Could the EU’s FIFA/UEFA Ruling Change Pro Cycling? | THEMOVE+

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin of the Beyond the Peloton newsletter break down how the recent ruling from the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), which effectively declares that rules from football (soccer’s) governing bodies, FIFA and UEFA, restricting breakaway competitions aren’t allowed by EU law, could alter the professional cycling landscape and give the recently proposed One Cycling breakaway league a significantly increased chance of success. They also discuss the logic behind the decision from two of the sport’s biggest stars, Tadej Pogačar and Wout van Aert, to race the Giro d’Italia, and if it signals a slight shift in the balance of power in the sport.

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Everybody Welcome to the move today we are going to quickly discuss how the European Court of justices recent ruling on UEFA and FIFA’s Monopoly power over the soccer Universe could have major implications for the future of professional cycling but first let’s hear from our sponsors I hope you’re enjoying the move

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It’s a little high level but the European court of justice essentially in a long ruling said that UEFA and FIFA do not have the power to block you you know this thing I don’t know if people follow soccer but it was a big thing two years ago the European Super League which was

An attempted essentially Breakaway Breakaway League by the biggest clubs to start their own competition so they wouldn’t have to deal with the federations like UEFA is the European Federation FIFA is the International Federation and soccer which would be similar to the UCI that they don’t have

The power to block to like legally block new Breakaway leagues you might be asking how is this relevant to cycling well we talked about run one pro cycling a few weeks ago and you were pretty negative on the Outlook of it and if you don’t know if you didn’t listen to that

Episode run one pro cycling is like a I guess an alleged maybe maybe confirmed effort from Richard PL and a few other team managers to somehow create their own Breakaway cycling League that would incorporate new and old races and try to pull all the sponsorships and TV rights

And make you know make it a more sustainable model with you know new and interesting racing ideas and the biggest stars you were pretty negative on it because you thought that um ASO the owner of the tour and the UCI the governing body could just block it if

They if they wanted you could say well if you race in any of these races you’re now barred from racing and you UCI events which would include the Olympics World Championships tour to France but you do want to talk about how this ruling from the European court of

Justice like now that the grown-ups have got involved you could say that and are applying real law how that could could actually give an opening to one pro cycling yeah I mean I think I think today’s ruling of the the European court of justice is very important uh and

Especially uh because it’s about the biggest sport in Europe soccer um and so as you said you know there was 12 teams initially 12 teams in initiative to have uh a different competition uh I want to specify like you know these this initiative and also one cycling uh is intended to coexist

With the federations and with uh the bigger organizations um so it’s just another set of uh games or or races or competition but with the focus on increasing the revenue for the main players which are the teams so I think uh today’s ruling uh against FIFA and

Against UEFA and the European court of justice has specifically said that this is an abuse of power uh you know I think this is very interesting for any new initiative in cycling um you know this is The Benchmark football in in in Europe um so I think when once

There’s a precedent uh cycling has now a better way of course um it’s not going to be easy but I specifically wanted to talk about this today because um we’ve always seen that any initiative which was outside of the UCI and even outside of ASO was systematically blocked sabotaged

Manipulated behind the scenes with sometimes you know coercing and bullying and threats uh I think today’s ruling is a the beginning of a new era in my opinion um inititive an initiative as one cycling um has now a better a better future in my opinion uh you know if if the

European court of justice rules against FIFA and against UEFA what does it take for them to rule against the UCI um coincidentally today uh there’s a there was a UCI press release and I that’s why I I really thought it was a good moment they must have released this

Before they knew about the the decision because it could not have come at a at at a worst moment but basically the UCI released a statement today or yesterday yeah I think this was like late yesterday yesterday uh I’ll quickly read the most important the most important uh

Notes the UCI has taken note of communications made by event organizer Derby wheel related to a new series of kin events with pool betting uh you see I was contacted first but hasn’t had news for a long time we didn’t have the UCI hasn’t hasn’t been provided with the necessary information

