Secret to Creating 100 HMO Bedrooms with Mitch Nunn

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Introduction:
00:00 Intro & HMO 1
08:46 HMO 2
31:10 HMO 3
49:17 HMO 4
58:38 HMO 5

Today I am in south end on sea visiting property investor and developer Mitch nun who owns an impressive 11 million property portfolio and is currently chasing his latest goal of acquiring 100 rooms and A1 million rent roll so welcome to the channel Mitch thank you

Very much for having us for the day and uh looking forward to seeing property number one let’s head on in deal with trauma privately I don’t want to be a burden I handle things definely spend a decade searching for a higher power gu of me figured out that

Faith is not up there that is inside of me act with execution what’s a plan with zero action faced with bad talk us through this one by the looks of it you just got the keys yeah so we actually just completed on this this morning so uh perfect timing for

You to come down good timing so this is going to be obviously another HMO anyone watching on the channel obviously Mitch really specializes in hmos now don’t you well yeah I would like to think so but yeah we we are focused on hmos yeah SE generous hmos at the moment so yeah and

This is one we completed on today about 150 square met house on the existing footprint it makes like a seven bed HMO we have got the option to go up into the Loft which would create an additional bedroom which would be an eight bed HMO but we bought this at a really really

Good price um so yes so you were saying you paid 300,000 for this one yep 300,000 and it seems quite good already like instead of having one big sitting room the rooms already split up it’s that quite usual so what you’ll notice as we go around the houses the houses

Are pretty much all the same layout you know they big Victorian houses so you always have bedroom one which would have been the lounge I guess this is generally this looks like it’s been a bedroom but this is usually the diner so this is always bedroom two we always

Take out bre we take those out there’s actually I think about three chimneys we got to take out in here which does create work but we always go back to Bricks we basically strip out the whole house so in terms of the condition we buy at it’s pretty irrelevant okay so if

Anything you want them in a bad way do you yeah exactly I think this one is pretty bad hence why I guess we bought it cheap but this is going to be a good deal so this is basically a chimney Central chimney breast that runs through the whole house oh wow so technically

Once we take that out uh this will be a large communial space of about 26 square meters this is when you taking out the chimney breast in those rooms and this room is that very expensive thing to do it’s labor and obviously the cost to remove but actually what you’ll find is

These will be London Stock bricks so you can actually sell the bricks all right yeah so depends on the red ones you get about 60 60p a brick yeah and the yellow ones you get about a pound of brick so you can actually you can actually offset

Some of the cost in selling the bricks that’s good but but the thing is you’ve got no option you’ve got to remove this because you know you need to maximize the space so and the question I’ve heard or been asked a lot over the last couple

Of years is if you are coming into a house like this that’s been here for 100 years is you then take out the chimney breast which is quite a big part of the house does that affect the structural you know side of it or well I mean to be

Honest this has come up um in recent development so usually we will just remove the chimney breasts and then we will also use sometimes we’ll remove the stack okay or sometimes we’ll use Gallows brackets to um support the stack but on the more recent deals now that

Our building control um won’t allow us to use Gallow brackets you actually have to use a steel steel front to back and then and a steel plate and also now because if you’re technically stripping out the chimney breast you’re technically leaving single skin yes on

On part of it so actually getting us to now rebrick up that void that sits behind the chimney breast as well so it resupport so it’s evolved over the last probably last couple of deals that we’ve done so so like when you do it here you’ll be putting in yeah so obviously

That Central chin bre also will run stills two Steels front to back and then there’ be a steel plate and that was support that up in the right up in the Loft so it’s really interesting that’s good to know um so this is going to be open pled

U we usually block up the single door um window and we um put French doors here okay so that just be one large open plan kitchen Diner the the Gard the garden looks a bit overgrown um I haven’t got the key for the garden but you be see for but um

Yeah so we might go upstairs head on up ultim the goal with these houses is obviously to you’re buying it and you’re not just going for a four or five bed HMO you’re you’re going the full Works to try and get the planning aren’t you

So you want to get at least seven beds is that right yeah exactly so you know the process that we always go through in terms of planning is you know go from C3 single dwelling house to a C4 uh which is sixed HMO yes and then go

For full plan in for the additional bedrooms so obviously in this case if we if we keep it as a seven bed we will um yeah go C3 to C4 six bed HMO and then we’ll go full planning to for the seventh so these houses as I was saying

To you earlier outside like as you drive down these roads yeah they’re perfect for these kind of six seven eight beds that’s the thing I mean you’ll notice I mean we’re going to visit probably four or five today yeah and they’re all within like a two like two minutes from

Each other so again we we always take the chimy breasts out so just to again as well when you’re placing Furniture within a HMO yes it just makes life a lot easier if You’ got a flat wall than than a chimney breast so and when you come to like pricing this so

Let’s say you viewed the property you’re walking around it and you go back obviously to run your numbers are you pricing it per room um like as in like right we normally spend 20,000 per room or you pricing it as an overall project in terms of the cost yes ref cost

Probably just down to experience um because we’ve done so many of these now I mean our cost on this will be about 130 Grand okay and I’ll know that because we’ve done another seven bed up the road and obviously where we’ve got the build team

Um we’ve got labor in house so you know we manage our cost in that in that respect so yeah just from experience really I guess you could work work that back to a cost per room yeah there is always variables within that because in some cases you might have to do a loft

Conversion to create an eth room which it then wouldn’t be of of equal value because obviously a lot of conversions expensive but generally on a seven bed we would be 130 on an8 bed would be about 150 okay yeah give or take five grand probably so we this will actually

Be two bedrooms y so generally you would do a stud stud W off of here split that down so of the seven bedrooms this will be um six on Suites one off Suite so what we have done in the past is we have put an off Suite U just sorry an on

Suite s out on the hallway but this is a bit tight so this is going to have an off Suite downstairs but it will be seven bathrooms okay seven bedrooms so see but you are splitting these into two this is going to be two bedrooms got you

And then the door for this will just come in on there yeah I think we take out part of this wall and that creates the access in we have got the option to to do the eighth bedroom so got good head height in the Loft here so we could

Have a return here on the staircase put the stairs straight up and do an eighth bedroom so we just contemplating that at the moment you know is it do we get in and out seven beds on the existing footprint yeah or do you spend a bit

More time I think it comes down to what’s in the pipeline and well available capital and also what’s in the pipeline if you got other deals to move on to you might but then again You’ probably get 70 80 grand value for the bedroom upstairs on refinance if it’s

