After many comments from viewers saying the motorcyclist (me) shouldn’t have been in lane 2 and despite me writing an explanation, it still looks like people don’t understand lane discipline so I’ve uploaded this explanation. Remember, this stresses the point even more that people get confused and riders shouldn’t sit next to cars, Cheers
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Hey everyone just a brief upload to clarify a problem with my latest upload the short that I did and it’s actually me on the motorcycle that’s in Lane 2 at the roundabout a lot of people are commenting that the exit was actually a left turn so I’ll just clarify
That okay notorious the wall Lane here where cars offer cut it up at the roundabout there you go look and again straight across in front of me it’s just a case of anticipating that’s all it’s never really a major problem firstly the fact that the highways commission or the highways
Agency decided to mark it as a straight ahead on the Arrow shows that once you actually get to the round about about the actual exit is straight ahead so we’re coming to the sign which I’ll post a photo of on here and the sign does look initially from where I’m
Coming from that the exit is to the left but look at these Road markings there is no left despite the roads being terrible the arrows are two straight ahe heads and one right now we’ll look at the lane that I’m in I’m staying in this Lane and this exit is actually Straight Ahead
Look it’s not a left turn there is also a second lane exiting which goes with the second Straight Ahead Arrow so that shows that this is actually the first exit now people that are commenting that I shouldn’t have been in lane two this road used to be a 60 and what I was
Doing was getting into the lane ready for an overtake but you do notice at no point did I overtake the vehicle until I was going to exit and as it turns out it was a good choice because the vehicle turned right but that’s exactly the point of that
Upload the car didn’t fully understand the layout of the roundabout which is what I was allowing for so Lane one was marked Straight Ahead not left correct lane two was marked straight ahead and right so it’s the same first exit and the right turn so I was
Actually quite correct being in lane two ready for an overtake and hanging back but again this this backs up the point the whole point that you should never sit next to Vehicles anyway especially on roundabouts because it’s highly likely that they don’t understand the road markings and want to take a different
Exit so if this gets you thinking then the upload was actually worthwhile because it may Save Somebody a couple of months ago I actually saw a motorcyclist injured laying next to his body bike in exactly the same situation but that biker had actually gone to overtake the
Car that had then done exactly the same as the mini and in case anybody thinks I’m doing wrong here in these hatchings the outside markings of the hatchings are broken so I’m allowed to enter that’s going to stop me having to write a long explanation at the
Beginning of this upload as well please understand and believe me when I do an upload things are checked and are correct and 39 years of instructing whether you agree with me or not you have to just trust the fact that I would not do an upload if it was
Incorrect so I hope this has clarified things a little bit for you and feel free to comment and if you still think I’m wrong shut up I’ll speak to you soon bye-bye
50 Comments
Oh c'mon even i did catch the mini driver error! And i'm italian! (This was a bit of a sarcastic comment….) By the way you brit have some crazy roundabout there! Yes i did came up in September (was really nice…) and i DID manage not to cock up the roundabout with a bit of sign riding and sense! And don't start on us italian about roundabout, we don't even know how to construct them, let alone use them! Plus your video are always appreciated!
Used to live in a little place called Plymouth , which had a 4 lane roundabout with six exits. Absolute chaos as it also had traffic lights before every exit, best f thing I ever did was just slow down and take your time , the same as you suggested. Ps isn’t there a maximum speed limit on most roundabouts different to the roads coming on to them ? 😊👍
That last one was good! Thanks!
Both your short and this video make perfect sense. The road markings clearly show you are 100% correct. I also appreciate your common sense approach. If you know something has a high probability of occurring, plan for it and don't be surprised when it happens.
Use the appropriate lane on roundabouts and at intersections and turnoffs. Seen similar problems from new drivers here scared so they hug the lane near the roadside. Great until someone need to turn off and they get cut off and wonder why.
Lane discipline is a real issue on UK roads these days. As you correctly do, "anticipate, anticipate, anticipate". Little point being in hospital (or worse) thinking "I was in the right"…
We have had a new road built around part of Norwich. The lane discipline by some drivers is awful. The design of some of the roundabouts encourages some drivers to straight line them. So I'm always aware the that the other road users WON'T do as they are expected. 🤓. Love your videos, keep up the good work and ride well 🤓
Best motorcycle instructions for todays crazy driving. Thanks
Like yourself I've been instructing for many a moon. A large part of that as primary motorcycle instructor in a Police Driver training unit (whilst a serving officer) I've followed your videos for years and always find them to be accurate and of the highest quality. More of the same please.
I saw the criticism. ROSPA boy here.
The Short wasn’t clear btw… too short ! 🤭this video , the clip was better , plus other photos make it easy to understand.
Wonder if asked the highways would change the road markings ?
Keep up the good work .
You can be correct but it still hurts as much.
