepreneurs like John so John are you ready for the roller coaster of the next level Finance podcast I’m ready I love it I love it and when he smiles you know he’s ready
Right we’re going to start with first of all ay um the audience always want to know a bit about the person and what made them who they are what have they learn in their Journey so we’re going to start with some personal challenges because people love that and one of the
Things that I didn’t actually know until we have in the chat earlier and you gave me a bit of insight you know you tell me a little bit going to bring it out and our next level Finance podcast you said you had a stutter and a Stam yeah
Stutter and a stammer yeah and and very interestingly to what age was that uh up to 19 um wow but my my um school life really started um so I stammered people don’t know why you stammer yeah but even now the stammering society I went to see them quite recently and they depressed
Me a little bit because I said well you still stammer I said no I don’t they said yes you do you just avoid the words that make you stammer and um if you’re a stammerer uh you don’t stammer when you sing you don’t stammer when you rhyme you don’t stammer when you
Shout um so I think it’s to do with breathing and and confidence as well and a lot of stamas um academically don’t do very well at school and that brings me really to my school days so I was good at sport thank goodness any particular sport um football rugby I played for the
County at rugby had some football trials that sort of stuff um but interestingly I I I was at a boarding school and the reason I was at a boarding school was because my grand my grandfather had a shoe shop uh in Mansfield and he had two boys come into
The shop to buy shoes and in those days a good pair of shoes was a was a wages average wage one month’s wages for a minor was a good pair shoes in 19 40 whatever it was and he was so impressed with his two boys that went to Gresham
School in Norfolk that he vowed he would save enough money with my grandmother to put into a Tru asked so all three of he had no grandchildren at the time but he had one daughter and the all all three of us in the end went to private school
Because of him and his and and my grandmother right so he he saved enough money in a trust for us all to go to to private school boarding school so um but when you’ve got red hair and you stammer and you’re at boarding school that’s a tough gig and and what it does
Do it it it it mold your character so because everyone you know takes the mick out of you and everything else because of the situ and in those days you know there was no getting away from it like you know like these days things things
Have changed for the for the good by the way um so you just have to put up with it and and it molds your character to to be affable and and relatively easygo goinging and be able to laugh at yourself and I think that’s very important very very important uh and it
Makes you humble as well it’s amazing inside because a lot of entrepreneurs that I’ve met have different challenges and this is people always I’ve realized with entrepreneurs that are be have to be successful find solutions to problems rather than just concentrating the problem they find how can they resolve
It and work it in their favor and that’s what I always when I speak to you you’re always finding solutions to problems and that’s probably one of your major first problem yeah I think I think or challenges yeah I I think I’ve got a reputation for buying difficult projects
And finding solutions for them I don’t want to buy difficult projects by the way it’s just what I get offered there’s more margin in them if you get them right if you get them wrong you’re in trouble so I mean but but what I would say is I think most
Entrepreneurs I’ve met and there’s some super I’m not talking about the super bright ones CU there’s some super super bright entrepreneur out there who have made fortunes um but for a lot of us especially when I started uh which was in a state agency we’ll talk about that
In a minute I know most of us weren’t very bright and actually we didn’t go to university um we had no chance of going to University we needed to do something so you need to sharpen up and find something you could do and most people I most of my friends who weren’t very
Bright or didn’t take life too seriously ended up as state agents to start with and of course the state agency is such a good grounding for being a property investor developer and that’s what’s missing now and and what’s happened is there’s so many more people doing property and they’ve all been educated
And you you can tell they’ve all been educated by these property gurus because of what they come out with and and and that’s one of the reasons which we’ll go on to you later why I started writing my books and so on because I was so fed up with some of the
Not all the education some of the education people were getting let’s unpack some of that I think you mentioned quite a lot so you understand you overcome that well I overcame it but by I didn’t know how how to overcome it really apart from um when I started work
I would wouldn’t answer the phone I didn’t like answering the phone and I would never make a phone call so I wasn’t a lot of good so because I stammered and eventually I got more confident and by the time I was 19 I Le got 17 by time I was
19 um it I believe it virtually 1920 virtually gone yeah but if you talk to the stammering society they’ll say no you still stammer I I wouldn’t even know so I think it has gone and I think it’s confidence and it’s the way you’ve done
That a lot confidence so you at 19 a bit another Milestone year for you you bought your it business it was yeah because my father my father had a he was a green grosser yeah in a small town and then one day he bought an estate agency
Uh so everyone knew him as a green grosser and next day he’s valuing property which is a bit tricky um and he ran it he didn’t buy it to was 60 and he ran it for um eight nine years and and sort of didn’t really need them didn’t
Really need to make a big profit and it was a oneman band and all the rest of it and I went and he’d been ill so I joined him when I was 17 when I could learn to drive left school and um he’d been ill for four months so the business hardly
Any business there and we had a secretary called Mrs ler and in the morning she used to give me spelling tests and she couldn’t believe I was such a bad speller considering they spent so much on my education so it was it you could have you know it and those
Days you course you locked the office up at lunchtime and walked home wow you walked home at lunchtime and then I’d constantly argued my father in front of my mother blesser heart about um you we need to modernize the office we need to do this need to do that and he didn’t
Really want to and anyway and then on my 18th birthday I managed to I saved I already saved a bit of money my mother lent me a little bit of money and the bank manager lent me the diff the balance and I bought two properties were
They your first two my first two at age what age at 18 on my 18th birthday you’re listening to this exclusively John Howard bought his first prop at age 18 on my birth wow on his birthday off a off a property developer who who
Who it it was the end end of a deal if you like so he had two sitting what we have then in those days was sitting tenants he had two sitting tenants left and he just wanted to chop them out so I so so he let me buy them and before I
Bought them though I’d agreed to sell one of them to the tenant at a profit so that happened really quickly which left me the other one virtually with any money owing on it and then so I I then moved on to the next my mother got her money back she
Bought a new kitchen with the money cuz my dad was too tight to buy a kitchen for her so she I don’t need your money now to buy a kitchen I’m buying it myself so and of course if you know if you can borrow I was fortunate you know
You could borrow a bit of money off your off your family um always give them a decent return on their money don’t try and be clever and say well it’s family you shouldn’t have get anything because if you give them a decent return they’ll lend you the money again yeah which is
What my mother did did or we’ll do another one shall we so we did so we did two or three I think I gave her I gave her some interest I think I gave her something like 20% of the deal or I can’t remember now but she was delighted um and um she
Was delighted and then by the time I was 19 we weren’t getting on my father and I in terms of business and um and he wasn’t well either and I he decided to sell sell the business uh for £6,000 Le sold business wasn’t worth what year was this about 198
1979 1980 something like that when I came 81 and and um so so he found a buyer who then wanted me to stay on as a as a as the manager so I thought well that’s crazy and the sale fell through and all I wanted to do was be a property
Developer I knew within two months the state agency is a mugs game really which is a bit of a joke CU now I own fing country and we got the franchise all of norol so we got loads of officers but that’s another story um so then uh so I
So the fa sale fell through he didn’t want to sell it to me because didn’t want me to fail but I had a deal with him and I bought it off him and I changed the name immediately to John how State agents and we doubled the doubled
The turnover the first year doubled it again the second year um and we did okay not brilliantly did okay and I sold it when I was 24 cuz I met a Mr Boyce who uh was what really one of my backers um and I still do deals with his son today
35 years later let’s break at that point so age 19 you bought the business for £6,000 from your father yeah uh you doubled it as you noticed but there was a major life event which uh you’re happy to share with us at age 20 yes um which
You said to me off here your role model your dad and your grandfather were there the role models unfortunately your dad passed away yes he did yes and how did that impact you from someone who you were obviously learning from might have different ways of doing it different I
Mean he was oldfashioned he was he was old in many ways you know he he was old for his age if you like um but but you know he believe he believed in in saving money he didn’t believe in spending money he the tea bags he’d hang them up
And use them again and if you if you wrote on one bit of paper one side of the paper get it out the bin and say hey write on the other side what are you wasting money for so but that’s really good grounding and actually because the business wasn’t making any money because
It we were struggling that’s the best cuz you learn you learn the you you you know you learn the the uh benefits of um of running a tight ship and all the rest of it if you’re doing well you know you you do a development and it’s easy and
