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Science and the law come in to conflict more often than you might think. In this episode I want to tell you about several cases that I have followed which have concerned me greatly. The issue here isn’t the actual scientific evidence, it is rather the way that scientists pursue and discuss this evidence, usually in a straight-forward and frank manner that doesn’t sit well with courts.
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00:00 Intro
00:32 Lie Detectors No Better than Chance
03:46 The Chiropractor Quacklash
05:38 For Better Science
09:02 Honesty Researcher Accused of Dishonesty
11:03 Cluster Cases
13:34 The Common Denominator
14:49 Browse Smarter with Opera
#science
45 Comments
This video comes with a quiz which you can take here: https://quizwithit.com/start_thequiz/1701893252777×317004131444747600
Conclusion: science (honest attempt at truth) and money are not compatible – from any angle you cut it. On the other hand, if the science is not "perfect", can a guilty person go free? Best not to think science is as reliable as we make it out to be.
Sabine, the problem with courts is that to become an active professional in that field and similar fields like government and police you need to adapt to "Fit" into the position and when it is corrupted you need to be corrupted to "Fit" into the role. Otherwise you will not be accepted. You become just like them and if you are close enough the training and associations you make will finish the job. This is why someone like you wouldn't make a good lawyer even though you might have more skills and abilities than any detective or lawyer. You might be able to gather and analyze evidence, scrutinize witnesses and get the info and compile a solid case but if it goes against the interest of the majority, even if they are wrong, then it certainly wont hold water.
Think of this as well, how are there lawyers who will defend criminals even though they know they are guilty? it is all about profit and employment and the job. There isn't much in terms of values anymore.
One thing to remember is the Evil will cross boundaries, ignore rules, breech conditions, lie, steal, kill etc. where those claiming to do good are restricted by all of those things. They limit themselves, they do not have the same range or capabilities.
Most of the time those fighting off the threat become the threat they were fighting off. they had to be as aggressive and violent to even be considered a match but then when the threat is gone they are the threat. Then who deals with them? and the cycle continues.
Power corrupts. people in a position of power often exploit it and want more.
Where does it end. being rich has no limits but you can only ever be so poor.
I don't agree with most laws regarding slander, defamation etc. But given such laws, several of these cases seem perfectly…… expected.
In the case of Simon Singh, he was never disputed on his claim that chiropractic is bogus, rather he was rightfully challenged when he also chose to speculate on the intend and motives of chiropractors. So he wasn't really sued for doing his job was he? He was sued for comments regarding his findings.
The fact that you can be sued for voicing your opinion (let alone your professionally informed opinion) is a grotesque joke in itself, but I don't think we can conflate it with being sued for reporting on objective/measurable truths.
I'm 99% with Sabine that this is a problem…but I'll also say that those authors probably were out over their skis when they used terms like 'charlatan'. Those are loaded words that really shouldn't be used in a professional science paper. It's enough to say 'These claims are false'. We don't have to name-call.
Sabine trips un a lot of english words in this video… but I, a native English speaker, spent 10 minutes trying to pronounce jus·ti·ci·a·ble.
Well I once dished up some data as an undergrad after an Emeritus professor of engineering had finished an internal faculty presentation of a paper on hybrid vehicles he was due to publish. He found lead acid batteries to be feasible and didn't mention research using lithium ion batteries. His selection of test data was also suspicious, mostly highway and very ambiguously defined 'city cycle '.
I didn't get sued but he failed me next subject I was his student in, and I had to escalate just short of having to use the uni admin. I finally got a look at how the Dean had administered the request for remark, and he had also clearly broken the rules. I was given a pass.
The point is even some scientists have problems dealing with the way scientists dish up data.
Good points. I was a teacher in California. Every single 'school reform' that was adopted was done so at incredible expense. None of these were rigorously tested or even peer reviewed. Everything was "preliminary results indicate…" and after the company gets the money and the new program does nothing to help students… they just cook up something else to sell. The original program, even though now it has been applied to tens of thousands of student is never mathematically or scientifically evaluated. Then they do it again. And again.
I was a teacher from 2006 to 2017. During that time the Los Angeles School District I worked for first spent $22 million and then $70 million on reading programs that accomplished nothing. The state is now proposing to spend $100 on more of the same, according to the New York Times, 'based on preliminary results,' but not peer reviewed.
When I would raise the point about scientific evaluation I was either thanked for my comment and then ignored, or confronted with "So what's your point? Do nothing?"