And not in a position to confirm the authorization for this new series as such they are currently considered forbidden events pursuant to the UCI regulations any participation of a UCI license holder in these events shall lead to disciplinary action according to the ucci rules so abuse of power threats bullying exactly the

Same uh we talking about a kin event right so you could say well no big deal but I think the fact that they have manifested their desire and Obsession about power is telling on on a day and the day after wfi and FIFA got got called back BEC exactly because of the

Same thing so uh it has happened before the UCI has for example threatened uh teams and suit teams and an organization called villum when they started their own series was called The Hammer series which was also o events owned by the teams in specific places a very uniform

Format the UCI has sued them uh I think I read somewhere last week that velon actually is struggling to survive and that they’re on the verge of bankruptcy um so these things whatever FIFA and UEFA has done to towards the the the teams who were supposed to be

Part of the Super League the UCI has done already several times and other federations other International federations are doing the same constantly so this is about abuse of power and about the the the free market uh against the Monopoly and uh we’re we’re looking constantly in cycling we’re looking constantly at a monopoly

Uh in terms of power is the Monopoly of the UCI but you could say well the Super League the Super League uh actually already exists in cycling it’s owned by ASO they have the tour and they have all the other important events they have the WTA they have Baston do parin name it

Right so um I’m not saying that this is now going to be a walk in the park for people who are behind the initiative of one cycling or any other initiative of a so-called Breakaway League Breakaway event or something which is not coming from the

UCI or not being approved by the UCI but I think it sets a very interesting precedent for initiative as one cycling to have uh a possible success I’m I’m convinced of that and and it was it was uh funny to see that that this you know this supposedly unimportant series of

Kin races on the track uh but the UCI has shown their face straight away they went on it and said hey we don’t know about this they haven’t asked our opinion we haven’t authorized it so anybody who’s participating in this will be sanctioned well I think they’re going to

Have to review this statement and and review it the thing is Spencer that International sporting federations including the UCI have been so used over the years to get away with whatever they want because they write their own regulations they’re not approved by anybody except them a lot of times sporting regulations

Of federations are actually illegal in a normal civil court but yet they impose them on their license holders and members and uh Sports law is just uh based on whatever a feder a wants and ultimately what the ioc wants uh but of course the ioc and all the supporting

Federations are you know how do you say it they’re in bed together right uh so they have the same interests but but I think I think after today’s decision uh things are going to change yeah I mean a good example of that is like salary caps and American

Sports those are really popular but that’s not technically legal like if we there was four companies if Apple Google and Facebook all got together and decided that they couldn’t spend more than x on any employees that would be illegal they would not be allowed to do that but sporting leagues oftentimes get

A pass because they can Lobby specific people that are important or even pass specific laws to help them it’s harder in Europe which is why this is probably happening in Europe but the big takeaway is that and it’s not that the European Super League is going to happen it’s

Just now that FIFA and UEFA cannot block it basically can’t kill it in its infancy they have to like Let it go out to the free market yeah who knows if that will actually work there’s a lot of obstacles to it but this Kieran thing is really interesting I I frankly would

Never have noticed this had you not brought this to my attention Johan um because I was thinking like who cares about Derby wheel and some Kieran racing I know it’s big in Japan like Kieran racing with um racing with betting is massive in Japan and it’s like oh what’s

Probably not going to catch on in Europe who cares but I actually was unaware I hadn’t read low enough in the press release to know that if they consider it a quote unquote forbidden event it doesn’t mean that they’re not sanctioning it because what do they care

It just means that any writer with UCI license that does the event could be banned from UCI events which would include very important races so Mark Cavendish couldn’t compete in this Kieran racing event because he would lose his ability to race in major road races that’s a big deal in this case

It’s probably not that important but what if Richard plug and six other teams launch you know I don’t know like a tour of Bavaria and it’s it’s their own one cycling owned event then they wouldn’t be allowed to have professional cyclists essentially because of this ability that