Everything goes well you learn nothing you learn nothing of course it’s tough you learn exactly and obviously you have that big major life event yes and I sort of understand this as well from my own experience but how how did that affect you that you had someone who you could
Bounce hiide is whether you age or not age to him leaving being your role model yeah well one of the biggest one of the biggest things was people used to come in and say you know is your dad about no he died two weeks ago you know
You you’ve got to keep the business going you can’t shut the business and you got to keep it all going and it’s a relatively small town felixo which is where where where where my office was and where I lived was born there so where was that in the country sorry fixo
Suffk suff yeah so uh I’m based close by there now so you know that was difficult it was it was a difficult time and of course my mom she was a fair bit younger and I had a younger brother who then decided he didn’t he like to get
Expelled from two schools so I had to deal with that one um and all the rest of it so it was a challenging time but but you know you get through it and and and you grow up and uh you learn you learn more about yourself and so on um
As you did I’m sure yeah no absolutely what was um I guess your number one lesson that you felt when your dad obviously passed away what did you have to do that you didn’t have to do before what was the number one big I think I and you may you may
You may think the same I don’t know but I I felt I had more responsibility to the family I had an older sister so I had to ring her up and say she was in Bermuda at the time um working out there I had to ring up said look dad’s just di
You know you got all that you got to organize a funeral cuz your mom is upset younger brother is too young to do it so you know you end up you end up maturing very quickly I was relatively mature anyway because I was running a business
And all the rest of it uh but you you you just grew up a bit quicker don’t you and uh you know and that’s uh that’s just it’s just how it goes you know there it’s one of those things isn’t it I I know this is a bit
Different but I always try to understand the personal experience as well You’ had those responsibilities but how did it affect you at emotion yourself because the the the issue a lot of people have and this is my experience is that you don’t have time for yourself I agree you
You end up trying to help others because I noticed that’s quite a similarity that we’ve got we naturally try to help others without even thinking about ourselves sometimes which is strange people think well but that’s the lure of certain type of people and those are the experiences that shape you because you
Get put in that position to start thinking that way where but sometimes you still need that time for yourself and how did you make time to grieve to then move forward because you do need that how did you do that I have to say from memory I don’t remember grieving
Um that much I was you know I I you know I was looking up trying to look after family’s best you can and look off themselves a bit as well obviously um running a you know running the business you know is a in one way you’ve got a
Lot on your having a when you have um something happen to you like that you know having something to focus on actually yes is pretty good is a good thing yes and you know I I I needed them I needed the business to survive it was
Early days and you know the fear and and that and I I said to you I’ve always have a a the what drives me on at 61 years old which I can’t believe I’m 61 years old what look it thank you what drives me on is the fear of failure even
Now even now when I’ve got a number of assets and so on it’s the fear of failure the fear of not being able to pay the tax at the end of January or whatever and and the fear of not finding any more deals uh you know they always
Turn up but yeah do you know do you know what I think that’s a common trait and anyone’s watching in the audience U one of the biggest traits that you have to have as an entrepreneur is have that fear of failure and believe me I’ve seen
Anyone who doesn’t have that I I’ll be honest with you you will not be an entrepreneur for that long because that is the Difference Maker because that’s what drives you whatever you’re doing but for me was whatever we do in life with the exams or whatever don’t want to
Fail how am I going to make it happen and I think that’s the yeah I and I use the word make it happen because I I think my wife says I’ve only got one skill and that’s doggy determination which is interesting because I never thought about that but
Actually probably probably right I don’t look at it that I’ve got Dogg determination but actually you know you’ve got to make it happen you’ve got to you know Point you’re sitting there talking about something got to get out there and make it happen I I think your wife uh is probably simplifying your
Skill set because from knowing you I think you got more than just one I think that may be a defining skill because there’s certain traits that decide or uh distinguish people but you need so many and I think we’re going to touch on some of the stuff so you bought the the
Business yeah I want to touch you said you’re academics you went to private school academics no it interests me I worked my I did my best but I was bottom of the class it wasn’t what for you no I just wasn’t very bright and and at the end of
The day there’s two there’s different types of brightness I believe there’s academic brightness I mean read my reading was very poor um had special help with that and so on um and I was bottom of the class and uh there’s no no way get around that you
Know you have to accept the fact that people are brighter than you um but that Spurs you on as well because you Christ how am I going to make any money I can’t go to university I’m I’m not I’m virtually unemployable I need to yeah I need to
Kick on and um a lot of the people of my generation property developers of my generation were very similar they’re very similar they they’re not particularly bright they’ve got a they’ve got a um a smartness to them if you like um Street credy sort of smartness to them but they’re not
Academically bright and I do wonder where the young entrepreneurs property entrepreneurs coming from there’s a lot of people doing rent to rent and all this type of stuff but they don’t see many actual developers coming through yeah which is interesting I you know I I uh I don’t know many and of course
That’s one of the reasons why we started the property graduate which we’ll talk about later I know I I want to just unpack what you said because I think it’s so important I I I’ve got slightly different view on what you define as brightness because being bright doesn’t mean being academically strong because
I’ve met and and there someone who’s gone all the way being fortunate humble to do that it doesn’t Define if you’re bright because I’ve seen so many people have gone all the way in academic but they’ve got no business sense no common sense and that’s not defined how good
You are at doing exams and that is how good are you building relationships how good are you communicating and I I think we get um caught up in society and I’m not knocking education cuz I’m a big advocate of it but there’s so many different ways to be suc
What I def as bright because the brightness for me is is the the lights on I would also say that there’s people who have got a fantastic job because they’re so because they’re so clever and they don’t need to be entrepreneurs you know they don’t need to because they’ve
Got a super job great they’ve got loads of money coming in they they don’t need to take a risk half them are never taking a risk in their lives and you don’t need to great it’s not a problem so we’re all different I I I think you’re absolutely right um I I think
We’re a bit I guess entrepreneurs are a bit unusual because they’re Risk Takers yes and you have to be if I think if you want to be a successful entrepreneur we should get tax breaks for that should we really for love it love it we should do
Because because you know we even we we are employing people either directly or indirectly absolutely I I I think this the United Kingdom is known as Society of entrepreneurs yeah uh and the problem we have with I’ll going to be careful with because John is a huge conservative
Party uh Advocate um the current leadership I think that is somewhere got a bit missed from my I I totally agree and and at the conference I shall be I shall be you know talking to one of two ministers and banging their heads together if I could if I can get old of
Him but especially that Chancellor he justes me I I I I think he’s got a tough job um without defending him but I think he has got a tough job and I think John always when I speak to John he’s got such great perspective VI to his Network
Which we’re going to touch base later on is how he looks at problems and solutions and challenges in society the economy and everything else and he’s also got Insight that many others don’t and he’s just mentioned some um and I think people really realize that entrepreneurs are the Cornerstone of the
United Kingdom economy and society and we need those otherwise we will not prosper and I think I’m going to leave that before I get into my tax breaks and all the rest of it um business challenges let’s move on to this because as we love this time always flies um you
Mentioned earlier uh um property development and we were talking off here is you believe property development is at the hardest point now it’s really hard to be a property developer than anywhere from your career starting and you’ve been in the game for four decades
Yeah so why why do you think that well I think well first of all funding has got easier because in the old days you could only borrow 50% 50% of the purchase price 50% of the bill costs now you can borrow probably 70% and all the bill
Costs right so the funding’s got easier but of course with that has come a new breed of investor um and until recently you know they could borrow they could they could refinance it and keep it now that’s not really an option yeah um and it’s the
Perfect storm I was talking to a friend of mine who I won’t say who they are but they run uh one of the top top um house new house Builder firms in the UK and he said it’s impossible at the moment John and I agreed with him
Because you’ve got bill costs have gone up 30% yeah um interest rates um have doubled from where they were two years ago for us well more than doubled more than doubled in know was we were paying 6% oh um two years ago we’re now paying 12% you know and that’s with the
Clearers by the way if you want the bridges are some of them not a lot more um and buil and prices have come down so that’s a perfect storm so anybody that’s been developing in the last three years and hasn’t finished their projects most of them would you respect are probably