3rd strike, Sabine, for priming the people with false facts regarding climate change at the end. I don't care if this was advertisement only but you published it. you should know better. shame!
The USGS obviously doesn't want to be sued or worse like those eq.scientists at L'Aquila…so they don't give out eq. forecasts, though they know the weekly/fortnightly cycle is like a torrent or river…on it's way. Indeed Icelandic earth scientists think volcanoes are going to blow when it's just the termination of the sequence giving rise to eqs. [ i've been over this before; eqs arise from the deeps around Fiji as they're dropped off on their way. See 10 years of Sun in 10 mins from NASA to see the mechanism. ]
In the same way quantum physicists have been misleading us since 1900. Not that there isn't quantum levels. But they must now know they are deliberately lying to hold up their quantum mysticism of superposition, entanglement and the rest, their fairytale quarks, gluons and hadronisation…whilst being unable to solve the Vacuum Catastrophe and the Dark Stuff. A lie by omission is still a lie…and of course they can't solve the anomalies with wrong models. They can't or won't admit they're wrong but pile fabrication on fabrication.
Sabine, on my browser, I keep nearly 520 tabs open, every day, with no trouble whatsoever. How do I do it? I have a 42inch diagonal display, and I orient the display so that the longest sides stand vertical. I then play with my “video card” settings so as to make my video display rotate by -90 degrees. It’s easy to do, Sabine, and it opens a whole new world to be able to keep 520 tabs open, simultaneously. Also, my Microsoft Edge browser allows me to group tabs, as well.
What about science vs. societal norms? People that have been cancelled for unpopular opinions, even if those opinions hold merit and have evidence.
No mention of scientists who lose their jobs for telling unpopular truths.
In the USA it is illegal for the scientists at the CDC to keep statistics or spend any money on violent injury prevention if it pertains to guns.
Only gun violence is excluded. Wonder who lobbied for that???
On the face of it, the company objected to the positioning of the paper's title inferring bad faith rather than incompetence.
Courts often don't use statistical analyst and since it can easily be misused they might have a good reason not to.
This sounds like more spreading of the "alternative facts" virus that was unleashed in 2016 in the US.
Chiropractic "treatment" is full of crap!
I am more and more convince that we are in an era of stupidity !
People, mostly honest scientists, are getting sued for trying to inform society about their errors and false prophets. We are not allowed to look for proofs before making a judgment and we have to accept the official position like it is an absolute God given truth. The only thing that remain constant is the fact that money controls the world. Even the " law " is in the service of those who have the most money.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't trust politicians and the system they control, I don't trust the law administration and the people participating in it, I don't trust scientists, regardless of their field. And finally, I don't trust religions, the people professing them and even the God they are suppose to represent. Basically, their is not much to be trusted in modern society.
Like the new focused format – it's working well. Also means we get more content and benefit from more of your research. Thanks Sabine!
Ignorance is straight and today is 1984.
You Morons ignore the 💉
Your definition of Chiropracty is almsot unique to Britain. While I agree that Chiropracty is Quackery, it probably does have the same benefit as a good massage
Always the same story: knowledge Vs greed. Look at global warming.
The truth is an absolute defense to libel but if you justify your name calling with facts it's still slander. Let reality speak for itself.
Of course, we live in an anti truth society, money is king, god help a scientist who upholds gender truths too, or disagrees with climate alarmists
I would like to point out that being a "Scientist" does not make you immune from coming to incorrect (or subjective) conclusions. Even if the data you have is impeccable. Doing it in the name of "science" does not make you invincible.
In Brazil psychologists can't publish research or criticism, neither opiniate on problems envolving clinical instruments.
When I saw all the obvious lies being spread by scientists on Covid, I lost a lot of respect for the profession. Truth was being suppressed by the government and media, and anyone that went against their false narrative was branded a traitor or a kook. As the truth comes out more and more, the media have ignored the lies they spread and the people they hurt. Even Google and YouTube were in on it.
Congratulations, you discovered the old fact that law and government are wishfull thinking and voodoo.