Going to cost you 20 to 30 grand to do so if it was your only project bit of a no-brainer if you had the capital to to do it yeah so it pays for itself it’s they doing it when you’ve got lots on I guess yes yeah but if there’s a time to

Do it it’s probably the time if someone had one project on the go and you’re stripping everything back absolutely yeah I mean we always you know sweat the asset right so that’s lemington and we’re heading to yes we’re going to go to kill with Avenue now which is the

Next one but I’m going to drive past another one which I own cool so let’s see how close they are so I own I own this one here this second here no this one here this one 208 with the drive oh yeah so that’s that’s my

One there as well yes that’s a that was my first HMO that’s an eight bed brilliant that’s how comly rented to the NHS that is korth oh wow yeah they they literally are so close aren they easy to Manage cool so we just arrived at project number two which I think as you said it would be the perfect opportunity for us to everything we just talked about in that last house to now show you kind of in action yeah as this one’s currently mid refurb so uh yeah lead us

On through yeah so coming in this is um this is one we’ve we’ve probably been on site about I think this is our eighth week okay wow okay so um in that time we’ve sort of stripped out the house we have uh yeah go around Fireballs started

Forming walls we’re also doing a loft conversion on this project okay so hence the scaffold but yeah we’re doing a fullof conversion which creates two more bedrooms upstairs so so what do you think this one will be a nine or 10 bed so we’ve got a large basement here as

Well so on the existing footprint we could probably with the Loft conversion we’ll probably do an eight bed we can get two bedrooms in the basement to make it a 10 bed and that actually still leaves a 37 squ met open plans kitchen Diner at the back which is like minimum

Space requirements for a one bed flat so it’s it’s a big house this one yeah yeah so coming so coming through so you can hear the work as we going on which is good always a good sign you can see all the fire boarding been done on this one

Yeah so so basically once we strip everything back yeah and as we explained about the the uh chimney breast so obviously we’ve taken out the chimy vest we’ve sold the bricks yes um but also we’ve had to then reblock those up because obviously that would have been single skin behind that just to

Basically support we fireballed all of the existing ceilings and then obviously will use bonding to bond the joints but basically this is going to be bedroom number one this is this is M this is 152 square m um and just to give you an idea I’ve actually just rented a bedroom around

The corner 112 square meters for £1,000 a month jeez ,000 mon is that like an on Suite with a it’s a bedroom with an on Suite this is this is bigger than that this would be £1,000 a month this bedroom when it’s Brant I mean that’s incredible really most of my houses up

North don’t even rent for 1,000 a month that’s crazy I feel I don’t I feel bad charging that but the way I thought about it is that well the market dictates the the rate the market dictates the rate it’s not me 100% And if you think actually for someone else

Who might then if they were to actually rent a flat in this area they might then spend 1,200 plus bills plus the bills in that yeah and you got to then buy furniture or whatever you and whereas here they could probably move in for 12 months it allows for a bit more fluidity

Yeah that’s my argument is that you know the person that’s going to rent this year if they go and buy or rent the flat 1,200 plus the bills you know 14500 you know if you’re on two two and a half Grand a month you you’re potentially

Going to use up 60% of your income you know that the difference of that £4500 is um could the difference between if you eat or not so um so that’s obviously bedroom one this is going to be partition this is bedroom two y um obviously we do back toback on Suites in

The corner uh with this actually on Suites over there because we’ve got this external window so that was one of the things we discussed should we block that up and do back Tob back on Suites but are you going to keep it I’m not sure yet we haven’t started forming down here

Yet we’ve started forming upstairs we can go and have a look okay um so let’s make our way up yeah let’s do that can hear the rain coming down oh yeah it’s even coming in oh yeah literally ruthless yes so where you’re standing there that’s now the door that’s the

Doorway the doorway there comes in so basically what we do is we Fireball the ceilings do the bond in and then we basically take our stud wall up okay so that gives that fire protection yeah rather than do your stud work up to the existed and then Fireball to that right

And then after you’ve done that would you then go do like first fix electrics and pluming yes so because we dropped the ceilings with metal frame so when we do our first fix uh plum in electrics we’ll basically tack to the fireball got you and then obviously we’re going to

Drop 200 mil metal frame and then we’re going to do double Bard on the metal frame so we can run all the services is in the uh in the voids and as well cuz because you’re doing a house 10 bedroom 10 on Suites you know you need to start

Thinking about soil stacks and Wast and obviously sometimes you know we might have to so the on here might have to drop the waist in the void below so with that 200 mil void gives you gives you a bit of flexibility to run the waste pipes and

Stuff so but this is a bedroom that’s a that’s actually a bathroom that is as I say it’s quite looks quite big yeah yeah this is going to be a big bedroom uh we’ve already done the garden we we always when we do the rip out we then do the

Garden good old weather and why did you do that just because it’s much easier to do that first rather than after at the end trying to do the garden at the end well no I mean we got Side Access on this so we could have done it later but

One of the reasons why we did it because we were waiting for to finalize the floor plan and also we were waiting for the structural drawing so sort of our process as what we like to do is when we make an offer on a house we always then

Try and enter into like an exclusivity agreement to sort of tie in okay tie in the seller just in case they pull out they’ have to then cover our cost to up to that point so about Architects survey yeah so survey Architects yeah so really

But I mean that can be a few few thousand so so we do that so once we’re committed we always then get the architect out before exchange to do the full floor plan get all the structural drawing so literally when we complete we can hit the ground running right yeah so

We don’t like to waste any time OB when you’re on bridging Finance time is money so yeah 100% we actually have got a maintenance team now that goes around the hmos and maintains the sites that you hire yeah so we’ve we’ve employed those we’ve got a little van and we got

That maintenance team so they’ll go around on the day you know clean the community areas of the house put the black bags out tidy the gardens that’s a good idea yeah cuz I mean you’ll see on the ones that we’ve done we’re also almost like trying to build a bit of a

Brand around the hmos and do high ends so is that that’s the spaces spaces yeah so that’s a bedroom that’s a a communal toilet that is going to be an off Suite bathroom okay and how many bedrooms will the off Suite serve normally one you know we’ll always go eight bedroom eight

Bathroom MH um but sometimes if it’s a little bit tight one of the bedrooms we’ll have an off Suite yes we just put this in cuz we had when we were doing the Loft conversion we had Steels delivered um and we just wanted to take