What we call underwater right they got to have a hell of they must have had a hell of a deal to start with not being so so all I’ve been buying in the last three years are are are properties that have have have um stalled so we buy them
Off receivers we got two in Scotland um schemes 26 houses and fla in Scotland that was part finished bu the developer went bust another one in in Scotland 12 units Apartments where the Builder went Bank fact he died of coid actually but then went went bust another one in
Birmingham another one down in Hungerford another one in Cardiff and so on so that’s really we’re buying because on that basis someone else has taken the hit on the bill costs but even then he’s still got to unravel it it’s still difficult the’re difficult deals to do I
I I think you put um it in a nutshell the strategy changes and I totally you’ve got to be flu foot and I think you’ve given huge insight to the audience around how you’re thinking about the solution because when I speak to and I’ve been fortunate humble enough
Uh due to the network that we’ve built up that we get to speak to quite a lot of Industry experts um at quite high level and they all got different perspectives um a lot of people think this is the best time to uh be buying property and investing because of what
We’ll get on to later about whether we’re in a recession or not um in 2023 as we’re recording this podcast is everyone has a different perspective depending on what their strategy is what their property strategy is I think it varies depending on what you do your
What I always say is is that property is like a big boat ship it takes a long time to stop turn around and go the other way as soon as the market gets a bit tougher everyone well people like me want to jump in too soon yeah cuz we cuz
We’re at the sharp end yeah we know what’s happening and we want to get in but actually sometimes just step back a bit take a bit of time there’s no rush nothing turns around within in less than three years I I I think I think you you’ve put
Down nut so so we’re looking at a Convent a Convent at the moment to convert yeah now it’ll take us a year to get planning probably take us a year to do it yeah so we’re now looking two years ahead and saying will the market
Be better in two years than it is now what do you think what do you think what’s your advice what my advice two years from now it depends what was the property that you’re buy it’s a conversion of a it will be 28 units 28 units what is it current currently a
Convent Convent okay okay provided you get planning well we’ll get we’ll get planning I’m not worried about planning that’s what John saying now the connections I think it depends on the gdv and that’s why I was going to ask you what the grossest development value is 14 million 14 million and what’s
What’s the cost you’re looking on uh we’re about we’re in about 9 million plus this that and the other so so it’s a decent deal but what I’m asking you is It’s All About Time proper is about timing yeah and I think if you’re looking two years ahead yeah you’re probably about
Right now to start reinvesting in conversions and things like that because you’re two years away but you need to make sure there’s a big margin in these deals don’t bring me deals with 20% margin in them I’m not interested I need 35 40% because then if it goes wrong or
It doesn’t happen in two years time you can still live with it if you’re doing deals at 15 20% you’ve had it you’re underwater from day one virtually all you need is the bill cost to go up 10 15% which is very easy as we all know
Sale price is to go down 5% and you’re in trouble answering your question I think that’s a really great insight for me I look at working the gdv and the returner think you worked out a success of 30% if I work at top my head on 40
Million gdv so 30 to 40% I would probably be expecting a bit more at the moment I’ll be honest with you the reason being is financing costs as you mentioned are gone out of the roof so financing costs are gone out of the roof I will look at negotiating because
Normally if you’re buying something in distress right now people need you to buy because not many people are buying no but you’ll be amazing compet still competition out there depends on what you’re buying and which area it’s in because always buying the best areas the best areas you can afford because those
Areas even if the market gets tough they’ll sell first but always sell first I think that is they say by the worst house on the best street right and I totally agree with that I think that is a great philosophy but that comes to network but also it depends on the cash
Position what can you get from a financing at the right rates and I think that’s the biggest bit people haven’t factored in so a lot of people are selling stuff thinking they’re going to get prices but any smart property investor or developer is thinking 6 months 12 months 2 years in your case
Ahead what is the value going to be at that cuz that is the variable cuz if you’re saying it’s 14 million how how how how do you know that’s going to happen because you sound like an accountant now no I’m explaining to you the numbers so you have to evaluate the
Risk but you have to take the view you have to take the view that you know you take the worst case scenario you know the market has dropped 10% in my view is it going to drop another train 10% probably not might do but then that’s the risk we take we’re entrepreneurs
Absolutely but we we we make sure we have’t out before we have it in we make sure we know what what we’re going to do if it all goes wrong I and that’s really that’s super important as well I I think you put the nut in a nutshell for me I
Would always do a scenario modeling on anything I would do first if I’m going to tell it as a property developer secondly if that’s not going to work out because something goes north how much is the refinancing we have to sort of project it uh and how much will the flow
Offset that I might have to hold it and that’s it’s got to be at least two or three scenarios because or it might be hybrid of the two but but what you got to remember is at the moment we’re not buying anything off anybody personally because they’re never going
To sell it the money we want to pay so we’re only buying off receivers administrators and this convent for instance has to be sold right so and and no one’s going to benefit personally from it right so when they’re not people aren’t benefit benefiting it personally from
It they do care what it goes for but then they haven’t got the same it’s not so important of course um so they’re the only people we’re buying off if you say to me oh Mr blogs wants to sell well he might do he’s not going to take my offer
Waste of time at the moment I I think the numbers that you said on that deal they do stack up thank you yeah because if you think about 14 million 9 million and you put in a as long as you put in a little bit of a fudge in there um for
The cost any movement gets your approval does it yeah I’m delighted to hear it I can my God I can sleep at night now I can sleep at night now that’s fantastic listen everyone comes and ask for advice you know this is this and normally he charges me so it’s actually free this
Time I mean yeah this is why he’s Savvy this is why he’s got 4 four decades that’s why why I came in love it love it and I look forward to uh chatting to him about that project I think it’s going to be quite interestings and I think the the big nuggets which
John’s just given us in a huge amount from The Experience knowledge that he’s got is that he’s thinking on some of these property developments two years he whacking a year planning a a year in development and thinking about what it’s going to be worth in two years and
That’s the debate we just had yeah the biggest the biggest mistake people make is they’ll think they’ll be in and out in the year and it just doesn’t all due respect it doesn’t happen and do do you know what people don’t realize I know we’re getting into this detail but how
The most one of the most important things is um is how we structure that totally right structuring the deal is so so important and you got to speak I’m biased I’m telling people I tell everybody I’m biased but you need your account on Tax Advisor business you need
Your full team I hate the word Power Team by the way because I just hate all these educated uses use bloody Power Team I hate the word but you know consult I use the word Consultants you need to surround yourself with the best people you can afford so important You’
Put in a nutshell we’re just doing one right now um the gdv of the deal is going to go from 4 or5 million to about 8 9 million that’s huge on a block so we’ve structured that we saved vat stamp Duty land tax Capital allowances got a
Whole ex but if we hadn’t done that that would have cost them that’s over a million pound that’s a lot of saving serious and you need your lawyer involved who understands commercial residential depending on what it is really good understand that and they also have to know what their remit is
And also you have to have your accountant Tax Advisor know their remit and your financing whoever they are make sure you invest time to get a good one because that could break the whole deal yeah and if you have all those people they’re key parties and then you have
Other parties that come along um for different parts but if you don’t have that and you don’t have those regular the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand say and what I would also say is you know if you’re a property developer you show me a property
Developer there’s never lost any money I’ll show you a liar I love every developer will have the odd disaster something goes wrong that you don’t expect might be coid might be Bill cost going up 30% Without You realizing or whatever it might be might be the Builder’s gone bust on you could be
Anything you’re going to make mistakes but it’s how you deal with those mistakes that’s important we’ve all lost money on deals all of us uh but it’s how you deal with them and and keeping it to a minimum a friend of mine a very successful property developer I asked
Him the other day I said be honest how many deals are successful he said 70% 70% he said the I know I’m going to lose out of 10 I know I’m not going to make money on three but who cares I’m making money on the S on the seven I I I think
You put that in a nutsh show is when you you’re experienced property developer and especially when I see different ones they mitigate that because as you said they have number of projects running so they know that they will minimize a lot it may break even or slight loss but
Then the ones that make money they have enough margin because they have that because different areas different property strategies have different impacts and yeah they do and and the market can be different you know it’s it is a micro market so you got one area