Maybe now’s been revoked yeah well I think I think you know the difference the difference between cycling and and most of the other sports is of course uh and it’s a problem for cycling and it’s it makes organizing events in other sports easier uh is that most of the other

Sports are in a stadium in a closed environment which is privately owned most of the cases and cycling is on the public roads what does that mean uh and this is also something that the federations international federations and then through their members the national federations are are going to use as an

Argument and as a weapon if you want to organize a race on public roads you need the authorization and the cooperation of the authorities and the police to block the traffic to organize that it’s a safe environment now normally countries and authorities work through federations um so in this case for sure

For sure UCI is going to play with that weapon that they have is that okay well they can’t organize a race anyway because any Authority needs to go through the national Federation let’s say if you want to organize a race in Belgium you need to go through the

Belgian Federation to have the the the approval that you can actually contract policeman and but let’s not forget you know one cycling is it’s Saudi money behind and apparently it’s a lot of money I am not exclud I’m actually quite confident that even without any Federation that you can

Still get the approval and the cooperation of the authorities um to organize a bike event um you know I mean it happens it happens in other parts of of life you know I mean if you if if you want to organize a mega concert uh you need to have the approval

Of the the the City or or the country or the town to use their land and and to you know so there as far as I know there is no Federation of concerts all these all these events are privately priv private initiatives so um it’s going to complicate things a little

Bit for cycling but it’s definitely not impossible so personally I am I’m very happy that this happened today because you know I’ve I’ve been involved in this 20 25 years ago already with initi initiatives like this uh and now of course it got it got better and better

But it’s always the same there was always the same system being used is that they sabotaged by trying to De unite you know to to to to pick pick out little little members here and there and finally uh this is the same happened with with the Super League

Initially there was 12 teams finally there was three teams left yeah because there was so much pressure and and threats so uh let’s hope that the teams are are united they can stay United and if they’re if they’re patient and they’re smart there is nothing that

Stands away in the way of a new initiative um I’ve I’m a big fan of of of separating professional sports from the sports as a whole uh it you know the professionals a professional League can function within the regulations of the Federation but in terms of organization

And business and revenue needs to be independent I mean the UCI has no business in making money of events but of course you know the UCI is going to say well you know if this race is not sanctioned by us we’re not getting the license money of this

Organizer we’re not getting this we’re not getting this um so it for them races are also a source of a source of Revenue and I think that they’re seeing that there’s a part of the races that may actually escape from that from their revenue and uh but in theory an International Federation

Should do what they have to do it’s it’s regulate the sport they could do a bit better on their regulations um but regulate the sports uh and uh you know professional sports should be an entity a separate entity or an in an independent entity within the whole sport of cycling but but doing

Their own thing and I think that’s the future it’s what’s going to happen sooner or later um so that’s why today I wanted to talk about this based on that favorable decision of uh the the European court of justice for for the teams Today’s Show is also brought to

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First purchase go to drink a1.com thememove that’s drink a1.com thememove check it out yeah like a good example of that would be FIFA is FIFA but they don’t tell the English Premier League they they don’t organize their events and then get money off of English Premier

League games they don’t get a piece of that pie that’s just the private entity that is the English Premier League that runs its business the way it wants to run it same thing with the NBA like FBA the international World Basketball Association is not coming in and getting

A a cut of NBA game revenues like they’re just doing regulations and they can have their own events if they want they can have a World Cup but they shouldn’t be encroaching on a private business which is what like NBA NFL English Premier League are the one

Thing I would ask you about is so this this one procycling League or one cycling whatever they call it kind of like came onto the scene with a lot of publicity there was a lot of talk about Saudi Investment it didn’t seem to have a ton of the those stories weren’t

Sourced incredibly well what what is the deal we haven’t heard much from it since like is it still going is there Saudi Investment what’s the deal there yeah there is there is there’s definitely I mean I’ve spoken to a few people who are you know unofficially involved because