Sort of the slack out of that but oh so that come back out yes so this is this is just just coming out but as you can see we forming the on Suite yeah Fireball here this is going to be another great size bedroom as well that’s typically cuz obvious when we saw

The on Suite in that room I was like that’s huge whereas this that’s typically what I more expected this is still a good size for a shower and a toilet and a sink I’m assuming yeah I mean this is a big bedroom so I would say that’s probably quite a large on

Suite as well and generally what you would have generally we would do like an 800 quadrant but this is quite big so we could probably do like a 900 quadrant little sink toilet each one we’re doing we’re like trying to perfect and make that much better in terms of the floor

Pan it’s a little bit on you’ll see on one of the other ones we just finished I wasn’t happy with where the tower R was situated it was it like always in the way so now we’re going to put the tower ril above the toilet oh okay just just

Just just to make it a bit more space so space yeah we’re just this room for example smaller than that front room that we saw downstairs which this is still a big bedroom I reckon this is but it’s 9950 right yeah I was say it’s

Still good size so what would it get so yeah get a th yeah this is a big room so so coming through this is all communial space I’m going to this is a bedroom obviously again forget that yes that’s coming out that’s this this bedroom will have the off

Suite down the hole right okay but this this will probably still rent for 800 a month wow yeah and then coming through again you know what we explained on the other one about splitting the front bedroom into the two yeah this would then be a bed remove

That on suite and as you can see there where we’ve blocked up the blocked up chimy rest so I see what youve done there so rather than it going in line with the window and being a really small bedroom you’ve actually come out with a return which makes so much sense yeah

Yeah you have to do it cuz otherwise that room would be too small so no it’s amazing to see it at this stage in comparison to previous and then obviously when we go on to the next one which is great so if if you Brave up and

Go up the ladders and have a look at the Loft conversion get rained on so the the roof is currently off because you’re you’ve obviously that was just literally a loft space before that was a LOF and you’re going to obviously presumably put obviously a new roof on with a Dorma

Yeah so basically because obvious this is a house so we’re we’re doing the Loft conversion under perm development y staircase is going to go up here so we’ve left this return because sometimes you can squeeze an on Suite here so you can have an on Suite there but obviously

We need the space for the return on the staircase the staircase goes I think it goes up and in and this this is for this forms um two bedrooms up there with two on Sues and the bedrooms are Circa like 9 to 10 square met okay okay smaller but

Still good size slightly smaller but but but good size so um yeah we generally don’t do a bedroom below 8.5 right obviously you can have a single room was 6.4 but we never go below 8.5 obviously to maximize the rense I think they’re they’re fairly undesirable that when

They’re like 6.4 CRM in as well yeah and actually we could have got an additional bedroom down in the open plan space which I’ll show you in a minute but you know we’re trying to create nice spaces for people to live yeah you know so we

Don’t just want to cram all the bedrooms in and maximize like the income and value we are starting to think about you know giving some good quality accommodation so is that the idea behind the the spaces brand to kind of go look we’re creating really good co- living

Yeah exactly that you know we want to kind of get a reputation and we want people to want to stay in one of our houses yeah um and hopefully you’ll see that in the ones that we have finished but yeah that is the idea behind it so

Cool you want to go upstairs uh let’s do it yeah you’re going to be right carrying that up there coming up Boys so the stairs are going to come up there and probably at an angle come up and there’s a return yeah obviously we got vux going in here we have create this little detail there’s going to be a little window at the front but ultimately it’s going to be a big dma on

The back across the the whole link this the whole width of the back yeah so we’ll create yeah two 9 square meter bedrooms with two on Suites so but this is a really good space so you know when we saw how much space was up here we were like you know two additional

Bedrooms so on your refinance that might be 150 Grand of value yeah you know so if you’re you know you know you you’ll you’ll be able to cover the cost and get some money back back in terms of your refinance and you know for those two bedrooms you’re probably going to be you

Know 800 quid a bedroom you know 1600 quid so P profit I guess once you’ve got it refinanced and rented as well isn’t it yeah it’s probably probably 20 grand a year of income up here so i’ love to ask you a bit more about like the length

Of time for refurb yeah because when I’m doing them up north obviously I’m doing like a two or three bed Terrace house right but we can turn around in like eight weeks or 10 weeks these are huge and you’re stripping them back like um taking out fireplaces and so what kind

Of time frame are you looking at generally I give the guys 21 weeks okay so the next one we’ll go on to haygate which is a seven bed HMO no extension but that was 21 weeks the one we did before that which was an8 bed we did 21

Weeks we will need a little bit longer on this one cuz this is a 10 bed yeah with the basement uh it’s a much bigger house I think we’ve said possibly about 26 might even go to 30 because we have got the work in the B basement but

Generally as a rule of fun we will I’ll say five 5 months 21 weeks we always on our um bridging facilities we always allow like 9 months okay just because obviously we’ve got to go through planning as well but what we like to do is complete them in five months be

Dressed and fully rented out by month six so at least we can start offsetting the U loan interest o over that sort of time so we only really play loan interest for about six months on like a 9 month term and in terms of like

Renting them out is it like they all go like that or it take a few weeks we have a house rented out in probably a couple of weeks yeah St I mean obviously working professionals and we’re achieving really good room rents I mean I think the cheapest room £ 750 goes up

To like ,000 a month so but there is such demand for them if you put an ad on you’ll have a 100 applicants right yeah so it’s it’s crazy at the moment you got work through all of those applications that’s not my job no yeah you the

Letting agent I use the letting agent for everything yeah yeah basically I’ll manage the developments up to the point where we are done I’ll hand the keys over and uh yeah I don’t want to know about the property again I just want to receive the rent statement and that’s

The way I see it you know if we start getting into management of properties and you creating sort of the operational drag you know I think I did a a real uh the other day which basically said about five five uh sort of tips to grow like a multi-million pound property portfolio

And U one of the tips was you know Outsource your management I think as soon as you get into start managing your let and management it’s um yeah just creates operational drag and you just won’t scale yeah so beyond the point of we’re done Han the keys open yeah just

Just move on no I completely agree obviously I’m a very different you know smallest um place to where you are but like I that’s exactly the model I follow I could say like being the investor rather than being the landlord isn’t it like I want to continue growing it

Rather than managing it yeah it’s difficult cuz you you do get you do have emotion of you know cuz where you’re here you’re seeing it you’re you know all your ideas we’ll do that here this is the way we’re going to address them so you do have an emotional attachment