That you think is going to be great and it’s not for some reason I mean no one wants to lose money you know the F the first thing I think about what a deal is I I’m relieved twice once when I get my money back that I’ve put in yeah yeah
And the bank’s money back the second when I make a profit first thing is don’t lose any money second thing make a you make a profit it’s a not a bonus but it’s that’s how I say it I’m going to touch on because there’s so
Much and I’ll be talking to John for age who’s got so much fun to get through I think one of the things that I’ve noticed speaking to you um is that you become an entrepreneur from a young age but your natural one of skill set which
I’m sure your wife has seen is your natural leader because when you have conversations with yourself and how you get people involved and part the property graduate aspects I saw that you naturally know how to ruffle feathers when they need to be ruffled definitely but also get
People together on and you know how to get the best out of people how how have you found that journey to develop that leadership I’ve just I never until someone mentioned it in many ways I never realized I was I think it’s a natural Rel atively natural thing and I
I didn’t know I had that ability it’s like I didn’t know I had the ability particularly especially as a stamer to stand up and and you know I speak at different events and and um I have a certain amount I put a certain amount of humor into it mind you prop the elevator
With the rest of them on the on the show I need to put the humor in they’re they’re bloody boring some of them aren’t they ranan and that lot so you know I have to put I have to put a bit of Comedy into it but but but but just
On that point ran if you’re watching so he he’s a gift that just keeps on giving I go on and on so what I’m saying is you know I never realiz I had that ability to be fair and but but but but it’s a natural thing it’s not it’s not
Trained it’s not you know it’s just an it’s an actual thing but what I would say is when I bought into camb United when I was 26 years old yeah the managers the football managers we must have sacked seven or eight of them over the years uh and all the rest of it
Commo managers football managers I was there 18 years wow and then eventually we struggled we we went from the fourth division nearly to the first we got into the premier we got into the playoffs of the Premiership and on Gates of 5,000 amazing we had an amazing run two quari
On Epic cups amazing time wow and four of us really owned the club between us was was You There When di on Dublin yeah I sold wow to man you my team right we’re de what happened was we were out in Sweden and I was with the team in
Sweden I was doing a little preseason training cuz I was young enough then to do it w and in fact Dion said to me I was at the back running at the back and Dion was at the back with me I mean he you know the guys an athlete he’s at the
Back with me in preseason training and I said to him he said John John Slow Down slow down that was Dion anyway next day got a call from Man United and uh they were in Germany and so he he went he went from Sweden to Germany for the
Medical we agreed The Deal at1 million yeah at the time and uh yeah and that the do was done so he never came back he he he went off with them wow uh and then he broke his legs soon into I heard yeah but bazari of course it’s come full
Circle away cuz he’s now on the he’s now on um um what’s the show he does auction the auction um the auction show BC One homes under the hammer so it’s uh and uh he’s a nice man nice man Dion nice he’s been on like match all yeah he’s done
Really Di’s done really well really well in the media really really well and then so as was their 18 years we got into financial trouble I bought the ground yeah um which uh caused a lot of problems I had a lot of people shouting at games at me I had a special police
Wow to look after me at game was embarrassing and then on a Sunday uh two coach loads of fans uh were intercepted by the police on the way down to my house to protest wow so they intercepted them and anyway anyway uh we we we
Leased it back to the club for 5 years uh and then we sold we sold it on to Gro Estates who thought they could a subsidiary of Groen Estates massive company who thought they could re relocate them but they never had B and actually since then the club have
Managed to buy the ground back wow so anyway that’s my that’s my footballing uh that’s my footballing life really in moving on to that’s really good great Insight people going to love that because that brings reality of what John’s achieved in his career today and
He’s done so much a lot of games but you’ve had the UPS as well you know so that you have to balance it right um I think one of the things that I want to just touch is in your career where did you or so far because it’s still long to
Are to go where where have you made the most amount of money because the entrepreneurs watching and want to be inspired well this might this might not Inspire them to be fair but I made I made more money from the age of 20 to 30 why than I have since really why pro
Rata um it was good times there wasn’t too much competition I had a great backer and I had a great backer Mr Boyce as he was called um and it’s not from Only Fools and H no it’s not definitely not and definitely not and his son now I do
Some stuff with his son still now as well as some stuff on my own and so on and um we got into buying to blocks wow so um we bought a to block in ipswitch uh which was 74 Flats sold them all off and in 1996 we made 988 th000 profit profit wow
After after interest wow and I was I was 25 or something wow and from there we then went on and and did a bought a number of tab blocks across the country and in those days these these couns were blowing them up and to blow them up was
Half a million pound so if we gave them 100,000 for it they’re delighted they’re 600,000 better off and then we refurbish them and sell them to firsttime buyers and my view was if you can make them as much like a hotel fi foyer as possible
We used to put gyms in now it’s Naf isn’t it but in those days it was quite something to put a gym in Little Gym in and and all those saers in and so and we sold them off the firsttime buyers um so we had blocks of you know 15 20 21 20
Odd stories it’d be surprised I’ve seen some diver put modern day gyms in now yeah but they’re not like the rubbish gyms we put in in those days we talking about n late ‘ 80s early ’90s then the recession came in the early ’90s um and I had a big Big Country House
With 100 acres and all the rest of it wow and I thought this isn’t this isn’t uh this is going to be tough um and uh so I I sold that and I bought the house I’m in now which is uh another Hall um with 22 Acres uh but it was it was
Cheaper than one I had wow and I’ve lived there for 30 31 years wow so um so I think anticipating problems before they happen is really important I think this brings us nicely on success in surviving think you put it in a nutshell the question what you is you know what
Coming you can feel it from your experience knowledge and you know how to adapt yeah and you have to constantly keep on doing that is yeah I think I think you have to keep adapting and and you have to have a all these strategies you know that they roll these Educators
Roll out these strategies normally one because that’s the all they know about to be honest with you and they’ve probably done it once and then they want to teach everyone else how to do it I think you have to be flexible um I think being a one trick pony you
Know we have we have some we in the mid90s we were doing a lot of buying a lot of offices to convert it back into residential listed building a lot of listed buildings yeah um historical buildings and converted them back into houses and flats um and then everyone
Started catching on so then we moved on to something different and then we moved on something different and so on so you need to bee of the game a little bit PD was a great example Nicholas wwor who’s on property elevator with a great friend
Of mine was into PD uh in 2012 and he made a lot of money won’t mind me saying it on micro units yeah um and then the government have changed it and now you can’t do mic me and everyone wants to do PD he doesn’t do it anymore he’s moved
On so you know you have to be you have to be flexible um and and I’ve done you know it’s interesting um um I’ve do I do quite a lot of commercial that people perhaps don’t realize because I do a lot of residential mainly but I do quite a lot
Of commercial got commercial Investments um and and and and we worked out the other day that I’ve converted 16 different types of buildings into residential W from Piggies to water tower to this that the other in 84 different towns and cities across the UK so that’s gives you the breadth of of
Experience but you know there’s nothing I haven’t really tried I wouldn’t say done well but tried uh and uh you know and that’s there’s not much I haven’t you said I haven’t we haven’t we haven’t bought if you like over those years I I think you’re given huge value to the audience
Of insight the different property strategies the mindset the geographical diversity huge I think this leads us on nicely I think sort of touched on it but one of the biggest things I’ve noticed when I speak to yourself is you built a huge reputation and people always say they
Built a reputation and I’m not one of these people that uh always agrees with them because you have to have some substance when you build a reputation you have to to have a track record and a way of speaking and getting people on side so how how have you done this and I
Want to cover key parts of building the reputation one of the things you known is as I mentioned tough but fit how do you get that balance well I think I think first of all you got to be authentic I think the people now and and
I do some social medias you know and I I’ve learned how to well I my stepdaughter does most of it as you know but anyway i’ I’ve sort of learned that that that’s not a bad way of communicating with people um I don’t think it’s the BN an Endor by the way I
Mean I got 3.2 million um views on a on on on a Tik Tok um thing I said and you said it right today uh said it last year yeah I said it right today well to tick or Tik Tok or whatever so and and out of that 14,000 comments um which sounds
Great but actually did I make any money out of it no so you know it’s a lot of it is fluff so but but what I would say is if you’re looking to build I think you have to I I never thought of myself as as building a reputation I’ve just
Done what I do and and people like it or they don’t like it um they like the the forthrightness I think of what I say and the honesty in it but I can then people say well it’s s for you can afford to be honest about what you about it or well I
Can afford to be honest about it touchwood but you should always be honest about it so if you got people telling you things that aren’t true yeah because they want to get you on the course or something then then you know I’ve get people I do a few seminars not