Yes & Add NUCLEAR LIES CARCER RATE It's A Sick World Corp. Gov. Greed & Control Law's? Like Fluoride ? In The Water By LAW ? Dead Food = Weak Minded People Are Ease To Control @ 38 CPM Nuclear End One Way Or The Other…Fake Money Made It SO
Lawyer TO Law Maker It's A Sick World Corp. Gov. Greed & Control Law's? Like Fluoride ? In The Water By LAW ? Dead Food = Weak Minded People Are Ease To Control @ 38 CPM Nuclear End One Way Or The Other…Fake Money Made It SO
The government has Lawyers and Judges too. The poor don't – other than those that are appointed for them… by the government.
Boo Hoo.
Didn’t expect to see the russian president’s real name in a scientific video 😂
You can be sued for all sorts of things, so asserting that A was sued conveys nothing unless you say for what he is being sued
Lol, so much for freedom of speech
Charlatans is pronounced with the "Sh" sound.
Hi Sabrine, interesting topic, and one I hold dear. Miss-information is everywhere these days and some scientists also suffer from it, we ordinary people are bombarded with the latest theories of enthusiatic scientists who make certain claims which we are told to be " almost certainly true " only to have their theory disproved a while later. There are far too many theories, is it bacause they just want to be famous for a short while, is it just good for their own ego ? We rarely ever hear from a scientist apologising for their failed reports. They just move on. N de Tyson is a typical example , he just makes videos these days about all the unproven junk he subscribes to, most of it so farfetched and unbelievable. its good fun to hear about this stuff, but dont try to make it fact when its not… YET.. hahah so many false claims these days, eg whiteners that is " scientifically " proven to clean your teeth 150% cleaner. wish we couls see the scientific reports… it certainly help with the reputation of scientists. I like your channel, you try to keep them honest. Should we sue them for these claims ? perhaps. Best wishes.
Chrome has the same tab features as Opera does. Edge, being a flavor of Chrome now, has them as well. Right click a tab and select "Add tab to group" and it creates tab groups.
I would love to know if people commenting here have any formal legal education. I studied Civil Engineering in the 1980s (I'm not a Civil Engineer) and our course included a module on law – tort, case law, burden of proof, Civil compared to criminal law etc. Did / do science students have an equivalent module?
If you find it surprising that publishing a paper about a commercial product and putting "charlatan" in the title results in legal problems then you probably need to look outside your specialism for some advice. Even asking another adult with a job outside academia might be enough.
Lol Sabine, give us more credit. We Remembered almost everything!
Dear Sabine,
the title of the video is "These scientist got sued for doing their job". The examples you provide have nothing to do with scientific issues.
So you state for example, that regarding cases #1 and #2 the plaintiff "…raised an issue not with the scientific case but with the language…".
So what is your point? You present cases which caused legal action not due to the science but to other issues (like deffamation).
Even scientist are not above the law and are part of society and the respective judicial system. This may lead to scientists being sued for whatever reason a plaintiff may deem judicable. Just like anyone else!
It sounds like you bit off more than you could chew and got lost in a field in which you do not hold any relevant expertise. Even worse, it appears that your video won't hold up against basic principles of logic: you try to make a point that scientist got sued for doing their job despite stating yourself that they were sued to issues which did not relate to science.
In addition you promote the Opera browser. How would you evaluate that it is a closed source browser and how would you rate the transparency of the use of the data collected from the users? How well does promoting this product suit your image?
You seem to have lost it in this video. Frankly, I'd rather have you spread your views on topics which are closer to your field of expertise.
„Brühhh im Glaaanze diiieses Glühückes, brüüühe, deutsches Vaaaterland!“
Sarah Connor
Well im sure everyone is still pretty mad about eco health alliance, nih, cdc, ….
This is what politicians and the loser legal system do when they look stupid. Over correct.
I trust science, not scientists. Scientists have proved that they create false data all the time. So much that the president of the University of Standford was caught in his false data paper that he was fired. Scientist have not spoken out about a large data fraud going on in academia that it shows they are complicit. Climate change is at the forefront. So much money is being poured into this corrupt research that most know it is corrupt and anticitizen. Scientists have been saying that science has proven evolution. The very hypothesis that has caused the children of the world to have an excuse to think their are no consequences for taking a life, including their own life. Yet, today we know through good science in cellular biology that the rdna could not have randomly been achieved. The mathematical odds prohibit this beyond genius life biological product. Yet children are taught that science proves their is no proof of an intelligent designer. So… Scientists prove the premise of the Bible of the Christians… they are part of the deceptive human condition. Are there good honest scientists? Yes but they don't want to look at the good data that proves there is a God. So they take bad scientific ideas and pass them along in faith.