To the properties but you kind of almost be on that point you just have to forget about it it’s just an investment it’s purely numbers rent it out and just forget about it cool no I’m glad I asked that that’s good to know so yeah if we

Um head into the living areas U yes this is going to be the open plan um kitchen Lounge Diner but as I said earlier this is 37 square meters this is what you would allow for like what a minimum space requirement of a one bed flat we could have actually squeezed in a

Bedroom yes in here and pushed the communial space back there but again because we want to create nice spaces for people to live we don’t want to cram the rooms in so we just thought you know what we’ll make it a really nice space uh so we had an existing wall here which

We put a steel in punch through there was all there was a little mini extension on the back okay so you just haven’t like did you take the roof off and haven’t it rebuilt yeah so the head height here is a lot higher than through there that was a reduced head height so

As you can see here we’ve started to block up yeah um and then we’re going to reinstate the roof so that head height basically flows through we put a little glass Lantern in there as well so just makes it nice and again you can see the garden now

Just so the kitchen be in this fit or this the kitchen is going to wrap around there so basically as you can see we we always block up the windows to allow for the for the kitchen worktops generally the kitchen will WRA around there and again you’ll see this in one of the

Other ones we’ve done the exact same thing so the kitchen will wrap around there generally the sink sinks under the window yeah we use break up the space by doing like an island or return on the on the kitchen which you’ll see at the other one so

Yeah it’s just a really good space so with um the basement you obviously kind of mentioned that you might not do it straight away yeah what would we do instead um yeah so well our idea is because we’re creating cool spaces with the brand spaces um we just might do a

Communial space down there we have spoke about maybe like a little communial gym or Cinema room or something like that because as you’ll see in the mdle there’s a lot of space down there but we’re a little bit unded we’re about to instructor planning consultant on this

Because there is quite a few steps so I think what we would have to do to get the 10 beds approved is when we go from C3 to C4 up to six bed HMR I think we will have to have the two basement rooms as rooms under PD right okay and then

Scale up from that point obviously that’s why we’re going to instruct a planning consultant because they’ll be yeah they’ll need they’ll need to do a bit of homework on this one I think in terms of feasibility but after the seven bedrooms yeah let’s say you went and did another

A 12 bed is there any additional fire EGS or is it literally like right you know as long as you meet your seven bed and you know kind of that level I don’t I don’t believe so no we haven’t spoken about any additional um fire requirements on this but what I have

Heard is that when you go to nine bed and above there is additional work in uh your s sap calculations to make make the home more energy efficient oh I see so it might be a case that we might have to uh insulate on the outside and render

The house okay which could need doing anyway so we have spoken about that but again that’s something we’ll address as in when we need to so so what are they digging down here here for so we’ve we’ve had to do trial pits to see how deep the foundation goes because

Obviously as you can see we’re standing here and we’ve got quite okay head height but we’re not insulated so we basically need to remove or dig down and strip out and then basically build back up so obviously we’ll have our obviously we’re going to have some form of tanking

And then our celex insulation screwed and basically we’ll take it away and rebuild it back up yeah to give us our head height which should be I think about 2.2 I’m not too worried about this cuz this is we got stud wo here so this is where this is

Where the room split so this is a room and then that is a room yeah uh but there’s such a good space here that it’s a shame just to leave it yeah so we want to we want to create some value and and so yeah hence why we we’ve dug that out

But and are you ever worried when doing like basements about like damp would you just have it fully tanked and well to be honest I’ve never done one before yes this is our first wi and I must admit you know we need to look at we might

Have to bring in an external contractor for that to do the tank in because the guys haven’t done it before so you know we’ll bring in the experts but in terms got some really good light Wells front and back um if you look further down the road one of the houses has actually

Converted this in I guess into a studio a one bed flat cuz they’ve got a staircase that comes down door rear and that might have been the full process behind the previous owner with the door with the door there they’ve got a letter box as well yeah so we could maybe make

This like a studio possibly a one bed I don’t know what the size is down here but could make a one bed so we have got a little access through here but that’s reduced head height so we’re going to use that as like a plant room I think

The house just works really well even if it was an eight bed I mean of what we’ve seen 37 square meter communial space and then you know had this as like a cool you know snug Cinema communial gym sort of thing I think it’d be a really really

Good house so yeah it’s like um it’s not a necessity to do this area as bedrooms is it no you’re going to get enough out of the house probably exactly yeah and you know the numbers we’re achieving on the commercial refinances even as an eight bed you know it might be an all

Money out deal but we’ll see good the I want ask we touch on the numbers in a bit yeah yeah so to round up this house before we then move on to the next one we got a few more to see um I want to

Know the numbers on this one so yes we bought this house for 375 375 yeah um obviously we are doing a loft conversion on this I think the cost would be about 150 okay something like that and obviously depends on what we achieve in terms of the room I think as a minimum

It will be an eight beds an eight bed will get valued I’ve just had one around the corner valued at 675 actually had the value back today this is actually a better house in terms of it’s much bigger the rooms are bigger we’ll have probably a better rental income y youve

Got a large communial space plus the basement so I reckon this will probably start with a seven I think this will be 700 Grand upwards and for anyone watching cuz obviously I have covered this in a previous video that there’s kind of two big differentiating valuation TS is there bricks and mortar

Or there commercial what you’re doing here is going for commercial obviously valuation which they work out on a multiplication of the combined rent over a year exactly that it will be the value will be based on the income that the house generates and the valuation model or metric that you know surveyance and

Valuers used for that you know does change is subjective in terms of values but yeah it will be ultim based on the income so so whereas you’ve you’ve paid 75 the normal value of this house in this road could would that have been like maximum 500 or no I think I think

Just I think as a have cuz they are stun in big victori houses I think this house probably done would probably be 550 575 okay um so obviously yeah to get it to a seven how do you have the confidence that you’ll get the seven at the end is

It like do you get a pre valuation done before you come in and spend that money or yeah so obviously we we raise money to buy these so we use development Finance so we buy the house and then obviously we um obviously they also fund the build cost as well so a surveyor

Comes out initially for that initial loan okay and they will value it um I can’t remember the numbers on this but I think I think as a nine bed they valued this as 750 wow from memory um again when we’ve gone to Paragon on the refinances we’ve

Got a slight down value on those but not by a lot so that are the sort of numbers we’re achieving obviously if you’re buying the house of 375 and spending 150 you know these are almost working as all money out deals for us sometimes we are