That many and I get people and I always try and speak to them beforehand uh on a zoom or something just chat to them and they might I might say look I don’t think this is for you and they go well then they want to come even more if you
Say that to them by the way well I’m not being rude but I just don’t think it will it will benefit you or or when they’re on you know one or two seminars I always you know they oh I want to I want to be a developer on do so well I
Don’t think you’re suited to it you know they don’t like that either but I mean I just think being honest about it is is is the best policy and I think being authentic um is the way forward I I I think that’s um a rare quality in the
Modern day uh I agree with you 110% but in the modern day where people are so many pressures they sometimes forget themselves and they make uh not the best decisions and I think if you are authentic with people in the longer term people respect you and yes you may lose
Some relationship but they weren’t worth having no so I think that’s the hardest part and it has to have that self-belief it goes by to self belief I believe I think one of the other bits that when I speak to you is huge is your networking I’ve seen this person John Howard
Networking in person uh I think you went to an event that we we invited you to um and you’ve you’ve got that down to a te thank you uh and it’s just I’ve been trained it’s just what I what I think the thing is to do
You know I I think this is the Insight the audience because people find these all challenges yeah you know to be tough but fair people say that but you’ve given a real life examples of how you’ve done that hi everyone sorry to interrupt the podcast hope you’re getting huge
Amount of value from this just going to be quick two seconds first of all to let you know in the comments below we have got links to free business guides that can help you on your entrepreneur Journey they include exclusive footage from Sky TV episodes that I’ve done and
A whole load of other content in there whether you’re growing business property investor property developer or if you want to love the fun of SAS pensions please do look at those and if you still want more help get in touch the contact details are below I hope you enjoy the
Podcast how do you how have you learned to really you know Network and actually get the experience and get that uh your view and your opinions across to everybody and build those relationships when You’ got whole set of new set of people yeah and you just do it without
Even thinking about it well most of them don’t know who I am which helps when you start when I start I find that hard to believe and and the story I always tell is is I always sit in the audience beforehand and and talk to someone they go who’s on tonight who’s talking
Tonight they go I don’t know some bloke what do you want to talk about well I like to know about this what’s your name you know Margaret would you mind if I mention you Mark when I’m speaking later and and but it breaks the ice you know
And I think having a bit of humor breaks the ice and uh you know Margaret said to me earlier D you know that’s just a I I just find that natural to do that and I think I know it sounds really really simple but smiling is so important and I
Know it sounds bit crackers I always say to my stepchildren two girls you know they look when they used to be little and look a bit miserable sometimes said make sure your bloody smile it doesn’t do anything it cost you nothing to smile make sure you say hello to everyone
Treat everybody the same whether it’s the gardener Harry on the way out to school or it’s someone we know or whoever everyone gets treated the same everyone gets treated the same and I think that is so important that to make people feel important when you speak to
Them and give them respect is is is the least you can do especially if they’ve invited you to an event and they expect you to meet people and talk to you you know I go to some events and and the other speakers don’t don’t engage any
With anyone I mean you always do but I mean so many don’t engage and I like to go around speak to every if there’s tables there I go around to each table introduce myself sit down with them you know I just think that’s part of the job
That’s what you’re there for bis Johnson came to a dinner do you know you’ve read my mind he’s actually read my mind I was just going to give an example don’t worry Boris Johnson came to a dinner and he also stayed on for the in the evening and in the evening um
Dinner we had two dinners evening dinner I was the I was the auctioneer um for them and um I was sat next to him at the dinner at the lunch lunchtime and he went round every table shook everyone’s hands 280 people in the room he shook everyone’s hands tried to speak to as
Many people as possible we have a lot of politicians come and see us because we got this little Big Business Club they come down for and so on and he’s the only one who did that love him or hate him he’s a communicator apart from me soaking myself right I
Think that’s a great great Point how he’s done that is it doesn’t matter what level he was at he’s treated everybody absolutely personalization isn’t it being personable if you’re not personable with people this is what’s going to happen and that’s how you get deals people say to me oh it’s right for
You you get deals yeah I talk to people I get a relationship with them and I they trust me and I pay them a fee as well for finding it and all the rest of it you know if you spend all your time doing emails you ain’t going to talk to
No you’re not making any contacts get out there and speak to a few people I I think you’ve you’ve actually smashed that question and answer that is exactly huge value and that’s huge insight to everybody who’s watching moving on to some of the successes uh other successes
That you’ve had you did a huge and I was quite fortunate to hear you do a presentation on this one of your big developments was the wine r back yes 26 million build cost gdv it was meant to be 22 million but then but then brexit
Came and we get on to brexit in a bit about that should I tell you why it went from 22 to 26 yeah because uh the pound against the Euro so 70% of building materials come from Europe wow so when the market when the when the when the
You know the the exchange rate changes by 20% that’s where the difference is so that cost you 4 mil yeah and then but you still made 38 million well we didn’t make 38 million the gdv was 38 million I never talk about what we make I never
Talk about what we lose because at the end of the day and I don’t sit I don’t stand next to a Ferrari and tell him that’s my car I haven’t got a Ferrari before you ask by the way so although in my 20 lamborghin are in my 20s I had a
Bentley with a chauffeur but I was a bit of a PR then so um that’s what I mean about making more money in the 20s so um yeah that deal came about because um it with the the block it was a skeleton and it was called the wine rat because
It was a concrete frame and never been filled in if you can EXA imagine that and it went bust in 2007 we bought it in 200 17 18 we paid a million pounds for it wow okay off the receivers y it cost them 7 million to build what they had
Built so far in 2007 wow so some of these difficult deals only have a window in a 15-year cycle of property cycle before it starts going wrong again yeah they only have probably a fiveyear gap where a difficult project will actually work because the costs yes and we got it
About right we’re a bit slow getting started um we borrowed the money off homes England which is the government uh Bank yeah um and we only borrow the money off it because of the MP at the time yeah uh who um Ben gmer who I got
Friendly with and um I’m a toy donor anyway which helps I accept that but that deal was agreed at at treasury level level it was the biggest private loan uh sorry it’s a biggest it was the biggest loan to a private property company they’ve done bigger ones since
Wow um they’ve all been they all been paid back we sold the last one the other day that took 5 years to building it we built on time on budget which is very rare for us or anyone else the reason we did that was because the bigger the contractors normally the more organized
They are yes and they more Consultants our Consultants bill was 840,000 Consultants but worth every penny but worth every penny so you know you you you got it’s easier doing a deal that size than a small deal I’ve recently bought a blocker Flats in Burmingham sold sold them off the same day to
Someone else chopped off the back guard and kept the garage now I’ve had more fun doing that deal where I hope to get planning on the garage by the way for house I may not I may look a fool I actually got just as much fun out of
That deal that I have doing these big deals so so I’m unusual amongst developers because um a lot of my people I know and and the level of deals I can do wouldn’t ever touch anything small whereas I’ll touch anything I you know if there’s a deal in it I’ll try and do
It and uh and again the person I sold that to has got a great deal I’ve got you know I’ve got the contacts I got it to the right money um in fact they came on one of my mentor ships years ago and I got kept really friendly with him um
And he yeah and that’s that’s just context just how it how it works out isn’t it I I I think you’ve put Insight on the mindset how you go about constructing these deals and what relationships you have to build to do those I think the other bit because time
Is always against us is your TV career and the books that you’ve done the huge amount that you’ve done give us a bit I fell into that in the last few years so has it had a huge impact yeah it’s been great fun great fun I and I don’t the TV
Or the books or BX I I don’t take it seriously that’s the first thing I do not take it seriously there’s not a lot of money in it um and I don’t take it seriously but I really enjoyed the people I’ve met I’ve met you through that I’ve met ranan I’ve met Nicholas
I’ve met Paul Mahoney I’ve met so many nice people through it all uh as well as lots of people who are very complimentary which is nice so um so I wrote a book which I found very easy to do I was surprised how easy it was to do and my
Math my English teacher at school would have had his head in his hands but I actually found it very easy to to write and it actually is very easy to read Because as my brother says the longest word in it is and which is a bit rude um
But it’s very self-explanatory about the uh property developing and investing for for for for newcomers and then I did another one Advance I’ve done an auction one cuz we we didn’t touch on the fact that I owned auction as UK 40y old franchises across the UK for a while