Nobody wants to say really a lot of details but from what I can sense the excitement and the enthusiasm of people who are members of this initiative is is big and they are very very confident that it’s going to happen now today is going to give them a big boost um and

And you know it’s not because we don’t hear a lot about it uh I think it’s probably better we don’t hear a lot about it the less we hear about it the more chances of success it has in my opinion and the less the UCI knows about it the

Better uh includ I mean also you also ASO they shouldn’t they shouldn’t know anything about it either um but um I mean based on what we’re seeing uh in terms of the the the Saudis getting involved in a lot of different sports you know money is not an

Issue um I I can’t see this I can see this being stopped uh at some point uh I was I was skeptical um a few weeks ago because I’ve seen so many times initiatives being shut down based on on you know what I just told about you know

Sabotaging and and and blackmailing and and threatening but this decision of today changes everything from in my opinion yeah and it kind of signals that their ability this we don’t want to get too into the weeds here it gets a little can be a little tedious which is the way

They want it but you know the UCI currently takes you if you have an issue with them they take you to Cass which is the court of arbitration for sport which is not that’s not real court right it’s just some sort of I mean I I have a big

Experience with with C because my personal case was decided there uh you know and C C is an instrument of the ioc the ioc um and then through all the international federations makes it mandatory for every license holder to go to C the court of arbitration of sports in

Loan um very mysterious organization um it’s funded and dependent on the ioc and the International Federation so it’s you know I can tell you I’ve spent five days there this is not a neutral Court by far I mean it’s it’s everything but neutral um you are coerced into accepting

This entity as the the this the the court that decides over any disputes uh and on top of that it’s arbitration it’s not a court uh usually arbitration between two parties needs to be voluntarily here you have no choice if you don’t you they can they can say well

You don’t have to accept it if but if you don’t accept it they don’t give you a license so you are obligated to to uh to go there um I would say I would even go further than that I would say you know at least my experience with most of the UCI

Rules um they’re crafted in a way that uh they’re always going to Advantage the Federation you have to accept them and if someone wants to take those regulations to a normal Court in most of the occasions they’re going to be rejected they’re not legal uh this is not normal Justice this is

You know one One Direction Justice they can do whatever they want they are not accountable to anybody and um that’s unfortunately the way everybody has been used to work during you know several decades uh but I’ve seen cases um anybody who has the time and the energy and especially the financial resources

To take on a federation in a normal Court um have big chances of winning the the only downside is that you’re normally dealing with athletes who have a very short career have limited resources and they don’t have time on their side so you could win a case where you you get convicted

For something by the UCI uh in in a normal court but it’s probably two or three years later so your career is over already so most of the people then say well you know what it’s not worth it you know but out of principle there are people who have won

Because most of the sporting regulations in in normal court of law are illegal yeah like we saw this with the biological passport where they were trying to ban People based on biological passport violations you know maybe a noble Pursuit but they just would people with means writers with means would take

Them to court they never held up now they’re used a little bit differently they kind of Target test based on biological passport data yeah but and you can start to see that really it’s the Monopoly which gives cast power because if they can say well you don’t

Want to arbitrate you don’t get a license what are you going to do if you don’t have a UCI license you can’t do anything but maybe if there was another option you know you you wouldn’t have to go you wouldn’t be forcing arbitration you know it’s listen it’s not all it’s

Not all negative right I mean on the you could in favor of the system of of cast for example I would say it’s it’s unified and it’s in theory it should be faster arbitration should be faster than than a than a long trial and you don’t have to deal

With uh different rules different judgments of different countries right that’s obviously also an issue uh but man let me tell you if a federation sues you and you have to go to C you’re dead is’s no way there is no way I mean it needs to be really really

Really like black on white I mean personally I mean I I can give you a little example for example I I’ve spent five days there when usada um wanted to convict me for for a lifetime band which finally I got uh and then W joined them uh and so I was

Sitting there for five days and and it was the W cat which was the the the the the rules W code is also written uh so uh W and usada had hired the lawyer who wrote The W code and this guy was on every single issue that there was a potential doubt of