Leaving a bit in there is obviously a bit of cost around that so when you think about the fact the finished product you’ve stripped it all back you’ve made it into you know really well performing asset and then to to leave a bit of money it’s end world that’s I

Think you always get all of your money back out after year one by the time you’ve had a year of rental income yeah generally you’ll be you know an all money out deal so hey next to rock like Mick fo it’s Nicky kill Him Softly play that

Slowly on the keys like Tony throwing Subs they get toasted about my bread like so project number three and only just again another like two minutes around the corner so they’re all really toast together and this one literally couldn’t be closer to it’s up like The

High Street the town sou High Street yes the Town Center which um I’m sure only goes in the favor of HMO here in terms of demand but this one is finished and just going on the letting Market yeah so as you can see from the boxes we’re now

Building Furniture so this was a 21 we project again um we didn’t have to do an extension on this but I bought it pre pre-auction stripped it back to Brick and justly reformed so actually this house was actually already recognized a C4 so I think it must have been a HMO

Previously interesting an investor must have sold it to a just a single guy who lived in it with his wife but they never then turned it back to a C3 single dwelling so obviously on my planning process on this one I went straight from C4 to full planning because it’s seven

Bed um so it was like one less step in the process but yeah this is um yeah 21 weeks we finished building furniture and um we’ve marketing it now and we’re starting to have viewings for the room so okay it it be great to have a look

Around yeah so this is again bedroom one this is sort of standard standard fit out so I have to say I’ve been in obvious a lot of refurbs up north down south and the actual finish is very high quality and what I mean by it even small

Things like the AR Traves of skirting I’ve seen some really wonky stuff over the years and like it’s really good isn’t it yeah the feel is well I mean these These are old Victorian they’re stunning houses so we try and retain you know a bit of character within them

Rather than you know always just think about like what is the cheapest cost we like to actually you know and you’ll see that by the front door actually the cost to sort of renovate that front door strip it back paint it new locks new glazing all that probably was the cost

Of a you know of a of a composite new front door but you can’t beat a bit of a like of an original feature but this is a sort of this is the bedroom so this is the sort of this is the sort of standard but um and the small things you saying

For example on the outside which will show um some b-roll ofs like you’ve got really nice black skirting black doors but perhaps on the inside of a bedroom it’s a little bit too harsh you’ve G why so you’ve obviously thought about this or tried well I know that cuz I made the

Mistake yes so in the one we did prior to this in one of the bedrooms we did yeah in the bedroom black ARS black doors black skirting I was like it’s just it’s just too harsh for a bedroom I think in the communial spaces it looks looks really good and actually now we’ve

Got the contrast I think it works really well we still do obviously the black door but yeah obviously if you if you open that we’ve also got the on Suite um so before we do there would have been a fireplace yeah so the fireplace would have been there so obviously you know if

You’d have kept that in would have been very restricting but obviously we’ve stripped that back and we always put in like a kitchenet slash work space so you do that in every room if you can if we can get away with it we will always do this that’s just like an under the

Counter fridge um a little bit of storage obviously yeah as you obviously you’ll need um like minimum space requirement in terms of like cupboard space for each room so generally that will be every room needs like 500 mil um base cupboard or 1,000 mil wall unit so

We’ll do that do a little bit of paneling just just to give it something um and then we just do you like a smart TV so you’ll provide the TV we provide the TVs yeah which yeah so you got beds Chester drawers Chester drawers bedside cabinets we got a wardrobe that just

Been delivered I think today okay um so give them everything yeah we so in terms of the bed we will provide the bed the mattress a mattress protector but we won’t Supply the bed in so when someone moves in they have to supply their own

Bed in that’s fair is it um just because but I think we’ve even done like little details like this because these are upvc so you would just do like plastic trim yeah but we’ve actually done like architrave details we’ve actually done like a nice detail down here no looks

Brilliant again we’re just going that next level we also do vinyl laminate flooring um again because yes you can can do normal laminate or but you know this is really hard wearing and we’re getting this at a good price at the moment so we used to buy this from Howen

About 30 p a square meter but we’ve got like a Lo local um company now that’s supplying this at about 13 pound a square meter wow and and and so this is rather than tug Groove this is all stuck yes so if any of it’s damaged we can

Basically cut it out and replace it you like heat it up don’t you take yeah so I just thinking about that sort of stuff well I mean actually still still a lot of room I mean this is this is obviously you were mentioning moving the hand but

I mean I guess only because it’s created issues on this one yeah hence why we’ve had to do those little tiled areas there move them off but that’s a 900 shells that’s what and again you know a lot of people will just shower the the um shower enclosure but then leave the rest

Obviously we do half height tiing all the way around it’s just small things that make it look really small smart don’t they and it’s just you know we’ve got to think about longevity as well we’re going to hold these assets for you know tens of years yeah you know so you

Know we always think about the longevity side of it you know spend a little bit more now do it right once and you know not have to come back in a few years and redo it so also if someone’s got HMO down the road with no one sweet or a

Half half-hearted job they’re in a bit of a tough job competing with you well this is the thing I mean this room you don’t get the full effect until you see a real like nice dressed room with all the but this is um yeah then we do the

Digil loocks so got digilock obviously you have to have these do with regulations have to have door closes yeah um and does each room got like a fire alarm system each room’s got fire detection yeah uh we also run uh data points to the rooms we’ve also got like

Ubiquity Wi-Fi discs on the communal floors okay at each level just you get Wi-Fi each level wow that’s good rather than which you’ll see in the hallway there so moving out yes you’ll see the Wi-Fi disc there oh yeah and I see you’ve got um CCTV yeah we always put a camera on

The front door and is that just to keep an eye on who’s coming in and out yeah and I guess it gives the occupants like that sense of security as well yeah you know I mean I I have Security on my house yes so why would you not want

Security on you know stay on your HMO but this is about 26 square m so as you can see now if you think back to kill if the one we just come from you know you’re going to get that space there with the kitchen blocks up the windows

Ex sinks onto the windows there obviously because it’s such a large space we’ve done a return to sort of split the area up yeah W honestly this is this is brilliant where’s the kitchen from that’s all howdens so Howden yes looks really smart again then this is a communial space communial

TV couple of stalls and then like a nice big sofa little coffee table how much do you think you spend on like Furnishings in terms of like sofas beds well the one I did last I probably was a bit Overkill but I think I think for that was an eight bed and I