Sold the business a while ago with my partner um and and then I’ve done a I’ve done a um Advanced Property developing book and um auction book and now I’m just finishing a commercial book so I found them I found them uh really good
Fun to do um I found them easy to do because if you talk anybody can write a book just talk just write about what you know about it’s not really it’s not that difficult um getting them published is a pain but anyway and all the rest of it
And then because I did the book I then fell into property uh TV with property TV rang me up said look would you you got a book would you like to come in and do some stuff so I came in and did That’s where I’ve met most of the people
I’ve met is through property TV W um and then I’ve done some I’ve had that you know I’ve been talking with with BBC about um a series and bits and Bobs hasn’t come to anything yet but who knows so uh and I found it quite easily
Be in front of the camera I I don’t have a problem with it um at all um it doesn’t worry me I don’t care what the questions are going to be I just you know I I don’t honestly I find it quite easy um which again surprised myself uh
But I I found it really I really enjoy it I found it good found anything to be honest with it’s G me a new lease of life and what I love doing I love meeting people I like helping people um and that’s when I came up with the idea
Of the property graduate that leades us nicely onto the prodject gadget because what you’ve done is you’ve leveraged TV you’re you’re quite easy because you’re going on there you know how to make an impact you got a huge amount of knowledge and experience I think a lot of people struggle with that because
They haven’t got the knowledge experience um and they can’t then relate because when you’re on TV as you know 30 seconds is like half hour and it goes like that it does and if you if you’re trying to blag it you get found out very quickly very very quickly with without
Being arrogant I’ve had to step in and help one or two out over the years you know because because they get you know especially some like property TV where you don’t get a second take really no you don’t you know which is great training by the way oh come on
We’re doing it bang we’re doing it good really that’s it yeah we’re doing it so you don’t and so you don’t get a second take um unless it’s a real you know a real mess yeah cuz theyve got time they’re on to the next thing but it’s
Really good training and and I get put on with a lot of people who are doing it for the first time and I don’t I love that I don’t mind that because I’m happy to help them out if they need some don’t need any help but they tend to put me on
With people who haven’t been on before or not very often um which which I’m delighted to do because sometimes they just need that little bit of help absolutely when you’re on there I I to be honest I’ve had that a few times as well and when you first start um I was
With someone quite relatively new but I I just found it quite normal you’re you’re but you’re very natural at it as well and and when we’re on we’ve been on T we’ve been on it together and it’s good fun there’s lots of banter I don’t always agree with you and you
Don’t agree with me all the time but that’s fun it’s you get some people they just say yes that’s right you know you just you need that bit of but bter you know you need that little bit and that’s why they ask me back because you know
I’m sure it’s bit life put a bit of life in it huge value and opinions make it and I think I think it needs liy on to to property graduate the reason why you did prop your graduate so so the reason I did property graduate I thought well
What what sh we did a property elevator as well which is it’s um it’s in six series I mean it’s amazing I always have a joke around down second rate show after property graduate exactly so so what the idea of property graduate was you know there’s lots of people out
There trying to be property developers and they’re struggling they find it difficult to do and all the rest of it so I came up with the idea of um a little bit like The Apprentice but I I the winner gets a million pound worth of
Funding for me to go and find a deal and we share the profit 50/50 so I’m not that generous cuz I’m sharing it 50/50 so they have to go and find it they got one year to find it the winner has they have to go and find a
Deal I I mention them through the whole process obviously um I take the risk with the deal and we share the profit 50/50 and up to a million pounds worth of funding so that’s buying it and developing it and um Alfie cofy won the first year we’re doing a deal in
Hungerford at the moment wow it’s taken a bit longer than a year to be fair but we won’t worry too much about that um and he he’s that he was a he’s a very bright boy he actually came and worked with me as well which is that isn’t the
Job that isn’t the sorry that isn’t the prize um and I think it’s very important people keep keep their jobs as well I’m not suggesting give you job up for it by any means but we have a few hundred people apply every year yeah um we Wht it down to
20 also and then we have three rounds the first round is interview which we they get it from 10 20 to 10 the 10 then the second day let the ones left have to go away well we give them a challenge which uh normally is a property that I
Wanted to buy or I have bought and they have to work out what they would do with it to make a 30% net profit wow that is Carnage which I cannot understand because I can analyze the deal I can analyze a deal within 5 minutes they
Can’t do it within an hour and it’s it’s crazy in my view just to add into a John how John analyzes the deal is quite unique just to let you know all right because everyone’s got different perspectives how to analyze deal can I just say how simple it is once you know
The square footage you can work out the gdv and you work out the bill cost so that that way you can work out what you can pay for it it’s not rocket science it’s not it’s not that difficult I I think it’s that that’s the Topline numbers but when when you’re um that’s
What we’re looking for that’s yeah but you’re also looking at um all the implications on the cost side the concy yes but that’s but that’s we don’t worry about the tax the tax because the tax the tax is paid if you make a profit you pay your tax that’s that’s we’re not
Worried about tax what I’m worried about is whether whether we whether having worked it out within 5 10 minutes you want to then look it into more detail or not or where you want to Chuck it in the bin this lot would take some of them
Would take the day to do it well you can’t can’t do that you take a day 30 days you’ve only looked at 30 deals I I I think I think what you’ve done is put it in stages the first is the Rough and Ready look it’s a simple appraisal based
On simple information that you get off the you go off the particulars and you don’t need to go into how many schools there are on there what the crime rates are we don’t need to know that to start with what we need to know
Is what you can afford to pay for it and you can once you have a square footage everything else you can work out straight away it’s simple if I can do it any idiot can do it I’m telling you this is why property graduate is going to be
Explosive because you’re going to see these difference in matters and Minds uh on different Affairs uh regarding how you buy a property and all the different opinions because every entrepreneur has a different way of doing it they shouldn’t do in my view I I think there’s different stages because you
Mentioned tax in the sense it’s only on profit but we don’t need to worry about tax just taxes taxes are relevant you got that’s why you got an account that’s why you got experts like you absolutely you sort the tax out I’m not worried about the tax why I I’m not worried
About the tax of course but what one of the things is is when people are doing the numbers when they get into stage two stage one Rough and Ready I st Duty land tax and V of course that’s in stage one you know what the
Stamp duty is you got you got to have a you need to know what the St is in stage one but you don’t need to worry about what your income tax is or or or how much tax going to pay theend that’s different you don’t need to know that
But the what I found was a challenge was because that varies the numbers quite a lot depending on whaty yeah how hard is that to work that out come on well it go on the government website tells you everything what you can do what you can
Get away with st what you can’t it isn’t rocket s property is a very simple business It’s Complicated by these so-called Educators it’s a simple business if it wasn’t a simple business I would not be in it I I think at certain levels it’s simple but if you
Are uh taking it to quite Advanced aspects it depends on what strategy you’re doing I think because I think if you’re buying um say commercial property let’s use an example and I love this discussion the audience going to love this if you’re buying commercial property you can save shed loads on
Stamp D when you buy it the vat can save because that fix the stamp Duty then you got to make sure whether you’re a developer investor whether you’re going to claim something called Capital allowances because you’re a developer you can’t claim them investors can so this is where having the right team that
Makes some difference difference it makes some difference but at the end of the day most those things are pretty basic and your accountant would advise you you would advise your clients accordingly and that’s where you want a good team you want to write the right accountants in place I accept that but
But at the end of the day a specialist area it’s not it’s not B standard I I understand it’s not but but but if you know anything about yourself you should be able to sharpen up and know how to do it you should have a specialist in your
Team can do it that’s all I’m saying I don’t you know do I do I know how to do I know how to you know most of the stuff we’re properly developing I don’t know how to do but I know people who will and I’m the captain of the ship and that
Goes back to leadership which we mentioned earlier I think that’s one of the things that you’ve you have to be really good because you can’t do everything it’s impossible and the people who try to do everything get into all sorts of trouble you know they’re control freaks I’m not a control freak
I’ve that’s that’s a huge delegation I’m not a I’m a delegator I I’m very happy for everyone else and hopefully they’re brighter and better than me by the way I’m happy I’m delighted if they’re better than me um the difference is the hav’t got the balls I’ve got that’s the
Difference you heard that on the show that is the difference they worry about crossing the road that’s why they could that’s why they’re Consultants they’re bright people they don’t need to take risks I had to take some calculat risks now drisking is what it’s all about by