Interpretation he was telling the judges how to interpret the rules he wrote them but he was defending usada and wada so um this I mean it’s it was it was I mean once you’re there you said what the hell am I doing here this is this is just you

Know this a waste of time and an incredible waste of money if I would have known I would never have gone there and you know save saved that money because it it cost me a fortune but um but yeah I mean in in in almost all the

Cases you know um when when it’s when it’s a federation against against an individual it’s very rare that the individual uh wins the case and talking about I’m not just talking about doping it on on any dispute right on any dispute yeah like most pertinent to this would be you know

We’re talking about doping cases at with UCI but you know imagine if you go imagine if Unbound is is considered a forbidden event next year because they don’t want to pay the UCI a fee to be registered as a UCI race everyone who does Unbound is then banned from UCI

Events it’s not impossible that that would Happ the the the the most the most uh public case is the the the case of C Casper Caster Seena you know the the the the South African athlet yeah yeah uh the the the international Athletics Federation went against her uh in C I

Think she she lost um I don’t know what the outcome was after all but you know in a normal Court I think she she she she won uh but you know it takes such a long time that you know her career is over yeah yeah it’s like kind of a

Tragic thing but to tie this into current events of the past 48 hours so this happens this ruling comes down you cannot impose your monopolistic power as a national or International Federation Continental Federation just to kill upstart leagues in but you would think like okay ASO that’s an unassailable monolith of

Cycling they have the most important events the Tour of France being the biggest one no one can ever challenge these people so it’s irrelevant you know it doesn’t matter if the courts will rule if ASO doesn’t approve one cycling will never stand a chance but what have

We seen in the past three days two I would say what two of the sports biggest four five biggest stars have decided to do the zalia which is not an ASO event which is an RCS event one of them W vinart is skipping the tour entirely

Like are we seeing a little bit of shift like is this like a tiny balance of power shift in cycling where maybe ASO is losing a little bit I don’t think so I don’t think so I think this is no I think this is a coincidence uh you know obviously we’re

Talking about we’re talking about uh pogacha going to the Jiro and W vanard going to the Jiro um I think first of all it’s it’s personal choices uh there’s money involved let’s let’s not forget ASO is so powerful and the tour is so important that they will never

Ever ever pay somebody to start at the tour to France everybody’s dying to be there the jro RCs have a different approach they have a great event but you know if they have a huge star it puts their event a little bit closer to the tour so for sure they

Have paid uh a big amount of money to pachar and they’re paying a big amount of money to vanard uh they’re smart with that uh um and so I think that’s the that’s that’s the first one of the one of the reasons that both of those guys are going there and

Then you know in terms of Pacha I also think that you know the guy won the Tour twice right the last two editions he lost the tour he was second but he kind of sees that vingard is strong uh you know I’ve seen a lot of criticism on Twitter for example about

Pgat are doing the jro and not prioritizing the tour but you know who are we to to say yeah yeah he should focus on the tour only and try to win the tour again I mean the guy won it twice in my opinion and especially the way cycling is going nowadays when young

Guys are coming more and more uh the guy wants his legacy for when he retires and he you know in in today’s cycling you don’t know how how long you’re going to last so I think he wants the put a strike to the like you know tick next to

The jro wants to win the Jiro and ultimately he’s going to want to win the VTA uh and and you know he’s he wants to win all three grand Tours uh and it’s it’s his full right to to to think like that uh and and and then on top of that

Also Spencer you know in today’s cycling we don’t really know you know I mean nobody has been trying lately to to go for the double but the way these guys train the way these guys uh recover maybe it’s possible in today’s cycling to be top in the jro and top in

The tour or Pacha could win the jro without being 100% that’s another possibility yeah yeah I mean yeah I don’t I don’t I I was flam miixed by the decision I’m I just I’m having a hard time getting behind it but you do have a good point that he’s so good he could