Think it worked out um about 10 grand so I think it worked out about I think about 1250 a room but that is like fully dressed even to the point I was doing you know like pictures and dressy parts and stuff like that which actually I felt like people would want that but

What I’m seeing now is actually people want to move in actually they want to take that out of the of the room so I’m actually in this house I’m going to do all of the furniture and I’m going to dress that bedroom one yeah as like the

Show as the show bedroom and I’ll just do that one get the marketing material but you know I won’t dress all the others so obviously again we did like the courtyard style Garden yeah it looks really similar to it’s a much smaller Garden but again for HMO it just works

And obviously one of the planning conditions will be that we’ve obviously got a bike store soz that’s one of the conditions they put is it just someone’s got yes we have a so a bike store bin store so when you go to sui generous um hmos yeah that would expect you to have

A bin store bike store and actually when I was looking through a lot of uh planning sort of cases for seus hmos if they are um declined a lot of it comes down to like a technicality whereby the architect hasn’t you know stated there

Will be a bin store or a bike store or one or one of the rooms like fall under like minimum space requirements so yeah bin store bik store are quite important so I sold five places out there yeah we collecting those I think I’ve got about

Seven now don’t say that people will be messaging I know well well please do I need to sell them we we’re collecting them honestly that the the quality of the Finish um is is really impressed me you know being here but also seeing like how streamline everyone’s just about

Working on the different projects that’s really cool yeah we we have got a good team I’m you know I’m very fortunate but you know we’ve had to learn on the job learn on the job I mean it’s not you know and look I mean I might look like

The expert but I’m no no means like the finished article I mean every every job I learn something new yeah that’s that’s the beauty of property I guess you’re always learning so 100% see in like a kitchen on like a you know a house obviously it’s seven beds plus yeah

Again for it to be a commercial HMO am I right thinking you’ve got to have like the jewel sinks the jewel ovens the jewel washing is that right I obviously I can see it in front of me but yeah that would be the requirement I mean obviously you know if you’re going to

Get into these size hmos you know study you know the national guid lines for hmos because it will state all of that in terms of room sizes if you’ve got a room and a toilet you know all different because hmos that they vary so you might

Have on Suites off Suites you know you might have kitchen Nets and but generally yeah as you go Su you you double up on everything so I mean you got double fridge freezers there right double fridge freezer double sink double washer dryer yeah so that will wash and

Dry um double oven and then obviously you’ll need cupboard space for for each occupant so yeah I mean great facilities as I think I think this whole kitchen I think cost about 12 Grand okay which is actually there’s a lot in it there’s a

Lot there’s a lot in it so um and then obvious then we do the Little Kitchen Nets as well but I mean you can see the level of you know CU again people don’t see that they just think oh what seven on Suites but you know the level of

Detail that goes into um something like this because obviously if everyone wants to shower at the same time you’ve got to have seven water ask you about that today yeah so wow yes so obviously in killworth it will go down in in the basement out the back here here we’ve

Had to create this space um luckily on the other one we go to in a minute it’s got a basement as well so we generally store these in the basement but yeah I mean that everything all your the fuse box so that’s just too that’s like the old traditional style of

Tank where it you know boil the hot water at certain times and keeps it yeah exactly so it yeah and then obviously we have remote monitor thermostats so you know schedu it so come on in the morning come on at night but you can boost the

Hot water if you need to so yes we we also put commercial carpet tiles down in the uh communal areas and we also do like like ster noosing yeah just because it’s more like hardwar and it gives it more of that commercial feel especially if we’re going to try and Achieve

Commercial valuations yeah yeah I think it makes sense for the longevity of the building as well so you don’t have to come in every six months to replace the car repl the carpet and again if someone you know spills something or stains we can just cut that tile out and replace

It rather than replace the whole lot but been going back to your fire question yep Co point at the top one but we’ll go into one of the bedrooms just so you can see um I’ll show you the bedroom five again just like little detail like that just

Oh yeah yeah door number got three bedrooms within this small small bit which is great yeah that looks really nice up bit there so um obviously for the most part obviously again like another really good room very similar to one downstairs I guess so talking about um the actual

House itself then do you mind going over the numbers on this one yeah so purchase price yes I bought this pre-auction 340 yeah um I’ve spent about 130 on it does that include the fit out uh not the furniture no 130 in terms of the work yeah and I’ve just had the valuation

Back today from Paragon uh 610 this would have been the master bedroom and a bit like the last house you you split the rooms and done that kind of return off the bay yes you can see that now but I mean they are all slightly different

And you could really tell like if you had that fireplace it would really imp just wouldn’t yeah you wouldn’t get the room size but um again you’ve got some really good detail there nice light room this do you have like a specific supply for furniture or do you just just online

But I’m actually looking to partner with someone because what I would like to do from our side I’m just thinking as well as we scale up do the house send the floor plans to a furniture company and they basically come down dress it all so it like almost yeah because if we’re

Going to scale up you know we’ve got killworth which is 10 bedrooms lemonon which is seven I’ve got another one under offer which is seven I’ve got planning in for a 12 bed I would yeah if we’re going to scale up we need to sort of and that’s probably

The most stressful part of it so after the development that’s when I have to get involved right buy furniture Buy TVs dress it what do you want to yeah so if we want to scale up we need to sort of overcome that I guess yeah of it see

Yeah thinking about more you know yourself and your background cuz I think that’s if someone’s watching they get to see your projects but they don’t always get to see like who’s Mitch or you know you as a person yeah I did a bit of research obviously I heard that you um

Built up and sold a locksmith business yes I’m actually a locksmith Yeah by trade yeah yeah so um yes I just left scor 16 just wanted to work I think at that point I said you know I want to go out and do sales and I remember guys to

The job center and they said oh well there’s this job at a locksmith shop you could do sales and also learn a trade so I thought well that makes sense so yeah was a locksmith probably late teens early 20s and then you know left there set on my own locksmith business yeah

But then that kind of evolved I then met a partner which was Neil and then I sort of folded my locksmith business into a larger sort of facilities management/ security business and yes that was 2012 and we kind of scalled that up over 10 years um you know we had like 25

Employees probably did like three and a half million a turnover and then we exited that so we sold the business in 2021 and I had to work till 2022 March 22 Yeah so and obviously I’ve been unemployed now for about about a year unemployed unemployed fun employed