The way you know I won’t go to a casino yeah I put a a bet on a horse although I did train race horses at home but we haven’t mentioned that so but what I’m saying is you know drisking deals before you do them is the key and that that is
The key I I think what you’re you need to know what fear is you need to have fear yeah a lot of people don’t have fear I find they shut their eyes and they go for it sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t you got to be able
To mitigate your risk but not discourage you from doing the deal if it stands up but it’s but you can’t convince yourself it Stacks up when it doesn’t yeah yeah I I I I agree with you on that I think that it leads us nicely onto um obviously ctax heavily involved in
Property graduate we’re delighted to have you as a sponsor you know that you’ve been you’ve been brilliant so than thank you so much and it’s going to go live in October we’re going to have that in the details below on all across all social medias um and you’re going to
See that be great fan and you’re in it yeah bought you in yeah we got to keep that that’s be part of the clips coming in so on the so on the show I have two advisers basically who advise me what I should be doing um and this year we had
You know we we had two great great ladies perfect I’ve got behind the scenes with them love it they’re great they’re great and very experienced as well and um so that works really well yeah yeah I think I think the way you’ve done it and having knowledgeable property entrepreneurs or in it
Absolutely and then they can advise and nurture and hopefully the the winner which we will be in October you’ll be seeing huge value huge value and what an opportunity what an opportunity huge opportunity for the person and I think there’re going to be a different and the
Whole thank you and the whole idea is that we don’t just do one deal together they become my partner and we do we we leave the money in the company that we that you’re going to form in this case for we leave leave we leave the money in
The company and we do deal after deal after deal and that’s what used to happen years ago is that you’d have a property company and you’d leave most of the money in for the next deal the next deal and you build the company up and
That’s what I want to do with the with the um property entrepreneurs who who want to get on in life I think there’s a way to do it really tax efficiently I just explained to the audience so what you do is you set up with the parent companies yeah the subsidiary and then
You money your department we’ll be doing that fun saving you quite a lot of tax love Entre that’s why you’re my accountant so don’t worry about that I think it leaves us on to um I think you’ve mentioned quite a lot but your approach right um because we’ve had huge value from
John so much stuff when you go watch this podcast you’re going to feel appreciation of all that value I think you put in nutshell your approach um I think one of the things to will come to audience is he loves humor and he can ease the
Situation you can expand a little bit on that why why do you why is that your way of communic I’ve just found I just found over the years um that you want to do business with a smaller in your face really and if if you can’t do it with a
Smile on your face you know and see some humor in it and I don’t mean being silly about it but I mean just being friendly and kind and decent with people uh and engaging with them then if you can’t do that then what’s the point really you
Know there’s no point and um over the years you know listen I’m not the best property developer in the world I’m not the worst but I’m not the best um there’s people far more successful than me I’ve done okay um maybe I’ve been a little bit more serious I’ve done a bit
Better I don’t know but um I I just think that in most cases it eases the situation a little bit you know we’re not talking about cracking jokes exactly but just having a nice way about you smiling being relaxed not being to not being aggressive when you talk to people
You know and that’s frustrating at times because perhaps now and again you want to be um and I’ve very rarely fallen out of anyone and if I’ve ever fallen out of anyone I’ve always regretted it within a few days and it’s very rare that I fall
Out of anyone I’d rather just walk away I I think that’s a great mind yeah I think that’s a great mindset I think you have to have that mindset I think a lot of people yeah we are in a serious business but there’s a way of conducting yourself and having that relationship
Where people feel relaxed and when you are with a smile you’re relaxed they go together yeah they do they do go together and and and you know it’s a bit like someone’s someone telling jokes you can’t tell I can’t tell jokes I would I’d forget the I’d forget the ending so
I I don’t tell you so if you can’t if you can’t be like that if you haven’t got that little bit of charm that’s required don’t try because if you try I’ve got a A friend of mine who who thinks he’s charming and he’s not and
He’s just bloody rude to people so you know if you can you know I can be rude to you and you’ll smile and we have a laugh about it um and vice versa but not everyone can do that and if you can’t do it don’t do it it’s like I can’t tell
Jokes I don’t tell jokes nothing worse I think you put the nutshell I think it leads on thing is when you build rapport someone is the key whether what kind of banter is going to work with them and it’s instead of jumping in with whatever you’re going to jump in with is
Understanding what is that person how do they react to stuff and you work your way with someone you don’t start with the most controversial thing on the planet and I think that’s where people make the mistake you need to get a connection with people yeah and then
They know that you’re they they say when you meet someone uh you have what is it 10 seconds to to impr three now four it’s like you know it’s and that stays with them for like two or three months so you really do need to make or for life even
So you really do need to uh to make a good impression I think that people always say First Impressions count that’s right I think most times the first impression you have people it is actually the right one yeah you know I’ve gone against that sometimes and
Ended up thinking why did I do that yeah because naturally you know when someone’s how they like and how they react I always say um when you’re looking at someone because they can’t see their own face the reactions don’t lie do they no they don’t do they
Because you can see it they’ not got mirror around with them wherever they go I I think that’s huge huge value to the audience this is how you uh grow your network how you build relationships John’s put all of that in the nutshell now the fun part uh and uh we slightly
Going a bit over time on this podcast but John’s got huge value so I just had to let him speak love hearing him all right and the big impact we’re going to have some debates now you’re going to see it bit Sparx are going to fly impact
Or brexit John I know you’re a big fan of brexit I was a big can you believe I was a big supporter of brexit and and and tell us the reason why is this I asked to get the answer you need to ask the question with everything of course
If you got three Deals to choose and you’re only afford to buy one yeah ask the question what’s the easiest deal to do what’s the most profitable it’s not difficult the question I ask myself if we weren’t in Europe now yeah this is back in 2016 or whatever would we join
And if you asked that I did a I spoke at a breakfast meeting in Dober Street Mayfair and when they I was the chairman of the local conservatives in ipswitch at the time and and they said oh don’t talk about property talk about brexit oh Christ really and there was 75 people
There all London people never been out of London you know the type and they did they thought they thought that England stopped on the M this side of the M25 and and literally they booed me to start with it was good fun but it was just banter but they booed literally booed me
And at the end of my check my talk about 40 minutes I gave them at the end of it I said right hands up now if we weren’t in Europe who would join now and very few people put the hand up and that says it all if if you’re in a club
Yeah you don’t want to be in and and and at the end of the day I just felt we we want we want to be in control of our own country why wouldn’t we we’re different to the rest of Europe because we’re an Ireland for a start I just felt we want
To be in control of our now that comes with problems I accept that in so much that because they worried about everyone else coming out they made it they made a example of us if you like but over time that will that will dilute because it doesn’t do them any good either of
Course hold keeping us 180 days in Spain that doesn’t do us any good doesn’t do them any good because we you know who are who owns more property abroad in Europe than than owners than people in the UK no one we’re the biggest homeowners in in Spain the biggest
Homeowners in France and I think second biggest in Italy we can be up there no one bothers about no one wants to live in Germany anyway so you know at the end of the day or Belgium so at the end of the day they they shooting themselves in the
Foot Portugal’s going to be big as well we’re the biggest in Portugal i i i defin we’re the biggest in Portugal 10 year tax breaks and all sorts you can go on about that forever I know so so what I’m say what I’m saying is that’s why I
Was passionate about um having giving having control and there’s good things about it and there’s bad things about it what we haven’t done is taken advantage of them all and that’s that partly because of coid partly because this government is has had all sorts of problems and that’s a shame um it’s a
Real shame because we could lower and this is your department not mine you know Ireland 15 uh 12 12 and a half% capital gains or 13% capital gains or whatever it is we’re 20 we’re going to be 25% it’s Madness we can do what we want within reason the the capital gains
Tax right now for property 18 and 28 and it’s 10 and 20 if it’s that property and this is the problem absolutely corporation tax in Ireland is much lower than us and that’s billion Surplus and what I’ve noticed with Jeremy was he’s changed his position the chancellor on
This because previously he was like drop it drop it no I I I think there is opportunities um I’m not a fan of brexit really yeah I I haven’t been the re really you never made that you never said that before I I always say I’ll be
Honest the reason why I haven’t been is I think the the pressure initially has affected our economy and I that’s not that’s undisable has since no since since coid we have we have we have come back from coid yeah financially now they’re saying better than Germany France Italy and