Makes perfect sense to me anyway 👍
Have to do this roundabout every single day, you're absolutely correct. It's always been a bad roundabout for people cutting it, it's honestly too sharp a lane for the speed that traffic goes over it, needs a redesign. If it was a single lane for exit 1, then a second lane for exit 2 and 3 onto the park you'd have more room to reduce the cutting and the near misses that follow. Bad driving not helped by poor road design really. I don't watch the shorts but the mini couldn't have got it more wrong if they were deliberately trying to hit you.
Evening Russ , It gets better MA52 RZK has "NOT" been Taxed or MOT'd for a long time .
your channel is such a valuable resource. Top marks 💪🏻👍🏻
Your upload was absolutely correct – just a shame that it's not obvious on the road. Well, it is obvious on the road but you have to look for it and people simply don't – they assume. And it's because they assume, you don't ride alongside them. Not all roundabouts are built alike…
I think road planners need to take some responsibility here too. The centre lane marked to go straight on would be better marked to turn right, as the the second lane filters into the first lane soon after anyway. Just make lane one sweep round to go straight on maybe? In other words, there's 3 exits to that roundabout and 3 lanes approaching, surely arrow one lane for each exit.
Thanks Russ, very informative.
Much has been said about poor or fading road markings and the somewhat conflicting road signs – there's clearly plenty to go wrong here psychologically as the tries to brain make often rapid sense of it all. The mini in question could have further added to the risk by a second change of mind as it approached the exit or added significantly to the risk by say slowing down mid-course adding to a biker's risk with inattentive following drivers.
Local knowledge and driver history clearly helps anticipate possible poor lane discipline as well as anticipating the squeeze of a quart into a pint pot at the lane 2/road exit. This pinch point which would not be obvious to those unfamiliar to the area with congestion yet further complicating matters.
I could see that for say initial rider training purposes it might be safer to suggest the student sticks to lane 1!
Irrelevant of the stupid comments made by other people, I think one thing we can agree on is the shocking use of signage and road markings, it's like the planners were never going to use that road and said "fuck it, that'll do". Same as a lot of my local haunts, the A303 has a notorious roundabout that was poorly signposted for about 10 years that has had a recent change in markings and signs, but people use both lanes to go around the roundabout to merge onto a single lane
Roundabouts are notorious for poor judgment by drivers
Yes, the main road was a left bend and the roundabout was added for the side road.
Bob on. Expect other road users to do something dumb. There is an old saying about a dead biker; " He was right, dead right as he rode along. But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong."
Mini driver was probably trying to dodge all the potholes 😉 Sorry, just kiddin… I can see why folks interpreted the 'Short' differently though. Did a fork seal on roads like that earlier in the year, just wondering if your bikes take a beating on Nottinghams roads because of the lack of maintenance. I see on one of your other halfs videos a guy failed his test solely on not using the bus lane when it was available despite there being no other traffic present, I'm curios as why this is a 'Fail' on it's own? Just trying to learn and understand, why is that a 'Major Fault'?
Thanks for your video 😂
your videos always make sense Russ, I don't watch the shorts myself but enjoyed the explanation 😆
I always look forward to your videos. They provide valuable information about decision making on our roads. However, in this instance I can see no point in you being in the middle lane. You knew that the car in the inside lane was likely to cut across you and so you were, quite rightly, never going to overtake it.
Why then did you not use the left hand lane and follow the car?
When the car incorrectly continued around the roundabout you could have turned left – which was of course actually straight ahead and never been in any danger of being sideswiped by the car.
It’s almost as if you put yourself in harms way in order to demonstrate the car driver’s poor road positioning.
I accept that you were aware of the possible dangers presented by the car driver’s poor driving and so were ready to take any necessary action to avoid a collision but what would have happened if another car had suddenly appeared behind the first car and cut across the lane as well? You’d have been unable to turn off the roundabout where you wanted to without taking some drastic action.
Sorry, but in this case I think that the left hand lane would always be the safest choice.
Please keep the videos coming.
So many drivers seem unable to read road markings on roundabouts, even ones they probably use everyday, and they are also unable to stay within the road markings.
At 3:11 I'd say going into the hatched area means far less likely to be rear ended by a vehicle going straight.
Useful and interesting, as always 😀
🙂
30 years. Yup, myself and my brother took our tests with roadcraft over 30 years ago 😮 and I did an advanced course with you probably 25 years ago. Dam, we old lol.
I enforce the parking portion of the Land Transport Act, and associated Road User Rules, I have studied the legislation snd after more than 6.5 years I know it pretty well. It amazes me that member of the general public think they know the rule better than I do, and are happy to argue that they are not breaking the law, when I know that I would not be interested in their vehicle if they were parked legally.
Like a few others in the comments, I don't watch "shorts", so I've missed the arguments. From what I've seen here, the Bini went for the second exit from the wrong (left) lane. Yes, you were planning an entirely legal overtake but you knew better than to assume others' intentions.
Wholly agree with everything you said – re lane positioning and defensive riding. I
do disagree about drivers not understanding the road markings… I think they don’t read them and just ‘react’ when they see where they intended to go!
Be aware – at all times!