Fun employed yeah um yeah so I did that but also we set up another business um I think it’s 2014 um and we exited that as well which was a residential block management company right in this area yeah all over essic really so we had about 60 sites

2,000 units and we said sold that to um like a nationwide uh property management company um in 2019 so yeah I’ve yeah set up and scaled and exited two businesses um I kind of did a little bit of property on that on the side of that but obviously now I’m i’ obviously

Exited the business I’m now full-time property so but when you say a little bit of property I still feel like it’s a little bit it’s like you mentioned Portsmith and Warrington yeah so I mean that’s where I first bought property down in ports so had about 15 to 18

Properties um I have been selling those off because I’ve been in my personal name right um and but I’ve also got about 30 properties in Warrington and then I’ve got a lot local so that’s almost my two strategies now you know buy up in the Northwest I know that you

Invest in the Northwest so purely Buy in the Northwest purely for yield so as we said you know you achieve like n and a half 10% gross yield you know I know we was getting mortgage rates at like three 4% I know that’s you know five six% now

But um I would just buy out their pure for yield no work just buy something buy to let rent it out and obviously good capital appreciation expected there over the uh over the next you know decade or whatever I mean one of one of the things

I was hoping for was hs2 yeah because you was going to be able to train from Warrington to London in an hour and 10 minutes but obviously rishy uh scuppered that plan um so yeah so that my two strategies buy up North for yield and

Then you know do the sort of brr or developments locally to sort of you know increase values and refinancing are you still buying up there or have you just not as much so uh I achieved 30 by the end of last year and on my goals was to

Achieve get to 50 this year to buy another 20 but I think I’ve not actually completed on any yet but I’ve got two going through at the moment so I’ll be about 32 but again just with the change in landscape obviously interest rates changed you know so when you’re paying a

6% you know mortgage rate and achieving n it is a little bit tighter but obviously you would be buying for like a longer term view so obviously as interest rates come back down um they’ll perform a lot better they will perform a lot better and actually then you can buy

Them a bit better now so but again we’re achieving the rain we’re achieving such good yields locally for the hmos that is my S focus at the moment really silence but I keep pushing my P rotating my stylus BR feeling like I no FL D sweet well we’re at project number

Four aren’t we I think that’s four yeah so this one isn’t only finished but it’s up and running yeah and it’s partly tenanted at the moment so cool sofa s obviously in the other one probably a bigger sofa isn’t it it it’ll be bigger but again same same style again look

Same same same kitchen same appliances you know if if it works don’t fix it that’s it yeah I think it looks really really nice but this this is about 20 square meters so the other one’s about 26 so it’s a nice yeah it’s a bit bigger but still a great

Space and the numbers on this one I actually bought this for 400 which was more than the others but at the point I had Capital available and I had a team ready to go yeah 400 I think we spent about 150 so five probably about

550 yeah um just had a refinance um or evaluation come through today 675 with with Paragon so um why think this one’s come back at 675 the other other one at 610 or not not why do you think what’s the reason oh this this one

Is an 8 bed HMO the other one was a seven bed so again you know it’s commercial valuation this one would generate more rent because of the additional bedroom and you know thus you know a high valuation so and for anyone that’s watching and maybe wondering like

In terms of obviously not to get too personal but in terms of like the finance to deposit you know putting a deposit down yeah so if you’re buying them with bridging which we’ve discussed and you down 30% is that money that you’ve had from like is that from like

Selling the business as we discussed is it from other property you know yeah I think it was well it’s from selling the business um so yeah on this one we just ijust did a bridge and I funded the works myself okay uh whereas on hega the

One we just come from I did development Finance on that which was like 70% of the purchase and then 100% of the bill cost yeah um so it because obviously A lender will only lend you based on the planning that it has mhm so obviously where we going through the

Steps of the planning they would only lend on this up to a six bed HMO because that’s what it would be under PD so they would only lend on this based on 550 which you know if you start then asking for development costs against 550 makes your day one loan really small got

So sometimes it makes sense to fund the bill cost yourself sometimes it makes sense to borrow the money but it all depends ultimately on the price you pay for the house yeah so lemington when we went to First that house was 300 Grand so because the house is a lot cheaper we

Could even if we value it as a PD six bed HMO MH it still makes sense for us to borrow the bill cost because we paid a lot less for the house right okay so but if you bought one you haven’t got the planning yeah to do it then to go

And ask them for 100% of the development cost is a lot harder or it’s not yeah you you they would only lend you based on what the plan in it has so if you want to go for seven or eight bed but they’ll only lend you based on a

Six bed valuation because that’s what you can achieve under PD unless you did it like subject to with the vendor yeah go through the planning steps first once you’ve got planning then purchase it and you’d be able to borrow against the full end value right right if that makes

Sense so and if it does have the planning they’re fairly open to it or is it really hard to get nice I mean it’s yeah it’s just development Finance so you know they they basically lend 70% of purchase 100% of Bill cost but up to 65%

Of gdv okay so so if it goes above that they’re not comfortable cuz it’s so that would just restrict it so ultimately when you’re working out your numbers you basically work out 65% of your NG gdv yeah there’s lots of numbers in here 65% of gdv and then basically work backwards

So you would then take out your build cost take out your loan interest over the term yeah and then basically you would basically work out what your day one loan would be against the property that’s the exercise so yeah yeah but I think the model which is so interesting

About you know commercial HMO is that getting a massive discount of the purchase price is less of a concern obviously you want to buy at the right price yeah but when I’m doing like a two- bed Terrace or three bed Terrace it’s like pivotal I have to get a

Discount yeah because there’s only one end value it can really be yeah and there’s only one thing I can really do unless I want to start extending which often isn’t worthwhile so then I have to make sure we have to get right we have to get this discount whereas here it’s

More can the house take you know is it the right size can it be a eight seven or an eight bed HMO and therefore I guess rather than yes you obviously need to get well not need to but try to get a discount yeah but

It’s less the thing I mean I I I think this strategy almost Falls within a bit of a niche yeah because someone that wants to buy this house and you know value as a house obviously you’re not going to achieve the value of a SE

Generous 8 bed HMO even if you want to convert to Flat you probably won’t get the end value so and then people you know there’s not many people doing hmos to this sort of size so almost I mean that’s maybe why we’re picking up houses in the area because actually funny enough lemington

That we went to uh we purchased for 300 Grand someone messaged me and said oh we were looking at that we think it’s only worth 285 and I’m thinking to me that’s an all money out deal so it’s um I think it’s almost a nation we spoke earlier about property strategies and what’s