Spain I think you mentioned earlier our costs are rapidly increased yes are our costs of increased how do you mean our cost a cost of where we getting our um yeah things that’s because we need to we need to do a lot more they’re coming from Europe yeah but we need to
Manufacture more in this country whole point of being out of Europe is that we should be doing much more ourselves I I agree with that but I’m saying to you that this is the yeah a it so there’s these costs that are going to impact and
I think they’ve hurt our economy quite a bit initially is is it going to be better in 5 10 years time I think that’s a different question my question so you’re on my side after all that no I’m not I’m saying 0 to 5 years is affected
A lot no one knows the answer course of course it will because like anything that it’s been a big change and and this government hasn’t really hasn’t really take got to grips with it I I I agree with that and I think this is really useful to understand I think cost and
Supply side has affected us quite a lot because I go into tesos and places like that and I struggle to buy eggs that was not a problem pre- brexit yeah right well you need free rang red from up the farm that’s what you need to do organic
I love it can I just saying this the cues they were talking about from do the big there’s going to be cu’s right up the M20 and all this hasn’t happened it hasn’t happened I think there’s been odd incidents but not only only when the French President made an example of his
Over one Christmas apart it hasn’t happened all the doomsayers what’s everyone’s going to leave the city of London everyone’s going to everyone is going to leave Google have just bu built the biggest office space in London going I I because they know what a fantastic country we
Are I there’s no dispute that UK is a fantastic country and I I’m a huge huge UK fan because I’ve been born and bred here and all our lives but I think one of the issues that we have as London has been affected because I’ve got Financial Services background we’ve had it it’s
Not doing too bad is it it’s it’s been affective because some people making their decision especially the financial service which is huge for our country whether we agree or not we’re we’re Financial capital of the world New York right people have now moved to Ireland and Spain and other places I I was
Working for a Spanish Bank sand at the time and one of the biggest issues was how are they going to do that because Europe has different set of rules than us and this is the the Fallout a bit where it’s affected some of our high Talent that’s not retained in UK because
Of this because they can go so there has been impacts and I think we got to be balanced I’m not saying brexit’s all bad what I’m saying is there’s a lot of issues with brexit Once once it settles down and I think it needs 5 to 10 years
To settle that I think I think I think people will realize what a good decision it was but the 15 years we are losing a lot of money well you say that we lost 100 billion of our those numbers are you say you say all that you say that but it
Turns out we’ve we’ve done they re jig they looked at the figures and realized they made a mistake and we’ve done better than Germany France Spain and Spain and and Italy in in in terms of recovery from coid so I mean we’re not doing too bad I think Co everybody wants
Us everyone not everyone a lot of people in this country all they want to do is SL slag the country off and it’s crazy it’s we we are self we we are self harmers we really are self harmers you don’t get other countries it’s like the
Coid thing it was Dreadful but we said that anyone anyone who died um with coid had died of coid other countries didn’t say that they said well they died of whatever it was they had coid but they died of they were going to died of cancer or whatever we didn’t say that so
Our Figures were loads more I mean we are Bonkers we make everything out to be the worst it could be other countries don’t bother and by the way other countries don’t even half the ru European rules weren’t even taken on by Spain they ignore them so how can that
Be right I I I think there’s a difference between coid and I agree with a lot of stuff about coid and I also agree with you uh on sometimes um we don’t give ourselves um that Balan opinion uh where we don’t where we doing well we don’t uh Embrace that bit you
Only got to look at the news the all all the the news channels most of them are just you know PE I know people who don’t watch the news much anymore because they’re just sick of it sick I I limit watch it um and that’s a shame it
Shouldn’t be like that but it’s it’s fake news a lot of it is there is a I’m not saying it’s fake biased news depends what the editor of the of the show wants to put out but I I think there is a difference I think on what you’ve
Mentioned I think brexit there is certain implications from what I would say as a property person your political view one side as property you’re the brains of this partnership today I you’re the brains you’re you’re the you’re the brain so if you think it brexit’s affected as I I I can’t argue
With that I it has affected I’m sure economically but I think in time that will that will turn around that’s my view I I I think what one of the situations is now or the situation is irrespective of whether it’s been positive or negative it’s there now so
We hope then no one tries to turn it around uh I think we’ve got to we’ve got to look at the situation and try to do the best for our country I think that’s what I agree with you on and I think ultimately for us we have to look at a
Positive line so you agree with brexit after I don’t agree with brexit I agree that that we’re in a situation whether and there’s impacts to it is how do we mitigate it and make the best for the country I think that’s a different convers well we both the difference is
Well no difference we both want the best for the country of course and at the end of the day that’s that’s the most important thing and and yeah that means labor not getting in but I’m afraid I think they will I’ve going to on that one last question and we’re finishing
This been a huge value thank you John so far and the last bit is do you we had a little debate do you believe there’s a recession currently or not I know the num forget the numbers I know I’m a numbers because they have been manipulated what you feel when you’re
Looking around the economy cuz you property is one of the indicators is it yes is Big indicator yeah do you feel that we’re in um well we’re in tricky times of course we are I don’t think um I have a my gut feeling is that um this
Time next year things will look a lot different well there been election any minute I’ll be canvasing on doors uh I think be wasting my time mind you but there we go so but I what I would say is that um the interest rates we have now I
Think are the four what be 5% or whatever five and a half 5 and a qu% are probably not far off what they they should be anyway maybe 4% about ride the fact we were at zero for so long was crackers yeah and the bank of England should have moved much sooner to
Increase them to one one and a half or whatever now well I can’t under you’re the economist not me and the reasons why they didn’t but because they didn’t do that they’ve had to move much quicker and faster and I think everyone was spoiled it was too easy for everyone um
Uh you and I and I we sound old I sound old remember the days it was 10 15% there’s always arguments oh well yeah but proberbly was less money then and all this it might have been but in reality we’re now where we should be I
Mean if you can fix and I think by next year the fix rates will come down a bit in my view if you can fix at four 4 and a half% you’ve done well I fixed uh all my portfolio last year at 4 1% huge value let me unpack that when
You say fix are you talking for 5 years for 15 years 15 wow so John’s not talking 5 years he’s talking about fixing it 15 years I fixed it all 15 4.1% last year and you’re happy with that decision delighted and I can I can I can pay 10% off without any penalties
Per year per year yeah and do you know what take that as one of the golden nuggets of what John is given and when you look through this podcast Johnny’s just put 40 years and wish we could speak for much much longer with John and John’s given us so much Insight is
Unbelievable and when you watch this podcast you’re going to realize the depth experience of this gentleman and why you need to be speaking to people at this caliber or listening to people this caliber because they give you the huge value this is what cuts your learning curve and I speak to so many
Entrepreneurs John and they don’t invest time and knowledge into listen to people and then adapting it to their style because everyone’s in a different part of their Journey but when someone’s here and you’re here you got a huge amount you can learn and use that information
To make and not only that I in the last few years you know speaking these events listening to other people who are speaking and talking to people in the audience I’ve I’ve learned things so it works both ways but you know um if you
Want to hear more from what I do I’m I’m on um Instagram Twitter apparently and also um Tik Tok as well as um my YouTube channel so you know there’s all lots of free information they can get on there so in this pod in the details below and
My team will be doing this we’ll put all John’s details in there so you can contact John um and see all the amazing stuff that John’s doing there’s going to be exclusive stuff around property graduate because when this comes live there’ll be property graduate coming uh
And that’s got a huge amount of value as well and I would ask anyone make sure you follow John because the knowledge and experience as you noticed and he can actually chat yeah you may not agree with everything it may kill you a couple of times of a joke and that
But that’s part of the journey and he will give you huge value John thank you so much it’s been a privilege thank you so much I hope you enjoyed the next level Finance podcast with the legendary John Howard he loves me saying that and
You hear him say a few words now on it but that’s what I was talking about Legend because the value he’s given four decades worth of information to us and high level uh value which you can apply and hope you enjoyed it thank you so much hi everyone I hope you’ve enjoyed
This episode of the podcast we’re doing this to add value to your entrepreneur Journey which just have a quick catch up on this is that just to remind you we got fre business guides in the comments below they got huge value in them for property investors property developers
SAS pensions and if you got growing trading business as well if you after you consume those guides that have got exclusive Sky TV episodes in them please do get in contact with us the contact details are there and we can help shape your entrepreneur journey and unlock Financial Freedom thank you so much
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