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With Maro Itoje pondering his future at Saracens, our trio discuss the hot topic of the week. Should England rugby players be allowed to play abroad AND for their country?
This episode was recorded shortly before rumours of Northampton Captain Lewis Ludlam’s likely departure to France.
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32 Comments
Task: don’t repeat the same point over and over again for half an hour.
Haskell: Impossible.
Wonderfully informative session. Love it!
Isn’t the issue getting players released for training?
Maybe the England management team should be tasked with developing a system that suits the best performing English players and pick them, rather than picking the same old faces who are blocking up the pipeline and still being picked despite not having performed to the same level at their clubs.
For example, Mercer and Arundell should’ve been picked so many times.
The fact we’ve not seen Curry Symonds and Earl all on the pitch at the same time is an absolute crime.
Rugby players have a short career window, and if your national team coaches are just going to keep picking the old boys, why not go abroad, better that than waste your career tearing up the Prem as an underpaid player, and never getting picked for internationals.
People want to talk about NZ this and SA that, but over there they are totally ruthless, even with players with 50+ caps, if you play poorly and there’s someone else tearing it up, your out, simple as.
Over here we cling to the past too much.
I firmly believe there is also a massive disconnect between the new generation of players and the old boys that run the club and international games, values are not shared and they’ve little in common apart from a love of rugby. On top of that people at the top of rugby are not equipped in either expertise or education to be able to grow the game domestically or internationally – most of them are just figure heads tbh.
I live in France and I subscribed to Nord VPN so I could watch BBC iPlayer which is denied to me in France. All went well for a couple of days and then the Beeb must have caught up with me and my access was blocked. I got a bit of a smoke screen from Nord when I asked for my money back but I dug my heels in and they refunded me in full in line with their 30 day rule.
So if we are to ‘grow the game’ in this country as we often hear we need to do, how do we sell the game if the best England players are not in show and a club continues to lose its best players abroad? It’s not all about England. Why should club academies invest in young players only to lose them abroad? It could kill the club game here.
There will not be a mass exodus of English players, for the simple fact that they are not that good. The premiership is very average standard.
Its all very well score loads of points in games, but the defensive side of the game suffers somewhat.
Totally agree with hask and tins, players get to play at a higher rate standard, takes a financial load off the prem and allows new talent to emerge and allows players to provide the best for their families.
How about what they're actually achieving for England, the very thing they stay at home for? Looks like hard work.
Loving the vienneta and after eight chat 🤣👌🏼
Not sure about big club fans not caring about England though…
Went to Franklin gardens for my first game, it was like a fashion show at great British bakery off. More of status thing than actually wanting to watch the quality of play. Sat next to opposing fans & spent most the game listening to them talking about everything but the game. A few songs were sang when it went quiet or when they scored. If there’s a next time I need to wear brown shoes, blue jeans, Gillet, or shirt with a blazer with a scarf & a hat from Oliver Twist.
Haskell and Tindall every week:
“It’s all about the players, the stars, kids grow up wanting to be Mario Itoje not wanting to be a saracens player. To grow the game we have to make it about the individuals”
Also Haskell and Tindall this week
“Some of the biggest names in the game leaving to go abroad won’t have any impact on the draw of clubs, the tickets they sell, shirt sales, the commercial value of the league”
I’m actually in favour of players going abroad on balance, but at least accept or be willing to discuss the adverse side effects. AP tried to set that line of conversation up twice and it was arrogantly dismissed.
“Fans will turn up and support their team regardless” is such an arrogant outdated attitude. Sure, some hard core fans will, but as you rightly point out week after week, young fans won’t, and crucially new fans won’t.
I like the pod but just wish it sometimes encouraged a bit more thoughtful debate. Only seems to happen when B Kayser or S Horgan make an appearance.
Hask is spot on with this subject.
The one glaring thing everyone’s missing is the national depth it creates for a country like South Africa having such a big pool of professional players to pick from, while doing exactly the opposite for countries like France where these players end up playing. They’re all coached at a very high level and are all eligible for selection.
Of all the players from 2003, Tindal seems to be the one who hasn't moved on. Him and clive the rest have parked rugby-union or are full on onto it coaching.
How does hask make every point about him!!! he is so boring, week in week out!! bring back shane horgan!! I used like hask but he's tuning me out now …only watching from now on when he's not on! its just not entertaining anymore with him on 🤷♂
Haskell has it right. Rugby doesn't have stars
If you export your best players then attendance will drop more who is going to come out for two teams that don have star power?
Maro and Ellis Genge to NSW Waratahs! Before Lions .? Teach us Aussies a bit of tight work ! Learn how to pass / run! NRL style! #James Graham! I’m sure Angus, Ned, Langi and co ,would improve, as,they would,! Courtney too!
Limit international players in the Premiership which will increase the English talent developed, and increase the salaries of the top English players. And let players go wherever they want to play, just pick the best players wherever they are playing.
A more relaxed thrush this week as he could talk about himself unfortunately knowledge that is over ten year old. The next Clive Woodwood
Did Farrell jump before pushed?? I hear RFU CEO talked to Borthwick post World Cup about Farrell Borthwick went to speak to Farrell and the compromise was what we have read. The RFU committee are very concerned about lack of take up on ticket sales and TV rights money being reduced
If there’s to be a provision to play outside of England and still for England, then the players can’t expect to collect all / any of the usual 22k match fees. Players and ex-players want it all – which is understandable, but biased (naturally) and emotional. No one is stopping anyone from playing anywhere – but the RFU have every right to say ‘if you want to play for us and take our money then do X’. And atm if the current setup or similar weren’t in place, the Prem would be stripped. England starters get 200+k p.a. from England + image boost etc., if you can get more than that +your club money in France then great! Your choice
I'd love you guys to dedicate a show to comparing the Prem, Top14 and URC to review where we can all improve together
From a South African perspective, I can only say that it definitely works for us, as every weekend we have eligible players playing all over the world. If we were only to pick from players in our local league, the pool would be a lot smaller, and the development of new talent would be seriously hampered.
The idea that the top 14 (was it 16?) Was a higher quality league than the Prem back then is ridiculous. Slow pace with huge breaks in play was the norm. It was dominated by 4 teams who walked over the rest
South Africa has unique circumstances . The currency is monopoly money Rugby is a proffession players have limited trading life The exodus created a vacume for new and exciting talent to emerge which lead to the depth of the current 4xRWC champions . Has revenue dropped from gate money For sure esp in the early stages of the rugby tournaments but (and i havent got the figures ) i think the GAME has never been stronger here I am not sure of the financial health of the clubs (we have fewer) but i think long term view its important to create players whose status transend boarders
Masexodus
A mon avis, je suis d’accord ❤
Foreign players can get better coming here as well. Louis Picamoles & Cobus Reinach at Northampton are two who certainly did.
One of the risks of 10 Prem clubs and having no relegation and less money is that the standards drop & we can't afford or attract those sort of players to set them.
great pod boys x
My god, you indifferent English people are the problem with English rugby. Get your ground roots sorted, give the clubs enough dollars to bring on said good players. English posh mindset won’t work boys.
Maybe it’s the way England play that puts fans off buying tickets and in turn drives players abroad for better rugby and more money, their World Cup games were shit to watch 🤷♂️
What has happened to Hask. He's talking and making great sense.