Working at the moment with interest rate you know the interest rate environment of where we are at the moment and I I think hmos are great um and therefore I mean exactly what you just said it gives you a competitive Advantage I think because then anyone else that’s looking

At it as a flip as a smaller HMO you I mean they they’ve got less of an advantage yeah I mean our other competitive Advantage is the in-house build team well yeah because people come and go what’ you spend on this I’m like 130 they went no way like we just I can

I’ve got the team we can convert them quickly and also we can manage all of the cost and obviously the more we do the rates we get so yeah yeah the more the uh economies of scale guess it exactly cool all right um yeah let’s

Head over to up to that room yeah I’ll take you upstairs see a room dressed that’s a big basement down there I won’t tell you in there but that’s it’s not it’s nowhere near as big as um kill it’s got reduced head height as well is that where you put the tanks yes

Yeah that’s a good use of space in for that isn’t it so did you convert The Loft on this one or was it already done oh I’m out of breath now yeah so the house had two rooms in The Loft but where you see this pitch come down so the whole

Roof was like that which meant restrictive floor space for bedroom eight so we basically punched out the Dorma that gives us a much better bedroom but I can take you in both of these yeah um oh yes this is the like the different furniture that you were talking about yeah again

We’re just you know we’re playing around with sort of styles and feels and that looks really smart I dressed every room to this standard whether you need to go to this level I think I’ll do as we said earlier I’ll do one room to show what it

Could look like and then it’s up to people what they want to do with it so yes and then yep same again yeah that’s a really good use of space so this would be or this is being advertised for how much I think this would be 900 wow yeah so rents are

Really strong in this area so this is the one we red for £1,000 intrigued to see this one it’s probably not that much bigger but I mean it’s very quirky it’s cool isn’t it being up in this yeah it’s amazing to get ,000 isn’t it I guess you

Could go straight from C3 to Su generous HMO yeah you know to save time but one of the concerns is that you know the council might turn around and say oh well actually know it’s a loss of a family home whereas if it’s already a recognized C4 it’s already h

Um and also going from a six bed to an 8 bed or a six bed to a seven bed is going to be a lot easier than a C3 up to an 8 bed HMO so so if you wait a couple of months in between then you submit your

Planning mhm you as you think you’ve already mentioned earlier on you’re still going ahead of all the building Works what happens if you get to like the end and you’re ready to rent it but the planning is not signed off we just rent six of the bedrooms got it yes we

Still apply for our HMO license as an 8 bed HMO mhm but we only occupy six of the buildings until planning comes through but obviously the idea is that when we rent six of the bedrooms we’re offsetting the loan interest on the bridging finance and if we convert in a

House within five months and then say a month to dress and rent you know we’re only paying interest on six months of the facility we start generating income from that point as well if you don’t get planned in first time around you have to go to appeal obviously you want to be

Rented out through that period as well so you you even be cash flowing through that even on the bridge yeah but the idea is to you know try and get planned so no that’s great I think that’s I mean like if I was about to go and do one

That’s I’d be concerned about all the more yeah details like that like and how do you keep the project moving so it’s not sitting there on a bridge for a month empty so that’s yeah it’s really interesting banana berries and smooth medal overated the gelato is white

Cherries yeah I’m more than fad dri off in the Five series this is going to be another seven bed see going to be another seven bed probably we just do is a seven bed but we have got the option to go up into the Loft and make it an eight bed but again

Nice property paying a little bit more for this one over lemonon but I think it is a better house in terms of what it is it’s obviously I guess is it semi detach rather than yeah uh rather than mid Terrace again it’s just that same layout bedroom one bedroom two take out the

Central chimney rest open plan kitchen upstairs bedroom so it’s just so they’re so deep aren’t they the houses cuz you look from the front you think was quite narrow but then they go back so far they’re just really deep I mean that must have had a double story rear

Extension but oh yeah um it’s not worth doing is it no not to Nick that a little bit but again you know knock that through French doors out the back again nice big Garden so if someone was obviously we spent the day we’ve talked a lot about the projects we talked about

Financing them different things but if someone is near the start of their Journey yeah or if you were near the start of your journey let’s say there’s fre frame it like that yeah would you where would you say is the best place to start would you jump straight in with

Hmos would you go down the route of B toet BR what’s your views yeah I mean it’s like when it’s like when the message someone says to me oh I want to get into property and that’s almost like saying I want to play sport it’s like well which

One because there’s so many different strategies and I think there’s questions you have to ask yourself first to establish what strategy is best yes and that can be you know do you have access to Capital how much time do you want to spend on the property how much experience do you have

You know what is your end goal is it is it a flip do you want or do you want capital appreciation or do you want yield do you want to leave your job and then you need to ask all those questions you’ll come back to something but I do

Think that you know we spoke about the entry level strategies at the moment which is basically you know rent to rent or deal sourcing M if You’ kind of walked through those if you’ve acquired a few boletes and you’re looking to maybe step up your game I think maybe

You could start with a PD HMO scheme so you have some HMO experience a lendable like that before you then step up into the Su generous HMO so you know I didn’t start at8 bed hmos I had bu toets I did a house to two flat conversion a couple

Of times so you know lenders like that sort of experience ladder where you’ve gone through the process you know if you jump from a buy and a BCT to a SE generous HMO they will ask questions so yeah I just think you know take your time and learn on each deal

And you know you become more experienced and then step up to this sort of thing um agree I think that’s a really you’ve answered that in the best way possible because it’s a very generic question and it’s you kind of subject to knowing so much about someone’s personal lifestyle

But um yeah I think for anyone looking to do this size of projects I I’ve learned so much today and I think they really do have to follow you and I think this is a great time to plug it that you’ve got a YouTube channel you’re documenting these projects aren’t you

Yeah and you’re going into some of the niche topics like fire EGS and stuff like that around it as well so um so yeah how how can they find you yes I’m most active on Instagram which is um my my handle Mitch nun on my YouTube I’m

Mitch nun property yeah and like I said I’ve probably got a handful of videos there which I’m looking to scale up and you know hopefully there’ll be lots of value withinin what I’ve done already and you what I continue to do but yeah probably best probably in I’m most

Active so okay yeah well I thank you you know very much for showing me around all these projects today it’s been so insightful and um I think I’ve learned so much just from being here being so I highly encourage anyone to follow you and just want to say you know thank you

For your time thank you pleasure