I've actually been hit by a car doing exactly that , ignoring road markings and attempting to go around a traffic island from the left-hand lane of three. I was fortunate, wasn't on my bike that day and my Volvo 940 proved to be much tougher than a min convertible. Drier wasn't indicating to go right either.
I'm here in the comments to check who hasn't shut up 😂
This (and the original ‘short’ I’d already seen & remarked upon) reminded me of an incredibly near miss, under similar circumstances.
The roundabout in question (for anyone interested in looking at an aerial, satellite, view) is the ‘Tesco superstore’ near Southend-on-Sea … road markings show lanes & directions for, among others, the A127 & B1013. I was already ‘on’ the roundabout approaching from the east, they came from the south.
As I revisit said ‘near-miss’, I’m still uncertain if I was (1) entirely in the wrong (2) partially in the wrong or (3) not in the wrong & merely unlucky (or lucky, given the outcome).
Point being, I’m certain I was in the correct lane & had indicated accordingly at the time, yet the other vehicle would’ve ALSO been in a correct lane & NOT required to indicate (regardless of whether they had or not).
All good fun, eh!
Agreed that your are stricktly speaking correct and the Mini driver in your original video was wrong the bigger problem is the road markings and signage making this an accident waiting to happen and I've seen similar at many roundabouts where one or more of the lanes don't really form part of the roundabout structure. It's a roundabout that's not a roundabout.
This would be bad enough if the driver was local but if this was a person unfamiliar with the area then it's no surprise that this happens.
For instance why is it not clearly signed that this lane MUST take the first exit and NOT enter the island proper?
Why does this lane have a broken line between it and the adjacent lane? This should be as minimum a solid line and better still a reservation ideally using a kerbed separation.
Unfortunately this is not unique.
I honestly can’t believe you’ve had to clarify this! Folks are far too quick to jump in and blame people without thinking for a second. You could plainly see the left lane was marked straight ahead and the lane you were in was straight on and right, you were of course absolutely correct in your lane choice and the mini cut across a marked line in front of you.
I think the road markings are actually pants. The arial shot you had of the roundabout show that it is actually a left, albeit not a sharp one. That people commonly misunderstand, and that you've also seen an accident recently, makes it evident that something needs to change at this roundabout, and even if the road markings are "technically correct" they clearly aren't working.
It amazes me how many people don’t know the Highway Code or read the road properly. I’ve always said that everyone should re-do their theory and driving test (only refreshers) every 3-5 years. Good video as always Russ and I watched the short and had no qualms with what you were doing. Safe riding
You're absolutely correct. Even though the sign leading up to the junction isn't at 12 o'clock, with there being no left turn and the arrows are pointing straight ahead, you treat the roundabout as straight ahead in the first two lanes. You avoided a collision with the mini driver and the best advice to anyone in similar situations on any roundabout is, if you are taking the next exit never overtake a vehicle that is on your inside just incase they aren't taking that exit, just as the mini proved. That way you avoid any collision.
Yes you are correct in every respect and that’s obvious because you’re a legend! This goes to show that when riding around a roundabout try to always keep a staggered position to the vehicle next to you
Didn't watch the short vid sorry, but fully appreciate the extra info here and the need to explain further (to those that are criticising but dont have the same valuable experience)
However, I think we can all identify with the road layout / Markings mentioned here on roads near to us. That approach to the roundabout, clearly needs an update from the local authority. The left hand lane
Should only have a left hand marker. Even if it saves 1 life its worthwhile.
Quality content as always, many of these vids helped me right from when I’d done DAS and onto my IAM
Spot on Russ, clear as day.
I'm constantly astounded (and a little bit disturbed) as to how roundabouts can be so confusing to so many.
The ancient art of reading signs and lane markings seems to be dwindling.
Great vid! 🙌🏼
Shocking that people didn't notice the dirty great arrows on the floor 😂 and as ever, I've learnt something! No idea that broken outside lines meant we could enter an area of hatchings! The amount of times you see people just waiting to pull into the turning lane holding up traffic means I just figured that's what you do! Top job 👍
I understand and agree with all you said but I can very clearly see and understand why that car driver did what he did.
Brilliant defensive riding by motorcyclist. Mini driver drove terribly and would have hit you if you hadn’t expected them to be dangerous. Mini driver should be awarded points for dangerous driving.
I like that one 'if you still think I'm wrong, shut up'
Firstly, as a mid-life crisis new biker, a massive thanks for all your great videos, I am learning loads, please keep 'em coming 😊. For this clip, there is no question that you were in the right lane, moreover, demonstrating why we shouldn't be at the side of someone around an island. My issue here is with the idiot(s) at the highways agency who decide to put straight arrows to turn left. I see these a lot now and even when driving, I'm anticipating that many people will get it wrong because they usually do. Essentially, we always turn left to exit a roundabout (indicate left as you pass the previous exit) therefore, straight on arrows should mean that you continue round the roundabout (a right arrow should only exist at entry). Therefore, in my opinion, the highways agency should take responsibility here. Curious to know your (and others) thoughts here, am I the only person thinking like this lol. Thanks again, ride safe all.