Win the zir without being 100% and kind of just seamlessly go in like use it as a training camp essentially and then go into the tour well also I mean and another another way of seeing it is you know okay let’s try to win the jro you know if things go to

Plan he should win it I think uh and then he starts the tour without any pressure um if he fails fine you know it it’s normal he did the Jiro already but you know that puts all the pressure on vinger guard and uh and jumbo or Vima

Lisa bike from today on I guess they presented their team and and you know if you look at UAE they’re going to the tour with patar and auso and Almeida uh so these are three guys that they can say okay maybe your three guys are not 100% at the same level as

Wingard but the three together could do a lot of damage that’s another story we’ve never seen those three guys work together so we’re not going to go into that today but um it’s it’s not it’s notan I don’t I don’t hate it you know I don’t hate the the their idea it’s

Poetic because that’s how yumbo beat pagar to begin with in 2022 they used three Riders to beat up on them also I mean you got to be looking your chops a little bit if you’re if you’re Primos if you’re UAE if you’re Rimco no out V art

For yonas at the tour that’s that’s going to be really different it is going to be different I mean vanard is definitely uh a guy who’s you know you can you can build you can build a cathedral on him you know I mean if in any

Race um but you know they’re still very strong uh and and and also let’s not forget that in my opinion it seems that yonas is still improving he’s still getting better well is that part of the decision too like I’m not I’m not worried I’m not

Worried of vanard not being there not at all actually and is T thinking well if Jonas is getting better and he’s at his best of the tour not that it’s a waste of his time but I’m it’s just going to be hard to beat him so I’ll just go win a zero get

That off my shoulders maybe I maybe the things roll my way at the tour maybe not yeah it’s not it’s not stupid you know it’s I I personally think it’s it’s a personal decision of him wanting to start winning other races so so when he

Retires that he can say okay I won all three I mean he can win all three ground tours for sure you know it just he just needs to find the time to do them you know so uh so yeah I mean it’s I think I think it’s we have to respect his choice

It’s uh I think it’s good it’s good for the sport I mean at the risk of sounding stupid if this doesn’t happen I think he could win the zero like with with one leg like this year Roo’s perfect for him I he could really easily not easily but

As as Garren Thomas just said on your podcast two days ago yesterday he won the 2008 tour without being pushed to his limit I think you could see T do the same thing at the year of this year yeah yeah yeah well you know winning any

Ground tour is always uh very hard and it takes a lot out of you so uh until until the opposite is proved it’s not the ideal approach to do the jro before the tour especially if you have the opportunity to do a ideal leadup to the tour you know typical like

Doof and training camps and and to the France but um hey bachar is a guy who basically you know disrupts every cycling rule you know who would have thought that he would win the tour tour of Flanders and dropping the two best Riders on that course uh making them

Look like they were Juniors and he did it you know yeah I mean Daniel freebe from the cycling podcast has a theory that to prepare for grand Tours you should only race grand Tours so if this works out he’s gonna his his theorem will have been proven correct so he has a lot

Writing on this personally but it’s I thought only I mean the thing with with T is he he R he will ride the jro before the D but he also rides other races so uh you know that’s that’s a bit but but he did he did uh he’s very selective in

His spring classics I think it’s only Milan raymon Baston Le um but of course you know both of those races also demand a lot of preparation uh and and knowing Pacha I mean he’s he’s he’s not racing those races just to participate when he’s racing he he thinks he can win Milano

And he thinks he can win leash so um we’ll see it’s going to be interesting it’s going to be really interesting I mean it’s it’s a massive win for the Ziro like we wouldn’t be talking about the zero this time of year without him and we’ll let everyone go go into their

Holiday long holiday weekend hopefully with uh thoughts of potential breaking of the UCI ASO Monopoly and procycling I I’m still a little skeptical but I agree with you Johan this does kind of give it a breath of life that it didn’t have before absolutely we’ll see all right

Well thank you so much and we will be back probably early 2024 talk talking some early season stuff yeah thanks right have a great holidays and and talk to you later bye okay [Applause] Likewise